S2E7: “Slow Dance” with Don McManus

Summary

Northern Disclosure: S2E7 "Slow Dance" with Don McManus

Podcast: Evergreen Podcasts
Date: August 26, 2025
Episode Focus: A heartfelt and humorous revisitation of “Slow Dance” (Northern Exposure, S2E7), featuring in-depth discussion from co-stars Rob Morrow, Janine Turner, and guest Don McManus on storylines, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, LGBTQ+ representation, and the enduring quirk and humanity of Cicely, Alaska.

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Episode Overview

This episode of Northern Disclosure reunites Rob Morrow and Janine Turner (Joel Fleischman and Maggie O’Connell) with guest Don McManus (Ron) to dive deeply into "Slow Dance," one of the most beloved and boundary-pushing episodes of the early ‘90s dramedy Northern Exposure. The conversation covers the episode’s intertwining story threads—Maggie’s supposed romantic “jinx” and quirky grieving process, the show’s landmark gay marriage storyline, and the universal themes of loneliness and acceptance that helped define the series.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Fan Connection and Enduring Legacy

• Rob and Janine open with tales from their recent convention experience, reflecting on the show's emotional impact on lifelong fans who traveled from around the country.
  • Quote (Janine Turner, 02:14):
    "It was just a lovely experience to connect with everybody just on a person, humanity to humanity, you know, heart to heart sort of way."
• Both reveal how streaming has brought a new, younger audience to Northern Exposure.

2. Episode Structure and Storylines

• A Story: Maggie's Boyfriend “Jinx”

  • Maggie loses (yet another) boyfriend in an absurd tragedy—a satellite falling out of the sky. This leads the town to debate whether she is truly ‘cursed,’ leading to both comic and touching moments.
  • The show skillfully balances humor with genuine grief, as Janine discusses her approach to portraying layered emotion amidst comedic circumstances.
    • Quote (Janine Turner, 12:44):
      "The producers afterwards were upset with me because I had been emotional...they wanted it to be funny. And I kept saying, but it’s only funny if you have, you know, different characters playing against each other."
  • Behind-the-scenes note: Janine details being asked to re-record ("loop") her funeral lines to tone down her grief, highlighting tensions behind balancing drama and comedy.

• B Story: The Gay Couple and Maurice’s Prejudices

  • Guest Don McManus discusses his role in one of network TV’s first gay marriage storylines, and the subtle, “matter of fact” way it was incorporated into the show’s universe.
    • Quote (Don McManus, 19:04): "A number of times, I can't tell you how many times guys walked up to me on the street and said, thank you for doing the show. It helped me come out."
  • The hosts marvel at how Maurice’s “tolerance” bends in the face of profit, and how John Corbett’s (Chris) kindness and acceptance stand out as ahead of its time.
  • The storyline receives external praise—for example, ACT UP naming their portrayal the “most gay positive representation on television.”

• C Story: Holling, Shelly, and Anita

  • The subplot of Holling’s former flame and Shelly’s insecurities highlights Cynthia Geary’s (Shelly) growth as an actor and brings levity and warmth.
    • Quote (Don McManus, 40:38):
      “John Cullum had been a Broadway star for decades...and he was paired with Cynthia, who was fresh off the boat. That was just delightful.”

3. Music Rights and Emotional Impact

• Janine lobbies Universal to retain the show’s original music for streaming, specifically mentioning her longtime love for Etta James’ “At Last” in the final dance scene.
  • Quote (Janine Turner, 08:25):
    "This was the first time I'd watched the show this morning, and I saw that they actually kept it. They got it, so kudos to them."

4. Representation and Social Commentary

• The panel discusses how Northern Exposure handled gay storylines compared to contemporary TV, noting advances and the ongoing need for honest, non-stereotyped portrayals.
  • They debate whether today’s TV would allow a character like Maurice to voice open discomfort, in the name of both realism and character growth.
    • Quote (Don McManus, 35:01): “It would either be comedically hilarious, ridiculous, or it would be a villainous thing to do.”
  • Don shares how the role positively impacted his career and personal encounters, even as some warned of being “typecast.”

5. Crafting the Show: Acting, Directing, and On-Set Stories

• Creating Emotional Contrast:
  • The importance of playing Maggie’s grief “for real,” even while others play the situation for laughs.
• Technical Notes:
  • Discussion of working with directors (notably David Carson) and cinematographers, and how lighting or shot design shaped scenes.
• Dancing Scene Logistics:
  • Multiple takes, cigarette prop challenges, and “click tracks” to simulate the final music.

6. Philosophical Reflections and Thematic Resonance

• The theme of acceptance—of self, of others, of the messiness of life—emerges as the show’s emotional bedrock.
• The hosts reflect on the series’ unique combination of quirkiness, openness, and “community as companionship,” especially for characters (and viewers) who feel lonely or “different.”
  • Quote (Don McManus, 50:02): “It was an inclusive community...by watching us accept each other, I think the audience got a little feel good off of that. I would be accepted there.”
• They muse about whether “closure” and acceptance are rare commodities in present-day culture.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On the show’s mix of humor and heartache:
  • Rob: "Her current boyfriend, Rick...he dies. And so...in everyone’s conscious that maybe she has a, there’s a jinx on her." (09:35)
• On playing grief straight in comedy:
  • Janine: "It’s only funny if you have, you know, different characters playing against each other. So they [the producers] were upset with me...they wanted to try to change my whole performance." (14:09)
• Don on the significance of his role:
  • "It actually had a real life implication, and that's extremely gratifying." (19:04)
• On music and emotional memory:
  • Janine: “I loved that Etta James song ‘At Last’…when I get married someday, that's going to be my theme song.” (07:21)
• On the iconic final dance:
  • Janine: "Everybody comes on the dance floor...then the two of you, Don, your two characters, come on the dance floor and you dance together. I mean, how often had that happened on television?" (31:49)
• Rob on the show’s inclusivity and longevity:
  • “That’s a big feature of why, you know, it’s...an inclusive place.” (50:46)
• On the show's enduring relevance:
  • Rob: “Here we are…Chris is talking about AI, robots…[and] the gay marriage storyline. Things we were talking about then, we're talking about now.” (44:02)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Fan interaction and show legacy: 01:26 – 03:23
• Episode introduction and plot set-up: 03:56 – 05:56
• Behind-the-scenes on Maggie’s “jinx” and looping story: 05:39 – 14:37
• Don McManus introduction and discussion of casting/gay storyline: 15:47 – 23:51
• Breakdown of episode’s three main storylines: 22:50 – 25:54
• Social/cultural reflections on gay storylines in TV: 31:49 – 36:05
• Dance scene, technical discussion, and emotional closure: 31:49 – 47:53
• Comparisons to Twin Peaks and other series: 48:01 – 49:47
• Reflections on the show's ongoing resonance/theme of acceptance: 49:54 – 57:01
• Farewell and closing thoughts: 57:04 – 58:24

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Tone & Style

• Playful, candid, and thoughtful—conversations flow naturally between humor and earnest reminiscence.
• The hosts and guest maintain the warmth and gentle quirkiness that mirrors the spirit of Northern Exposure.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode of Northern Disclosure is a must-listen for fans or newcomers wanting to understand how Northern Exposure combined humor, humanity, and social progressiveness well ahead of its time. From stories of iconic music moments and pioneering representation to the frank joy and pain of acting, Rob, Janine, and Don offer a heartwarming and insightful peek behind Cicely’s snowy curtain. The closing dance still says it best: at last, everyone belongs on the floor.

Transcript

[Janine Turner]

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[Don McManus]

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[Rob]

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[Don McManus]

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[Rob]

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[Don McManus]

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[Rob]

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[Don McManus]

Welcome back to college football kickoff week presented by Modelo Labor Day weekend on ESPN and abc. Also available to stream on the all.

[Rob]

New ESPN Apple foreign. Well, howdy, Northern disclosure audience, thanks for coming back. We're glad to have you here with my lovely co host, Jeanine Turner in, in blonde mode, looking very young and vivacious. I like the whole thing. I like the, the kind of, the matching the sweater and the red lips. You got a good thing going. Janine, how you doing?

[Janine Turner]

Thank you. Thought I'd keep it interesting.

[Rob]

Well, you do that every time and, well, you look great. You look refreshed. You know, Janine and I were just in Knoxville, Tennessee at something called Fanboy, which is like a Comic Con convention. And we had such a great time, you know, meeting so many fans that it was, I can't get over, I'm still high on it, like, and I can't even really describe the feeling of just hearing people's stor, not just about the show, but about their lives. And then looking over and seeing Jeanine, you know, you were connecting with these fans and, you know, people that had lives were so affected by the show. Did you have the same reaction, Jeanine?

[Janine Turner]

I did. It was just a lovely experience to connect with everybody just on a person, humanity to humanity, you know, heart to heart sort of way. I mean, we talked about the show, but we talked about their lives. We talked about everything. But it was, people had flown in from Maryland and New York and we were in Tennessee, Alabama, Chicago, and that's what was surprising to me. And they would come in and say, we came just to see y', all, you know, just to see the two of you and, and, and to hear how the show affected them, their lives in such a, in such a Poignant way.

[Rob]

It was really.

[Janine Turner]

I did. I loved every minute of it. It was exhausting, but it was fun. It was really fun. I enjoyed it.

[Rob]

And we'll. We'll probably do some more and we'll hopefully get the word out a little better. I know we. A lot of people didn't know about it, but we'll try to do that next time. And this is airing a number of weeks later, so I'm not sure how that's going to time in terms.

[Janine Turner]

I'm going to be in Alaska in February, so there you go.

[Rob]

Cool. That seems appropriate.

[Janine Turner]

I know. I'm going to stop by Seattle. Maybe I can get Rob to come with me. And I want to film a show in the Chris's.

[Rob]

You know, that could be fun.

[Janine Turner]

Office.

[Rob]

That'd be fun as hell, you know. So I just want to say to everyone who, if you're listening to this podcast, you know, you can subscribe, and if you want to watch it, you can go to the YouTube channel, the Northern Disclosure YouTube channel. And you can watch us. So you can. Then you can see how cute Janine looks.

[Janine Turner]

My hair changes every week.

[Rob]

Yeah, but that's fun. We're surprised.

[Janine Turner]

Rob looks.

[Rob]

Thank you. So you have the choice.

[Janine Turner]

He just looks good, naturally. You know, it's so different for men than women.

[Rob]

I guess so.

[Janine Turner]

But you look great, Rob. And so.

[Rob]

But either way. Thank you. Hit that subscribe button. And, you know, today we have a. We have a really lovely show. I know Janine's excited about it, and I just watched it this morning again. It's called Slow Dance, and it was written by Andy and Diane Schneider and Froloff, who y' all remember from a couple episodes ago. We had them on the podcast. They were. They wrote something like 25 shows or something like that. They were eps. And so it's got some really great themes and stories going on. And as our guest today, we have Don McManus, who's a great actor, and he had a. You know, we had an interesting storyline. We had them in about three episodes. And it was this kind of gay love story that was just fit naturally into the landscape of Sicily and was handled with such kind of beauty and grace. So that's the kind of the B storyline. The A storyline revolves around Ms. Turner here, and I'll let her speak to that. Cause I know she's got a lot of ideas and thoughts about it. But it's really a lot of charm and it's poignant. And your performance was, as always, you know, grows on me. I have to say, you know, because Jeanine and I talk a lot about how we weren't objective back then, but now, watching her with a little distance, I just loved your, you know, how confused you were by what they call as a potential jinx that she has with these many, many boyfriends who have ended up dead. But you have any thoughts, Jeanine? I'm sure you do.

[Janine Turner]

Well, I do. And, you know, right back at you, Rob. I'm always amazed at your performances. And the last, especially the arc that you had in the show from at the beginning of the show, like, she would do what she would do. She wouldn't pass you in the exam. Well, if she'll do that when the clothes are off, what would she do if the clothes weren't off? So to speak. And the arc you had at the end with that fabulous speech in Hollings Barr, but you were doing it for humanity or whatever your line was. I didn't write lines down today, but to dance with Maggie o'. Connell. And I thought that the entire show, once again, all three storylines were simply heartfelt and accepting. It was about acceptance. Again, that sort of benevolent universe, non judge. It was about acceptance. It's the way people continued to accept Maggie even though all of her boyfriends died. And that the guilt she must have felt for failing him in the exam and trying to do what's right. But it was an important storyline because I think that it. Well, it was fun for me because, like, next week's gonna be Jules a Joel for your, which was your show. You know, it was a really big show for you, and you were. You got to play two different people. How cool is that? Right? And we're gonna be talking about that.

[Rob]

It was cool. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. And you were terrific in that as well. And I just think it was. It was. Here's some. Some behind the scenes things that I remember. First of all, I was working with Universal, we all sort of know this story for three years, to try to get them to stream it. And one of the things that they were most concerned about was the music, that they couldn't afford the music. And if they lost the music, they, you know, or they couldn't do the show. And I had to convince them that the show, the music's important, but there were a lot of other elements that are worth keeping for future generations. And let's see what we can do. Well, this Etta James song at the end, at last, when you and I dance at. At the end, when you. When you have this whole speech about you're not afraid to touch me. And Maggie's smoking all these cigarettes and. And how caring you were as an actor. But Fleischman was toward Maggie at the end, but I kept telling him all along, and as my example, that I loved that Etta James song At Last. At Last, you know, such. When I get married someday, that's going to be my theme song. At Last. But it's. If you haven't heard the song, it's a beautiful song. And they kept telling me that they couldn't afford it, that they didn't think they would be able to keep that song.

[Rob]

Right. They can't afford it. They can't afford it. Hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of profits later.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, right. Well, they weren't going to keep it. And I had to kind of go, well, whatever, you know, as long as you get some of the other great songs. And so this was the first time I'd watched the show this morning, and I saw that they actually kept it. They got it, so kudos to them.

[Rob]

They kept most of the music. Just so you know, there's only. They didn't take out that much in the streaming.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. But I really didn't think they would have the Etta James song, so I'm really happy about that. And I do have a couple of funny stories, which I'll. I'll just say before we get dawn on. You know, there was this whole theme that we were supposed to be funny, and yet the show was dramatic and with quirkiness surrounding it, but it wasn't slapstick comedy, three camera, laugh track type of comedy. Well, but this was a very serious thing for Maggie. I mean, her. Another boyfriend died, everyone was going to curse her and.

[Rob]

Why don't you bring us up to speed on that storyline?

[Janine Turner]

You want to tell the storyline. You're good at that, Rob, you go ahead.

[Rob]

Okay, I'll do it. So. Yeah, well, Maggie has lost. Y' all who've watched the show will know this, but if you're just kind of new to it, you know, she's had a string of about five or six boyfriends that have all ended up dead in very interesting and, you know, somewhat sometimes funny ways. And so in this episode, her current boyfriend, Rick, played by the. The charming Grant Goodeve, who I remember as a kid from 8 is enough.

[Don McManus]

He.

[Rob]

He dies. And so starts to become kind of in. Everyone's conscious that maybe that she has a. There's a jinx on her. And so she has to wrestle with what that means. If it's True. And what it means. And aside from just mourning the loss.

[Janine Turner]

Of yet another boyfriend and how the friend of Rick's comes and brings her cookies, and then he's hitting on her and he wants to be next. He's like, I'm not afraid of you. I don't care if I die. He's like, wait, wait, you came to. So what was interesting is the situations were funny. And then at the end, when the. Toward the end of the show when the woman comes in Ruthanne's store and says, hey, why don't you come over and you can kind of get to know my husband and maybe y' all can have a little thing. And she's like, wait, you want me to kill your husband? I mean, those. Those situations were. Were very funny. But what happened with the executive producers? Because in the funeral, of course, they couldn't get the. And of course, it's hilarious the way John Corbett, who's Chris in the Morning, talks about all of her boyfriends that had died in the past. One choked on what? Sushi. The other one died taking a nap on a glacier. Some I didn't even remember. I mean, it was just really hilarious, actually.

[Rob]

Well, it's the first time they named them. They all had names.

[Janine Turner]

They actually named them. They named. What happened to. To everybody. And she's having.

[Rob]

No, their names. Their actual names, I'm saying.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, right.

[Rob]

We heard. We learned their names. Yeah, that's right.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, I guess we did. And so they're trying to bring. The satellite fused with. With Rick's body. They can't infuse it to put him in a coffin, so they had to bring this coffin in with. It looks like a satellite. And I remember how Woody and everybody had to really work to get this coffin to look like a satellite had hit it.

[Rob]

So Rick died. Rick died by. He went. He was kind of angry at Maggie for something. I guess we'll talk to. Once we get Don on. Cause that's more internal in the show. But Rick died by a satellite falling out of the sky and killing him. So.

[Janine Turner]

Out of nowhere. Yeah. Which, you know, it's really funny, Rob, when you're trying to expl. That could happen.

[Rob]

I mean, you know what I mean?

[Janine Turner]

These things could just happen. But the point I'm trying to make is I really always tried to bring that sort of Jessica Lange current of emotion underneath what I was doing. That was my whole goal as an actress. You know how Jessica Lange always looks like she's about to. You know, and here her boyfriend had died. So I wanted to have that emotional layer of tears, which you did manage to see every now and then. But in that scene, yeah, when you.

[Rob]

Open the door on Gary, when he's there, you can tell you've been. You were hurting.

[Janine Turner]

It was just a lot of work, actually, for me, because I'm not one of those easy, instantaneous criers, you know, I have to do all these things.

[Rob]

But in this, it does take a lot of work. People don't realize that you have to kind of. If you have a day where you're doing these heavy, dramatic scenes where you're, like, crying or when Janine is mourning someone, or unless it comes easy, which it doesn't for me either, you have to put yourself in a state early in the morning. It's the antithesis of what is natural. Because when you're upset, you try to get un. Upset, but here you have to kind of get upset and keep it percolating all day long, you know?

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, right. For when they say action, and you don't really know when that's gonna be, and you get to do it in three or four different camera angles, and you have to match that same sort of emotion. And meanwhile, the whole cast is talking and chatting and the crew's banging around, and you have to find. You have to keep it. And it's really, really a craft, I think. Anywho, So I was in that scene, and I was bringing a lot of emotion to it, which I think we needed, because you needed to have that juxtaposition of how everybody else thought it was funny. But Maggie didn't think it was funny. I mean, she was hurting. But the producers afterwards were upset with me because I had been emotional, you know, had this kind of crying sort of thing in the scene, and they wanted to be funny. And I kept saying, but it. It's only funny if you have, you know, different characters playing against each other. So they caught. They were upset with me that I had this emotion at the funeral. And I'm like, oh, for gosh sakes. You know what I mean? It's just like, can't I ever have any emotion? They always want it to be a comedy. A comedy comedy. They didn't seem to understand that you have to have that juxtaposition position. But they made me loop it, Rob. They made me loop every line I had in that funeral scene to change my performance. And they cut off my face whenever I was talking. So whenever I was talking, they cut off my face so you couldn't see my face. So we wouldn't have to worry about lips. They gave me new lines and made me change. They wanted to try to change my whole performance.

[Rob]

I'm sure I knew it at the time. I don't remember that. But it's interesting because it works.

[Janine Turner]

It may have worked, but you and I both know it could have been richer. They could have been on my face where you saw a little bit of emotion happening. I didn't freak out. I didn't have like, I wasn't sobbing or anything. I just had all those layers. So it worked. But you know, you and I look at these things. We know how it could have been, but it was still very hard as an actor.

[Rob]

I didn't notice you missing in that. All I'm saying is. But I get your point. I get your point.

[Janine Turner]

Anywho, it was quite something. Rob and I have talked about the looping before, that they make us go in and change our performance. But anywho, it did work in the end. But those are some of my behind the scenes stories because I know people always want to hear.

[Rob]

I want to hear more when we. Let's bring Don in. So Don is. Don is a really terrific actor with a long, long career. He is. He went to Yale. He's been on every show in the world. The Equalizer, Nip Tuck, Parks and Rec, Boston Legal, Grey's Anatomy, Ally McDeal, Star Trek, Malcolm the Middle, Forever, Dr. Quinn. I mean, the Rookie. He's just all over the place as well as movies and theater. He's been a lot of movies. I'm just looking at him now, you know, just, just endless movies. Lovelace and. And the Maze Runner and Park City and Vice and under the, you know, it's just, just a ton of work and. And when we had him on the show, we had such a good time with him. So he's his. His partner in the show was played by Doug Ballard, who we couldn't find, but we hope to. To get him for a subsequent show so that the two. Anyway, please welcome the great Don McManus.

[Don McManus]

Hey, guys.

[Janine Turner]

Welcome, Don.

[Don McManus]

Thank you.

[Rob]

How are you, Don?

[Don McManus]

I'm doing great. I'm doing great. It's. I'm sorry you couldn't find Doug. I've. I was in. I've been in touch with him a couple of times since the show, but I. We've fallen out of touch and I don't know where he is, but he's. I had such a great time working with Doug.

[Janine Turner]

We'll get him. We'll get him on.

[Rob]

Yeah, we will. Get him. So tell us the. So this was controversial. I mean, this was one of the first kind of gay love stories on television. It was the only. The second gay marriage in the history of network television. And it was, you know, it was daring.

[Janine Turner]

What was the.

[Don McManus]

It was the first gay marriage.

[Rob]

Yeah, Right. On the Rock. Oh, no, I think on the Rock. Charles Dutton Show. I think they had.

[Don McManus]

Oh, really?

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Don McManus]

Okay.

[Rob]

But anyway, first or second, it was. It was up there. And what's amazing to me is that that this issue of gay marriage is still in the crosshairs, you know, that it's still controversial. But did you. Do you remember how you got cast or what that process was like?

[Don McManus]

Sure, yeah, I do. I was not the first choice for the role.

[Rob]

Oh, interesting.

[Don McManus]

Yeah, a buddy of mine, and I'm not going to say his name because that's his story to tell, but he got really. He got this offer and a regular on a pilot at the same time, and obviously, he took the regular on the pilot. Pilot didn't go anywhere. And Northern had some legs. And so it. You know, it's a strange little branching point, but, yeah, I mean, it was just a regular audition, and people did ask me, are you sure you want to play a gay character on tv? And I was like, well, yeah. What do you. What do you mean? Of course.

[Rob]

Right. Well, your agents, like, your agents.

[Don McManus]

Well, yeah, And. And, you know. And friends, right, who were like, you know, this is gonna. This will mark you as gay for that. And I just.

[Janine Turner]

You know, people forget that there's this thing called acting. You know what I mean? It's like. But. But you do get stereotyped. I remember when I was on General Hospital with Demi Moore. She and I were sisters, and I had all this long blonde hair because I was supposed to look like Spencer, and I had to walk around for a year. I was hypnotized and said, I don't know. I don't know. You know, I just don't know. By the way, a lot of General Hospital fans came to Knoxville to see me, and someone sent me a button that said, I don't know. I don't know. I just don't know. But whenever I see a fan that goes all the way back to Northern Exposure, where it was 1981, it's. It's pretty amazing.

[Rob]

Back to General Hospital, I mean.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, yeah, right. General Hospital, yes. But. But what a point I'm trying to make is that it took me a while to get beyond that, where. Where people thought I was just head sort of you know, blonde, TNA kind of character. And so in a way, it does. In a way it doesn't. I mean, I got over it eventually, but so there is, There is a. Sometimes people do stereotype you into roles.

[Rob]

Did it affect you, Don, do you think? In any way?

[Don McManus]

In a very positive way. I, I. First of all, Doug and I, I can't remember the. Oh, the Advocate was the gay magazine out of San Francisco, and they, they gave us a lot of attention, and then we won act. The. The gay activist organization ACT up voted us, like, the most gay positive representation on television, which I thought was lovely. When I was, when we were doing the show, we lived in West Hollywood, and a number of times, I can't tell you how many times guys walked up to me on the street and said, thank you for doing the show. It helped me come out. Yeah, it really. It really was beautiful. There's. I mean, we sort of. I don't know about, about you guys, but, you know, I have in the past, you know, when people say, what. What do you do? I was like, I'm just an actor. It's, you know, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not moving the needle. But in this case, it did. It actually had a real life implication, and that's extremely gratifying.

[Rob]

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[Don McManus]

Race the sails. Race the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[Janine Turner]

Over.

[Don McManus]

Roger.

[Janine Turner]

Wait.

[Don McManus]

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[Rob]

Yeah, yeah, do. What do you remember from when you came up on the show? Anything about when you shot it? Like what? You know, I didn't say that David Carson was the director. If you remember, he was a British director. I think he only did one job. He did a good job, and I really liked him. I can't. I don't know why he didn't come back. I think he just was in so in such demand. But he was. He may have come back for one, but, but, but he was great. Do you remember anything from.

[Don McManus]

I don't. I don't remember the direction of, of that episode. I do remember that. First of all, it's interesting the way they broke it down that this is listed as season two, which as I recall it was, as we used to say, the back nine of season one. Right.

[Rob]

Well, this was an unusual situation. We shot eight shows off the bat and that was supposed to be done for a summer replacement. And then they picked us up, but they weren't quite sure yet, so they gave us another seven shows.

[Don McManus]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

I was eight.

[Rob]

Yeah, I know it was seven. And then, and then they, they started to pick us up for real, so.

[Don McManus]

Right, right.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

Well, you know, I think it's the fact that they had this non judgmental universe that Rob and I talk about in. On every episode.

[Don McManus]

Absolutely.

[Janine Turner]

And you know, usually we read the storyline of. Of all three episode storylines. You want to read that, Rob? I mean, because we usually.

[Rob]

You're right, I didn't do that yet. I'm going to read the. We like to talk about the. The are. The audience likes to hear the plot summary. So I'm just going to read it to you. So Joel is startled to hear that Maggie reported her boyfriend Rick Pederson's colorblindness to the faa. That's likely to cost him his professional pilot's license. Any. Anyhow, satellite debris actually CR a fatal fluke, leaving him and the satellite physically inseparable. Maurice finds and hosts buyers Ron Ron and. And Rick Eric for a Russian fur trapper's historic Arctic palace to convert into a hotel. Then regrets it, but finds their offer hard to resist. Chris offers a positive perspective. Shelley is strangely jealous of Holling's intimate old friend Anita, and even of the gray haired shopkeeper.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. So rich. The show was so rich. And that whole scene of the whole storyline with Maurice, who never. Barry Corbin, who was also at the convention with us. The way he could blend that. I think it's underestimated the way he could blend the macho, the machismo with the sensitivity. And my father was a West Point graduate and was one of the heroes of the Air Force. Twice the speed of sound. But he loved musicals. You know, he loved Tchaikovsky, he loved My Fair lady and he'd always. And the fact that then he questioned his own, you know, sense of whatever masculinity.

[Rob]

Masculinity or sexuality.

[Janine Turner]

Sexuality Cooking and whatnot. And the way that the. And John Corbett's face in that scene when he brings him all the records and his Cuisinart and his, you know, fondue pot or whatever it might be, John Corbett handled that so well.

[Rob]

I agree.

[Janine Turner]

You know, Rob, it's just like the way he knew how to. What was going on. He goes, well, you know, if you question your sexuality and have a problem with it, most people think that you're actually, you know, you're questioning your own sex. He just handled it incredibly beautifully. I thought John Corbett as an actor as well, but so did. So did Barry. Barry handle. And the way at the end, the way he could come and he doesn't want y' all in the town, he's like, I don't want this to be Fire island, you know, to sort of thing. And. And then. And the way that the two of you as characters, you don't get insulted. You.

[Rob]

You have such dignity.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. The way you played it, you didn't. It's like y' all knew what it was all about, but this is a tribute to the writing. This tribute to the writing. You knew what it was all about, but you didn't play that hand. And instead you said, oh, well, we'll offer you more money. Because you know how people work. It's like y' all understood Maurice more than Maurice understood y'. All. And y' all played Maurice with, we'll you more money. And he's like 55,000. I mean, I thought that was a brilliant piece of writing.

[Don McManus]

It was a good piece of writing.

[Rob]

It's interesting how Maurice's morality kind of gets flexible when. When the dollars go up, which shows humanity.

[Janine Turner]

It's. It's once again showing the vulnerability of humanity.

[Rob]

So, Janine, you know, I was thinking when I was watching the show, I forgot this. The scene where. Where the funeral for Rick in the church is. So, you know. Do you guys remember the Mary Tyler Moore show?

[Don McManus]

Yes, Chuckles the Clown.

[Rob]

Exactly. There's a famous episode where Chuckles the Clown, who works at the station is. Is in a parade, a local parade, dressed as a peanut, and he actually gets killed by an elephant. And at the funeral and. And all. And all week long, everyone in the office is kind of laughing about it. And Mary Tyler Moore is like, that's just. Just. You guys are terrible. How dare you? This is a man's life. And then they get to the funeral and everyone is finally getting serious, and Mary can't stop laughing.

[Don McManus]

Right.

[Rob]

You know, and it just made me think of when when they bring.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, the opposite, though. Everybody else was laughing, right?

[Don McManus]

Yes.

[Janine Turner]

Everybody else thought it was hilarious in, in, in the town. So you had to have Maggie combat that, you know?

[Rob]

Well, I think it was that they, it was when we saw them coming through on the, I mean, the coffin and it was so well shot and everyone seemed like they were really like, I don't know what, I can't remember how we got there, but everyone.

[Janine Turner]

Barry Corbin looked like he was really, really laughing. You did too, Rob. You did.

[Rob]

I know. I, I. Someone. You know what? I'll bet you anything, I'm willing to bet money that I. We got Corbett to do something because he could always make people.

[Janine Turner]

Well, the way, the way he parted the flowers to look through the flowers and you have to. It would be fun to ask Corbett. I mean, was that a Corbett move or was that a David Carson move? I mean, parting the flowers to continue talking. I mean, that was really funny.

[Rob]

Yeah. Funny moment.

[Janine Turner]

Poor Maggie. Poor Maggie.

[Don McManus]

Poor Maggie.

[Janine Turner]

So, Maggie, what about self suffering?

[Rob]

Janine, what about the. But she. But in the way the show always works. It comes, there's, there's, there's something gained from, from these experiences. But talk about the dioramas. I find that fascinating.

[Janine Turner]

Well, she whipped hers up pretty quick for Rick, didn't she?

[Rob]

Well, explain, Explain what they are. Tell the audience what they.

[Janine Turner]

She, instead of. She doesn't really believe in photos or sort of morbid thing, you know, she does. She creates these dioramas or dioramas with clay of, of each circumstance. Like one, one, the one who died with sushi, that she does a little sushi table. And the other one that, that died on the glacier. She has a glacier. And so it was, it was pretty quick on the show. She had Rick with a satellite falling, and it was just her sort of homage, I guess it was, it was her way of respecting their memories. I mean, I guess the way we have grave sites, you know, we have tombstones or, or I have like a ceiling high full of beloved pets who live to be 15 that have been cremated that are in their little boxes. You know what I mean? It's like. And people are cremated, yet they have the urns in their house. So I guess it was the same sort of thing.

[Rob]

They're so detailed. But I'm, I was fascinated how quickly she got this one up. Wasn't dead like five minutes.

[Janine Turner]

She's an expert.

[Rob]

She's. So maybe she planned. Maybe she planned at that point, as soon as she meets them, she thinks like, okay, what's the diorama gonna be. It's.

[Don McManus]

It's a voodoo fetish is what it is.

[Rob]

Yeah, but it is touching. Like, I think it's at the end, you know. I mean, first of all, it's so funny that Fleischman, you know, makes it about him, you know, as soon as Rick tells him about the colorblindness, it's like, oh, what you gonna do to me? Like, it's like, what? Who do that? Like, you would even. But, but, but, Fleischman, you know, I. I find it always interesting how Maggie and Joel care about each other, but never at the same time until maybe way down the road, down seasons, but, like. But here, it's like, if you're caring about me, then I'm not caring about you. And if I'm caring about you, you don't want anything to do with me. But I think he's really, you know, he can feel how much in pain she is. Because what a horrible thing to think, you know, I mean, which is ridiculous, because I agree with what Fleischman says. It's just, you know, it's. It's beyond reason, you know, and, and, and, you know, it goes against the. Everything that has made us a civilization, you know, to think that. That someone could have a jinx, that people. That their boyfriends die. But I could see where someone would feel it, you know? And I, I, I, I, I. It's so sweet the way he kind of comes to her and, you know, tries to pull her out and ultimately does that. That. That scene at the end is really lovely. And as you said, the. The Etta James song at last is just a perfect little moment. And, and again, they constantly have these harbingers of things to come with Maggie and Joel, you know, these, this, this, like, sense of, like, oh, there's. He. I mean, there's. When they're. The way I'm holding you, you know, and the way we're kind of moving together, it's so, you know, it's so comfortable, right?

[Janine Turner]

And she was smoking all those cigarettes, and she smoked a lot.

[Don McManus]

That was hilarious. That ashtray was absolutely over the top. It was unbelievable.

[Janine Turner]

But you know what I liked about the dancing scene is it was this beautiful, poignant delivery of Rob's. I mean, it's like, look, come on. It was very sensitive. And Maggie goes for it, and they start to dance. But then you start to see everybody dance. You know, you see. You see that Shelley and Column had resolved their issues. I would love to talk about Shelley's performance and, and Columns Because Columns and. And Cynthia's. Because they were amazing. But then everybody comes on the dance floor, and then the two of you, Don. I mean, your two characters come on the dance floor and you dance together. I mean, how often had that happened on television? I.

[Don McManus]

That's. Yeah, that was. That was. I forgot that we. We were on that dance floor. I do remember how they had trouble setting up that shot because it was a sort of spinning shot of the whole room. And it took some logistics to make that happen. And it took a while to set that up. But, yeah, I forgot that we were dancing on camera that early.

[Rob]

Yeah. By the way, Jim Leibovitz, I noticed who was our operator was the dp, credited DP of this episode.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, interesting.

[Rob]

And I think, if I. If I. If I'm thinking correctly, Heyman, our normal dp, was. Was possibly getting married or was out a couple episodes.

[Janine Turner]

He was prepping for Jewels.

[Rob]

Oh, he was prepping. You're right. That's what it was. He was prepping Jules at Joel, which was his directorial debut.

[Janine Turner]

So he's probably.

[Rob]

So they moved up and Jim did a good job. I remember. I remember thinking, well, I had a.

[Janine Turner]

Little more light on my face, which I'll talk about with Jim when he gets on the. On the show. But, yeah, I didn't. I meant, no wonder you could see my face.

[Rob]

So, yeah, I remember. You know, it's. When I was watching the show today, I. I forgot that you guys come in the dance floor, too. And I was thinking, like, will they? Won't they? Will they? Won't they? Will they. Will they go there? And I was so happy when they came out because it just seems so. That epitomized northern exposure that all these people.

[Don McManus]

That was. That was the best. That was the best part, is that. Is that it went without comment.

[Rob]

It went without comment. That's a great way to put it.

[Don McManus]

And, yeah, and I. But I remember that I had friends who. Who thought it was such a big deal that it was a gay couple. And. And it. They found humor where. I don't think humor was intended, because once you started looking at someone through the lens of this is a gay character, then everything feeds into that. There was a scene in another episode where we're at the bar and we're drinking and talking, and they were like. It was so funny when you ordered the white wine. And I was like, what? Why? Because it was so gay. I was like, what? Ridiculous. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

I was thinking about an angle with this show as I was setting up my little Studio here, you know, would they today, with a situation of someone being gay, Right. Dare to have a character who had a bad feeling about it? I. I think that everyone wants to be so politically correct, right, that they don't have that. That. That kind of antagonistic.

[Rob]

What do you mean? Wait, what. Explain what you mean. What do you mean, I had a bad feeling?

[Janine Turner]

Well, okay, like, if there's a gay character day, everybody wants to be so politically correct that it's just homogenized and there's never an antagonist to question it, to say, I don't want a bunch of. I don't want Fire island here. You know, I don't want my city to be. And that's the way you're right.

[Rob]

They probably. They probably shy away from that.

[Don McManus]

Well, it wouldn't be normalized.

[Rob]

It would.

[Don McManus]

It would either be. It would either be comedically hilarious, ridiculous, or it would be a villainous thing to do.

[Janine Turner]

Right? And. And yet they, they. And like Rob, you know how. How he would say, I wanted a good Jew, you know, to be a doctor. And just these things that came out of. Of anybody's mouth. It was Maurice's mouth, and he did it so well. I mean, think about it. He said such harsh things, but you still loved him. But I thought, I don't know today if they would have a character just honestly say, I don't want to start, you know, a whole gay calling. I don't. I don't. I don't want this here. And they were brave enough to do that, too.

[Don McManus]

Well, I mean, see, I think that was. That was. That was the normalized point of view back then, I think.

[Janine Turner]

I mean, I think anybody brave enough to say it on television. Right? You think?

[Don McManus]

Yeah, I. I think that that name calling gay people and, And. And not wanting to be associated with gay people was, Was, I think, the normal point of view at that time.

[Janine Turner]

But did they say it on television, though? Were they brave enough to. Actually.

[Rob]

They didn't have a lot of storylines, but I get your point, Janine. I see what you're saying. I think, you know, you're just saying that they wouldn't. They wouldn't. They wouldn't. They'd be scared of alienating some quarter, you know, some. Some demographic, and so they wouldn't want to cast dispersion, so they'd shy away from that. Not to say that there aren't, fortunately now, you know, endless, you know, gay and all kinds of storylines, you know, that are regular parts of the TV and the movie and cultural landscape. But I Think. I think you're right. On a show like this, they would probably shy away from it for sure. But I want to point out, by the way. So you must be a singer, because when you, you sing that, the Rogers and Hammerstein song in Maurice's house, I heard that voice, and I was like, wait a minute, there's a singer there.

[Don McManus]

Oh, no, no, no. I am no kind of singer at all.

[Rob]

You sounded pretty good, my friend. You were in, you were on pitch, and you sounded like you had a voice.

[Don McManus]

It was, it was a sweet scene, though. I, I, I, I had friends who were gay friends at the time. It's like, so, so you're the bottom in this relationship. And I was, I was like, I was like, oh. And I watched the episode, and I was like, oh, yeah, I kind of am. Yeah, it's like sort of I'm the gayer of the, of the two, and, and I, I watched it. I was like, oh, that's kind of sweet. I, I'd forgotten that it was like, sort of bu.

[Rob]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

Well, they can finish each other's sentences. I mean, you're always getting the times wrong. And, and I think Doug's character was always saying. No, it was, it was 95. It was 85, or whatever it was.

[Don McManus]

Yes. Oh, yes, I remember it well.

[Janine Turner]

There you go. There's a show tune.

[Rob]

What about the Holling? The Holling story? That's.

[Don McManus]

Oh, I just, I loved Cynthia in that episode so much. It was, it was, it was just her, her vulnerability was just charming.

[Rob]

Yeah, she was great at the table. When she's going, when she's trying to, trying to keep up, and she just starts spewing out all this stuff from her past.

[Don McManus]

Like, it was, well, just, just like stuff she read from the, you know, like a history book when she's cooking the dinner.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

You could see that she'd actually. And I thought she was hilarious, you know, to think about Cynthia. Rob and I, you know, had been New York actors, and we, we'd been at it for 12 years, and we'd had kind of a bevy of work underneath us. Cynthia, she just graduated from college. This was her first pilot season. And to think about how she held her own on this show. I think looking back 35 years later, we're like, wow, look at Cynthia's work. And that, that moment when she's laughing, when she's sitting A great shot, by the way, because hauling and, and the.

[Don McManus]

They're in a 50 50. And. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

Or like. Yeah. And then she was right in the middle. And she does that kind of guffawing, that laughing, like, oh, yeah, I remember in this hockey game. And it was brilliant. Really. Prime delivery is fast. How fast are we talking? We're talking puzzle toys and lick pad. Delivered so fast you can get this puppy under control fast. We're talking chew toys at your door without really waiting. Fast pads, cooling mat, peg, hammer. Fast and fast. And there's training T R E A T S faster than you can say sit fast. And now we can all relax and order these matching hoodies to get cozy and cute. Fast, fast. Free delivery. It's on prime. Make your next move with American Express Business Platinum. Enjoy complimentary access to the American Express Global Lounge collection and with a welcome offer of 150,000 points, after you spend 20. $20,000 on purchases on the card within your first three months of membership, your business can soar to new heights. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] Business Platinum AmEx Business Platinum. Built for business by American Express.

[Rob]

It's actually reminiscent. It's. It's reminiscent of Carnal Knowledge. That's a scene. That's a shot. They come. There's a moment, a great. It's a great scene with Candy Bergen, Mike Nichols, and Jack and Art Garfunkel on each side that you don't even see them. But it's just focus on Candy and. And she's laughing hysterically as they're telling their stories off screen.

[Don McManus]

What I really liked about that pairing is that John, by the time we were working, John Cullum had been a Broadway star for decades. You know, I mean, he was beautiful.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Don McManus]

He was the. The most experienced of all of us. And he was paired with Cynthia, who was fresh off the boat.

[Rob]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Don McManus]

That was. I thought that was just delightful. I also. I loved it. When we were shooting, either Cynthia or John were always the first on set.

[Rob]

They were like, yeah, for sure.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. And.

[Don McManus]

And I just. I love that, like, you're eager to work.

[Janine Turner]

Well, they also. They also called them first because they were like number 6, 7, and 8. And they call just for people behind the scenes a little. Cool. If you're number one or two in the call sheet in the makeup trailer, they'll call. They'll call 1 and 2 last and let them sleep a little bit. And they'll call in, you know, 5, 5, 6, and 7. So that may have been while they were always there. Not to diminish, though, Cynthia has talked about the fact that she would show up on days when she Wasn't working as would I, by the way, just to absorb the work. And she was very eager.

[Rob]

What's funny? The. The. It's funny. There's a line that. That Holling says to her at the end. Toward the end of the show, that it could be taken the wrong way.

[Janine Turner]

I know, exactly.

[Don McManus]

I love you for your body. Yes. That's the big twist. Yes. I love that. That was. That was my. When I read the script, that was my favorite moment in it because.

[Rob]

And he does it. It's so tight. Like, it doesn't feel, like. No, it's weird. It feels. Feels tender because the love between them and I. I love your point, because I've never thought about it like that, Don. That there. That, you know, Cullum was the super experienced and she was the least experienced, you know, and that. That. That synergy, you know, that happened between them, that Frison, you know, could have been as a result of that. And he. He just adored her in life and on screen and vice versa.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, he's such a good man. I'm still trying to get him on the show. I mean, he. He's such a good person. John Column. I mean, what you see there is really. And I think he brought that to his character. He was just always so good. And that's why he could say things. All of our characters were like that. The things I said to Fleischman on paper, you go, oh, my God. But it sort of worked with the way we delivered it in Fleischman to me. And. And even what Maurice says, but even what Holling says, you go, whoa. But it worked. It was so sweet. But she was excellent. And I think that's the great thing about the show is we have these moments where you. We get to be, you know, Native American, Eskimos in a fantasy, you know, or Amelia Earhart or Russian or whatever it might be. And there she was being able then to get dressed up as an older person in the 50s.

[Rob]

And she looked great. I love how she looks.

[Janine Turner]

She did.

[Don McManus]

And I love the scene with her and Peg, you know, it was where she's jealous of love. Peg's experience.

[Janine Turner]

She wants her gray hair.

[Rob]

She wants her gray hair. But you know what? You know, something else that jumped out at me, and this has jumped out at me a number of times. But you know how the more things change, the more they stay the same. So here we are in 19, I guess, 90, 91, something like that. And Chris is talking about. In his monologue, you know, he's talking about AI. He's talking about robotics, about how, like, Rick is the first machine man, you know, kind homo, no homo, no Novus, the new man, you know, and the gay marriage, the storyline, like all of these things that we were talking about then, we're talking about now.

[Don McManus]

Yes, absolutely true.

[Rob]

We're talking about AI, we're talking about machines, we're talking about, you know, the potential of gay marriage being. Being taken away. You know, that's just. That's just wild to me. And in a weird way, it makes me hopeful because sometimes, as. As we all know, these are. These are stressful times. And so it makes me think, okay, there's been. We've always had stressful times. We'll get through it. One way or another, we'll find a way through it.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, well, that's a. That's a tribute to the American people. And I will say our Constitution, things of that. That keeps. It keeps us, you know, away from tyranny, but because as you say, Rob, we've gone through World War I, World War II, the Civil War. There have to been so many elements. The Victorian ages. And I'm a single. What about in the 50s? If I'd been a single mom in the 50s, I would have been annihilated.

[Rob]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

So it's like the interesting changes that happen, and yet it all seems to repeat itself at the same time. But we.

[Don McManus]

Well, I've been fooled. You know, I. I thought for a good long time we were making real progress. You know.

[Janine Turner]

I still think we are. I think we're good.

[Rob]

I don't think it steps forward and steps back. I guess.

[Janine Turner]

I guess it'll be taken away. Gay marriage, I don't think that's going to be.

[Rob]

I hope you're.

[Don McManus]

Yeah, I hope you're right, but we've.

[Janine Turner]

Made too much progress for that to happen.

[Don McManus]

I hope so. I hope you're right.

[Rob]

So, you know, and I. I want. I just want to go back to the. The woman in you. Because when you talked about Ruth Ann Store, the woman that comes up to you, Janine, and wants you to want you to have an affair with her husband.

[Don McManus]

Oh, it was hilarious.

[Rob]

She hates him so much, and she wants. She's hoping that if you spend time with him, he'll die. It was.

[Janine Turner]

It was.

[Don McManus]

It was one of the things that I, I didn't remember from the script, and when I watched it, I was like, oh, that's hilarious. Here, would you. Would you please just rub up against my husband so he'll die?

[Janine Turner]

So horrible. Poor Maggie. And the, The. The Other guy wanting to come. I'm not scared of. You have an immediate affair with her. And he goes, I was his best friend. I think I'm first in line.

[Don McManus]

Yes, exactly.

[Janine Turner]

And it was interesting because I'm a single mom. I. I just pray to God. It's like, do I get to get married at some point? I'm 62. I would like to be married before I die. I'm a single mom. And. And she.

[Don McManus]

And I hope there's some distance between those two events.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. Yeah, I know. What do you mean?

[Don McManus]

What do you mean, what I mean? I hope it. I hope you don't.

[Janine Turner]

It's not die right after I get married.

[Don McManus]

Same thing.

[Janine Turner]

I hope I get married and get. Let me rephrase that. I hope I get married and have about 30 years in a marriage.

[Don McManus]

There you go. There you go.

[Janine Turner]

What you say is what you are. Oh, Oh. I was going to say, I think Maggie was lonely. I think she was lonely. And. And I've been. My daughter's in college and I'm raising. I'm taking care of my mom now. And I think as a single woman, there's a loneliness. And I think Maggie had. She was dealing with all that on her own.

[Don McManus]

Oh, I think that's built in. I think that's baked into Northern Exposure. Is that. Is that Maggie? Is that both of them are. Are loners and, and, and seeking connection, you know, and so afraid of it.

[Janine Turner]

At the same time?

[Don McManus]

Well, it's. I mean, that's the classic thing of, you know, do what's in Cheers. Does Diane get together with, you know, whoever that Ted Danson's character was? And it's a. It's a. It's a tricky thing because you don't. You want them to get together, but you can't get them together because you have to keep the audience wanting them to get together.

[Janine Turner]

Right. And that's why when we finally got together, Maggie had to forget it. But that's ahead of ourselves.

[Rob]

Do you want to know some trivia? So here's a little thing. So we. We constantly, in the first season or two, had allusions to Twin Peaks.

[Don McManus]

Yes, yes.

[Rob]

And there's a theory that the. When just before Rick dies, there's an owl. He sees an owl, and the owl has this portentous look on his face, and then. And then you hear the sound of the satellite. Well, the owl is. People think maybe a reference to a character on Twin Peaks. Demon. Demon. Bob. I think it was. And when he would manifest himself as an owl. So there's a little trivia for you.

[Don McManus]

Wow. I did. I. I did not put that together, but I do know that we. The shows were often compared.

[Rob]

Yeah, definitely compared to. And we literally did like homages, like outright homages where we'd have characters kind of playing characters from the show and I would say things like, you know, we need a cup of coffee and a cherry pie and you know, how.

[Janine Turner]

Many seasons was Twin Peaks? I don't remember. Was it a couple?

[Rob]

Two seasons? Two seasons. And then they did.

[Janine Turner]

It didn't last, but we did. You know, I guess the difference was that sort of kind of wholesomeness that we still had at our show that we was. Everybody could.

[Rob]

I think in a weird way their, their show might have been better on certain levels. I mean, when tooken artistically but, but it's an interesting point you make. We're the ones who stuck around.

[Don McManus]

Yeah, well, I think they, they took big swings there. They. They went into surrealism and, and, and, and, and were non linear in ways that. That Northern just wasn't.

[Rob]

It was less accessible North.

[Don McManus]

Absolutely.

[Rob]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Don McManus]

And, and in its, in its bones. Welcoming, right?

[Rob]

Absolutely.

[Janine Turner]

What Northern Exposure was welcoming, you mean?

[Don McManus]

Yes, Yeah, I mean it was, it was an inclusive community.

[Rob]

Absolutely.

[Don McManus]

And, and made everyone by the by watching us accept each other. The. I think the audience felt, you know, got a little feel good off of that. It's like, you know, that I would be accepted there, there today.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, people feel that way today. Yeah. Yeah.

[Don McManus]

I mean, yeah. If you see a community where you think I would be, if I was there, they would accept me.

[Janine Turner]

That's.

[Don McManus]

That feels good.

[Rob]

You know, I think that's the heart. I think you're, you know, Janine and I talk about it a lot, but I think you're hitting at the heart of it. I think that's what. And that's why it feels, you know, it's on it streams now on Amazon and, and people are discovering it, you know, young generations.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, I had a lot of young people at the fanboy. I think you did too.

[Rob]

We did. We had a lot of young really that were watch show and that's great and it's fascinating and I think that that's a big feature of why, you know, it's. It's an inclusive place, you know.

[Don McManus]

Yeah. Which is why I thought the most poignant moment in the episode, I think is when Maurice is. Is off trying to offload all of his gay paraphernalia and I'm like, oh, poor Maurice. Your self hatred is so. I'm so sorry for you that you, like. Yeah, you have to go there. And, yes, you're right. Corbett's character handled it beautifully. But also, it's like, okay, when I say show tunes, what's the first thing you think of? Gay men.

[Janine Turner]

And the looks on his faces. And I. I just harken back to that last dance scene, and I'm so glad it's still Etta James, you know, at last.

[Don McManus]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

I mean, at last can mean a lot of things. You. You have a gay couple coming on the. You know, it's like Maggie and. Maggie and Fleischman oconnell are on this on the set. But if you watch everybody come on the dance floor, suddenly, you know, Rob and I are on the dance floor, and I think y' all were pretty quick. The two of you come on the dance floor.

[Don McManus]

Oh, yeah, that was. Which is. And I love that it was as. As we said before, without comment.

[Janine Turner]

Just like, without comment. Of course.

[Don McManus]

Yeah, of course they are.

[Janine Turner]

Exactly. Exactly. And then you had Shelly and Holling and. And Shelly come on the dance floor. But if you looked very carefully, Marilyn's. Marilyn was on the dance floor. Marilyn's mother was on the dance floor.

[Rob]

She was on the dance floor.

[Janine Turner]

Whoa.

[Don McManus]

Who?

[Rob]

Ed. Dad.

[Janine Turner]

Ed was on the dance floor. And then at the very, very end, you see, because you're. You're. I'm watching. It's like, who all's gonna come on the dance floor? Corbett, you know, Chris in the Morning goes over and puts his arm around Maurice, Right.

[Don McManus]

Oh, I didn't notice that. That's awesome.

[Rob]

Sweet, huh?

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. So, you know, everybody was sort of lonely, if you think about it. I mean, Chris in the Morning was a loner. Maurice was a loner. Fleischman's a loner. O' Connor was a loner. Darren's character.

[Don McManus]

That's interesting.

[Rob]

Yeah. That's an interesting point.

[Janine Turner]

We haven't dealt with well.

[Rob]

But I guess they get their, you know, community is where they get their companionship.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah.

[Don McManus]

And now that you mentioned it, I think. I think that Doug and I were the only ones that were sort of partnered up.

[Rob]

Absolutely.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Don McManus]

But every. You're right. Everyone else is sort of on their own.

[Rob]

Janine, do you have any other memories for shooting it?

[Janine Turner]

I, I. You know, it's funny because we can look at certain scenes. I'm like, I don't really have a memory of that. I really don't have a memory of that, but I have a definitive memory of the. Of the funeral scene, and I have a definitive Memory of the two of us dancing and smoking those cigarettes and. And the way you. How touching and poignant it was. And I. I do remember it was. Took a while. And for people behind the scene. The behind the scenes, we didn't just do that dance one wants, Right. It'd be. Cut.

[Don McManus]

Oh, dear God.

[Janine Turner]

Action. Let's do it again. Cut. Action. Let's do it again. And all those cigarettes may have just been from how many cigarettes I had to smoke for, like, how many scenes.

[Don McManus]

Yeah. That took how many Forever.

[Janine Turner]

The scene. Yeah, it took a long time. So it's funny.

[Rob]

Were you a smoker?

[Janine Turner]

I don't smoke. No.

[Rob]

You never smoked. So you smoked on. But you smoked on the. Only on the show.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, and I liked that. I remember later they tried to get politically correct with me, you know, like, well, Maggie wouldn't really drink and Maggie really wouldn't smoke. I'm like, oh, for crying out loud. Right. That's what makes her interesting. If. If we're all the same, if we all behave perfectly, then we don't have any sort. We don't have a story. We. We don't have humanity.

[Rob]

If you didn't. You didn't smoke, how did you. Wouldn't you get. Did you get sick or high from smoking those cigarettes?

[Janine Turner]

I don't remember getting high from it. I mean, I think I took a puff or two and tried to make it look as real as possible.

[Rob]

Yeah, it looks pretty totally real. That's why I'm curious.

[Janine Turner]

I. I don't remember that. I just remember there were a lot of takes, but it was. It was really fun, Rob, that. You know, to take your hand and. Rob, you know, it's like. I've always loved working with you, Rob. So there. There was like a natural chemistry and just how fun it was to go out there and have that moment to dance like that with the. And I guess they played Etta James for us. Do you remember the music they played often? They didn't play the actual.

[Rob]

Yeah, I doubt they played it for us.

[Janine Turner]

Do you remember, Don, was it. It wasn't at last, was it?

[Don McManus]

It. Was It. No, it was probably a click track. Yeah, it was a. It was a placeholder.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. Explain what a click track is.

[Rob]

Well, that's just so that they. The. It's used to. It's like a metronome.

[Don McManus]

It's like a metronome here.

[Rob]

And so you can. So that the movements are in time with whatever the tempo is of the song. So, you know, they may have known they were going For Etta James and whatever, that tempo was 64, 70 beats a minute, you know, and so they'd have a click track clicking for us. It was probably that.

[Janine Turner]

You know what I'm thinking about, too, as we philosophize today? Because I think, Don, you're an awesome guest. We've done a lot of philosophizing, but. But I. I think that the resolve at the end, when things. When people feel. Well, for lack of a better word, resolved, you know, they feel resolved at the end. It's. It's like Fleischman accepts her. Y' all are accepted. Everybody's accepted. And I think that's missing in life today. I think there's so much. Much, you know, blackouts and ghosting and, you know, judgmental and clicks and that there. There's. We don't have a feeling of just peace and love and resolve and all the things that, no matter what religion you are, sort of epitomize the goodness of humanity. We don't live in that universe anymore.

[Don McManus]

Well, that's. That's. The lovely thing about fiction, is that. Is that there is clown.

[Janine Turner]

Exactly. That's why they like it. But I think we live in a time now when there's so little of it. There's so little of it today.

[Rob]

I was just gonna say here's to closure. You know, I think that's a good note to. To close on. And it's been. Don, just so I. I hope you'll come back, and I hope we can get Doug.

[Don McManus]

Oh, I would love that. I would love to be talking with Doug.

[Janine Turner]

You were terrific in the show, Don. You did a great job.

[Don McManus]

Oh, thank you so much.

[Rob]

I agree. You were excellent. And. And I remember just enjoying working with you guys, and we always loved when you were around what'd. Shows. Is that correct or.

[Don McManus]

No, I. I think. I think we did, like, seven.

[Rob]

Seven. Wow. So you guys were regular recurring. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Well, we'll have you back maybe more than twice.

[Don McManus]

Okay, cool.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations on all your success post.

[Don McManus]

Thank you very much.

[Janine Turner]

And.

[Don McManus]

And back at you guys.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, well deserved. And it was. It was really a joy having you on the show as a person and an actor, and we're thrilled that you could be with us today. And this was really a cool show. We really sort of philosophized about. About the entirety of. I hate to keep saying the same word, but just the humanity of all of us.

[Rob]

Yeah, right.

[Don McManus]

That's a. That's a good word.

[Rob]

Yeah, you. That's a good word.

[Janine Turner]

To repeat Keep saying it and keep saying it. I hate to be repetitive. And Rob, Rob. I love the English language because I'm a poet and I love the English language so much. And Rob has an exceptional. I was telling him the other day. Is an exceptional command of the English language. And one of the things you always learn. Yeah, because today you said, you said a really great word. What was it, Rob? I was trying to. I'm like, oh, let's explain to everybody what that word mean means. I can't remember right now, but Rob has an exceptional command of the English language. And one of the things you learn is don't repeat yourself. But I'm repeating myself, so. Oh, well.

[Rob]

All right.

[Don McManus]

It's been lovely talking to you guys.

[Janine Turner]

Well, thank you. Really great to see you. Thank you. And Rob, always. Okay, so. Well, next week we're gonna. We're gonna be on our next Jewels A Joel, I believe is next. Thank you for watching. And we're still signing off from o' Connell and Fleischman. All right.

[Rob]

I think it should actually be Fleischman o'. Connell.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, right. In your dreams, Fleischman. Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media Foreign.

[Don McManus]

This episode is brought to you by FX's alien Earth, the official podcast. Each week, host Adam Rogers is joined by guests, including the show's creator, cast and crew. In this exclusive companion podcast, they will explore story elements, deep dive into character motivations, and offer an episode by episode, behind the scenes breakdown of each terrifying chapter in this new series. Search FX's alien Earth. Wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, I'm Paul.

[Janine Turner]

And I'm Erica.

[Rob]

And we're the hosts of that Aged well.

[Janine Turner]

We're kind of like your old friends you want to relive your childhood pop culture with, but with the benefit of a little wisdom and a lot of off color jokes.

[Rob]

Look, if there's one thing we've learned doing this podcast, it's that nostalgia is.

[Don McManus]

Way more fun if you aren't the.

[Rob]

Only one embarrassed by it.

[Janine Turner]

If you have a couple of friends to cringe along with it, get it goes from an exercise in humiliation to an exercise in giggling.

[Rob]

Let us be the friends to remind.

[Janine Turner]

You that, yes, we loved some garbage.

[Rob]

Growing up and we still love it now.

[Janine Turner]

If you think I will stop loving overboard just because it's about a kidnapped amnesiac woman gaslit into caring for a brood of children not her own, you've got another thing coming.

[Rob]

And if you think I won't love Sixteen Candles. Just bec. Nope.

[Janine Turner]

I didn't love Sixteen Candles. You surely didn't, but. Hey, you. You listening right now? Now, if you did love 16 candles, we celebrate you.

[Don McManus]

That's right.

[Rob]

So join us as we guide you down some of your fondest memories. And don't worry, we'll walk you around all the pitfalls along the way.

[Janine Turner]

So download that Aged well Dropping Monday wherever you get your podcasts.