S2E4: “What I Did For Love” with Martin Bruestle

Summary

Northern Disclosure Podcast Summary

Episode: Season 2, Episode 4 - “What I Did For Love”
Guest: Martin Bruestle
Release Date: August 5, 2025
Podcast: Northern Disclosure by Evergreen Podcasts

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Introduction

In Season 2, Episode 4 of Northern Disclosure, hosts Rob Morrow and Jeanine Turner delve deep into the intricacies of the Northern Exposure episode titled “What I Did For Love.” This episode features a special guest, Martin Bruestle, an associate producer whose contributions went far beyond his title. Together, they explore behind-the-scenes stories, personal anecdotes, and the creative processes that made Northern Exposure a beloved classic.

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Episode Plot Overview

Rob and Jeanine begin by providing a concise synopsis of “What I Did For Love”:

Rob Morrow [02:00]: “Joel finally has a chance to return home for two weeks back to New York. He gets a substitute doctor, David Ginsburg, whom Joel instantly dislikes and becomes suspicious of. Maggie shares her premonition that Joel’s flight back home might be fatal, adding layers of tension and mystery to the storyline.”

Jeanine adds her perspective on the episode’s entertainment value:

Jeanine Turner [03:22]: “I found it entertaining and just such a joy as always. The dialogue was top-notch, and the interactions between characters were incredibly fun.”

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Guest Introduction: Martin Bruestle

Martin Bruestle joins the conversation to shed light on his role and experiences:

Martin Bruestle [14:37]: “I’m trying to write and create my own things. I’ve written one screenplay for a movie, and it’s much harder to find representation than it is to actually write the project.”

He elaborates on his journey to becoming an associate producer on Northern Exposure, highlighting the importance of networking and mentorship in the industry.

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Production Insights

Martin discusses the unique approach Northern Exposure took with its music:

Martin Bruestle [16:50]: “Josh was really involved with the music on the show. He created a universe where Chris in the Morning could play anything he wanted, embracing an aggressively eclectic mix from opera to Leonard Skynyrd to Debussy.”

Jeanine and Rob commend the show's musical diversity and its impact on storytelling.

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Technical Aspects: Sound Design and Looping

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the technical elements that contributed to the show's distinctive feel:

• Music Licensing:
  Martin shares challenges faced with music licensing, especially regarding the transition from DVDs to streaming platforms.

  Martin Bruce Lee [19:01]: “When they first released on DVD, they stripped out all of the licensed music. Now, with Amazon Prime, most of the original music has been restored, which is fantastic.”

• Sound Design:
  Detailed insights into the creation of the show’s ambient sounds, including recording local wildlife to enhance authenticity.

  Martin Bruce Lee [47:23]: “We did our sound and Bill Angarola was the architect of the sound work. I even recorded frogs from my parents' house in Minnesota to add to the Northern Exposure soundscape.”

• Looping Process:
  Jeanine and Rob discuss the intensive looping sessions required to perfect dialogue, often spending hours in recording studios to match on-set performances.

  Jeanine Turner [31:29]: “There was a particular line like, 'Sounds just like Lucy and Charlie Brown.' I don't remember which line.”

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Reflections and Memories

The hosts and Martin reminisce about memorable moments and the collaborative spirit that defined the production:

• Collaborative Passion:
  Emphasis on the collective care and passion everyone brought to the show, contributing to its lasting legacy.

  Martin Bruce Lee [62:28]: “Everyone really brought something to the table on Northern Exposure. The writing, the acting, the scenery—all collided to create this magic.”

• Directing Experiences:
  Martin recounts his experiences directing episodes, both on Northern Exposure and The Sopranos.

  Martin Bruce Lee [51:36]: “I directed an episode where we had to fix a last-minute editing error with Maggie’s cape. It showcased our rapid problem-solving skills.”

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Themes Explored: Mortality and Fate

A deep exploration of how the episode and the series handle profound themes:

• Mortality:
  The episode centers around premonitions and fears of death, particularly focusing on Maggie’s anxiety about Joel’s safety.

  Rob Morrow [40:42]: “Death is dealt with all the time, but the irony is that it’s portrayed in such a happy, quirky, and funny way.”

• Fate vs. Free Will:
  Discussions on the philosophical debates within the show about destiny and whether characters can alter their predetermined paths.

  Jeanine Turner [55:34]: “No matter what, you change the flight. It’s fascinating how fate is such a central discussion.”

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Notable Quotes

• Rob Morrow [01:52]: “Jeanine, how you doing today?”
• Jeanine Turner [03:22]: “I found it entertaining and just such a joy as always.”
• Martin Bruestle [16:40]: “Associate producers supervise all of the post-production—from cut on the set to final tape delivery.”
• Rob Morrow [35:19]: “Audiences are craving shows that offer a non-judgmental universe.”

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with heartfelt reflections on the enduring charm of Northern Exposure and the collaborative efforts that made it a standout series. Martin Bruestle’s insights provide a deeper appreciation for the behind-the-scenes craftsmanship, particularly in music and sound design. Hosts Rob Morrow and Jeanine Turner express gratitude towards Martin, emphasizing the familial bonds formed during the show's production.

Martin Bruce Lee [63:26]: “Everyone wanted to bring something to the project. There was a collective care for what we were creating.”

Rob and Jeanine invite Martin to return for future episodes, underscoring the cherished relationships that continue to keep the magic of Northern Exposure alive.

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Key Takeaways

• The significance of eclectic music choices in enhancing the storytelling of Northern Exposure.
• The intricate process of sound design and dialogue looping that maintained the show's authenticity.
• Personal anecdotes highlighting the collaborative and passionate environment among the cast and crew.
• Exploration of deep themes like mortality and fate presented through quirky and heartfelt narratives.

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For those who haven’t listened to this episode, this summary offers a comprehensive glimpse into the rich discussions and nostalgic insights shared by the hosts and their esteemed guest, Martin Bruestle.

Transcript

[Rob Morrow]

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[Martin Bruce Lee]

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[Rob Morrow]

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[Martin Bruce Lee]

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[Rob Morrow]

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[Martin Bruce Lee]

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[Jeanine Turner]

Mom and dad, the school supplies you buy me this year will mostly end up in my mouth. Maybe shop low prices for school at Amazon so I don't eat up all your money, just something to chew on. Amazon. Spend less, smile more.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, hello. Welcome back to Northern Disclosure, the podcast for Northern Exposure. I'm Rob Morrow and my co host, Jeanine Turner. Looking beautiful as always. Very summery and fresh. And she's coming to you from Texas. I'm coming to you from California. And we have a great guest. I was so excited when I heard that this man was going to show up. His name is Martin Bruce Lee and he was technically called an associate producer on the show, but he was so much more than that. And we'll get into that. And he's just a great guy and we have a lot of great memories of working with him and we'll get into all that. Jeanine, how you doing today?

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm fine, thank you very much. Nice to be with you. Rob Morrow, also looking equally as fresh and summery and handsome.

[Rob Morrow]

Thank you.

[Jeanine Turner]

Which Maggie o' Connell was not about to admit to you in this particular episode.

[Rob Morrow]

But by the way, that in a minute. Well, in this episode, which is called what I Did For Love, it's season two, episode four. You look incredibly hot in these fantasy sequences. It's. You look so good. I remember when I watched it the other day, I just was startled with the first image. You just look so beautiful in that red dress and that different. It's in a dream sequence. But I'm going to quickly tell the plot of the episode because the audience tends to like that. So for those of you who are listening on, on where you get your podcasts, you can watch us also on the YouTub YouTube channel, which is called Northern Disclosure. Or you can listen, your choice. But then you get to see Janine, so that's a plus. So here's the plot of. Of what I Did for Love. It's Joel finally has a chance to return home for two weeks back to New York. He gets a substitute doctor, fellow Jewish New Yorker David Ginsburg. Joel instantly takes a growing dislike to him. And is suspicious. Maggie tells only Chris and him about her premonition that the flight back would be fatal for Joel. Maurice. Maurice's intimate astronaut groupie, Ingrid Klotchner, consults Joel about the man's sleep breathing disorder, while he is always refused and he always refuses a medical examination. So that's the basic plot. It's a. We have any thoughts about this episode? I know. I think you liked it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, yeah. I have all my notes here. I, I, I, I did. I liked it. I found it entertaining and just such a joy as always. I don't know, perhaps I'm biased, but the dialogue. No, not at all. I can separate. I can separate. But the, I thought once again, the line. The, the writing was top notch. These, when in the openings, the tango. First of all, we have to talk to Martin, who, who is in charge in, you know, head of production with all the music. We'll get back to that. But the tango music, the, the ability to dress up at the beginning. But I love the dialogue and, and the energy where Maggie just. Even when, when you and I are in the, the store together and Ruthan's store and we have this tit and tat back and forth, and I say, I'm sorry, Fleischman. I just always have this Pavlon. Pavloni. I can say it. Pavlonian. What is it? Pav.

[Rob Morrow]

Pavlonian.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, Pavlonian response. I always think you're sneaky, duplicitous, self serving. And I always think you have a hidden agenda. I mean, that writing is just so much fun. And when I walked out the door and you're holding the door for me, and I look at you as if I'm suspicious about why you're holding the door. It was those type of fun ban. The banter back and forth, I thought was just a lot of fun. And then Chris comes in, merry go round of time, the dioramas. You get to see all of Maggie's dead boyfriends.

[Rob Morrow]

That's pretty out there. Those dioramas. I mean, that's just such an interesting, weird, you know, kind of tribute to. Well, well, tell them. Tell it. Tell the audience who doesn't know. I assume most of them know. But the history of you and, and men.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, yeah, well, Maggie. I think the joke is Maggie's tougher and smarter than all of her boyfriends. And so they all do silly things like choke on sushi or go to a mountain. When he'd written a book about the moun. My misgivings and decides to take a nap and freezes on the glacier. So it's all these silly things that happen, but she gets blamed for all of it. She's incredibly neurotic about it, but instead of she. She thought scrapbooks were silly. So she builds these little models of each of their lives and what they love. Like one loved sushi, one loved the snow in the mountains. And they're made out of crayons, melted crayons. And we talk about it in the show for the first time. And they're all wearing those little fedora hats which symbolized death, which you had on in the dream. So she's freaked out.

[Rob Morrow]

And it's also interesting. It's the first time, I think we, they. They set up and tease the origin story of the town of Sicily. And that was founded in 1932 by Sicily and Rosalind. And so that becomes a kind of motif that runs through the series. And eventually we get to see that we do a whole episode where we go back to the. The origins of the town, which is a great episode as far as I'm concerned. I want to say that this was written by Ellen Herman and directed by Steve Robman. Steve was not, didn't, didn't direct anymore. He just directed that one. But he did a good job.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, he did. I remember him. I remember Steve. I thought he did a really good job. You know, the shots through the, through the, through the car and the dolly shots. And when Ed wants to talk to you, he, you know, he zoomed in very. From far back close into you, and you're talking in the bar. Um, I have to say, I got a big kick out of your repartee with Dave, the doctor who was going to replace you. I thought he did an excellent job and I thought you were hilarious. Didn't you like those moments?

[Rob Morrow]

He was really good. Yeah. That was Leo Getter.

[Jeanine Turner]

Leo Getter Ginsburg. Ed says, oh, well, he's, he's a really good doctor. And I wrote the line down. And you say, well, how do you know he's a really good doctor? And he says, well, you know, he's from New York and he's Jewish. You're like, he's not Jewish. But I also thought if you looked at the peripherals of the show, there was a dog in, I mean, a horse in the background. The dog jumped on you. There were small kids in the town playing with the snow, which had to have been real. I remember. I know the audience likes to hear behind the scenes things, but the very first eight we did in the summer in the Pacific Northwest. And I think we went back about January of 1991 then and it really was cold. It really was. That was real snow all around Roslyn there. And it was very, very picturesque, I thought. Do you remember standing around those heat, those heat those fire things and we would hold our. Rub our hands together because we were working late in the night sometimes. It was just so incredibly cold. You remember that?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, they were these gas fueled heaters that, that would put out in the middle of the street for us to stand around. And whenever a guest would show up, you know, inevitably someone would stand too close to it with their plastic parker. And it would me someone would smell, you know, burning plastic and look around and it would always be like some studio executive visiting from universities.

[Jeanine Turner]

Right. And one, anytime I had a visitor after eight hours, they'd say, oh great, when are we going home? I said, oh no, it's not an eight hour day here. It's like a 12 or 14 hour day around here. You know what's funny, Rob, is I think we want to bring our special guest in. But I, I think sometimes you sound like Woody Allen. Okay. And then do you, you want to take three guesses who I think sometimes I sound like? It's not an actress. It's not, it's not a. I'll give you a hint. It's not a living person. It's a.

[Rob Morrow]

I don't have a clue. Go ahead.

[Jeanine Turner]

I think sometimes I sound like Lucy in Peanuts. Charlie Brown.

[Rob Morrow]

That's so funny.

[Jeanine Turner]

There was a particular line like. Sounds just like Lucy and Charlie Brown. I don't remember which line.

[Rob Morrow]

That's funny because Joel and. Joel and Maggie have a little Lucy and, and Charlie Brown.

[Jeanine Turner]

Right? Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

I thought that was, that was really funny. And I loved all the repartee between us. I did love the flashbacks. And you get on the plane and I have a parachute and I, I have a parachute to jump out. And I have a question that might be interesting for our viewers. When you had to do that, like you're falling through the sky and the airport in the airplane, how did you film that? Because I wasn't there when you did that.

[Rob Morrow]

I do not remember, but I must have been. Either I was on a black floor, just kind of like a, like a, A turtle on my back, just moving my arms and limbs, or they suspended me and were hanging, which I think probably would have been too much for. We did all things kind of poor man's process back then. So my guess is I was on either Green floor or a black floor and. And just moving. And then they. They. Because the animation wasn't that great, but it was effective.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

But.

[Rob Morrow]

But it's interesting, those dream sequences. First of all, I think that's where Steve Rodman distinguished himself. They were really beautifully done. And that one where I'm in black and white and everyone else is in color. Did you catch that?

[Jeanine Turner]

I know I wrote that down. When they're doing the Jimmy Stewart. If you weren't in the town. That was a great kind of push in shot on Ed to there. But yes. And they're all singing and cheering and singing a Broadway tune. What tune was that? Martin can tell us.

[Rob Morrow]

But what's fascinating is that.

[Jeanine Turner]

But you were in black and white and everybody else was in color. How'd they do that? We're talking.

[Rob Morrow]

I think it was kind of rotoscoped. Martin probably will know. But it's expensive. And that's why I think it was so short back then. It cost a fortune. Now. You could do it with a.

[Jeanine Turner]

And we had no green screens back then either.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. But the thing that interesting about that, the next. The one where you talk about you're a stewardess with a parachute in the dream sequence, that's when I'm having the dream sequence. It's like your dream until then. And then we have the same dream, which is always interesting. That kind of collective unconscious Jungian thing that. That weaves throughout the.

[Jeanine Turner]

The show, I think plays subconscious of energies. And you know, I want to talk to Martin about this because I think Brahms Lullaby was playing in your dream on the airplane, which I thought was really a great. But I have to tell you, I thought it was hilarious too. When Dave, the other doctor was singing I'm a Little Teapot with the. With the young act, with the young kids and how. And I cannot. I can't. We cannot move on until we talk about Mar. Hilarious. Elaine's, you know, hilarious expressions with her crush on David and getting the biggest kick out of your jealousy. And every shot like behind. Behind Dave. Right by Dave. Did you catch that?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, I did. For sure. It was great.

[Jeanine Turner]

Her reactions were classic. But once again, I thought the writing was. Was amazing. The whole town hall knowing about Maggie's dreams.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, that's a great moment that everyone knows Maggie's. That Chris asks the town who knows about Maggie's premon every or her dream. And everyone raised their hand. They made me tell them.

[Jeanine Turner]

But you know, that. That again, I was thinking about the show just 2 secs before we. We bring in Our special guest. You know what? You know what's interesting, Rob? In the show, everyone is out their walk, they're in the neighborhood, they're walking, they're out and about. They're in this small town. That's why they run into each other all the time. That's why they have all those discussions. Now everyone's inside. You know, they got their tv, they have their social media. But this is, I think, what people are missing. People enjoy the show so much. But, you know, I thought about it. Maggie's always running into you because we were out and about. There was no insight about that. And I'll tell you one great. That whole repartee between the two of us when you come and you say, well, you know, are you do. You were concerned about me? Actually, I think we're outside on the street. Wait, you were concerned about me and Maggie, man, she didn't give you anything, did she? But I think it was because she was so worried about killing you that that was probably. But she says, I'm concerned. He goes, you're concerned. She goes, you know what I'd have for any generic. I have a generic personal concern that I would have for any living creature. I mean, she wasn't.

[Rob Morrow]

But it's interesting, at the end of the show, you have this kind of conscious awareness of maybe there is some more going on. And it's interesting how so much of the unconscious works its way into the conscious with these characters. You know, Maggie doesn't know she have these feelings to Joel until she has this premonition. And she has to work out why, you know, it's a good show for you and for Maggie, how she feels.

[Jeanine Turner]

It was a good show. And the private moment, we call those private moments, when she put the cassette tape, which is rather hilarious, too. Martin can tell us what song that was. But then when I'm dancing around, I've. You could finally see Maggie privately what she really thought, which was a great sort of tease.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, let's bring Martin in. He. Yeah, this is Martin Bruce Lee. He is a great guy and a super talent. And he went on to do the same thing he did on Northern Exposure and then and more on the Sopranos. And so he. He really is instrumental in making both those shows stand out. So, Martin, how you doing?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Good morning. Good afternoon. How are you?

[Rob Morrow]

So good to see you.

[Jeanine Turner]

I know we're talking about. Martin lives close to me. I'm so excited we're going to get together.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

We're fellow Texans now. Yes, you can live anywhere now. We've been bouncing all around the world, haven't we?

[Jeanine Turner]

Yes.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Through technology or reality?

[Rob Morrow]

Are you doing. Are you working from. Are you still producing? Is that what you still do or.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

No, I'm. I'm. Well, I'm trying to write and create my own things. I've written one screenplay for a movie, and I found out it's much harder to find representation in management than it is to actually write the project, you know, so I'm trying to create some of my own things. But just saying goodbye to both of my parents in the last few years, One died of cancer and one died of Parkinson's disease. So said goodbye to them and just, you know, just living.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

So, Martin, just to kind of go. Just to get the audience up to speed, how did you. What was your background? How did you come to be involved in Northern Exposure?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, I was working for three years, the first three years on 30 something as the post production coordinator and shadowing the associate producer. I wanted to be an associate producer, but they already had an associate producer on 30something. Cheryl Block called Ellen Pressman, my boss on 30something. And I got recommended for the job. And also Josh was friends with his friends with Marshall herskovitz, who created 30something.

[Rob Morrow]

All of these connections, like Cheryl Block was. It was one of our producers and she was also. Was she on 30 something?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

No, but she called 30 something because I don't know what her. The, you know, start of the call. But she called the producer, Ellen Pressman on 30something. And then I was recommended for the job. I remember Ellen said, he hasn't been an associate producer, but he. He's ready to be one.

[Rob Morrow]

How did they define that then? Associate producer. What did that mean?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Associate producers is the producer who supervises all of the post production. So I usually say from the time they say cut on the set until the time the tape is delivered to the network. So you're supervising, you know, super organizational supervision of the editors, the music, composing the titles, the color correction, the delivery of the final cut to the network.

[Rob Morrow]

But it seemed like you eventually kind of specialized or found your specific talents in music placement. No, I did well.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

You know, when I went on the interview for the job with Cheryl Block and Matthew Nodela, they told me, explain the show that Josh wanted to you, how Josh wanted to use music. And, you know, Josh was really. Josh is the creator of the show and really the person who created this universe and he wanted to use all kinds of music. He wanted. They explained the concept of Chris in the Morning and being a philosopher and you know, Josh really created a playground for me to thrive in. I love music my whole life. And, you know, he created a world where Chris in the Morning could play anything he wanted. And we embraced the idea of being aggressively eclectic. So one minute you could have an opera plane, and the next minute you'd have Leonard Skynyrd playing, and the next minute you'd have Debussy playing or, you know, there was. There were no rules. And at the time, radio had become so fragmented in America of, you know, you know, these niche little charts. If you look at billboard in, like, 1990, there's the modern rock tracks.

[Jeanine Turner]

Sinead O'. Connor. We kept talking about Sinead O' Connor in the show, actually.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, yeah, she was. She was in the. And the. That was a cold. That was a song that Josh found. It's. You Do Something to Me. It's a Cole Porter song. It was from a Cole Porter tribute album.

[Jeanine Turner]

The one I danced to at the end. Was that Sinead o' Connor singing that?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, it is. It is. Now, when you guys watch the shows, are you watching Amazon prime versions or you have old tapes or whatever?

[Jeanine Turner]

Amazon prime version?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, I actually have a hard drive with all the episodes. So is that. Is the music different on Amazon Prime?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, you know, that's something that. That, you know, not to jump forward into the world of DVDs, but the music exists. Do you want to talk about that now or standpoint?

[Jeanine Turner]

I think. I think I want to. We should stay positively about it. You know, I think that the music. I know that it's. There were some edits that had to be made, but. And that almost the reason the show couldn't be streamed. They were really worried about that. But I still think the music was really wonderful in the. In even this show, because it was still Sinead o', Connor, I believe, seeing that it is.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

And, you know, I applaud Universal for restoring most of the original licensed music to the versions that air on Amazon Prime. I've kind of jumped through the episodes on Amazon prime and watched to see if certain songs are still intact. And they are, for the most part, in most of the major usages, which is wonderful. But when it first got released on dvd, they stripped out all of the licensed music on DVD copies.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, fans were upset. I got so many social media posts.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

No, I know, I know. If you go to, like, Amazon and read the reviews of the DVDs, people were very upset. You know, music was really a character on the show. And I mean, I would give the Equivalency Imagine if they, you know, they decided to reshoot all of your scenes as actors with your extra stand in.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, kind of. I mean, I mean, I think that the music was really, really, really pivotal. But I had a three year discussion with the Universal executives and they couldn't get past that. They're like, we don't, we're not going to do it. We're not going to stream it. But guys, you got to stream it because there's a rising generation. Let's keep up music. We can. But they're like, well, people might be upset, like, well, maybe here and there, but let's try to do our best. And with them about how to license, how they licensed on Broadway, I kept fighting, fighting, fighting about ways to get this licensed and to keep the most of the music. However, there was much more to the show. I mean, not to diminish the music, right? But you had great acting, you had great writing, you had a great cinematography, you had a great landscape, you had a love interest, you had quirkiness. There was so much to the show that I, and I want to be very careful here that we don't spill the fan of flames, you know, because I think that, that the music was.

[Rob Morrow]

What is that phrase? What is that phrase?

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't know what I just say.

[Rob Morrow]

Build fan of flames. What does that mean?

[Jeanine Turner]

Maybe that's not.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Denine and I applaud you for, for, you know, cheerleading to get the show on the air because there is a whole generation of people who have no idea what Northern Exposure is or was. You know.

[Jeanine Turner]

On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

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[Rob Morrow]

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[Martin Bruce Lee]

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[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I think it was all pretty good in this show, right? Because I, I mean, and I also want to say you the great Thing of the reason Rob and I, we feel so close to you, Martin, is you were really our closest contact as a producer. I think we spoke with you more every week for editing. You were on the phone with us, we saw you more often. We have such an affinity for you and a closeness with you because you were really hands on with us, I think, more than anybody else else. You know, everybody else was just sort of in LA and we didn't get to see them. But the music in this show, let's just talk about it. We start out with the tango. What made you decide to do tango music? For the clue that was.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

That was written by David Schwartz, our music composer. That wasn't a licensed piece of music. And I have to. And I have to stress David Schwartz, our music composer, who was. Is just a gem of a human being and I loved working with him. You can't think of a cooler, more chill, more kind gentleman on earth. I just loved our collaborative nature of working together.

[Rob Morrow]

He's a great guy. He's coming on. We're going to get him on the show pretty soon. He lost his house in the fires, by the way.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

It did get lost.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, that's a shame.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. His studio, everything. Guitars, all his instruments. Oh, no.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, but David Schwartz wrote that.

[Jeanine Turner]

I didn't. I never knew that. Did you know that, Rob? I never knew he wrote that tango song.

[Rob Morrow]

I didn't know. I mean, it doesn't surprise me. I mean, he's so. He's so versatile, you know, he did.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

So much in the Three Amigos. Jumping forward to the Three Amigos episode, which is in like the third season, Josh said, let's have an orchestra score that and David, which David composed a, you know, hundred piece orchestra at Sony Sound Studios. And we did a total underscore for that.

[Rob Morrow]

Or maybe we should save. Maybe we should, Janine. Maybe we should save them for that episode, Three Amigos.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's really interesting. Well, what made you decide to do tango in that scene? I'm curious. I don't know.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I have no memory.

[Jeanine Turner]

I know it has been 35 years.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

You know, and Josh, Josh was very involved with the music on the show. He would come into the office and say, I was at a restaurant last night and I heard a song and these are three of the lyrics. Find this song. But there were, you know, going back to our concept of music, there were no rules, so we could really play anything. And, you know, I basically got a lot of music sent to me from record companies, but I would just ignore what their. You know, flavor of the month was in their focus tracks and just disregard them because, I mean, we used everything from Nat King Cole to Native American music to, you know, there were no rules. So the whole idea of K Bear existing as this radio station where you can play whatever you want, and it kind of was in tune with Chris. The philosopher of a philosopher is open to ideas and concepts and wanting to explore, you know, the new and to grow versus just what's fed you from, you know, mass mainstream media.

[Jeanine Turner]

Top 40. Not the top 40. And then when Holly is having his fling. When Holly is having his fling with his girlfriend, it's. It's show tunes. You know, you had showtunes.

[Rob Morrow]

Interesting.

[Jeanine Turner]

So you went from tango to show tunes to Brahms Lullaby. I think that was a classical version of Brahms Lullaby.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I think it's called Gutenabend is the main lyric. I can't remember.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. I think that's what it was.

[Rob Morrow]

But let's go back to. Yeah, let's go back to the. What you were saying, Janine, about, you know, be the distinct relationship we had with Martin. I just want to explain that to the audience a little. So, you know, we've talked so far over the podcast about ADR looping, replacing dialogue, fixing dialogue that wasn't right, or adding dialogue in the case of this show. If you're. If you're watching, you see Martin holding up a picture of me in our.

[Jeanine Turner]

Little Rob, saying, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not saying that line.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, that's our little.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Episode.

[Jeanine Turner]

One of my favorites.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, but.

[Rob Morrow]

But the. So what would happen is Martin would. They would fly Martin up to Seattle and he. They would. They would rent a recording studio down Seattle, and we would all be scheduled to go in sometimes, like, I don't know what. How many hours, Janine? Like, five hours.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, it should have been like 30 minutes. An hour. We were there five hours. A lot. Like, we got to know Martin really well.

[Rob Morrow]

Mind you, by the end of the series, it was about 20 minutes, but. But at the beginning, it was like three or four hours.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's because we lost some of that genius in the last couple episodes, too, with Josh.

[Rob Morrow]

And we would get. We would get irate or I would. I remember, you know, scaring Martin by screaming and yelling that I'm not gonna. You know, they. Us to. To. To change performances sometimes in ways that didn't seem, you know, that we didn't like. But Martin was so. You are so judicious, and the way you handled us and your gentle touch and your understanding. Because I remember often you'd be like, you know what? You're right. All right, let's do it your way. You know, and we always kept her cool. He really kept us cool. And we got through it and, and it was just such a pleasure, you know, you just were. I just only have great memories, even though I know I was difficult for you, especially in the early years, but, and I really. You really handled it well. But you know, Martin, one of the things that was frustrating, if you remember, and I still find this problematic when I watch the shows where Josh, you know, there was this notion, there was this ethos kind of, that there could be no dead air. So if, if something was said and, and the actor on camera didn't respond, then the actor that's over where the camera is behind their back would. We would add all these lines and you know, extra things that to me, when you, you see, I know, I mean, maybe the audience does it, but I know when they, that there's a, what do you call it, a.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Blue.

[Rob Morrow]

Light, an ambient, ambient shift, you know, in the background when you can hear it. And so what would talk a little about that and maybe some of your memories of, of looping with us?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, you know, Josh is a writer and I can't, I'm not going to speak for Josh, but Josh, Josh is a writer. So in the post production process, I mean, Josh ran the show, he was involved with the editing. He would want to write added lines for whatever reason he wanted to, whether it was to, you know, sometimes you have what's called shoe leather, especially on a show like Northern Exposure where people are walking, not on a Hollywood set where it's, you know, you're walking two feet to deliver your. Get on your mark and deliver your line. But you're walking on a main street or you're walking out of an office, or you're going out in the street or you're in the woods and there's a lot of shoe leather, which is person getting from point A to point B. So there are opportunities for him to add dialogue. There are also, you know, technical reasons. You know, I always say when I work with actors in looping, it's like if you do an action movie like Star wars, like 80% of your dialogue is going to be looped because it's all on artificial sets. And you know, your production quality of your dialogue isn't good, so you redo it for that. It, you know, there's multiple reasons, but I'm the You know, soldier for the executive producer and work for the. So the executive producer and have to deliver their vision. You know, the goal is to try to make the looping not noticeable. As a producer or, you know, as a filmmaker, that's your goal. Never to hear it or as a sound supervisor. So you want it to be good, but you're dealing with multiple factors. I mean, imagine what our voices sound like today. And then if we were to reconvene in a month, I might have a head cold. I might have yelled at a football game the night before. And inherently, our voices and our instruments are going to sound different. And then you also have to compound that by the fact that you're not in Rosslyn or Sicily, Alaska, on a main street with open ambient air and wind blowing. You're in a generic cold studio in front of a TV monitor with headphones on.

[Jeanine Turner]

Done well. And from an actor's standpoint, it's very hard to get that back. It's very hard to get that emotion back that. That you had at 2:00am or you know what, that you were hungry, you were tired. That brought such color to it. Whatever it might be. The. The tactile. Like looking at Rob, I was right across from Rob. We had this kind of chemistry and everything happening. And basically, lines are supposed to be redone only if there's a sound issue.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

You.

[Rob Morrow]

There's a lot of actors like Al Pacino who love to loop, who love to actually set their performance in post. I mean, it's an interesting thing, I mean, because they feel like they get another shot at. At doing it, in a way.

[Jeanine Turner]

Those little cracks in my voice when I'm crying and whatnot. It's just.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

So I. I've worked with some actors who. Who want. Who say, can I do that again? And they've. They've wanted to redo a line for performances like, can I do that again? And there are some actors who I've worked with. Cynthia Geary on Northern Exposure was an amazing looper. She. Like one or two takes, exact voice match. They dropped in like butter on the mixing stage. Just amazing. Michael Imperioli on the Sopranos was equally great. He would never do more than one or two takes. Like, he did it on the first take, and then it'd be like, like, well, should we do another one just for protection? And we would. But first take.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. See, I'm too busy working on all the emotional layers I'm supposed to bring back and get. Get that little catch in my voice that you just can't get all those little idiosyncrasies. Hey, Rob, if I can just interject for a minute, I know one of those filler lines. You know, we don't. I don't hear the. The looping like I used to 35 years ago, because we were so sensitive to it. But I'm crossing the street, Rob, to get to you on that. When we're talking, he's like, wait, wait, you know, you're concerned about me? And there was a little line like, yes, no, yes, no. And it was to get me from up, you know, up onto the curb and around to turn around to see Rob. And I'm like, I know. That was a loop, right?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, no, there. There. There are. You know, the Three Amigos episode had 325 loop lines in it.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, my God.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's kind of crazy. That's not really normal.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

325. It was. It was a lot normal.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's. That's just. Yeah, and that's why.

[Rob Morrow]

So you don't have.

[Jeanine Turner]

Have.

[Rob Morrow]

You don't have any memories of any looping sessions, per se, like, anything?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Oh, I do. I remember I was. Flew into Red Eye Flighter really early, and I was sleeping in the looping stage, and Barry Corbin roared into the looping stage and, like, got right 2 inches from my face and said, why did you use that loop line? Because Matt Nodella had supervised him for a pickup loop line that Josh wanted to do, and Barry didn't want to do it, and Barry got, like, two inches away from my face in total rage. Like, why did you use that line? And I'm like. Was just waking up from sleeping on the sound in the soundstage floor.

[Jeanine Turner]

You got to give it to actors who have passion. Because I. I found this when. When Rob left and Rob. And Rob was replaced. It. It was just not the same. And it. It was not the same for it because there wasn't the level of passion of the person opposite me that cared that much about the work. So, not that someone should get in your face, but, I mean, I. I would any day take an actor that has passion over an actor that just walks in, goes, yeah, what do you want me to do? Okay, great, bye. I mean, it's those people that have that kind of depth of caring about their work that, you know, are golden in my book, at least.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Everyone really brought something to the table on Northern Exposure. You know, the writing, the. The acting, the scenery, like you say, Janine, everything was really just all these stars, like, collided, and they all just worked to create this Magic.

[Jeanine Turner]

And just as Martin was in a dark room on the other side of the glass and we were on the other side, I couldn't always see you, but I could hear you.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

No, I was right in the room with you. You were like three feet away from you.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, Yeah, I guess I did. If I thought about it long enough.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

No, looping was. Looping was a big part of Josh Brand's filmmaking. And when he left the show, it got reduced. He just, you know, it was something that Josh, you know, was part of his magic.

[Jeanine Turner]

It was magic and it worked. And the music was phenomenal. Go ahead, Rob.

[Rob Morrow]

That's interesting that. That's why it got less, too. Speaking of that, can you speak a little about what the difference in general was from when Josh left the show to what. To the. To the subsequent few seasons?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I always say, you know, regarding the whole nature of episodic television is that you're asking an audience to invite seven or eight people into your home once a week, week to spend time with them. And we did 110 episodes, which in, like, today's streaming world would be like 10 years worth of shows. And I don't want to go through a circle of blame of, like, why the show didn't continue, because, I mean, we did a lot. We did 110. But answering your question about the change from Josh, I mean, Josh, we went to Rosalynn or Cicely, Alaska with Joel Fleischman. We entered that universe with Joel. So anything that happened after you're leaving the show, Rob would be introducing two other doctors or a doctor and his wife to come into the universe? We are. We as an audience were already with all of these friends and families and characters. So it's a.

[Rob Morrow]

But I'm talking about the style, the. The tone and style. Was there any, like, the way the show was? Was there anything in the writing, in the producing that you can remember that was different between Josh being there and then David Chase coming in?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

You have to understand the dynamic of being an executive producer is that David Chase had created his own show called Almost Grown before working for Josh and John and All Fly Away. So he had had that experience of creating the tone and creating the. The tone of a show and creating all, you know, all elements of the show. He was essentially a hired gun on Northern Exposure. He had worked on All Fly Away, but, you know, all the players were intact. I mean, Robin Green and Mitch Burgess were still worked on the show until the end. Andy Schneider and Diane Froelove worked on it till the end. Jeff Milvoin. I gotta give a shout out to Jeff Milvoin. I think his show Democracy in America is one of the best written, relevant episodes of Northern Exposure that everyone should watch.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, it's a great. It still holds up. You're right. And Jeff was a real, you know, Jeff is the one who coined the phrase. Northern Exposure is like a souffle. If it's one inch too low, it doesn't work, and if it's one inch too high, it doesn't.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Josh actually said that. Josh.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, Jeff told me.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Said that. That, you know, the food analogy of, of it, you know, and, and it can collapse. You know, we're creating something very, you know, beautiful and magical and fluffy and delightful, but it could collapse.

[Jeanine Turner]

And Jeff Melvoin shows up for my Emmy nomination.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, interesting.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, I loved his writing and the, the complexity of it and the humor. There was the humor with the depth. He's a, He's a great writer.

[Rob Morrow]

Let's talk a little more about the episode, you know, in terms, you know, because I think the, the fans like us to get the story, you know, talk about this episode, per se. Martin, did you. You watch it recently?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I watched it last night and I honestly, I didn't remember it that much, but then it all came back to me.

[Rob Morrow]

Right.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Like it does, you know, like anything. You know, when, when we work on these shows, like Janine said, you know, hearing a loop line, you. When you watch them, when they broadcast on television, you're waiting for every footstep, every line that the actor delivers and hoping the loop line sounds good, hoping the music isn't too loud and it's protecting the dialogue. So you're watching all of those things. The, the scene in the bar where you're black and white, that was a rotoscope. We, and we, frame by frame, we went in and circled around your body to make you black and white. And like, one of the rules was, I think was that nobody could walk in front of you or it was going to be a lot more money if somebody walked in front of you. So you're in the foreground.

[Rob Morrow]

It's like $60,000aminute back then or something like that.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

It's all like frame based now. You can go to like, you know, an app on your phone and delete your background and, you know, put in a.

[Jeanine Turner]

But I have to say, to interject right there, I think film is so much more beautiful than digital. I still love film. I like film any day. It, the depth of it, the richness of it, much More female friendly, but it was just not seeing every PO pour on your face. I, I just think this high def business is great if you're a man, but if you're a woman is ridiculous. And, and we've, we've kind of lost that whole sort of beauty of making movies, which is one of the things that Rob and I talk about. This show had a beauty and a richness about it. I really love that film.

[Rob Morrow]

I like them both. I find advantages and disadvantages to both. I think you can do a lot now with, with high def.

[Jeanine Turner]

You know, when they go in and light and, and they turn off all they say, we'll light it in post. I hate that, you know. Well, it's like we're back to the 1940s where there's just a bright light everywhere and there's no nuance. And we, as a.

[Rob Morrow]

You can do. You can be subtle with it. I mean, it's, you can be very subtle with it.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, technology is. When we started to work on shows, it used to be, can you do this technologically? And now it's, it's. How much money do you want to spend? Because I mean, look at like the Planet of the Apes movies. You can create with, with, you know, realistic looking, you know, Lord of the Rings, what you can do with visual effects now and everything.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, but I can tell in the background that those ships in the sea aren't real ships. You know, I mean.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, if you spend enough money, they can look like real sometimes.

[Rob Morrow]

If you spend. Yeah, if you spend.

[Jeanine Turner]

This is like a Ridley Scott movie. This is a Ridley Scott movie. And I could tell in the background that those were fake ships and fake towns. There's just a difference, I think.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, I was going to say it can be done. It can be done really well and it can be done not well. And it is, it comes down to a cost. But, but I want to get back to the show like the, you know, I find it's interesting in this episode that and often in Northern Exposure, now that I think about it, death is dealt with all the time. You know, it's. I mean, this whole show episode is about death, right? I mean, your relationship, Maggie's relationship to it, her fear of Joel dying, you know, it's just, it's. I love that. I mean, I personally love dealing with the notion of death and being conscious of it. And I think that it's a. Why it's wise to be aware of your own.

[Jeanine Turner]

Don't we all think about it all the time? I mean, really if you face. We are all thinking about death kind of all the time, really. You know, especially once you've lost your parents. When you've lost your parents, right, Martin? I mean it's. Yeah, yeah, but, but I think that's why Maggie in this episode was so kind of. I noticed she wasn't quite as flirtatious. Right Job. You know what I mean? She was really holding it back and she was not going to give you anything. And I think it was because she was so afraid of the death, you know, that. That was a whole. It was a completely different level. But you're right, Rob, there was a lot of death in the show. But the irony about that is that it was so happy, it was so quirky, was so funny at the same time.

[Rob Morrow]

I think that's a great point. I think that's a great point. Is that it? It, it's.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

It.

[Rob Morrow]

There's an appreciation for the, the, the, the cycle of life and death, you know that and it's an all a celebration. Death is not the another phase. I mean, and I think that in the native culture that comes out, it.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Was just dealt with very matter of factly. Yeah, we die, we live, we die and we move on. And you know, there's a great line. Were you in the Chosen, Rob?

[Rob Morrow]

I did a musical of the Chosen.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Okay. There's a great line in there about our lives are but a blink of the eye. And in the it eternity, our human lives are just a blink of the eye, but it's the eye that blinks. That is something.

[Rob Morrow]

Wait, say it again. Say that again.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, I'm like, what?

[Rob Morrow]

I don't know if I'll ever explain that.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

There's a great passage from the Chosen and I'm going to paraphrase it and kill it.

[Rob Morrow]

That's a book by Haim Potok that was made into a movie with Robbie Benson and Barry Miller. And then I did a off Broadway musical of it.

[Jeanine Turner]

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[Martin Bruce Lee]

But the concept of our lives are. If you look at our lives in the scope of eternity are merely a blink of the eye. But it's the eye that blinks. That is something that is great.

[Rob Morrow]

That's. I get it. I get it. Because it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, it shifts our own eyes here.

[Rob Morrow]

On Earth that are blinking well, the individual. How you. The person who marks that moment become, you know, you. You and me, you know, are. We. We become what we do with our lives. Yeah, yeah. Our lives. Yeah. As individuals is what, you know, is magic, you know, and yet in the grand scheme of things, we're all just a blink of an eye.

[Jeanine Turner]

But we've got to go back to Shakespeare. We're all dust. We're all eaten by the world.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

All we are is dust in the wind.

[Jeanine Turner]

All is vanity and chasing after the wind.

[Rob Morrow]

I love that. I. You know, I. I also love. I love Corbett in this episode. I love Barry in this episode. I mean, Barry's got a great storyline that.

[Jeanine Turner]

That. Can I interject? Right, Rob, when he walks in, he goes. He walks in like. Like the right stuff with Sam Shepard. He goes. Puts his hands on his hips. He goes, go ahead, watch me sleep.

[Rob Morrow]

And he's in those pajamas. He's wearing those fish pajamas. And what's the deal? Like, he's having an affair. That woman's married, and she comes through and has annual.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

She's an astronaut groupie.

[Rob Morrow]

Right.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's why he's comparing himself to all the other astronauts. Well, how was it compared to this astronaut that.

[Rob Morrow]

And so funny.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

The footage of the rocket going off, the big phallic symbol at the end of the scene where the spaceship going up. We got that from NASA. We licensed it from NASA because as US Citizens, all the footage of rockets and NASA footage is in the public domain. You don't have to pay any license fee for it. So we actually got that from NASA.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, interesting. And, you know, I want to say, as far as the sound is concerned, there was a moment and I thought I wrote it down in my notes, but I don't think I did. But let's just say Maggie's opening the door, right? You heard the gust of wind that. The cold. You brought in the coldness. You brought in the. The wolf crying in the background, right? There was another and there was another little like a chirp of a dog or all the sounds that were brought in that. That no one really notices that are added in post. There's like four or five different. Different little nuances to. To bring that to life. I just think is really, really interesting.

[Rob Morrow]

You're right. The sound. The sound design and editing on the show was. Martin, maybe you could speak to that a little.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, well, we. We did our sound and Bill Angarola was the architect of the sound work. He worked at Skywalker Sound, I believe. Tadao Skywalker Sound. The companies were always changing, but yeah, it was just, you know, we really just, you know, we did research on, you know, what birds are exist in Alaska and gave that to the sound effects editor. And, you know, half of the show, I always used to tell people what if you saw the street, the scene was filmed in Rosslyn, and if you didn't see this street, it was on a stage. Generally all the characters homes were built in stages. So all of that sounds got added. I mean, I went home for. During a hiatus and I brought a DAT recorder with me and I went out in the middle of the night and recorded frogs by my parents house in northern Minnesota. And those live often in Northern Exposure.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, frogs. I would talk. We were talking about that last week I came when we arrived in Seattle. I called my mother because I've been living in New York City for so long and said, mom, listen, frogs. So you know, it's. The frogs were. But you know what? I have to ask you a question. I'm sure a lot of the people listening that really are tuned into the show. There's always a spear. There was this like spear change that would change scenes a lot. Was that a hawk? Hawk or was that an eagle? It was like that one.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I'm not sure. It was a hawk. One of our signature.

[Jeanine Turner]

I have hawks out here. I think it was a hawk because.

[Rob Morrow]

I hear that same sound here too.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

We tried. We tried to like accentuate cuts with, you know, hard sound effects to like, you know, emphasize the cut from one scene to another scene. Like a truck going by really slow. And another thing about Sicily is that we always try to make everything a little like beat up from the weather. So like car doors. We always added that they like make a rusty noise when they close.

[Rob Morrow]

Interesting. Interesting.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

What was the. Just out of curiosity, what was. Do you remember what the budget for music was per episode?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I don't. I know that they changed it as the show went along because.

[Rob Morrow]

Because they got more money, right?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, no, initially when the show started, they were clearing them only for five years. Somebody else did the actual clearances. So I wasn't involved with the negotiating of the prices and stuff, but I think there was only like a five year clearance at first. And then after the show took off and they knew it was going to be around, they tried to clear it in perpetuity forever. But they're all different.

[Jeanine Turner]

That was part of the issue.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, no, I know. And. And going back to the DVD thing.

[Jeanine Turner]

They.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

It just, you know, it is show business. And there was somebody who just realized that in order to license all this music, you're gonna have to charge X amount of dollars for DVDs. And then DVDs became obsolete as a format for people to watch things when Blockbuster went away. And now we're in the streaming world. So I don't know what the whole economics are of it, but I'm really thankful that the majority of the music pieces are still in the show. Show.

[Jeanine Turner]

So you do feel that the music is better in the Amazon than it was?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah. Oh, the DVDs are unwatchable.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. I mean, they're really not the case. It's not the case with Amazon. Correct. We got the Amazon part of that process.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, I went through, I made, I went online and I checked, like, what. What's still in. And I could give you like a runoff of some of the big usages that are still in the show, if you're interested.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, go ahead. Go for it. It.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

We've got When I Grow Too Old to Dream by Nat King Cole. At the end of the Big Kiss episode where Ed drives away in his pickup truck, we have Bobby McFerrin's Common Threads, which is over a party photo of everyone laughing and stuff with Chris in the. In the DJ booth. I May Want a Man by Joanna Shenandoah and Native American the Ojibwe Square Dance by Georgia Wetland Larson. Which was. Was the episode that I directed the Maryland Goes to Seattle footage.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, right. Wait, you directed an episode? Wait, let's hold that for a sec.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I just did second unit.

[Rob Morrow]

Just a second unit. What episode was that?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

It was the Learning Curve episode. It was where Marilyn goes to Seattle.

[Rob Morrow]

And you always. Did you always want to direct in that you just kind of leveraged your position or they just needed someone to fill.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Josh asked me to go do it and so I wanted to. I mean, it was something. And I directed an episode on the Soprano.

[Rob Morrow]

Which one?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

The second episode of season two.

[Rob Morrow]

God, that's good. Second episode of season Two, they must have great faith in you.

[Jeanine Turner]

I have to tell you, directing is one of my favorite things to do in the whole world. I love Rob loves it too.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I mean, there's just. I could go on and on about. They're, you know, DW Suite, which ends the spring break episode with the Running of the Bulls. That's Lindsey Buckingham song.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's still there is what you're saying.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

That's still in there. Tango to Evora, which is Lorena McKinnon, which the women bury items is the men watch from a distance. That's still in there. This is one of my favorite Josh selections is La Wally, which is an obscure opera used in the film, I think, called Diva. And it's used in the spring break episode where Chris is busted by Ed for stealing everything in the episode. And Chris has the great line, sometimes you have to do something bad just to make sure you're still alive in the aria crescendos at that point, you know, Josh was. Josh was brilliant. He'd come in the office and have ideas. And so I remember when.

[Jeanine Turner]

When the bear came back to dance with Maggie, he had a thing for Maggie and it was to that beautiful opera music.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

That was. That was. Yes, there was an opera piece that we used. But also David Chase did like a 20 piece orchestra score of I have a Funny Story of that episode. It was.

[Jeanine Turner]

Which one? The Bear.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

When the Bear Comes the Bear episode. I can't remember the title of what it was. But anyways, the one where Maggie falls in love with a man who's a.

[Jeanine Turner]

Bear when the bear was in love with her. Yeah, yeah.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

We had 11 days from the time you guys said cut on the set until the time that episode aired. 11 days from the time you shot the last frame of film. Film till the audience watched.

[Rob Morrow]

So it must have been the end of the season because as. As the. As a series, at least back then, the compression of time and post your.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Days got less and less and less. Exactly. This was. This was extreme. It must have aired like in May or something. But I have a funny story. We're on the mixing stage the day before, we're delivering the tape to the network and Maggie's in the cave with the man or bear. And we realized, oh my God, she just took her cape off twice. Oh, no, we hadn't realized in because we had edited so quickly. Right, right, of course, twice within the scene you take your coat off. So we had to go back and do an edit fix and correct it at the last minute.

[Jeanine Turner]

Wow.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

We did 25 episodes a year.

[Jeanine Turner]

I know. It's amazing.

[Rob Morrow]

It's crazy.

[Jeanine Turner]

For 55. Zero.

[Rob Morrow]

Crazy.

[Jeanine Turner]

I mean, to go from a starving actress, you know, with $8 left, to a series that was picked up for five, zero, 50 episodes at One Wants. And I remember they sent us a TV with a bunch of. Here, you can record all your episodes. It was kind of our gift.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, I always said we were lucky if we could do our laundry on Sundays.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, no kidding. I mean, it was crazy. Crazy. Busy schedule, Janine.

[Rob Morrow]

You didn't give us any. How. What about some of your favorite lines from this one? I have one. I have one. I love this one. This was in your scene, which was so sweet when you come to. To ask Chris's advice about whether you should tell Joel discussion. And you say, and I love your line, is it the prem. Is it the premonitioner's moral obligation to warn the premonition? And then. And then Chris says, depends on the nature of the premonition. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

We go back and forth about, well, you could change the flight, but if you change the flight. And I have this thought all the time, right?

[Rob Morrow]

And that's so fascinating. Like, no matter what, you change the flight.

[Jeanine Turner]

But it's the other flight that they go to that might be the one that. So, you know, if it's just fate, and then you're like, okay, I'm totally confused now. I have no clue what to do. And then when I round. When Maggie rounds the corner and sees you in the street, she kind of balks, like, oh, it's you. You know?

[Rob Morrow]

Right. Right.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I don't know if this was intentional on your part, Rob, but I thought Joel was so charming and sweet in this episode.

[Rob Morrow]

Totally intentional.

[Jeanine Turner]

No, I'm kidding.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

I mean. I mean, there was no cantankerous, you know, crabby Dr. Fleischman. You were. You were. And you were so nice to o' Connor Channel.

[Jeanine Turner]

You were.

[Rob Morrow]

I think.

[Jeanine Turner]

I think I was so held back. I was really holding back, which I think dynamic.

[Rob Morrow]

One of the things that. That I love tracking, you know, now with the distance of time, is the relationship between Maggie and Joel and how it es and flows and grows, you know, that he. He does seem to genuinely care about her, you know, and then. And. And you can see each episode that things happen. And also. Also just the idea. I mean, it's such an interesting way to know that someone cares about you is that they're worried you're gonna die, you know? But I don't. I don't know if I. You Know, thought. I didn't think about Charming and Sweetness, but I definitely thought about when we were making. It was the. How he was opening to. To not only Maggie, but the whole town. Like, you know, you see him sitting in the. In the town hall meeting, which. Which, you know, where. Where the whole town's there discussing. Why are we. Oh, it's. And. And. And Joel shows up, and he's just one of the townspeople sitting there. He's not like, sitting like, you know, pissed off that he's there. He's just. He's. He's one of them.

[Jeanine Turner]

That was the first time you weren't pissed off. That's probably true. You just weren't really pissed off in this episode. You were happy to be there, and also you were threatened. You know, we don't always appreciate things until we think someone else is going to take them away from us. Right.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, I must say something about Rob Morrow or. And slash Joel Fleischman is. You can be the most miserable person on the planet, but when you flash that smile of yours, it melts away.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's right. And you were very charming.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Have the most charming, beautiful, happy place when you. When that smile comes on your face.

[Rob Morrow]

Thanks.

[Jeanine Turner]

And that juxtaposition at the door when you're. They're opening the door for me. And I thought it was at the very beginning of the episode, and I thought it was so bizarre that you were actually helping me with the door that I sort of sidestep around you.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

You.

[Jeanine Turner]

You know what I mean? Like, I don't know whether to trust you're suspect. Yeah. Yeah. And I just. I thought that juxtaposition between the two of us was really interesting because Maggie was just afraid to show anything. And I think she was afraid to show anything because I. I always looked at things from an emotional standpoint. Right. Because she didn't want you to die.

[Rob Morrow]

Right, right, right.

[Jeanine Turner]

She was holding it all back. If I'm attracted to you, then you might die. But you're right, Rob. That fate discussion was hilarious. That was really, really fun. And that's true about fate. Can we really control fate? Which goes to the whole philosophical aspect of the show, which the, The. The Chris in the Morning character was able to give us that. The ability to go have that fate discussion was. Was really a lot of fun. But, Rob. Yes. You were very charming, and you didn't let up, and it was really fun. Oh, and I. Speaking of lines, I wrote them down. Rob, you're like, wait, Janine, look what he.

[Rob Morrow]

Look what Martin's showing. For those of you who are watching the show, Martin is showing one of Janine's. Janine sent these holiday cards. I have every single one up in a scrapbook up there. And they got more and more elaborate and, and production and. But they were always fascinating and fun and Martin was just showing one usually.

[Jeanine Turner]

With all my pets, with my horse and on set. That was on the set with the snow. Look at that.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Look at that.

[Jeanine Turner]

What a great shot. How fun. I don't even know if I still have that. That's really fun.

[Rob Morrow]

Is there anything before we're about to wind up here, but anything else you want to talk about or remember?

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, Martin, you'll have to come back because you were so pivotal and as I said, we're so close to you and because you were there more than.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Anybody else watching the podcast and revisiting these shows. I mean, it's been a long time, but, you know, it was really five wonderful years of existing as a nomadic band of gypsies who, you know, are, you know, at one moment not looking for work and totally broke to all of a sudden being on a successful show. I mean, it was, you know, we were a funny little summer experiment. Eight episodes in the middle of the summer. And it's like you were in magic country, part of the world away from everyone and you created all this wonderful tapestry to play music against and create moods and emotions and, and I often wonder if the world of Sicily, Alaska, what it would be like if it is introduced today.

[Rob Morrow]

I think audiences are craving. I just started watching this show Stick, which is on Apple with Owen Wilson. And again, it's this kind of show that, where there does seem to be a relatively non judgmental universe and I think, you know, audiences, I, I, as a, as an audience want that. I, I'm, I'm tired of the cynicism. I do, I appreciate the cynicism in a lot of entertainment. I watch it all, but I want, I feel like they're, they're. The world needs shows like this. Not necessarily, you know, maybe a little different, but I think it would, I think it would totally take off now if it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I think, I think Northern Exposure is taking off now. I think we have received from Northern Disclosure being, you know, at times ahead of Last of Us, right, which is currently filming right now and we were 30 years ago. So I, I think the fact that our show is doing so well and it's introduced again just shows that people do crave this kind of thing. And I'm withdraw. We just want.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

And how popular it was. I mean, at the height of its popularity, Northern exposure had like 16 million households. And in current standards, you know, a top network show now is lucky if it gets like 4 million.

[Rob Morrow]

And I just want to say, to your point, you know, Martin, about, you know, when, when people ask me if I miss it or, you know, what, what. When we're talking about this, what I miss was that when you, you were, you were kind of alluding to it in that five year period of intense creativity, you know, where every day, every day, whether you were working or not, you were thinking about, how can I. I create. How can I make this something special and multiply that times. 100 people working on this project for five years, 110 episodes. It was in a very fertile, focused period of time in all our lives.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

And everyone wanted to bring something to the project.

[Rob Morrow]

Yes, we all care.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

There was a collective care for what we were creating.

[Jeanine Turner]

And that, that goes back to the passion. I was talking about why I loved working with Rob so much. And with you, Martin, and with Josh and all this, the team is like. There was a. There was a collective passion for what we were doing. We really, really cared about it. And you're right, Rob, it was this intensity of five years. And it was. It was everything from the page to the stage to the post production. Everybody cared intensely. And I think it shows. I think it's when one element. I always talk about the collaborative aspect of the business. You know, try having just an actor with no sound, or an actor with no film, or an actor with, you know, it's like the actor without the words. It's all. But then try it without the actor. Right, the right actor. So I think that it's this collaboration and everybody cared so much and it was a beautiful time. And I have to say I've done a lot of great work since then, a lot of wonderful projects, but nothing is as near and dear to my heart as this show is.

[Rob Morrow]

That's a good place to. That's a good note to sign off, Martin.

[Jeanine Turner]

So Martin come back and Martin's very close to me, so we'll have lunch, right, Martin? We'll get together.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Sounds like a deal.

[Rob Morrow]

And thank you, Martin. It really. I'm so glad you came on. We're gonna definitely ask you to come again and I hope we get to. To chat and see each other in real life. And I would read anything you've written, so send it my way.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yes. And I would produce Anything you've written or fund it, if I had the funds.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Well, it's harder to sell than it is to create sometimes.

[Rob Morrow]

That's so true. That's why you got to have a lot of balls in the air. That's the name of that game. Name.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

But wonderful to see both of you. Thank you so much. And, oh, I have one final comment that you guys always end sometimes with north to the Future. North to the Future was one of the possible names for the show.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, no way. Oh, interesting.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, we had north to the Future, I think. Midnight Sun. North Sun.

[Jeanine Turner]

I love that song. That's a great Ella Fitzgerald song, by the way.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

And Northern Exposure. North to the Future is the motto for the state of Alaska that was formed, like, in 1967 for their centennial of their purchase. But what I love about northern exposure coming from New York. Rob, you coming from New York is a northern exposure for your apartment is the least desirable because you don't have the southern sun in the northern hemisphere lighting up your apartment. You're looking at reflected light from a northern exposure.

[Rob Morrow]

But painters always wanted Northern Expo in. In the city, right? You wanted to. Because the light was, I guess, even or something. It wasn't harsh of this, right?

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Yeah, it was. It was. It was not. It was. It wasn't direct light from the south. So.

[Jeanine Turner]

My mother's a realtor. My mother's a realtor, and she always says north, north, north. Everything grows north, north, north. And of course, north to the Future was the last frontier. That's what I remember you saying, Rob.

[Rob Morrow]

Janine likes to do this, so why don't we do. Why don't we do it? Why don't we do a. A group of north, kid. All right, so we'll. 1, 2, 3.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

North to the future. Bye, guys. Thank you.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, well, we'll. We'll be back next week and I look forward to seeing you for our. Our fabulous show. And we're signing off. It's o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Rob Morrow]

Maybe. Maybe it would be better if it was. I probably should be Fleischman.

[Jeanine Turner]

O'. Connell. Yeah. In your dreams, Fleischmann.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Go through.

[Jeanine Turner]

And Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media. You say you'll never join the Navy, that living on a submarine would be too hard. You'd never power a whole ship with nuclear energy, never bring a patient back to life, or play the national anthem for a sold out crowd. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your journey [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the Sea Support for this podcast.

[Rob Morrow]

And the following message comes from America's Navy the Navy offers new graduates hands on training and experience in careers like.

[Martin Bruce Lee]

Computer science, aviation and medicine, plus education.

[Rob Morrow]

And sign on bonuses. Parents help your grads start their career [e-mail].