S2E6: “War & Peace” with Mitch Burgess and Robin Green

Summary

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Northern Disclosure S2E6: “War & Peace” with Mitch Burgess and Robin Green

Podcast: Northern Disclosure (Evergreen Podcasts)
Episode Airdate: August 19, 2025
Guests: Robin Green (co-writer/producer), Mitch Burgess (writer/producer), with hosts Rob Morrow and Janine Turner

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Episode Overview

This week, Rob Morrow and Janine Turner take a deep dive into “War & Peace,” Season 2, Episode 6 of Northern Exposure, joined by two key creative forces behind the episode: Robin Green and Mitch Burgess. The conversation blends nostalgia, behind-the-scenes stories, and literary analysis, focusing on the episode’s multi-layered narrative, the creative process in the writer’s room, and the signature quirky tone that defined the series.

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Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Revisiting “War & Peace”

[01:27–04:31]

• Episode Summary: Rob reads the synopsis, spotlighting intertwining storylines: Holling’s troubles with dreams and Valium, the Russian festival visit by Nikolai Apalanoff, Maurice’s patriotism and chess rivalry, Chris’s annual War and Peace reading, and Ed’s romantic misadventures with Lightfeather.
• Guest Stars: Mention of guest star Ilia Baskin (Nikolai Apalanoff) and Dana Anderson as Lightfeather (“She was a perfect foil for Ed… She was really good.” – Janine, 02:37)

2. Themes of Duality & Literary Allusions

[04:31–08:55]

• Janine highlights the depth and “parallel universes” woven through the script—duality echoed in the duels of the show and Tolstoy’s War and Peace.

  “Chris has this great line: ‘In this parallel universe we call reality, we've scripted in our own duel.’”
  — Janine Turner, [04:58]

• Rob and Janine discuss how literature, especially Russian novels, is layered into the dialogue and storylines.

  “The whole reference with John Corbett and Ed about ‘eroticizing the landscape’… He talks about Henry Miller and Baudelaire had a really great thing with the white cat fur.”
  — Janine Turner, [06:45]

3. Meet the Writers: Robin Green and Mitch Burgess

[08:57–14:43]

• Robin talks about her background, from Rolling Stone magazine (“The Only Girl”) to Marvel Comics, and how she found her way into TV writing.
• Mitch and Robin share their path to Northern Exposure and name-dropping the Iowa Writers' Workshop as a key connection point for the creative team.

  “He was my professor… I met him at Iowa the year that I met John.”
  — Robin Green, [11:44]

• Mitch became involved in the third season; Robin started just after the pilot episodes.

4. The Collaborative Writing Process

[14:43–18:17]

• Robin discusses collaboration in the writers' room, sometimes revising or “polishing” each other’s scripts.
• The episode’s roots are traced back to Henry Brummell as a key architect of its literary flavor.

  “My name is second in the credits. So it's possible that Henry wrote it and then I polished it or something. I don't know.”
  — Robin Green, [17:06]

5. International Reach & Fan Reception

[16:11–16:54]

• Robin recounts a book tour in Spain where she was surprised by the show’s lasting popularity—there titled “Dr. in Alaska”.

6. Literary References, Google, and Pre-Internet Era

[18:20–19:32]; [22:35–23:19]

• Janine and Robin reminisce on how, before easy Internet access, literary references were woven through scripts through diligent research, not Google.
• They marvel at the blend of Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Henry Miller, Baudelaire, and more.

7. Breaking the Fourth Wall

[20:09–25:55]

• The episode features an unusual device: the cast breaks the fourth wall during the duel, discussing the plot as both themselves and their characters—without actually reverting to their real names.

  “We broke the fourth wall as actors, but we didn’t refer to each other with our own names. We still referred to each other in our character names.”
  — Janine Turner, [21:04]

• Robin admits the device “shouldn’t have worked, but it really works. I bought it… it seemed organic.” [23:49]
• Rob and Janine recall their confusion on set about how to play the scene, and how the technique avoided jarring the audience out of the story too much.

8. Duality & Subconscious Themes

[25:55–29:54]

• Janine continues to tease out “duality” in the script, but Robin and Mitch clarify that it wasn’t an intentional theme in the writers’ room.

  “That’s very common in scripts… People take different things from it, but I don’t think anybody was thinking that.”
  — Mitch Burgess, [27:19]

• They note that much of the literary texture comes from Henry Brummell’s influence.

9. Community & Nostalgia

[30:51–34:56]

• The cast and writers praise the show’s sense of community—“everybody’s there together”—and how that remains emotionally resonant.

  “That's another thing that I simply love… why people love Northern Exposure so much, is just the community.”
  — Janine Turner, [30:51]

• Shoutouts to supporting cast (especially Peg Phillips as Ruth-Anne) and excellent direction by Bill D'Elia.

10. The Writers’ Room: Competition & Literary Drive

[41:17–41:42]; [40:04–40:16]

• Mitch and Robin share about the culture of “good-natured competition” among the show’s writers, spurring them to new creative heights.

  “…we tried to outdo ourselves, like me and Robin, we tried to outdo Andy and Diane and Melvoin. It was really, we were really firing up by… the third year.”
  — Mitch Burgess, [41:17]

11. Literary Background vs. TV Tropes

[40:16–41:17]

• Robin and Mitch were “literary writers” (not just TV “technicians”), which infused the scripts and dialogue with depth and originality.

  “There was nothing ever until the end… ordinary about the scripts. The scripts were always profound. The dialogue was rich.”
  — Janine Turner, [40:22]

12. Post-Production & Editing

[41:42–42:13]; [43:01–43:33]

• Unlike today’s TV landscape, writers had less control over the final edit: “Josh and John did that stuff… we weren't there up in Seattle nearly enough.”
• They discuss the technical challenge of assembling dream sequences from film libraries (pre-Internet).

13. Non-Judgmental Universe

[43:39–44:28]

• Rob and Janine reflect on Josh Brand’s view of Cicely as a “non-judgmental universe” rather than “benevolent”—a contrast with David Chase’s later work (The Sopranos).

  “Josh told us that he didn’t think of it as a benevolent universe. He thought of it as… non-judgmental.”
  — Rob Morrow, [44:19]

14. Showrunner Transitions & Changes in Tone

[44:41–47:52]

• Robin and Mitch discuss what changed after David Chase (of The Sopranos) joined the show. The tone and visual aesthetic shifted, with later seasons becoming “darker” both thematically and visually.
• Mitch: “He did change the tone of Exposure.” [46:39]

15. Favorite Episodes & Behind-the-Scenes Insights

[47:52–50:39]

• Mitch and Robin recount memories of favorite scripts and challenging episodes—like “It’s not what you fling, it’s the fling itself,” and the production headaches (ADR, recuts) of other episodes.

16. Lasting Impact and Literary Life

[52:02–52:34]

• The group agrees that Northern Exposure “holds up” both in aesthetics and themes, and its “common themes” are even more desired today.

  “It did. It holds up… The show, really, it holds.”
  — Janine Turner, [52:05]

17. Robin Green’s Memoir & Ongoing Creativity

[52:24–52:47]

• Rob plugs Robin’s memoir: The Only Girl: My Life and Times on the Masthead of Rolling Stone.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Chris has this great line: ‘In this parallel universe we call reality, we've scripted in our own duel.’”
— Janine Turner, [04:58]

“We broke the fourth wall as actors, but we didn’t refer to each other with our own names. We still referred to each other in our character names.”
— Janine Turner, [21:04]

“I will say about the duel and breaking the fourth wall, it shouldn’t have worked, but it really works.”
— Robin Green, [23:49]

“That’s very common in scripts… People take different things from it. You know… I don't think anybody was thinking that [duality].”
— Mitch Burgess, [27:19]

“That's another thing that I simply love… why people love Northern Exposure so much, is just the community…”
— Janine Turner, [30:51]

“There was nothing ever, until the end, ordinary about the scripts. The scripts were always profound. The dialogue was rich… It was literary.”
— Janine Turner, [40:22]

“Josh told us that he didn’t think of it as a benevolent universe. He thought of it as… non-judgmental.”
— Rob Morrow, [44:19]

“We delighted in the writing of it and we delighted in the show. It was really fun. Really fun to write.”
— Robin Green, [41:35]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:27 – Episode summary and introduction to the themes
• 04:31 – Literary layers and dualities
• 08:57 – Robin and Mitch’s backgrounds
• 14:43 – The collaborative writing process
• 20:09 – Breaking the fourth wall scene and device
• 25:55 – Deeper analysis of duality (intended or not)
• 30:51 – Community and ensemble moments
• 40:16 – Literary writing vs. TV-writing conventions
• 43:39 – The show as a “non-judgmental universe”
• 44:41 – David Chase’s influence and later seasons
• 47:52 – Favorite episodes, memorable production challenges
• 52:02 – Lasting legacy and “common themes” today

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Closing Thoughts

The episode is a warm, richly nostalgic, and deeply insightful reflection on what made Northern Exposure unique: its literary resonance, communal spirit, and willingness to play with narrative conventions. The unique chemistry between the cast and writers, revealed in anecdotes and playful banter, underscores why the series continues to resonate with fans decades later.

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For more on Robin Green’s adventures, check out her memoir The Only Girl: My Life and Times on the Masthead of Rolling Stone.

Transcript

[Janine Turner]

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[Rob]

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[Janine Turner]

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[Janine Turner]

I'm fine, thank you. I have my notes, I have all my notes of all the lines from the show that I loved.

[Rob]

I'm sure. Well, you always pick the good ones. Oh, nice. This episode is called War and Peace. It's the season two, episode six episode and it was written by one of our guests, Robin Green and Henry Brummell, who was a great writer who passed away, I believe in like 2013 and I think he even won an Emmy. But Robin is here with, with her husband Mitch Burgess, who also was a writer and they were both producers on the show and I'll talk about them in a minute. But this, this show was a really interesting, unique show with some definite unusual touches, even for Northern Exposure. And it was directed by one of our favorites, Bill d', Elia, who went on to have an incredible career directing everything for David Kelly. And, and it's we have Ilia Baskin as the guest star and should I, what should I read the little plot about what it was.

[Janine Turner]

And Dana, Dana Anderson was another one.

[Rob]

Of the guest stars and she was great. You were saying before we got on you like really good.

[Janine Turner]

She was really.

[Rob]

Yeah, she was interesting. She was a perfect foil for Ed, right?

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. And she had that accent but it just seemed so real.

[Rob]

Yeah, it did seem real. She was, she plays a love interest to, to Ed Chigliak and it's an interesting story But I'm gonna read the. The audience seems to like these little plot descriptions. So this. The plot of. Of the episode War and Peace. Joel prescribes Valium to Holling, who fears his dreams, but the Canadian gets frightfully groggy and prefers to use another approach. The whole town celebrates the visit of Nikolai Ivanovich Apalanoff, a pop sing New York who organizes Sicily's annual Russian festival. Patriotic bad chess loser Maurice dares him to a duel. Chris holds the annual reading of War and Peace with original side comments. And Ed has a hot night with a saucy farm girl and considers marriage. But Sher prefers Chris. It's a. There's a lot going on in this show, aside from all the literary references, which all of our. Our English lit major writer we're having.

[Janine Turner]

Fun with before the days of Internet. We just always have to keep saying that, you know, before.

[Rob]

That's true. And I think just another housekeeping. You know, if you're. If you're listening to this podcast, you can also watch it. If you want to see the beautiful Janine, you can watch on the Handsome Rob. Thank you. You can watch on YouTube on the Northern Disclosure channel. And. Or if you're. If you're watching, you can listen if you're in your car. And then either way, subscribe, because then you'll get all the information about coming events and live appearances that we may or may not be doing in the future. And like that. So, Janine, tell me a little. What'd you think about the War and Peace?

[Janine Turner]

Well, you know, as I was watching the show, I watched it twice this morning, and the second time, all the sort of idiosyncrasies and the depth of connections started to hone in, in my brain. And I really love this parallel universe type of duality that they were focusing on. I really love. I know you love science fiction too, Rob, and I really love it.

[Rob]

Yeah. Talk about. More about that. What do you mean?

[Janine Turner]

Well, well, this Tolstoy, there's a line. It's all about duels, duels. The duel that happens later, the duel within the book when they're reading the Tolstoy because they're reading War and Peace. Chris has this great line. In this parallel universe we call reality, we've scripted in our own duel. Um, and so everything was about this sort of parallel universe, the duality and the. The level of. The level of literature references. In this particular episode, I thought the Dr. Zhivago and lines like, shall I go into some of my lines?

[Rob]

Sure. You had that great. You kind of quoted Dr. Zhivago.

[Janine Turner]

Yes, yeah, I did quote Dr. Zhivago, but I'm not sure I wrote those lines down. That was a pretty good. That was a pretty good little monologue.

[Rob]

It was great. It was beautiful.

[Janine Turner]

You know what it made me think about? Because it was talking about the skies, and the wind swept this and that and the gray steel of the sky. I thought, wow, you know, I still love poetic books like that. Prose that's just almost like poetry. And that's the way they. They used to write. I thought, well, I'm going to save one of the things I know you want to talk about to the end. And we can go back and forth, but things that they would say, like, he's a Greco Roman bronze medalist. The fact that Dostoevsky gambled everything away. Did he did the wild. He goes, marie Holling says, I want to go do the wild thing. Like Tolstoy. The whole reference with John Corbett and Ed. About eroticizing the landscape. No, no, no. He has it with the young girl. Anderson. Anderson.

[Rob]

Lightfeather.

[Janine Turner]

Dana Anderson. Yeah.

[Rob]

She plays light feather.

[Janine Turner]

Yes, yes, Dana Anderson. And the part about eroticizing the landscape because she loves this whole motorcycle became a sexual type of thing. And he says Henry Miller. He talks about Henry Miller. And Baudelaire had a really great thing with the white cat fur.

[Rob]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

I wrote it down. Vast steel gray skies. That was from Dr. Zhivago. I did write one.

[Rob]

And that's so. So perfectly descriptive of. I mean, when you watch the movie, those skies were vast and steely gray.

[Janine Turner]

They were. You want me to keep going? My other few more. Just. I have a few more.

[Rob]

It's either you're. It's up to you.

[Janine Turner]

Okay, well, the. The whole outraged honor of Russian arms. That was another line at the dog. The. Oh, and then there was this great reference, Rob. And I don't remember exactly who said it, but I think it probably was Chris. It was from. From the Machu Picchu to the. To the Acropolis. I thought that that was really amazing. And of course, there's a funny line between you and I when we're flirting at the end when I say. Yeah, you know, underneath that whiny, abrasive exterior of yours, I sometimes get a glimpse of something manly. Those were those kind of Lucy comments, you know?

[Rob]

I mean. I mean, I love what you're saying. I didn't quite follow the.

[Janine Turner]

The.

[Rob]

The. The dual. Dual things. And. But. But you.

[Janine Turner]

You.

[Rob]

Because we're not dealing with dual realities. You're just saying that we were. That the, that what was in the. The novel War and Peace was being represented in our show.

[Janine Turner]

Well, he talked about the parallel universe and the parallel universe is a duality and how we are carrying out a duel at the same time as the. They're talking about the duel in the book.

[Rob]

So it's a double entendre on the word duel is what you're saying.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, we're kind of having that parallel universe thing happening where there's suddenly there's a duel in the town between Maurice and. And the Russian and that there's also a duality talking about in the book. But then that duality of what's happening there is also happening here is sort of like a parallel universe. And then, you know.

[Rob]

Yeah, I get, I get what you're saying now. And then the play on the word duel as well is interesting.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. In the play on the world duality.

[Rob]

Our literary writers who we'll bring out now, Robin Green and Mitch Burgess, are super smart and talented. And I always remember them being so open and insightful and calm and just a great presence when they're around. And whenever their name was on a script, I would get excited because I knew it was going to be interesting. Robin originally was. Worked for Stan Lee. I don't know if you know that. Janine, she was at Marvel Comics and then she went on to work. She was, she was the only girl. There's a. She's a novel autobiography out that I read, which is so charming and should be a movie. I don't know what's going on with that, but it's called the Only Girl and it's, it's, it's subtitled My Life and Times on the mast head of Rolling Stone. She was the only girl at Rolling Stone magazine. And the stories are just amazing.

[Janine Turner]

Wow. That should be a movie. I'll play the part, Robin. I'll do it.

[Robin Green]

Okay.

[Rob]

But so. So she went on to come to write for us and then she went on and her and Mitch became writers and producers on the Sopranos. And Mitch, you know, wrote for us and was a producer and involved in many shows include, and then went on to write for Sopranos and, and the two of them together created the show Blue Bloods. I don't know if you know that, but that's a lot of checks in the mailbox on that one.

[Robin Green]

You know it. How do you think we got this house in Shelter Island?

[Rob]

And I'll just say that they were, they were. They had 11. They were nominated for 11 Emmys, for Sopranos, and they won three, I believe.

[Robin Green]

Really? But no, I had another one for Northern Exposure.

[Rob]

That's what I was going to ask.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, yeah.

[Robin Green]

It was the first one that we won as a team, you know.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, okay. Best show, right?

[Robin Green]

Okay, I have that, but I.

[Janine Turner]

The actors were not allowed to walk on the stage. But we'll talk about that another day.

[Mitch Burgess]

You guys were the first SAG people. Remember the first SAG Awards, weren't you guys?

[Janine Turner]

We were one of. Yeah. Didn't we win that, Rob? We were nominated for Best Awards.

[Mitch Burgess]

No one could understand why they didn't have one for the talent.

[Rob]

So, guys, what I want to ask you. Did you come to the show together as a team? Was that the way it worked?

[Robin Green]

No, no, I worked. How did I get on that show? Oh, I know. I met John Falzy at Iowa, and I met Mitch at Iowa. And Mitch used to play ball, you know, basketball with John Fauci, who was one of the creators of the show.

[Rob]

And that's the Iowa. The Iowa Writers Workshop.

[Robin Green]

And how.

[Rob]

Which is a. Renowned for the audience. That's a renowned writer. So many great writers have come out of there.

[Robin Green]

Everybody goes through there. Everybody came at one point, either lecturing or as a student. But Henry was my teacher. He was a seminar teacher. At 24 years old, Henry won the Houghton Mifflin Award for fiction. He was like a really fine literary writer. And that's who I knew. I met him at Iowa the year that I met John.

[Rob]

And Henry's the co writer of this. And then you go on to write with your professor. That's amazing.

[Robin Green]

Yeah, well, you know, it sort of was validating that he got into television, too. Do you know what I mean? Because I didn't become a literary writer. I became a television writer.

[Rob]

So John brought you on and Henry happened to be there.

[Robin Green]

Yeah, well, they had children at the same school or something, and John was at someone's house and he saw Henry's name on a parent list.

[Rob]

John was at Iowa, too? Yeah.

[Robin Green]

Yeah, well, he was at Iowa. That's how I knew him.

[Janine Turner]

Let me clarify. Let me clarify this. I know we're talking about the Iowa Writers Camp, but. But were John and Henry from Iowa?

[Robin Green]

No, no, no, no.

[Mitch Burgess]

Henry at the workshop, John's at Connecticut.

[Janine Turner]

Okay, so they were all just from. They were all just there for the workshop.

[Mitch Burgess]

The workshop attracted.

[Robin Green]

You know, it was. I had already had my Rolling Stone career, and I went there just to relax for a few years, you know what I mean? And retool and my life started again. I met Mitch, I met Henry. I met all the people who I would spend a lot.

[Janine Turner]

So you went there for two years? You went there for two years?

[Robin Green]

Well, I stayed a year. Wait for Rich to graduate from college. He was my. Yeah, I'm older than I. But he was my student.

[Rob]

There's a lot of student teacher relationships here.

[Robin Green]

Yeah. And he was my best student.

[Mitch Burgess]

We were adults.

[Rob]

So you came on the show, Robin. And then. And then. When did Mitch come on?

[Mitch Burgess]

Probably 92.

[Robin Green]

I came on. I had a show of my own that summer. When you did the pilot, when you did the six. The original six shows.

[Rob]

The original eight.

[Janine Turner]

Eight?

[Robin Green]

Was it eight? Wow. Okay. Because I had cbs. Their wisdom had given me my own show. And it was just, for various reasons, didn't work. But I was so lucky because I got to go on the show with Josh and John. John remembered me from Iowa. This was years later. It was like eight years later. What? Yeah, what?

[Mitch Burgess]

Keep going.

[Robin Green]

And John remembered me from Iowa. And I was writing restaurant reviews at the time for the LA Times, and they were funny. And John said to Josh, she could write for the show. She's a literary writer. She knows. So I wrote a script, my first script, and quit my job as I had a job as an editor on California Magazine under Harold Hayes. You know, I had a job, but, you know, then I went in television, and that's really when my life began, because I loved television. I loved writing in that way with heart and mind. You know what I mean? It wasn't journalism. It was really expressive.

[Rob]

And Mitch. So Mitch came on when?

[Robin Green]

Well, yeah, the third year. The third season.

[Rob]

Did you pitch him?

[Robin Green]

No, no. I mean, there's a real story behind it, and that's in the book, and it's not a really pretty story involving Andy and Diane, but I was having trouble at work.

[Rob]

Oh, that's right. I forgot. Give us a little bit of this. So Andy and Diane.

[Robin Green]

Really squishy.

[Rob]

You can't do a truncated version.

[Robin Green]

Well, what happened?

[Janine Turner]

We've had Andy and Diane on. So they were on a show.

[Robin Green]

I know, I know.

[Mitch Burgess]

And they were.

[Robin Green]

They popped up at Sopranos at the end, too.

[Rob]

Let's just talk about. We're talking about Andy. We had them as a guest a couple episodes ago. That's Andy Schneider and Diane Froloff, who were producers and writers on the show as well. Yeah.

[Robin Green]

And I had worked with Andy on David Chase's show my second year in television, almost grown before Northern Exposure. So I was having trouble at Work coming up with ideas. There was more to the story, but the short version is that. And Josh said. He really put it to me very harshly. And I didn't really understand that Andy and Diane were behind it, but I got demoted. My title changed because of a demand they made.

[Rob]

You went from what title to what title?

[Robin Green]

I don't know. I think I got to keep my producer title. But I want to say one thing, though. You know the book that you mentioned.

[Rob]

Rob, which I love?

[Robin Green]

Well, Spain brought me there for a tour last year in April, I went on a tour through Spain. And because Northern Exposure doesn't translate into Spanish, they called your show there, Dr. In Alaska and after. And I thought people would want to hear about the Sopranos, but they really wanted to hear in Spain about Northern Exposure.

[Janine Turner]

We have a huge following in Spain. I did some international press for Spain, Just huge.

[Robin Green]

They brought me DVD sets to sign. You know, who even has a DVD these days? It was very sweet.

[Mitch Burgess]

It was really good that the show's finally getting seen again.

[Robin Green]

I'm glad it's.

[Rob]

Can you guys talk a little bit about how an idea. This is such a complex episode with so many layers. How does something like this come about? How did it. Do you remember it all?

[Robin Green]

Well, here's the problem, is that I don't. And my name is second in the credits. So it's possible that Henry wrote it and then I polished it or something. I don't know. Maybe I had one of the storylines. I don't remember. I know some of the lines that are mine, because you tend to remember.

[Janine Turner]

Okay, so what are your lines? Tell us some of your lines.

[Robin Green]

Don't you have anything better to do than watching me live? Which is. You know, Holling said it when everyone was watching. I mean, it's something I say to Mitch on a regular basis, you know, So I know that's my line, but the others. I watched the show with such detached pleasure this morning because I could just enjoy it. And it was so rich. It was great to see everybody again, of course, but it was so rich, and there was so much story. And I honestly can't remember if Josh and John made this story. I know Henry had a huge.

[Mitch Burgess]

Are they plotting it out? Were Josh and John plotting out the episodes?

[Robin Green]

They used to plot out the episodes, and they let out. They didn't. They used to take story credit, but then they stopped. And I think that they probably had a lot to do with that. I think they probably worked with Henry on it. They must have worked with me. But it was just 40 years ago.

[Janine Turner]

30.

[Rob]

Well, good.

[Janine Turner]

35.

[Robin Green]

You know, I remember every insult that's ever been given me, but I don't remember.

[Janine Turner]

That's human nature, isn't it? Well, you know, I think that one of the questions I loved the. The reference. Reference. References to literature, you know, whether it was Henry Miller or Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, whatever it might have been. I thought that it was so rich in that regard. And I just have to say it again. It's. Before anybody could just go to Google and just like Dostoevsky. I love Dostoevsky. He's my favorite author. Um, Karma Punishment is probably my favorite book. But. But the fact that I didn't know he died as a. Gambled everything in his life away. And of course, that wasn't something you could find on the Internet back then, so it was. But I know Rob and I would love to talk about the breaking of the fourth wall, but I remember being there in the snow. I remember the cool of air that was Prime. Delivery is fast. How fast are we talking? We're talking puzzle toys and lick pad delivered so fast you can get this puppy under control fast. We're talking chew toys at your door without really waiting. Fast. Pads, cooling mat and petcam are fast and fast. And there's training T R E A T s faster than you can say sit fast. And now we can all relax and order these matching hoodies to get cozy and cute.

[Robin Green]

Fast, Fast.

[Janine Turner]

Free delivery. It's on Prime.

[Rob]

This episode is brought to you by FX's alien Earth, the official podcast. Each week, host Adam Rogers is joined by guests, including the show's creator, cast and crew. In this exclusive companion podcast. They will explore story elements, deep dive into character motivations, and offer an episode by episode behind the scenes breakdown of each terrifying chapter in this new series. Search FX's alien Earth. Wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Janine Turner]

Real snow. The beautiful. It looked beautiful there. But I have a question, and my question is when we broke. I think I probably had this question at the time, too. It's coming back to. It's all coming back to me now.

[Rob]

Maybe we should set it up a little, Janine, just so the audience knows what we're talking about. So. So let's just. So. So there's a duel. Because Nikolai and Maurice are feuding. Have always.

[Janine Turner]

It was an American Russian thing. It was. It was like a democracy versus communism element to it as well.

[Rob]

Absolutely. And also they have this traditional. They always are in competition and they. They play an annual chess game and Maurice accuses Nikolai of cheating and N takes. I think it's my glove. And slaps Maurice in the old traditional way that you. You ask someone to have a duel, and that they're going to have a duel out in the middle of a field. And the whole town, of course, like everything, it becomes a spectator event.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. And everybody's excited about it, except Fleischmann is like. Do you know what happens when you're, like. You're shot and then you bleed and then. But then all of a sudden, when they're marching and they're going to kill each other, we break what we call the fourth wall, which is. Means we jump out of character. But then we didn't jump out of character. And so they said, stop rolling. Or it was kind of. That kind of thing. It was. Let's talk about this. The next scene is really good. So we were talking to each other as actors. But what I found to be really interesting, which could fit into this whole duality, you know, parallel universe type of thing, is that when we broke the fourth wall, we still referred to each other as Fleischman and o'. Connell. So we broke the fourth wall as actors, but we didn't refer to each other with our own names. We still referred to each other in our character names. And I'm curious what you. If y' all remember that. I remember that confusing me at the time, if there was a reason for that.

[Robin Green]

Well, when I watched it this morning, I was amazed how well it worked. And it was so. It was so subtly done in a certain way because Rob talks about our sophisticated television audience, you know, and we can't. There's no good solution. And it became really a description of a writer's room and the various. Somebody refers to the fifth revision. And it was made obvious that there had been several ways that writers who had painted ourselves into a corner, quite frankly, couldn't figure out a way out.

[Rob]

So all the actors. All the actors in the cast start arguing about the plot of the episode as if they were an audience, and they reference the fact that the audience is sophisticated. And again, I would say this is probably yet another literary illusion in a kind of postmodern device where we step out and start talking. But I do remember Janine, I remember us kind of going, wait a minute. If I'm not my character, if I'm talking about the show as if I'm an. As if I'm outside of it objectively, but yet I'm talking to. I'm referencing people's character names, which is it. And it was so hard to get our heads around. Remember Josh just saying, well, you know, something like, well, that's just the way it is. You know, just. Just do it.

[Robin Green]

And.

[Rob]

And nobody made it. And I think. And the way we, you know, it's so great the way we get out of it. They never really. They never really deal with it as a device. It's just kind. I think maybe they were. You guys were. Might have been thrown in the writing room of how to end it. So all of a sudden, Elaine says, as Marilyn says, let's go on to the next scene. It's better. It's really good.

[Janine Turner]

Yes.

[Robin Green]

And.

[Janine Turner]

And then she is actually playing the piano when Ilya is singing his song. I'm like, oh, look, that's. That's Elaine playing the piano.

[Robin Green]

I will say about the duel and breaking the fourth wall, it shouldn't have worked, but it really works. I bought it. In other words, it seemed organic. It seemed interesting.

[Janine Turner]

Maybe it's interesting that we didn't say our names because that's done a lot today, right? People just look to the camera and they talk to the camera. It was never really that familiar. It was like, we're breaking the fourth wall. We realize we're. But. But then again, we're still kind of us, but we're not us. And I guess you can look at that as an alternative universe kind of interesting sort of thing. But at the. Really confusing to us.

[Robin Green]

But it worked.

[Janine Turner]

But it.

[Robin Green]

It did work.

[Janine Turner]

It helped us slide back into it at the. In the next scene. I think the fact.

[Robin Green]

Because it had the same playful tone of the show.

[Janine Turner]

Because if I'd said I was Janine, then Janine had to get back into character.

[Robin Green]

No, that would have been harsher. That's a whole different.

[Mitch Burgess]

That would have been really confusing.

[Robin Green]

Yeah, that's interesting.

[Janine Turner]

When you break the fourth wall, though, you are. You are an actress referring to the scenes. But I think it's kind of interesting is what I'm saying, that we didn't become Jeanine and Rob because then we could slide right back into it.

[Rob]

As far as I remember, that was the only time we ever did that.

[Janine Turner]

Yes, that's what I was thinking.

[Robin Green]

Yeah, there was a hue and cry. You know, I don't know if it was from the viewer or it was from you guys or what, but it was. I don't think you'd want to do it again. I think we got away with it in that instant. And I did not notice that you kept in your characters names. That probably really helped somebody Was think maybe Josh. I don't remember. I don't remember. But I will say. Well, I will say that Henry is probably responsible for all the knowledge about Dostoevsky and Tolstoy and all of that, all the literary stuff. And I think that the breaking of the fourth wall is a kind of literary conceit. And it worked like that in some literary way.

[Mitch Burgess]

It's totally with the show. You said tonally with the show.

[Robin Green]

It was in the tone of the show.

[Rob]

It was in the tone of the show. But I do remember, as we talk about it, I rem. Remember we were. I think we might have even lobbied to say, let's not do it again. And I can only imagine that the network was like, please don't do it again.

[Janine Turner]

It was really, really fascinating. I thought the entire show. Talk about the duality of it. I think duality was. Was one of the main major themes. Everything had a. Had a. I guess wonderful duality was with. With the young character. I can't even. What is Anderson?

[Robin Green]

Light feather.

[Janine Turner]

Light feather. She was sexual. She was sexual, you know, but the duality in that is. She loved the words. And that was so rich because that fit in with. Rob and I talk a lot about the three storylines, you know, fitting in together. The fact that she loved the words fit into the fact that we were reading Chekov or. No, Tolstoy. We were reading Tolstoy and that everything, you know, play. So it was everything about the character and the duality. Talk about the duality. Because I thought that was really interesting.

[Robin Green]

I can't. I don't. I'm not. I'm not a good thinker in that way. But I. What I really think about that storyline is that she was a really good actress. This flat affect that she had, that. This expressionless tone. But I don't. I don't think theoretically in terms of duality, and I can't. I don't think even in the writing of it, in the room we ever thought of it like that. It's wonderful that you can take that from it, but I don't think there's an intention there.

[Janine Turner]

But, you know, that's what they do with poetry. What do you think they were saying in that particular stanza?

[Robin Green]

I wish Henry were here.

[Mitch Burgess]

That's very common with scripts. It's very common in scripts that people take different things of it. You know, when we were. I've been in the room a million, million rooms. And you think. No, I don't think anybody was thinking that.

[Rob]

Right. The whole Cyrano thing is Interesting. Like everything's literary, you know, that was.

[Janine Turner]

A duality, too, because it wasn't really him.

[Robin Green]

I really wish that Henry hadn't was here. I wish he hadn't died. A and B, he could really explain everything because he really does have this huge literary sense.

[Rob]

So in order to kind of woo Lightfeather, Ed goes to Chris because he doesn't feel like he has the words at his disposal. So he has Chris write this letter which is riffing on the Cyrano device, and Chris writes all these allusions to motorcycles and stuff, and it ends up backfiring. But. But it's. It's. It's. It's really charming, you know, all of that. I think my favorite literary reference was Nikolaj calls Shelley a Nabokovian jewel.

[Robin Green]

Yeah. You know what I love? I loved when Chris said to light feather. That was it. Baudelaire did a lot of really interesting. With cat fur. With wet.

[Janine Turner]

Yes, I mentioned that earlier. Yes. Yeah, I had that earlier. He talks about Henry Miller and that Baudelaire tug did an interesting thing with cat fur.

[Robin Green]

Eroticizing.

[Janine Turner]

Eroticizing, yes.

[Robin Green]

The landscape. And so I guess that's a duality right there. But because the landscape isn't erotic. Well, I guess it is eroticized. But who was it that wrote about Katz for? Was it Baudelaire or was it in the script?

[Janine Turner]

It said Baudelaire.

[Robin Green]

That's Fleur de Montreal. Oh, it did?

[Janine Turner]

Yes. Baudelaire.

[Robin Green]

Fleur de Mal or something.

[Rob]

Hey, Henry. Henry, can you pick out the themes that were in play in the episode?

[Janine Turner]

You mean Mitch?

[Rob]

I mean Mitch. Henry. Of course I'm calling you. Henry.

[Janine Turner]

Henry, come talk to us from the parallel universe. But.

[Robin Green]

No, but just like.

[Mitch Burgess]

But Henry was a real intellectual. I mean, he was the real deal.

[Robin Green]

But I would also. But we don't. We know. I don't think we ever did things thematically. Really.

[Rob]

I can't believe that. I don't know how that came out.

[Janine Turner]

I can't imagine.

[Robin Green]

I think that one thing might lead to another. Do you know what I mean? Might inform the other. But I don't remember us ever trying to tie things together thematically.

[Rob]

And when you watched the episode, did they not jump out at you?

[Robin Green]

I know what you're talking about. I do know what you're talking about. But I. I don't think it was done with intention.

[Rob]

Right. That's so fascinating because I think the.

[Robin Green]

Depth of the analysis that Janine is bringing to it about duality and all that stuff, you know, we were just.

[Mitch Burgess]

Putting words in actors, but who beat the story out.

[Robin Green]

A story.

[Mitch Burgess]

The people who beat the story out are the ones who put the scenes in it. So I don't know.

[Robin Green]

Yeah, well, I know in episodes that were my idea, which I don't think this was, I think this must have been Henry, who unfortunately can't speak to this, and I must have come and worked on it afterwards, which I had to do sometimes, you know, to punch up a script or something like that. But I'll ask Josh. We see Josh. He lives here on the north floor.

[Janine Turner]

That's another thing that I simply love. And I talk about it every episode because I think we yearn for it. And that's why people love Northern Exposure so much, is just the community that we're all always there together, whether they're playing chess, you know, where. Where everybody's there in the bar. You know, Rob's Fleischman's there looking bored. You know, every. Cynthia and I are smoking. You know, Maggie OConnell and. And Shelly, they're smoke. We're smoking cigarettes. And it. It just has a. The. The whole town is there to experience it. And I want to give a. A call out to Peg Phillips, because, God bless her, she passed right after the show wrapped. And this was kind of a real. She had the most to do, I think, in this episode so far, really, yet. And she just did a wonderful job. And I want to give a shout out to Katherine, who did the costumes, the hats that. The Russian theme, and the little hats that Peg Phillips had on with the scarf around her neck. And Peg Phillips, really? I thought she played Ruthanne in the corner store. And the way she lit up the screen I thought was really beautiful in this episode. So there you go, Phillips.

[Rob]

I agree. You know, I always say that Chris, you get. You guys gave Chris such interesting stuff. And the way he, you know, wields his spirituality in. With his. His. His literary sensibilities is always fascinating. How he takes. Response, integrity. He.

[Robin Green]

He.

[Rob]

He represents such integrity, you know, he. He takes responsibility for his karma, you know, and. And yet he. And he's so.

[Robin Green]

So.

[Rob]

But he's so open to what con. You know, the way he deals with Ed wanting to get married, he's like, you know, yeah, sure, get married. Get one under your belt. You know, it's just so like, get.

[Robin Green]

One under your belt.

[Janine Turner]

That's a great line. Get one under your belt.

[Robin Green]

I love the way he blew off lights on there, too. It was so sweet.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. He can't be with a girl who has freckles it's like, I can't be with a girl. Yeah, I know. I was like, put some freckles on her. But. But. But, you know, there was a. There was a moment that I thought was so great because she sat down and he put his hand on her top of her head. Kind of like a paternal little thing, like, I'm gonna. You know, I'm gonna connect you with literature. And he starts teaching. I thought, did you catch that, Rob? It was an actor thing, but I thought that was a wonderful little moment.

[Rob]

So sweet. And then. And then at the end, he looks like Yoko Uno with the.

[Robin Green]

With the.

[Rob]

With the beret and the glasses. Like.

[Robin Green]

Oh, yeah. I love the chess scene. I love the fact that the show could slow down to that extent. And, you know, and Rob was the only one. He's like, in that ad for the Philadelphia Inquirer. He's the only one who's bored because it was, you know. But it was done with such humor, that scene. It was just brilliant that you all knew about chess and everything.

[Janine Turner]

I loved the. I thought about the art direction and Woody, once again, we talk about him almost every episode as well. But the big blanket with the Velcro chest, pieces that were moved.

[Rob]

I mean, I thought, that's so clever.

[Janine Turner]

But it's just that sense of community. Don't you. Don't you yearn for it? I do. I live up here in the country, and I'm. I'm trying to get all. All the neighborhood together. I'm starting to have, you know, community parties, but not like, block parties, because we're all sort of far away, but just to get together and. And get to know each other. And I had one at Christmas, and now we're going to go ride horses together and do things together. But that's sort of a lost community art.

[Mitch Burgess]

That's why the brick still works so well for the show, because you could bring everybody together.

[Robin Green]

All works.

[Rob]

Right, Right. And we should also, while we're throwing out, we should again just say how great Bill d' Elia was as a director. You know, I mean, he really. He really. All of the kind of nuances and touches. And, you know, you talked. Janine, you talked about Corbett's gesture, Chris's gesture to Lightfeather, you know, the paternal thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Bill said, you know, you know, as an aside to John to do it, you know, he just had a great. Yeah, he was. Really had a great, great sensibility.

[Janine Turner]

He was also very kind, wonderful with.

[Robin Green]

Which to learn you gotta remember, we were down in Los Angeles in the writing room, and we weren't. We weren't there up in Seattle nearly enough, you know, but you were all together up there in this. This isolation kind of. You know.

[Rob]

I know I'm of two. I'm of two minds about that.

[Janine Turner]

What's your other mind?

[Rob]

No, one. One. One on one mind. I like that. You know, but as the show, in the beginning, it was hard, but once we got kind of on. On a roll, I like that we could kind of make decisions on the fly without having to get LA involved, you know, and so it was. It was.

[Robin Green]

You're allowed to do that, really? Yeah.

[Rob]

You know, I mean, not in any major way, but what just surpasses us, Whereas when we first started shooting, if. If it was raining and this. And the line was, hey, it's such a beautiful sunny day, you know, you'd have to have three calls and shut down production and. But eventually. And so I think that served it. But I do remember whenever you did come up, you guys, it was always. You were just such a warm and smart presence and. And your talent preceded you. So it was just. It was. We felt lucky when we did get to have you up there.

[Janine Turner]

And how many episodes did y' all write for the show?

[Rob]

18. Wow.

[Robin Green]

But we had hands, you know, we had a hand in others and talk.

[Janine Turner]

About having your hand in others.

[Mitch Burgess]

We did most of the rewriting.

[Robin Green]

Rewriting, yeah.

[Mitch Burgess]

Probably punching up something didn't quite get.

[Robin Green]

To the standard that they wanted or just for eczema.

[Janine Turner]

Isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from EBGLIS. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EVGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly Dosingab.

[Rob]

LBKZ. A 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used once with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief.

[Janine Turner]

Ask your doctor about EBGLIS and visit epgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. Ford BlueCruise hands free. Highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel, allowing you to relax and reconnect while also staying in control. Enjoy the drive in Bluecruise enabled vehicles like the F150 Explorer and Mustang Mach E. Available feature on equipped vehicles. Terms apply. Does not replace safe driving. See Ford.com BlueCruise for more details.

[Robin Green]

Continuity Safe. Yeah.

[Rob]

Which means also a lot of people don't realize that you may see in television and in the movies, I guess you may see somewhat get credit and they may not have written. There's a lot of writers that have made great careers off of scripts that they didn't write. Because what happens is if you're a producer on a show like, like Robin and Mitch, you are, you know, and the script comes in from a writer who's not a staff writer. The, the, the showrunners, Josh and John would, would, you know, maybe not be happy with it. And they'd hand it off to Robin for a weekend and say, hey, Robin, you know, make this thing work, you know, and then. But Robin wouldn't get credit. You know, she'd get her regular credit.

[Robin Green]

Yeah, we got, you got paid.

[Rob]

You got real credit.

[Robin Green]

We got enough credit.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, interesting.

[Robin Green]

And Josh was really good about always honoring the original writer with a credit.

[Rob]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

It was really, which is nice because, you know, I've written a, I've written what I call a Broadway musical because it's gonna make it one day no matter how long it takes me. But it's a musical and, you know, playwrights have a lot of power, you know, in the theatrical world. But, but in this film world, you know, if an actor, if sells his script to say, you know, Tom Cruise from Mission Impossible, it may change a thousand times and the writer's just excluded. So it was nice that there was this family affair and that y' all were always included and a part of the process. And you were exactly. You were producers too.

[Robin Green]

So television, the writer has more power.

[Janine Turner]

Right, Right. And the executive producers are the bosses.

[Mitch Burgess]

Yeah, there's not that many writers and there wasn't that many writers North Exposure or any of the shows. We weren't Supposed. Me and Robin, Andy and Diane, Jeff Melvoin, and we bring.

[Janine Turner]

Jeff Melvoin was wonderful as well.

[Rob]

Henry was a staff. Yeah.

[Robin Green]

He was staff. Definitely a producer of some kind. But he was just starting off his career, you know, in television.

[Rob]

And he was your teacher. I find that. I love that.

[Robin Green]

I know we read Proust for one entire.

[Janine Turner]

But see, that's why the shows were so great. Y' all were literary writers. You weren't. You weren't out of USC film school to be a television writer.

[Mitch Burgess]

We were older, too, and we were old. We weren't 26 years old, you know.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, but you were literary writers. And I think that that really comes across. You know, Rob and I worked with a lot of directors in 110 episodes or whatever. We. We both did. But you could tell that there's some director straight out of USC film school, right, who knew technically what to do, but didn't know how to talk to actors at all, you know, so it's just great when you get. You get a duality there and the fact that y all had a literary sense that you could bring to the scripts, because there was nothing ever until the end, I believe, ordinary about the scripts. The scripts were always profound. The dialogue was rich. It was interesting. There weren't things like huh or stuff or, you know, there were no. There were no colloquialisms there. There were not any slang things. It was beautifully written, as I'm. I'm a writer, so I. Grammatically is kind of my thing. Grammatically. It was written beautifully. It was. It was literary.

[Mitch Burgess]

You know, but when it really got rolling, we tried to outdo ourselves, like me and Robin, we tried to outdo Andy and Diana Melvoy habit. We read them, like, with competition, a good natured competition. It was really. We were really firing up by three years. The third year I was firing up.

[Robin Green]

We delighted in the writing of it and we delighted in the show. It was really fun. Really fun to write.

[Rob]

Did you guys have anything like, how did it work in post? Did you work in terms of overseeing an edit or. It was just. If you wrote the show, did you oversee the editor?

[Robin Green]

I think Josh and John did that stuff.

[Rob]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

So you didn't really Bruce Lee?

[Robin Green]

No, I don't think we did. I remember being. And the directors. Yeah, and the directors. And, you know, when you add dialogue at the end, I want a couple of those adr.

[Rob]

Yeah. So wait, so you didn't weigh in on cuts?

[Robin Green]

No, I don't think so.

[Rob]

That's interesting.

[Robin Green]

Josh was very much the boss and John, you know.

[Janine Turner]

Well, I was even looking at the opening scene of all the random edits in John columns and Holling's dream. I mean, those were some cool things to pull. And once again, they were not easily found. I don't even know in that day how you would go find all those clips. How do you find them now? We're so used to Google. How do you go find. How would they find all those random clips to pull together for those crazy dreams that Hollywood.

[Robin Green]

I have to believe that that would be Josh and John, because I don't remember any discussion. I don't know where you.

[Janine Turner]

Where would you even go, Rob?

[Rob]

I mean, they have libraries and they were categorized. And you would just say, you know, you'd go.

[Janine Turner]

You'd have to go to a library or something. I mean, they weren't on a computer.

[Rob]

Well, no, but you make a phone call and someone would.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, but think of all the different cuts. There were like 30 different cuts in that opening.

[Rob]

Getting.

[Janine Turner]

There are many different cuts.

[Mitch Burgess]

You always said it was before the Internet. We practically lived in the Beverly Hills library researching these scripts. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it took a lot.

[Rob]

And those clips may have all come from one library. So you could kind of go and. And look at what's.

[Janine Turner]

You might go to an MGM lot.

[Rob]

Like Universal, like a Dr. Chivago, you know, that was whoever. Whatever studio, MGM, maybe.

[Janine Turner]

But, I mean, it was like. It was like freeways falling down and things falling from the Scott sky and.

[Robin Green]

Yeah, Stock.

[Rob]

Stock.

[Robin Green]

Stock foot about that, too. What did Josh talk about with you?

[Rob]

He talked about so much. He gave us so many insights, you know, and, you know, one of the big distinctions that we came away with, Deneen and I kept think. I don't know where we got it, but I. But we think it might have. I haven't figured this out yet. We don't want to get David Chase on here, but I think David Chase said it derogatorily that he called the show a benevolent universe. And Janine and I both like that. We understand why it may not be completely realistic, but Josh told us that it was not a. It wasn't. He didn't think of it as benevolent universe. He thought of it as. What was it, Janine?

[Janine Turner]

Non judgmental universe.

[Rob]

Non judgmental universe. Which. Which is more. When I watch the show, that's. That's from an objective point of view, that's probably more what we're going after.

[Robin Green]

That's right.

[Janine Turner]

I think it depends on where non judgment comes from. If you think it Comes from a benevolence, you know, to be of love.

[Rob]

That's a good point. Yeah, it's a very good point.

[Janine Turner]

Then it's benevolent. I think it depends on your ideology.

[Robin Green]

Well, Josh and John had seen this movie with Burt Lancaster with it and the actor, you know, it took place in Scotland or something.

[Rob]

Yeah, it was Local Hero.

[Robin Green]

Torture me if I need to watch that.

[Rob]

Local Hero by Bill Forsyth starring my friend Peter Riegert.

[Robin Green]

Oh, Peter Riegert. That's the name. I couldn't remember, but I think they said that that was the tonal inspiration because that was a non judgmental universe. And of course, David Chase was very much. I mean, Sopranos was the very judgmental universe. Yeah, right.

[Rob]

Well, that's why. That's why I was gonna ask you. What. So you were there when David came in, right?

[Robin Green]

Yes.

[Rob]

And what was the difference when he. David Chase, who in the audience you all know, went on to write, as far as I'm concerned, one of the top five best shows in the history of television. The Sopranos, which Mitch and Rob went on to work on and. And produce. And also Andy and Diane and also Martin, Bruce Lee. So he took some. He took people from Northern Exposure. But what was. How would you say the show changed when he came on?

[Robin Green]

Well, you left.

[Rob]

No, no, no, not for two years. He was there for. I left. I left. I left for two years, right, yeah, he was there for two season, two, four.

[Robin Green]

So how does one season. Well, I thought that he brought in, you know, that comedian and everything.

[Rob]

He was there for that. But I was. But he was. I worked with him a lot. I did a lot of episodes. Oh, yeah.

[Robin Green]

I don't know. I feel like after John and Josh. Josh and John left.

[Rob]

That was after 66 episodes. Josh and John left.

[Robin Green]

Wow. Well, that's a long. That's a lot of episodes. But that's true. Television and network, you do a lot of episodes. But I think we did some very good work with David. But I would say that David was very resistant to the show, but he didn't let that get in the way of his delivering the show, if you know what I mean.

[Rob]

I absolutely agree.

[Janine Turner]

But the tone of it changed.

[Mitch Burgess]

But, you know, I mean, David came from a. He's a great TV writer and he really delivered. He knew how to do the story work. A brilliant guy. But he did change the tone of Exposure.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. And then we got a new cinematographer too, and suddenly everything was dark.

[Robin Green]

What was that? That's interesting.

[Janine Turner]

I don't even his name, but suddenly Everyone.

[Rob]

We had three cinematographers. Jimmy.

[Janine Turner]

And I'm in a washroom.

[Rob]

Jimmy Haymon established the look of the show, and then Frank Prinzy came on for a couple seasons, and then Gordon Lonsdale came on and. Thank you.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. And he was. Not that. He was a bad cinematographer. It just got dark. The show got dark. But anyway, I don't think this show needs to become dark.

[Rob]

They were all different. They all brought a different aesthetic, and I think each one kind of defined it in their own way. And. And, you know, I. Over. When I watched the whole series, over six years, I found sex always interesting stuff all throughout. Even the last 10, which is very controversial, those last 10 episodes. But. But I thought they were. There was interesting stuff. Always. Mitch, what. What do you. Do you have any specific memories of shows that you. That you love, that you were involved in, that you wrote? Wrote?

[Mitch Burgess]

Yeah, I mean, I. I mean, I wrote without some of the credit. Without, you know, the one where Maggie burns down her house. I don't know if I. Oh, my God.

[Robin Green]

That's my.

[Janine Turner]

That's one of my favorites. It's not what you fling. It's the fling itself. So did y' all write that line? You wrote that line?

[Robin Green]

We wrote that show. We really did write that.

[Janine Turner]

There were T shirts. It's not what you fling, but it's the fling itself.

[Robin Green]

But you said to your mother, you ruined my life with your divorce. And then you ruined my life by burning down. You know, it's just wonderful. You were sitting on a bench with her. I remember everything about that show.

[Janine Turner]

And her espadurles, her espadural shoes. Remember her espadurl?

[Rob]

Yeah, but are you guys not credited with that?

[Mitch Burgess]

No, I think.

[Robin Green]

No, that we were. But let me tell you, I didn't cover too much. Here's what happened. I was having trouble coming up with story ideas, although I think I did come up with that one one Burning down the House. But Mitch. I said to Mitch, and we started working together at this point, think of some ideas. And he did. He thought of the idea where Maurice had a Korean son. Remember that show, the Korean Sun Comes? It's a perfect Maurice story. And burning down the house. And there was one other one. And I took those three ideas to Josh as my own.

[Mitch Burgess]

Anyway, we had some shows, but we.

[Robin Green]

Didn'T get to write the Christmas one because he had promised it to Andy and Diane. They wanted Christ to come to town, but he likes this one better.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, Christ coming to town.

[Robin Green]

That would have been cool.

[Mitch Burgess]

When I first started, we did this. Remember the Three Amigos? That beautiful one with the snow.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Mitch Burgess]

Where they're coming dragging the body from, you know.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, that was their big show on the horses and everything, wasn't it?

[Robin Green]

Maybe.

[Janine Turner]

Okay, sure.

[Mitch Burgess]

The problem was that it didn't really work work when they put it together. So the film was. Got together, but the story, the dialogue didn't work. So we had to go to an ADR st. We probably wrote ADR all the dialogues. When you see it again, it'll be on back. The backs of people. They won't be correctly. And I said to Robert, why don't we just write the dialogue correctly the first time? ADR studio.

[Janine Turner]

Well.

[Robin Green]

And have a directing problem.

[Mitch Burgess]

But it's.

[Janine Turner]

Which show are we talking about? The Three Amigos had a direction.

[Robin Green]

Yeah. And well, the storytelling just wasn't paced. And so the show had to be repaced. Paced. B, A, C, D and recut. And then ADR and then a musical score. It was really.

[Rob]

It's coming back to me now. I remember. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

They all had eight hours of looping.

[Mitch Burgess]

We had like days of trying to figure out the dialogue on people's back. And what else was good? I mean, there was a lot of, you know, Shelly has her baby. That was a good.

[Robin Green]

Oh, Shelly having her baby.

[Mitch Burgess]

That was a good story. I mean, you guys didn't like Bus Stop. Remember the Bus Stop episode?

[Robin Green]

Ruthanne didn't like Bus Stop.

[Janine Turner]

I remember Bus Stop.

[Mitch Burgess]

Yeah. They were gonna put us.

[Robin Green]

The actors turned on each other, you know, but they weren't actors. They were townspeople. But they wanted more lines.

[Mitch Burgess]

We'll talk about this one more. It's fun stuff.

[Rob]

Well, we're gonna. We're gonna wind it down here. But we love having you guys and we hope we can bring you back again. We'll. We'll. You know, I'm sorry that I didn't.

[Mitch Burgess]

20 times.

[Robin Green]

I hope we were good guests and.

[Janine Turner]

I hope you're a great guest. Great guest. And look, you know, there. The great thing about podcasts is you can say it how it is. And. And obviously, I. I want to just go on record. I think David Chase is brilliant. You know, it's just. It was different for our show and I was very, very possessive, protective of it. You know what I mean? But I think it's. It's wonderful that to have y' all here and to see your faces again.

[Robin Green]

I'm gonna be 80 this month, you know.

[Janine Turner]

80. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Wow.

[Rob]

You look great.

[Robin Green]

Horrible. It's like.

[Janine Turner]

You look great. You look awesome.

[Robin Green]

And I guess I'm just fishing for that.

[Mitch Burgess]

I'm glad you guys brought this thing together again. Again. Because it's a. I'm glad it's talking about. I'm glad people are getting to see the younger people. Yeah, it's fun.

[Rob]

It's fun.

[Robin Green]

It really lasted. It lasted well.

[Janine Turner]

It did. It holds up. Rob and I talk about that a lot. That the show, really. It holds.

[Rob]

Even aesthetically, it holds up, which we find fascinating.

[Robin Green]

Yes, I think that's true.

[Janine Turner]

Common themes that I think people want even more today than they ever wanted, which is the benevolent universe.

[Rob]

For those of you out there. Remember, read Robin's book. It's really. It's really tr. Charming, and you'll get a sense of her. It's called the Only Girl My Life and Times. Yeah, it's really fun.

[Robin Green]

And it's got all the dish in it, you know?

[Rob]

Yeah, there's. There's some. There's some. No ext in there, too. Yeah.

[Robin Green]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

There may be something about me in there.

[Rob]

I don't know.

[Robin Green]

No, no, no, no.

[Mitch Burgess]

We had a blast writing only.

[Robin Green]

Good thing.

[Mitch Burgess]

We had a lot of fun writing the shows. It was.

[Rob]

It was great to see you guys. I'm so glad you're continuing to keep writing and creat. Look forward to whatever you guys.

[Robin Green]

And breathing, also. Breathing is.

[Rob]

And breathing, I think.

[Janine Turner]

Breathing. Breathing. My dad used to always say, but I would say, dad, how you doing today? And he'd look at me and he'd say, I'm still here.

[Mitch Burgess]

See you guys again.

[Robin Green]

Yeah.

[Mitch Burgess]

If you need to ask questions of anything we wrote. Shoot. Rob.

[Robin Green]

No, you can give me notes, Arsenal, about, you know, our performance.

[Janine Turner]

No, come back, because we have 110 of these. So it'll be great to have you come back.

[Robin Green]

And y' all are awesome talking about it.

[Janine Turner]

And I echo what Rob said when. Whenever we saw your name on a script, we were very excited. And it was always a joy to see you on the set when y' all visited, and. And it was just great fun to see you eight years ago or so. And.

[Robin Green]

Yes, it was.

[Janine Turner]

That was a lot of fun.

[Robin Green]

There's a lot of good feelings here, too. Yeah.

[Mitch Burgess]

Bye.

[Robin Green]

Bye. Thank you for having us.

[Mitch Burgess]

Okay, thanks. Bye. Bye.

[Janine Turner]

So we'll see you next week. You can also, if you haven't heard the other episode, you can go back and listen to the previous episodes as well.

[Rob]

And hit that subscribe button.

[Janine Turner]

Hit the subscribe button. And you can watch it on Amazon Prime, Prime Video, whatever it's called, and Rob. I'll see you next week. And we're signing off from o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Rob]

Actually, I think it's. I think it's a Fleischman, o'.

[Janine Turner]

Connell. In your dreams, Fleischmann. Northern Disclosure is a production with evergreen.

[Robin Green]

Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media. This is one of the most spectacular venues with all kinds of character and hospitality, scenery.

[Janine Turner]

These people in this Kitas Valley, they love when you come to see what.

[Rob]

They have to offer. I'm J.J. harris, an Ellensburg rodeo clown, and I want to invite you to the rodeo. Come hang out with us in Ellensburg. Great rodeo. Great time. Two performances on Saturday. One is the Extreme Bulls of the Year event. Do not miss The Ellensburg Rodeo, August 29th through September 1st. We'll see you there.