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Northern Disclosure
S3E14: “Democracy in America” with Ari Melber
01:02:33
Ari Melber joins Rob Morrow and Janine Turner to discuss “Democracy in America”’s rich themes of democracy, the peaceful transfer of power, and why civil discourse matters more than ever.
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- [00:01]
Jeanine
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- [01:05]
Hello everyone. Welcome to Northern Disclosure, where my oh so handsome co star Rob Morrow and I walk through episode by episode of Northern Exposure. And by the way, you can watch Northern disclosure on YouTube or you can listen anywhere you listen to and also hit that subscribe button. It's always a good thing to do. And you can watch the shows on Amazon prime, which so many people in America are doing now. So today we're gonna be talking about a very poignant show, Democracy in America, Northern Exposure, Sicily, Alaska style. So, hello, Rob. And by the way, I think it was like Season 3, Episode 14. It was directed by Michael Cattleman, whom we've had on the show and we adore, and written by Jeff Melv, who we've also had on the show and we adore. So it's a fabulous episode. Story driven, I think. What do you think, Rob? Hi.
- [02:00]
Rob Morrow
I agree. Jeanine, first of all, as always, you look lovely. And I just want to check in. How's your mom doing?
- [02:07]
Jeanine
Oh, thank you. You know, every day's a new day. One day I think, okay, this is going to be it. This is it. And it's so terrifying. And you try to like, I try to pump her up, like, have a little Gatorade, have a little water, have a little Gatorade, have a little insure. And then the next day she's like, hi, how you doing? She's perfectly fin.
- [02:26]
Rob Morrow
Well, she's lucky to have you. And you're, you're so dedicated to her and I, we wish her the best. So this show, this show, Democracy in America. I'll give you the quick IMDb synopsis. When a new candidate signs up for the upcoming mayor election, Mariel election in Sicily, this triggers a large amount of activity among the residents. It's not the Greatest synopsis. But there's something really interesting about this show. I found it very unusual. It wasn't a typical Northern Exposure show. It was very political, although not pedantic, but it dove fairly deep for a network TV show into the mechanisms of democracy. And did it, I think, in a really cogent and informative and entertaining way. You know.
- [03:17]
Jeanine
It did, it did. I like the way it was nonpartisan. You know, I have my foundation constituting America, and it's nonpartisan and it focuses on the Constitution and the, the, the Declaration of Independence, things of that nature. But we never talk politics ever, you know, because the Constitution, when it was written, they didn't even have the political parties yet. And it's irrelevant. I mean, the Constitution's for everybody and the Declaration of Independence is for everybody. And I like the way the show kept that balance.
- [03:48]
And how I think. And it exhibited, in my opinion, the greatest aspect of America, which is the trans. Peaceful transfer of power.
- [03:58]
Rob Morrow
I'm right there with you. I agree. That was really, you know, and, and also thematically, it was about how democracies, you know, main fuel currency is, is this is. Is dissatisfaction with what. What's going on. So that, that it, it, it's, you know, it says. There's a line where someone says, it's not a spectator sport. You know, we have to engage. And, and I think that's a. An interesting message from the show.
- [04:25]
Jeanine
Can I just say a moment I loved? Can I say a moment I love?
- [04:28]
Rob Morrow
Yes, of course.
- [04:29]
Jeanine
The town halls. You know, everyone who listens know how much y' all know how much I love the town halls. I just think they're the greatest thing in the world. And I've been to one actually up here when they were going to put a freeway up here in my country rule. They're going to put a freeway in. And we all got there and stood up and said, don't put the freeway in.
- [04:45]
Ari Melber
You know what I mean?
- [04:46]
Jeanine
It's the greatest part of America. But the one Towns hall person stood up looking really raggedy, you know, like he lives in the middle of nowhere. And he goes, do you think this is a Jeffersonian take on democracy or a Hamilton. Hamiltonian take on democracy? I love that. And Peg was like, what kind of question is that?
- [05:09]
Rob Morrow
Yeah.
- [05:11]
I love when, you know, it's so interesting, different, you know, viewpoints people have. And when they surprise you with their knowledge or their insights, it's always, it's always fun. So we have a great guest particularly apropos to this show.
- [05:29]
He's he is. He started as a lawyer. He was a First amendment lawyer from 2009 to 2013. And then he was. He. He was. He wrote pieces for.
- [05:42]
Outlets such as the Nation, the Atlantic, Reuters, Politico, which led to msnbc, where he served as a guest host for a while and then was named their chief legal consultant before being giving his show. I'm a fan. I'm a huge fan. I learn a lot every time I listen to him and watch him. And he's cool, he's smart, he's insightful, he's a great guy.
- [06:05]
His unique use of hip hop lyrics led Vanity Fair to dub him the secret fourth Beastie Boy. I love that. And in 2024, his show hit 1.4 billion total views online. We have with us today the great Ari Melber, whose show is the beat on MSNBC, which is on 6pm on Eastern Time. Please welcome Ari Melber.
- [06:32]
Ari Melber
Hi, everyone.
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Rob Morrow
Hey, Ari.
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Jeanine
Hello, Ari.
- [06:36]
Ari Melber
How you doing? Happy to join you guys.
- [06:38]
Rob Morrow
Yeah, well, you're so. We know you're so busy and so we're grateful for you to come. And I'll just start with you have. The reason I asked you to come or that Janine and I asked you to come was because you have a unique kind of connection to the show, which I'll let you tell us about.
- [06:56]
Ari Melber
We have breaking news that I've never shared in public. So I love this. A fun little thing for people who care about any of these worlds is I dabbled in theater as a kid. I liked that artistic outlet and my parents let me do plays and such, and then I would try to go and audition for things and send my info in. They didn't want me to have an agent or anything like that. So I wasn't like stage parents running around la, but in the Pacific Northwest corridor, which you guys know so much about. That led to me getting an audition for Northern Exposure. And I remember because my parents had to take me and there was a callback or whatever. So I was down the last couple kids and I was going to play some, I believe, version of you, which I don't know if people look now can we see any resemblance, depending on if folks are listening or watching a video and made that final round but didn't get the part, which is, I think, a common experience to anyone around that biz. But I almost tried to play you or at least auditioned as you, and now we're letting that story out to the world.
- [08:05]
Rob Morrow
I love that we're going to have to put up the Chiron Breaking news. You know, the show was called Goodbye to All that. And it was the. It was episode one of season two in 1991, which will put you based on the Internet based around 11. Yeah. And you were living in Seattle.
- [08:22]
Ari Melber
Seattle. Raised. Yep. Yes. I felt for the, for such a show that was broadly Pacific Northwest. We are, we already watched it. We were aware of it, of course, and I'm sure it was popular many places. But I think around Seattle people loved it and loved the nature and a lot of the themes.
- [08:39]
Jeanine
11 years old in 1991 is making me feel old.
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Ari Melber
Well, it doesn't matter how you feel since you don't look old. So we, you know, ride that.
- [08:48]
Jeanine
Okay, thank you. It's the magic of my bead light here.
- [08:53]
Rob Morrow
It was a great episode that you auditioned for. I have a kind of a nervous breakdown and I go to the movie theater and the local one screen theater that we have and I start watching a movie and I fall asleep and when I wake up, everyone's gone. And on the screen comes up various people from my life. And it was the younger version of myself that you were auditioning for. Talking to me a la Woody Allen's movie, the Purple Rose of Cairo from the screen, telling me that if I didn't get my shit together, you know, I was gonna have a full on break that nervous breakdown by the time I was 40. It was a, it was a fun part, but. But I guess you had the realities of showbiz hit you right then and there.
- [09:37]
Ari Melber
So, you know, it's funny because it was, I was so young and it was like any other hobby. I mean, some kids into sports, into theater, you're not, you're a kid, you're not thinking that much about it. I obviously had taken a little extra step of extra plays. I was in some like local professional theater with adults where I would be the kid. And then by high school, I moved on to other things, got busy with other things, didn't think about it a lot, and then went on to get a law degree in what you mentioned. And then only after that in doing tv do people say, oh, is it like some link? But life's not that linear. So I never thought of it, except yes, there's a presentation aspect of both, so maybe it's full circle to some degree. But at the time it was just one more hobby. And I think in general there's a reason why sports and the arts are great for kids. You don't have to go be NFL or be a professional actor. I think for a 10 year old to step outside of themselves. And what is often the social pressure of being kid. Right. Theater gives you, as you both know so well, a whole different outlet and understanding of what you can do.
- [10:44]
Even though it's not you. I think done in a healthy way. That's great for development because you say, oh, I could be loud or I could pretend to be this, even though that's not the only part of me.
- [10:54]
Rob Morrow
You know, But I definitely think that that early desire informs your current kind of disposition on the show. Like, you know, you're so personable. And not only are you personable, you really know the camera, the way you work the camera, you know, you know what's going on in terms of what you're presenting, in terms of your energy, in terms of your physicality. So I think that, that there is definitely a connection for sure. But. But you're doing what you were meant to do, that's for sure.
- [11:22]
Jeanine
My daughter's a lawyer, so she just graduated from law school. She's doing a federal clerkship now and they're going to head to D.C. soon. But what was your specialty in law?
- [11:36]
Ari Melber
Well, congrats to your daughter. Those clerkships are actually very hard to get, as you probably know, but not everyone does. That's cool. I focused on First Amendment and free speech law. I worked for Floyd Abrams, who was a great mentor. I actually saw him this week at a New Yorker event in the city and he won the Pentagon Papers case against Nixon and a lot of other big First Amendment cases. So I got to learn from him.
- [12:01]
Jeanine
Well, freedom of speech is certainly something that we treasure in this country, right? The First Amendment rights. I have a foundation constituting America and it's nonpartisan. But that First Amendment is the tool. Those are the tools in the toolbox for exercising democracy, for using all those tools. Freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of assembly, all those things that we treasure. So that's really cool that that was your focus and that you can now apply that to another sort of theatrical forum. Though it's based and rooted in information and the news, so to speak. But that, that's really cool and I'm glad you could be on for the show because I, I really love the way the show talks about. Just. Rob and I were talking earlier about the aspects of democracy and it's funny because people get really confused about democracy in a republic. You know, it's like our government is a republic. We're electing somebody to show up for us. But it's a democracy and there's Respect that we're all showing up to vote like they did in Greece. I'm currently reading a book on Socrates and, you know, the. The elements of Greece. But it's. It's something to watch the show and. And just to have the music playing and the. The sense of patriotism and the respect that. It's just a great thing that. That we can show up in a town hall and speak our minds and have that First Amendment right and then show up to vote. And. And then. And then, as I was saying to Rob, that we. We accept the peaceful transfer of power. And I loved the music. I was talking to Martin, Bruce Lee, our music coordinator, and he said there were boys choirs because I kept hearing a boys choir. What did he tell me? He said, let me go find Martin. He said it was the America the Beautiful was by the American Boys choir.
- [13:52]
Rob Morrow
Ari, were you. Were you able to watch the show recently?
- [13:56]
Ari Melber
Yeah, I actually last night was. Watched some of it. You know the scene where you two are, like, having the fight about trading, oh, well, this is what your politics are, or this is what socialized medicine and all that. And I was watching, thinking how, you know, that was old school, but that's like a lot of the Internet today, like, where people are. They're just sort of popping off, and at a certain point, the conversation has melted into something else, right? An exchange of ammo or talking points or whatever we call it. And it was funny because it was like, okay, that was a different era. Now people do that with strangers or they do it. Sometimes talking to people is great, and other times you find it devolves. You know, I always think about that with politics because I deal with it in my life of, like, what is the purpose of the conversation? And so people say, oh, Thanksgiving dinner. It's hard to talk to the other side sometimes. And they don't. They'd rather avoid it. And I think it really just depends on your purpose, because if both people are trying to convert each other or insult each other or undermine each other's belief systems, then it doesn't go very far, you know, and that's seeing your characters have other tensions anyway. But sometimes, and I've had this. And as a journalist, you try to do this where you go, oh, wow, here's. You know, we could look at the spectrum of views in this country right now, or you could look at it in the world. You could sit down with someone in Iran and try to understand their worldview on any number of things. It might be extremely different, but if the Purpose is, well, we both are going to try to have a respectful, civil dialogue, then. That's something. And if even one party isn't, in my experience, then you're cooked. You're not. You're not going to get very far in that exchange.
- [15:36]
Rob Morrow
It's interesting, too, the view. Like Joel, I'm the complete. I'm more like Maggie, actually. Almost everything that Maggie said in this episode I agreed with, including the stuff about aesthetics and light and color and, you know. You know, Joel's a, you know, died in the world Republican. Al d'. Amato, you know, he worked for Al d'. Amato and so it's interesting hearing those words out of my mouth, things like, you know, do you know how many Republicans live on the Upper west side?
- [16:06]
Jeanine
I was just gonna say that. Yeah.
- [16:09]
You'Re looking at him. I'm the only one.
- [16:12]
Rob Morrow
Yeah. And he goes. And he's so hard on you, Jeanine. Like, he's so. What I wrote down, he wrote, like, he says, I'm sure you spent your summers at the Grosse Pointe Country Club discussing minimum wa. Wage.
- [16:23]
Jeanine
Yeah, that's the irony. She was raised as this kind of Gross Point debutante, and then she leaves everything to cut her hair off and fly a plane and be the landlord and fix her own plumbing and chop her own wood and kill her own deer. I mean, that's the great thing about America. We can go. People who immigrate here can reinvent themselves, and those of us that even live here can reinvent ourselves if we want to. But, yeah, that. That was a. That was a lot of fun. The. The dichotomy and the repartee. But, you know what's cool about it, though? And we, at my foundation, we have a How to have a Civil Civic Conversation program that I created, and we go into the classrooms and teach them how to have a civil civic conversation on something about which people greatly disagree, because we're missing that, you know, in the country. And we interviewed these. These winners of our contest, and one of them said the most interesting thing. She says, are you listening to hear what the other person is saying, or are you listening to respond?
- [17:20]
Rob Morrow
Right, right.
- [17:21]
Ari Melber
Yeah. And, I mean, the era we're. The era we're in now is there's more ways to express yourself. And that can be wonderful, or it can be completely dizzying with socials, podcasts, everything else. And, you know, not to get too deep, but the way your characters engaged the politics, it was almost Freudian, like, oh, your political choice or marketing of it is some rebellion against your parental authority figures, and that's how you're defining yourselves. And then today, with politics being so front and center to people for so many reasons, and I cover it in the news every night, you also have a lot more people whose identity is politics, but as soon as it's not moral or expressive but becomes like, another jacket, like, I was like, oh, I got this Patagonia last week. And I was like, of course I'm going to rock my Patagonia fleece for my Northern Exposure disclosure interview. I would call that pretty harmless. I've been wearing fleece my whole life, so that's my Seattle. But when we all start wearing our political jerseys about everything, it then gets very tied up in your presentation and your vanity. And I think one of the problems with that is that makes it harder to listen and change minds, right? It makes it harder because it can't be that we're right about everything all the time. And so I do think that keying off how the characters were exploring, oh, well, this is your way of saying something about yourself. And we all want to say certain things because we want to develop and grow and be seen. I think that's fine. But other times it becomes like, oh, if you're talking to someone and this is how you define your value or your morality, then it becomes very hard to say, I might have gotten that wrong. And I could pick a specific example and say, here's three programs to help poorer countries. There's three types of foreign aid, and one of them didn't work because they did it. They spent the money, and it turns out it got siphoned off to corruption. That happens a lot abroad. Or it didn't reach the intended participant. Now we're not having a conversation about morality. Oh, I care more about that poor country than you. Now we're having a conversation about what works or not. But if you're so invested in saying, well, I support program one because I'm a good person, I care about these people, fine, cool. But now it's, like, about you, and I think in the west and what you might call, whatever the expressive privilege, like, lives some people lead, it becomes more about them than the actual substance.
- [19:50]
Rob Morrow
Very true. And the Internet has allowed for a kind of vitriol that we've never had, that just like, you know, I mean, without. I don't want to get too political, but, you know, you know, Janine, did you know that Elaine, who played Marilyn, my, you know, my. My assistant on the show, she was detained on Thanksgiving Day by Ice at a bus stop. And she. She was on her way to her Thanksgiving, you know, dinner, and she got detained and she pulled out her reservation id, which I guess is all she had. I don't know if she ever learned to drive, but she had her. She had. All she had was a reservation id, and they said it was fake. And they held her up for a long time and they gave her a hard time. And I heard about it because the Seattle Times did a piece and someone forwarded to me and I just put out how tragic and sad that was that someone like her would have her Thanksgiving disrupted. And the things that I got back just for saying that, I didn't even get into it, whether it was right or whether ICE was wrong or right. I just said that it was tragic that this poor girl had to go through this. And I got the people calling me a pedophile, like all this stuff.
- [20:58]
Jeanine
Yeah, this is. Well, that was that. This was that. This Thanksgiving.
- [21:01]
Rob Morrow
Just this Thanksgiving. Yeah.
- [21:03]
Jeanine
Well, you know that that's horrible. And I think that. But what happens with texting? Sometimes I wish I could never text again. Right. I know texting has gotten us all in trouble at one point or another. And, you know, it's like, could I just go back to a landline, I wonder. But then you do so much business via texting. And it's the same thing with social media. Nobody has to show to have that face to face hard conversation. And I had to have one this morning and it was over the phone. And it's a very different kind of conversation than if you can just do it and kind of walk away from it on social media. And it's just best not to. Social media is a. It's a blessing and it's a curse, to Ari's point.
- [21:44]
Rob Morrow
You know, it's like if you're just dropping these bombs on the Internet, you know, then. Then there's no real discourse, there's no real potential for reconciliation, which is what we ultimately want, you know, Dar Ed, Darren Burroughs, who plays Ed, his was such a touching kind of story.
- [22:08]
To see him come into what he described after he voted as feeling manly, feeling like he finally became a man because he took responsibility for his vote, his single vote. And it's a small storyline within the. I think there's three main stories in the episode, but his is a touching one. His performance was very poignant, you know, and vulnerable and a little different than his normal performance.
- [22:37]
Jeanine
That's true. It was very earthy, very grounded, you know, very.
- [22:43]
In keeping with the emotion that he felt. I agree, Darren was wonderful in the episode. And before I come back, I'll just say the scenery was amazing. The snow falling.
- [22:53]
Rob Morrow
The snow was so great.
- [22:55]
Jeanine
The way Michael Cattleman got those trees and the big pine trees and how we all did those night shoots in the freezing col. And I'll point out too, that. Okay, I have to remember my other two thoughts. But for people who are listening to the show and want to know about behind the scenes, you and I have that scene inside the bar, right? And then suddenly we walk outside the bar and we walk down the street. And for those who are watching that might think this is interesting. The inside of the bar we filmed in Redmond, which is right outside Seattle. And then the outside of the bar, when we do that walk and talk, I think it was toward the end, we're actually in Redmond, Washington. So that's the crazy thing. It edits like it all is simultaneous. But we were actually. It was probably five days apart.
- [23:37]
Rob Morrow
The trick of movie acting is that continuity of emotion, you know, of trying to remember what I shot eight days ago with you in the bar. And now I have to pick it up, you know, where there's just a half a second between when they cut it and you have to carry that forward.
- [23:55]
Ari Melber
What were the main areas you guys shot in?
- [23:58]
Rob Morrow
We shot in. We had stages in Redmond, and then we would go up to Rosslyn, which is in the Cascades, about an hour and a half south east or northeast? Southeast. Southeast. And we would go there about two. We shot eight days every episode. So we'd go up there for about two days an episode.
- [24:21]
Ari Melber
And is Rosalind where you have the outside of the bar? The biggest image is that Roslyn, the brick.
- [24:26]
Rob Morrow
Yeah.
- [24:27]
Jeanine
And it's all still there.
- [24:28]
Ari Melber
I was just thinking some people won't care, but. But here we are. I remember we would drop. We drove through Roslyn, and my family did a lot of hiking. And I think we would drive through Roslyn anyway, for. Was on the way to something. I don't know if it was the Cascades or what. And I remember then I haven't been there recently. I'm out in Brooklyn. But seeing that and be like, oh, my God, yeah, that's the spot. So it's. That's cool for Northwest, you know, it.
- [24:51]
Jeanine
Still looks exactly the same. I mean, it's kind of fun to go. It's just. And people like, wait, those weren't stages. I'm like, no, no, no. That was a real town.
- [24:59]
Rob Morrow
But it was amazing how Different. The weather was right. You know, the weather in. Compared to Seattle, compared to what we got up there. I mean, that you didn't have that kind of snowfall in Seattle proper.
- [25:10]
Jeanine
True. And it was so beautiful, and we were always so cold. We were standing by those heaters outside, warming our hands, and it was the middle of the night, and we'd have all these shots, you know, walking down, but it was beautiful. It was so beaut. But two things. One, I loved at the end, the way Rob, you. Our characters, Fleischman, o', Connell, even though we voted differently, thought. I love the way she thought. Colors were energy, by the way.
- [25:33]
Rob Morrow
I did, too. That's what I'm saying. I agreed. I agreed with her. I was like, yeah, go, Maggie.
- [25:37]
Jeanine
That's kind of cool. I believe in that. Right. The energies. But the way at the end, you know, we came together. Everybody did. Everybody came together, and we, you know, we did that little kick of. We did the little kick and the little pat and the little thing that we did walking into the.
- [25:50]
Rob Morrow
Wait. But by the way, that. That kick was in improv. It wasn't in the script. I did it, and I think I did it only on that take.
- [25:58]
Ari Melber
And.
- [25:59]
Rob Morrow
And I could tell watching you, you were kind of like, what the fuck, man? Hey, you just kicked me in the ass. But. But it. They kept it, which I, you know, I liked because it was a real, you know, I agree with you. Like, we. We were at such odds. And I guess that's always the case in the show is we find kind of common ground somehow.
- [26:20]
And in successfully pulling off the election and as you said, the peaceful transfer of power, we can bond over that. But I love that moment when I kick you.
- [26:32]
Jeanine
Yeah, it was fun because then I, like, tapped you on the back, and we had this little kind of playful thing going back and forth, but it's interesting to think about. They didn't identify if Colm was the Republican or. What was her name? Edna.
- [26:46]
Rob Morrow
Yeah. That was played by Rita Taggart.
- [26:48]
Jeanine
Yeah. She was great.
- [26:49]
Rob Morrow
She was. She was great, right? What a great face.
- [26:51]
Jeanine
Yeah. Which is what I like to think about myself. Everyone wants to pigeonhole me as being something particular, but I love to be an independent thinker because you can't pigeonhole me in either party. And I just want to be an independent thinker. And I wouldn't be great if we didn't have these party platforms and we could just vote for people based off what they're thinking and what they're doing or believing. And we didn't even know what party they were in. Wouldn't that be interesting? That'll never happen, but it'd be interesting.
- [27:23]
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- [28:36]
Ari Melber
Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us at age 13 as you do 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.
- [28:52]
Jeanine
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- [29:25]
Okay, Ari, I have a thought for you here.
- [29:29]
I was struck by John, by Chris in the morning's inability to vote right. And I've never really thought about this subject often, you know, if you've been incarcerated, you are no longer entitled to vote. And it just made me think about, you know, wouldn't it be interesting? Obviously that's a statute somewhere. It's not in the Constitution. I don't think so. It's a statute. And it's like, what if someone's been out of. They were incarcerated 20, 20 years ago. Do they ever get the chance to vote again? Because you just kind of left the episode thinking, wow, I would love Chris in the Morning to be able to vote. I mean, and he handled it so well. He didn't have a poor pit, you know, poor. He didn't have a pity party. He just handled it well. So I'm curious what Yalls thoughts are on this.
- [30:14]
Ari Melber
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the ways they. You can explore that in a show and then it humanizes it because, you know, half the time people hear about these things. You hear that somebody has a record, and to some people they say, well, the heck with them. But if you meet someone as a fully formed human being and then especially if you find out that the record they have maybe isn't the worst thing in the world, it's a totally different start to that, that thought. Like many of our legal issues, it ranges by state. So there are some states that are more loose and lax with this and they'll restore voting rights, especially after people serve their time. And there are others that are much more harsh. And so this has been a big debate in different states. I always think it's interesting as a lawyer because when you practice law, you're closer to those problems. And I think they're humanized. And so we can all agree, or almost all agree that there are some things so terrible. You say somebody went and they did premeditated first degree murder and they're convicted. Well, first of all, they may be in for life, so they're not coming back out to debate voting or anything else. And you could say, okay, there's that. But a lot of other cases, especially if people serve their time, are more gray because you say, okay, you were in for this tax fraud or you made this mistake, or you made this mistake when you were 19, now you're 40, you have a family, you've had a clean record for 20 years. What are we doing as a society? Are we saying we don't want this person to be a part of society in a meaningful way, civic, professional or otherwise? I always remind people that while we do sometimes take away voting rights and people's job prospects are really restricted, I mean, if you have a record for anything serious, it's a lot harder to get a job. And you usually get paid less because they say, oh well, we could get someone without a record. So to even get the job, you end up being less competitive, yada, yada. But we don't take away people's speech rights. We don't say that because somebody did something bad and paid their time, that now they're not allowed to talk in public. I mean, that sounds like North Korea or something. So I always think it's interesting, depending on which example you use, you'll get maybe different reactions of how harsh we should be. But, yes, I think also the art humanizing, it just lets the audience just have a beat and think about it in a different way.
- [32:24]
Jeanine
Yeah. Because they didn't make a statement. Yeah.
- [32:28]
Ari Melber
But I think it's like, if I'm generalizing, it's traditionally a little more liberal view to say, oh, let's have criminal justice reform. Let's be more thoughtful, smart. On crime agendas often come from Democrats. But I could give you a conservative example in art where you humanize someone who maybe is in a tough job, like police or military, and through that humanizing, even if they made a mistake or they're somehow viewed differently, you go, oh, wait. I mean, I can think of a lot of movies that do that. Right, right.
- [32:56]
So what art does is help us sometimes get past that first political lens and then say, wait, we're still all people underneath that, you know?
- [33:05]
Rob Morrow
Yeah, that's great. You know, it's interesting also, you know, Chris Stevens Corbett has this transformation that I found fascinating. You know, he's so. He's this scraggly ragamuffin with the beard and everything, and then somehow takes. He's as clean as he's ever been on our show. At the end of that episode, wearing a suit, you know, which I found an interesting kind of choice that they took him on that transformation. And I think you're right, Janine. It was sweet the way his character kind of accepted that he was not. He didn't have the right to vote, but that he still believed in. You know, I think he says it's a. You know.
- [33:51]
It'S not a perfect system, but it's the best one there is, you know, and he's supportive of it for that. There's a lot of good points that are made throughout the episode.
- [34:02]
That I found really hopeful. And again, you know, one of the things that's this show. I don't know why it doesn't feel dated to me. I know there's certain aspects of it are. But. But it feels like you could be this. Could. This same episode could be shot on a show today, you know, and having the same small town, you know, all politics are local kind of thing.
- [34:27]
And that Holling has been the mayor for 16 years just because no one ever. No one ever thought about it, you know, I mean.
- [34:34]
Jeanine
And he only lost by 8 votes. I thought that was really interesting.
- [34:38]
Rob Morrow
And then you eventually become. I don't want to get ahead of ourselves. But you become the mayor, don't you?
- [34:43]
Jeanine
I don't. You know, people tell me that I really don't remember.
- [34:46]
Ari Melber
I will have to get to the episode.
- [34:49]
Jeanine
They're like, weren't you the mayor? I'm like, was I?
- [34:51]
Ari Melber
I don't know.
- [34:53]
Jeanine
It's been a long time.
- [34:56]
I think that that happened toward the very end after I'd had mult a surgery that.
- [35:02]
Rob Morrow
Anyway, I love that montage during the voting. I guess it's like a kind of Aaron Copeland, like, score behind it. And there's something just so sweet. And whenever, whenever the show allowed for these kind of cinematic sequences.
- [35:21]
You know, I always loved it, especially because we didn't have to learn dialogue. But there's something, you know, as I've said before, Northern Exposure was the cinemati. The kind of the beginning of the cinematizing of television. And when you see sequences like that that were unusual for television because television up until then was about, you know, heads talking, you know, like this in a tight shot. And Michael Kadiman, who's directed a number of episodes for us, always did a great job.
- [35:51]
Jeanine
Well, I always cry when I vote today. And I always just think it's so moving. I'm always like, oh, it's just like so cool. And where I vote up here in the country, Ari. I live up here on a ranch. It's an old sort of 1800s old, like one room church. And it creaks and you have to walk up. Not even a church. It's like a community center. It's the community center. And it creaks as you walk up the little platform and you go in and has that old smell. And it's one room and I always take a picture, like, look where I'm voting. This is so cool.
- [36:22]
Ari Melber
What's the best part of range living? Yeah. Do you get. Do you feel like you're more chill and low key and a little distant from everything or. Not necessarily.
- [36:30]
Jeanine
Yeah. Oh, well, it's. It's starting to grow because everybody's moving to these, you know, you know, southern states or whatever. So it's worse. Like, in other words, I used to be able to go out and see all the lights and the fire, fireflies. And now all the city lights are starting to encroach a little bit. But I. I think the greatest thing is just the privacy back here. I can walk to the barn in my nightgown. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. I can go talk to my cows and My horses. And it's. I love the privacy, but I also love the small town aspect. Like, if I call the courthouse, I get somebody on the phone, you know, then they might know me and I know them. And that's the part of a small town that I really, really like.
- [37:09]
Rob Morrow
Right. Like this show, you know, it's. It's interesting that in the episode we had 87% turnout. Like 87% of people in town voted because of that. I mean, everyone knows everyone. Do you get to watch much tv, Ari?
- [37:23]
Ari Melber
You know, I do. I watch. I watch shows and series. So I'll keep up with. Oh, here's something on hbo, Netflix.
- [37:36]
I don't watch much that relates to politics or my day job. Right. Like, I already. I'm serviced on that. And I love music stuff. So whenever there's the new documentaries or sort of deep dives, I always find that interesting. And then sometimes I'll watch something back. Like I rewatched Succession. I just found. Now that's like edges into some stuff I deal with at work. But I just found that as a character drama so engrossing that I actually wanted to just go back and do it again. Or I'll tell you another one. The last day. I think I've watched like four times, which is almost like. Is that not a good use of my time?
- [38:10]
Rob Morrow
Wait, what's the last dance? Why am I.
- [38:12]
Ari Melber
That's the Michael Jordan 10 hour.
- [38:14]
Rob Morrow
Oh, yeah. Oh, that's so good. Oh, my God.
- [38:16]
Ari Melber
Yeah, I realized what I was. I was watching it again the way I listened to a great song. I'm not. There's no spoiler. I'm not. It's not a thriller. I'm not wondering what's going to happen. That show was always like that because. Because it's about sports events from 20 years ago. So it's not like a developmental process to me. It's more like music where.
- [38:41]
There'S artistry and inspiration in how Michael Jordan did his work and his job. Obama once said Michael Jordan was so good at his job that he is the most common metaphor for being good at any job. So people will say, this is the Michael Jordan of rabbis. This is the Michael Jordan of surgeons. Imagine being so good at something that it goes out to everything. Because it meant. Now I'm just riffing on that. But it meant that it wasn't just that he played basketball very well, which he did. There was an excellence and a focus.
- [39:18]
That was so pure and effective that people go, well, yeah, I'd want my doctor to be as serious about my day's surgery as that guy was, every time he stepped on the court, I don't think you can watch that or his career and think that he ever was. You know, had his. You know, that season, he was kind of lazy or half at it. No.
- [39:40]
This was the definition of 100%. So I think that for some reason I keep going. I keep going back to rewatch it because I just kind of get down with it. Like a James Brown song. Like, it gives me something.
- [39:50]
Rob Morrow
It's fascinating. It's such a. I mean, he always closed Michael Jordan. It was just an extraordinary thing to watch. I mean, it's just extraordinary. Great documentary. So you're not watching shows like the Diplomat or, you know, that's not up you. That wouldn't be. Because that's a great show.
- [40:04]
Ari Melber
I've seen some of the Diplomat, and they've got great performances in there. But, no, it's not my go. When I worked, I worked briefly on Capitol Hill before going to law school, and I was into it. I chose to go do it. But I remember I was living with other young guys. We'd all moved to get these jobs, and I'd come home and they'd be watching West Wing with Sheen at night. And I would say, haven't you guys had enough? I mean, so diplomatic. Or I never saw. And I'm not knocking. I heard about good performances on what's called the morning show.
- [40:41]
Rob Morrow
Yeah, good performances, Absolutely.
- [40:44]
Ari Melber
People often ask me, have you seen that? Is it realistic? I've never seen an episode, and it's not a knock. It's just like. Like not coming home to that. After doing a day's work of showing.
- [40:55]
Rob Morrow
Of course you'd feel like you were at work. It's a good show for sure. But I refer to this as the platinum age of television because there's always something great. There's the andor and dark matter. A show that people didn't know. It's like, there's just so much out there, which is great.
- [41:14]
Jeanine
It's like so many shows. How do you pick?
- [41:16]
Rob Morrow
I wait for enough people. If I hear it from enough disparate people, I check it out. Like, if five people tell me that they. They're watching this show is great. And they're all kind of different types of people. I go, okay, I gotta check it out.
- [41:28]
Jeanine
I do like the Diplomat. I do like the Diplomat. I don't know if the new season's out yet.
- [41:31]
Rob Morrow
It's great. It's my. It's the best season yet. So far, I think.
- [41:34]
Jeanine
Is the new season out?
- [41:35]
Rob Morrow
It's on now.
- [41:36]
Jeanine
I can go watch it now. That's cool.
- [41:38]
Rob Morrow
But let's get back to our show because I know the fans want us to talk about it. So. So. So some of the. You know, there's some interesting quotes in here. I'm sure you clocked them, Ari. You know, the Justice Holmes things. Thomas Jefferson at the end. There were. There's some great quotes. I mean, that. That. That they inject into this network drama.
- [41:59]
Jeanine
What was the Jefferson quote?
- [42:01]
Rob Morrow
He. Chris says it at the end on. On the. On the air, on the radio. He says, sometimes it is said that a man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer the question.
- [42:22]
Ari Melber
I mean, I love that one. It's funny. As you say, it's a high calling for a show or day to day. People might think, well, are you making me go to law school? Making me do a civics textbook?
- [42:38]
But I do think the reason why the founders stand tall and can be unifying is. Is they really were creating something. You know, nowadays people talk about, oh my gosh, can you believe they created this app? It might help you get, you know, a car to the airport. Cool. That's cool. I mean, it's nice. They created a system of government that was a challenge to the oppression of kings and the divine right of kings and everything else. So that, you know, Jefferson and invoking that idea that it's precisely because people are not great and king's oppressed and the system was oppressive, that you try to have checks and balances and something better. And yet it's a classic call to have the sum be greater than the parts that any individual person. Back then they'd say, man. Now we say person is flawed. And you couldn't trust any single person to govern everyone without checks on them. And yet if you have enough people and they're in different branches and you have some system of accountability and transparency that we might then. Yet be better govern ourselves better than the single person might. Might be. Whether you think of that as like, are you in control of your life or do you make mistakes or should you control everyone else's life? You know, I don't think the, you know, for all the division we have today, that that quote in that mood hits then like it hit hit in the 18th century like it hits now. Because I don't think there's very many rational people who would say, I'd rather live under a unaccountable king or North Korea. Like I mentioned that if you actually learn about that, very few people choose that, you know.
- [44:25]
Rob Morrow
This episode is brought to you by Casamigos Tequila.
- [44:29]
Ari Melber
What do you bring to a holiday party? Simple.
- [44:31]
Rob Morrow
A bottle of Casamigos. Because nothing gets the party started like a Casamigos margarita. Which isn't just for summer. In fact, it's the perfect pour all year round.
- [44:42]
Ari Melber
Casamigos is the gift that always feels right.
- [44:44]
Rob Morrow
Because anything goes with my Casamigos.
- [44:47]
Ari Melber
Please drink responsibly.
- [44:48]
Rob Morrow
Imported by Casamigos Spirits Co. White Plains, N.Y. casamigos Tequila 40% alcohol by volume.
- [44:56]
Jeanine
This episode is brought to you by McAfee. I found this great place to stay this weekend. Click on the L and bucket.
- [45:03]
Rob Morrow
Oh, wow.
- [45:04]
Jeanine
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- [45:31]
And, you know, then the Federalist Papers, they talked about James Madison. Sometimes it's attributed to Alexander Hamilton. But men are not angels.
- [45:40]
And the fact that men are not angels, that was the whole kind of premise of our. Of our checks and balances in the Constitution, is that men are not angels. We got to go on that premises that we strive to be good, but we're going to fail. And let's prevent tyranny by these checks and balances. And it's really interesting compared to other other sorts of governments that think, you know, utopia, men are never going to make mistakes. You know, it's men. We believe in everything that man does. So it's really interesting, kind of to echo and to build on what you're talking about. Right? It's just men are not angels. So it's like, we better have a good check and balance of our government. And I think that's one of the greatest things about our Constitution, is that those checks and balances, well, it's always funny to watch, right? Like, if a Republican's in office, the Democrats love the Constitution because they know they're going to get that check, check on tyranny and vice versa. If there's a Democrat in office, the Republicans love the Constitution because there's just a check and balance that, that. That, you know, may not always.
- [46:36]
Work, but it's supposed to check tyranny and power. And our founding fathers were very, very worried about tyranny because they just come out of, you know, King George iii, and tyranny was, was really paramount with them.
- [46:49]
Rob Morrow
So I don't know if either of you watching the American Revolution, the Ken Burns thing, but it's.
- [46:53]
Jeanine
Oh, I've heard it's good. Is it good?
- [46:55]
Rob Morrow
It's so good. It's exactly what you're, you know, what both you were talking about. It's very, it's very profound. And, you know, again, I think. And it's popular, which, to me, is what I love about the show that we're talking about, the episode that we're talking about. It's popular entertainment that is offering, you know, insight into what makes this country so amazing for all its flaws. You know, it is an extraordinary thing that we have here. And then when you see it broken down on such a small scale in the town of Sicily, Alaska, you know, where this, where the system works and Holling is, you know, I love that he concedes so, so, you know, gracefully, you know, that it's just that that's the way it works, and that's the way it. When, when it has worked. Yes, we've had our moments of difficulties, and we're having one right now. But, but it ultimately, we keep coming back to that, that to the foundation, and it gets us through because we have that check.
- [47:56]
Jeanine
Right. One of our winners, when we were talking about civil civic conversation, she, she actually, they were different ages, middle school, high school, college, but she was talking about, you know, that you'll be able to vote in another two years or another four years. And it's because when someone wins, we don't go, oh, my God, it's forever. It's forever. It's forever. We know that we have the power. The minority has a power through the First Amendment. Ari. Right. You know, it's like the First Amendment gives the minority a lot of voice, but that we can turn around and vote in another two to four years and change things. And that's a great check on power. And especially that the amendment that overturns, you know, unlimited branches and the amendment process is a great check on power. The amendment process. I love the fact that you can amend the Constitution through Congress or you can amend the Constitution through a convention of states, which has never actually happened, that the Founding Fathers gave us two ways. Like, what if Congress doesn't want to, you know, limit their terms or do whatever? Well, the states, two thirds of the states can come together and call their own convention, and then three quarters of the states can approve that. And that was a wonderful sense of power. So the checks and balances, I think, are. Are pretty. Are pretty impressive. And it gives us the ability to accept, you know, because, well, all right, we might not like it, but we can speak our thoughts. We have. Minorities have power to speak, and then we can vote again in just two to four years. And the amendment that changed the presidential after FDR from unlimited terms to limited terms, I think really helps us all accept when we don't like the choice.
- [49:28]
Rob Morrow
Yeah, absolutely. Ari, do you remember watching the show when you were a kid?
- [49:33]
Ari Melber
I do, because I remember with my folks.
- [49:36]
Only certain things we'd watch together. That was one, probably partly regionally. I remember watching McNeil Lair.
- [49:43]
Jeanine
Oh, I love McNeil Lair. I love that show. Did you ever watch it, Rob?
- [49:48]
Rob Morrow
I did, of course, but he's like SE cup, who we had as a guest. They were both so precocious that they were, as kids watching McNeil lay.
- [49:55]
Jeanine
They were all sitting back in their chairs, you know, in the round circle. I used to go home and watch that. Anyway, sorry, Ari. Continue on.
- [50:01]
Ari Melber
No, I mean. And, well, like, SNL is funny because.
- [50:06]
With my job and doing the news and meeting a lot of people, I'm sure you know, from your jobs, there's all these things. Some of them are surreal. And the nature of that is you just get used to it. You kind of. You're not constantly in that mode of, oh, my God. And that's probably healthy. And then other times, things are just like, whoa. So, for example, Saturday Live last season did an impression of our news channel, and they had several of us that I. They had one of me.
- [50:32]
Rob Morrow
It was pretty great. I have to say. I saw it.
- [50:35]
Ari Melber
Well, it felt so funny to me, more than other things that have happened. Maybe because I really remembered being 10 or 12 with my parents watching the Impressions, and because of my household being interested in news and politics. I remember watching Phil Hartman Clinton and those kind of jokes. So then watching that and being like, wait, I grew up watching this and now they're doing me, which. Which means they think I'm that guy. But I'm not that guy. I'm just a person like that, really, because I grew up on it and likewise. Yeah. So this show I remember, like I said, my folks, they've lived out in Seattle, the Volcan, almost their entire lives. After college, They've been married 52 years. My dad worked as a doctor on the Lummi Native American reservation in the northwest Bellingham area. Then they were in Seattle. My mom's There worked as a sociologist there in Seattle. So, yeah, I think there was debt. Like anything, all politics is local and so is a heck of a lot of culture. Like, that show resonated with their sort of Northwest experience.
- [51:38]
Jeanine
I can honestly think you've made it if someone's caricatured you on Saturday night.
- [51:44]
Rob Morrow
Yes, you've made it.
- [51:45]
Jeanine
You've made it, Ari.
- [51:46]
Ari Melber
Well, for people who are listening and saying, well, maybe they're not into the news or they haven't copied me, right? Everybody's got different. Different things they follow. But that impression spoke, unlike today, exclusively through rap quotes. So every time they would turn to him, he would just give a quote and that's all he would say. So that was the gag. And I was sort of like, I get it. It's like, I do use other nouns and verbs sometimes, but it's a good impression.
- [52:10]
Rob Morrow
It's funny, you know, I had the similar thing with SNL because I hosted it and I. I was like, you. I grew up, up. You know, watching that show as a kid, and then to find myself on that stage was so surreal. And then to make it even more bizarre, Nirvana was the band, and Nirvana we knew from Seattle, right, Because we all would run into each other and hang out. And this was 92, 93, 92.
- [52:36]
Ari Melber
Is it really like you. You prep it in a week, or how much time did you have from walking into this to Saturday night?
- [52:42]
Rob Morrow
You get there on a Monday day, and Lauren kind of takes you in the office and gives you the lay of the land, and then the hits the fan, and all week long, it's complete and total anarchy. It's impo. It doesn't seem like it's ever possible that they can come up with a cohesive show by Saturday night. And Saturday night comes along and you're on, and it's so. It's so chaotic. They're. They're. They're. They're revamping the show as you're on the air, so you go to commercial, you know, and someone grabs your hand and yanks you into the. Under the rafters. And they. Three people rip your clothes off and put you on something, and then someone comes up to you and says, you know, in the scene, there's going to be. We had to. We're running long. So we cut two pages, and I'm like, what? Two pages? And they say, you'll see on the cue cards. And I'll be like, well, what scene? They say, the one you're about to do. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
- [53:33]
Jeanine
And you're like, that's why people are reading the. I always wonder why they're reading the cue cards.
- [53:39]
Rob Morrow
Phil Hartman actually told me that. He said, you don't want to be a shifty eye because the shift. The technique of reading cue cards on SNL or shows like that is if I'm looking at you directly, the actor, I can't then shift my eyes to the cue card. I have to look down somewhere and then look up, and then it acts as if I'm looking at you. And the way depth of field works, you forgive that the actor is not looking, but when you go back and forth, that's what gives the illusion away. And you can tell some people are good at it and some aren't.
- [54:13]
But all roads lead to Seattle is my point, I guess.
- [54:17]
Ari Melber
But that's a fun. I mean, that's also a timeless thing now, going on, whatever, 51 years. That's one of those life experiences. Right. You do that. You don't forget that. Hosting the whole. And then by the end of the night. Night. Were you, like, okay, we did it, or was it, like, good or a blur? Like, I don't even know what just happened.
- [54:36]
Rob Morrow
It was a good blur that I didn't know what happened. You know, it was just. It was. It was so euphoric and celebratory and fun.
- [54:48]
Yeah. And. And it's. You know, it's just a. It's an incred. The energy in that place. Have you ever been to. Have you guys ever been to a taping?
- [54:55]
Ari Melber
I've just watched.
- [54:57]
Rob Morrow
There's such a great energy.
- [55:00]
Oddly enough, the first job I had in New York, I was 18, was an extra on SNL.
- [55:09]
Which we used the clip of me as an extra in my monologue when I was hosting 15 years later.
- [55:14]
Jeanine
That means you made it, too. Those are. Both of you. Both of you have your Saturday Night Live iconic moment, but it brings us.
- [55:21]
Rob Morrow
Back to kind of the synchronicities of life, like, full circle. In this conversation, Ari was talking about. About how.
- [55:29]
Acting as a kid didn't necessarily inform what he does now, but I see it as doing it. And me being an extra on SNL and then hosting it, and then it's all. Everything just kind of leads us. The synchronicities of life, they're kind of signposts. If you pay attention to them, they can probably lead you to where you need to go.
- [55:50]
Ari Melber
We live in a very capitalist society, so I think there's an extra premium on anything that people do professionally. That's deemed successful. But not all art and not all expression and not all things that matter are of course, commercial. And so what you're talking about whatever level someone might be doing, right? Someone could be listening to this podcast and think about, well, they're not gonna. They don't think they're on the track to host SNL like you, but boy, they really are working on this artistic project or they like the feeling when they land a joke or, you know, there's different levels of how it is relevant. But I do think that to your point, figuring out what you actually both enjoy and are good at is part of the knack of life. Because I also meet New York is such a funny. I grew up and still have a lot of, I think, Seattle inside me, like in terms of vibes. But I've been in New York a long time and New York's a place that is full of people who work very hard and who are operating at a high level and don't actually come across all that consistently content or happy. They're not, Janine, they're not in. And again, it sounds like I'm generalizing 8 million people, plenty of them are happy. But Janine, they're not in their nightgown, wandering to greet the horses and feeling like this is life. They have peace. They're telling you, sometimes, you know, I did this and I did that, but next I got to do this and then all that and you're sort of going, okay, you know, and that's, I think again to go back to art and why people connect with certain artistic stories about human condition or yearning or longing or the age old thing of, you thought you wanted this and you got it, but you're not. It didn't feel like you thought it would. So now what? What's next? Right. I think, I think there's a lot of that. And so, you know, in our cases, if you're talking about connecting with something genuine at a young enough point in your life that you can do something about it, you know, and say, because yes, I have no idea how I got exactly A, B, C, D and D is somewhat like A, but B and C weren't certainly working at a law firm, writing briefs for layers of lawyers with way more experience. So you're really the rookie and you're just helping you hand it over. That's nothing like being in a play or my current job, which is more public facing.
- [58:05]
Rob Morrow
But it's writing, which writing led you to your getting a gig on msnbc.
- [58:10]
Ari Melber
But when you have that knack of and not being conflicted about it. Sort of like. Yeah, no, I love connecting with people and I love presenting. And so I'm not like, it's not that early Woody Allen character who's at war with his own desire. Oh, does this mean that it's bad if I like this or that? You know what I mean? It's more like, wait, if this feels good, let me channel it into maybe something I can try to learn how to do or be decent at, you know?
- [58:34]
Jeanine
Well, I think what you're saying is profound. I mean, first of all, there are a lot of times I walk to the barn very, very distraught.
- [58:42]
I'm shuffling to the barn in tears and I'm wailing to the trees.
- [58:45]
Ari Melber
I didn't mean to romanticize it.
- [58:47]
Jeanine
I mean, I'm like, you know, like, whoa. You know, it's like my life and I've lived in New York many decade, every decade of my life almost. And I love the energy of New York. But I think you touched on something really interesting because we're talking about these epitomes, you know what I mean? But everybody's purpose is, is unique to themselves. And it, it might be on a grand scale, it might be on a, a scale that's, that's more intimate in whose life you touch, but it doesn't. This, the, the power of that is, is not diminished. Whether you touch 1, 2, 3 people, you're touching 3, 4, 5, 6,000 or million people. And I'll just tell you, you know, I made a call the other day and I don't think she'll, she'll mind. It was to John Cullum's daughter, ex daughter in law. And she's living with John Column. And I was talking about John Column with her and she's a director and an actor, actor in New York. Ended up having the most amazing conversation that went into, you know, other aspects in religion and things of that nature. And she said something to me that was so powerful that I have now been calling on that. And it's a spiritual thing, you know what I mean, to help get me through my moments of woe. And I thought it was the most, least expected thing that I would call John Column's ex. Daughter in law. He was living with him in New York City a of years ago.
- [60:07]
Rob Morrow
Couple.
- [60:07]
Ari Melber
Okay.
- [60:08]
Jeanine
That she, we would go on this conversation and, and I just think that the power of how we can affect each other's lives can be so intimate.
- [60:16]
Rob Morrow
Well, what did she say?
- [60:17]
Jeanine
Oh, well, she might not want me to go into it. It was just religion, you know, it's like, it was like calling on the Holy Spirit, you know, is what it was. It was like, you know, holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus, please help me through this. And it's really helped me personally with some of these things I'm having to go through, because I'm like, okay, I can call. I can call on this, Janine.
- [60:35]
Ari Melber
Don't forget. Although I'm Jewish, so I'm less of a Jesus guy, I think there was a barn involved somewhere in there.
- [60:45]
Jeanine
Nativity.
- [60:48]
Rob Morrow
That's a good place for us to wind it up. I know Ari's. Ari's got to get into his day job. And, Ari, thank you so much. You were so insightful and fun. You're just such a great guy.
- [60:58]
Ari Melber
Oh, thanks for having me. I love that you guys are doing this and doing it about such a whole, wholesome, positive piece of art. And it's fun to see you both riffing off each other and have a freewheeling combo like this. So thanks to you and your listeners.
- [61:10]
Rob Morrow
Thanks for wearing the Patagonia, too.
- [61:12]
Ari Melber
There you go.
- [61:14]
Jeanine
Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next week. And we're gonna sign off from o' Connell and Fleischman.
- [61:19]
Rob Morrow
Actually, I think it probably should be Fleischman o'.
- [61:21]
Jeanine
Connell. Yeah, in your dreams, Fleischman.
- [61:30]
Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson.
- [61:35]
Rob Morrow
And Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.