S1E8: "The Aurora Borealis" with Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings

Summary

Northern Disclosure - Episode 1.8: "The Aurora Borealis" with Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings

Release Date: July 8, 2025

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Introduction

In the eighth episode of Northern Disclosure, hosts Rob Morrow and Jeanine Turner delve into the enchanting episode titled "The Aurora Borealis" from the beloved '90s series Northern Exposure. Joined by special guests Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings, the trio revisits the intricate layers, behind-the-scenes antics, and the philosophical undertones that make this episode a standout.

Guest Introductions

Jeanine Turner warmly welcomes Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings to the show, highlighting Adam's illustrious career as an actor and director, including his directorial debut on Northern Exposure. Richard is lauded for his multifaceted talent as a director, producer, writer, and actor, with notable accomplishments in projects like Louisiana Sky and Poker Face.

Spotlight on "The Aurora Borealis"

Adam Arkin shares his admiration for the episode, stating, "This is certainly one of my top episodes. If not my favorite of the first season." ([00:52]). Jeanine Turner echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the episode's eccentricity, brilliant music, and quirkiness: "Everything came together in this beautiful sort of genius." ([01:21]). The duo highlights the episode's blending of opera music with metaphysical and psychological themes, creating a layered narrative that resonates with audiences.

On-Set Dynamics and Humor

The conversation shifts to the camaraderie and humor present during the episode's filming. Richard Cummings reminisces about a particularly unprofessional day involving laughter during a negotiation scene, leading to stern reactions from the director: "We nearly all got drummed out of the business." ([09:14]). Rob Morrow adds humor by recalling director Matt Nadella's disapproving stance on their on-set antics: "He literally stood there with his arms crossed like, you're in trouble." ([53:51]). These anecdotes underscore the light-hearted atmosphere and the cast's chemistry.

Character Adam: Development and Nuances

Delving into character development, Jeanine Turner praises Richard Cummings for his portrayal of Adam, a Vietnam vet and gourmet chef: "What I think was so great about Adam was the juxtaposition of extremes." ([07:48]). Richard explains his approach: "I chose to not know myself that much about what was true and what was false about him... I loved that freedom." ([30:04]). Adam Arkin reflects on the complexities of Adam's character, noting moments where his character's facade is playfully shattered: "It's so funny catching you in one of your lies... [07:18]."

Directing and Behind-the-Scenes Challenges

Richard Cummings discusses his first foray into directing with Northern Exposure, detailing the challenges of stepping into a role traditionally held by seasoned directors: "As a first-time director, I had to navigate without the help I needed... But it was addressed and things got easier." ([38:42]). He emphasizes the importance of collaboration and maintaining the show's established tone, ensuring that his directorial choices complemented the existing aesthetic.

Cinematography and the Role of Location

The hosts and guests delve into the show's stunning cinematography and the significance of its location in the Pacific Northwest. Rob Morrow reflects, "It was the first time I realized that location as a character." ([26:04]), while Jeanine Turner laments the loss of cinematic depth in modern digital filming: "Everything's so lit... it's like we're back to the big glaring lights of the 1940s." ([55:00]). Richard Cummings concurs, advocating for the irreplaceable warmth and depth that film provides over digital alternatives.

Themes of Community and Acceptance

A central theme of Northern Exposure emerges as the hosts discuss the show's portrayal of a benevolent universe and community acceptance. Richard Cummings succinctly captures this: "It was about community and acceptance and a kind of gentle inclusion free of cynicism." ([24:03]). Adam Arkin adds, "They called it a benevolent universe where anyone could get along...," ([24:31]) highlighting the show's optimistic outlook and its impact on both characters and viewers.

Reflections on the Pacific Northwest as a Filming Location

The guests share their personal experiences filming in the Pacific Northwest, drawing parallels between the serene landscapes of Northern Exposure and Alaska's wilderness. Richard Cummings reminisces, "I felt like I was in Jack London territory." ([27:16]), while Rob Morrow discusses the logistical challenges and the unparalleled beauty that made the location integral to the show's charm.

Future Plans and Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings express their enthusiasm for future collaborations on Northern Disclosure, hinting at potential appearances by other cast members like Valerie. Jeanine Turner playfully suggests a Northern Exposure Christmas album, showcasing the enduring camaraderie among the hosts and guests. The episode concludes with heartfelt acknowledgments and the promise of more engaging discussions in upcoming episodes.

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Notable Quotes:

• Adam Arkin: "If you want to see Janine's beautiful face, you can go to the YouTube channel." ([00:40])
• Jeanine Turner: "I loved that freedom, and it informed the way I approached him." ([30:04])
• Richard Cummings: "It was about community and acceptance and a kind of gentle inclusion free of cynicism." ([24:03])
• Rob Morrow: "It was the first time I realized that location as a character." ([26:04])

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Northern Disclosure offers a nostalgic yet insightful exploration of one of Northern Exposure's most memorable episodes. Through engaging conversations, laughter, and shared memories, Rob, Jeanine, Adam, and Richard celebrate the show's enduring legacy and the magical elements that continue to captivate audiences decades later.

Transcript

[Rob Morrow]

Foreign.

[Jeanine Turner]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Northern Disclosure, where my fellow actor, Rob Morrow and I, Jeanine Turner, walk through every episode of Northern Exposure for this watch podcast. And we're thrilled that you're with us today for episode eight, Aurora Borealis. And of course, I don't know if you're listening right now or you're watching us, but if you're watching, you can also listen. And if you're listening, you can watch Rob. Rob wanted to make sure I said that.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, absolutely. You can. If you. If you want to see Janine's beautiful face, you can go to the YouTube channel. And it's. It's the name of it is Northern Disclosure. And so you could watch her listen.

[Jeanine Turner]

There you go. And Rob's beautiful face, too.

[Adam Arkin]

Thank you. You know, I'm so happy, A, because of our guests that we're gonna introduce in a second. But B, this particular episode, which I watched again yesterday, I would say it's certainly one of my top. I always say there was 10 episodes of Northern Exposure that I thought were really extraordinary out of the 110, and this is one of them. And it's certainly, if not my favorite of the first season. One of two. How about you?

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, well, one of two or three. Absolutely. Because it was so eccentric and brilliant, and the music and the scenery and the quirkiness of everything, just the way opera music was played behind certain things, it was just. Everything came together in this beautiful sort of genius. And it was so quirky and fun.

[Adam Arkin]

And spiritual and metaphysical, and it touched on so many philosophical points and. And psychological points. There were so many layers.

[Jeanine Turner]

Young was quoted all the time, and.

[Adam Arkin]

He was in it. I mean, he talk about.

[Jeanine Turner]

I mean, so much fun. That's so true.

[Adam Arkin]

And we should say, by the way, that the reason this. Normally, we. We tape this from our respective homes.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yes. And Rob and I are in the.

[Adam Arkin]

Studio together because we happen to be in New York. So we thought, why not get together? Which we'll do on occasion.

[Jeanine Turner]

We're gonna do it in LA soon.

[Adam Arkin]

And we might even do some live, you know, podcasts from here and there.

[Jeanine Turner]

That'd be fun. And get. I'll get robbed to Texas on the ranch, and I'll have you want to feed a longhorn.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, I've always wanted this.

[Jeanine Turner]

Number one on your list. Right? And feed a longhorn cow. But anyway. No, it was. It was it. Well, one of my favorite lines is from this show. One of them is, they're great eccentric lines. One is, in your dreams, Fleischman.

[Adam Arkin]

That's One that's not from this show though.

[Jeanine Turner]

No, not from this show.

[Rob Morrow]

But.

[Jeanine Turner]

But, but from this show it's Daddy was a traveling man. I mean, it's one of the things I always remember, but I may be getting ahead of ourselves a little. Shall we bring in our special guest?

[Adam Arkin]

I think I'd love to. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

We have two special guests today. Drum roll please. We have, we have the oh so fabulous Adam Arkin, ladies and gentlemen. Who played Adam, that's coincidental. He was on our show. He went on to star in Chicago Hope. He's an in demand director now. He won a DGA award for Louisiana Sky. He has been directing Natasha Lyonne and executive producing and Poker Face. And his first directorial debut was for an episode of Northern Exposure and also he directed four episodes of the Offer, which is a behind the scenes about the Godfather. So we're really thrilled to have Adam. Adam. We're introduce our second guest of mine. But say hello, Adam.

[Richard Cummings]

Hello everyone. Hi guys.

[Adam Arkin]

Adam is one of my favorite people in the world, let alone he's such a talented director and been watching his work over the years and it's just stunning. It just gets better and better and better. And Richard Cummings, who I got to work with recently on a tribute on a charity event, a tribute to Donny Hathaway, which was such, he did such a beautiful job. So Richard is not only a great guy, but a terrific director, producer, writer and actor. He wears many hats and he does them all with grace and dignity and skill. And you know, I was fascinated by, you know, Northern Disclosure. Northern Exposure distinguishes itself often with these kind of unique takes on relationships. And the character of Bernard, which he played him being black and, and he played Chris Stevens brother who's white obviously. And, and they just kind of, it's just an accepted thing.

[Jeanine Turner]

And his dad was a traveling man.

[Adam Arkin]

His dad, that was the line comes from. But he's a great guy and a great director and, and done so many things.

[Jeanine Turner]

And we're thrilled to have both of you.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah. So.

[Jeanine Turner]

Hey.

[Adam Arkin]

Hey, Richard.

[Jeanine Turner]

Welcome.

[Rob Morrow]

Good to see old friends. Hey, good to see old friends.

[Jeanine Turner]

Don't we have great memories of being in Rosslyn, Washington together and traveling to the Cascade Mountains and whatnot. I just, it's amazing that it could be 30, 35 years ago and I can still feel such a bond with of course, Rob and the two of you. This is really special. Thanks for coming on the show today.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, it's a fantastic.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

By the way, Rob, you mentioned I wear many hats. I just want to say this is my favorite hat. It's a Clipper hat.

[Adam Arkin]

I'm sorry about that hat. I'm sorry about where the Clippers are in the. But I'm. But I can say, being in New York, I'm a fair weather fan of basketball. If I'm in LA and the Lakers are doing well, I'm a Lakers fan. If I'm in New York and the Knicks are doing as they are, I'm a Knicks fan.

[Rob Morrow]

So.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well. And I'm from Texas, so I don't even know who the Clippers are.

[Adam Arkin]

But.

[Jeanine Turner]

Who are the Clippers? Somebody tell me.

[Adam Arkin]

So I have so many great.

[Jeanine Turner]

Wait, nobody's telling me who the Clippers are.

[Adam Arkin]

They're a basketball team. Los Angeles.

[Jeanine Turner]

There's two Lakers and the Clippers.

[Adam Arkin]

Exactly.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay. We have Houston and Dallas rivalries. I get it. Okay. I get it now. Thank you.

[Adam Arkin]

Yes.

[Jeanine Turner]

You're welcome. Okay.

[Adam Arkin]

When I think about Adam first, I remember so clearly when, Adam, when you came on the show, you made me laugh like nobody. And I got in so much trouble. And I have boxes of outtakes usually over my shoulder with my things going like this. And they would come and yell at me and they'd say, rob, we gotta get this. And they get pissed off.

[Jeanine Turner]

The pass is closing.

[Adam Arkin]

And you had this ability to kind of laugh with me, but then shut it off and be in control. And I just remember. And it was something, you know. Adam's dad is the great Alan Arkin, who recently passed away. And he was very influential to me as a young actor, even before I knew I wanted to be an actor. And Adam, as you will hear, has his very similar cadences to his dad and also a similar sense of humor. And so when he showed up and started when. I mean, his. The way he. The way he presented Adam, the character was so funny and charming and scary and it. And it would just. And when I was watching the episode the other day, there's constantly shots where you see the camera over my right shoulder and you can just see my cheek and I'm smiling and. I know. And poor Adam had to deal with me laughing while he's supposed to be serious. And I think you even ad libbed something at one point. I'm serious here.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, and Adam, I want to ask you about it. But see, what I think was so great about Adam, your character was this juxtaposition that all of our characters had. There was this yin and this yang. And here you were a Vietnam vet, this man who lived alone. Well, we think. And yet you were this extraordinary Chef. So talk to us a little bit about the character and how you created the character and how you found these nuances of combining these two extremes.

[Richard Cummings]

Well, you had mentioned earlier that it was a coincidence that the character's name was Adam. I don't think it was a coincidence. I had, I had worked with Josh and John on another show, a short lived but, but well received show called A Year in Life. And I was playing a very conservative, kind of reined in, stay at home dad and, and they got to know me a little bit and at one point Josh looked over at me and said, you're actually out of your frickin mind, aren't you? And I was sort of like, yeah, I am. He said, well, we have to write something to that at some point. Well, the show was canceled and then I guess it was within a calendar year. Northern came on as a summer replacement series. And I got a call saying, you know, there's something coming your way. We thought of you when we wrote it and take a look at it. And I just flipped out when I saw the character. I just felt there was a golden opportunity there because he was just a walking idiot. And as you were saying what he was known for his Vietnam bonafides and being a gourmet chef. The only thing we knew about him for sure was that he could cook and that he was irascible because he was also like a pathological liar, clearly. So I just love that you never really knew who the hell he was.

[Adam Arkin]

It's so funny that moment when I catch you in one of your lies and the look on your face is like, it's so priceless. You don't know what to say because.

[Jeanine Turner]

It was something about 15 days. Days, wasn't it?

[Adam Arkin]

Something about being in Vietnam at the same time he was 15. You know, it was something the years didn't quite.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, yeah, right. A year.

[Richard Cummings]

You mentioned the, the laughing. I remember Richard. Richard, you, Rob and I, along with Valerie, the most. It was the most unprofessional day of my life in terms of my behavior. We had to do a negotiation around a table and it was. We nearly all got drummed out of the business. I remember talking to the director afterwards. I'm blanking on his name, who directed it, but he got so angry. And I came up to him like an hour later after we had finished it and I said, look, I know it was difficult, but we got the scene right. I mean, the scene is there. And he wheeled around and he said, I don't know, Adam.

[Rob Morrow]

I mean you thought it was goddamn funny for the past three hours.

[Richard Cummings]

I remember.

[Adam Arkin]

Matt. No, delicate. That's. I have those outfits, by the way. I do have them.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Arkin]

That's the table scene. And I so remember it. And we. And they. They were so pissed at me because I was the. I was the only, like, regular, regular. You guys were guests and they were like, you've got to set the tone. You gotta. You know, you can't.

[Jeanine Turner]

They always hated it when we laughed. I remember having so many laughing scenes at the bar. And they would come up and give us the stern look.

[Adam Arkin]

Right? Yeah. They burned.

[Jeanine Turner]

And yet those moments were really golden. And they could have used some of them, too.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, they did. They had no choice.

[Richard Cummings]

But the stern looks make everything worse, too.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, yeah.

[Richard Cummings]

Like a school child.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, also, we worked such long hours that you're just slap happy after a while.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, before I ask Richard something, I just want to ask you to Adam. So what do you do when your actors, when you're directing and you. And they have a. They get. They go on a laughing jag. How do you deal with it?

[Richard Cummings]

I really try to, for as long as I can. I mean, until. Until it starts becoming really problematic. I make it clear that they're fine to laugh, and I'll laugh along with them. Not because I'm not under pressure, but because having gone through the feeling of, you know, you're bad, it only makes it worse, you know, So I try to avoid that.

[Jeanine Turner]

Those are great moments, though, Richard.

[Adam Arkin]

I mean, your character, first of all, the way you played him was brilliant. But, you know, when you. When you arrive on a motorcycle, kind of oblivious to where you are. With Bad Moon Rising, all the music in this episode, the music was amazing. The Louis Armstrong and the Bad Moon.

[Jeanine Turner]

Rising and Moon river, with lots of people different. Different singers singing.

[Adam Arkin]

But, Richard, you're. What did you think? Because I know. Because Adam was clearly excited with the potential of Adam on the page. What did you. Did you know what was going on with Bernard when you read it? Like, was it clear? Because it's such a great arc of the relationship?

[Rob Morrow]

No, I wasn't that clear on things until we got there. And Peter o', Fallon, who directed the episode, great director.

[Adam Arkin]

Great director.

[Rob Morrow]

Really, really enjoyed working with him. I mean, he was so. I don't want to say explanatory, but he helped us understand that. That connection between John and I touching the back of our heads. Because none of that stuff is written. Touching the back of our heads at the same time, nodding at the same Time. Finishing each other's sentences.

[Adam Arkin]

That wasn't in the script. Finishing the.

[Rob Morrow]

That part was. But to get the rhythm to do.

[Adam Arkin]

That right is pretty.

[Rob Morrow]

Pretty challenging. And so I didn't know what to make of things. And also at that time, too, you're talking about a black guy and a white guy being brothers and Daddy being a traveling man. There's a small story about the. Because it was the second episode ever shot, and if you guys recall it, it aired as the eighth episode.

[Adam Arkin]

I didn't remember.

[Jeanine Turner]

I didn't remember that.

[Adam Arkin]

Wow.

[Jeanine Turner]

Really?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. From.

[Jeanine Turner]

We shot.

[Adam Arkin]

Oh, that's right. They thought it was too controversial.

[Rob Morrow]

They thought it was too weird.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't remember that at all now.

[Adam Arkin]

I do.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, that's a good point for the audience. That's a good point for the audience to hear that.

[Rob Morrow]

That.

[Adam Arkin]

So in 1990. And. And it was. You say it was weird, but I think it was probably the. The aspect of the black and white brothers. Right. I mean. Right. That was the thing. I mean, also.

[Jeanine Turner]

How about running to the. To the car in the dream sequels? Daddy, you forgot your balls.

[Adam Arkin]

I mean.

[Richard Cummings]

That's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

Even that was risky back then.

[Adam Arkin]

You're right. And so I could see. So they got scared, but they didn't bury it. They. They fortunately aired it, but.

[Jeanine Turner]

And that's only because we were a summer series. I don't think we ever would have gotten away with that.

[Adam Arkin]

You're probably right. And it was aired as the last episode of the season, which probably they fought. They figured if we either have. Not either.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, that's right. What do we have to lose?

[Rob Morrow]

So, you know what happened before the episode even aired? Josh called me and said the magic words that every actor wants to hear. Would you like to do more of these? You're out your mind. Absolutely.

[Adam Arkin]

Oh, so they weren't. They didn't realize. They hadn't planned on it. That's interesting.

[Rob Morrow]

Right?

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, y' all were. You were. You were so good together.

[Richard Cummings]

So good.

[Jeanine Turner]

And that dream sequence in the truck. In the Mac truck. You know when you have the wig on and you say, that's a problem with dreams. You can't control them. I mean, it was just superb writing. It really was.

[Rob Morrow]

It was really Carl Jung driving a Mac truck.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah.

[Adam Arkin]

Carl Jung driving and just screaming. I know. Know the collective unconscious, but I don't know. Drive, drive.

[Rob Morrow]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jeanine Turner]

Those dream sequences were so funny. And you had an innocence, Richard, in what you did. You just had a real innocence. Both of you did. And you know, and watching John. John Corbett, he had this Elvis thing about him.

[Adam Arkin]

He loved Elvis.

[Jeanine Turner]

He had this little Elvis thing about him that he would do.

[Adam Arkin]

He would do Elvis and John Travolta. He could do a great video.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, no, it's John Travolta. That's it. No, it's John Travolta.

[Adam Arkin]

John. John Corbett owns Elvis's license, his driver's license. He bought it in an auction.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, well, there is an Elvis thing, but actually it was John Travolta that I saw in this one. But the two of you together, when you awaken from that dream sequence and when you speak together at the same time. Dad's a traveling man was really, really wonderful. Great memories.

[Adam Arkin]

Adam, where did that wig come from? Was that your choice or was that part of the.

[Richard Cummings]

The wig was something that I campaigned for early on, and there was resistance to it right up until the last second. And right before we started shooting, I was in the makeup trailer and I said, please, like, just reconsider this. And everybody was like, but we can't. We'd have to get you fitted for a wig. It would take time. I said, you don't have to fit me for a wig. We have the watch cap I'm already wearing. And I took, like, a made to order crappy wig that was sitting in the trailer, put it on, pulled the watch cap over it and said, this is all it's gotta be. I never have to take the hat off. Please let me do this. And they were finally like, okay, they let me do it. And then when the wedding episode came along, I tried to pitch that there was this great movie with De Niro and Ed Harris where he gets cleaned up in the middle of the movie. He'd been kind of a bum, but then suddenly appears like. And he's absolutely quaffed and gorgeous. And I said, you know, in the first half of the episode, I look like normal Adam, But I think it would be great if when I came out for the wedding, I was completely clean shaven, short hair, like, looking like totally coif, and. But still the same irascible lunatic. And they wouldn't go for it. They wouldn't let me do it.

[Adam Arkin]

No, it's funny.

[Richard Cummings]

Resisted the wig. And then they resisted losing the wig.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, that's. That's television in a nutshell right there.

[Jeanine Turner]

It's so true. But. But talk about. Did you have to. Wait, did you actually have to walk in that horrible mud on that street and bare feet.

[Richard Cummings]

There was only one shot where. Where I did And I, it was one that. It was something that I actually asked them to let me do. They were the, The. The safety things that they were asking me to wear were more cumbersome and difficult to deal with than just muscling through one take. And bare feet. So I, I did do one with actual bare feet.

[Rob Morrow]

And in.

[Richard Cummings]

In honor of today, I, I just want you to know that I get bare feet. I wanted to be in character.

[Adam Arkin]

So for those of you who are just listening, Adam just showed us his size 17 foot.

[Jeanine Turner]

Adam. You know, I have to just say on a quick side note that the actor that played the man trapped in the. The firefighter, terrific.

[Adam Arkin]

He was a. I don't know his name. He was a Seattle. Seattle rep actor. And, and he was also a newscaster.

[Jeanine Turner]

He was really funny. And that dialogue about, you know, the north and the east and the west, the dialogue in this show was just on par. The, the dial. The dialogue was. Was simply superb. And you combine that with the quirkiness of the writing and the. In the music that we had.

[Adam Arkin]

His name was John Procaccino.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay. He was terrific. Wasn't he good?

[Adam Arkin]

He came back multiple times.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah.

[Adam Arkin]

Really funny guy and a great guy.

[Jeanine Turner]

But I'm up here and you look out and you say, but if there's a fire, what could you do about it? Because I keep trying to tell them that I'm up here with these migraines.

[Adam Arkin]

And they don't care. You know what I was thinking as I was watching?

[Jeanine Turner]

So funny. Everybody should watch it. It's a great escape.

[Adam Arkin]

It's great. You're right. But I was watching, when I was watching the episode, you know, things come back that you forget and all of junk. Chris Stevens art projects. The building of the aurora borealis is so beaut. Woody Crocker again.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, the sets, the sets were amazing.

[Adam Arkin]

I'm talking about the sculpture, Right?

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, that's kind of a set.

[Adam Arkin]

Absolutely.

[Jeanine Turner]

It is a set.

[Adam Arkin]

But I mean, it was so beautifully rendered and that they have these sunset shots against the landscape of we're in Washington. And it just was so magical and it transcended anything, you know, that I.

[Jeanine Turner]

Could think of the work that went into that, that they had to do for that. And then if you look at the intricate nature of even Adam, of Adam, of your house and all, everything in the background and Richard. I even thought it was. I live on a ranch and I've had a camper that I've lived in on a ranch by myself, which is a whole nother story. But you had to crank the open. You have to crank it at the top to let the air in. I thought, oh, that's so realistic. But the sets were amazing. When you hear Lululemon, you probably think of Align yoga pants. Weightlessly soft, like you're wearing next to nothing. That's why you see them in class, at the grocery store and in the park. But did you know about skirts with built in liner shorts so you can still jump for the Frisbee and tanks and bodysuits? With Align's iconic stretch, you won't want to take it off. And with endless style options, you don't have to shop in store or [e-mail] hey, I'm Christine Taylor.

[Adam Arkin]

And I'm David Lasher.

[Jeanine Turner]

Remember when life felt a little simpler, but everything was changing?

[Adam Arkin]

That's the space we explore every week on. Hey, dude. The 90s called.

[Jeanine Turner]

This podcast isn't just about the decade. It's about growing up, falling down, and everything in between.

[Adam Arkin]

We're sitting down with our friends, castmates, creators, even fans of an era that everyone seems to be so nostalgic for. We'll talk about the work, the impact, even the personal stories you've never heard before.

[Jeanine Turner]

Hey, dude. The 90s called new episodes every week. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Adam Arkin]

And he called it the Northern Lights. And over the series, over the years, he would do these different art projects, these installation pieces, pieces, and they were always beautifully done and, and summed up something. And the whole episode for me touched on so many elements that I. That I just found, you know, fascinating.

[Rob Morrow]

It was an introduction to a universe. And the participants in the universe right there. He was building sort of a universe.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, and there's the whole one last shot. There's that last shot when the townspeople are standing there and everyone's talking about the sculpt, about the sculpture. And that kind of, to me, kind of represented. It was like, wow. It's this universe of people that are so different that have come together and just live together and exist. It was really beautiful.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I love metaphysics. It's one of my favorite things in the world. And that dialogue when you say, what is the Roar Borealis? And John Corbett says, well, you know, it's electrons and protons that come together with other particles and giving this whole little speech. But there's the whole spiritual element of the show, which I think you mentioned earlier, this kind of metaphysical connection of these. I mean, oh, my gosh, there's so many signs, I get that you just have to pay attention to them. But the fact that the two of you, Richard and your character and John Corbett's character, that y' all were in. In touch enough with what sort of the spiritual world was telling you in your dream sequences and you followed that, that's a message in itself too, don't you think, Richard? I mean, listening to what is telling you, so to speak.

[Rob Morrow]

Absolutely. And that's why I brought up the point about this was the second episode ever shot. Because here we are, how many years later, talking about this and reliving it and our experiences and we're still connected.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

So, you know, it was not by, you know, it wasn't by accident. I mean, we've all done tons and tons of shows and are you still in touch with those people? Do you really know what they're doing or. You know, it's like Adam and I didn't plan to be white bearded together, but we are so. But you know, we're still very much connected. It's like seeing old friends.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Richard Cummings]

It was about community and acceptance and a kind of gentle inclusion and completely free of cynicism, which most, you know, we're a project with that level of intelligence nowadays. It's very hard to find anything that doesn't have at least a thread of cynicism.

[Adam Arkin]

You're so right. It's my pet peeve, especially this year, you know, being all the, you know, what's going on in the world. There's so much cynicism even in good works, even in shows that I kind of like. But at their heart, they're cynical and I find it disappointing, which is why it's amazing to me that Northern Exposure is, is attracting all these new fans.

[Jeanine Turner]

Because it's a benevolent universe.

[Adam Arkin]

As Josh, you know, we had Josh Brand on as our second guest, as our first guest, and he, you know, he talked about. What they used to talk about was that it was.

[Rob Morrow]

They were.

[Adam Arkin]

They called it a benevolent universe where anyone could get along and you could do anything in the, in the fictional town of Sicily, as long as there wasn't malice behind it. Right. Which was just such a great way to describe it and.

[Jeanine Turner]

But there's such a level of acceptance. Acceptance, acceptance in the end.

[Adam Arkin]

And Richard, like what you were saying about the community coming together to look at Chris Stevens Corbett's art piece, it's like here you have these, you know, not necessarily there's sophisticated, there's highbrow, there's low brow, which I think the show appealed to both highbrow and lowbrows. But in the town you had that represented. You had people that didn't really didn't know the vernacular of art, but they could appreciate the power of symbolism. And then you had someone, you know, who could articulate what it was. They were. See that they all got along. And then you have Cynthia Geary's Shelley, who was the last person you would think that would really get the impact of that. That piece. And she's just like, I get it, I'm into it. I think that's a great.

[Jeanine Turner]

I love the stars. Or didn't she say something?

[Adam Arkin]

Something like that. It was really great.

[Rob Morrow]

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

[Jeanine Turner]

How about the location work? What did you enjoy the location work, Richard, out there by the. The mountains and the, the water and wind and.

[Rob Morrow]

No, it was the first time I realized that location as a character.

[Adam Arkin]

Absolutely.

[Rob Morrow]

And I had never thought of it that way. And part of the reason it looked so beautiful the show was because of locations. You couldn't have replicated that in Los Angeles at all.

[Adam Arkin]

I think it's the first time on network TV that landscape was a character that I can think of.

[Rob Morrow]

Yes. You're talking about a lot of those shots. They were movie esque.

[Adam Arkin]

That's the other thing I say it was the cinematizing of television or at least part the beginning of it.

[Rob Morrow]

Yes. Yeah. So I, I love. And also too, you know, as an actor, you get to go fly first class someplace and when you get there, somebody hands you an envelope of money to a car and they just say show up and day after tomorrow and we're shooting.

[Adam Arkin]

Right.

[Rob Morrow]

Okay.

[Adam Arkin]

Or you got three days off and you can do whatever you want in Seattle and show up on Friday.

[Jeanine Turner]

Seattle was so fresh, beautiful, so beautiful.

[Richard Cummings]

You can get that in the CIA. But there's a huge level of risk.

[Jeanine Turner]

Like your life. The one thing I told my daughter is. The one thing I said, the one thing you cannot do is join the CIA. Don't do it. But Adam, how did you enjoy working in Seattle and on the set?

[Richard Cummings]

I. I absolutely loved it. First of all, I loved Seattle, the city. But it was the first time. It was the first time I'd ever spent time in the Pacific Northwest. And I over romanticized it back then. I felt like flying to Seattle and coming in and seeing the landscape there. I felt like we were like a hop, skip and a jump away from the Yukon. I was like, I really felt like I was in Jack London territory.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, that's why it worked that, you.

[Richard Cummings]

Know, that's why so exotic to me, you know, that's why it worked.

[Adam Arkin]

And we should remind, you know, the audience on, you know, that. That even though the show took place in Alaska, we shot it in. We shot the exteriors in the north, in the Cascades of Washington, and we had a sound.

[Jeanine Turner]

We stayed in the Timber Lodge Hotel. Did y' all ever have to stay in the Timber Lodge Hotel, which was like an old business. An old business complex that they turned in? It was like a. It was like a Motel 6. But somehow it had some charm.

[Adam Arkin]

A little bit.

[Jeanine Turner]

Not much, but it had some.

[Adam Arkin]

But I. I remember running around with both of you guys on the. And having some really crazy, debauched weekends in Seattle.

[Jeanine Turner]

I wasn't invited to those. Well, you.

[Adam Arkin]

You weren't party girl.

[Richard Cummings]

We were.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's true. I wasn't.

[Adam Arkin]

We were.

[Jeanine Turner]

I went out to my horse.

[Rob Morrow]

We had. We had a good time. Remember, we started in Bellevue. The first sound stage was in Bellevue.

[Adam Arkin]

That's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, it always was for this.

[Rob Morrow]

For this episode.

[Adam Arkin]

Redmond.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well. Well, we. It was in Redmond. It was always the same soundstage.

[Adam Arkin]

We had found a different soundstage for the first season and the first two seasons in Bellevue, and then we moved.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't remember that at all. Yeah, I thought it was always Redmond.

[Adam Arkin]

No, no. We were in a little place first.

[Jeanine Turner]

We were.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Adam Arkin]

Anyway, then we moved to Redmond, where we. Where we lived out our time, where.

[Jeanine Turner]

Wow.

[Adam Arkin]

And we talked about that.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't remember that at all.

[Adam Arkin]

The show was. Once it became a bonafide hit, all these engineers showed up and started shoring up the ceiling like they didn't care before. But once we were hit, they needed to protect their asset.

[Jeanine Turner]

Adam, go back to talking to us about developing your character. Because it was so rich.

[Richard Cummings]

There was so much built into the way he was written that I just felt that I could throw myself into it. And because of his, I chose to not know myself that much about what was true and what was false about him. I just kind of stayed. I went with the flow of the fact that they were kind of making things up for him as they wrote him. And I kind of loved that. I loved that freedom, and it informed the way I approached him, and I think it even informed the way I played him, you know, take to take. I've never played a character where I felt more free to be spontaneous or do anything that came into my head again, as long as there was no malice involved.

[Adam Arkin]

And I love the contrast of you being this, like, you know, dim sum connoisseur out in the middle of the bush, and you're making me these meals, and I being the New York, you know, New York.

[Jeanine Turner]

Y' all knew the same restaurant. Five city. What was it? Five cities.

[Adam Arkin]

I forget. I don't know if it was real, but I remember I wrote down a line that I just thought was so funny when Adam says, I was there readying a cream sauce with a buku Lovely from Play Cool when Charlie came out of nowhere and ambushed our kitchen. Such a great.

[Jeanine Turner]

I mean, so do you think he really fought in Vietnam? Did he, you think?

[Richard Cummings]

I think he did because. Because of his exchanges with Menophil later. They're kind of exchanging knowledgeable intel about the experience that seemed to prove he was actually there and just.

[Jeanine Turner]

And just wanting to be away. How many of us can relate to wanting to just be away?

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, it's a huge fan.

[Jeanine Turner]

And my great, great, Great, great grandfather J.B. gantt left some letters behind and talked about going out into the fields and the wild plains of Texas and chasing coyotes on his horse in the middle of the night. And then he talked about taxes starting. They started the tax the pigs and the this and the that. And then he said, how about your freedom now? You know, he was like, we don't even have any freedom anymore. But it's so hard in this universe now of cellular to really have a place where you can go and be in the middle of the nowhere. And I watched your character in the middle of the nowhere, and I really kind of rel. I love that kind of feeling, but that's hard to find now. But I think in. In. In the 90s, you could still sort of hide out. How many people do you think are really hiding out in Alaska in the middle of nowhere?

[Adam Arkin]

I think Alaska is one. You can still kind of do it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Maybe with drones and everything now.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, yeah, you're right. I mean, you could track down anyone on the planet. There's no one. There's nowhere to hide. But you could definitely.

[Jeanine Turner]

I was so rich, I just kind of want to envelop myself in that sort of escapism sometimes.

[Richard Cummings]

It was a. It was another thing that. That I think you talked about the character being a place, but the location itself lent itself. I think for every actor that made the trip up there, it helped unplugging and making that trip and entering a part of the country that a lot of people hadn't spent a lot of time in. And it really was like going away to sort of freedom art camp, you know?

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, I always say they were like nar scenes. No Acting required. You know, like when you're out in the. In the. In a frozen tundra and you're supposed to be freezing, and you're actually freezing, it's like you don't. There's no thoughts. It's just I'm present, trying to, you know, survive.

[Jeanine Turner]

And also, there's an interesting element of being. You were incredibly scared of Adam at the beginning.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

And you wanted to, you know, Maggie came in and put the locks on. And then later you were entranced by him. You just thought you were happy. Fleischman was actually dancing at the end and gave Maggie a.

[Adam Arkin]

And why do you think that is? That's interesting, because I think that speaks to kind of the, you know, part of his evolution about a part of him opening. Because he was so disappointed when no one believed him that he saw Adam. And then when we go back there, which is such a sweet moment, we go back to find him and I try to prove it's you and Ed. Right? Yeah. And we. And we find a garlic press.

[Jeanine Turner]

Garlic press. I guess the mid show, like, I think there was something about a garlic press. And we find it.

[Adam Arkin]

Right. I mean, there's something the. Oh, it's. You know, I find it a very significant. And, you know, even though it's an accident, per Richard Cummings, that it was the last show, it sets up the future of the series in a great way. It just really kind of clarifies a lot of the themes. And in terms of Fleischman, it's the beginning, really, of him opening.

[Jeanine Turner]

He kind of accepts depths.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, the mystery.

[Adam Arkin]

You are a little bit.

[Jeanine Turner]

Sort of got a little bit excited.

[Adam Arkin]

Absolutely. And the mystery of life.

[Richard Cummings]

Don't you think he was also relieved that there was somebody in Sicily that was more. More irascible than he was.

[Adam Arkin]

Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, you're right.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's right.

[Richard Cummings]

Talk about.

[Adam Arkin]

This guy doesn't scream at me, I.

[Jeanine Turner]

Told you to quit talking. And then, of course, stop talking. Oh, my God. And, Richard, what about you? I mean, tell us more about your character development.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, I'll tell you something. You know, Adam, you mentioned that you and Josh had worked together, and he had something in his head and, you know, it formulated into what it became. Josh Brand is one of the most sensitive, intuitive individuals, creatively, that I've ever met. He really watches people and listens to people because he came into my audition when I read for this, and Megan Bramond, who was the casting director, if you guys remember, back then, I'd known for forever because she Worked with us when I done a movie with my friend Robert Townsend called Hollywood Shuffle, and Megan worked with us on that. So when I came in red and Josh sat in on my audition, and Megan said to me later on, josh doesn't sit in on people's auditions. It was one of those things. Again, he's in all of us. Josh Brand saw something in Eugene. Saw something in you, Rob obviously saw something in you, Adam. And saw something in me.

[Adam Arkin]

You're right. He was great at casting. I have to say. It was pretty rare that anyone showed up on that set that wasn't really interesting and right for their part.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I thank him often, even recently, I texted him again, I said, thank you for believing in me. You know, thank you for believing in me that I could portray this character. Because it was such a gift, you know, this show is such a gift.

[Rob Morrow]

Just to answer your question, Janine, he saw something in me that he felt and saw in Bernard.

[Jeanine Turner]

And.

[Rob Morrow]

I'm not sure what it exactly is, but he definitely, definitely saw that on. And I just enjoyed the idea of being someone who. This character who came into this space and truly was just accepted. And my connection in life unfolded in front of me, guys, and in front of everybody. Finding a brother that I didn't know I had and becoming friends and coming back, constantly coming back and, you know, being drawn to the place.

[Adam Arkin]

It's such a great conceit that the way you guys were connected, that you were so, you know, linked in such a deep way, that was just such a.

[Jeanine Turner]

Talking at the same time. I think when we're playing poker with John Coleman, the four of us were playing poker, and then you leave and you say the same thing at the same time, and you turn around at the same time. And really, I mean, I got it.

[Rob Morrow]

Reading it on the page. But that's why, again, I go back to, you know, Peter o'. Fallon. Him helping us understand that rhythm and that connection was really, really special.

[Adam Arkin]

Peter had a great, you know, he's. You know, Adam's like this as well as a director. It's like he has a great eye. They both have great eyes, but Peter has a great eye and also could speak the. Could talk the talk in terms of psychology of the characters. And so that combination, really, his episodes, Peter of Fallon's episodes stand out. Adam, do you. What. What season did you direct the episode?

[Richard Cummings]

I want to say season three, Family Feud. I think it was season three.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah. Because did you now that was, in fact, your directorial debut?

[Richard Cummings]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had, again, the previous Relationship on the other show was helpful in that I had been observing on A Year in the Life with a desire to direct. They let me shadow and go into post and. But then the show didn't have a long enough life for that to come to fruition. The credits kind of carried over into Northern and I kind of reintroduced my, my desire to do it. And once the show had been up and running for a while, they gave me a shot.

[Adam Arkin]

And how was that? I remember, I remember you being very comfortable, but also you were nervous. You didn't want to. I just think you didn't want to mess it up. Right. But. But you were, you kind of were pretty comfortable.

[Richard Cummings]

I, there were aspects of it that I was comfortable with. I was. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about it, but I had the rug pulled out from under me in terms of one key collaborative.

[Adam Arkin]

Relationship coming back to me. As soon as you said that, I.

[Richard Cummings]

Knew what you were talking about and I, I had a couple of days where I really had to navigate the fact that I had no help in an area where I really needed help. Being a first time director and sort of muscled through that. Once the problem, once people became aware of the problem, it was addressed. I didn't feel that I had the wherewithal again. Being a first time to director, being a first time director to address it myself. But. But it was addressed and then things got. Things definitely got easier after.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's so vague. You were all going to wonder.

[Richard Cummings]

I'm going to keep it vague because the people involved are still around and working and I don't need to, I don't need to make life any more. More difficult for anybody. But it was a really unfortunate first step to get off on with this person who I needed to be able to rely on and ultimately couldn't. But that aside, the response from the cast, everybody was really inclusive and supportive in Game and I owe the show and everybody connected with it a huge debt of gratitude because it's allowed me to keep pursuing another, another avenue of creativity that I really enjoy.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah. And I remember the episode turning out really well and for sure I knew we had fun doing it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, you know, I think it's a minefield walking into a series where actors are established in their roles. Episodic television. I think for directors that in a show that's been around for a couple years, that's a minefield. Very tricky because the actors know exactly what they want to do and they're like, well, we all respected and had worked with you. So. And we respected mostly most of the directors as well. But it's tricky business.

[Richard Cummings]

Hopefully back, you know, hopefully vice versa. Like I, I having been, you know, an on again, off again company member of that show, I knew everybody's familiarity with their role. I wasn't there to, you know, reinvent the wheel and you know, other than just conceptual ideas from the people that knew their character things to maybe try, I wasn't certainly reshaping anybody's vision of what they were playing, you know.

[Rob Morrow]

Right.

[Jeanine Turner]

And Richard, you're directing too. You've done a lot of directing. Talk to us, us about how much, how you got in. You were directing before.

[Rob Morrow]

I was directing before I. That's funny. Again, universe, bringing people together. I was living a double life when I was doing the show. I was acting, but I also had a production company here in la and we were shooting music videos and commercials and my partner, Carl Craig, when I.

[Adam Arkin]

Was up in Seattle, God rest in peace, Carl Craig.

[Rob Morrow]

And that's what I was gonna say. Fast forward to years later, about four years. What's about four years ago now, Rob.

[Adam Arkin]

That's about four years ago. Yeah. I had worked with him on a show and he was a great guy.

[Rob Morrow]

Rob was directing. Rob was directing by chance. Was directing a show. My ex partner was producing. And they got to spend. I don't know, you guys did nine episodes together or something?

[Adam Arkin]

We did, yeah. And he was just. Yeah, terrific guy and terrific producer. Really knew how to stretch a block.

[Rob Morrow]

Yes, he did. But, you know, I directed a bunch of music videos, directed commercials, theater. I just like the creative process. I just like working with folks. And like Rob mentioned, we did this charity event down at the theater here in LA back in August to raise money for the 988 suicide hotline. And it was based on Donny Hathaway, the singer. Donny Hathaway, Life loosely based.

[Adam Arkin]

And Richard did a beautiful job. He made something. He just made such a lovely night and we raised a lot of money and awareness. I didn't even know there was a 988 hotline.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, I, I don't think I knew that either. But there's something about actors and directing because I directed a short film later in Texas and I actually put my daughter in it. Sort of like a young Tatum o' Neill paper moon character. She was only about four or five. And she walked up to me, she goes, mommy, do you want me to cry a tear? Well, go for it. You know how. If you could manage to do that. But. And now I Want to direct. I've written a musical that I'm gonna step out. I was gonna star. I'm gonna star in it, but I'm stepping out to direct it. But there's. There's something about actors who've been on the scene for a lengthy period of time. We just kind of have a. An eye for things. And I learned a lot from you at Capella University. Learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, like your enrollment counselor, who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program. Plus, career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella. Edu.

[Adam Arkin]

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two factor authentication, strong passwords, and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it, and they might not be as careful. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second second for threats.

[Richard Cummings]

If your identity is stolen, they'll fix.

[Adam Arkin]

It, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for 40 off terms apply. I think, Adam, you can speak. Both you guys can speak to this. It's like there's something, you know, if you're. If you have the. The requisite, you know, if you. If you're bent toward being a director, having acted is really helpful because you understand, you know, I did a movie with that Martin Scorsese was acting in, and he was really nervous, you know, and so I could. Between takes, I could just get him going, and he would tell me all these stories. But I asked him at one point, I said, why are you doing this? Like, because he didn't. He didn't seem to love acting. He just was. And he said, I do it because I want to know what you guys go through. Right? And. Which was so cool. I thought, what. I mean, who does that?

[Jeanine Turner]

We used to always talk about the directors that were fresh out of USC films, film school, and they learned the technical aspects of directing, but they had no clue how to work with actors.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, that's what I'm getting at. That's why. What do you guys think about actor, as a rule, actor being directors?

[Rob Morrow]

I think it's. I think if somebody's really, really, like you said, if they've got the bend, if they've got the art to it, and it's not just something they want to do because somebody said, you should be directing, but if you've got it in you, I think it's. It's just having both sides of that coin is really, really, really helpful, because you know how to talk to folks, right? You know how to communicate with folks. You know how to get things out of folks. So I think it's really, really helpful.

[Jeanine Turner]

I always say I'm a frustrated cinematographer, and I learned it from our cameraman, David Fredericks.

[Adam Arkin]

Right.

[Jeanine Turner]

I was going to Italy to film Cliffhanger, and I purchased this Canon camera in the day was still. By the way, we need to talk about the. That Northern Exposure was filmed in film, and it's just gorgeous. I'm still a lover of film, but I had film in my camera and these interchangeable lenses. And David Fredericks, our cameraman, was sitting on the camera. He looked down at me and he said, remember, do you want to take a picture or make a picture? I was like, oh, yes. So I went all over Italy making pictures. So I relate to directing, obviously. There's the acting and all of that that I really enjoy. But also just the cinematic aspect is very exciting for me, the pictures.

[Adam Arkin]

Adam's a photographer, or he was anyway, you know, And I don't know about Richard, but they definitely. I studied photography as in my 20s, and it's what led me to directing, because you start. You have to tell a story. Like, I think what Dave was saying to you is, you have to tell a story in a picture, you know, and if you can tell a story in one frame, then you can do it in 24.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, it's a combo of working with actors and cinematography, wouldn't you say, Adam?

[Richard Cummings]

Editing.

[Jeanine Turner]

The editing process as well.

[Richard Cummings]

It's a vocabulary. All of it comes into play. And the more you do, the more you learn. Like, you're creating raw material for yourself to go into the editing room. And it's like shopping for good ingredients. You know, if you get home and that soup that you wanted to make doesn't quite turn out the way you wanted it to, you go back and say, like, next time I go to the store, I'm going to know what I got to pick up, right?

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jeanine Turner]

And you have. When you walk into episodic television, as a director, not only do you have to work with the actors who know their characters, but also the cinematographers there who's been on every episode. How is that working with cinematographers that are very established I always thought that dynamic was very interesting behind the scenes to watch a cinematographer with a director, you know, are they gonna. To work hand in hand or is there, you know, the cinematographer may want. He has to own his own.

[Adam Arkin]

It can be tricky. It can be tricky. I think you can. You know, I've walked on sets where as. As an unknown director and. And the DP will test me for a day or two. I think most of us, Adam, have gone through that, you know. You know, and you have to kind of, you know, you have to take over a moving. You have to take command of something that's already going and yet do it in a way that everyone still is, you know, participating with you.

[Jeanine Turner]

I had to do that on my directorial debut. I had a lot of crew members from Walker, Texas Ranger. They'd never had a female director before. So I was out there having to, you know, carry. Carry the lights with them and just kind of prove that I could. I own my space, that I had the right to be there. But is it tricky, guys, you know, going in and working with these cinematographers that are established in episodic television?

[Richard Cummings]

It can be. It can be. I think it requires a certain level of. It requires a combination of, I think, confidence and also putting your ego to one side and sussing out who it is you're working with. But I try to make it very clear that I'm not there again, to reinvent the wheel. If you come on as a guest director on a show that's been established, you're not there to change the tone or go in and suggest that they start shooting things or lighting things in an entirely different way. That being said, I also want to feel that I have a certain amount of expressive flexibility in terms of shot design. And finding a way that my ideas can be woven into the established fabric of the show is part of the job. More often than not, it's gone extraordinarily well for me because I make it really clear to not only the DPs, but the crew in general that I want what they have. I want their input, I want their suggestions. I can't guarantee I'm always going to implement every idea that anybody has, but I want to. I want to. I want people to be engaged and I want them to feel like their love, their expertise and experience is something that is not only encouraged, but absolutely necessary to the process.

[Jeanine Turner]

Collaboration. Right.

[Richard Cummings]

If you're approaching it that way, more often than not, it's. It's pretty rare that you're going to have problems with People.

[Adam Arkin]

And I felt that way. I worked with Richard recently, and there was a. It was a staged benefit, but we had. There was a filmed component, and he and I had to shoot a couple scenes, and it was just he and I and a camera, and it was such a lovely day, you know, just collaborating. You know, it's like we both were throwing out what. You know, whatever worked, worked, and which I. You know, that's basically my motto. It's like, I don't care who has the idea, as long as it's the best one. You know, we'll go with it. And you. You have that same approach that I noticed.

[Jeanine Turner]

Richard, what about locations? Locations are such a big part of it, too, wouldn't you?

[Rob Morrow]

That's what I was saying. Locations. My first, I mean, light bulb going off moment was when we were out in the mountains, and I'm like, looking around after I, you know, then. But then seeing it on screen, I go, part of what made Northern really, really special is the location. Yeah, it was. It was kind of like one of the first shows, I think, if I can. If I'm remembering this correctly, not obviously on the scale of Game of Thrones, but like, Game of Thrones was a. Almost a movie. Every episode.

[Adam Arkin]

Absolutely.

[Rob Morrow]

Northern was kind of a small movie.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, that's the way the guys wanted. I mean, they. They set out. You know, they were. They were inspired by this guy, Bill Forsythe, who was making some interesting independent movies back at the time. Local hero, big. You know, that was.

[Rob Morrow]

Favorite movies.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah. Fish out of Water Story and. And Gregory's Girl and. And some really fun movies. But, you know, they're. They wanted to try to make an independent movie each. Each week and. And they fought for it, you know, and they were, you know, again, as Janine was saying, the, you know, one of the pluses was that because we were a summer series and nobody was taking us seriously or caring about what we were doing, they were able to get away with a lot of stuff.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's just like talking about young so much.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah. Like, who does that?

[Rob Morrow]

Right, right, right.

[Adam Arkin]

And then put them on screen and.

[Jeanine Turner]

Then he's driving a truck.

[Rob Morrow]

Yes, exactly. Put them on screen.

[Richard Cummings]

Being under the radar is a great place to be for a show that's. That's establishing itself.

[Adam Arkin]

Absolutely.

[Richard Cummings]

Because they leave you alone.

[Adam Arkin]

You're right. And it's hard nowadays. Everything's so scrutinized and. And, you know, back then, they didn't even. Summer series was a very rare thing. So now it's like, it's all the schedules all year round. So if they're stepping up with a pay with, with, with the checkbook, you know, it's hard to get away with anything.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, we could do things like Maggie o' Connell smoked. She drank.

[Adam Arkin]

Did she smoke?

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, she smoked right when, when Rick got hit by the satellite. And you know, you come, she's smoking all these cigarettes and drinking and it was, was just a great, great character.

[Adam Arkin]

Right.

[Jeanine Turner]

And then I remember Matt Nadella coming up to me and saying, you know, you might, we might have to cool it with the drinking and the smoking. I'm like, why? It's so cool.

[Adam Arkin]

The show probably became a hit then.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, yeah, just like they came up to me and said, yeah, anyway, I won't tell you what they said to me right now. We won't go there.

[Adam Arkin]

But, but any other.

[Rob Morrow]

You mentioned Matt Nadella. It's funny you mentioned Matt. Matt, because Matt was the one who came on set when we were having that laughing.

[Adam Arkin]

Absolutely.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, yes. He would do that to us.

[Rob Morrow]

And he, he literally stood there with his arms crossed like, you're in trouble.

[Jeanine Turner]

I got that saying.

[Richard Cummings]

It was Nick Mark was the director of that episode, right?

[Adam Arkin]

Oh, yes.

[Richard Cummings]

It was Nick who got so, so angry.

[Jeanine Turner]

All right, you were asking which episode?

[Adam Arkin]

The one that he, that we were laughing. That we were all laughing.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, it wasn't this one?

[Adam Arkin]

No, no.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick Mark, I think also did. When Rick came back as a dog.

[Adam Arkin]

He did a few, for sure. He was a good guy.

[Rob Morrow]

He did a few.

[Richard Cummings]

You were talking earlier about the relationship between directors and cinematographers, and there's a great anecdote about a first time director working with an established dp. And he was watching the DP light the scene that they had just rehearsed. And he goes over to the DP at a certain point he goes, you know, everything, everything looks good, but. But I have to ask it, you know, just to do due diligence here. Like, what is, like what's the source of all the lighting supposed to be in this, in this set? Like, where is the light coming from? And the DP turns around and says, the same place the music's coming from.

[Jeanine Turner]

And you know, speaking, speaking of lighting, I am not a fan of what's happening today in cinematography. I can't tell you how many movies I've worked on recently. Big movies like Patsy, a movie about Patsy Cline. I portrayed Patsy Cline's mother, you know, whatnot. And they're like, oh, we're just gonna light it and post. And we're walking around in the dark. I mean, we're in this, like, living room, and it's dark, and I can't really see anybody. Goes, yeah, we're just gonna go light it and post. I'm like, oh, okay. And then when they do, it just becomes this kind of banal sort of everything lit. And then there's this new. There's this 3D business they're doing, right, where every. I don't really even know that I even understand it, but everything is so lit. It's like we're back to the big glaring lights of the 1940s, because they want to have everything in the background lit. So there doesn't seem to be any sort of Rembrandt sort of. Of touches. Are y'. All. You know what I'm talking about.

[Adam Arkin]

I see a lot of great. I know what you're talking about, but I also see a lot of great cinematography going on at tv. I mean, and that.

[Jeanine Turner]

But you understand some of these other ones, there's just. Everything's just.

[Adam Arkin]

I think you're right. You're probably gonna.

[Jeanine Turner]

It has no character with AI you'll.

[Adam Arkin]

Probably see more and more of that where, you know, and it ends up becoming a unit. It can become a uniformed, homogenized aesthetic, I guess.

[Jeanine Turner]

There you go. It's a uniform, homogenized aesthetic.

[Adam Arkin]

Right.

[Richard Cummings]

The opposite of Northern Exposure.

[Adam Arkin]

The opposite of Northern Exposure.

[Jeanine Turner]

We were not a uniformed Adam.

[Adam Arkin]

Do you shoot anything on film ever, anywhere?

[Richard Cummings]

There was a section of an episode of Sugar This. This show on Apple that we did that involved Colin Farrell as a. As a private detective who's investigating a lot, kind of Chinatown a little bit. This legendary film producer, sort of like a John Huston character. And there's a film retrospective in the middle of the episode where they feature a movie that this guy made in the. In the 50s. And Richard Ratkowski, the DP that was working with me on that, pitched the idea of shooting the movie within the show on film, to give it that quality. And it freaked everybody at Apple out. They were coming up with all sorts of reasons why it wouldn't work, and we couldn't do it. And Richard is knowledgeable enough that he was able to put it on paper how it would work. And it did. It provided a really striking, contrasting look to the rest of the show. Not that the rest of the show didn't look great, but. But you could really sense it automatically felt of a different time and era.

[Adam Arkin]

But in terms of what Janine was just saying, you know, I feel like most if I think of the stuff that. Of years recently that I've watched, that I've loved. They seem really well lit and, you know, some Kia Scara.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I don't know if work with.

[Richard Cummings]

Some great, great dps. Yeah, yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

If I see one more shot, though, of all the light coming through the windows and the actors. If you're the actor that happens to be receiving the light coming from the window. You know what I mean? You're lit. If your back is to the window, you're completely dark. I see that all the time, especially in these period pieces where it's. It's. I mean, I'm not saying there's not great cinematography out there, but there is this news sort of way. I get it, you're saying it's not the. Like, let me turn on. On the lamps and create a feel in the room and. And Adam and Richard, I know we have to close up here, but do you prefer film or this high def? I will just say. I'll go on record saying, high def is not a woman's friend at all. I really. And, And. But I looked at. I looked at this episode in particular, and it was so beautiful. And it just dawned on me. I'm like, oh, it was film. What do y' all prefer?

[Rob Morrow]

There's a big difference between vinyl and digital, and I think there's a big difference between digital takes and film. It's just. It's just deeper, it's warmer, it breathes to me. Digital doesn't breathe.

[Richard Cummings]

Agreed. I think there are. There are ways really good DPs just as really good. Sound engineers can. Can take digital recording and nudge it closer to an analog feel. And there's certainly DPs that know how to use light in a digital setting that gives it more depth and more warmth. But it's pretty hard to match the results of film. The other thing about shooting on film, it sounds odd to say, but it's a precious commodity. It's limited. And so there's a kind of need to be on point when you're. When you're shooting on film, that digital is just. It's just, you know, micro bits and you can roll forever. And it can lend a kind of casual approach to everything. That sometimes knowing that you're working with limited resources can just sharpen everybody in a way.

[Adam Arkin]

I agree.

[Rob Morrow]

Transition to multiple cameras. Shooting with multiple cameras and, you know, multiple monitors.

[Jeanine Turner]

And that's not a woman's friend either. You know, I was on Friday Night Lights, and they didn't rehearse I did a season on that show. They didn't rehearse. And you walked down, and there were three cameramen looking like Poltergeist that just followed you around. And there were really no lights or anything. It was just sort of, go and do it.

[Adam Arkin]

Peter Berg told me they shot an episode. They used to shoot that show so fast because they didn't rehearse, as you know, they would just. They would take a little company. They'd show up with, they jump out of the van, they'd give the actors basic marks, and they start shooting with three cameras, and they'd get in the van and go to the next location. He told me they shot an episode in three and a half days. And he came down to the crew and chastised his, you know, the heads of his department saying, don't ever do that again, because they're gonna. If we can do it in three and a half days, they're gonna make us do it in three and a half days.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I had a big. I had a big crying scene. And that's hard to get to do that quickly.

[Adam Arkin]

Right.

[Rob Morrow]

You're right.

[Adam Arkin]

You have to be on your. But I guess to Adam's point, I mean, like, in film, you have to be.

[Jeanine Turner]

Improvisation can be fun, though. I mean, and. But there's some actors that do it really well and some actors who don't, you can tell that they're not on their game.

[Adam Arkin]

But I'll say this. In Plains Devil's Advocates, there are a lot of cool things about digital photography that really make life easy and things you can do and post and ways to manipulate it. And as Adam said, if you have someone who knows what they're doing, you can make it look pretty good. And it's getting better and better.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I like, they can go in and take your wrinkles out.

[Adam Arkin]

Absolutely. In the bags of your eye.

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm like, how does. What's her name? Oh, the Cate Blanchett. Cate Blanchett. Is it Cate Blanchett?

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm like, wait, she's so flawless. What happened here? What happened here? And then I realized, you know, now that they're doing all these movies where De Niro is a. Such suddenly 17 years of age, you know, they can just go in and make everybody young again.

[Adam Arkin]

I'm like, oh, there's. There's a silver lining. All right, so we got to wrap it up. Hey, guys, anything. Wait, but anything. Any memories or anything you want to share before we wind it up. And. Yeah, we'd love to have you Back in future episodes, if you're willing.

[Richard Cummings]

First of all, I would love to come back. And if we were to come back, I'd love to come back with Richard and see if we could get. Get Valerie involved as well.

[Adam Arkin]

We're definitely going to reach out to.

[Rob Morrow]

Her and laugh for an hour.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yes.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, we can laugh and get in trouble. The three of us are laughing. Janino, yell at us.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, I'll be the Matt Nadella.

[Rob Morrow]

There you go.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, thank you, guys.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, I'd love to come back. Absolutely.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah.

[Adam Arkin]

You guys. You guys are great. I'm so happy that both of you are doing such cool things in the world and. And that I get to see you and hang out with you, albeit not enough. But when I do, I'm all. My heart's always filled, so.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I'm going to be. We're going to be in LA actually doing some press, so maybe we could do a podcast all in the same room in Los Angeles. That'd be fun, for sure. Wouldn't that be fun?

[Adam Arkin]

All right, guys, many thanks.

[Jeanine Turner]

Thank you, guys.

[Richard Cummings]

I want to play some music with you at some point. I'm. I'm a. A wannabe drummer.

[Adam Arkin]

I know you are. We keep. Well, we were at a couple parties, I think. I think we tried to get. Didn't we try to get you to play? Or did you play?

[Richard Cummings]

I don't know if I did or not.

[Adam Arkin]

All right, well, next one.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I sing now, too. You know, Broadway music.

[Adam Arkin]

You sing. You have a nice voice.

[Jeanine Turner]

So we'll have to sing together. Oh, I have an idea of what I want to do. Should I tell you now? In closing, should I tell you? I've had this idea forever. I want to do a Northern Exposure Christmas album where all of us sing. Each one of us sings a Christmas song.

[Adam Arkin]

What about the Jews?

[Jeanine Turner]

Barbara Streisand did a Christmas. You can do Jingle Bell.

[Adam Arkin]

You know how to handle that jingle.

[Jeanine Turner]

There are a lot of songs, like.

[Adam Arkin]

They're all written.

[Jeanine Turner]

The duet Baby, It's Cold Outside.

[Adam Arkin]

Right?

[Jeanine Turner]

You know?

[Adam Arkin]

Absolutely.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. Okay.

[Adam Arkin]

We could call it a holiday album. How about that?

[Jeanine Turner]

There you go. Okay. Holiday. But Barbara Streisand did it, so as we. Barbara did it.

[Rob Morrow]

You can do it.

[Adam Arkin]

Sign off.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yes. Thank you. He's looking at me. No, no, I'm saying as we sign off. Yes, sir. Oh, okay. I'm gonna do the sign off now. All right. Well, this has been fun.

[Rob Morrow]

Great to see and great to see you guys.

[Jeanine Turner]

Great. Great seeing you, Adam and Richard and Rob. It was a lot of fun. And we look forward to seeing you. Yeah, wonderful to see you. We look forward to next week. And you can come back. And. And right now, we're gonna sign off with o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Adam Arkin]

Actually, it should probably be Fleischmann. O', Connell, I think.

[Jeanine Turner]

And your dream is Fleischmann. Go through and Disclosure is a production.

[Adam Arkin]

With Evergreen podcasts and executive produced by.

[Jeanine Turner]

Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.