Rob Morrow (2:03)

We wish her the best. So speaking of moms, this show has got a lot of mom in it. We meet. We meet Maggie's mom in this episode called Burning down the House, which was written by Robin Green, once again, the prolific Robin gre. And Rob Thompson, our producer at this point, he becomes an ep, I think, eventually, right? But he's a producer on this episode and he directed it and did just. You know, it's such a. It's an iconic episode people talk about. It's one of the ones that people talk about all the time because of the fling, which happens at the end. Chris Stevens, art project. And I love this episode. I mean, I. It's. It's about art you know, it's, it's. And Northern, you know, occasionally deals with the idea of art and what it means to us culturally and, and. And as a civilization. And. And they. They hit on a lot of cool things here, as well as being a story about a mother and daughter. And, And. And I thought your performance is really, really moving. My wife was watching him at Devon and. And she kept saying, God, Janine is so good in this. You know, it's just a really. There's so much going on for you. You must have had fun. Do you have any memory of making it?

Janine Fleischman (3:23)

I had this one. I remember everything. And I just want to. And thank you for those kind words. You're always wonderful. Larry. Ko that whole third storyline there.

Rob Morrow (3:31)

But Larry co's funny.

Janine Fleischman (3:34)

I feel better now, you know, But. But of course, this episode is iconic. They had T shirts. It's not what you fling. It's the fling itself. And I have a lot of memories with the show, and I just want to give a shout out to Bibi Bash, who's passed. And I wish so much watching her in the show that she were still alive. I. I kind of had a real affin her and we connected. And this show. This show was a. Was a great show, a great arc for me. I was really excited to be able to show, you know, in this episode, Maggie takes her walls down because it's forced upon her with the burning of the house. So you finally see a vulnerable Maggie, a teary Maggie, a Maggie that's. That's trying to cope and that she's upset. And that relationship, the way they wrote it, between mother and daughter was just fascinating, fabulous. And. And I think one of the things. And I remember everything about it. I remember filming when the house was burning that night. Really. It'd be fascinating to find how they did that. And then when I showed up with John Corbett and we walked through, we were freezing cold. It was freezing cold. We walked through the burnt house. You know, I remember everything about that. I remember all my scenes with BB Besh and the kind of arc that happens. And I think one of the things I really. The scene on the bench where she doesn't want to talk to her mother at all. And her mother comes, she goes, I wish I'd burned down the house, which.

Rob Morrow (4:57)

Ends in such a great. I love the shot. It ends with a kind of a wide shot of the two of you on the bench and the antler horns or the moose horns up there. It's just a beautiful tableau on the bench outside on the bench. Yeah.

Janine Fleischman (5:11)

Yeah. And she goes, I wish I burned down the house earlier. And then her mother had actually burned. Thought about it when I was 2. When Maggie was 2, burning the house down then. And she looks at her and goes, is it some sort of pattern? And she goes, you need to burn the house down. You need to do something with your life. And these great lines by Robin Green. She goes, mom, I live in Alaska. I'm a pilot. I mean, it's just so great. But that I think at the very end, when she goes in to see her mother and just the maturity and growth of Maggie o', Connell, to be able to look at her mother and the vulnerability when she asks her mother to stay for a few days, and she doesn't. Maggie's never gonna let you know. She needs something like, you could stay a few days, mom, if you like. And she doesn't. And she. She accepts her mother for who she is at that moment. She's very depressed about it can make me cry. Right. But she accepts her mother at that moment. And I thought that was a real kind of maturity of Maggie. And. But I love seeing the vulnerability, you know, you. And I love this with the hair back and the clothes that don't match.

Rob Morrow (6:13)

It's. So. It's an interesting arc. So the arc would be. It's by accepting her mother, she accepts herself ultimately. Right. And. And, you know, I think it's an interesting thing because we said, you know, the whole theme of the show is art. And even though your storyline is not around art, it's. It is in. In that I think, you know, Picasso. I don't know if this is a quote from the show, but Picasso said that every creative act starts with an act of destruction, you know, and so your house, the creative act of your life, is facilitated by this act of destruction. You know, it's all that. The things about the phoenix rising from the ashes and all that. And it really feels like Maggie has a turning point here. Of course, like all our characters, they regress the next episode a little bit, but not totally. Like, there's something here, you know, and certainly the audience knows her better. And your performance was great. I'll tell you the synopsis that it says on on IMDb, which also this is listed as season three, episode 14, although Amazon has it as season three, episode 13. But the synopsis they give is Maggie's mother visits unexpectedly and is bearing some unwanted news. Chris is looking for visual inspiration for his next conceptual art project, and Joel is convinced that a local chimney sweep is A former pro golfer. So we'll give a. A shout out to John Jackson, who played Lar Co. And also, I just want to point out that Bibi Besh's daughter, Samantha Mathis, is. Is a lovely girl. I know. And really terrific actress.

Janine Fleischman (7:54)

That's right. That's right. Yeah. And, you know, if you think about it too, when she says, you didn't just ruin my life, you ruined my.

Rob Morrow (8:01)

Life, I think, yeah, that's a great line.

Janine Fleischman (8:04)

Right. And to be able to find a way to emotionally get to that depth of layers, you know, to play those lines and have them just be not indicated, but to be coming from someplace that's really genuine. But her mother first comes and tell her she's getting divorced. So everything she thought her life was built upon. So in that respect, it is kind of everything burns down in her life. Not only her house, but her whole perception of her parents and family and what that meant. And she has to kind of rise up from that.

Rob Morrow (8:30)

Well, let's bring out our. Our beautiful and lovely guest.

Janine Fleischman (8:33)

We have our beautiful, lovely co star, Cynthia Geary. And I just adore her. We have become closer and closer and closer, and I just, I just think she's amazing. And I was talking to Cynthia yesterday. I said, cynthia, we talk about you on the show all the time, how brilliant your performances are. You know, when you were dressed up as a 50s or when you're, you know, Holly thought your feet were big, but your performances are just iconic and it was the first thing you ever did, so. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Cynthia Gary. We're so happy to have her with us today.

Cynthia Geary (9:03)

Hi. Thanks for having me again to talk about a show that I did nothing in.

Janine Fleischman (9:09)

That's not true.

Cynthia Geary (9:10)

Oh, well, you know, I walk in and who knows, I can't even remember what I said, but I was listening to your intro. And one of my favorite things, it's a line that you said, Janine, in this show. And it's. You said, my whole life I've been rebelling against something that didn't exist. And that really hit me now that I'm a mom of close to almost adult children. And you look back at your parents and that's what I think. One of the things that strikes me now, watching the show 30 years later is how just spot on everything was and how they, they were so subtle about the way they did things and said things, but really the points they made. You know, I look and I'm like, you're right. You know, I look at my parents and I'M so appreciative. And just all of the things that I thought I was rebelling against now I'm like, they were, right.

Rob Morrow (10:22)

Yeah, for sure. And also, like the, you know, what you're talking about in terms of the details and the way they set things up. I mean, just the way Maggie's dressed, you know, in that kind of mohair sweater and the frilly shirt.

Janine Fleischman (10:34)

Hilarious.

Rob Morrow (10:35)

Yeah, it's really funny. And it changes her completely.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (10:39)

Yeah.

Cynthia Geary (10:39)

You're dressed like you would have as a child for your mother, you know, to all of that wanting your mother's acceptance and that we do as kids, but we don't want to admit it.

Janine Fleischman (10:55)

So true. And I think when we get older, you know, we're all in our. Well, you're not quite 60 yet, are you? 60, Cynthia? I don't know. I'm 62.

Cynthia Geary (11:02)

I'm 60.

Janine Fleischman (11:03)

Okay. Well, we're all in our 60s now, so. But we can look back now and life teaches us. Oh, wait. I can relate to my parents so much more now, and I can be so much more forgiving of them now than I was then. Right.

Cynthia Geary (11:19)

I have told my parents so many times. I remember, like, after I had had my children, and these were when they were six, still young and babies, and I called my mother one day and I said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I was so hard, you know, I mean, which, I don't know. I was a good kid. I didn't get in a lot of trouble. But just that, you know, you just. You don't realize how much your parents love you and do for you and care and want the best for you.

Rob Morrow (11:54)

Right? Yeah, it's a. It's. It's the great gift, you know, and you don't. And. And it's funny that it takes a lifetime to realize. Realize it, you know, that we can't know it then, but once you have a kid, you certainly know it when.

Janine Fleischman (12:08)

The older you get, the more fallible we all seem and the more forgiving we can be of. Of our parents.

Cynthia Geary (12:12)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Janine Fleischman (12:15)

And the way I thought. Bibi Besh was amazing in this episode, too. I thought she played it spot on.

Cynthia Geary (12:21)

Yeah, she was great.

Rob Morrow (12:22)

And she was. By the way, both of you are. Both you and Bebe are in Steel Magnolias.

Janine Fleischman (12:27)

That's right. That's right. We had the experience together in Natchitoches, Louisiana. That's right. That's right. We were the Cream Cheese family. That's. I had worked with John Cullum, Barry Corbin and Bebe Besch. Before Northern Exposure.

Cynthia Geary (12:44)

Well, I even think. I mean. And maybe I'm wrong, Janine, but I think. Think she looks a little like your mom.

Rob Morrow (12:51)

A little bit. For sure.

Cynthia Geary (12:52)

You guys, that had a.

Janine Fleischman (12:54)

You looked.

Cynthia Geary (12:55)

She was great casting.

Janine Fleischman (12:56)

Yeah, she was. And you know, it spooked me because. And I asked Josh about this later. It's like, no, no, we didn't know. My mother loved and still loves orange marmalade. And so I have to go in there and get orange marmalade. And it's like before Siri. It's like before they could have been listening. I'm like, how did they know that my mother loves orange marmalade? It was just kind of weird.

Rob Morrow (13:18)

I love the whole. The J. Wrote it down. The Jane O' Connell regime. Swim, 66 laps a day, hot lemon water, half a dry English muffin with Marmee. Every Saturday, every morning, 66 laps.

Cynthia Geary (13:33)

So, okay, I have to admit, I had to watch the show last night so I would remember it because, you know, you forget.

Rob Morrow (13:41)

Oh, yeah. No, you have to.

Cynthia Geary (13:42)

And it was really funny because I think just maybe a couple of days ago I was out walking the dog with my husband and I was. We were talking about Northern Exposure and just talking about the things. Like, I'm like, oh, yeah. You know, there was one episode where Jeanine talked about Ferragamo shoes. And then Ferragamo starts sending shoes like it was before they product placement. Which now today we're so used to it. You know, I'm watching TV and seeing, you know, Gain Detergent has. Has the wizard of Oz on it or something, which I'm like, how does that connect? But. But you can get Oz scented Gain Detergent, right? Really? There is a commercial. It smells like Oz.

Rob Morrow (14:29)

And I'm like, I guess Oz smells clean or something.

Cynthia Geary (14:32)

Marketing person said, that's a great connection. But I just remember the Ferragamo shoes and how cool my. I. Shelly at one point said something about Swatch watches. And I have all these swat. Swatch sent me like their Swatch collection. It's so cool.

Janine Fleischman (14:51)

Why do I remember none of that? I don't remember anybody sending me anything.

Rob Morrow (14:56)

Yes, you got stuff. We all got. I got so much stuff. I still have stuff out in the.

Janine Fleischman (15:00)

Honestly, I don't think I did. I don't. I didn't. I don't remember anybody sending Ferragamo shoes.

Cynthia Geary (15:05)

I remember everybody talking. Or maybe that was the conversation. It was, you wanted Ferragamo shoes and you didn't get. The rest of us had gotten Stuff. I mean, if you happen to mention something, you know, I had got Swatch watches, and maybe it was like, we're all like, where are the Ferragamo shoes?

Rob Morrow (15:27)

Yeah, I would go in there every. Every season and. And, you know, I was playing a lot of golf at the time, and Joel played golf. So I would say. I would mention the kind of golf club I wanted, and. And then, you know, they would show up a week later.

Janine Fleischman (15:39)

Okay. I don't know, man, but I'm glad y' all got some. Some swag.

Cynthia Geary (15:44)

Ray Ban.

Rob Morrow (15:45)

Ray Bans.

Cynthia Geary (15:46)

I miss those days.

Rob Morrow (15:48)

Again, this episode, to me, deals thematically with. With so many things that are important to me. And art is like, the central, most important thing of my life. And the way. The way Chris comes up with this idea of flinging something, first it's a cow, you know, as. Because he wants to do something that's never been done, which is just such a great. You know, I mean, that's what we all strive for. Like, I know I get so frustrated when I feel like I'm doing something that's been done before. And. And his journey is great. It's him, too. The way he looks. He's so. He's like, in this disheveled, you know, jumpsuit, and his hair is a mess, and he's just completely enthralled with this. With this project. It's. I. I just. I just found it really, really fun and, And. And. And such a great idea.

Janine Fleischman (16:40)

Did you notice every time they played, you were in one of Chris's scenes? You know, we all have our own theme music. And when they were playing Chris scenes, did you notice it was like a medieval tune?

Rob Morrow (16:51)

Oh, was that it? I didn't. I don't think I did.

Janine Fleischman (16:53)

Yeah. Yeah. The music was, in my opinion at least, was kind of medievally, you know, something coming out of medieval times. Because it was kind of this whole medieval thing. Flinging something, building up.

Rob Morrow (17:04)

Catapult, by the way, that thing, that fling, that catapult. They. They brought in this guy from London, I think, who worked for Python and did theirs, but. But was from London. They flew him in, and he had about 10 days to design this thing. And when you look at it, when we see the wide shot of. Of it, it's incredible feat of. Of engineering and really beautiful. I forgot where it ended up.

Cynthia Geary (17:32)

Well, it was in a field in Rosslyn somewhere for a long time.

Rob Morrow (17:38)

Oh, they left it there.

Cynthia Geary (17:40)

They did, but I think it had since been moved or someone bought it or dismantled it and took it somewhere else. But it's really interesting. My husband is a mechanical engineer, and so he's watching that thing and he said, oh, yeah, you know, the difference between a catapult and a trebuchet is a catapult, you put something in the arm and the arm moves slowly and it throws something. But a trebuchet, when that was developed, it's the rope on the end that starts moving really, really fast. And you see the piano move really fast and it gives it. It's so much more. The velocity is stronger and it's more violent. And I remember watching that and I'm like, oh, well, that makes total sense because when we were watching it, the piano started to disintegrate in the air before it hit the ground. And it's because of the force on it.

Janine Fleischman (18:43)

So it's really a trebuchet. It's really a trebuchet then.

Rob Morrow (18:46)

It is a trebuchet. Yeah. And the way Rob shot it was so great. I think he had four cameras running, you know, and one or two of them in slow motion.

Janine Fleischman (18:56)

Yeah. On the ground and above.

Rob Morrow (18:58)

Yeah. And it was just so. So he prolonged the whole sequence and.

Janine Fleischman (19:05)

You know, made it with 2001 Space Odyssey music.

Rob Morrow (19:09)

With the 2001 Space Odyssey music.

Cynthia Geary (19:12)

That was great.

Rob Morrow (19:13)

And the way they cut to each of us, it's one of the. Again, it's one of these. My. One of my favorite things in this series are these events where we're all there for. And they. We see all of our reactions. You know, they were. And. And do remember when we filmed it, they couldn't. When they filmed our close ups, they. They couldn't fling the. The piano because it was just. They could only had two pianos or I don't know how many they had, but they couldn't do. Keep doing it. So there was. Was. Was Jim Charleston with a long stick with a tennis ball. And we were supposed to kind of follow it and just kind of like imagine what's going on and then someone be yelling and now it's breaking apart.

Janine Fleischman (19:55)

You know, I remember that. I remember. Cynthia, do you remember that? I actually remember that.

Cynthia Geary (20:00)

Yeah. I remember watching the real thing and it was so cool because everyone cheered. I mean, it was. You know, we didn't know what to expect. And they're like, okay, we gotta get it in this one shot.

Rob Morrow (20:11)

Well, I guess that's what I mean is that these. All these scenes where events happen and we're all watching them. We are. We are moved as characters, but as people, we're equally as moved so it's not fake. Like, we're not faking that. It's like, oh, oh, my God, there's a piano flying through the air.

Janine Fleischman (20:28)

Yeah.

Cynthia Geary (20:29)

It was so cool.

Janine Fleischman (20:30)

That's interesting for two reasons, I think one of which is. And Rob, you kind of touched on this. We all responded to it in our own. In our character's own, from our own perspective. You know, Maggie's looking at it like, okay, that was a piano from my house that just burned down, that type of thing. So I think that's really interesting. But also I think it's interesting of note that we watched kind of in a master shot, or maybe cameras weren't even on us. We watched it fling and they weren't on us. We watched it fling and get destroyed when the cameras were turned around on our faces, we were looking at the tennis ball. They didn't do it again. So we all had to pretend that we were watching something.

Rob Morrow (21:06)

Right. But I think we. I can't remember whether we probably shot our close up second, so we had at least the experience to draw on.

Janine Fleischman (21:14)

Well, that's acting.

Rob Morrow (21:15)

That's where that's acting.

Janine Fleischman (21:17)

Yeah.

Rob Morrow (21:18)

I go and I wrote down what Chris says because I thought it was just so cool. I go to encounter for the millionth time the reality of experience and to forge the smithy of my soul, the uncreated conscience of my race.

Cynthia Geary (21:37)

Wow.

Rob Morrow (21:38)

It's about a commitment to become a great artist.

Cynthia Geary (21:41)

That was the other thing. I gotta say, that's impressive. The Corbett's dialogue especially. It was always heavy and, you know, full of references to famous writers and poets and artists. But this one, he had so many. Just speeches, paragraphs, and, you know, that was. It was impressive.

Rob Morrow (22:06)

I have such respect, you know, I had respect for him then, but watching these episodes and seeing what he had to do, and he made it seem so organic, effortless. Yeah. Like it just kind of came and you. And you buy it. Like there's something. There's something amazing about the way they wrote for him. We always talk about it.

Janine Fleischman (22:26)

And the last scene with the fling. The fling itself, you know, he was talking about all the philosophers, and he had a mouthful, you know, and when he had to do that and. And. But I loved the way, you know, Mimi, we think we're gonna have on as a guest at some point, but his. His. My clothes were really great. Those kind of just. I loved looking like a hobo, you know, that adds so much to my character for what she was going through. But. But Corbett's character was great too. With the kind of dashing night type of flowing. Jack.

Rob Morrow (22:53)

They were so smart, the way they. Like, you know, when we go to Cynthia's earrings, which are a set piece unto themselves, you know, every episode, her earrings reflected some kind of plot point or story point. And. And. And, you know, it's. It'll be interesting to speak to Mimi about it because it's like. It's tricky to. To, you know, have the characters do reflect the story without also taking away from who they are. You know, like, all of a sudden, Chris is in this jump shoot and Maggie's in this frilly shirt, you know, but it was appropriate to that story, and it seemed to work. And you can just. I just kept thinking, like, oh, what does Maggie have, like, one drawer? The bottom drawer has, like, one outfit that she saves for when she's going home or when her mother comes. And. And. And the way her mother talks to her, you know, think she's so condescending. You know, you start to understand a lot of why Maggie is the way she is. You know, I mean, her mother's. You know, when she says, did you have a clean towel? You know, it's like. Which ends up being the thing that burns the house down.

Janine Fleischman (23:58)

You know, I thought about that, that this is one of the reasons Maggie's probably so closed off, you know, because she really holds all of her feelings. She hides a lot of her feelings. She doesn't really show them often.

Rob Morrow (24:08)

Right.

Janine Fleischman (24:08)

Because first of all, she's losing all those boyfriends. So she's getting a bit of, you know, she's getting a bit callous, you know, wary. But also, she never got really any affirmation or. No one, really. You know what it is? No one. They didn't see her.

Rob Morrow (24:22)

Right. They projected who they wanted her to be. Exactly.

Cynthia Geary (24:25)

The beauty queen. Yeah. She had to be the point. Country club beauty queen.

Rob Morrow (24:30)

That's why she's such a great character, because she's so different. You know, she's forged this life. Talk about the smithy of my soul. She's forged this life for herself that is, you know, so. So the antithesis of the way she was brought up.

Janine Fleischman (24:46)

That's why I love that line. Well, I'll say it again. You know, when she goes, burn the house down, Maggie, just burn the house down. Which was where her mother was. Her mother was in, like. Let me start. And Maggie's like, mom, I live in Alaska. I fly a plane. I just think that was one of my favorite favorite lines. But, Cynthia, I. I think that those scenes that you were in were also wonder wonderful because that dialogue that the four of you had around the table and I think there were was it all one scene that was, that was some brilliant dialogue as well. And y' all did a great job.

Rob Morrow (25:22)

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Janine Fleischman (27:08)

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Cynthia Geary (27:10)

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Janine Fleischman (28:12)

You know, like, what's flow? You know, nobody knows what flow is, right? Yeah. Column's like, I don't know. But of course Corbin knew. But there was some. You remember, you watched it again and then Rob, you come in and you realize and everybody's. Nobody gets what you're trying to say about golf. And everyone's like, well, it's okay to fail every now and then. And it's okay to move on and move to Alaska and Greenland and no one, no one sees what you see. But let's talk about those scenes for a minute that you were in, Cynthia, because I thought they were kind of fun. And I also love the scene with Corbett that you had at the very beginning when you're seeing kind of this renaissance, you know, Leonardo da Vinci type of character with his drawings. Yeah, talk about those first.

Rob Morrow (28:51)

And she's so open. Shelly's just so, like, curious and open. Like she's just. And accepting. Accepting is the word.

Cynthia Geary (28:59)

Well, that's. Janine and I were chatting yesterday and just talking about it and I said, well, a lot of that was, well, a. I think Shelly was. I approached her like a child. And again, going back to the wardrobe thing, my wardrobe helped me so much, my costume. Because, you know, as we talked about on a previous podcast that Katherine Bentley had the idea and we sat and talked about it, that she dresses like a child. I mean, you know, it's all the colors and all this stuff going on and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And everything is kind of mismatched.

Rob Morrow (29:45)

It's funny because as you're saying that I'm remembering my daughter, like when she was 4, the way she would put on these colored tights and a skirt and like a hoodie and a dress.

Cynthia Geary (29:53)

And a dress and the boots and yeah, you think it's weird, but then you look at a four year old and you're like, oh, yeah, I get it. And that really informed my character because I like Immediately understood. Oh, it's not. She's not stupid. She's open, like you said, and she's seeing the world, and everything is new and exciting. She hasn't formed these opinions. And again, I think it's like, you know, the whole show is about. We see ourselves one way, and we've told ourselves, oh, this is who I am. And I'm like this. And then all of a sudden, something changes and we go, wait a minute. Who am I? What am I? What? And I think the beauty of Shelley is, is she was so open that she could accept everyone and not, you know, I don't think she really put herself in that kind of box.

Janine Fleischman (31:04)

She was also smart because she was curious, right?

Cynthia Geary (31:08)

It is very curious. And, you know, like, it's. When Chris is drawing this, it's all great and wonderful, and, you know, and I really think it wasn't about, you know, making people think she's. One way or another. She wasn't worried about what people thought.

Rob Morrow (31:32)

You know, again, it's like how each of us respond to the projects of each other in each character. How Shelley embraces it and how Joel wrestles with it, and how ultimately Maurice is supportive, but doesn't know exactly what he's supporting. And then when Chris gives up, he kind of comes. You know, Jeanine talks a lot about the small town of it, you know, and how the unity that happens in a town that seems to be lost in the bigger. The way we exist now. And I just love watching how we all. And it doesn't. It's not treacly. It's like we're there for each other because we want each other's character to become themselves, their full selves. You know, the way Holling talks to Maggie at the bar, I love when Maggie's drunk.

Cynthia Geary (32:28)

Yeah.

Rob Morrow (32:30)

It's a really interesting dynamic to the show.

Cynthia Geary (32:34)

Yeah. Especially today, Rob. I mean, I feel like in the polarized world that we live in, the world of Sicily was just like a utopia, because every. You know, we all come from these different perspectives. I mean, Rob, in the show, you were talking about how I'm a Republican and, you know, and no one. No one in, you know, Upper east side, New York or wherever you were from is a Republican. And I don't know, it just. I think the beauty of Cicely is that. Is that we all accepted each other, you know, and accepted our differences.

Rob Morrow (33:17)

Right. And it's ironic, you know, and it's the opposite. Like, I'm a Democrat and Janine's a Republican, and she her character was a Democrat. But by the way, this is the second time that the show mentions Donald Trump, which I find fascinating.

Cynthia Geary (33:33)

Noticed that.

Rob Morrow (33:35)

There'S a moment.

Cynthia Geary (33:36)

There's a moment Rob mentions him.

Rob Morrow (33:38)

Yeah. Something about. Yeah.

Janine Fleischman (33:41)

I. I would call myself actually an independent. I kind of like being thought of as an independent thinker.

Rob Morrow (33:46)

I'm sorry.

Janine Fleischman (33:47)

No, no. But I just don't like to get pigeonholed into a party system. Because in the irony is, if. If you think about that particular party system, there's so many aspects of my life where I don't fit into that party system at all, which is ironic. But I love independent thinking. I wish more of us in America were. I think the party system is kind of dividing. But anywho, I think it's funny when you walk into talk with. With Cynthia, with. With Shelley and. And Holling and. And Maurice, and they're like, oh, poor Maggie, our house burned down. And I caught this. Did you. Did y' all catch this, Fleischman? You're like, yeah, yeah. Anyway, do you know who Larry Coe is? It was that one show where Fleischman had. He just wasn't even paying any attention to what happened to Matt.

Rob Morrow (34:34)

So my guess is, I don't know if you remember, because I don't even know if I was there. But they must have built a frame on an empty lot and burnt it. Right. Because then they didn't burn down a whole house. But it was very authentic looking.

Janine Fleischman (34:48)

But maybe they did. Well, how did. It was burning. When I went there, it was burning.

Rob Morrow (34:52)

Right. But I don't. I can't. I don't think it was a full hot. It was just the frame and maybe some. Some veneer or something.

Janine Fleischman (34:59)

But you think that was the same spot where we're. Corbett and I filmed?

Rob Morrow (35:02)

No, I think it was different.

Janine Fleischman (35:04)

That wasn't exactly where her house was. Yeah, her house.

Rob Morrow (35:06)

Yeah. And I also think where they had the. The. The. The burnt out husk of it was somewhere else because they. And they built that. But it was a great set. You know, when you were wandering around trying to find things and. And he find the melted diorama.

Janine Fleischman (35:22)

Yeah, the melted.

Rob Morrow (35:23)

Oh, the.

Janine Fleischman (35:23)

The blob. Every man of every date is now the one big blob.

Rob Morrow (35:27)

Yeah. And Chris wants it.

Janine Fleischman (35:31)

Did you notice I was kind of smil. Like that little moment where I had a little humor, like, because I remember looking at. Very innocently going, you want to fling the blob? You know, when you cut to my face, there's like a little tiny smile.

Rob Morrow (35:42)

There.

Janine Fleischman (35:43)

And I thought, oh, I was probably getting a kick out of that. Like, you want to fling my blob. Oh, but. But that set was amazing.

Rob Morrow (35:50)

Yeah, Beautiful. Once again, Woody Crocker. Yeah. I'm sure it was not easy to build that because it looked real. You know, they. So they. They obviously had to take things and burn them and. But they couldn't burn a whole house. I know that.

Janine Fleischman (36:03)

Yeah, it was late at night when we did. It was really late at night, very cold, very dark. And they had the firemen there all around. I very. And I love it when I take my mom. You burned it. I'm like, oh, Mom, I have tears, mom, you're alive. You're alive. This is so life, right? You're alive, Mom. You're alive. And she's like, oh, it's my fault. No, it's not your fault, Mom. Yes, it is. No, it's not. Well, I left the towel and then I started shaking her. You mean you ruined my house? It's like one minute, you know, it's like when I get you just. It's just that. That juxtaposition of your feelings, like, is my mom alive? And then she's like, you burned out my house.

Rob Morrow (36:37)

But it's such an interesting thing, you know, like so many people. Because we had the fires last year, and every last night I was at a party, I mean, you know, had two separate conversations about people who lost their home, you know, and lost everything they had. And when. When we were going, you know, we had to evacuate and we were. We ended up down in Palm Springs for a couple weeks. And every night we'd go to bed and one of us would play philosopher about what does it mean if we wake up tomorrow and everything we own is gone? You know, I mean, that's such a. But, like, I think the point of the show ultimately is that that that act of destruction creates the potential for creativity, you know, for something to creation.

Cynthia Geary (37:20)

Yeah.

Rob Morrow (37:20)

Yeah. For the growth to emerge.

Janine Fleischman (37:22)

It's always through the darkest times that we learn the most that, you know, we stair step to enlightenment and all that. If you can just swim through it, the abyss.

Rob Morrow (37:32)

That's the thing. And that's. And again. And that's what the show offers, you know, in subtle ways and. And in kind of macro ways, you know, this. This notion of hope, you know, that you can come through these. These difficulties of life and find your way, you know, and. And that. That I, as an audience person, aside from being a. I love that. I mean, I love that that's what we put out in the world. And, and by the way, more and more I keep get running into 20, 20 year olds that are watching the show or people tell me about their kids are watching it, which is, it's cool that, and not just because. For the ego. Ego of it, but because there's good, there's. There's a lot of messaging, you know, unconscious and conscious messaging in Northern Exposure that gets out there. And I think the more of that we have in the world, the better we are.

Janine Fleischman (38:25)

I agree with that. And I love that line of Maggie's though mother, if I wanted my house to burn down, I should have. I would have burned down my house. It was like, you come and you burn down my house. How do you think this fits in with the Larry Ko storyline though? Because it doesn't quite puzzle piece, but it does in a way from my.

Cynthia Geary (38:47)

Perspective just watching it and having totally forgotten that storyline. No offense, Rob, but just, just 30 years later, I forgot the whole Larry Ko part of that story. And I thought it was really interesting because here's a guy who's again, he's built this life and everyone knows him as this thing and he's famous for this thing. And that life blew up. It's like your house, I mean, it's gone. It's. It's blown up. And he's created something new. And here he is going, I'm happy. I'm this person. I'm doing what I want. And Rob is trying to put him back there to be the old person. I mean, he's like, but you're Larry Ko. You're Larry Ko. You're the golfer. And he's like, that's not who I want to be now.

Rob Morrow (39:44)

And it's also interesting. I'm just thinking about how he's a chimney sweep.

Janine Fleischman (39:48)

I was just thinking that I was waiting for Cynthia to stop. I was just thinking like, think about the Bernie and he's a chimney sweep and Rob's.

Cynthia Geary (39:55)

And I know that Rob is just trying to help him let go so that he can have closure and let go. But I think it does. It meshes with all the other storylines. I mean, the chimney sweep and blowing up his life. And now it's interesting how he deals with it. He runs away from it sometimes the.

Rob Morrow (40:16)

Stories are not cohesive thematically and I forgot that. I always thought they were. But as we go through them and we talked to the writers sometimes they were like, you know, we just needed a C storyline and we stuck it in there and. And then you know, we might project on some kind of thematic, you know, consistency, but often they, they're just tacked on there, which is. Which is amazing that it still works.

Janine Fleischman (40:49)

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Janine Fleischman (40:57)

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Janine Fleischman (41:54)

Have either of you ever had a moment where you completely wanted to reinvent yourself? Because I did all the time. Right before Northern Exposure this morning when I had. Yeah, right when. When I had eight. Well, no, but I literally was going to go do it. I had $8 left in my name before Northern Exposure. And I was so depressed and nothing was working in my life. I took my little tiny poodle and I got in a cab to go to LaGuardia Airport to catch a flight to Texas. Not to go home to my family, but to go to where my father was born, Athens, Texas. Don't ask me why. And I was going to change my. And become a waitress at this. At a cafe in Athens. And I guess maybe this part of the symbolism of that is my father's grandfather. So my great grandfather had a cafe there, Paul's Cafe in Athens, Texas. But I was going to literally do a Larry Ko. I was going to move to Texas, Athens, Texas, which is far east Texas, and become a waitress in a little small cafe. And if I'm thinking about it, it's exactly what Larry Ko was doing. And I ended up getting lost on the Brooklyn Queen Expressway and saw Manhattan over there. And I just turned back to face my life. Life, which good thing I did or I wouldn't. I got lost and I was like, screaming. My poodle was licking my tears off my face. My contacts were blurry, and I'm like, I guess I'll go back to the city, because I kind of see it over there, you know, I was lost, but it was. I almost had a Larry KO Moment. Have y' all had any moments like that?

Cynthia Geary (43:16)

I remember. So I went to Ole Miss, University of Mississippi, and my junior year, and I, I was a music major. I sing and, and I always wanted to try acting. I'd never really tried it. I'd been in musicals, but not acting, and I wasn't in the drama program, and my brother was in grad school in Los Angeles. And so I talked my parents into letting me go to summer school at ucla. And with the secret notion of not telling anybody that I wanted to take acting classes. So I went to UCLA for the summer, and From Mississippi. Growing up, you know, I call it growing up in my bubble with, you know, most of everyone I was around was, you know, what they believed was the same. They were Republican and Christian. And so I, I went to the west coast and was immediately, you know, I was exposed to just so many different people and different ideas and new things and.

Rob Morrow (44:31)

Did you just show up or did you have a place to, like, how did you.

Cynthia Geary (44:34)

Oh, no, I went to school at ucla, and I got, I actually recruited some friends from Mississippi, and they came with me for the summer, and then they went back and I went to school, and we lived in a, in an apartment, you know, on. Near the UCLA campus in Westwood. But at the end of the summer, I had been studying acting, and I called my parents and I said, I'm not coming home. I'm staying. I'm going to be an actress. And my mother said, what? And I said, well, what did you think? I'm a vocal performance major. I mean, I want to perform. It's kind of. And she said, well, I thought you'd just be the church choir. You'd graduate, get married, and be the church choir director like me.

Rob Morrow (45:24)

Sounds like Maggie's mother.

Cynthia Geary (45:26)

Exactly, exactly. And I have to. Let me please say this. My parents have been so incredibly amazing and supportive of me. So I say that with a laugh, because we all laugh about it now. But it was, it's interesting because, you know, I inside knew that I needed something different, that I was not gonna be what was, you know, what they expected.

Rob Morrow (46:01)

I made two attempts to reinvent myself, one when I was 16. The second one I succeeded, but I was, was. I wanted to act, I think, and my dad wouldn't let me. I was living with him in Florida. And I, I, I said, I'm, I'm, I'm Lee. I'm running away. And, and I, I, I had all My. Whatever I had in a box. I didn't even have a suitcase. I had a box. And he can't.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (46:26)

He.

Rob Morrow (46:26)

I was. I called the taxi and I had sold this bicycle that I had and I called a taxi and he came home when I was waiting for the taxi and I was sitting there at 16 with my box, and he was like, leaving. He was like, yeah, okay, like. And he just didn't believe me. I went to the airport, I got on a plane. I had to wait like 10 hours for a cheap plane to Boston because my sister was at the University of Plymouth College at University of New Hampshire. I hitchhiked from Boston to New Hampshire in the winter. Right. With my box. Yeah. And I get there and I. I was going to go to LA to become a stuntman. That was my plan. I had looked up in some. Back of some magazine, you know, some stupid magazine, know, come become to Hollywood and become a stuntman. And I was going to be. I was like, I'm a kid, so they probably don't have a lot of kids, stunt mans. And I was going and I spent a week with. And then, you know, my father got the call and he was like, what? You're. Where? Like, you know, and I was in New Hampshire and eventually they talked me down and sent me back. But eventually, a year later, I, I did the same thing and, and made it to New York. And I think a lot of us have to. But, but, but I guess to your point, Janine, it's the times where you wanted to. That you didn't, you know, but I've often thought about. I think it's a great fantasy to reinvent yourself, you know, to start a new, you know, which is, you know, sometimes hoisted upon us when, when, when events. You know, there's a lot of people in LA right now that are hurting because of the, the, you know, the industry compression and, and after the strikes and Covid and the fire, and a lot of people are. You know, my sister has a podcast, it's called Pivot, you know, and it's about people pivoting into other, you know, directions in their life.

Janine Fleischman (48:21)

Well, I've. I've reinvented myself a lot with my foundation and my radio shows and things of that nature. And there's a part of it, I'm a little bit Larry Cokes. I love living on my ranch in the middle of nowhere. You know, people come here like, why do you live. Why do you live all out here all by yourself? I'm like, well, I don't know. I guess I just kind of like it, you know, so there's that juxtaposition of being such a public person and then living in the middle of nowhere. But I do think we all have those moments where it's. It's. Some of us come back and say, okay, I'm going to turn back around and face it. Maybe I really don't need to be doing this. And some of us just want to move. And it was kind of cool the way he just wanted to go to Greenland.

Cynthia Geary (48:58)

He.

Janine Fleischman (48:58)

You know, he blew it. You know, Fleischman blew it for him. He couldn't be in Alaska anymore right now. He's gonna go to Greenland. Kind of a cool whole storyline in itself. And I like the way his hair was always a mess and a lot of messy hair.

Rob Morrow (49:10)

In this episode, you and Corbett and Larry co. Each of the main stories had messy hair. But, you know. You know, that's probably a coincidence. And, you know, with Corbett, he just probably. His hair was long, you know, that's all. He just went through the. He went through phases with his hair. Hair. They should just do a. A compilation of all his hair.

Janine Fleischman (49:29)

But. But I love it when he takes those crosses. My mother's scared of him. Like, there's. Like, there's a man in the back of your car. And you see Maggie's face. Like, she doesn't really want to introduce Chris to her mother just because, you know, of her more embarrassment of her mother than of Chris. So she wasn't embarrassed of Chris. But then the way he's kind of carrying that big beam. And we all talked about back then, he looked like Jesus.

Rob Morrow (49:47)

Totally. And we got a shout out to Rob Thompson again because he did such a nice job with this. There were just so many touches from the grand finale trebuchet to. To the little subtle moments with you and your mom. I thought he did just a. Just a really, really nice job.

Janine Fleischman (50:08)

I was thinking about that at the. He did Rob Thompson's amazing. And at the. That last scene where she forgives her mother. You know, that scene could. Could have been played so many different ways. You know, it could have been without acceptance. It could have been without that moment where she just goes, all right. And I seem to remember, you know, it was what, 30 years ago? But, you know, that Rob. Rob and I really probably talked about that. Like, what's the direction? What direction do we want to take this scene? And that's where directors can have such a nuance with performances.

Cynthia Geary (50:38)

Did he direct you? He. What did he. Rob Thompson did He. What did he.

Janine Fleischman (50:44)

I just seem to remember, and of course it's fuzzy and foggy, but that we had a conversation about the direction that scene could go because. And that scene could have gone. She remained sobby, unresolved, angry. And in that scene, she actually looked at her mother and kind of accepted her and forgave her. And I think he was guiding me toward that direction.

Rob Morrow (51:06)

Yeah. Because it gives it an arc. Otherwise it wouldn't have been. What would have been the point, you know, of the story.

Janine Fleischman (51:13)

But it wasn't written that way.

Rob Morrow (51:15)

Oh, really?

Janine Fleischman (51:16)

Well, I mean, it's not really written that she forgives her. She does. She does kind of say, yeah, well, mom, me too. Which I guess, you know, so. But. So it was kind of a combination of the. It was maybe subtly, but the direction that Rob guided me in helped. And that's. That's the great thing about having a wonderful director with, you know, directors that they're directors that come out of film school that just are great technically. We talked about this a lot. Remember that? On the set. But they don't know how to work with actors. And so when you get a director that can work technically with a camera and all the things, and that also with actors, that's rare.

Cynthia Geary (51:49)

Well, I think, you know, television, as you guys know, and I mean, it's so different when a director just comes in to a show that's been successful and has been going for several years, and a lot of times they. That's what would happen is we'd have a director come in and, you know, we've been playing these characters for 2, 3 years by this point. But Rob was a producer, and he was there and he was with us the whole time. So I think that made a difference as well, because he's got the respect of the crew and the cast, and he's also. He knows the characters intimately. He knows how we shoot. He knows the DP really well. And I think there's a difference when. And Rob, you can probably speak to this as. Because you're a director, when you just come in for. To direct one episode of a show, I would assume that you're not going to be telling everybody what to do and telling the DP what to do, because, you know, they're looking at you.

Rob Morrow (52:50)

Going, yeah, we know it's a real trial by fire. You have to. It's a tricky thing to assert authority over an already established, you know, entity and. And do it in a way that people trust you. But I, you know, it's tricky and and sometimes people test you and sometimes they don't. Whatever. You know, it's a tricky job to be an actor on a long running TV series. And so sometimes actors are just in shitty moods and they don't want to listen to some new person telling them what to do, you know, even if, you know, they just don't want to have to deal with it because they know what to do. And so, so it's a fine line. But I do think, to your point, it's great when someone is there consistently and you can tell, I think when you look at the shows, the directors that they've been around a couple episodes at least, because they know all of our idiosyncrasies that we have the way we each as individual approach the work. And so, so there's a shorthand because they, and they know, you know, they know you're going to get there. You just have to go through whatever your thing is. And, you know, I think by this point Rob knew it. And the proof is in the pudding. That and that. And there was something, you know, you know, there's. If you remember that I have this shot in my book, Northern Exposures, from the day we shot the Trebuchet. And it's a shot of all of us sitting in chair.

Janine Fleischman (54:20)

I love that shot. I have it framed in my head house.

Rob Morrow (54:22)

It's a great, it's a great. It captures this moment of, you know, all of us together as one and, and yet individuals, you know, and then somehow it feels like when I'm thinking about what Rob did was just to take all of this and make it a unit. And he did that so well.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (54:38)

Yeah.

Janine Fleischman (54:39)

And Cynthia, you make a really good point. Because when we have a new director come in and we've been around for so long, you automatically sort of have a little bit of a wall up. Like, can I trust this person and can I trust the direction where he's taking my character? Because we all know if we go that direction, you know, it's going to end up on the screen and they're going to see it. And you know, so we always were always very protective. So, you know, not. There's just a wall that has to be sort of permeated a bit. But you're, you were so right on about Rob. We trusted him and he used to. And we felt comfortable with him. And you could see it, I think, in the ease of the performances. He used to always say to me, Janine, you get going by like the third take, you know, he's like the Third, fourth, fifth take. You're golden.

Cynthia Geary (55:20)

Well, I felt like that about a lot of our. You know, like, Mike Fresco was one of my favorite directors who was also one of our producers, because, yeah, there's such a. You just feel so comfortable and open and honest, and, you know, that he's got your back, and. Which, I mean, not to say that. That there was, I think, for me, anybody who came in, the new directors, there's always something to learn, and you could take it from, like, oh, maybe I never thought of it that way, but I do think that I felt the same as far as some of my performances that I was most proud of were with directors that. That I worked with before and knew or producers. And, you know.

Rob Morrow (56:13)

Well, on that note, I think I hate to do. I feel like we could talk for hours. But, Cynthia, it just means we'll have to bring you back yet again.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (56:20)

Yes.

Janine Fleischman (56:20)

Because you have so many cool episodes coming up.

Cynthia Geary (56:22)

Maybe you're gonna bring me back and it's actually gonna be an episode that I do something on.

Rob Morrow (56:26)

We will do that. We will make sure. I promise you, next time you come back, it will be for something that is a big episode for you.

Cynthia Geary (56:33)

Yeah.

Janine Fleischman (56:33)

Like when you get married or have a baby or you sing the entire episode.

Cynthia Geary (56:38)

It's much more fun and easier for me to talk about you guys and your amazing, brilliant performances and to watch them than to talk about myself. So we're good.

Janine Fleischman (56:49)

Cynthia still lives in the Pacific Northwest. You're gonna go on the cool, brisk hike, aren't you? What is it? Let me guess. It's 30 and raining. Is it 30 and raining?

Rob Morrow (56:58)

No.

Cynthia Geary (56:59)

Well, no, I'm looking outside. It's not raining yet, so I think we're like 40.

Janine Fleischman (57:05)

40, 40 degrees. 42.

Rob Morrow (57:09)

Every day. Every day, I would drive to work on Northern Exposure, and it would be raining. And. And because I came from New York, where it was, you know, it didn't rain a lot, you know, I would say to myself, oh, well, tomorrow will be sunny. And every day it would be raining.

Janine Fleischman (57:22)

And I rode my horse with, like, four layers on.

Rob Morrow (57:25)

If you're out there in the audience, you know that you can watch us on YouTube or listen to us wherever you. You get your podcast.

Janine Fleischman (57:32)

Yeah. And subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. Get notices and whatnot and spread the word. So. Well, Rob, always great to see you again. Cynthia, you're amazing. I love you dearly. It's great. Love you guys. Fun. So much fun. So that we're wrapping today. We'll see you again next week. And we're signing off from o' Connell and Fleischman.

Rob Morrow (57:53)

Actually, I think it should be Fleischman o'.

Janine Fleischman (57:54)

Connell. In your dreams, Fleischman.

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Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen.

Cynthia Geary (58:05)

Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (58:08)

And Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

Narrator/Announcer (58:22)

Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller Ready for Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories. And I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it. So I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up up where he left off and to my delight he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love, pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine, Lightspeed on Spec, and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me.