S1E6: “Sex, Lies, and Ed’s Tapes” with Darren Burrows

Summary

Northern Disclosure: Episode 1.6 - “Sex, Lies, and Ed’s Tapes” with Darren Burrows

Release Date: June 24, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 1.6 of Northern Disclosure, co-hosts Rob Morrow and Jeanine Turner delve into the intricacies of the Northern Exposure episode titled “Sex, Lies, and Ed’s Tapes.” Joined by special guest Darren Burrows, the trio navigates through memorable moments, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and the enduring charm that made the series a beloved classic.

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Episode Overview

Jeanine Turner kicks off the discussion by expressing her delight in revisiting the episode:

“Sex, Lies and Ed's Tapes.” It is a wonderful episode. And we have a special guest... Darren Burrows. (00:47)

Rob Morrow highlights the episode's significance:

“It's a great episode.” (00:47)

The hosts emphasize the episode's blend of humor, innocence, and creative storytelling that encapsulates the essence of Northern Exposure.

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Favorite Lines and Scenes

Jeanine shares her favorite lines and scenes, praising Darren's performance and the episode's writing:

“Shelly's line, 'My wife, your baby. The world's going to hell in a hand basket,' was really funny.” (04:16)

She also mentions memorable interactions between characters, such as Maggie’s defensiveness and Shelly’s straightforwardness:

“Maggie says to Rick, 'Maybe I'm gonna die. You're not that special,' which was revealing and poignant.” (05:09)

Rob adds his appreciation for the simplicity and honesty in John Cullum's portrayal:

“John Cullum... was superb. His simplicity allowed you to connect deeply with his character.” (04:25)

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Guest Introduction: Darren Burrows

The episode warmly welcomes Darren Burrows, commending his chemistry with the hosts:

“Darren, everyone. Woo. Welcome, Darren.” (12:07)

Darren expresses his enthusiasm:

“You guys really work well together. I can see why they cast you.” (13:02)

He also highlights his passion outside acting, particularly his work in jewelry making:

“I'm an incredible jeweler. I make beautiful jewelry.” (13:36)

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Acting and Character Development

Darren delves into his approach to portraying Ed, emphasizing the character's innocence and intelligence:

“Ed has a 146 IQ. He looks at everything differently.” (26:42)

He discusses the challenges of delivering lines authentically, especially when facing ADR (Additional Dialogue Recording):

“It was very hard to recreate that... it's about the nuances in your voice.” (36:56)

Jeanine relates her own experiences as an actress dealing with technical jargon in medical dramas, fostering a mutual appreciation for authentic performances.

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Production Challenges: ADR and Looping

The hosts and Darren explore the frustrations of post-production changes:

“They would cut off my face and re-record lines happily.” (33:16)

Rob explains the ADR process:

“ADR, also known as looping, is something you do after you've shot a scene... long hours in the room.” (34:11)

Darren shares his struggles with the lack of immediate feedback during ADR sessions:

“There was no one to talk to... I didn’t understand what I was doing.” (37:07)

Jeanine recounts the challenges of adjusting performances months later in a dry studio setting:

“It's very hard to get those little idiosyncrasies of your voice.” (36:56)

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Directing and Blocking

The conversation shifts to the collaborative nature of directing Northern Exposure. Jeanine appreciates the organic movement in scenes:

“There was movement... It was so real.” (47:40)

Rob elaborates on the complexities of blocking while performing actions like cooking:

“It was hard to learn that blocking while delivering lines and cooking food.” (48:32)

Darren adds insights into maintaining the show's shooting style amidst different directors:

“The show was set to maintain a consistent shooting style and aesthetics.” (50:07)

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Camera Work and Aesthetics

Jeanine contrasts the show's organic camera movements with modern techniques:

“The camera work didn't feel distracting. It was about the actors, not the camera.” (53:26)

Darren discusses the use of dolly tracks to maintain focus while moving:

“We had 200ft of dolly track in Roslyn... the camera was moving, but I stayed in focus.” (54:01)

Rob praises the classic aesthetic and the consistent use of techniques like dolly shots:

“The dolly is a classic aesthetic for the show.” (54:24)

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Wardrobe and Costume Design

The hosts reflect on the distinctive wardrobe choices that contributed to the show's timeless feel:

“The wardrobe doesn't look dated. Jeans and flannel shirts are still being worn.” (61:44)

Jeanine appreciates the authenticity in costume design, mentioning Kathleen Bentley's meticulous work:

“Kathleen Bentley designed the little earrings that corresponded with every scene.” (63:26)

Darren humorously remarks on the unique outfits the cast wore:

“The high-waisted pants and whole outfits just jumped out at me.” (63:41)

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Reflections and Memories

Darren fondly recalls the camaraderie and passion behind the scenes:

“We all loved making the show. It comes across that it's a caring show.” (57:34)

Jeanine reminisces about the original excitement fans felt each week:

“People were all abuzz about what happened last week and what would happen next.” (59:50)

Rob emphasizes the show's enduring impact and the deep connections among the cast:

“It's such a nice trip down memory lane, chatting with Darren.” (60:42)

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Closing Remarks

As the episode winds down, the hosts express their gratitude to Darren Burrows for his contributions and heartfelt reflections. They tease upcoming episodes and encourage listeners to engage with the Northern Disclosure community.

“Next week, we'll be back with hopefully John Cullum.” (65:02)

Jeanine concludes with a heartfelt sentiment:

“Watching the show again has become the joy of my life.” (65:28)

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Conclusion

“Sex, Lies, and Ed’s Tapes” serves as a compelling exploration of Northern Exposure’s charm, enriched by Darren Burrows’ insightful anecdotes and reflections. Through discussions on character development, production challenges, and the collaborative spirit of the show, hosts Rob Morrow and Jeanine Turner, alongside Darren, celebrate the enduring legacy of this beloved series.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jeanine Turner (00:47): “This episode is number six, and it's called Sex, Lies and Ed's Tapes. It's a great episode.”

• Rob Morrow (04:25): “John Cullum... was superb. His simplicity allowed you to connect deeply with his character.”

• Darren Burrows (26:42): “Ed has a 146 IQ. He looks at everything differently.”

• Rob Morrow (34:11): “ADR, also known as looping, is something you do after you've shot a scene... long hours in the room.”

• Jeanine Turner (53:26): “The camera work didn't feel distracting. It was about the actors, not the camera.”

• Darren Burrows (57:34): “We all loved making the show. It comes across that it's a caring show.”

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Produced by Evergreen Podcasts and Executive Produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

Transcript

[Darren Burrows]

Foreign.

[Jeanine Turner]

Hello there. I am Jeanine Turner and welcome to Northern Disclosure, where Rob Morrow and I co host the re Watch podcast of 110 episodes of Northern Exposure. And I don't know, I'm having a blast. So thanks. Cause we watched them and so now we're on episode. Is this six, seven? What is it, Rob? Hello, Rob.

[Rob Morrow]

Hello there, Jeanine. I'm so glad to see you again. Looking beautiful with yet another hair color.

[Jeanine Turner]

Me too. I don't know.

[Rob Morrow]

I think you're running out of options. Next week I expect you to be totally black hair.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay. But also I'm thinking, how do I come up with 110 different looks?

[Rob Morrow]

I know that's gonna be tough. But this episode is number six, and it's called Sex, Lies and Ed's Tapes. It's a great episode.

[Jeanine Turner]

It is a great episode. It is a wonderful episode. And we have a special guest. Everyone, drum roll please. We have Darren Burrows and he's going to be popping in here in about seven or so, eight or so minutes. But this is where Rob and I have our little moment to talk about the episode. And Rob, you're looking. You're looking wonderful and young as always.

[Rob Morrow]

Thank you.

[Jeanine Turner]

And that's one of the things when I was watching this show, you know, Jim Heymon, this was probably my favorite lighting show. I thought the. And finally I got some light on my face. You know, I think around this episode, Jim realized I might be important to the ep, to the series.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, I think everyone knew that from the get go.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't know. But I finally have some light on my face. But I love the lighting at the end with Marilyn. And the lighting was really wonderful. But one of the things that strikes me, Rob, is how young we all looked. So innocence. And there's an innocence to the show, don't you think? Everyone was just so innocent in this show. And I have my little list, which I do want to run down very quickly, of favorite lines, but does innocence struck me and how young we all looked?

[Rob Morrow]

Absolutely. It's amazing, you know, and it's amazing, you know, and it'll be interesting to speak to Darren about this because I remember those early first. That first season when we were all kind of hanging out together and we didn't know, you know, we weren't famous, we weren't rich, you know, we were just there doing what we loved in this place, in this beautiful place. And I see that, you know, sometimes when I'm watching the show like this, when we was watching Sex Lies, Ned's tape Last night, you know, I was just. I. I end up thinking about what was going on when we were making it. Not so much the story, but. Oh, yeah, I remember so and so bought a car, so. And so. Had a baby or whatever. So.

[Jeanine Turner]

As opposed to when you and I used to watch it, you and I were always. Man, I hate the way they cut it off my face at that pivotal moment.

[Rob Morrow]

Right, right.

[Jeanine Turner]

I saw dailies, and I had such better work, and they didn't choose any of it. You know, that's how we look at it in the beginning.

[Rob Morrow]

It's true. Right. But. But now it's not. What's nice now is having the perspective and. And seeing what was without, you know, we having the distance somehow gets the ego out of it and. And lets us just appreciate it, you know, I know I'm. I'm enjoying watching these episodes, you know.

[Jeanine Turner]

Right back at you. Because, you know, I. I think life gets. When you hit your 60s, at least for me, sometimes. My mother's living with me, and God bless her. And, you know, a lot of. A lot of things in life sort of weigh when I watch this show. I just feel happy for that hour, and I just feel happy, and I'm smiling and I don't even have to be on screen. I'm enjoying everybody else's storylines, the work that everybody else is doing, the brilliance of the writing, and it really is a place where you can go and just feel happy. Okay, here are my few notes. All right. You with me, Rob?

[Rob Morrow]

I'm with you, Jeanine.

[Jeanine Turner]

I do this every episode. I think this will be like our regular gig. Here's some of my favorite lines. First of all, I thought, Darren is always amazing. And we'll talk to Darren. Darren. This was Darren's. Eds, you know, establishment of his. Of his. Woody Allen, which I love. And we'll talk to him about that. John Cullum, I thought, was also superb in this episode. We really got to see his simplicity. But when what's.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, that's a good way to put it, his simplicity. He was very. He had a great simplicity. Not it wasn't simple, but it was. The simplicity of it allowed you in. Right.

[Jeanine Turner]

The honesty of it. He was just simple and honest. And. What's the actor's name? Rob, the play does.

[Rob Morrow]

Brandon Douglas.

[Jeanine Turner]

Brandon Douglas. I wonder what he's been doing. He was also really good. So here's some of my favorite lines. Brandon Douglas, who's Shelly's. He comes into town, ends up he's Shelly's husband, and nobody Knows about it. And he says, my wife, your baby. And he says, world's going to hell in a hand basket. I thought that was really funny. I also thought it was funny when this young 20 year old kid said, I'm getting a gut, you know, I need light beer. Rick and his tumor. And how Maggie, this defensiveness that she thought she was killing another boyfriend. That was a very humorous song and it was so.

[Rob Morrow]

What I loved about your work there, Janine, was, you know, it was. You could really see the. That you were defensive. Clearly you're defensive because you're concerned, like maybe there the curse is real and. But what. What was beautiful about it was how hurt you are underneath that you're just this little girl who's in. Who's hurt with what if I actually do have a curse, you know, and. And it's so clear. It's so it. Because I can just see that pain in that, in that. In your face. It was beautifully played.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, thank you, Rob. Because you know how every episode, every Rewatch podcast, I talk about how wonderful your work is. Oh, my God. And we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Because your Dustin Hoffman impersonation was wonderful. But thank you for that. That was my method acting coming into play. It was my, you know, sensory multi layered. I worked at that. I really worked hard on that. But I love Maggie's line when she says to Rick, heels, maybe I'm gonna die. And she looks at him, she goes, you're not that special.

[Rob Morrow]

I wrote that one.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay, the end. Okay, we'll get to this with.

[Rob Morrow]

But what's revealing about that line, though, is like, it's like, okay, here she, you know, that's what show. And. And that's where her and Fleischman are so similar. It's like just when they have something, what they want, like, it's all okay. They undercut it, you know, because it was so mean. It's like, you're not that special. It's like.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, but that's life, isn't it? We get there and then we pull the rug out sometimes. All played with sincerity. We'll talk more about. I want to get through my list and not take a lot of time. Indiana Jones, that whole Indiana Jones thing.

[Rob Morrow]

So cool.

[Jeanine Turner]

And the fact that they used Sex Lies, you know, Ed's imagination to get there was very clever in the writing, I thought.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, we should also say that the title Sex Lies in Ed's tape comes from Steven Soderbergh's movie Sex Lies and Videotape which had just come out a year or so before or that year, and was a big phenomenon in the indie film movement. And so the thing about Northern, especially in this episode, is the cultural references from sex, lies and videotape to Raiders in the Lost Ark to Midnight Cowboy. It's fascinating how they were able to get a lot of references, cultural references in. We talked about Twin Peaks last week.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I texted Josh Brand this morning just how the way they interwove the brilliance of all these things and used Ed to bring in all these things. And. And by the way, I have a very interesting story about John Schlesinger, who directed Midnight Cowboy. There was a quote that I'd read in Variety, Hollywood Reporter, I don't know where. And it's. It said, how do. You asked him, how do you deal with Hollywood? And he said, you have to remain tremendously strong about what you know you can do and never take no for an answer. And I cut that out and I put it in my billfold and I carried it with me when I was a struggling actress for years. And do you know, recently I. I found. Yeah, I found it. So thank you, John Schlesinger, for that. Quite.

[Rob Morrow]

I got to hang out with him one night and had such a great. He was such a fascinating. I mean, he was so inspirational to me as a filmmaker. But spending time with him and hearing him talk about, you know, basically talking about how he was able to withstand the slings and arrows of Hollywood was a great lesson I'll share with you sometime off the air.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I think everyone would love to hear that. But, Rob, your Dustin Hoffman impersonation was brilliant.

[Rob Morrow]

Thanks.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, that was really good. And instead of I'm walking here, I'm walking here. What was it?

[Rob Morrow]

So we should say that Ed is having writer's block in this episode, and it's the main story of the episode, I think. And so he starts day. So I tell him he should write what he knows, you know, and he starts daydreaming about what he knows. And he's picturing Joel Fleischman and Chris Stevens walking down the street. And all of his sudden, his mind takes him to this fantasy of Midnight Cowboy. And it was as if we. And so John and I Corbett is as Joe Buck, the Jon Voight part, and me as Dustin Hoffman, you know, inhabit that. Those parts. But it's on the street of Sicily. But we're doing the dialogue from a famous scene where Dustin says, I'm walking here, I'm walking here.

[Jeanine Turner]

But you said something different. You didn't say walk.

[Rob Morrow]

I'm talking here. I'm talking here.

[Jeanine Turner]

And weren't the set amazing? The intricacy of even the earlier one with Indiana Jones. I thought the sets were amazing.

[Rob Morrow]

So good. Woody Crocker, once again, you can't. We can't say his singers praises enough. He was the production designer and just always. And he had to do it on a shoestring budget, especially in the beginning and do it fast. I mean, we were doing. We were doing these. Pumping them out every seven days.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, and to think that these. This was just the sixth episode and it was this creative. Okay, I just want to go through a few of these. And I want. We want. We should bring Baron in. Darren. Not Darren. Not Baron. Baron. Darren. All right. So anyway, the barbershop scene, when you come in, you come in and try to talk to me in the barbershop, and I'm all defensive, and you talk about Dorothy Hamill and I. Another great line. I'm. I'm. Please. It's something about your fantasy. Pleasant, if unfulfilled fantasy. I thought that was really funny. The cricket in Holling's neck when he got that crick in Holly. When he got the crick in his neck at the bar, I thought that was hysterical. When I rewatched it, I couldn't quit laughing the way he did that. I thought that was hilarious. And then he had Holly and had a great line. They're dancing cheek to cheek as we speak. And then he goes to visit Shelly, and Shelly says, were you spying on us? When they're dancing right in front of him, you know, like right in front of him in his bar. And she says, were you spying on us? And very simply, and I think this is what's interesting, the way John Cullum delivered it. He wasn't sarcastic. She goes. Because she was right there in front of his bar. He's. And she says, were you spying on us? And he says, in my bar? No. But he didn't say it sarcastically. He just delivered it beautifully.

[Rob Morrow]

No sweet quality about him. Always.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, okay, but. Okay, two more quick lines. I won't do them all. Well, the music was pretty great, but you might be dying, but you're gone. Maggie says to Rick at the end, that was another great line. And I love Shelly's line to Holling, you flipped your last flop on me, Holly, which I thought was really good. I'm. And she. And she says at the end, which I cried. Half your age. He may be half your age, but he's half the man you are. I thought that was really beautiful. Anyway, the lighting was great and the ending with Marilyn was great and the Woody Allen was great. So there you go. Those are my little notes.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, let's, without further ado, get young Darren Burrows in here.

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm so excited, Darren. I was thinking about Darren this morning, how his character was the innocence and I don't think he ever had. His character ever had a girlfriend. So we're going to talk about this and we're bringing in the exceptional, the amazing, the so oh, so talented, and also a beautiful heart. Darren Burrows, everybody. Woo. Welcome, Darren.

[Darren Burrows]

It's all downhill from that introduction.

[Rob Morrow]

How you doing, Darren?

[Darren Burrows]

I was just gonna say, sitting here listening to you two before I came on, boy, you guys really work well together. I can see why they cast you, but go figure. You're really good in the show, which I just. I just watched this morning, so I'm fresh off that. But. And then to see two now, it's. It's like. It's like a fine wine. It's the same, but it's matured. It's really. It's really great to see the back and forth and the.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, thanks.

[Darren Burrows]

The tennis there. Yeah, you guys are both terrific.

[Rob Morrow]

I got to spend some time with Darren a couple months ago in Monaco with Cynthia. We were at what was a Comic Con thing where we were meeting fans and signing autographs. And it was so nice. Cause I hadn't seen Darren in ages. And I was so happy to see the life you've created. You know, you've really created a really wonderful life. And you just seem like you're in a great place. And I just want to say before we get launched into the show, you know, Darren is an incredible jeweler. He makes beautiful jewelry.

[Jeanine Turner]

I didn't know that.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, you gotta go to his site. He actually had a post today of a ring that he made.

[Jeanine Turner]

No way. What's the site? Go to his Instagram right now.

[Rob Morrow]

Go to his Instagram page. But it is beautiful. And he's such an artist and craftsman and all the pieces are really distinct and unique. So anyone looking for gifts, check out his stuff. Cause it's really beautiful.

[Jeanine Turner]

I know Darren. I'll give you a call, create some things with you for. Are you real Darren Burrows?

[Darren Burrows]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Is that you?

[Darren Burrows]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay. I can't. Oh, my gosh. You're making jewelry. I didn't know that.

[Darren Burrows]

Oh, yeah, that's.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, it's beautiful. Look at that.

[Darren Burrows]

Well, you know, Rob's got his music. We all have to do different Things, I think. You know, it's funny, I think Corbett said it once, great one time, that, you know, that's the thing about being an actor is it's not like a musician or anything else. You don't get together with your friends and like, hey, let's run this scene. You know, let's do a jam at least. Right. It's not like musicians or other art where you. And it takes, as you both know, so well, less now, but so many people to make a production that it's just so hard to have an outlet.

[Rob Morrow]

How did you start making jewelry?

[Darren Burrows]

Actually, for my birthday, quite a few years ago, maybe 10 years ago, Melinda got me an engraving class because I've always been into motorcycles and stuff. And she thought I'd have fun maybe, you know, taking the class and engraving motorcycle parts or something like that. And I just. I really. I really enjoyed it. And I started doing knives and guns and got into fine jewelry and just as kind of. I guess it's kind of addictive. I just really fell hard for it. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay. Well, every Christmas present I'm doing from now on is going to be from you.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff. You'll find a lot of good stuff. Plus, you get the Northern Exposure discount. I think we get the Northern Exposure discount.

[Jeanine Turner]

Maybe not. Well, Darren, talk to us about. And I relate to being creative. You know, I think we've all done our thing. I launched a foundation. I've written five books, and I've, you know, written a Broadway musical. And it's. Well, you just. You just. I think as creative people, we just have to keep it going. And you and I, you know, are kind of out on our ranches and removed ourselves from Hollywood and raised our. You raised your kids. You four. And I raised my daughter. And so I had to just keep myself busy. You know, I directed a little short film and things of that nature. But acting is just part of who we are. And I think that's what's interesting. Rob, you've got your band, and Rob did a intro. What do you call it? A testimony. What do you call it? For my book, you know, my poetry.

[Rob Morrow]

A blurb.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, you could relate to my poetry. Cause. Do you write your own songs, Rob?

[Rob Morrow]

I do write my own songs. And, you know, speaking to what you guys are saying, it's like I have this innate need to create. I just have to do it. And so if I'm not getting hired or I have to negotiate or beg for a part or get a part or produce, you Know, I produce a lot, and so if I'm not doing that, I have to do something. So pretty much every day, I'm either doing music or I'm writing. I'm really into writing these days because I can do it myself. And I think, to your point, and Darren's point is, like. And Corbett's point is, we've gotta. We've got to. This is what we do. So one way or another, if it's not coming from the outside, it's gotta come from the inside.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. Amen to that. And so. Okay. I can't wait to order the jewelry. And there's something about living in the country, too. You know, just going. Every time I walk outside, it grounds me. I had Easter with my neighbor, my ranch neighbor and her family. And he says, I walk out every day and put my feet in the earth, you know, to ground myself. And I thought, well, you know, that's kind of what I do. Walking outside and seeing the birds and the trees and all that. And we need to move on to the show. But, Darren, do you relate to that? Cause you live on a ranch, don't you?

[Darren Burrows]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We. Melinda and I, raised registered Red Dexter cattle, and we've got some ducks and chickens. And usually I got a couple pigs out back for bacon seeds. And, boy, we got some guineas. Five cats, five dogs. You know, I got a whole fort of God's grace.

[Rob Morrow]

And where are you? Are you. You're in Missouri?

[Darren Burrows]

Yeah. In the Ozarks? Yeah, in Missouri.

[Jeanine Turner]

Beautiful. Okay, well, let's talk about the show, Darren. What we love to ask everybody, we kind of have this kind of flow, is tell us about your start in the show. And then we also want to talk about the show. And I just thought right out of the gate, you were brilliant. The way that scene in the car where that music's playing and you pick up Fleischmann and you leave him there. You know, you leave him in the middle of nowhere. And you had that line about St. Elsewhere and all. You were just. And I remember the reading with you, too. And so we've talked about that. But talk about your. Where were you as an actor? Where were you living? Because we were Rob and I and John. Who else? We were. Some of us were in New York. Rob and I were in New York for sure. Where were you living? And tell us about your genesis as an actor.

[Darren Burrows]

I was in Los Angeles, and I was actually. I was working a lot back then. I'd done Casualties of War with Brian De Palma and just finished doing Crybaby with, with John Waters and of course, Johnny Depp and, oh, reoccurring TV series and different films. So I was working, I was, you know, there's ups and downs and I was at the up. I was in an up moment at that point and when I got cast for this part.

[Rob Morrow]

And your f, Your father was an actor.

[Darren Burrows]

That's right. Yeah, my father was an actor. And so, yeah, that's kind of an interesting thing is, you know, the way life works is I never really thought about being an actor. I came out to meet my father because I'd never known him growing up and, and found him in la. And he's one of these people who wanted to be an actor since his third grade play. And he was, he was being an actor and I really had nothing to talk to him about after we met. And so I took acting classes so that I would have a, something to relate to him about. And, and so, yeah, just kind of amazing slipped into it. And a funny story when we were on the, and so this, you know, then when the show got so hot and we all started getting famous and this and that, I had a lot of questioning because I never, that was never really the, I don't think that was ever really the goal for me. And that question, like, where was I and what was I doing and what was happening? And I used to hang out with the Teamsters out by our trailers and stuff, and I was talking to one of them and I, and I said to him, and I kind of said the short thing. I just said, you know, I never really wanted to be an actor. I just kind of ended up that way. And he said, oh, yeah, that's how I became a truck driver. And I thought, yeah, it's really as simple as that, that we all make decisions and they lead to certain points, and here we are. So, yeah, that's how I ended up on the show.

[Rob Morrow]

What was the audition process like for getting the show? Did you like the script? Did you want it? Did you care? Or was it just another audition and you were. Whatever happened?

[Darren Burrows]

Oh, no, I, I, I really like the script. I really like the pilot and the character. And I came in and read for Megan Brennan, and I had a lot of meetings, I think.

[Rob Morrow]

Then she, she, she was the casting director at Universal, who ultimately, yeah, she signed off on all of us being cast. Yeah.

[Darren Burrows]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

Thank you, Megan.

[Darren Burrows]

I came in and read for her and then I, she brought me back for the casting department at Universal, and I can't remember, but I had like three or four meetings before I finally went to cbs. And then we were all there with one other alternative person for each part.

[Jeanine Turner]

How old were you, Darren?

[Darren Burrows]

23, I think. 23 or 24.

[Rob Morrow]

Do you remember the actor who was up for it with you? No, because Corbett remembers him. It's funny, really.

[Darren Burrows]

Well, they were running around together up and down the fire escapes, right? In and out, emergency things. And I just thought, what a couple nut balls that, you know, I'm trying. I was trying to be focused, to be there for. And they. They were running around like crazy. And so, yeah, I do remember that. But no, who's they?

[Jeanine Turner]

Who's they?

[Rob Morrow]

John and from White Lotus.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, okay, so let's talk about your character a little bit. The innocence and the way you would walk into rooms without knocking. And, you know, and Fleischman was always like, you know, knock, or so just like Marilyn was always saying, you have a call in line one. And, you know, Fleischmann would always say, I only have one line.

[Darren Burrows]

You know, that kind of became a running thing. I don't know at what point it was in that particular episode, but that was so funny that even though I knew it was coming, I still literally laughed. Laughed. Lol. I laughed out loud, as the people say today.

[Jeanine Turner]

Lol. You laughed out loud?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. It became a running gag. It was. It had already been established in. In an earlier episode, but it was it. They. They milked that for a long time. Every time she delivered it fresh, every.

[Darren Burrows]

That was very funny.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, talk about your character and your approach to your character. And. And even this episode, I think this episode, Sex, Lies and Ed's tape, really established, you know, this kind of artistic side of this is what I. I've talked about it a lot. I'm gonna talk about again. It was the dichotomy, the yin and yang, the complexity to every character. And here you were, this simple young kid, so to speak, right in. In Sicily, Alaska. But you had all this knowledge about Woody Allen and you knew all of his movies, but you didn't know. What was it? Crime and Punishment, I guess. Right? Or whatever it was. But.

[Rob Morrow]

But talking about Crimes and Misdemeanors.

[Jeanine Turner]

Crimes and news based off probably Crimes and Misdemeanors by Dostoevsky. But. But you. You.

[Rob Morrow]

Based on Crimes and Punishment by Dostoevsky.

[Darren Burrows]

What?

[Jeanine Turner]

I say crimes, you just flip that.

[Rob Morrow]

You flip them around. But anyway, the point is clear. Well, crimes and Misdemeanors may have been based on Crimes and Punishment by Dostoevsky.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, right. Crimes and Punishment that by The Way is my all time favorite book. Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky. I love that book. I have it. I have a hardback audition dated from like the 1800s. I love it.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, my God. Amazing.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, it really cool. But Darren, your. Your. Your character was so innocent. Did you ever. Did Ed ever have a girlfriend?

[Darren Burrows]

I think he did a couple times, but that was like, yeah, a big deal and didn't work out or something.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't even really remember that. Do you remember?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, he did. He. Absolutely. In the later seasons he had even. I mean, in the sixth season, he definitely did. And there were, you know, there were occasional dates, but I think Darren. I remember. First of all, Darren and I started hanging out right away. We would go downtown Pioneer Square and roam around and we were. I felt kind of protective of him, even though I was only a minute older than him, I think. But somehow I just. We just. We just bonded right away and. But I remember you struggling. I remember talking to you about. You weren't you. You hadn't quite in your mind. I mean, I agree with Jeanine. From the get go, it was clear who Ed was and what you were doing, but I. In your mind, you. You hadn't quite found the character. It took you a little while to find Ed. Is that true or am I misremembering?

[Darren Burrows]

I think the pilot was hard for me to get through because Josh Brand had specific ideas about probably all the characters, but my character, that, that I don't know if I was. I don't know. You know, I didn't meet him till the end of the casting process and we had not really spoken until we showed up to shoot. And so I think that might have. Yeah, I mean, there may have been some adjustment, but I think that whatever that was in the way or that may have been in the way evaporated. And.

[Jeanine Turner]

What kind of notes did he give you? Because I know that my notes were. My notes were things like don't smile. You know what I mean? They were like, your chemistry with Rob is already there. Don't play it. It's a comedy. Write it down. I mean, I think those were kind of the three messages because I'm much more effusive, you know, vivacious, I think, than Maggie is. What were the notes that they gave you for the character when they were creating the character? What kind of notes did Josh give you? I'm really interested about that.

[Rob Morrow]

That.

[Darren Burrows]

Yeah, he really helped me find the character in that. He said, you know, it's not written anywhere, but I wrote Ed, and I'm going to tell you the way I want this played is Ed has 146 IQ. He's a genius. And he may not know it and he may not have the education, But Ed has 146 IQ and he looks at everything differently. So whatever that means to you, he said, take that and, and, and go with that. And so I think I did. I think I did just start looking at every scene and the characters and the things going on around me as Ed looking at them as a brand new fresh thing without any kind of preconceived notions or ideas about what they meant. You know, like to oversimplify what it means to hit your thumb with a hammer. Just to hit your thumb with a hammer and feel that. And I think I tried to approach Ed in that way of innocence, of experiencing everything for the first time without a judgment on it.

[Rob Morrow]

And that speaks to something. Jeanine was brought up a couple episodes ago, I think, when we had John Corbett on who's had great things to say about you. But there was a moment where you're filming. What was it, Janine? He was filming Barry. A film crew showed up and you kind of glommed onto them and you were trying to find out how they did what they did. And by the end, the episode you were shooting, you had the camera on your shoulder and you're supposed to be interviewing Barry Maurice. And he's talking about something and he's just kind of long winded, spewing one of his monologues. And the camera, as you. Your point of view, the camera just drifts off and starts shooting like the bird that. The taxidermy bird that's on the wall and the jukebox. And it's like you're not even man. Which speaks to the genius. It's like he wasn't interested in what was obvious. It was always kind of looking in some different way.

[Darren Burrows]

Yeah, I remember. I remember that. And of course, the funny thing is, of course, I think that was probably Jim Heyman shooting my camera drifting off like that.

[Rob Morrow]

But it was in the writing, like what you're saying, because Josh obviously. Right, yeah.

[Darren Burrows]

No, but I mean, like, it's just interesting. Like, I was struck, you know, I haven't seen this episode in so long that when I was watching it, you know, there's always. Ed has all these great imaginations like you touched on earlier with the Indiana Jones and, and the Midnight Cowboy bit, which is terrific. But Ed, I'm not really doing anything. It's through my eyes. It's in my head. So it's like a pov. It's like the amount of time I'm not, you know, you see me drift off in that scene and then the rest of it's actually Ewan Corbett doing the whole scene and somehow it's tied back to me, but it's not really me in the scene. And so, so much of. Of Ed was like that. You know, I think the best part of playing Ed was somehow I was the punchline. My dialogue was the punchline. Like you would have. I felt bad for you. You would have. Well, not bad for you, but just like an appreciation for the amount of work you had to put in with the amount of dialogue that you have to memorize and. And technical terms and scientific terms and, you know, concepts, understanding these medical concepts and everything like that. That. And then I would have the one liner punchline and so.

[Rob Morrow]

Right.

[Darren Burrows]

So easy to be. It was so easy to be at. On that level because you and. And the rest of the cast always. Whoever I was doing the scene with always set me up so beautifully that. Yeah, there's certain. A certain guilty pleasure in that.

[Rob Morrow]

I was jealous of it. I remember. And I'd have to go home and learn those lines and then you'd have a couple great killers and that would be the fun. That's be the part people would remember.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. You know, Rob, I don't know if. Robin, dear, I don't know if you know this, but I ended up playing a doctor on television myself.

[Rob Morrow]

I do know this time. Medicine.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And oh, my God, I had paragraphs, paragraphs of medical that I had to remember and because they wanted to sort of teach people about the disease of the week. And I said, guys, no, doctors don't speak. Doctors usually don't talk. I mean, no one talks like this. So I could appreciate, Rob, what you were doing in this episode, especially with. I was really watching your work when you're, you know, talking to Shelley and you're listening to her chat and then you're listening to her stomach. And I could appreciate all the things that you had to do that you did so well all the time. Look seamless.

[Rob Morrow]

One of the things I insisted on early on, and I think it even became a contractual thing at a point, was that whenever I had to touch someone in a medical sense, there had to be a technical advisor. And so we would have doctors there because I just was determined to make it look authentic. But I do remember, like, you know, going home and trying to learn that stuff and it Was not easy. It was not. It wasn't fun. But. But it, it that, you know, the specificity is what makes something great. And there was so much specific things. Darren, do you. Did you base your character on. On someone or is it just imagine imagination?

[Darren Burrows]

No, no. Yeah, I just, you know, for me, Ed. Ed was for me. Ed's the best of me. So. Ed, huh?

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, that's a great thing to say.

[Darren Burrows]

He's the best of me without any of the other stuff. That's not the best. So, you know, everybody always got the benefit of the doubt. I always read, I tried to read every line to verbalize it in that way of, of the best possible reading of that line. Not performance wise, but positive in positivity. And so, yeah, I think, yeah, Ed always tried to. I try to see the best in everybody. And I think, you know, and, and, and, and that's something you can do even if you're reading the phone book. You can read, you know, so that's. I think a lot of the lines in the beginning kind of of were read in ways that were unexpected. But of course, the benefit of that was by the time I would get a call from down south, you know, of course we didn't have the Internet or anything back then and it would be days later and we were shooting on film and it was too late to do anything about it. So it was like, in the future, if there's a question about a way a line should be delivered, please call us ahead of time. But, you know, as Ed evolved and the shows evolved, they started writing more to that and it became easier.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, I think that was one of the frustrations for us is that our creators were in California and we were in Washington state and they weren't there when we filmed.

[Rob Morrow]

I didn't find that frustrating. I find that liberating.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yes, it was liberating, but as Darren is referring to, it became irritating and demoralizing later in post production when they came in and said, well, we really wanted you to say the line this way. And, you know, we didn't want you to have any emotion when Rick died when he was hit by a satellite. And what were you doing? Crying. It's a comedy. Write it down. So they would cut off my face and then make me in post production and looping, recreate all my lines and redo all my lines happily, you know. And so that was the frustration. I think, Darren, that's kind of what you were saying. They would call you three or four days later and say, well, really we wanted the line delivered this way. And I found that to be very frustrating sometime.

[Darren Burrows]

And then the hours. I mean, you brought it up, but the hours in the looping studio or soundstage to try to, you know, fix. Fix what we've done.

[Rob Morrow]

Let's explain that a little to the audience again, just so they understand. Probably most people do at this point, but ADR additional dialogue recorded, also known as looping, is something you do after you've shot a scene and they've edited it and they want to. Sometimes you have to replace a line that you've said because there's a sound technical problem and sometimes there's a creative reason like which Janine's talking about. So in. In the early years, especially with Northern Exposure, they were very controlling about how they wanted things done. And they also were. And I thought it was. I. I can see it even when I watch the shows now is sometimes they wanted. They didn't want any dead air. They were very scared of dead air. And so if they. So they would edit the shot so that if you would. Hadn't said anything, you. They would then have you add lines to what you said on camera in post production, in looping sessions. And each of us would go in for, you know, multiple hours, I think maybe even. Is it possible for three or four hours? Yeah, long hours in this room.

[Jeanine Turner]

Not normal.

[Rob Morrow]

As an actor, we're all. It's very hard to recreate, you know, the state you were in and. Or change it, you know, in a dry, you know, antiseptic room with a microphone, you know, two months later. And so. So they were. They were. I think they. I think they hurt. I mean, look, the show was a hit, so what do I know? But I think they hurt scenes sometimes because they were so scared of quiet or. Or they made someone change a line. And even if it didn't work, they didn't care because they got what they wanted, you know, And I'd be like, well, if you. You can tell that she's not saying that or he's not saying that, you know, so. But they didn't care.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, and also I think once you're in, Darren, I'd like to hear what you have to think about this, say about this. But once when you. As you say, Rob, when you're. When you're in the snow and you're out in. In Roslyn, Washington, which is where we filmed, and you're freezing cold, and it's, you know, 10 o' clock at night and you've got this emotional scene and you Bring all this emotion to it and all these layers to it, and you. You deliver the line and then they want you to do it again, you know, what, a month or six weeks later in a dry room. It's very hard to get those little, Little. Those little idiosyncrasies of the cracks in your voice or the little. The little depths or variations in your voice. And in my opinion, that's what makes acting wonderful. And it was very hard to recreate that, Darren, don't you think?

[Darren Burrows]

Oh, yeah, I think. I think so. And. And then justified or unjustified, I personally would feel. Experienced a certain amount of frustration where if it's worse, if it's so important, why can't there be someone on the set when I'm doing it the first time to tell me. Me that I'm going in the wrong direction? Rather than, you know, change the emotion in your voice, but your lips have to match the way you say the words so that everything matches. And there was even a couple. I remember a couple scenes where they would cut away from me. I'm not remembering the specific things, but I remember the moment of the emotional moment in the. In the living room where they're cut to the other actor so that they can add a line that you didn't say. So that. To change the tone of the scene in a way that they felt. Felt whoever they was, wasn't there. And so, yeah, I remember Martin. Bruce Lee was. He was a lifesaver and planning to play Diplomat in so many of those sessions. And that would be the other. Then the other frustration was because, as you know, I'm sure both of you remember, we're working six days a week in the beginning, shooting many long hours, that the looping sessions would be at odd hours and there would be nobody in the office down south mouth. And so Martin. Martin would be saying, well, this is what. This is the note and this is what they want. And this is, you know, let's. Let's give them one. And I'm like, But this doesn't. I don't understand. This doesn't make any sense to me. I thought it worked perfect. Who could let me talk to someone? Oh, well, there's no one to talk to. Just give me one. No, I'm not just gonna give you one. Then it'll get used. And I don't understand what I'm doing. And.

[Rob Morrow]

And then there was a negotiation. You're right. You would negotiate for how many lines you would do. I'll do one here, but I'm not gonna say that one. Which made you realize that it was all arbitrary, or a lot of it was arb. Arbitrary. It wasn't necessary, you know, because they didn't need it, you know.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, it was just frustrating. Like, I think we talked about that the other day, and I have a funny story about Martin coming to Italy when I was filming Cliffhanger.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, that's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

He flew to. He flew to Rome, to our Cortina.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, tell who Martin. Bruce Lee is first.

[Jeanine Turner]

And then Martin Bruce Lee is one of our associate producers or co producers of the show. And he was in charge of the music and of looping, and he was a lovely person, and he really understood our angst with this process and that. But he. They flew. He flew to. To Cortina, Italy, where I was filming Cliffhanger, and I had to go, you know, story. And he wanted all these lines. And I'm like, no, I don't think so. He's like, I just flew from Italy. I'm like, I mean, I just flew from the States.

[Rob Morrow]

Which is wild, because nowadays you could do it from a hotel room, you know.

[Jeanine Turner]

But I was like, yeah, I don't know. I'll give you this one, but I really. I'm not going to give you that one. And he's like, I have to go back with a very few lines. And I flew to Italy. I'm like, well, sorry, you know, but.

[Rob Morrow]

It was because by then we had a little more autonomy over our work, you know, it wasn't just. We weren't just serving someone else. We were. We were all in it together. And so our ideas would have to be listened to. Which was nice when the show became.

[Jeanine Turner]

Line, don't you think? Darren and Rob, that's the fine line between and bell boy. I tell you what, I don't know about y' all, but I've been guest stars since Northern Exposure on hit television series. And I've watched those actors, man, who've been there for five years or whatever, just annihilate the directors. I mean, just annihilate them. And I'm sitting and they're making like $500,000 an episode, you know, and. And I sit back and I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna observe this because, you know, this is really interesting to watch. But it's. It's. It's. It's quite challenging, I think, to. To try to recreate the work. But. But it's that fine line between how we. We talked about this, Rob earlier and Darren, I'd Love to hear what you think between, I mean, wanting to please the director, wanting to be a team player, wanting to please the producers who are the gods that created us, you know, and holding onto our own sense of integrity as actors. And I think that was the big struggle that I think, Rob, you and I had all the time. And Darren, what are your thoughts about that? Cause it's a fine line because you don't want to be difficult. You want to be able to give them what you want. But, you know, the minute you do that, that's what they'll use, and anything you want to bring to the character won't be used. But what are your thoughts, Darren, about that kind of complexity of trying to be a team player?

[Darren Burrows]

Yeah, I agree with that. And. And I'm sure, you know, I'm sure it cut both ways. You know, I'm sure there was a certain amount of frustration down south with not being able to, for whatever reason, not being able to be there and. And be more in control of the situation and always trying to play catch up. And. And I think so many of the notes came because of the distance came through intermediaries, so that it wasn't really a person who could make a decision. So there was not a conversation to be had about these things. And I found that when there was a conversation to be had, like when you would actually, you know, talk to Andrew Schneider, one of our executive producers, or talk to Josh or John, that the conversation went very well and arrived at an amicable solution to whatever the question was very quickly. But so many times there was no one to have a conversation with. And I think that led to, like, okay, well, if I'm not gonna talk to me, I'm gonna have to do what I think is right here. And then there would be, you know, some possible friction with that.

[Jeanine Turner]

But I do think saying all these things that were kind of behind the scenes frustrations for us, the show was still so good, and it just made my day to go watch the show this morning. I watched it this morning and it just took me away. And Darren, what are your thoughts about this particular episode? I mean, the creativity involved and the. And all those. All the different storylines that were interwoven together and just the way you felt so good at the end, I mean, at the end when they brought in, you know, Marilyn to do her dance and to see all that and how Fleischman was like, wait, this is what a powwow is? I didn't know what this was. A pow w. Pow wow is. And I'M like, oh, Fleischman. And it's like kind of like everybody had something different to say and how. And how, you know, they were all singing this Land Is My Land, you know, at the beginning. And then you bring out the comedian and then you have Marilyn. But it was so touching to see her do that. And it brought back the whole historical element of Alaska and the Native Americans and the blend of all the different storylines I thought were. It was so refreshing.

[Rob Morrow]

And also I think that what's interesting about that moment you were referring to about Fleischman, you know, kind of thinking, what is this powwow? But. But then when he walks out and he sees Marilyn, you know, come out and do her dance and take it so seriously and be so connected to her heritage, which Elaine was as well. And I think I. I vaguely remember her being very kind of involved in how that was gonna be represented and how it was gonna be done and very particular about what she was gonna wear. And she was so into it. And Joel sees that. And I think it's a great moment for Joel and all the characters in the show, the way they kind of get off themselves and have some kind of turn. And it made me think, Darren, do you have any Native? Because Ed was Native, right? Obviously. Do you have any Native American in your ancestry?

[Darren Burrows]

I don't have any Native American in me.

[Jeanine Turner]

And you're blonde. You're blonde?

[Darren Burrows]

Yeah, yeah, I am blonde. And yeah. So no, in fact, that called me. They actually called me for the part. Ed was originally written as a full blooded Native American. And then. So is that the point where I think he was when they went with. With him half and half, and that became a big part of his. One foot in one camp and one foot in the other of. And being an orphan like that. Then I went in for the part.

[Rob Morrow]

Did you end up doing research or hanging out and learning about Native culture? And did it change. Did it. Did it change you in at all? You know, the way you.

[Darren Burrows]

I did with the, you know, the, a lot of the extras and the background actors, and I was, you know, invited, I think, like a number of us were. I went to a sweat and, you know, was introduced to it at that point and learned so much, much and, and really was brought in as, you know, to, to some very intimate, I guess, situations. But I didn't, I deliberately didn't play Ed that way. For me, Ed is. Is just like anybody else who's born and he's and, and, and a child. So I didn't want to make it, like, different because, oh, he's part Native American and that means something. Any more than, you know, if he's part Irish or part German or anything like that. I thought. I'm not. I'm just going to stay away from all that. He's written as is. He's written as an orphan who's, you know, his world is the world of cinema. And which I just. As an aside, I thought that was funny, that line where he hasn't seen the latest Woody Al movie because it's not out on video cassette yet.

[Rob Morrow]

He's right.

[Darren Burrows]

Like, he's. He's a year behind the world, being up north there, but hasn't come out on video.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. And, you know, I think it'd be interesting to talk, too, about. I'm continually struck by. By the way we were always moving in our scenes. There was such movement. And that scene between you, Darren and Rob at the end, when you're talking about. Well, I don't think I can be, you know, Steven Spielberg, and you talk about how well Woody Allen wrote about what he knew, but it was. What I. What learned on Northern Exposure was there was no. And I liked this, actually. Whether it was. Whether it was the. Except, you know, at appropriate times, but whether it was nature or walk and talks or whatever. But there was movement in. In that scene. Rob was cooking the dinner. Rob was putting the eggs on the plate. Rob was putting the sausage on the plate. And then y' all sat down, you start talking. But then Rob Fleischman. Fleischman got up and went to the refrigerator and got milk, and then he poured milk. And I love that. I love that there's. There's this movement in all of the scenes from a directorial standpoint, because I went off and did other series, and I would just have to sit there and it was just like a dialogue back and forth. I'm like, wait. And I really appreciated the way Northern Exposure and the way they directed it. It was just so real. And there was movement. I loved just watching you cook in the kitchen. And the reality of that scene between.

[Rob Morrow]

The two of you, there was all kinds of. Yeah. And. And I kind of took that with me going on to all my other shows as a director, as an actor, you know, because it. It feels like life. And you're right. A lot of shows you watch, you know, and they just stand there and they're. And the actors don't even want to move. They're happy to not. But. But I thought. And it was hard, you know, learning that blocking while you had to deliver the lines and cook food and do all that. It looks so simple, but it takes a lot to get it right, you know, so that you. You pour the eggs. Cause you have to pour them on the same. You know, when they cut to different angles and stuff. But I want to just be. While we're talking about this, I want to just throw out to Sandy Smolin, who directed the episode. And I don't know, I think he came back again for another one.

[Jeanine Turner]

He came back for the Big Kiss. The Big Kiss.

[Rob Morrow]

For the Big Kiss. When was that?

[Jeanine Turner]

It was like in the second season, Right.

[Rob Morrow]

So he came back for a couple episodes. And he was a great director. His wife was a really lovely actress named Pam Reed, who I knew from New York. And so anyway, I thought he did such a lovely job. They all did. You know, so many of our directors, it was very rare that. I think, unless you guys want to differ, that I. That we had a director that just didn't work. You know, some of them we didn't get along with as well, or you could argue over a moment or something. But it was very rare that they didn't make the show better from what was on the page by creating all this blocking and physical activity for us to do. It's hard to work that out, you know, because. Because the director thinks it up in their head. And then they come on the set and the actor's like, well, I don't want to go there. I don't feel like I should. And so finding that's part of the.

[Jeanine Turner]

Process that I think will be interesting for people to understand. We would arrive at what I was always there at 5am or very early to do makeup. And then they pull you out of makeup, out of the makeup trailer, and you walk into wherever we are, whether it's outdoors and in Roslyn, Washington, in the snow, or whether it was in the soundstage and we have no makeup on, or I've. You know, I didn't have curlers at the time because I didn't have enough hair. But. But you. You hold on. You have your sides. And we work with a director about what kind of blocking we wanna have. And they would come with their preconceived notions. But a great director is a director that compromises. And that's what I've really learned about just compromising in life. You know, it's like the creative process. Cause he might say, well, I really see that you're sitting there and sitting here. And then Rob. I remember so many times, Rob's like, that's too close together. You know, it's like, what. That's not natural.

[Rob Morrow]

But you know, it's funny you say that, Janine. Cause I noticed that the scene with you and Rick in my office, you guys, the chairs are so close together and I'm like, why are. Well, nobod would ever sit like that. Like.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, they would. Well, but in a doctor's office you might. But. But they were trying to get us in a two shot. They were trying to get us in a two shot.

[Rob Morrow]

Two.

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm not saying what you were saying was wrong. I'm not saying what you're saying was wrong. I'm just saying that was part of the process where a good director would be one who would, who would come in and. But we had a say in that. We had a say in like, well, what if I get the milk on this line? It feels more natural to me to get up on this line than on that line. It was a real collaboration. Darren, what are your thoughts about that? You know, the block walking aspect?

[Darren Burrows]

I, I think so. And I think especially once the, the. The show is set and you know, set after the first season, I think a lot of weight, I should say weight came upon Jim Heyman and Jim Charleston, whoever, and our different first ads to. To not let the directors get too far off track, to maintain that kind of shooting style and aspect. And the way we shift shot, which is, you know, we were always trying to get film type shots on an episodic show and which, you know, led to the six working days, I think. Did we even have any interiors set up on the first season? I mean, so much of the stuff was exterior. Like you would shoot a film and just took so much work.

[Rob Morrow]

It's true. That's a great point. That's a great point. Because I think what the DP and the AD become the constant when you have different directors coming out. So it is. That's a great thing. We haven't talked about that yet. That they have to maintain the consistency, the aesthetics and the conventions that have been established for the show. Like for instance, it was a rule for whatever reason on Northern Exposure, you couldn't rack focus. Rack focus means someone's in the foreground and someone's in the background. And then you turn the focus so that they're in focus. Like you couldn't. They didn't want that look. It's a film look, but they didn't want it. I don't know why. And so if a director would come on and do that the DP would have to say, you can't do that. And sometimes there'd be tension between the director and the DP because the DP knew that the guys in LA would back him up. And so there was a tension.

[Jeanine Turner]

I like that. Yeah, that's a really good point, Darren. And I like the fact that there wasn't a lot of that modern quality. What. What I noticed about when I watched the episode today is there was movement. There was organic movement amongst the. The actors and the way we moved, and the camera would kind of follow that. I love that. I do not like the modern style, which is the, you know, handheld cameras that go like this. And the camera. Cameras go this way and this way and this way and this way. And they go back and forth and back and forth on the actors. And it takes me out of the scene because suddenly I'm like, oh, my God, I'm dizzy. It's all about, you know, the. It's like the. The camera. It's all about the camera. And you can feel the camera moving here and the camera moving there. But. But we had that kind of organic movement that didn't take you out of the reality of the story. Fantasy utopia, beautiful place, Northern Exposure was. I never felt like the camera work was distracting. And I think today, with all these modern things they do, it's just so distracting. It's about the camera is moving instead of really what's happening with the actors. We moved in Northern Exposure.

[Darren Burrows]

It's interesting you say that because the reality is we had so much dolly work. We actually had so much camera movement. In fact, the. The episode. This episode. This Sex Lives and it's tape. There's. There's a thing where I'm sitting at the bar and I'm sitting on the dolly, and the dolly starts tracking back and I'm on it. And the. The. The back foreground shifts to the background. Background almost like what you're talking about, without the racking focus, because I stay in focus the whole time. But the camera's moving and I'm on the camera and down. Down Hollings Bar. And it's a. It's an interesting but racking, but.

[Jeanine Turner]

But the dolly work. I remember the dolly work too, Darren. Now that you bring that up, you know, the people who. We should explain what a dolly is. But the dolly work was at least organic. It had been in holy.

[Darren Burrows]

I'm just saying it's. It was so natural and so organic that it was. It wasn't like what you're talking about.

[Rob Morrow]

It Was a classic. You know, a classic aesthetic for the show. It was very classic. And a dolly.

[Jeanine Turner]

Explain what a dolly is.

[Rob Morrow]

A cart on wheels with the cameras attached to. And it's used to move in and out of different positions in the scene. So you can have it on the floor, although the floor has to be really super smooth. And you can move around and wherever the actor's going, go. Or as we did on Northern Exposure, which was, you know, a convention of movies, as Darren said, we would have 200ft of dolly track on in the street in Roslyn, where we were shooting. And these guys would have to push this heavy dolly along. As, you know, say, Janine and I would be walking along in a walk and talk. They call it chatting. And if one of us messed up a line, they'd have to bring the thing back to one. They'd say back to one. And you could see our pattern. Pal J. What was it? JC the dolly grip for? The JC would roll his eyes and think, oh, my God, these actors. If they don't, you know, because it was 100 degrees and they were sweating. And we had to, you know, do a take after.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's another thing. We had an opportunity to have a lot of takes. We would do seven, eight, nine takes per shot. And today it's like, throw the moving camera that's gonna go back and forth. Who cares about lights? We're gonna light and post, which I hate. Um, we're gonna light and post. It doesn't matter to have any nuances of lighting on you right now. Cause we're just gonna. And when they bring it up in post, though, they have to bring it up on everybody. And it looks flat and horrible, in my opinion. But. But it's like that whole organic aspect is. Is missing when they just kind of go back and forth really quickly and. And we don't have that opportunity to. But also it's like one or two takes, the acting these days. And at least in the work I've done, it's like you get one or two takes and we're moving on. Whereas we really had a time. We did have time to massage our performance performances, and not only that, in editing. I really appreciate, in retrospect, the way that the show doesn't feel slow. Like, if you watch a lot of 1980s movies, they feel sort of slow right like this. But Northern Exposure doesn't feel slow. It still feels modern, even though we took our time. And the camera actually will stay on our faces for a lengthy period of time, which doesn't happen now.

[Rob Morrow]

They packed a lot into a lot of story, into every episode. I mean, watching that episode, Sex, Lies, and Ed's tapes last night, it's like, there's a lot of story. There's a lot of production value and a lot of story. It's a real testament to all involved. Darren, is there any memories or anything that when you were thinking about this that you want to share, like, anything about the show that comes back to mind that we haven't touched on yet? Because we have to. I think we'll have to wind it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Up pretty soon because you've got that great show with Peg Phillips.

[Rob Morrow]

My favorite moment in the whole 110 episodes is one where Darren is dancing with Ruth Ann up on a mountain cliff. But we'll talk about that and we'll bring.

[Jeanine Turner]

Those are the days when you had crane shots. Now they just use drones. Back then we had cranes.

[Rob Morrow]

No, that was a helicopter.

[Jeanine Turner]

Was that a helicopter shot?

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Anyway, cranes and helicopters.

[Darren Burrows]

What came back to me is just how much I loved making these show, making the show. And, you know, I mean, a lot, A lot of it's so much like, as they say, you know, making sausage. But. And so, you know, you want to tell people things that they don't know. But basically, I think that we all loved it. So I know I loved it, and I know you. You, both of you loved it, and I think we all loved it, making the show. And. And, you know, you.

[Jeanine Turner]

You.

[Darren Burrows]

You care a lot about things you make. And so I think all the. All that only made made it better. I think a lot of it comes across, you know, to me, when you watch the show and you see the people and you see how much they care about what they're doing, doing, just subconsciously and subliminally, I think that really comes across, that it's, you know, as a caring show. It's. And you want to watch the people because they care, and so you care. At least me, I'm watching that, you know, the characters, and both of you and Holling and Cynthia and everybody. And Barry, who's hilarious, of course. And that's my favorite thing, really. Any of the characters could be doing anything, anything. And I would like to watch it. And I. And I always did like watching it and watch, like, I wonder. I won't let me watch. I didn't watch the dailies, but I'd watch the episode every week just to see what you had done. And. And because you're. You're not able to see when you're Shooting your stuff, what everybody else is doing. And it was always. It was, that was, that was the. That's what came back to me watching this episode.

[Jeanine Turner]

And it was once a week. I mean it wasn't, it wasn't people. But since it was once a week, I don't know if y' all remember, I would. I came home after our first season, I guess because look what they packed into the first season and how, how original and creative it was. And people would literally get on Klikvil, you know, here in DFW and they'd be talking about the show and the water cooler conversation like, did you see what happened last week? And can you believe this happened? Whatever. I wonder what's gonna happen next week. And there is something about that old fashioned way of just savoring a show, you know, waiting a week and being excited about next Monday when it ha. When it. Because that's what happened. People were just all abuzz about what it was because it was just incredibly original.

[Rob Morrow]

I just want to say, you know, Darren, it's so great to see what you've created for yourself and you know, listening to you and talking to you, you know, you have this kind of down home wisdom that's really, really cool and I'm proud of you. You know, I'm in the way that I said at the beginning that I somehow felt kind of protective of you. I don't know why, but like to see that you've, you know, you've learned a lot and it's. And it. And you, you have a lot of wisdom to offer and so I appreciate you coming on the show and as Janine said, we definitely hope you'll come back, you know, and we'll try to time it for a big, some episode that you had a big, big storyline in. But this has been. It's nice, you know, it's such a nice, A nice trip down memory lane getting to. To chat with. So, so thank you both well and.

[Darren Burrows]

The feelings mutual and so great to see both of you again and thanks for thinking of me and thanks for having me on and anytime you want to have me back, I'll be back.

[Jeanine Turner]

Darren, it's wonderful watching you. I just get a big smile on my face even from the pilot on of the work you did and, and the simplicity, the complex yet simplicity and the good heart and the humor, everything you packed into one. You were just absolutely smart, special on the show and you're a special person. So.

[Darren Burrows]

Hey, how about that wardrobe, you guys?

[Rob Morrow]

What's that?

[Darren Burrows]

The wardrobe?

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah.

[Darren Burrows]

What about wardrobe on the show. Yeah, the wardrobe on the show. How great seeing how everybody was dressed, you know, how we all dressed back then was just like, I hadn't seen it in so long, I just, you know, that jumped out at me, you.

[Rob Morrow]

Know, see, But I think the wardrobe doesn't look dated. Like, I feel like a lot of it is like you could wear it now. Like, I mean, I mean, maybe some of the collar sizes and stuff like that, but like the, you know, jeans and flannel shirts are still being worn.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, not only that, they refuse to let anything be modern. So no one ever, you know, you hear about these big stars on other shows. They were being, they're sent gifts, you know, they're sent, you know, certain kind of shoes or clothes or cosmetic or whatever. We didn't get anything. At least I didn't, you know what I mean?

[Rob Morrow]

I got tons of stuff.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, well, all right, well, great. I didn't get any, anything. Nobody sent me anything. And it's like, it's like. Because they did not want us to be hip, the minute Rob you tried to bring in a cool little hip Hollywood, you know, Fred Siegel hat, they were like, no, no, none of that. We had to stay organ. Like, like we didn't have guest stars, you know, Barbra Streisand, whoever wanted to come on the show. And I'm not saying she did, but if we had a big star that wanted to come on. Nope, nope. They wanted to keep it very, very real.

[Rob Morrow]

Do you know how hard I had to fight to start wearing sunglasses? I don't remember what season they finally, they just me up probably because it was like I was like, we're out in the bush, we're out in the woods. The sun is glaring. Any normal human being would put on sunglasses. Like, it's not like. And finally. And, and you know, took a long time for television in general to let actors wear sunglasses.

[Jeanine Turner]

But, but they didn't want us to be hip. There was no hip. And I'm glad, I'm glad they did that actually. Yeah, those high waisted jeans they made me wear were not very flattering. I think, I think final second, third season, I was able to ask for some side zip pants that looked a little more flattering and those sorrel boots. But. Yeah, yeah, but. And we talked last week about Cynthia. I looked at her earrings, you know, that, that, that our wardrobe. Catherine mistress. The wardrobe. What, what is her word? Costume designer.

[Rob Morrow]

Bentley.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, Kathleen Bentley. She, she would even design the little earrings that Cynthia would wear to, to Kind of correspond with every scene. So I was really watching those. But yeah. Well, did you not like your wardrobe, Darren? Your le liked it fine.

[Darren Burrows]

I was just. It was just like, you know, jumped out at me just. And you wore the pants well, but just, you know, just like the high waisted pants and just the whole, the whole outfit, the whole outfits that everybody wore together just so. And maybe. And maybe because it was so long ago and I was there, but I just was like, wow, look how everybody's dressed.

[Jeanine Turner]

But you know, it was indicative and we need to close here. But I mean it was indicative of what I felt in Texas growing up because I wasn't in a big city. So there was a time in the 70s and 80s when you didn't know what the fashion was going to be until you saw it. And they were. They had already created it six months earlier and then six months later it hit Texas. And then you're finally figuring out what the fashion is. You know, we were always behind because it wasn't this instant gratification social media thing. You know, it took a while for fashion to reach and I think that was part of the charm that way up there in all Alaska, you know, I mean, they didn't really know what the fashion was and they also really didn't care. Yeah. Which I think is great. She left Gross Point, Michigan. Maggie did. She didn't want anything to do.

[Rob Morrow]

So I should say as we sign off that next week's episode it we have. Who's our guest?

[Jeanine Turner]

It's John Column, isn't it?

[Rob Morrow]

Kodiak next week you tell me, but I also want to just tell the people watching or listening most likely. You can also watch the show on YouTube on the Northern Disclosure channel. So you have the choice of watching or listening. And you can see these beautiful faces I'm looking at. And Darren, thanks again. And we'll be back next week with hopefully John Cullum.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, John Cullum. Kodiak moment. I remember that was a big show for that.

[Darren Burrows]

Love, John.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. And Dan.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, tell him you said hi.

[Jeanine Turner]

Please come back. Please come back. And so one of the fun things we all like to say in unison and. Cause we, since we're all being filmed separately is we'd like to end with north to the Future and Rob and I. So on the count of three, even though we're stepping on each other, it's gonna be recorded separately. So let's all say north to the future. You ready? North to the future. Okay, well, next week, thank you for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next week for a Kodiak moment. And we hope to have John column. If not, we're gonna have a fabulous guest. And this is a real treat. Real treat. It's a real treat, treat for me, Rob and Darren to spend time with you and to watch the show again. It's just sort of become the joy of my life. And thank all of you for listening. And next week, we'll be back. And thanks for joining us with o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Rob Morrow]

I think it should maybe be Fleischman, o' Connell, actually.

[Jeanine Turner]

In your dreams, Fleischmann.

[Rob Morrow]

Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.