Janine Turner (2:37)

Just rode my horse and.

Rob Morrow (2:39)

You rode your horse, went to Bothell.

Janine Turner (2:41)

Washington from Woodinville, Washington, and then rode my horse.

Joanna Cassidy (2:45)

I'm sure that's what I did in.

Janine Turner (2:47)

18 layers of clothes because it was so cold.

Rob Morrow (2:50)

It was cold. And you can see that we're in the heart of winter in this episode and much of it beautifully captured so we have. Matt Nodella was, who's one of our producers, basically our line producer. This was his directorial debut. He directed this episode written by Robin Green and Mitch Burgess and also an uncredited Jack London. Because of all that Chris Stevens reads.

Janine Turner (3:19)

From Call of the Wild.

Rob Morrow (3:21)

Call of the Wild and maybe a little of White Fang and, you know, and it's. He's, you know, pretty much all throughout the episode and kind of paralleling the story of Holling and Maurice, which is. We'll talk about more when we bring on our guests, who I can tell you want to bring her on soon. So have at it.

Janine Turner (3:45)

I'm so excited. Yeah, the episode, I can't wait to speak with her about it. The episode was filled with exteriors. I'm sure they were freezing cold. It looked absolutely beautiful. And I'll just say before we, before we introduce our fabulous guest, how amazing. Once again, you know, tour de force. John Cullum and Barry Corbin were to do that work, which was difficult work to do because it was sort of, you know, story narrative instead of character driven. And it was, there was a, there was a lot of action adventure going on. So those things are, they're difficult. But the scenery was amazing. Wasn't it?

Rob Morrow (4:25)

So beautiful.

Janine Turner (4:26)

They had to have been so cold.

Rob Morrow (4:28)

So beautiful. Yeah, it looked like they, you know, it was, it was all shot on location except maybe a couple of those cabin interiors, but beautiful and, and in the heart of winter and. Yeah, we'll talk about it. I'll give you the synopsis of the episod. So it's called the Three Amigos, and it. When an old hunting buddy dies, Holling and Maurice set off to bury him at no Name Point, which is deep in the wilderness. The trip is disastrous and includes an unexpected run in with the man's attractive widow.

Janine Turner (5:02)

Ah, speaking of attractive widow, drum roll, please. Our guest today is the oh so amazing. And I've worked with her on two projects, Northern Exposure and Circle Seat. The amazing Joanna Cassidy. And I'm just going to tell you, her work here. You know her work. But she has a film coming out. First of all, Killing Faith is out now. Her movie, Killing Faith Behemoth is another movie that's, that's going to be released soon by Disney. She was in, she played Solvang in this Northern Exposure episode. But you will all remember her from Blade Runner, which is probably one of my top one or two movies in the world. I love Blade Runner, the original Blade Runner. She was the, the Zora, the character in the see through raincoat. And that chase, she was a Replicant and was shot, and all that blood went all over the raincoat. If y' all remember that, we can talk about that with her. But she's phenomenal. She started. She has. She has a list of credits a mile long, but some of the highlights where she had many episodes and many movies, of course. Six Feet Under, Star Trek, Men in Black, Melrose Place, Boston Legal, Call Me Fits, Body of Proof, ncis. She's gorgeous. She's wonderful. She's lovely. She's uber talented. We're thrilled to have Joanna Cassidy with us today.

Joanna Cassidy (6:25)

Hi, everybody. That's great. Thank you. What an introduction.

Janine Turner (6:31)

Look at you. You know, I have to tell everybody this is so much fun for us because it's like 30 years later, we get to see people with whom we bonded and with whom we worked, and we had this opportunity to see their faces again, and it's one of the greatest joys. So, Joanna, welcome. Are you in Los Angeles? Is that where you are?

Joanna Cassidy (6:49)

Well, right at the moment, I'm in Palm Springs. I'm looking out over the desert, and it's a beautiful day here today in sunny California. I'm glad I'm down this direction, because apparently there's. There were about 20 little earthquakes in Fillmore, California, which is about 50 miles outside of LA. I don't know whether you heard about that.

Rob Morrow (7:15)

That's funny, because I'm in. I'm in la, and I didn't feel them, but that's.

Joanna Cassidy (7:19)

You didn't feel anything? Okay. All right. I just.

Janine Turner (7:21)

Well, 30 is a lot. That's a lot. And by the way, I love Palm Springs. I filmed a series in Los Angeles during 9, 11, and every weekend, I would travel to Palm Springs. I just absolutely love Palm Springs.

Joanna Cassidy (7:32)

It's. It's very pretty here. It's. It's. It's quite beautif.

Rob Morrow (7:36)

Joanna. I remember being bummed because I didn't get to work with you in this episode. You were there, and I was such a fan, and I remember meeting you, but I just was like, God, you know, you show up on this set that I'm in, and not even in the. We're not even in the A episode.

Joanna Cassidy (7:53)

Right? We met and I thought, I'm not working with the stars. What happened here? But, I mean, I did work with a couple of the stars, but it was a lonely venture, let's put it that way, often to the. The very, very quiet. Cold. It was so cold, and you could. Excuse me. You could hear a pin drop.

Rob Morrow (8:15)

It's an adventure. It's a real adventure, and it really speaks to that. The show doesn't often get to the wilderness of Alaska. You know how out there existence is. I've gone on some adventures up there, and when you're out in the middle of nowhere, it's trippy. Aside from the stars being magnificent, you just feel how isolated it is up there.

Joanna Cassidy (8:43)

You really do. You absolutely can get so wound up in the otherworldliness of it.

Rob Morrow (8:52)

Are you an outdoor person?

Joanna Cassidy (8:54)

Totally. Totally. I'm not happy when I'm. Well, I'm not unhappy when I'm shooting inside a studio, but I much prefer shooting out.

Rob Morrow (9:04)

But, like, camping, wilderness, all that.

Joanna Cassidy (9:06)

Yeah, Love it. I love that. I. I remember, you know, when we first got there, my. Actually, my daughter was there with me because she was dating one of your cameramen.

Rob Morrow (9:17)

Oh, I don't remember this gossip.

Joanna Cassidy (9:21)

That was George.

Rob Morrow (9:23)

Oh, San Pietro.

Joanna Cassidy (9:25)

Yeah, yeah.

Rob Morrow (9:27)

Jolly grip. Yeah.

Joanna Cassidy (9:28)

Oh, wow. And so we were going around collecting the lichen off the trees hanging, because we were going to make some kind of gorgeous. I don't know, something. I don't remember what we ended up doing, but it was. I just loved it. I loved it.

Janine Turner (9:45)

Where were you? Do you remember? Did you travel into the Cascade Mountains? Was it about an hour and a half away?

Joanna Cassidy (9:50)

It was. It was a long drive out, long drive back. I just remember it was a. Days like that aren't easy. You're. I mean, you don't. You're not every minute, you know, shooting. But it was a very physical shoot. I had to jump on this horse.

Janine Turner (10:08)

I love it.

Joanna Cassidy (10:09)

I mean, like many times that horse was about 20 hands high, and I'm jumping on the horse. And you said the director was Matt Nadella. Yeah, I said, I'm not sure I can do this again. He said, you know.

Rob Morrow (10:27)

Roll camera. You said. You said, I'm not sure. He said, roll camera.

Joanna Cassidy (10:31)

So I'm up on that H. I had a couple of. We were padded. I mean, we had a lot of clothes on. But I was. I was bold enough for it.

Janine Turner (10:47)

Well, I noticed, too, you were in the flat little shoes. You were in sort of moccasin type of boots. I noticed when you're trying to get on that horse. And that's hard, too.

Joanna Cassidy (10:56)

That's right.

Janine Turner (10:57)

Not to mention getting on a horse, since I'm a horsewoman. Right. Getting on a horse behind someone who's in a saddle. I don't know how you did it.

Joanna Cassidy (11:08)

It's not the easiest. I don't know how I did it either. I don't Know whether I had. Maybe I was in my replicant phase or something.

Rob Morrow (11:15)

And to your point about being outdoors, you know, it's like when you. How hard it is because there's a base camp usually somewhere where there's a warm trailer and stuff. But when you're shooting out in the wilderness, you have to get far away. So usually you get trucked up to somewhere where there's nothing. And while shots are being set up, you're freezing. I mean, it's really hard to keep. To keep focused because you. You have to just figure out how to stay warm.

Joanna Cassidy (11:41)

Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. We actually sat in front of little heaters that they had plugged in, and it wasn't a cozy situation, but it was okay. We were there. We weren't going to go driving back and forth to the. And, you know, plus, it's also a great thing to be able to stay in character that way. Obviously, you're just like. You had to adjust to being that type of a person, and it works.

Rob Morrow (12:08)

It really. It really informed, you know, you. You guys were really out there, and you could feel that. Which I thought was. Was. Was great. Do you. Was your hair that short or did you cut it for the. The part? Do you remember?

Joanna Cassidy (12:24)

I think I had my red hair then.

Rob Morrow (12:25)

Right? It was short hair.

Joanna Cassidy (12:27)

I haven't seen the show in a long time.

Janine Turner (12:29)

You do have all that red hair. But, you know, I know what it's like to be inside, and sometimes you don't need to watch it again because I think this was an episode where you would remember because you have to go into those. I've worked in those little shacks in the middle of nowhere and those little cabins where you were either you lived or you're cooking soup or whatever you're doing. They looked very cold, too. I'm sure they were not.

Joanna Cassidy (12:54)

They were, but everybody else was in the same, you know, headspace. We were all suffering. So, you know, you're not gonna go off and be an actress and go cozy up somewhere and let everybody else freeze. It was okay with me. And my daughter was there, and we just roamed around and looked around and.

Janine Turner (13:14)

Oh, that's fun.

Joanna Cassidy (13:15)

The quiet of it was so brilliant and so breathtaking.

Rob Morrow (13:19)

What's your background, Joanna? Do you come out of the New York theater, or are you just starting movies and tv?

Joanna Cassidy (13:25)

No, I'm not a theater person. I went to Syracuse University to study fine art, and that was really going to be my direction. Didn't really have one at the time, except that I was Very interested in science and the art world. And so I really. I got married when I was 18, so I. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow is right. And he was doing an internship and residency in San Francisco. So I didn't really have time to think about it. I just jumped on board and we drove to San Francisco. And I was kind of a wife and a mother for a few years. And then I worked with a modeling agent named Ann Brebner in San Francisco for a while. And she would have casting people come through now and again. She would. Some of her people would end up being cast in a film. So that happened to me a couple times. And the casting people, wow, you really, you know, you're. You're very attractive. I said, thanks. And I don't know. I haven't had acting lessons. I haven't, you know, that's. I can stand in front of a camera and have my picture taken, but I don't know. I don't know where to stand on a set or anything. And so I did ultimately, when my daughter was 8, take a drive down to Los Angeles and at the business.

Janine Turner (15:09)

And there you go. And the rest is history. The rest is history. That's right. Phenomenal. Phenomenal career you've had. And of course, we want to talk about the episode, but could we digress a minute? I would love to talk about that short you did with the Dance with the Snake, but also Blade Runner. I mean, that was. You know, I remember seeing Blade Runner and the thing. Just the impact it had on me from. I love sci fi and I love quantum physics and futuristic type of things that are related to, you know, real other realms and things of that nature. But the. The art direction and the whole concept of replicants, which is happening today, I mean, we're not that far away from it. And the. All that you did in that movie and the chase, you want to just. I know you people always ask, but could you just talk to us a little bit about the movie experience? Because it was. I mean, you're acting in it. Your scene and your acting in it is really. Other than the art direction with the kind of crowdedness of the city, you know, your scenes stand out to me more than anybody else's in Blade Runner.

Joanna Cassidy (16:18)

It did for some people. And luckily, what added to that was the music with the Vangelis did for that scene. I can't watch it without crying. I see a woman being shot in the back is just so dreadful and just so moving and going through all that glass. I didn't come on the movie until the very end. So Syd Mead had designed like an arena for Zora to do her snake dance. And I was going to come out of a large mountain of sand and the snake tongue and my fingers were going to meet and then the sand would drop away and I would perform the dance. Now, you know, the snake was mine, his name was Darling. As I said, we did not get to do that. But we did. You know, the. All the other running stuff and all that stuff which I did myself. Except for going through the glass, I pretty much did all my own stunts. And there's a lot you don't even see in there because it was, you know, it was getting long. The film was getting long and the producers were getting crazed and they wanted the movie to be over and there was a writer's strike coming up. So it was. There was a lot of mishigas going on.

Rob Morrow (17:40)

It's a beautiful movie. I mean did and did you. Did you like working with Ridley?

Joanna Cassidy (17:45)

Loved it.

Rob Morrow (17:46)

Yeah, he's such a great director.

Joanna Cassidy (17:48)

He was so caring with everyone. Well, I really feel that the movie is a love story. I mean, I don't think of it in any other fashion. You have all these incredible people who, coming from another planet who they just want to live. They want to extend their lives and be alive. So of course they were going to fight for their life because people were after them, they were going to be murdered. So. And they were a tight little group. I had read the book years before.

Rob Morrow (18:27)

It's a Philip K. Dick. Yeah, yeah.

Joanna Cassidy (18:30)

And I thought what an incredible book. I too, Janine, am interested in sci fi and other planets and the reality of there actually being aliens here. I'm sure they're here walking around amongst us.

Rob Morrow (18:46)

There's a great documentary that just came out about what's going on with the. This recent sightings and the fact that they've possibly been here and that the government knows about it and it takes it. What makes distinguishes this documentary is that a lot of big government officials, you know, Marco Rubio, the ex head of the CIA are all in interviewed in the documentary. Chuck Schumer, you know, they all talk about this is these sightings.

Janine Turner (19:17)

What's it called? Do you know?

Rob Morrow (19:18)

Well, you got to watch this Janine, because you're going to love this. I'm looking it up right now.

Joanna Cassidy (19:23)

There was another program out that was. This is several years now is about what the world was going to be like when all the humans were gone and how the cities would become buried. I mean sort of like these the pyramids in Mexico and how they, the vegetation is just taken over. I, I find things like that utterly fascinating. And then, of course, they get rediscovered again.

Rob Morrow (19:54)

The documentary is called the Age of Disclosure.

Janine Turner (19:57)

All right, well, I'm going to be watching that one.

Rob Morrow (19:59)

Write it down. Janine. You're gonna, and then you're gonna, you write me after you watch it, text me, because you're gonna, you're gonna be blown away. I mean, it's, it's, it's a whole new. You should both watch it if you're interested in this stuff. It's mind boggling.

Janine Turner (20:13)

Yeah, I'm really. So tell us about the snake dance. So you recreated the snake dance in your short film?

Joanna Cassidy (20:19)

Yeah, I just. Well, I did a couple things because I just, you know, the movie never finished for me because they pull the plug right after I was killed, murdered in the movie. Harrison and Rutger went on and did that death scene where Rajkar says, I've seen things that you've never seen. And that beautiful, beautiful scene, it was like a 48 hour shoot. And I was there when the stuntwoman was getting prepped to go through the glass. I couldn't believe it. They're pulling wigs out of a trunk, you know, at 2:00 clock in the morning. And they had 40 minutes to get her ready to go through and be me. And so they were painting the tattoo on her neck and finding a wig which they really didn't have prepared. And poor Lee, Lee Purcell went, she was the stuntwoman. Anyway, she did it, she did it beautifully. She hid her face the best she could. And every time I looked at that movie, it drove me nuts. And say, you gotta reshoot this thing. This is, you know, it's a, it's my penultimate scene here. You have to reshoot it. 25 years later, I still had the costume and Warner Brothers said, okay, we'll do it. And the special effects guys will, they'll put it together, they will marry it into the film. And we did it against the green screen. It's perfect.

Rob Morrow (22:04)

Wait, what was your problem with, with her, with the stunt?

Joanna Cassidy (22:07)

Well, I could tell it wasn't me. I could, I could see the hair was not good and it just wasn't good.

Janine Turner (22:16)

Are you saying you re. You did a reshoot all those years later and they put it back in the original Blade Runner?

Joanna Cassidy (22:22)

Yes.

Janine Turner (22:24)

Really?

Joanna Cassidy (22:25)

Yes. So the final, final cut has me doing Going through the glass. And then 12 years ago, I just decided, I'm going to do a snake dance here. I just feel that happening. So I went out and I went out to this snake handler way out in the country and rented a few snakes and borrowed my friend's antique store and we shot a dance.

Rob Morrow (22:58)

Well, we're gonna have to watch that, but I think we should use this. We should. We should talk about the episode a little, Janine. But I think that this is a perfect segue because, you know, there's a. There's a couple big stunt sequences. I don't know if you remember, Joanna, but where they. Maurice and Holling, you know, they're taking this body.

Joanna Cassidy (23:16)

Yeah.

Janine Turner (23:17)

Butch Cassidy.

Rob Morrow (23:17)

And stunned Ed, very much like Butch Cassidy moment. But they're taking your ex husband to bury him in this place. They promised to bury him. And at one point, you. You leave them. You abandon them and say, I'm not going any further. Because you hook up with this guy in a local bar and you're like, this is good now for me. You're like. You move on fast and. But I noticed, you know, I don't know if you caught this, Janine, but, like, you could see the stunt guys doing everything they could to turn their heads away from the camera. Like, I knew that wasn't. That wasn't Barry and John. Nevertheless, it was a pretty cool sequence. And for Northern Exposure, very, you know, big stunt gag that we don't. We didn't tend to have.

Janine Turner (24:02)

It was like an action adventure. And for those who don't know how it works, you know, the stunt doubles, the actors might do the first six feet. You know, they may kind of go down on their bottoms, down the slope, the first six feet. And then you have the stunt doubles come in who are dressed just like them in exactly, you know, they always make sure they have two sets of costumes or three, and they try to match the wig or whatever, and then they go do the rest of it. But as you said, Rob, they turn their head so that they can't be. They can't be revealed. But it was exceptional. Kind of sort of action adventure, type of. For Northern Exposure, at least. I mean, I couldn't believe that they were even going down that slope to get them. And of course, we didn't even see how they got him back up. I'm like, I would really like to see how they got him back.

Rob Morrow (24:47)

I agree. I said that, too. That's the tricks of television.

Joanna Cassidy (24:51)

That body was so huge. The ones that.

Rob Morrow (24:54)

The body was huge. Yeah, Gigantic.

Joanna Cassidy (24:58)

Gigantic. I remember that was funny.

Janine Turner (25:00)

I guess your character was feeding him too much food because you love to cook all that food.

Joanna Cassidy (25:05)

I guess. I don't know.

Rob Morrow (25:06)

No. I also think what happened was he expanded for some reason. Yeah. Like rigor mortis, kind of. Yeah, yeah.

Janine Turner (25:13)

I've seen that in a lot of my cattle out here.

Joanna Cassidy (25:16)

Yes, exactly.

Rob Morrow (25:17)

Yeah.

Janine Turner (25:18)

Yeah. There's a whole process where it's like, okay, and then they bloat, and then they. They, like. It all goes away and they become skin and bones.

Rob Morrow (25:26)

Tell us what you. What you remember from showing up and shoot and shooting. Like, what. What comes back to mind?

Joanna Cassidy (25:32)

Well, I remember, Janine, you and I talking. We talked about. You were dating someone, then you were seeing somebody. We talked about children a lot. We. We. You know, whenever you. As an actor, you come into a situation where the actors have already been established, they're there, they know their. Their part. And I just think to myself, oh, gosh, I. How am I going to work this one out? You know? What. What's. What is going. What is that thing that's going to energize me to get to this woman who, first of all would live in the wilderness like that and be hanging out with guys like this? And it was too cold to go horseback riding, actually. I mean, the snow was deep then. I do remember that it was kind of treacherous. But you and I talked about horseback riding, Jeanine, And. And I just thought, oh, these people are really cool. They're just. They're at it. They're into it. They're. I mean, the group of you actors were so not, like, being Hollywood people, because you weren't in Hollywood. You adapted to your environment and you were those people, which is always really interesting to me how that happens. So I had to get on board with that. And, you know, I was quite admiring of the show, so.

Janine Turner (27:15)

Well, you know, they didn't bring very many stars in, ever. I mean, I think you're the biggest star they brought in. They brought in Peter Bogdanovich, but they were very careful, you know? So it's a real. It's kind of cool that they brought you in to be on the show. And your character was a lot of fun because she. She was such an independent woman. Right. I'm out here in the middle of nowhere, but I am going to have a man. You know what I mean? The way you like. You like going after Holly, and I think. Did you try to try to go after Maurice, too?

Rob Morrow (27:48)

Yeah.

Janine Turner (27:48)

Both you finally end up with, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You go to Maurice in the middle of night, and he's like, my friend is still dead, you know? Yeah, he's still dead. But I love how you kind of hit on every single one of them. And then you finally find the. The guy in the bar, and you say, I'm gonna stay with him. So isn't that kind of interesting to be such a. An independent woman and yet still determined? Maybe it's smart because I'm a. I was a single mom, and I'm a single now. And now that I'm in my 60s, I'm like, God, getting married might be really nice. I think I understand what God means when you need a partner, you know, to kind of get through life. And I think that's kind of what innately you knew. It's like, I don't want to serve your character. Knew. I don't want to survive out here in the middle of nowhere without a companion.

Rob Morrow (28:31)

Right. Well, it gets lonely, right?

Joanna Cassidy (28:32)

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Janine Turner (28:34)

You were going to find one. It's like. And that kind of pioneer, no nonsense type of stuff, right? Like, he's dead. I got to move on. There's a sense of survival. It's like, I've been with him for three years.

Joanna Cassidy (28:45)

He's dead.

Janine Turner (28:45)

Thanks for the money. A thousand bucks. Yeah. Great. And now it's. It's time to move on. And I think that that was reminiscent very much of pioneer days. Wives died, they buried him on the side of the pioneer trails. They found another wife to help them with the kids, and they moved on. What are your thoughts about that?

Joanna Cassidy (29:02)

Well, very much so. I mean, people didn't have a lot of options in those days. Women didn't go to school. They weren't, you know, pushed to get an education. So what they got was a man and a family. And so you did the best you could with that. It was. I read a lot of books about the 1800s and pioneer women. In fact, that's what Killing Faith is about. It takes place in the 1850s gold rush time. And a lot of the women.

Janine Turner (29:38)

Who.

Joanna Cassidy (29:38)

Were considered a little whacked or who didn't follow the rules were put in jail, and then the government sold them or traded them to the Indians, so they had to learn new skills. I mean, can you imagine being in the wilderness and just simply trying to survive and building something around yourself that would keep you warm, that would keep. Literally keep you alive. So, you know, in many ways, it's a. It's a simple life. You don't have to think too much, but in terms of intellectualizing or socializing, but you are thinking about how you're going to get up the next morning and feed your family. So that can be a drive in someone that propels, literally propels them to just keep moving. And in this case, she had to keep moving.

Rob Morrow (30:40)

I love, she says to Maurice, don't, don't keep such a, don't, don't keep such a tight grip on those family jewels.

Janine Turner (30:48)

And then you said you had a great line like there's one born every minute or something like that. And I wasn't sure what that meant. I guess it was just that there's a man born every minute. I, I don't know what that meant, but. Tis the season. It's the Christmas season. And I don't know about you, but I was up the other night kind of all night, and at 2am I'm thinking, oh my goodness, I need to send a gift to my veterinarian and his wife. Oh wow, what am I going to do? And then I remembered there's this great picture of the two of us on the ranch when we were dealing with a snake. Believe it or not, I thought, I can have that framed by ARA frames 2am I can do it anytime. So to add photos to an aura frame, just download the app and connect to WI Fi. You can add unlimited amount of photos and videos at any time, even at 2am and you can personalize your gift and add a message before it arrives. And it even comes in a premium gift box free of charge. You know you can't wrap togetherness, but you can frame it. And for a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off or as best selling carver mattress frames, which by the way have been named number one by wirecutter by using promo code Northern as in Northern exposure, all caps at checkout Northern. That's Aura A U R A frames.com promo code Northern. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. And support our show, by the way, by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

Joanna Cassidy (32:40)

Jason Disney asked me to do this podcast thing.

Rob Morrow (32:42)

I need some advice. You've got to have banger guests.

Joanna Cassidy (32:45)

Walker and Leah, Daniel Deamer, Tim Simons, Adam Coveland.

Rob Morrow (32:49)

You're the one asking the questions. How they better answer?

Janine Turner (32:53)

I don't know anything epic. This season is just a golf quest.

Joanna Cassidy (32:58)

I'm Ari and so Samadry. Welcome to the Percy Jackson and the Olympians official podcast. Available wherever you get your podcasts and watch season two of Percy Jackson streaming now on Disney and Hulu. Learn more@disneyplus.com what's on? Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us.

Janine Turner (33:19)

At age 13 as you do 55.

Joanna Cassidy (33:21)

Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.

Janine Turner (33:31)

It was really interesting as a female, as a woman, and as a, you know, an actress. It was really. And a historian, because I've written a musical that I'm. I have a new performance upcoming about Belva Lockwood, who lived from 1830 to 1917. But to kind of that dichotomy of, I am completely strong. I'm out here in the middle of nowhere. I am a survivor. But I realize what it's gonna take to surv, and I need a companion. You know, it. It's just interesting because I think some of us think, oh, you know, if you're a strong woman, you're completely independent, you know, you don't need anybody for anything. And yet she realized in order to. To survive. I mean, I can't imagine living in a cabin out there in the middle of nowhere like that in Alaska without someone to be with you. I think you would just go insane.

Joanna Cassidy (34:18)

Wouldn't work for me sometimes. You could go fishing every day or hunting or whatever, you know, join up with the wolves. I. I don't know. I. I think you. I think you'd have to become really some other kind of human to do something like that.

Janine Turner (34:36)

So it's. It's a real throwback to the. To the pioneer days that in order to survive, you have to move on and have somebody with you, because you would go out of your mind, I think. I mean, even Adam in our show, the chef Adam, who lives in the middle of nowhere with his bare feet, he has Eve, you know, he has Eve. He has someone else with him. So I. I think that. That, that was really interesting. And you played it so well, right? You played in such a way that it wasn't crampy. It was. It was just sort of kind of fun and innocent, and it based kind of rooted in. In kind of that Outback, Alaska type of thing.

Joanna Cassidy (35:10)

You just.

Janine Turner (35:11)

And with that little bit of humor, too. I thought you did a marvelous job with it.

Rob Morrow (35:14)

There was also a great. You know, the score. It was kind of this John Williams like, score.

Janine Turner (35:19)

Aaron Copeland. It was very Aaron Copeland, actually.

Rob Morrow (35:22)

It was very John. It was like the Cowboys, you know, it was more than it was. It was. It had that John Williams kind of melodic ups and downs and. And landscape. It felt like landscape.

Janine Turner (35:34)

But then they bring in Willie Nelson at the End.

Rob Morrow (35:37)

That was such a cool sequence. I wonder. I have a feeling that that was done in post, that it wasn't planned. My. My guess is that the show originally ended on Chris's great monologue where he reads the Jack London again. But there was something.

Joanna Cassidy (35:53)

That's how it was. Yeah.

Rob Morrow (35:55)

Yeah. There's something so cool about the way they cut that with the music, with the Willy song. And it was unusual for Northern Exposure.

Janine Turner (36:04)

My dad's favorite song is Angels Fly Too Close to the Ground or An angel who Flies Too Close to the Ground by Willie Nelson.

Joanna Cassidy (36:11)

Oh, yeah.

Rob Morrow (36:12)

Great song.

Janine Turner (36:13)

So it was kind of cool to bring in Willie Nelson. I. I thought that was a. An interesting. Can I bring in a little trivia thing here?

Rob Morrow (36:20)

Sure.

Janine Turner (36:20)

You ready? Okay. John Corbett cut his hair in Democracy in America, which was the episode before this episode. And yet in this episode, his hair is long. So they must. This must have been filmed before Democracy in America.

Rob Morrow (36:36)

How interesting, right?

Janine Turner (36:38)

In an episode right before this one, Joanna, it was Democracy in America, and he comes in all disheveled, but he cuts his hair really short. And yet in this episode, his hair's long again. I'm like, wait, that's funny.

Rob Morrow (36:49)

That's such a good point. Now I'm so curious. But, you know, I remember there were. They. They used to shift episodes around because they thought they played better or there was a. What they call sweep weeks or something, you know, where they'd be judging the ratings, and so they probably flipped it around. I remember Corbett shaving his head in the middle of an episode.

Joanna Cassidy (37:13)

Oh, dear. Did he do that on purpose or did he.

Rob Morrow (37:16)

Yeah, he did it on purpose because he was crazy. I mean, sweet as, but he was a little nutty. And they were. They were. They. He walked in on that day, on that Monday, because he went home on Friday with her to hear. And he showed up on Monday with a crew cut, and he just. And everyone was like, what?

Joanna Cassidy (37:33)

I. I like those guys. I like those guys a lot. Barry was fun because we talked. I didn't realize he was such a horseman. That he was a. That he was like a champion cutter and I guess that's what you call it, but that he does it. But that was pretty fascinating to me.

Rob Morrow (37:51)

Yeah, he was. He was all about horses. He used to show up to the studio on a horse. I guess Janine might have to.

Janine Turner (37:58)

Yeah, he. He and I had horses. Horses and spurs and pickup trucks and trailers and. But we're both from Texas, so we were like the. The Texans there showing up for the wild West. I mean, my very first car with Northern Exposure was picked up. I owned nothing. I mean, I was in New York City. I had a little, like, tinker toy couch or something. And then I finally, after Northern Exposure was pick up for 50 episodes, and that would have been the season, I purchased a house and I finally had. I remember I had a bed. Like, oh, I have my own bed. And then I had a washer and dryer. I had my own washer and dryer. But then I bought a pickup truck, you know, and. And a trailer and a horse.

Rob Morrow (38:32)

I remember that truck. You showed up. It was so big.

Joanna Cassidy (38:36)

Yeah.

Rob Morrow (38:37)

What was that truck? It was a.

Janine Turner (38:39)

My truck. It was a gmc. It was a gmc.

Joanna Cassidy (38:43)

And it was.

Janine Turner (38:43)

It was. It was like specially made with, like, pink leather seats or like a rose leather.

Rob Morrow (38:48)

You know, What I noticed, though, is that this was kind of the beginning of the show, getting product placement, because that. I don't know what it is. Is it a Ford or Chevy that Maurice is driving? When they go. When they drive out and they have the trailer hitch with the horses, It's a green. It's a Eddie Bauer version. It's like a special limited edition. And I remember thinking when they shot it, it was all clean and pretty. And I was like, you can't keep a car this clean and pretty in Alaska.

Janine Turner (39:18)

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joanna Cassidy (39:19)

Not for a second. No, no.

Janine Turner (39:21)

Talk about that little white horse. I felt sorry for that little white horse having to carry that huge load behind it. And I could tell that it was. You know, Rob and I have a pet peeve. I don't know about you, where you see people carrying luggage or groceries or coffee and there's nothing in it. You can tell there's nothing in it. But I really. It really seemed to me that those horses were really. That white horse especially was really pulling something heavy because it seemed to be kind of.

Joanna Cassidy (39:46)

That was a load. It really was a load. I mean, I, I.

Janine Turner (39:51)

Through the snow.

Joanna Cassidy (39:52)

I guess people can get away with things because they're out in the wilderness. But I'm thinking to myself that's.

Rob Morrow (40:00)

It's a lot, you know, watching the show, Janine, I was thinking. I kept wishing for more wide shots. I don't think there were enough wide shots. And I think maybe Matt was a little scared. You know, directors are scared. Used to be scared of that in tv. But there was such great vistas that weren't captured. You know, they were occasionally. But they were mainly establishing shots. I wish they had shown.

Joanna Cassidy (40:25)

I agree with you, because he could have been way back. It almost would have been a wolf's point of view. And I kept thinking myself, oh, man, this is, this is the show. You can come in later on, but this is your show. It's so beautiful.

Rob Morrow (40:44)

We were usually out two days out of eight on. On location in the rest in stages, but I wouldn't be surprised if you have four or five days on that.

Joanna Cassidy (40:52)

Yeah, we just, we just got through it. We got through it, but it was like I say it was. It was fun. It was a. It was a challenging adventure.

Janine Turner (41:03)

Something a little. A little bit different. Talk to us about your upcoming. Your movie. Talk to us about Killing f. Faith. What's that about?

Joanna Cassidy (41:12)

It's a western horror movie and it's about people. It's about a doctor. It's Guy Pierce.

Rob Morrow (41:22)

Oh, he's great. Oh yeah, I've heard good things about this.

Joanna Cassidy (41:25)

Yep. Bill. Bill Pullman, Wanda Dewise. We shot it in New Mexico and we have a little girl in the movie who's. She's something else.

Janine Turner (41:41)

And.

Joanna Cassidy (41:43)

It'S about a doctor who. Anyway, the little girl has special powers.

Rob Morrow (41:48)

Who directed that?

Joanna Cassidy (41:49)

That was Ned Crowley, right?

Rob Morrow (41:51)

Yeah. I feel like I was, I think, chatting him up somewhere recently. Yeah, that's good for reminding me. I want to see that.

Joanna Cassidy (41:59)

It's quite a ride. It's a. It's a good ride.

Janine Turner (42:02)

Sounds it.

Joanna Cassidy (42:03)

I think I got a couple descriptions from some critics and. Good to see Joanna Cassidy playing such a weird, extreme character. What else?

Janine Turner (42:20)

What was your character?

Joanna Cassidy (42:21)

A woman, actually. A rather stately woman who had. Her husband died. They sold their belongings and in the day, what you did was you. You went on the gold trip, if you were. I mean, and they, she and her son, the wife and the child, along with. I think it was either 8 or 12 other wagons get attacked by Indians and white people, white guys who are like horrible, horrible. And my character describes what happens to men when they're scalped, which is really not a pleasant thing. But I loved doing that movie. We got it done during the strike due to certain circumstances and we were lucky we got to do it. So it was kind of a rushed project, but it came out really well.

Janine Turner (43:38)

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Commercial Narrator 1 (44:08)

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Rob Morrow (44:41)

I wonder, you know, I'm just trying to come back to the show a little bit it. Just because I know the audience likes to hear about it. But I wonder, Janine, what do you think about how they came up with the. The Jack London stuff to be read and, and how that parallels the story, you know, of Maurice and Holling?

Joanna Cassidy (44:59)

Well, I have.

Janine Turner (44:59)

I have a funny story about. My grandmother would always give my brother the book Call of the Wild every Christmas. Oh, every Christmas, she's like, here is a new book. It's. And he would go, oh, the Call of the Wild. It's like, you don't have that, do you? Oh, no. She was always giving him the call of the Wild. Well, you know, I. I think that as. As Joanna were and I were just speaking, it. It's. It's the survival in the middle of nowhere, whether you're an animal or whether you're a human. It's like, how are you going to survive? And how sometimes. Oh, my gosh, I saw the greatest Instagram little clip. It was of a. A lion, a lion and a lioness. That's what you call the female lion, right? The. The lion and the lioness and the fought. The lion was with the little puppy, the little baby lion, and he whacked the little baby.

Joanna Cassidy (45:53)

I saw this. I love that. I love this clip. I love it.

Janine Turner (45:58)

It was amazing. And then you see the mother walk up to that lion and look right at him, like, eye to eye and talking to him. And then she takes her paw and whacks him, you know, and he doesn't do anything. He just, like, sits there. And it was so interesting to me. And I think that Rob, to answer your question, there's this parallel, you know, with all the animals I have and longhorns and cows and horses and dogs and cats. You know, we just call them people in fur. You know what I mean? So the Call of the Wild is the call of the wild. And the characters, Joanna's character lived in the wild, and Maurice and. And Column were out there trying to do homage to the wild. And I think that there was a great parallel to that.

Rob Morrow (46:42)

Yeah, exactly. That harsh environment. Right. It kind of mirrored the journey, the forcing, the. The conflict of, you know, of memory and mortality and. And ending of friendships and all in this classic Western motif.

Joanna Cassidy (46:59)

Well, it also was very Robert Redford like, too.

Rob Morrow (47:04)

Yeah. Jeremiah Johnson. There was that.

Joanna Cassidy (47:07)

Yeah. Yep.

Rob Morrow (47:08)

I love that movie.

Joanna Cassidy (47:10)

Your life becomes about the sound of snow and wind going through the trees and where your next step is going to be. So you don't step into a bear trap. I mean, how do you. How do you become so acutely aware of your circumstances that. Because you have to take care of yourself.

Rob Morrow (47:33)

And also that thing with male bonding, you know, the. Between Holling and. And Maurice. It's. It's. It's profound the way they kind of come together on this journey to honor, you know, their friend, you know, to keep a promise that they wanted to be buried at. Dead. What is it? Dead end point or no Man's Land? No, Man's Point.

Joanna Cassidy (47:54)

I love that part of it, too. That. That meant a lot to me because that's. That. That kind of. Of friendship and loyalty is. Has always been a thing in my life. And. And sticking around with people for many, many, many years. And. And if you make a promise, you gotta keep it.

Rob Morrow (48:12)

But also, they fa. They fail, if you remember. Right. They don't. They don't. And they. And it's so. And it. But they don't fail. I mean, they really succeed. I mean, but they did not fulfill the actual literalness of the problem.

Joanna Cassidy (48:26)

Their intention was.

Rob Morrow (48:28)

Their intention was. And they were beaten down. I mean, they were. You know, that was.

Janine Turner (48:32)

They.

Rob Morrow (48:32)

It took a toll on them.

Janine Turner (48:34)

Well, especially down that hill. And it would have been interesting to have seen maybe a little bit of post falling down the hill. Like, maybe their clothes are ripped, their hair is ripped, their skin is ripped, their bones are ripped. And that would have been the motivating factor of. We cannot go any further because we just fell down this cliff.

Rob Morrow (48:56)

It's a good point, but there's a little of it. When you see Maurice has got this black eye, you know, from the fight.

Janine Turner (49:01)

Well, that's from the bar fight. Yeah.

Rob Morrow (49:02)

That's a big fight they have in there.

Joanna Cassidy (49:05)

Yeah.

Janine Turner (49:05)

Column had a great moment. A great. And, you know, I think it was hard for Column and Barry. Those type of scenes are difficult when you're recalling and telling stories. Well, you're not actually having a relationship with the fellow actor. You're having to kind of tell a story.

Rob Morrow (49:21)

You're right, because it's a lot about memory. Right, right.

Janine Turner (49:24)

And the screenwriting and all the screenwriting I've done, and all of us have done it. It's like, show the story, don't tell the story. And in this particular one, they were telling the story. And that's hard. That's act. That's. That type of acting is really difficult. And I thought. I thought they both did it brilliantly because they're such wonderful, wonderful actors. But. But I. I do. I do. I did think about the fact that they didn't even, you know, they didn't achieve their goal of actually burying them. But also, what was the famous Tommy Western that CBS did?

Rob Morrow (49:55)

Lonesome Dove.

Janine Turner (49:56)

Lonesome Dove, yes. And it was all about burying his friend in Texas. Getting him back to bury him in Texas. So it had a lot of Lonesome.

Rob Morrow (50:06)

Dove that definitely was. Influenced this. This story for sure.

Joanna Cassidy (50:10)

But, I mean, talk about survival. Look. Look at the two of you are together here doing a podcast and talking about, you know, bringing up memories. I think it's really cool that you're doing this because it was a very fabulous show and it has. Has its following. And so I think it's great. It's really great.

Rob Morrow (50:31)

It's been fun. It's an interesting thing going back and looking at, you know, work from the past because you don't often do it. Most of us do not go back and watch stuff, but we are. Janine and I have been watching, you know, these episodes every week, and so. And. And you have the objectivity that you didn't have. You know, we talk about how we were. So, you know, we're all narcissists on level. And so when we were doing the show, it was all about me, me, me, what am I doing? What am I doing? And now you watch the other people and you appreciate it, and you appreciate the. The artistry and the storytelling. And what I'm starting to get a lot of lately is just how diverse these stories were. You know, last week we did Democracy in America, which really was kind of a granular exploration of the mechanic mech mechanisms of democracy. And this one is about, you know, man and nature. It's. There was a big canvas they were. They were working with.

Janine Turner (51:29)

Well, because they could.

Rob Morrow (51:31)

Because they could. Yeah, I did write down. Just. I was thinking about, you know, what Janine was saying about your character and just wanting a man. But, you know, that just the way she was so unabashed in it. Like, she said. She. She looked at Holland and said, you gotta. You gotta find behind on you There's. And then she said to. I guess she said to him to finish it off because he was kind of rejecting her. And she said about. He was kind of saying, you know, I've got Shelly. I'm, you know, I'm with Shelly. And. And you were. You said, well, a seasoned sled slide slides swifter than a green one.

Janine Turner (52:16)

Was that line a difficult line to say? I thought that line was a tongue twister.

Joanna Cassidy (52:21)

Right. That was. That was crazy. I. I think I goofed a couple times on that one.

Janine Turner (52:27)

That's hard to say. A seasoned slide is what, Rob?

Rob Morrow (52:30)

A season slide. A season sled slides swifter than a green one.

Joanna Cassidy (52:38)

Oh, my God. Seasoned sled slides swifter than a green one. Right.

Rob Morrow (52:44)

Can you save a little faster?

Joanna Cassidy (52:46)

No, no, I. I was like, God damn it.

Rob Morrow (52:48)

I'm just saying, you know, that's. That's the. That's the direction they always give. It's too.

Janine Turner (52:52)

Faster, faster, slower, move the scene along. But. But it just a little. A little behind the scenes. I always have had a problem with my S's. When I was in first grade, I couldn't say ship. I said sip for some reason. So they sent me off to speech therapy. And then they said, put your finger in front of your mouth and blow out and say ship. Ship. And I'm like, okay, ship. So I learned how to do it right, but I've always had a problem with my S's. So if there are a bunch of S's, like Sally went to the sea, sure. I have to really think about it with all my S's put together. So that would have been a difficult one for me.

Joanna Cassidy (53:29)

Joanna. Okay, take a 12.

Janine Turner (53:38)

So, so true. So true. Well, look at you. You're absolutely gorgeous and still acting and doing all these amazing works. And you're. You're. It's so much fun to see you. And I'm glad we. We have our number. We can exchange. We've exchanged numbers, and we can exchange stories and send cards and keep in touch. I think that's been one of the greatest things, right, Rob, about this. This, you know, I'll tell a little bit of a sidebar, but it's been fascinating to me to reconnect with the co stars and how you just feel an affinity. Because when you share something like this, it's because you and I were in circle deceit together too, you know? But when you. When you share something like this together, it never really goes away. And I've had long talks with the co stars and whatnot, and it's been 30 years and it's like it was yesterday. So it's been very special to reconnect with with you especially. But writers and directors and our former co stars, because there's a bond that happens on the set. So maybe we can talk about that for just a little bit as we head out here. But the bond that we all have, especially, you know, Joanna, we weren't in scenes with you in this, but I mean, when you go out and have to survive in the. I mean, you're not surviving like real pioneers would, but you're still having to survive. Like when I filmed Cliffhanger, you know, you have to survive these things.

Rob Morrow (54:58)

Things.

Janine Turner (54:58)

There's a bond. Or even in New York City, when I was modeling in New York City or acting in New York City, you just had this bond because you're trying to survive New York City. You want to talk about that bond that you have with.

Joanna Cassidy (55:08)

I think you're right. I think it's very, you know, we get very close immediately. Actors too, because we're putting all our cards on the table. We need to be vulnerable to each other. It's not like trying to establish a relationship. You're instantly there and you've got to have what you have. If you've been best friends for 30 years, you gotta have it. It's gotta be there. So you do that. That is saved. There's a part of that that's saved in your brain. It's just a chip that, like you were saying, never goes away.

Rob Morrow (55:44)

The journey that the, you know, that you go through, that you guys went through as the characters was, you know, analogous to you as actors. I mean, that's fascinating. It's always fascinating to me. You're, you're taking this journey in the story, but you're also taking a journey as actors. You're going to this place. You're really there. You know, you don't, you don't have to fake it. You're not on a sound stage. You're really there. And so as you, as to your guys point, it does bring you together because you're going through it together. You're, you're, you're lifting that body and you're putting it on the thing together. So you're experiencing what the characters are experiencing in the same environment.

Janine Turner (56:26)

It plays with your mind. It really plays with your mind. I think I'm like a sensory actor. So I recall whatever I had in my mind that might correlate with this, you know, because as you say, Joanna, you arrive, you know, on day one, you might have a love scene, or you may have the most intimate scene, and you've got to find a way to do that so that kind of connects in your brain with the Freudian thing and then this thing and then all the experience that you had together. And, like, if you and I saw each other, saw each other on the street, we'd be like, oh, my God, you know, even though it's been 30 years, or I've seen John Lithgow quite often and we were in Cliffhanger together. And you just don't forget the experiences that you have on. On the sets. I think because of. See, I. I run a foundation as well, and that's a completely different experience. You know, it's. People aren't used to an emotional actress.

Joanna Cassidy (57:15)

On the board. You know what I mean?

Janine Turner (57:18)

But it's a completely different thing. You're not supposed to show. You're supposed to remain like.

Joanna Cassidy (57:23)

But.

Janine Turner (57:23)

But as actors, we're taught to have everything at our fingertips at the moment they say, action. And so it's a rawness of spirit.

Joanna Cassidy (57:31)

Gotta have it. You gotta have it. Yeah. I mean, producers are looking at their watch. You got to get there. So that's. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. It's a blessing that we get in our lives as actors, that we get to share this part of ourselves and live these experiences.

Rob Morrow (57:51)

I think that's a good place to wind it up, thinking as a producer.

Janine Turner (57:57)

Well, Joanna, thank you for coming on. What a joy to see you.

Joanna Cassidy (58:02)

Really wonderful to see you both. You look. Both look really beautiful and well and happy, and I'm. It's my pleasure.

Rob Morrow (58:09)

Yeah. Thank you so much for coming. I know audiences are going to love seeing you, and you do look great, and I'm glad you're working.

Janine Turner (58:14)

You look amazing. Oh, my gosh. If I could only look as wonderful as you at age. You know, it's amazing. You're amazing. So thank. Thank you for coming on. I look forward to seeing your future movies and keeping in touch and. Okay, so we are. We are wrapping this episode, and we look forward to seeing you next week with o' Connell and Fleischman.

Rob Morrow (58:37)

Actually, should. I think it's probably better to be Fleischman o'.

Janine Turner (58:40)

Connell. Win your dreams, Fleischman.

Joanna Cassidy (58:49)

Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

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Wil Wheaton (59:39)

Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own bestsel best selling memoir Still Just a Geek When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories. And I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it, so I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up where he left off and to my delight he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love, pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine, Lightspeed on Spec, and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Storytime with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me.