Janine Turner (2:52)

Well, it was very palpable and I think that As I watched it, it was just one of those episodes that stayed, you know, we did over 100, 110 episodes. It was one of those episodes that is emblazoned in my memory because it was. It was powerful. It was powerful. And I was thinking about it, Rob. You know, this episode was character driven. And most of our episodes are character driven. We have one coming up, a democracy in America that I think was more story driven.

Rob (3:25)

Oh, interesting point.

Janine Turner (3:27)

Just so different when it's story driven because we don't have as much to hold on to. And I think in a way, Sicily too, was story driven. And so it kind of.

Rob (3:36)

We.

Janine Turner (3:37)

But, but when it's character driven, it's like everything's on. Everything's full heart, full throttle, whether it's comedy or just. And I. Because this show was so character driven, it was rich. It was really rich and very touching.

Rob (3:52)

I agree. And our guest, who we'll bring on in one second, is someone who I'm a huge fan of. I mean, I. From the minute he showed up on the set, I felt a kind of simpatico. And when I started, you know, I watched all the dailies and so when I watched the first days of rushes, I could, I could just sense that he had a really nice eye and a great touch. And I can't remember if he. He made a short film that won the Academy Award called the Appointments of Dennis Jennings with Stephen Wright. And I, I guess he must have given it to me. I can't imagine I watched it before he came on the show. He must have given it to me. And I just was so. I've never forgotten that film. I mean, I've seen a zillion shorts, but that one sticks in my mind. And, you know, he went on to do so many things. I mean, he, he. He did another well regarded short film called Tom Goes to the Bar with the Great Tom Newton, which won the Golden Berlin Bear. But then he went on to do. He directed Galaxy Quest. You remember that movie? I mean, it just. It's a kind of a masterful parody of, of. Of sci fi television. He did Bill and Ted's Face the Music, Charlie Countryman with an interesting cast, I hope. Maybe we'll talk to him about that. But he's had this extraordinary career and he, he's. I mean, he's directed so many great television shows, from Masters of Sex to Justified to Modern Family, Curb youb Enthusiasm, er. And he directed, as we said, three episodes of Northern Exposure, two of which are coming. The one we're going to talk about today, and one of which. And two of which are coming up in the fourth season, but he's a really cool guy. And I guess. Without further ado. Unless you want to say anything else, Jeanine?

Janine Turner (5:38)

Yeah. No. And he just flew in from Korea and hasn't had any sleep, so we feel flattered.

Rob (5:45)

Hey, Dean.

Dean (5:46)

This will help.

Rob (5:47)

There you go. What does that say? What does that coffee cup say?

Dean (5:50)

I don't know. What does it. I just grab Abbey Road.

Rob (5:54)

Abbey Road. What were you doing in Korea? Were you working or vacationing?

Dean (6:02)

Well, I had a little thing. I did a little workshop thing with a friend of mine at the Tokyo Film Festival, which was an excuse to then go on a vacation. So we went through Japan and then Korea.

Rob (6:15)

Oh. How great was it? Was it amazing?

Dean (6:17)

It was fantastic. It's my first time. Have you guys been.

Rob (6:21)

I have not been to Japan, and yet it's the. It's. It's high on my bucket list because I don't necessarily believe in reincarnation. I mean, I'd like to believe it, but I can't find any. Any, you know, scientific evidence that gives me enough. But if. If I were to believe in reincarnation, I would say that I was Japanese in another life.

Janine Turner (6:44)

Isn't that interesting?

Rob (6:46)

I don't know why, but that's the way I feel. So.

Dean (6:49)

Can I just say it's great, you guys. It's been a long time, and I miss you both.

Janine Turner (6:58)

Miss you, too. It's great to see you, Dean. And I echo what Rob said. It was always a joy working with.

Rob (7:04)

You and a pro and someone who has a. You know, it's interesting because in television, a lot of times, when someone. When a director comes along that has that. That's. I can. I'd say you have. Visionary. You know, you're a visionary. The way you see the world is visionary. And. And when directors come into TV shows that are established, they often bump up against the establishment because. Not. Because they don't want to change the thing, they don't want to change what is. And. And yet you. You were able to come on the show and put your stamp on it. There was. There was just moments. And this is. There's not a lot of. In this episode, but. But there's just these moments of, you know, I think instead of the set pieces, you just kind of went into, as Janine was saying earlier, into the characters and into what was going on. And those were such moving moments. In particular, we were talking about the end of the show.

Dean (7:57)

No, the credit Goes to an incredible cast. I mean, you guys were unbelievable. And you. You took it farther than it probably than the page. And that's. That's a. That's. That's a real. That's the biggest compliment I can give because it's. It. I hadn't seen the show in years. I just went back and saw it, and I was like, oh, my God, I loved this show. I forgot all about was because it also. It dealt with. It dealt with character and theme in a way that television hadn't before that. And also the sort of angst and emotional dilemmas of my generation. Your generation. You guys are younger than I am, but it's uncommon. You don't find it now, really.

Rob (8:53)

And how about it that it doesn't look dated? Isn't that the craziest thing? Right.

Janine Turner (8:57)

Well, it's because it's the Outback, you know, it's because we were dressed. So if you were to go in the Outback today, everybody would still sort of be dressed that way.

Dean (9:07)

Yeah, that's true.

Rob (9:08)

Yeah. It somehow holds up well.

Janine Turner (9:10)

And the producers were very, very, very. Rob, we didn't talk about a few weeks ago, you had on that baseball hat. And I remember the producers did not want you to wear that baseball hat, and you really wanted to wear that baseball hat. So you got away with it in one episode.

Rob (9:22)

No, I ended up wearing it a lot once the dam broke. There used to be this thing in television where they didn't want the actors wearing hats or sunglasses. It was the most ridiculous. I had to fight to wear sunglasses on the show as well. And I just was like, I'm out in the tundra. The sun is beating my eyes. Any normal person would wear sunglasses. And they, they. They had this thing against it.

Dean (9:46)

But.

Rob (9:46)

But nowadays you can. You can get away with it.

Janine Turner (9:49)

The wider point I'm making is just they didn't want anything trendy, you know, that looks trendy or that looked American. You know, they just wanted to kind of always remain a bit anonymous in the way our costumes looked and whatnot. And I think that was smart because that's. Because now it's timely. I mean, that holds up against time, I guess I should say. And, you know, Dean, I think it's amazing how you directed in such a way that it just flowed and the story was told in such a passionate, sensitive way. And yet your camera work was superb. The directing was superb, but it just. Sometimes, you know, the camera gets in the way and you become really obvious that that wall's been broken because the camera becomes a star because it moves or does whatever. Your, your, your, your, your directing was just sort of smooth talk, talk about the. Oh, and there was that beautiful scene in the, where they were making the whisk. Well, where they're making vodka. And I, I think my great, great, great, great, great, great greats in the, in the, in the outbacks in Texas made barley corn. A John. Barley corn is what they call it. I don't know. What, what does corn make? What liquor does corn make? What is that?

Rob (11:00)

I guess moonshine.

Dean (11:02)

It's moonshine.

Rob (11:03)

It's like pure eye. It's just like, you know, green alcohol.

Dean (11:07)

Yeah.

Janine Turner (11:07)

Okay. Well, I guess this was 100 proof what, what Holly and everybody were drinking, so I guess that's kind of similar. But, but in that scene too, the, the light was coming through in such a beautiful way. A kind of rays of light behind them in the still, as we called it. But tell us some of your thoughts about directing the show.

Dean (11:26)

Well, it's, it's odd because I, you know, if I just come on the show and not seen it, I wouldn't have remembered. But as soon as I started watching it, all this stuff started coming back. That particular scene, you know, I had seen Blood simple with the bullet holes coming through the wall with the light. And there are, there are other European films where people in barns always, you know, the lights coming from the outside, and it's a, if you smoke an environment, it looks beautiful. But also, I think for that character, at that moment, he's kind of, he's kind of buried himself in this place right, where he feels safe and, and protected and can just get raw. And I think that probably helped. I can't, I'm trying to, you know, I can't remember everything. I remember. Look, I mean, I basically love the show and I love character driven pieces. Right? It's. To me, everything starts from character. And great stories are character stories. And you guys did that every, every week.

Rob (12:34)

Let's give a little backstory about what we're talking about for the audience. Holling is having, I mean, there's multiple midlife crises going on in the show. It's actually, and this is unusual for Northern Exposure, it's thematically sound. You know, all the stories kind of are thematically connected. And Holling is having a midlife crisis at 63 years old because his family has longevity and he will live to 120 in theory. And he gets a letter that Jeanine, Maggie brings in, in the top of the show telling him his Uncle Charlie Which I know must have some kind of a reference to Uncle Charlie on. On My Three Sons, which was a show that was on when we were kids, but Uncle Charlie died, and it throws him for a loop about his own mortality and. And what it. What has he accomplished or not accomplished? And he. And he. He kind of detaches himself from his world and from Shelley and he. And he goes to a still that he has in the. In the bush and. And he kind of goes on this bender and this self, you know, mining exploration of himself.

Janine Turner (13:47)

But then John Corbett is having a midlife cri. Midlife crisis at whatever age, at 22, I guess, or 20. So. Because he thinks he's going to die in his 40s.

Rob (13:57)

Right. He talked about. He talks about that he went through his. When he was 22.

Janine Turner (14:01)

That's it. That's it.

Dean (14:02)

Yeah.

Janine Turner (14:02)

He went through his. When he was 22. He lost a whole year because he's only. Cause his. His parent. His. The male line. And his family only lived to be in their 40s. And then, Rob, you're having sort of a midlife crisis because you can't find.

Rob (14:13)

Absolutely.

Janine Turner (14:13)

So it was really thematic in that regard.

Rob (14:16)

And I love when Corbett. When Chris talks about when. When. When. When Holling says, oh, well, you. You know, you went through your. Your.

Dean (14:25)

Your.

Rob (14:25)

Your life's going to end in your 40s because of your lung, you know, your genealogy. And Chris just takes it in stride. He's so Zen. Like, he's just like, yeah, you know, so I went through, you know, it's like he's gonna die soon. Like, it just. He just. That character fascinates me.

Janine Turner (14:44)

Do we know what poem that was? It was. Well, it's a great vehicle, his character. They can do anything they want with that character.

Dean (14:49)

I think it might have been Yates. I can't remember Yates.

Janine Turner (14:52)

No, no, he says who it was.

Rob (14:53)

Oh, it's Dante. Dante is dy writing of his own midlife crisis, which is his. This story is defined by confronting one's mortality. It's 14th century. And he says. Then he adds to it, says, we look behind us. This is beautiful writing. And this is Robin. Robin gre. As a. She's a bit of a poet, too. Janine. We look behind us to see how far we've come. We realize our past isn't a solitary trail through secret woods, but a vista big and expansive as the ocean itself, with our experiences stretching to the horizon like they do. Like sailboats sucked up into the enormous sea.

Janine Turner (15:38)

Wow.

Rob (15:39)

Right. I mean, that sums it up.

Janine Turner (15:41)

Man, that's Northern Exposure right there.

Dean (15:44)

That's Dante's Inferno right there. That book.

Rob (15:47)

There you go.

Dean (15:48)

I better go back and read it again.

Rob (15:50)

I just read it recently. It's a. It's such an amazing story.

Dean (15:54)

It's great because it's. It's also about loss and about coming to terms with your lack of accomplishment or the things that you hoped you would do. The thing we always imagine we're going to do or be is never what we end up doing or being. And especially for Holling, I thought he's reached that spot where he doesn't feel like he's done anything. And what I love about the ending and what I loved about that scene in general was that what he realizes in that moment is that the love of another person, that. That love is what he's done, what he's accomplished.

Rob (16:36)

So beautiful.

Dean (16:37)

And that even though I'll admit, I'm watching the end of the scene and I remember setting up the staircase and thinking, is this over the top? Am I going too far with this? Because there is a little bit of, you know, it's a little ambiguous. Are they going to heaven? Are they going. You know, there's that. I. I kind of felt like I might have pushed it too far. I don't know. What do you think?

Janine Turner (17:02)

I thought they were just going upstairs to love on one another.

Rob (17:06)

I mean, I saw it coming when. As soon as I saw the stair, all of a sudden we cut to the side view, and I'm like, okay, they're going up there. But I thought, you know, I think it. I think it. It supported it. It didn't feel like gratuitous or anything like that. And it was such a. It needed something to. To. To button it. That was such a great. The. The performances all throughout that scene. You know, we're talking about this. The. The. The final scene of the episode where Shelley, having discovered that Holling played with hand puppets as a kid, Shelley puts on a. A puppet show for Holling, just showing him the. His. His whole.

Dean (17:48)

The whole.

Rob (17:49)

His whole journey. And, And. And I think what Dean said is true. It just. It triggers in him. You know, I guess there's something about seeing your own life. I mean, that's. There's. If you can see your life, maybe you appreciate it. And she. She kind of recreates it for him.

Dean (18:03)

She's declaring her love to him and saying that this is worth everything. And I. And to me, I just. I just. It brought back a memory of talking to John about this before the scene and talking about loss and the trauma of that and how you repair yourself, you know, from that. And I think he really was going, I was watching it this time. It's very strong performance. I think he's going through some loss at that moment. And I can't remember if there was some kind of. If we talked about some kind of, you know, memory that he could dish up or. I can't remember, but I do remember us doing a few takes and then it getting stronger and stronger.

Janine Turner (19:06)

We find Vecna. We end this once and for all.

Dean (19:09)

Together on December 25th.

Rob (19:12)

We have a plan.

Dean (19:13)

It's a bit insane. Everyone in he knows where we are. Watch out. Get ready for one last adventure.

Janine Turner (19:22)

We stay true to ourselves, stay true to our friends.

Rob (19:25)

No matter the cost.

Dean (19:28)

Found you. Stranger Things Season 5, Volume 2 begins December 25th only on Netflix.

Janine Turner (19:37)

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. Yeah, the tears in his eyes were so moving. And you know what else, Dean, I wonder what you. I'm sure you had some impact in this too, as a, as a, you know, knowing that it's character driven and working with actors and characters, it was interesting to me to watch how when he first started drinking that hundred proof vodka, you know what I mean, it didn't really show that much in, in call, in column, in, in hauling, but then it did. And as it went on and on and on, you saw him get more inebriated and more inebriated. More inebriated. And he played that so beautifully. It was just perfect. And do you have any memories? I know you, you know, there's. For people that are listening, you know, there's just this great. If you're working with a wonderful director that appreciates actors like Dean does, and we are actors who were so lucky to work with a wonderful director like Dean, there's just a harmony that starts to happen where you nurse the best out of both worlds and you, you can kind of nurse that trajectory of, of inebriation. Did you talk to him about that? Do you remember that at all?

Dean (21:11)

I don't. I mean, in general, what I love doing is you're looking At a. You're looking at something that's building to a crescendo. Right. You're also looking at emotions that, you know, the easy thing is to show it all, but people don't do that. They do this. So they're trying as hard as they can not to indicate that there's something wrong. And when you finally do blow, it's because you can't keep it in anymore, you know? And that progression in a performance is beautiful thing to see. I mean, you guys did it all the time. So, you know, you're. You're. You guys are instinctively starting small because you know you're going someplace emotionally. And that's. I think that's what makes something strong, too, is we're all like that. We don't want to cry. We don't want to show emotion. We don't want to let it out. But I also. There's another side of Northern that I forgot about, which is the absurdity. And playing those moments, throwing them away and not going, look, we're funny.

Rob (22:30)

Like, what are you talking about?

Dean (22:32)

I'm talking about Northern in general moments like Hair of the Dog. First of all, great spit take. So hard to do a spit take. But it's like, you know, it's just. It's thrown away. You're not. You're not going, look, I'm funny. You're committing 100%. It's life. This happened in the room. We're not making a joke.

Rob (22:58)

Yeah.

Dean (22:59)

Playing it straight. And in that context, the audience finds it hysterical.

Rob (23:03)

Yeah. It's the comedy of the human condition. So that's when Marilyn says, I come in hungover because I go to rescue Holling from his despair, and he ends up kind of pulling me into it. And I go down the hole and get drunk. And I come back the next morning, and Marilyn gives me. And I'm like, I'm so hungover. And she gives me something to drink, and she says, hair of the dog. Which is what people say. Angel's like, good idea, thinking he's going to be drinking some vodka or something. And he's like, what is it? And she's like, hair of the dog. Like, literally, hair of the dog.

Janine Turner (23:40)

What? I liked that moment when Elaine showed up at the still and said, it's time.

Dean (23:46)

Isn't it great?

Janine Turner (23:48)

And, of course, I guess once the story played out, probably Cynthia, you know, Shelley sent her there, but at that moment, it felt so sort of ethereal, you know, just sort of. She's like, it's time. And he believed her. You know, she came with her sort of, you know, sensory ability to say, it's time, it's time to stop. It's just time. And I don't know that anybody else could have reached Holly except her with that sort of kind of great mysticism.

Rob (24:15)

That, you know, and gravity like she. I don't know, you know, I think Dean probably got this out of her. She just had a kind of weight that we hadn't seen. You know, authority that, that we hadn't seen.

Dean (24:25)

You're done. It's over, right? It's there. I mean, there, there is that tradition in a lot of religions and, and spiritual lives where you're done grieving, right? Your time is up. Right. Because if you keep going, you're just, you're just, you're just. Your self loathing is just destructive. Right. And you have to. You have to go through it. But there's also a moment where. Okay, that's enough. You have to buck up and go out there and face the world again.

Janine Turner (25:02)

Buck up. My mother used to always say that to me as a kid. Buck up. Just buck up.

Dean (25:07)

Buck up. Right.

Rob (25:09)

Yeah. Someone told me recently something about grieving that I thought was really kind of profound, that. That grieving is the price that one pays for love.

Dean (25:20)

Yeah.

Rob (25:21)

You know, it just sounded so succinct.

Janine Turner (25:23)

I guess that sort of self absorption, you know, thinking about himself is part of that grief. You know, it's almost kind of. It's sort of almost. It's too hard to comprehend that someone's died and where are they and where have they gone? And they're never here anymore. So you sort of imbue it into other areas of your psyche and your soul. So it's almost sort of. It's a substitution. It's just. I don't know where to put this. So I'm going to put it on myself. Huh.

Rob (25:49)

Interesting.

Janine Turner (25:50)

The seven stages of Grief, you know, I guess is a book out there, right?

Rob (25:54)

Is it seven or five? I don't know.

Janine Turner (25:56)

Five, seven, eleven. I don't know. Lots.

Rob (25:59)

I think it's five. The traditional one.

Janine Turner (26:01)

I thought it was seven. Okay, well, five.

Dean (26:03)

Look it up.

Rob (26:05)

But, but you know who we haven't spoke about yet is. Is Ira Wingfeather, who played by Bri Bryson, Liberty and that story.

Dean (26:14)

Oh my God.

Rob (26:16)

Is he. Where did he come from? Did we know?

Dean (26:20)

It's a casting session, but I don't remember. I remember. I remember the casting session, but I don't know where he came from. Sorry, I don't. I remember I was gonna try. I was gonna try and bring in another actor I knew who wasn't available, and I don't know where, but do you know Gary Farmer?

Rob (26:46)

That sounds familiar.

Dean (26:47)

Pow wow Highway. Anyway, a long time ago, but he reminds me of him. But he was so. He was. He was so wonderfully open, you know, Genuine. Yeah, just genuine. It was fantastic.

Janine Turner (27:07)

There was something about him that made you believe he was from old Hollywood. You know, he kind of had that. Those long legs and that kind of John Wayne thing going on. Yeah, you. I. I believed wholeheartedly. And, you know, that's why casting is so amazing, that he was from the Holly House, Hollywood days.

Rob (27:24)

I agree. And I also believe that he was making those flutes, like. And, you know. You know, you can tell when actors are kind of like, you know, act. You know, faking it or something. But, like, I was. I thought, like, well, maybe this guy really did make flutes and that. That's how they found him or something. Like, he just. Like, when he was carving, it.

Janine Turner (27:40)

Was that someone else carving? Did you get someone else to come in and carve.

Dean (27:43)

No, no, that was him. That was him. Everything was him.

Janine Turner (27:46)

Wow.

Dean (27:47)

But, I mean, obviously, props. Props. Made a bunch of them in different states, but. But that was him carving them. And we. Yeah. It's also great that I love what happens to Ed, where he. At first he's making a movie, which is what he loves to do, but then he realizes this will be lost forever unless he learns how to do it, which is a great way to end that little story.

Janine Turner (28:15)

Well, to keep something from becoming extinct.

Rob (28:17)

Right.

Janine Turner (28:18)

And I don't think enough of that is passed on today. I remember my grandmother, my great grandmother crocheted. My grandmother taught me how to sew and embroider and. And things that nature or paint or poetry or whatever it may be, we just have lost. I was thinking about it, you know, we. Northern Exposure. What I. What I glean from Northern Exposure is the opportunity for people to think for themselves. You know, they're out there in nature. They feel. They. They're in a community. They think for themselves. We are in an environment today where we. Allowing other people to think for us. What are they saying on Instagram? What are they saying on the 24 cycle news? What are they saying? It's like, we hear. We don't. We're so inundated. It's like we don't have enough time to just be in nature and think for ourselves. And I'm struck about Northern Exposure being out there in the middle. No People have a chance to just think for themselves. Does that make sense? You know what I'm talking about?

Rob (29:15)

Absolutely. And also finds it like. I love the story about that he tells about the. How one would find the song for their flute, you know, by going into the wilderness. Kind of like what you're saying in a way, Jenny, and, and, and fasting until the song came to them, like taking that time. You know that I love these things, these stories that the show traffics and, and also, by the way, I, I think that's when they say they. He used the phrase things become extinct, which we, we rarely have the title within the, the story. You know, someone referenced the title, which I thought was interesting.

Dean (29:51)

You know, one of the great things about Northern is that it was non judgmental.

Rob (29:56)

That's the way Josh described it.

Dean (29:58)

Yeah, yeah. And that, that, that those characters are, you know, the collection of characters, like the collection of people, you know, almost. It's changing now. Maybe that we're becoming a little too homogenous, but, but to celebrate all the eccentricities of all those people, to forgive them for the things that bother you, because there are some things that are wonderful that you wouldn't know or that you learned or that you love about them. To see a collection of people like that is to be human, you know. And I would say that Northern might be becoming extinct.

Janine Turner (30:44)

You mean the genre?

Dean (30:46)

Yeah. It's a tone that's very hard to do, but it's also a very smart writing where you've got all these different points of view, but no one is actually coming to a conclusion. They're all going through this discussion of what these things are. You know, midlife crisis is this one. But you know, you guys touched on a whole lot of topics that were culturally important to us at the time that we were all wrestling with. And it managed to do it in a way that wasn't political. It didn't take sides. It didn't do any of that. It presented people who are all different having these things happening to them and these feelings and these ideas that are being presented. And I, I think, I think it was unique. Northern. I, I don't. I can't think of anything else like it.

Rob (31:47)

You're right. And it's funny because Janine and I were talking at the top of the. When we first came. Got on before we went on the air about. We were trying to under. Remember Joel, how Joel's story resolves in this particular episode. And we couldn't quite figure it out. And I think because maybe you remember the specific, but it doesn't really resolve. It just kind of. And I think, to your point, is that a lot of these storylines and a lot of the characters, it just has to take them to the next point of moving forward in life, which is a great. My favorite stories are ones that don't take characters to a conclusion, but take them to the point of change. I always think of Warren Beatty and Shampoo. You know, he's. He's this up character, but he gets. At the end, he's on this precipice, literally looking out over his existence, and, you know, he can't go back to the way he was. You don't know if he's gonna figure it out, but he can't go back.

Dean (32:45)

He can't go back.

Rob (32:47)

And I think you get that sense with Holling in this and. And. And with Ed and with Joel and.

Janine Turner (32:53)

Well, and I think. I think for your character, Rob, it was probably an awareness. You know, you were just sort of aware, like, wait, there aren't as many of us as I thought. And I'm more alone than I thought.

Rob (33:06)

Right, right. He says he's one the only Jew in Arrowhead county, which has, like, as big as Wyoming and 1400 people.

Janine Turner (33:14)

That sounds like our short story or something.

Rob (33:19)

That's funny.

Dean (33:20)

Oh, I. I hate to segue, but I saw. I saw the three episodes that I directed because I. I don't go back and look at anything, and it's been forever. Jenny, you're in Northwest Passages. You're fantastic in that episode. There's that whole thing with your boyfriends who have all died. It's hysterical. And it's. It's. It's. It's. I. I wish it was in a movie. It's a fantastic scene. They're all angry, and you're kind of, like, completely flummoxed by what's happening to you at this moment, even though you sort of know you're hallucinating. It's fantastic.

Janine Turner (34:02)

Oh, well, you'll have to come back for that episode then, because that was a lot of fun. I remember that episode very, very, very well because it was so unique.

Rob (34:09)

It was a great episode. I remember it, too.

Dean (34:12)

I remember casting Patrick. Patrick Warburton. You remember Patrick?

Rob (34:18)

Yeah, he's a pal of mine, and we're gonna try to get him on that episode.

Dean (34:20)

Yeah, yeah, you should get him. He's. He's hysterically funny.

Janine Turner (34:24)

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Rob (35:58)

Sounds sketchy.

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Dean (36:50)

Another weird coincidence. Cheryl Block just call me with a project she wants that I love. Do you remember her?

Rob (37:00)

You know, she was a real force on the show. I mean, she, she, she doesn't get the credit that she's due. It's amazing the people that, that really keep things moving. And she was able to kind of straddle so many lines and keep so many disparate types together focused. She really is gets. She doesn't get her due.

Dean (37:19)

And I, I went on to do it, almost do a project with Josh too, but it, as, you know, as usual fell apart. But, but I haven't seen him in years either.

Rob (37:31)

What was that?

Dean (37:32)

It was a, it was a show called Dr. Dave.

Rob (37:35)

Yeah, he, Josh. Josh is doing, you know, although his, his Wife just passed away recently. So I know he's talk about, he's dealing with grief and he, he was on. He was our, our first guest and was so interesting. And, and what's so cool is that we've had a lot of the writers and producers now and all the actors. But you know, when we hear about the behind the scenes, the machinations of how the show was run and you know, how Josh really was, you know, the engine, I mean, he really was the creative force behind the show and was able to harness and kind of almost create a competitive, you know, they were telling us that the writers had a competitive kind of thing where they were all trying to, you know, outdo each other, not in a, not in a, you know, a zero sum way, but, but to try to, to, to, to do something more interesting. And, and it created all these different wild storylines and they. What's. What I find fascinating is like, so this is written by Robin and Mitch, who we've had on the show. And last week we had Jeff Melvoin, I think it was, or the two weeks before. But when you read them and you watch them, they stand on their own in distinction. Their voices are different and yet they still manage to become part of the fabric of the show and not feel like it's an aberration in a great collaboration.

Dean (39:10)

That's what happens, right?

Rob (39:11)

I guess so. Yeah, you're right.

Dean (39:13)

It was a strange thing for me to go back and look at it. I have to say. Now what's going to happen is I'm going to go watch a bunch of them. But you know, I also remember a lot of. Because I came out of that sort of independent world in New York in the 80s and there was a lot of people coming through the show that came out of the independent world, not from traditional television. And to me it always felt like it was filmmaker friendly.

Rob (39:41)

Yeah. Frank Prinze was out of the New York indie world. Jimmy Heyman was our first dp. New York indie world.

Dean (39:47)

Frank shot the movie you talked about, the Steven Wright movie.

Rob (39:51)

Oh, that's. Oh my God. There is. So there is a connection. Wow.

Janine Turner (39:54)

Yeah, so that was one of my questions for you, Dean. Just walking onto a set, you know, I just remember being very, very smooth for you and for us, but it's not always that way. But to walk onto sort of an established show and then with a cinematographer that's established, talk about that correlation, especially we've talked about the actors, but with the crew and with Frank and how. And you know, looking for locations and props and all those things. How many. How many days do you have of prep to really walk through these things? Is it a week? And you have to go look at locations and then you meet Frank and did Frank go on all the location scouts?

Dean (40:31)

I wish I could remember, Janine.

Janine Turner (40:33)

I know it's only been like 30 years.

Dean (40:35)

There's a lot of water under the bridge here, you know, But I. I think we had seven or eight days to shoot it, and I think we had a week or two of prep.

Rob (40:45)

Same thing. It was eight. Eight and eight. Eight to shoot it. Eight to eight to prep it. And. And the DP would show up in the second half of the prep, you know, to kind of sign off. But. But initially, the director would go out with location scout and producers and. And then they kind of decide what they want, and then they'd bring the DP toward the end. We didn't have, you know, what's. What now is. Most shows have rotating. You know, unless they're. I guess if they're eight episodes, they don't have to worry about it. But if they're big orders of episodes, they have rotating DPs. Yeah. And so they would rotate. You know, back then, the DP was. Was wall to wall. I don't know how they did it. You know, they just would never end.

Dean (41:27)

Yeah, it was. It was hard work, I think. I think, as I recall, Frank kind of showed his nerves somewhere around Northwest Passages.

Janine Turner (41:39)

That was the first show of episode four, I believe. I mean, season four, I think that was.

Rob (41:43)

Oh, is it?

Janine Turner (41:44)

I think so.

Dean (41:45)

There's a lot of pressure in television to make that schedule because it's. It's. It's not easy. And especially back then, we're hoisting film cameras and big lights because you needed enough exposure to get the film to be. To look the way it did.

Rob (42:07)

Right now.

Dean (42:08)

With digital and with the ability of those cameras to see into darkness in the way they do, and LED lights, everything is much faster. But it was. There was a lot of, you know, you're hoisting a lot of equipment and heavy cameras. Back then, it was different. It was old school.

Rob (42:27)

Dean, what's your feeling on film versus digital? Are you. Are you just wholeheartedly in digital, or do you feel a longing for the film days?

Dean (42:34)

I mean, I love the way film looks. I can't help it. That's what I grew up on when I was younger and the movies I loved. But the digital cameras have gotten so good, and it's so easy to manipulate them that The. But the best of both worlds is to shoot film and then finish in digital, because then you get both.

Janine Turner (42:57)

I did my short film that way.

Dean (42:59)

Yeah. The problem now is that the film stock is so expensive and the cameras are not really well maintained because they're ancient. And so it's much harder to pull off. But I. I don't know how to answer that question, because I shot in both. I also went through the visual effects from practical to complete cgi. Right. So I went through that transition as well.

Rob (43:27)

And you were a DP I spotted on your imdp. At first, yeah.

Dean (43:32)

I wouldn't call me a dp, but when I left film school, I shot a lot of documentaries.

Rob (43:39)

Where'd you go to film school?

Dean (43:40)

Nyu.

Rob (43:41)

Is that where you knew Frank from?

Dean (43:42)

Yeah. Well, after. Just a little bit afterwards, yeah. And so, yeah, I shot. For a little while, I shot some. A lot of documentaries. Kids. Some kids shows, some soap operas, all kinds of weird stuff. And then. But in the meantime, I was trying to get enough money to shoot my.

Janine Turner (44:03)

First short film, the one that won the Academy Award. How can I see that?

Rob (44:08)

That's the second one, I think, but it's. You could. I think you can get it online, probably.

Dean (44:12)

I have no idea, actually. I haven't looked at that in 30 years either.

Rob (44:17)

Janine. Right. I'll send you the title. It's called the Appointments of Dennis Jennings. And it start. That was the second one, the one that won the Academy Award. It was with Stephen Wright, and it's so fascinatingly interesting and distinct. And so is the first one, which is Tom Noonan. You remember Tom Noonan, Janine. Great, great actor you've seen. And I can't believe he wasn't on Northern Exposure. He'd be perfect to come on Northern Exposure.

Dean (44:40)

Oh, he would have been great.

Janine Turner (44:42)

Well, I'll. I'll go on record as saying I like film better and I like the lighting and film better. I am not a fan of the lighting these days on. On digital. I just think it's. It didn't have that depth.

Rob (44:53)

There's a lot of good lighting, you know, on. On TV now, you know, you have to. There's. There's stuff out there you can make.

Janine Turner (45:00)

If I see one more who has his back to the window, this face is completely.

Rob (45:04)

I know that's your pet peeve, but there's a lot of good lighting going on. You can make it look good. You can make it look filmic. Maybe not as. As romantic as what we remember, but it's. It's pretty Good. There's. There's some. Some great cinematography going on.

Dean (45:18)

But it's also easier to be crappy. It's easier to be lazy and crappy and shoot because you don't really have to understand as the same thing. You don't. You know, we used to call it a thick negative back then. It's a well exposed piece of work that. That is lit rather than just found. And you can get away with all kinds.

Janine Turner (45:43)

Yeah. If you compare it to say, Casablanca was on him. I was just in the hospital again with my mom and Casablanca was on. Right. And Ingrid Bergman's eyes were lit in such a beautiful way, you know, and she had those tears and it was just so gorgeous. Gorgeous. And I. What you say, I think Dean is. Is true. There's just a laziness now. I can't. I've done projects where there. It's dark in the room. I'm like, where are the lights? Like, oh, we're gonna do it in post, you know, and they do it post and everything looks monochromatic. It just looks crazy. But there, it's a. It's a little bit of a lost art, unfortunately. I know that it can still be done, but that whole kind of romanticism to lighting seems to be gone, you know?

Dean (46:25)

Yeah, it's. You know, obviously you. You apply the aesthetic. The artfulness of it is applied to what's appropriate to the story. Right. So sometimes a documentary look is appropriate to a story and sometimes you're telling something in a more stylized way and it's not so. But I just miss. There's some great DPs. I mean, you know, Roger Deakins and people like that are phenomenal DPs. And those, those movies are digital. The last Blade Runner was Deacons. That's beautiful.

Rob (47:03)

Yeah, absolutely.

Janine Turner (47:04)

Blade Run, the original Blade Runner is one of my all top five movies. I'll have to watch the new one. Is it as good as the first one, the new Blade Runner?

Dean (47:11)

No.

Rob (47:16)

But it's got some cool stuff going on cinematically. It's very cool. It's Denis Villeneuve.

Dean (47:22)

He really hit his stride in the dunes. I think the. The second Dune is fantastic.

Janine Turner (47:26)

That's true. Okay. I guess I shouldn't beat it up so much. I do have a question for you. When. When. When John Corbett was drinking with Holland and he got Holling and he got on his four legs like he was going to howl or something. Was that your idea? Do you remember at all? Because that was really fun.

Dean (47:43)

I don't remember. I wish I Did I know John would come up with lots of crazy stuff, but I. I can't remember. But you all did, by the way, come up with crazy stuff.

Rob (47:53)

You know, that's a great point, Dean, because I think, you know, there's something about. I call it the director's gaze. You know, what you can tell when you've got a director that just loves to watch and get so absorbed in what they're seeing. And when we, as actors, we feel that. We feel that energy coming through either if you are watching from a monitor or in the old days when you have to sit by the camera, you know, we feel that the actors feel it. You feel like you're being seen and that every little subtle thing you do is being acknowledged. And it's really. You know, it's comforting.

Dean (48:35)

It's the most fun thing in the world when you start building a scene for me because I. Because I'm basically there watching this thing happen. And when it really starts to cook, it is just. It just. It sails. It's like everything else is gone. And you're just focused on this performance and that. To watch you guys, to build a performance and to create an environment where it's safe to fail is also, I think, really important because it gives you the room to try stuff that you might not try. It's a difficult thing to. To collaborate, you know, to figure out how you get all these people together who are all at the top of their game giving everything to something. It's like what. What that feels like is. Is addictive.

Janine Turner (49:31)

I love that. The freedom to fail. I really. I really love that. You know, because I was trained that way. Take it as far out as you can, you know, and you can always bring it back. But you gotta get it full throttle. If you can get full. And that's what I was always trying to do. I was always trying to get full. Like, full, you know, right before action. You know what I mean? It's like, let me be full. And then once I know I have that level of emotional sort of fulfillment, then I can. When the action happens, I could start putting all the covers on it that needed to be there.

Dean (50:03)

Yeah, you need to blow it out.

Janine Turner (50:05)

Yeah, yeah. And then you kind of COVID it up with the layers. But if you're just starting with the layers and you don't have that kind of cooking underneath, it's.

Rob (50:12)

It's.

Janine Turner (50:12)

It's not as dynamic, I don't think. But I love that freedom to fail. That.

Rob (50:17)

That's really the thing about failing is when you it, you have to trust the director to be willing to fail because so, you know, I, I, I remember not so much as I'm older, but back in the day you didn't want to do something that you felt you were going to look bad because you didn't know who was going to get their hands on that footage and what they were going to do with it. But when you've got someone like Dean, you just knew, okay, if he tells me to, you know, jump up and down and, or get on the ground and howl, I'm gonna do it because if it doesn't work, he's not going to use it. And it's just a, it's a great thing.

Janine Turner (50:48)

Yeah. And we trusted you, Dean.

Dean (50:50)

I don't know why. I don't know. You shouldn't have. It shouldn't have stressed me at all.

Janine Turner (50:55)

Well, I know that freedom to fail must have been there because John Corbett got on those four for all fours. You know, it's, it's, it's intimidating for an actor to suddenly talk about going all the way is to go out there and get on all fours. And I was thoroughly expecting him to howl.

Dean (51:09)

I have a question for you guys. I remember this story. I don't know if I was doing it or somebody else was doing. We're doing a car rig through town and one policeman is stopping traffic and the other one gave us a speeding ticket. 35 and a 25 zone. Yeah.

Rob (51:36)

Yeah, they, they kind of liked us. They, they had a love hate relationship with us up there. There were certain of the police force that didn't want us there and they didn't want to have to work for Hollywood and you know, but that's a great. That I remember that.

Dean (51:53)

No, there's a whole story in the, how the town dealt with it, I thought was. I also remember a story and I don't know if this is true. I can't remember who told me that they were going through a rough negotiation with some guy in the town who left all his equipment running. That was on one of my shoots. Anyway, he left all his heavy equipment running on the street.

Rob (52:19)

Oh, to bother us. Right.

Dean (52:22)

And that, that somebody wrote a script where the town burns to the ground and you all migrate to a different town and left it in the drugstore by mistake. And it solves the problem.

Rob (52:40)

I never heard that one. That's a new one to me. I feel like I've heard a lot of them, but that one's new.

Janine Turner (52:45)

Wow. That would be. So we could switch towns.

Rob (52:48)

No, because so that they would scare the town into thinking we were leaving.

Janine Turner (52:53)

Oh, and they behave themselves.

Dean (52:55)

I hope no one's listening.

Janine Turner (52:59)

Well, the minute we, they, they, they think we're gonna leave. I have a cinematic question because we were talking about Rob. I always remember when we were on the show, you liked it when directors watched us from the camera instead of watching on the monitors. Because back then the monitors were not what they are today. Because an act, a director, when he's really standing by the camera can see the nuances. But, but I guess we've, we've kind of progressed in such a way. How do you feel, Dean, about whether you're watching by the camera, which is kind of the old fashioned way, or watching through a monitor? These. But now the monitors are much bigger and better.

Dean (53:30)

They're better. But I, I have to say, I've spent my life by the camera, so I'm always by the camera. I always have been. To me, I, it's different. What I will do is go back and check on the monitor after it's done. But, but also there's more of an intimate, I guess, experience for me if I'm right there. And I will also look through the camera, which most people don't do anymore. But this might be just old school me, but I prefer being right there in the midst of the hurricane, not back in miles away.

Rob (54:13)

But you know what I just want to remember, I was just, you know, Janine and I were talking about things we remember and watching the show, I just remember there were so many months where we'd be in the rain or the snow and we finished work and this, this one had a lot of that dank cold, you know, and I'm wearing like, I can tell I'm wearing long underwear underneath my clothes. And, and that, that feeling at the end of the day of feeling like the, the cold is going right to your bones and you're never going to get warm again. I just remember for years that was a state we lived in.

Dean (54:50)

It's true. It was always. It was. It's that wet cold where you just can't get warm, right? It's like. So it's humid and cold at the same time. And you're like, I, why can't I get warm? No matter how many layers, I'm still free. Plus, you're standing around, you're not exercising. So the blood isn't flowing. No, it's. I'm surprised they didn't have to pry us off the, you know, the grip stands because we're frozen but it's. But that also was. It was. Those mountains were beautiful.

Rob (55:21)

Yeah.

Janine Turner (55:22)

Oh, yeah. That scene when. That scene when Ed and. And I forget the character's name, but they're walking through the, The. The mountain in the background and the big open field and they're looking for the trees with his tomahawk.

Rob (55:36)

That's Ira Wingfeather. Yeah, I agree. It was beautiful. Just beautiful. Well, I think we're kind of running out of time, but, Dean, we could, you know, I think I'm with Janine. We bring you back and do it again.

Dean (55:50)

You guys are very sweet, but it's just. It was just. I couldn't pass up the chance to see you guys again. And also seeing the show was just fantastic. I mean, you're now going to. As a result of this, I'm going to now spend way too much time revisiting all the episodes.

Rob (56:10)

It's the best part of doing this is getting to watch them and then reconnect and reminisce. It's a real gift.

Janine Turner (56:18)

It's a happy place. Northern Exposure is a happy place.

Dean (56:21)

It was happy for me.

Janine Turner (56:23)

Yeah, it's fulfilling. It's fulfilling for the soul. It's fulfilling for the humor. And it just.

Rob (56:29)

It's a.

Janine Turner (56:30)

It's a. It's a. It was. It was a gift for us all, wasn't it? Northern Exposure was a real gift.

Rob (56:34)

Yeah.

Dean (56:34)

Yeah, it was.

Rob (56:35)

It was a gift. You're right.

Janine Turner (56:36)

Well, thanks for coming on, Dean. It's great to see you again.

Dean (56:40)

Good to see you guys. And cool, cool podcast. Have fun.

Janine Turner (56:46)

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming, Rob. Always good to see you. And so we'll be back next week. And for now, from o' Connell and Fleischman, we're to going to sign off and see you next.

Rob (56:57)

Actually, I think it should be Fleischman.

Janine Turner (56:58)

Oconnell in your dream. Fleischman.

Dean (57:01)

This is what I had to deal with right here.

Janine Turner (57:10)

Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

Dean (57:23)

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half the price, not half the service.

Janine Turner (57:35)

Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah.

Dean (57:43)

Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch up front payment of $45.

Janine Turner (57:47)

Plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow 135 gigabytes of network busy taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com.

Dean (58:00)

Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am.

Rob (58:02)

So excited to tell you about my.

Dean (58:04)

New podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated.

Rob (58:23)

Including number one New York Times bestseller.

Dean (58:26)

Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning.

Rob (58:29)

Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own.

Dean (58:31)

Best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories. And I was able to a massive.

Rob (58:40)

Fan of my friend and mentor LeVar.

Dean (58:43)

Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads.

Rob (58:46)

When he finished his final season, I.

Dean (58:48)

Realized how much I missed it, so.

Rob (58:51)

I asked him if I could take.

Dean (58:52)

A shot at picking up where he left off and to my delight he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love.

Rob (59:06)

Pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine, Lightspeed on Spec, and others.

Dean (59:11)

You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who.

Rob (59:15)

Are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time.

Dean (59:21)

I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more.

Rob (59:28)

It's Story Time with Will Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts.

Janine Turner (59:32)

I hope you'll join me.