S3E16: "Lost and Found" with Jim Dunlap

Summary

Northern Disclosure – S3E16: “Lost and Found” with Jim Dunlap

Northern Exposure Rewatch Podcast with Rob Morrow, Janine Turner, and special guest Jim Dunlap
Episode Release: December 23, 2025

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Overview of the Episode

This installment of Northern Disclosure reunites hosts Rob Morrow and Janine Turner—beloved as Joel Fleischman and Maggie O’Connell in the 1990s classic Northern Exposure—to revisit Season 3, Episode 16, “Lost and Found.” They fondly dissect behind-the-scenes details, character development, and the episode’s themes, with special guest Jim Dunlap, the series’ longtime payroll accountant. The episode is filled with warm anecdotes, reflections on television production, and the enduring magic of Cicely, Alaska.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• A deep dive into “Lost and Found”—discussing its narrative, performances, and production intricacies.
• Reflecting on the experience of working on Northern Exposure: camaraderie, set life, and creative process.
• Exploring the joys, challenges, and personal growth for both cast and crew.
• Celebrating the memory and contributions of cast, crew, and guest stars, like Valerie Mahaffey and Noble Willingham.
• Pulling back the curtain on TV production realities and the importance of every crew member—including unsung heroes like Jim Dunlap.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Getting in the Holiday Spirit & Show Logistics

• [01:09–02:52] Rob and Janine open with candid, humorous banter about holiday preparations and the unique rhythm of working actors’ lives during this season.
• [04:04–04:36] Brief anxiety is expressed over Northern Exposure possibly disappearing from streaming services, highlighting issues of media availability and legacy.

2. Analyzing “Lost and Found”

• [03:53–05:17] Both hosts agree it’s a “solid” episode, classic in its tone, direction (by Steve Robeman), and writing (Diane and Andy Schneider-Froloff).
• [05:17–06:03] Character Development — Janine and Rob discuss how by this point, their performances felt effortless, and their characters’ dynamic was well established:

  “You have a kind of a balance of comedy and drama. It's relaxed. You're in the pocket as we musicians say.” — Rob Morrow (05:17)

• [06:27–06:54] The group photo finale is remembered as a genuine, laughter-filled moment, emblematic of the show’s camaraderie.
• [07:17–07:58] They reflect on Valerie Mahaffey’s (Eve) memorable work and on the immortality of screen roles:

  “A part of us lives forever.” – Rob Morrow (07:17)

• [08:15–08:44] Rob’s Plot Recap:

  “When Joel complains of ghost-like rumblings… Maggie thinks it could be the loner who committed suicide in it. Meanwhile, Eve wants Joel’s help for her ailments, and Maurice is visited by his old Marine colonel who needs to borrow money.” (08:15)

3. Standout Performances and Scenes

• [08:49–09:38] Praises for Noble Willingham (Colonel) and Time Winters (Exorcist). Janine and Rob laugh about comic moments (e.g., kicking out the exorcist).
• [10:02–10:44] Discussion of acting technique and how the writing, though sometimes clipped or rude, was delivered with warmth and nuance built from years in an acting ensemble.

  “That's why we all bring those colors to these crazy things we say.” – Janine Turner (10:44)

4. Welcoming Guest Jim Dunlap

• [11:20–12:19] Introduction of Jim Dunlap, payroll accountant for 102 episodes, and now a documentary producer.
• [13:39–14:23] Jim’s fond memories: Janine’s Christmas parties (“like a White House Christmas”), echoing the family feeling behind the scenes.

5. Behind the Scenes: The World of On-Set Accounting

• [14:53–15:42] Jim explains his on-set role: handling payroll (including per diem cash), budget meetings, and proximity to the action—helping the cast/crew relax and building trust.

  “I paid everyone, so my friends were many, many, many.” – Jim Dunlap (14:56)

• [16:49–17:22] Studio layout and how production spaces and the Ruthanne’s store set interlinked, adding to the immersive quality.

6. Production Details & Craft

• [17:34–19:33] Rob and Janine marvel at set details—the cobweb machine, authentic props, and lighting—crediting craftspersons for helping actors believe in their environment.

  “God is in the details.” – Janine Turner (19:33)

7. Cast and Crew Stories

• [20:07–24:49] Anecdotes about long hours, knitting and relaxing in Dunlap’s office, connections with cast (like John Corbett discovering his mom was Jim’s nurse), and Janine’s beloved dog Lily Claire—even her emergency trip to Texas for a dog hysterectomy.
• [27:38–28:47] Stories of working through illness and injury; Janine remembers filming while suffering a gallbladder attack, echoing the “show must go on” ethos.

8. Television Economics and Working Conditions

• [31:07–33:19] Jim details budgets, crew sizes, and how things grew over the years. Rob recalls fighting for basic crew rights, like proper meals.

  “We had to fight...to make sure they serve second meal to the crew…it was mad.” – Rob Morrow (33:19)

• [34:11–34:27] On the practicality of being an actor:

  “You are trapped there…even if you have four hours between scenes, you’re just a hostage.” – Janine Turner (34:27)

9. Music, Guest Stars, and Cultural Influences

• [39:21–41:30] Celebrating the show’s musical richness (from Benny Goodman to Bobby McFerrin), and stories of famous fans—Mary Chapin Carpenter, Bette Midler, Linda Eder, even Joni Mitchell trying to get a role.
• [43:04–44:54] On keeping the show "timeless": avoiding pop culture references and not naming the sitting U.S. President.

10. The Longevity and Challenges of Series Television

• [46:47–51:29] Jim and Rob share the growing pains as budgets tightened and storylines stretched thin in later seasons:

  “You know a show’s coming to the end when they start nickel and diming.” – Rob Morrow (46:42) “As actors, we start to think, I want to grow…everybody needs to be inspired…If you don’t let that happen, then it becomes stagnant.” – Janine Turner (49:13)

11. Production Milestones & Legacy

• [51:29–53:00] The hosts remember the unprecedented 2-season, 50-episode pickup, moose ice sculptures in the lobby, gifts of (then-cutting-edge) VHS-enabled TV sets, and personal memories.

12. Closing Reflections

• [53:28–56:28] Janine’s humorous “elevator story” about not recognizing now-famous Jack Black, who had an early, subdued guest role.
• [54:53–55:19] Quote highlight:

  “I like the Swiss lemon Maalox. It’s nice. It’s tart. It’s good chilled.” – Valerie Mahaffey as Eve (54:59)

• [56:06–56:28] Heartfelt farewells and gratitude to Jim Dunlap for his kindness and vital presence on the show.

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Notable Quotes and Moments

On the legacy of actors and television

“We’re chasing immortality by being movie screen actors…a part of us lives forever.”
— Rob Morrow [07:17]

Janine on acting and ensemble work

“Because when you’re an acting troupe and you’re in a series for such a long time…you can relax into playing things against type.”
— Janine Turner [10:44]

Jim Dunlap on his showbiz role

“I paid everyone, so my friends were many, many, many.”
— Jim Dunlap [14:56]

The “show must go on”—even in pain

“Anyone who's listening has had gallbladder attacks, knows exactly how painful that is. But I would—I agree with you, Rob…I’ve never missed a day of showbiz work.”
— Janine Turner [30:13–30:31]

The importance of artisan detail

“God is in the details…when people are intricate and really make sure they’re perfect, that’s God in the details.”
— Janine Turner [19:33]

The task of keeping a show fresh

“If you don’t let them experiment…then you do. It does become stagnant…Everybody needs to be inspired.”
— Janine Turner [49:13]

Production struggles and victories

“You know you’re coming to the end when they start nickel and diming.”
— Rob Morrow [46:42]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:53] – Discussion of episode’s overall tone and creative strengths
• [08:15] – Plot summary of "Lost and Found"
• [11:20] – Guest intro: Jim Dunlap
• [14:53] – Jim explains his production role
• [20:07] – Set stories: rituals and relationships
• [27:38] – Wild hours, medical emergencies, and “show must go on” tales
• [31:07–33:19] – Budget realities and production challenges
• [39:21–41:30] – Music and the show’s cultural footprint
• [46:47–49:13] – Waning years and the need for creative growth
• [51:29] – The 50-episode pickup, ice sculptures, and memories
• [54:53] – Favorite lines and writing highlights
• [56:06] – Gratitude and heartfelt goodbyes

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Conclusion: Tone & Takeaway

Warm, candid, and full of the “intricacies” that made Northern Exposure a classic, this episode of Northern Disclosure is more than a rewatch podcast—it’s a reunion of creative souls who helped create a unique TV community. With a mixture of nostalgia, humor, and real talk about the challenges of making beloved TV, both fans and newcomers will walk away with a deeper appreciation of the artistry, labor, and magic behind Cicely, Alaska.

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For fans old and new, this episode isn’t just a holiday walk through “Lost and Found”—it’s a gift of rich storytelling from those who made it happen.

Transcript

[Jeanine Turner]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.

[Rob Morrow]

This episode is brought to you by Casamigos Tequila. What do you bring to a holiday party?

[Jim Dunlap]

Simple.

[Rob Morrow]

A bottle of Casamigos. Because nothing gets the party started like.

[Jim Dunlap]

A Casamigos margarita, which isn't just for summer.

[Rob Morrow]

In fact, it's the perfect pour all year round.

[Jim Dunlap]

Casamigos is the gift that always feels.

[Rob Morrow]

Right, because anything goes with my Casamigos. Please drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigos Spirits Company, White Plains, New York. Casamigos Tequila.

[Jim Dunlap]

40% alcohol by volume.

[Jeanine Turner]

Hello, everybody. I'm Jeanine Turner, and welcome to Northern Disclosure, where Rob Morrow and I walk through every episode of Northern Exposure. Thanks for joining us. Don't forget to hit that little subscribe button and you can listen to us. Or you can also watch this these shows on YouTube and you can subscribe to that, too. Hello, Rob Morrow.

[Rob Morrow]

Hey, Janine. It's so good to see you. Happy holidays.

[Jeanine Turner]

Happy holidays. Yes. So are you in this little festive?

[Rob Morrow]

You do look festive. Are you in the spirit?

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, you know, I keep thinking I'm going to get the spirit. I'm sort of in the spirit. Like, I have the tree yesterday, I was still putting ribbon around the tree. I think the thing about Christmas, it's like, when am I finished doing everything I need to do? And then you feel like you're going to stop and be in the spirit. So, I don't know, really religiously, probably. Yes. But as far as packages are concerned, all the wrapping paper still in the back of my car. What about you?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, you know, I feel pretty good. I feel like I've gotten a fair amount of gifts all done and ready to go, and. And I, you know, I love the holidays. I just love when it gets quiet and things shut down and, you know, we wear our pajamas for multiple days and watch screeners and, and. And get fat.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. And you don't have to worry that you're missing out on work. I think that since we all live at home, many of us work out of home now, and we've zoom and emails. It's like a constant. You don't ever feel like you have. You can unplug. And I think that's what the holidays are. You can unplug a little bit.

[Rob Morrow]

Right, right. And. And what else? So this shows. This wasn't. This was a kind of. I, I see this, this episode, which is called Lost and found, season three, episode 17. Although I think Amazon prime has it as 15. I get confused about that.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, 16. They have it at Prime Video has it as 16.

[Rob Morrow]

So this was written by our friends Diane and Andy Schneider Froloff. It was directed by Steve. Steve Robeman, but I don't quite remember.

[Jeanine Turner]

I know, but it was. I really, really liked the direction, the, the directing. I was. I liked it a lot.

[Rob Morrow]

It was lovely. Yeah, it was really. It was. There's. There's some really nice touches, but it, but it feels to me more like a programmer, you know, it's not like a. It's not a standout episode, although they're all good. But it just was, you know, it just seemed like a standard, solid Northern Exposure episode.

[Jeanine Turner]

But I think solid would be my word, too. And there's. Is this okay? So this is. Yeah. Is it the end of this season when we did Sicily? The end of this season with Sicily. Right.

[Rob Morrow]

I'm not sure. By the way, I got a notice on my Amazon prime saying that the fourth season is going to be disappearing soon.

[Jeanine Turner]

What?

[Rob Morrow]

Yep, that's what it said today when I was watching the episode. It said for, you know, season four will be disappearing from Amazon prime soon. So get busy, Janine. That's your department.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. Okay. I gotta call those Universal execs again. That's.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, just find out. I mean, the license may have run out or I don't know whether they're going to renew or what.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay, I'll look into that. Well, right. Okay. That's a bit of a zinger. Something else to add to my list before Christmas.

[Rob Morrow]

There you go.

[Jeanine Turner]

A quick call. I thought the episode was solid as well. And what I feel. You talk about this a lot, but I think from. With my character and for me personally, I really have found a groove, you know, I think that I, you know, my hair is growing out a little bit. The costumes are more flattering. It's just like, I think I kind of jet in my sort of look and in the energy and the kind of. The kind of relaxed quality.

[Rob Morrow]

I agree. I know exactly what you're saying. I think, you know, I think. And you know, you, you, you have A. You have a kind of a balance of comedy and drama. It's relaxed. It's. You're in the pocket as. As we musicians say, you know, it. It. The. The characters fit you. And our relationship is really clear. You. Moments, you know, you have these little moments where you just kind of like, catch my. You. You look at me and, you know, you can just see all the thoughts going through your head about, you know, either the. The things where. Where it's positive or negative. It's always. It's always. There's such specificity to the Fleischman o' Connell relationship.

[Jeanine Turner]

I really. And you, too. The same thing. You seem very relaxed, but. But your performances are intricate and colorful and subtle. Relax. I mean, relax. And whenever I talk to kids about acting, I always say the first thing you have to do is relax.

[Rob Morrow]

Relaxing is key.

[Jeanine Turner]

It's key. But anywho, I also thought. I thought our. Our part was fun. I love that photograph at the end and the music.

[Rob Morrow]

So I remember shooting that. It was so much. I remember that. Right.

[Jeanine Turner]

We say reminder, too. I did, too.

[Rob Morrow]

I think. I think if. If I remember correctly, it was a photo. And then, as I always do in group photos, I tell every. I always say, okay, let's do one where we all just go crazy. And I have a feeling that's what happened because we just were. The laugh, the look on our faces is genuine, you know, so it's a. It's a. And we probably all have that photo somewhere. I'm sure they gave it to us.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't actually. I do not have that photo.

[Rob Morrow]

No, I must. I must.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't have it. And I thought, once again, God bless her who's passed away. It's just. Isn't it something. As we talked about this before, you know, that people have passed away and we can still look at them and they're, like, tangible. Like you want to touch them. And Valerie Mahaffey was just wonderful.

[Rob Morrow]

So great. I mean, such a lovely performance, such a lovely person, such a lovely actor. And. Yeah, you know, I think in a certain level, I don't ever consciously think about this, but we're chasing immortality by being movie screen actors. You know, we do a part of us lives forever. And, you know, and as the Native Americans used to say, that the, you know, a picture captures you, steals your soul or captures it. So if we. If we can. If we accept that as a given that some of us ends up in these images, you know, part of us lives forever. That's, I think, why we, you know, you Know, the ego of us. Loves. Loves it, you know.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. Well, except Amazon might be taking it away.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, right.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't know.

[Rob Morrow]

They're not come back. They will not be still there.

[Jeanine Turner]

Keep listening to the show. We're gonna. We're gonna. Yeah, that's true. It's all. It's on DVDs. If people keep their. It'll still be on. I don't know what that was about. I'm sure that was an error.

[Rob Morrow]

So here's the. I'll give you the plot summary of Lost and Found again is the title. When Joel complains of ghost. Like rumblings in the house, Maggie thinks it could be the loner who committed suicide in it decades before. So she orders an exorcism of the house. Meanwhile, the hyp. Hypochondriac Eve wants Joel's help for her various ailments. And Maurice is visited by his old Marine colonel who needs to borrow money.

[Jeanine Turner]

And the Marine colonel was excellent, too. Was it Time. What was his name? Time.

[Rob Morrow]

That was Noble Willingham, as.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, he was. I thought he was excellent. I thought. I thought there were the intricacies that we're talking about. I thought Maurice had them too.

[Rob Morrow]

You're right. The history that he had with that character and the way he admired him and. And yeah, there was. There was a lot of great performances. And I think, again, speaking to what you were saying before, it's like he's got. You know, Maurice is so clear and. And effortless at this point in. In the way Barry played him. The time Winters was Emile, who was the exorcist. Exorcism guy.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh. At the time, Winters was the. The exorcist. That was so funny. Like, I've broken with the church. They just, you know, they don't take evil seriously. And you took all of his stuff as he walks out the door and he's trying to grab. He's like trying to grab his. He was really. He was a good actor.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. Because I love that moment when you go out to get the firewood and I kick him out of the house and. And. And he come. You come back and you're like, where'd he go? And I'm like, I don't know.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't know.

[Rob Morrow]

I can only. I could just imagine in the writers going, like, I don't know what to say. What should we say? We'll just say, I don't know. And then you, you know, you buy it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

I'm sure the next scene would have been. What do you Mean, you don't know.

[Jeanine Turner]

They were. Probably wanted to go out just on your face, you know, looking shocked. And I love it that, you know, you said, I don't know, it was. It was really wonderful. And the scene, I remember Joshua Brand would say, what we write on the paper sometimes on, on the, you know, in the script, if you were to read that, you would think, how could they possibly say things like that? That, that was. That's just so horrible and so rude. But the way, you know, we deliver it, it transcends it. And I thought our little scene in the bar was a perfect example of that, where I'm saying, you know, nobody likes you, you don't have any friends, and, you know, if something happened to you, we would just kind of move on. And. And, you know, what's his name? You know, Maurice would find a new doctor.

[Rob Morrow]

Mariece would buy a new doctor.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, buy a new doctor. He'd just buy a new doctor. And I thought, you know, how would I deliver that today if I were to receive that? And I think that's why when you're an acting troupe and you're in a series for such a long time, lengthy period of time, you can relax into playing things against type. Because if you read that, you would say, well, you know, you don't have any friends. Da, da, da. And Maurice, just going to buy another doctor. But that's not how I played it. You know, it was very sort of, you know, it's. It's like, you don't have any friends, and Maurice just get another. It was so matter of fact. And I thought that that's why we all bring those colors to these crazy.

[Rob Morrow]

Things we say, well, let's bring out our guest.

[Jeanine Turner]

All right, Our guest today. Drum roll, please. It's so much fun to see people that we haven't seen in about 30 years is the. The incomparable Jim Dunlap. And I'm going to tell you a little bit about him. For over 35 years, Jim Dunlap has been working on films and television in the finance world. He was the payroll accountant for all but the first eight episodes of Northern Exposure. So, like 102 he did with us. He worked on such films as the Wolverine, X Men, First Class, Best in Show, and the two of the Hunger Game films. My daughter would love you, Jim. His last project, sinners, is up for several Golden Globes this year, including Best Picture. He retired last year from the finance world. Lives closer to me now, by the way, and is now producing documentaries, one of which will Be a special doc about his friendship with screen legend Doris Day. I was just listening to Doris Day's Christmas Song. Hi, Jim.

[Jim Dunlap]

Hello.

[Jeanine Turner]

Hello.

[Rob Morrow]

Hey, Jim.

[Jim Dunlap]

Hello, Rob. Hello, everybody. How you doing?

[Rob Morrow]

So glad to see you here. I get to kind of converse with you a little as the one. The great thing about social media, there's a lot of bad things, but the great thing is keeping in touch. And I see Jim on there every once in a while, and he'll acknowledge something or I'll acknowledge something, and it just. That continuity of the past, which I guess is what this episode deals with, is what we get to do with social media. So I know you're doing well, and you're coming to us from Kansas.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah. Right in the center of North America, about 20 miles from the geographical center. So there you go. And it was 12 degrees last night, so. Oh, man, I felt like I was in Washington State again. So. Yeah, it was great.

[Jeanine Turner]

My mother lived in. Well, I was born in Nebraska, so. My mother always talks about Nebraska and how cold it was. She's from Texas. It was cold all year and the snow never melted.

[Jim Dunlap]

It is cold.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, happy holidays to you and your family and everyone.

[Jim Dunlap]

Thank you.

[Rob Morrow]

Thank you for coming on with us.

[Jim Dunlap]

Thank you.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, I was thinking that, you know, all the tea, you always knew exactly. You know, everything. Some stuff we want you to share and some we don't. Probably right, Janine.

[Jeanine Turner]

Right.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah. Before we get started, I want to say something real quick because it's Christmas week. My favorite memories of this show was Janine's Christmas parties. Every year, her mother would come up a couple weeks before and they'd throw them together. Like, it was like. It was like a White House Christmas. It was just so beautiful there. It really was.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. They were so much fun, weren't they? I got a piano just for those parties. Like, wait, we have to have Christmas carols. Wait, I have to have a piano. And I called. I called the piano company and said, I have to have one. When? Tonight, like today?

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, my God.

[Jeanine Turner]

And then I had my. My uncle come up and dress in elf costumes and pass out, you know, gifts at the door and whatnot. They were fun. I'm glad you remember them, Jim.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Rob Morrow]

We actually had a lot of good parties on the show, I think, over the years, especially the first. Were you there the first year, Jim?

[Jim Dunlap]

No, not the summertime. I came in the winter. Yep.

[Rob Morrow]

Right, right.

[Jeanine Turner]

Second eight.

[Jim Dunlap]

Second eight.

[Jeanine Turner]

And it'd be cool for everyone to understand that, Jim, that Jim was always on the set with us, you were always on. Especially your office was in our. Our, you know, studio, so to speak. In red. You had an office right there. You were there with us.

[Rob Morrow]

Why don't you tell us what you did, what you did for the show?

[Jim Dunlap]

Well, I paid everyone, so my friends were many, many, many.

[Rob Morrow]

My favorite job.

[Jim Dunlap]

And it was great because we had the little staircase from our office that went down to Ruthanne's store, basically. So we were part of it just as much as the people in front of the camera, which was amazing. And every year was just brilliantly amazing. And people were so incredible. And back then, we had 120 crew members. Now you have that in construction, so it's like, you know, it didn't take many. They worked their butts off, but we got it done. It was beautiful. Every time. Every time.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing. So you can. You call. Your title was Production Accountant.

[Jim Dunlap]

Payroll accountant. I just did the payroll part.

[Jeanine Turner]

Now, why do they have you on set? And I'm glad you were. But explain to all of us why they have the payroll accountant on. On set with us.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah. We also paid per diem to the cast and crew, so we had to give them cash every week when they came in. We paid the guest stars. You guys got yours on check. But a lot of people got it in cash, and so we gave them their cash every week. And we just had budget meetings every day. I was part of those. So other than the editors and a few directors and DPs, the studio hires us. We're one of the few people hired by the studio. So we come in early and we're there until the editor's the only one on longer than us. So we're on for the basic. We had a week off every summer is what we had off.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, my God. That's amazing. That's unbelievable. Wow.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

But what were your hours? Were they normal hours or crazy hours.

[Jim Dunlap]

Like ours, to be honest? Now, I could have done three things on that show because the payroll took me a good two days. And so I watched a lot. I learned a lot.

[Rob Morrow]

I remember you coming around the set and just.

[Jim Dunlap]

I befriended a lot of people. And I think it was good to have that camaraderie to, like, you know, bring it down and, you know, have people relax. I mean, lalaine would come up to her office, just sit and relax half the day because she come up with a staircase and just sit down across from us. And she sat there and knitted. You know, that's what she did on her off time. And it was kind of cool. Yeah, it's kind of fun.

[Rob Morrow]

You know, it's crazy. I have no. I don't think I ever went upstairs in Ruth. In this. You're talking about the location Ruth store?

[Jim Dunlap]

Oh, no, no. We were upstairs, but the little staircase went from my office down to Ruthanne's store.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, on the. On the set or on location?

[Jim Dunlap]

On the set. On the set.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't even remember Ruth Ann's store on the set.

[Rob Morrow]

No, we had to. Set. We had a stage version. We had a stage version of it, but I don't remember that there was an upstairs. I certainly never went up there. That's funny.

[Jim Dunlap]

I think we were up there and maybe editorial, and that was about it. I mean, everyone. Catherine was downstairs with the costumes, and Woody was down there in the back.

[Rob Morrow]

But wait, what do you mean, editorial? We didn't have editors and.

[Jim Dunlap]

Well, they had people. They had like. Well, they had one guy that kind of transferred everything over to Cindy.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, the transfer.

[Jim Dunlap]

They were the transfer. Yeah, exactly.

[Rob Morrow]

I get it.

[Jim Dunlap]

Right. That's all those upstairs, though. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

Interesting. And. And. And interestingly enough, in this episode, Lost and Found, we go downstairs for the first. And I don't know if the only time, but we go the first. We go downstairs in Ruthanne's store, which was, again, another great set with Woody, that Woody and his. And his merry band of a brilliant cr. Craftsman put together. And I. I do remember shooting in there because I'd never seen this before. They had a cobweb machine, you know, because you see me come down and there's like, these cobwebs everywhere, and I'm going, like, pulling them out of my hair. And they had a. It was like a gun, and they could shoot anywhere in the space and it would leave a stream of cobwebs. It was so. I was so fascinated by that. So each take, they could just add a whole new set of cobwebs, you.

[Jim Dunlap]

Know, I don't know if you know this or not, but Sean, the prop master, used to run down the hall shooting that thing at people and their cowboys are falling off their hands. I was like, yeah. So we had that kind of stuff in the background.

[Jeanine Turner]

We did get a little giddy after, like, the 14th hour for sure. But I did think that set was. I echo you, Rob. That set was really intricate.

[Rob Morrow]

Very intricate.

[Jeanine Turner]

I think just like we did with the acting and I think with every aspect. Accounting, acting, craft, service, food. I mean, everybody gave their. Their all, of course, directors, producers, music, all of it. Because, you know, someone could just kind of throw a set together. Like, you know, it's downstairs. I'm just gonna. But everything that was done was. Was. Well, you know, there's a saying, everyone. When we were on the set, the saying was, God is in the details. Often people now say, the devil's in the details, but I think God is in the details. And it's when p. I love it when people are intricate and really things to make sure they're perfect, that God is in the details. But I think they. Those sets certainly were like that. And I thought Frank lighting was really great on this. Frank's lighting was excellent, too, in this show.

[Rob Morrow]

Absolutely. Because the. The. The details and the intricacy help us, you know, not only does it help the audience, you know, believe they're seeing something, but it helps us perform. You know, you don't have to fake it as much. You just have to react for when the details are there, when the dust is, you know, inside the box and, you know, and the. And the cobwebs are. Are everywhere that deal with it. Makes it easier for us to believe the illusion. So what. Do you have any memories about this episode that come back?

[Jim Dunlap]

This episode? Not so much. But I will say I think this is where you felt really comfortable being in Alaska as Joel. I think this is where you really started to feel okay. And I think that's why you threw the party. I think that was part of the deal there too, I think, by the.

[Rob Morrow]

End of the episode. But it start. Well, it's funny because it starts with him writing this letter to a friend and in New York. And he says. He says that he's. He kind of is. You know, he's not telling the truth. He says, I'm very, very, very, very lucky to be here. But it's. There's. You can tell he doesn't really mean it because he does then say. He goes into the office and Marilyn, you know, he. You know, she. She wants to renew the New Yorker subscription and. And they start to argue whether it should be four years or three years. And she says, four. And he's like. And he literally says, no, you know, I have three years, eight months, 22 days and 15 hours left. You know, so. So I think, to your point, Jim, he does kind of by the end of the show, you know, I mean, there's been. We've discussed this thing, you know, when he gets. When he starts to accept it. And there were beats earlier than this, for sure, but this is, you know, a Real. The opening. You know, I. I love. I love the opening. I love how Fleischman, you know, he's got this. He has. You know, he's a good heart, but he's just got this irascible cover, you know, And. And. And his innate curiosity, you know, redeems him a lot. You know, like, he gets so curious about this guy Jack, you know, Jack's back, you know, this. This. This guy who killed himself in his cabin. And. And for some reason, Joel is fascinated. And at first, it's just. It's fascinated by. Because he. He wants to learn from it, but he's a. You know, he's just a curious guy, which is a great redeeming quality in a character. You know, if you ever have a character that's going to be a pain in the ass if you make them curious, you know, you. Because. Because curiosity is so. Is so important.

[Jeanine Turner]

And, you know, I. In that opening scene, the letter writing was great. It's like, I'm having a wonderful time. And your looks were fabulous, too, Rob. Like, I'm having a wonderful time here. It's. It's dark and it's. You know, whatever. I'm paraphrasing, you know, and it's really dark, and it's. It's dark and. Well, like, it's. You can't hear anything. But I love at the end how you pull that golf club up.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

You know, I thought. I thought that was really great. And by the way, I just looked up Steve Rodman. He married Kathy Baker.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, yeah. He was such a nice guy. I remember now, for sure.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. You remember him now? He married Kathy Baker later, it looks like, in 2003. But she beat me out of the Emmy the year I was nominated.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, did she?

[Jeanine Turner]

I believe so, yeah. Because, you know, we couldn't compete because we're doing these sort of, you know, comedic dramatic things, and then you have another actor against you who's sobbing or crying. And I remember I saw my clip where I'm sort of being confused and whatever. And then I saw her clip and she's sobbing. I'm like, well, there's no way I'm gonna win. It's funny. I didn't know he married Kathy. Kathy Baker. Well, tell us some stories about. Did you ever go on location at all to some of the sets I went up to.

[Jim Dunlap]

I went to Broslyn a few times. Not too much because we were so crazy. We were busy every day, so it was hard to be gone for five hours every day, traveling up and back. So I got up there a few times, but, I mean, we had some amazing. I mean, I remember John Corbett would just lay on his floor, on my floor all day long and just rest between takes. He'd just lay there. And we found out talking one day that he and I were born in the same hospital in Weanley, West Virginia. And then we looked at my birth certificate and his mother was my nurse.

[Rob Morrow]

No way.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So weird we found that out just because he spent so much time in there. Yeah. Yep. True story.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I'm feeling like I missed out because I didn't come knit in your room or lie on your floor in your room.

[Jim Dunlap]

Well, you had a lot going. You had a little puppy and everything. You had to take care of a lot of things. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Lily Claire. Lily Claire was my tiny, tiny little white poodle. And when I. When I moved to LA and my mother was. Was going back and forth because she got divorced from my dad, they married each other three times. Divorce and married. There's three times. But she was living with me. And when she left to go home, I was like, night. I was 19. Well, actually, she left to go home when I was 17, but never when I was 19. They gave me this little poodle because I was by myself in LA. And she lived until I was 34 years old. That's how long I had. Lily Claire. Do you remember Little Eclair Jim?

[Jim Dunlap]

I do. I remember Little Eclair.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Jim Dunlap]

You know what's funny? I Talked to Colleen McCormick the other night, who was the estimator on the show. Do you remember Colleen at all?

[Rob Morrow]

Sure. Yeah.

[Jim Dunlap]

And she said. She said that Eclair had a hysterectomy. Is that right?

[Jeanine Turner]

She did.

[Jim Dunlap]

During the show.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. The funny story about. The funny story about that is I noticed she started whining and crying and. And she just didn't seem right. So I called my vet in Texas, who was kind of a guru vet, and he hadn't been. He'd been my vet for like 20, and he had a little psychic ability, I think. And I called him, I said, what's going on? He goes, what is she doing? I'm like, she's kind of like, like crying out. He goes, is she looking for a toy? I'm like, well, I'm kind of her toy and she's nest up next to me. And he goes, I think she's having pyometra or whatever. Which meant that she needed a hysterectomy. So I got on a plane. I'm like, see Everybody, I'm taking my dog to Texas for her hysterectomy. And I just remember Michael Vittis, who was one of our producers at the time. He's like, do we not have vets in Seattle?

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, I took her.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

For that. But she lived forever. She did, Yep.

[Jim Dunlap]

Wow. Wow.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, how fun. How fun.

[Rob Morrow]

So how did you. How did you end up coming on the show? Do you remember?

[Jim Dunlap]

I can tell you I was November of 1989. No, November of 90. I was wrapping a pilot at Universal and my boss came in and he said, do you want to go to Seattle? We have a show up there. It's going to last a few years, we think. I said, sure. I've never been there. So on New year's Eve on 90, I flew up, didn't know anyone, sat in my hotel the whole night by myself on New Year's Eve, and started the next day in a major snowstorm, prepping for you guys to come in in February. So that's how I got that job. It was amazing. Amazing job. So, yeah, it was really. When the holidays start to feel a.

[Jeanine Turner]

Bit repetitive, reach for a Sprite Winter Spiced Cranberry and put your twist on tradition. A bold cranberry and winter spice flavor Fusion Sprite Winter Spice Cranberry is a refreshing way to shake things up this sipping season and only for a limited time. Sprite obey your thirst. Ford Bluecruise Hands free. Highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel, allowing you to relax and reconnect while also staying in control. Enjoy the drive in blue cruise enabled vehicles like the F150 Explorer and Mustang Mach E available feature on equipped vehicles. Terms apply. Does not replace safe driving. See Ford.com BlueCruise for more details. It's beautiful up in Seattle and I further. I need to check. They've had all those floods, but it's just beautiful. The pine trees, the way it smells. It's a little. It's a little bit like a Shangri La up there. It's especially then because it wasn't very.

[Jim Dunlap]

Crowded yet and you guys work long hours. You worked like 15, 16 hours some days I think I know you did. I remember Peg fell the last day of one season and they had one more shot of the finale. They took her to the er, put a cast on her leg and propped her up on the couch and shot the last C when she came back. Things like that. I mean, those stories.

[Jeanine Turner]

I have a story about that. I was having terrible, terrible pain in My side, like, really, really bad pain. And I walked on set, and I'm bent over from the waist over. I'm just completely bent over. And I walked on set, and they're all like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and, and I said, but I can't, I can't breathe. They just lie down. And so I, I, I, I, I did. I laid down on the, the, the bench of the, the booth in Hollings Bar. And they literally were just panning the camera over me. Just panning the camera. I'm like, no, but you don't understand. I, I really don't feel well. And so finally I called my mother. She started screaming at me, go to the hospital then. And so we did went to the hospital. Turns out I had to have my gallbladder removed.

[Jim Dunlap]

Wow. Right.

[Jeanine Turner]

It was an emergency kind of situation. It was a, kind of a. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

So did that, that must have caused us time, right? Do they have to write you out or something?

[Jim Dunlap]

I didn't get that week off that year, I don't think, because of that. But that's okay. It's all good.

[Jeanine Turner]

Everybody should have had a week off.

[Rob Morrow]

That's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

They, they did. They couldn't prop me up, so they probably just wrote me out.

[Rob Morrow]

It's amazing that, you know, the adage, you know, the show must go so ingrained in us that you, you do, you know, I've done. Even on Northern Exposure, I didn't get sick a lot, but there was certainly a couple times where I had the flu or something. And you show up and give everybody else the flu they get, right. They have a sound blanket, you know, underneath the camera, which is just a big puffy Movers blanket, basically. And I, you know, I remember doing takes, and I would stand up, they would say, they'd roll. I'd be laying down between takes, right? They'd say, roll camera. Speed. And then I'd stand up into the shot, say my lines. They say, cut. And I lay back down, you know, and you get through it somehow because there's no other way to do it. And obviously, if you, you know, there's, there's certainly circumstances where you can't do it. But if it's possible and if it's remotely possible. Even though if you're getting your gallbladder REM show up and you do your scene.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, it's. Well, and I was there. I probably finished. I finished that scene in Anyone who has a gallbladder. Anyone who's listening has had gallbladder attacks, knows exactly how, you know, Painful, that is. But I would. I agree with you, Rob and Jim. You know, I. I don't. I've never missed a day of showbiz work.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, I know. I certainly have. Maybe, maybe. Maybe one or two.

[Jeanine Turner]

But, I mean, I was sick, but I had to show up, Right.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, it's. Yeah. Because it causes such a problem. At least in tv, in the movies, you know, you can get away with it a little more because they can do other stuff. But the TV schedule is just. It's a train and it's going, and you got eight days and you got to finish that episode, and there's no other way to do it.

[Jeanine Turner]

We're really expendable in their minds. Right. That's why the show must go on. It's coming from the producers and they're like, like, gotta get that shot.

[Jim Dunlap]

That's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

Right. Jim, you're budgeting. Speaking of which, talk about the budget of these shows. How many. How much did we spend on each episode? And you said you were in on production meetings about what people would spend.

[Jim Dunlap]

It was. It wasn't a ton of money. It went up every year, though, that's for sure. You know, every year got a little bit longer, more people. You know, the first season was 100 people. The first season I did, and then we were up to like 250 by season five. So they brought more people on. It just. It just got bigger and bigger and bigger, and the demands were higher. What they wanted to be, you know, put together.

[Rob Morrow]

Did you cut. You covered the payroll for la, too?

[Jim Dunlap]

Everybody ever from. From, you know, Elaine's mother to, you know, Mike, Matt and Odella. So it's like. Everybody. Yeah, everybody.

[Jeanine Turner]

Wow.

[Jim Dunlap]

But, you know, one, I have to tell you one time at Christmas time, we wrapped on a Friday, I think was the 19th, and our paychecks were supposed to come back then. Everybody got paychecks. Nothing with direct deposit. And the FedEx was late, so we went out to the highway by the airport in a snowstorm, hanging out paychecks in the interstate right there to get them to the people before they flew home for the holidays.

[Jeanine Turner]

Wow.

[Rob Morrow]

That was one.

[Jim Dunlap]

That was pretty exciting there, too. That was an exciting day.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, there were many times we drove through the, you know, Snoqualmie Pass to get to Rosslyn, where we filmed. And there would be vertigo. I mean, like, you couldn't even see with the swirling snow. And there are many times that it was just the dark of night, was vertigo sore? And I thought, well, we didn't know if you were Going to fly off a cliff.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

You had to pull over and put chains on.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

Wait, so Jim, what was the budget? Was the budget like 1 8ish?

[Jim Dunlap]

Probably, yeah, I would say initially. Yeah, for sure.

[Rob Morrow]

And how high did it get? 2, 3. 2, 3? Never more than that, probably.

[Jim Dunlap]

I don't think it went above three.

[Rob Morrow]

No, no, no, two, three. Two three.

[Jim Dunlap]

Oh, two, three or so. Oh, yeah. So two, three at the most. At the very most.

[Rob Morrow]

That's a, that's pretty cheap. You know, a cheap show today, an inexpensive show. Our show is 6. 6 million.

[Jeanine Turner]

Which is really pretty wild when you think of, of the film. They don't have to pay for all that film anymore, right?

[Jim Dunlap]

Well, I mean, the first season I wasn't there, but I can't imagine how cheap those shows were. Everyone had their contracts for the first time and you know, it's like it was for, for peanuts. I mean, like really?

[Rob Morrow]

No, we had to fight. We had to, I had to fight for. To make sure they serve second meal to the crew. They wouldn't. Did you really?

[Jim Dunlap]

Wow.

[Rob Morrow]

They literally wouldn't serve. You'd be like, they'd get it for us, you know, Janine and I, whatever we want, they'd go get. But like, you know, and, and it was, you know, we were working ridiculous hours on six day weeks. Wow.

[Jim Dunlap]

Oh my gosh.

[Rob Morrow]

And seven day episodes, you know, it was like we were, it was mad.

[Jeanine Turner]

Some days they want to take the meal penalty. They're like, yeah, we're not going to bother with the second meal. We're just going to pay everybody and kind of like get this shot done. Meanwhile, like, well, we're kind of hungry. And then they would always order pizza. You remember that they want you to be thin, but they're gonna bring in pizza for the second meal from, from Seattle.

[Jim Dunlap]

So it was like bullet hole by the time I got there. So it's like, no, no.

[Jeanine Turner]

Does anybody remember taco time? Yeah, I loved taco time.

[Jim Dunlap]

That's funny you mentioned tacos. Because I talked to Dina, whose husband Bob Loeser was the ad on a few of the shows. Remember Bob Loser? And he said one night you were so hungry, you said, I need a taco now, Bob, get me a taco. And so Bob went, got you tacos. That's funny.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, thank you, Bob. Oh my God. That's the thing. You cannot leave the set. You are trapped there. And that no one really realizes that. That's why everyone's bringing you food and they just don't want you to Leave. Because even if you have three hours or four hours between scenes, you're just a hostage. So you can't just go, oh, you need me in four hours, I'm going to get my car and I'm going to go to taco time. No, they're like, no, you can't. You can't leave at all. And they like watch you. I remember at the end, this guy used to stand there with a stopwatch and click it. When I arrived, it was like, you're two minutes late. I'm like, what?

[Rob Morrow]

Who did that?

[Jeanine Turner]

Really? Oh, oh, yeah. I don't know. It was toward the end.

[Jim Dunlap]

You have a name.

[Jeanine Turner]

But they. What'd you say?

[Jim Dunlap]

Give a name. Come on. On.

[Jeanine Turner]

No, actually, I don't remember. It was. I don't. It was later in the show.

[Rob Morrow]

You know what I'm thinking about? Food wise, though, I remember you used to get used to get at least once a year you'd have tamales sent from Texas. Janine. Yes, they were the best tamales. I've never had tamales as good as that.

[Jeanine Turner]

Jo T. Garcia.

[Rob Morrow]

They're so good. Yeah, you'd give me a whole batch of them. Jim, tell us to give us some more, give us some more observations about this episode. What, what, what kind of either. Either from a production, behind the scenes thing or, or story wise.

[Jim Dunlap]

Well, what I didn't know until today is Valerie won the Emmy for that, for playing Eve. I did not know that. I forgot she actually won the Emmy.

[Rob Morrow]

She's the only one of us. Yes, we were all nominated, but she won.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah. Pretty amazing.

[Rob Morrow]

It's such a lovely performance. You know, it's like. And I love that Joel ultimately listens to her diagnosis. You know, he find he finally listens to her. They have such an interesting relationship. And I remember adoring her and loving playing with her and, you know, having to, to kind of bite my lip to not laugh at some of her idiosyncratic readings.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yep. Just like with the pregnancy portion of the episode where she talks about, you know, her baby, was she going to be as medic, you know, was she going to be molecule like her. Her father? You know, like she got in these big words about this baby being born and it was just so fun to watch her get into that level of anxiety and, you know, concern. Like, she was just brilliant with what she did.

[Rob Morrow]

Just brilliant. And that's her first episode where she was on the show without Adam.

[Jim Dunlap]

And I like the way Ruth Ann brought the stuff up from the basement, just slapped on the counter. Here's, here's what he has left. This is what we have to look, go through and. Which is so. It just seems so, I don't know, blase, but like, wow, there's a guy's life in the basement. Everything he had.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, the kind of. Thematically, that's what the whole show is dealing with the past and, and how past is prologue in a certain way. And Maurice is, you know, going back to his past with his mentor figure and, and seeing things anew and how.

[Jim Dunlap]

His friend was never even offered the position, the job or anything. You know, all that time he thought he turned it down, but he wasn't even offered the job.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. How much we, we think we understand things until we see it from another perspective.

[Jeanine Turner]

When I think the disillusionment, the dis, the disillusionment of heroes.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, that's. Yeah, that's, That's a good way to put it.

[Jeanine Turner]

We need our heroes. And then when we find out that maybe they're fallible or, you know, are human, it. It's especially, I would think, in the military, right, if, if you're going to. My dad was in the Air Force. If you're going to take a command and follow that person through to potential death, you know, you have to, you have to hold a certain amount of respect for that person. And then to, to find out years later that was a pivotal time in his life when they were, when they were in those battles and then to find out later.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, it's funny, you know, I often think that the, the concept and the kind of Greek, you know, original sense of the word is bankrupt. It doesn't. The, the act, the. The concept of a hero is after what we've gone, what we've learned, not the heroic act. You know, there's so many heroic acts every single day and on the large scale and small scale, but the actual idea of a hero is every time we think we know a hero, they turn out to be flawed human being, you know, and so I think it's not. I don't. Not. I'm not sure how good it is to, to, to categorize someone as a hero. What they do, you know. Yes, but not necessarily the person, because none of us are, are perfect. We're all flawed and heroes somehow, you know, and you can even see it in the, in the way Marvel and DC and them deal with all the heroes now are so, you know, fucked up. You know, they all have, you know, serious issues and stuff.

[Jeanine Turner]

Right.

[Rob Morrow]

You know, I, like, at the end, Chris says, you Know, Chris always. Chris Stevens has these. Encapsulates so many moments with his monologues on the air. And he says, it's an Einstein quote, I think. And he says, man is here for the sake of other man. We are connected by a bond of sympathy. You know, I just love that.

[Jim Dunlap]

And we must comfort each other. That was the rest of that, I think. We must comfort each other.

[Rob Morrow]

And we must comfort each other. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I like the line where he said the. Well, you know, Andy and Diane wrote. But the. The dead lie surrounded by the living.

[Rob Morrow]

Right?

[Jeanine Turner]

Or is it the living live surrounded by the dead? I think it was the dead.

[Jim Dunlap]

I think it was the dead. The dead. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Dead live encircled by the living. That the. That the. The graveyards are by the church.

[Rob Morrow]

I always say the death is for the living.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Rob Morrow]

Because we're the ones who have to deal with it.

[Jim Dunlap]

Every episode you got a mini concert of amazing performers. I mean, this one was like Benny Goodman, Mellencamp. We had K Star, we had Bobby McFerrin, all in one 45 minute period.

[Rob Morrow]

What was that? Do you know what that piece was at the end in the montage?

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah, it was called Common Threads. Common threads by Bobby McFerrin.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. Oh, it was Bobby McFerrin.

[Jim Dunlap]

It was. I played a little bit ago just to get in the mood for this. So. Beautiful song. Beautiful song. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. You know, that was Martin, Bruce Lee, always bringing up just great, great stuff, which really defined the show.

[Jim Dunlap]

I mean, I was always into music more than film anyhow, you know, and I. Mary Chapin Carpenter was a friend of mine, and I found out she loved Northern Exposure. I don't know if you know the story or not, but we invited her to the set. She couldn't come out, but she had off that Sunday of her concert in Seattle and came to Peg's house. And Peg had a big lunch for her and her band and everything. And he just loved the show like it was her favorite show of all time.

[Jeanine Turner]

Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music.

[Jim Dunlap]

You look just as natural enjoying us.

[Jeanine Turner]

At age 13 as you do 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever. This episode is brought to you by McAfee. I got a message that our flight was canceled, but they can put us on another flight and we just need to confirm our credit card info. Wait.

[Rob Morrow]

I got a security alert from McAfee.

[Jeanine Turner]

It flagged that message as a scam. McAfee's scam detector automatically spots and alerts you to suspicious Texts, emails and deep fake videos. Learn [e-mail] online protection.

[Rob Morrow]

It was always fun when the music, when you'd find out the musicians. I remember we went. Colum knew Bette Midler. I don't know if you were with us, Janine, but Bette Midler came to town to do one of her concerts and we, A bunch of us went and. And she. In the middle of one of her little patters between songs, she said, you know, and for all those Northern Exposures out there, which was sweet.

[Jim Dunlap]

Do you know the Broadway singer Linda Etter? Do you know her at all?

[Rob Morrow]

Sounds familiar, but I'm not sure.

[Jim Dunlap]

She was big in the 90s. She came to town, we found out she liked us. We brought her out to the set one day and she was in heaven. I mean, she's a really amazing singer, but she was in concert in town, wanted to come see it out, so we took her on a tour. Yeah, these people, these big, big time people were fans as well. That was just so amazing. So.

[Jeanine Turner]

And they wanted to be on the show, but they wouldn't let them be on the show.

[Rob Morrow]

Joni Mitchell want to be the show. I've been trying to get Joni to come on the show and she's. I can't get her. I can't get her to. To do it, but. But she was. She wanted to them to create a character for her on the show because she thought the show was. She thought someone was. She thought Shelly was like a version of her or something like that, because I. Maybe I don't know exactly what her connection was, but. But that's what I had heard. And Stephen Stills wanted to come on the show.

[Jim Dunlap]

Hey, dude. Oh, my gosh.

[Rob Morrow]

He wanted to come on and he had acted a couple, you know, he'd done a couple things like on Manics and some TV movies. And I begged Josh to bring him on and he wouldn't do it. And I thought he'd be such a great character, this kind of itinerant, you know, you know, wandering minstrel or something, you know, showing up with his guitar and Sicily and. And playing some music. But I think they didn't want, you know, they didn't. They didn't want anything pop cultural, you know, to. To. To define the show, I guess.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, it broke the fourth wall, so to speak, like when suddenly you have a celebrity in there.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. But I mean, they had Adam Anton, so I don't know. But, you know, it's funny you say that, because I noticed that I say I'm trying to understand if. If Valerie is or no more. Maurice comes in having crashed his car, and I want to make sure he's, you know, his brain's okay. And I, I asked him who the president is, but they don't answer it, which I thought was really smart because it's like it doesn't date the show, you know?

[Jeanine Turner]

True. Good point. That's a good point.

[Jim Dunlap]

That's a good point. Yep.

[Rob Morrow]

I think anything that dated the show, they wanted to stay away from. And, and again, I. I maintain that I watch these shows, and it. They do not feel dated to me.

[Jim Dunlap]

Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Nope.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I'm still intrigued, Jim, about the budget meetings and the production meetings and how much things are going to cost. I mean, I think that those that are listening might be sort of interested in that, you know, so give us an example. I mean, the budget, like, if you were in a budget meeting, that that would mean that. That there were new things coming on each show. I even noticed, you know, how the dog jumped on Rob as Fleischman as he, when it came in the door at the very beginning.

[Rob Morrow]

It's such a nice touch. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Intricacy is my word of the day, by the way. I think I have said it five times. So word of the day, intricacy.

[Rob Morrow]

We should start flashing your words of the day on the screen's word of the day. Intricate.

[Jeanine Turner]

Rob. Rob has a great vocabulary, Robin. I love words. I love grammar. I love grammar. I love words. But talk a little bit about, was there ever, like, no, no, no, we're not paying for that, or this is going to cost.

[Jim Dunlap]

There's a lot of that. There's a lot of that. There's a lot of that.

[Jeanine Turner]

Give us some examples of that. I think that's interesting.

[Jim Dunlap]

Well, I mean, sometimes if they wanted to do a snow scene, they'll say, that's just way too expensive. It's not going to snow. Now, that kind of stuff, you know, like, the snow's out because it's way too expensive to do. Do that, and it's not going to make a difference. And if they want to cut a budget, they look at that kind of stuff first. They might cut an animal or two. You know, they're not going to cut anything major that's going to affect the. The what comes across. But I mean, like, if they can cut something to bring it down, they will. I mean, they really will.

[Jeanine Turner]

What else did they cut?

[Jim Dunlap]

They. I mean, it didn't happen a lot on this show. I. I Can tell you that much, I think, because you. We had a hit and Universal knew it, and I think they didn't mess with it too much. But towards the end is when they did that, like the very last season, they would cut things out a lot just to cut. I mean, there was like, like they had an extra scene. They cut like 50 extras. They don't need. You don't need 120. You can have 40. You're fine. And so that kind of. I just felt it more the last season.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. You know. You know, his show's coming to the end when they start nickel and diming. That's always the case.

[Jim Dunlap]

Exactly.

[Rob Morrow]

You're just like, really, you know. Right.

[Jim Dunlap]

It's true, though. It's true. And I felt that too. I thought, well, I'm not buying anything else this year. I know I'm out here in May, so I know where we're going. About four months. I could feel it. I could just feel it. And I really, honestly, candidly, candidly, that last season wasn't really necessary, I don't think. I mean, I, I think it was okay, but I think they stepped too far. I think they did. I think a lot of those episodes were okay, but not with the first five season tour.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, we lost Joshua Brand.

[Jim Dunlap]

We did. That didn't help at all.

[Rob Morrow]

But that was way, way earlier than that. Josh left at 66 episodes, right?

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah.

[Jim Dunlap]

I don't know. I just felt like they kind of were done.

[Rob Morrow]

I agree. I mean, I think. And a lot of the writers will tell you they were. They were up against it by, you know, by the end of the fourth season, they were like, what do we do? I think it's a, you know, it's a phenomenon that's, that's specific to network television or television series in general, is that, you know, you come up with this great idea for a certain story, these great characters you come up with a season or two, and then it's all about economics, usually to keep it for. To keep it going, you know, and it's why, you know, in, in England, they were, they, they, they had limited series, you know, forever, you know, because they knew. It's like that's what the story is and you don't have to just milk it, you know, or as they, they came up with the phrase jumping the shark on happy days when, when, when Fonzie, you know, literally jumped his, his motorcycle over his shark. And that became the, the euphemism for when a show was coming to the end and they started doing things out of desperation to create story. You know, I often say that Shakespeare couldn't have written 100 great episodes. You know, it's. It's. It's tough. You're just chasing. You know, you find yourself doing the same scenes over and over. And if you're on a. I was on a procedural for six years and found myself doing the same. And I'm kind of. And. And. And sometimes I'd be, like, so confused about, wait, did I just say that? Or did I say that two episodes ago? Or am I, you know, like, wears thin?

[Jeanine Turner]

And there are shows that can do it and. And that do. Do have done it and that have gone on forever. And I like Dallas. You know, Dallas went on forever.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. Well, I don't know. If I. If I analyze Dallas, I would probably, you know, be. You know, you'd probably see a lot of redundancy and story and stuff like that. How many years was that on?

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't know. But. But the point. The point I'm making, the broader point I want to make. Right, is that even as actors, we start to think, I want to grow. You know, I want to expand. I want to maybe wear something different. I want my character to maybe do this. I would love something to happen, you know, my character to do that. We get a little bored, too. You know, it's like we're doing the same thing over and over again. Everybody needs to be inspired. And there seems to be. Be. There seems to be this resistance for growth, for change, to. To. Because people in five years are going to change and grow. And so if you don't let that happen with all the characters and let it. Let them experiment and go kind of do different things, then. Then you do. It does become stagnant. It becomes stagnant for everybody. And I think that's one. If you've got a successful show, people grow. They change. Think about some of these shows that are so popular, they get married, they have babies. Okay, course, Cynthia, that they did, but you have to. I know I started to feel very stifled at the end.

[Jim Dunlap]

You lost your partner, too, for part of that, too. So, I mean, you had to be alone all of a sudden.

[Rob Morrow]

I don't want to get too deep into the end, but, you know, I loved the way. I loved what I got to do at the end when I was still there.

[Jeanine Turner]

But that's. Because that's what you got to do.

[Rob Morrow]

No, I know. Well, I'm talking about my character.

[Jeanine Turner]

But the rest of us that were staying because we didn't leave, we didn't get to have that kind of metamorphosis morphosis.

[Rob Morrow]

Right, I understand. But I mean, he got to change. And you know, I, I was always fighting with them, you know, trying to get them to allow the characters to change. And there's different, you know, in comedy, you know, the, the, there's this convention that the characters don't change. That what makes them funny is, you know, is that you kind of know how they're going to react. Archie Bunker, you know, you know what he's going to do. Charlie Chaplin, you kind of know how he's going to react. In drama, characters change. And so, you know, it's because we were a, a dramedy, you know, we were, we were splitting the line and you know, there was, there were some that resisted it, but eventually they, they had to give over to, to certain things so that they weren't writing the same scenes over and over again. Which I think they did, you know, pretty successfully. Even though it was a challenge, you know, in those later years.

[Jim Dunlap]

No, for sure. Do you remember the two season pickup? Do you remember that? When that happened in 93, was it 93. That was the first time I think they ever did episodic two seasons at one time ever.

[Rob Morrow]

I think it was unprecedented. It was a 50 episode order. Janine went out and bought a house. The next day I bought a Rolex or something.

[Jim Dunlap]

Do you remember what they wheeled.

[Jeanine Turner]

About? A horse Pickup truck.

[Jim Dunlap]

Do you remember what rolled in the office that day when they announced it? Do you remember what they rolled at Universal rolled in?

[Jeanine Turner]

Televisions. They gave us television sets.

[Jim Dunlap]

And what else do you remember? Do you remember the two ice sculptures? The moose. Ice sculptures. They had two big ice moose sculptures. They rolled in these. It said 50 across the top of it. Yeah, it was beautiful.

[Rob Morrow]

Amazing.

[Jeanine Turner]

All those were the days. I don't. Where did they put the ice sculptures?

[Jim Dunlap]

It was in the lobby, right there in front, inside the front door, right in the main lobby there.

[Jeanine Turner]

You know, in the day, if, you know, if we had. Probably I have photos of that in some scrapbook and some dusty box in the very back of my storage house. You know what I mean? And now e. But even today you can put them on your phone. If you get a new computer in the cloud. It's like, how do I find that picture from 20 years ago or 30 years ago? But it would be great to have pictures of that because I do remember walking in and all of it. They gave all. At least the actors, television sets with that had. And VH a zillion, you know, copies of blank VHS's to record the show, I guess.

[Jim Dunlap]

Have you reached out to Jack Black at all?

[Rob Morrow]

I see him around town every once in a while, so I'm hoping to.

[Jim Dunlap]

Well, I'll make a call. I'll make a call.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, do you know him personally?

[Jim Dunlap]

Yeah, I did. I did. I did Gulliver's Travels, but his photo double, his stunt double is a really good friend of mine and they're best friends, so I'm gonna reach out. I thought about this one when you invited me to come on.

[Rob Morrow]

It would be so great to have him because it may have been one of his first jobs.

[Jim Dunlap]

I think it was, wasn't it?

[Jeanine Turner]

That's why my story is. My elevator story is so funny because when we worked with him, he. He was just this young kid, right? And then I saw him years later, years later in an elevator, and he was now Jack Black, right? And I didn't put two and two together. That. That Jack Black with whom I'd worked and this Jack Black in the elevator were the same person. And he reached out to me like, hey, hi. And. And I looked at him like, hi, you know, oh, my gosh, so good to see you. And I remember he back nugs not. You know, it's just like a meeting Jack Black type of response. But he. I remember he backed up. Up. He was going to say, I worked with you. Remember? I could see it was all over his face because he has a very open face. And then he kind of backed. He goes, that's okay. And he backed up all of the. Of the elevator. And later, I was watching the show with Juliet, I guess, about my daughter about eight years ago. I'm like, oh, my God, it was Jack Black. And now the elevator makes sense to me. I had no idea.

[Rob Morrow]

It's also. You can see that he could have had a very different career because his performance is very subdued and. And kind of deep. You know, it's not the. The wild, crazy Jack Black we all know. And, you know, I. I don't think they. They really let him do that. Janine, you have any favorite lines before we wrap up?

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, I didn't write any of them down. I got one. Cemetery one. Okay. What's that? What's yours?

[Rob Morrow]

It was something that Valerie said when she was in this. She's in Ruthanne's store and Ruthann is talking to her and she's going over the different Maaloxes and she's. She knows everything about Maalox. And she says, yes, I Like the Swiss lemon Maalox. It's nice. It's tart. It's good chilled.

[Jim Dunlap]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jeanine Turner]

The writing for that was just impeccable. Impeccable. And her delivery was impeccable. It was just something else. The casting. You know, we should get the casting director on the show.

[Rob Morrow]

That's a good idea. We should. I mean, we had different ones, so we'd have to decide which one, but for sure.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, the one all of us originally in. In New York and la. You know what I mean? Because I know I. I was in New York, but.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. Megan. Brandon. Brandon and Lynn Krestle out of New York. Lynn Krestle was out York of New New York. Yeah. This. So. So let's just rip to. To Valerie Mahaffey and Peg Phillips. That's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, that's right. Peg Phillips was always so good.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

So there.

[Jim Dunlap]

Yes, he was. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

I wish you guys the best. The happiest holidays. It's. Jim, it's so nice to see you. You were such a great presence on the show. You were always just kind and. And supportive and, you know, and. And gave us money. So. What more could we ask? There you go.

[Jim Dunlap]

There you go. Thank you for that.

[Jeanine Turner]

A lovely person. A good person.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Jim Dunlap]

Thank you. That's nice.

[Jeanine Turner]

I can see why people were knitting at your feet and lying on the floor.

[Jim Dunlap]

There you go. Thank you very much.

[Jeanine Turner]

But you're awesome, Jim. Thanks for coming on and sharing this.

[Jim Dunlap]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Jeanine Turner]

See you again after all.

[Jim Dunlap]

You too. Go. Both of you. So nice. So nice.

[Rob Morrow]

So, to everyone out. Everyone out there watching, Happy holidays. Happy New Year. We're going to be off for a couple weeks and then we will be back with new guests. And.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I've already put in my call. I've already put in my text to Universal Studios.

[Jim Dunlap]

So cool. Thank you.

[Jeanine Turner]

I echo that. I echo that. Wonderful to see you, Jim. Rob, always good to see you. And happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Christmas, whatever it may be. Have a great holiday season. Stay blessed. Stay healthy. Stay. Stay calm.

[Jim Dunlap]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, thank you. And so we'll see you in a couple of weeks. And right now we're wrapping up the show Northern Disclosure with o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Rob Morrow]

Actually, I think it probably should be Fleischman o'. Connell.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, in your dreams, Fleischman.

[Rob Morrow]

All right. Actually, since it's Christmas, since it's holidays, the Konica and Christmas, I'll let it be this for today will go out with o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you for that gift. Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

[Wil Wheaton]

Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories. And I was a massive fan of my friend and and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it, so I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up where he left off and to my delight he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love, pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine, Lightspeed on Spec, and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Storytime with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me sa.