S3E19: "Final Frontier" with Joe Lazarov

Summary

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Northern Disclosure S3E19: "Final Frontier" with Joe Lazarov

Release Date: February 24, 2026
Host: Evergreen Podcasts
Co-hosts: Rob Morrow & Janine Turner
Special Guest: Joe Lazarov (Post Production Supervisor / Associate Producer)

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Northern Disclosure, co-stars Rob Morrow and Janine Turner are joined by Joe Lazarov—a pivotal figure behind the scenes of Northern Exposure—to revisit the episode titled "Final Frontier." The discussion takes a deep dive into post-production magic, behind-the-scenes learning, and the episode's notable social and thematic insights. The trio reflect on the iconic series' legacy, production processes then and now, and the collaborative ethos that made Northern Exposure unique.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Joe Lazarov’s Role and Growth with the Show

• Career Background: Joe started as a Post Production Supervisor, eventually becoming Associate Producer for 95 episodes.
• Early Days: Joe was in his mid-20s when joining the show. He attributes much of his career's trajectory to his time on Northern Exposure.
  • “It was the show that got me to be a producer.” (05:44, Joe)

The Importance and Challenges of ADR (Looping)

• Learning Through ADR: Joe gained firsthand experience working directly with actors in ADR sessions, noting their differing personalities.
  • “Rob, you would yell at me. Jeanine, you were very sweet.” (06:38, Joe)
• Actor Frustrations: Changing lines and rhythms in post often frustrated actors, especially Rob, who valued natural pauses and performance rhythms.
  • “Comedy doesn’t have to be wall to wall verbiage.” (08:24, Rob)
• Al Pacino’s Approach: The group compares approaches, noting some (like Pacino) prefer post-production control over performances.

Inside Post Production: Editing, Mixing, and Color Timing

• Collaboration Across Departments: Joe describes a dynamic, close-knit production “campus” where everyone—from editors to music supervisors—worked collaboratively.
  • “All these things we all got to learn...we all got to get better because we all were in editing, we were in the music sessions, we were in the spotting sessions.” (13:48, Joe)
• Technological Evolution: Discussion of transitions from tape-based editing to Avid (digital editing), which revolutionized the speed and flexibility of the process.
  • “Avid changed everything. The amount of time, the different versions of a scene…really changed everything.” (18:28, Rob)
• Color Timing’s Emotional Impact: The crew notes how the color palette directly affects the audience’s perception and emotional response.
  • “The tones of color affect us emotionally.” (13:51, Rob)

Set Dynamics vs. Post-Production Atmosphere

• Set Life: Fast-paced, always in sync, high-pressure.
• Post-Production: Relaxed, creative, yet crucial for the show’s polish and mood.
  • “We were very relaxed...we’d get the job done.” (19:00, Joe)
• Looping Facilities: Memorable moments in Seattle studios; fond memories of studio environments and holiday parties.

“Final Frontier” Episode: Behind the Scenes and On-Screen Impact

Episode Production Specifics

• Joe’s Memories: Not much ADR was necessary for this episode, besides fine-tuning some lines—it’s a well-structured and moving episode.
• Double Tom Moor(e): Humorous coincidence: Tom Moore directed, Thomas Moore edited.
  • “We had two Tom Moores.” (21:25, Joe)

Thematic Depth & Representation

• LGBTQ+ Representation: The show’s recurring gay couple, Ron and Eric, was a bold move in early ‘90s TV, drawing both acclaim and backlash.
  • “That was controversial ...they didn’t want that on television.” (24:09, Rob)
  • Maurice's homophobia is confronted with subtlety and redemption—handled with both humor and heart.
  • “[Maurice] says, 'I particularly hate being bested by fairies.' So funny.” (27:10, Rob)
• Handling of Prejudice: The guests note that “nobody really cared” about Ron and Eric’s sexuality except Maurice; the town treats them as people.
  • “They knew it was about him [Maurice], not about them.” (27:00, Jeanine)
• Freedom in Dialogues: Reflections on how some of Maurice’s dialogue—fine in that era—would be contentious if aired today, but ultimately contributed to character development and life lessons.

Philosophical Underpinnings

• Chris in the Morning’s Narration: John Corbett’s character ties together the episode’s themes, presenting philosophical reflections through reading “Paddle to the Sea.”
  • “He did that a lot. I love the way he does it... heartfelt and soulful.” (30:36, Rob)
• Curiosity as Central Theme: All storylines explore curiosity—about the world, history, each other, and oneself.
  • “Curiosity. That’s really what the show’s about.” (36:52, Rob)
  • Joe notes, “You don’t have to go to space, just backing out of your driveway...that was the thing that hit me the most.” (36:03, Joe)

Production Design and Cinematic Techniques

• Aspect Ratios & Blocking: Discussion on how widescreen aspect ratios increased authenticity and how old TV tropes sometimes hurt realism.
  • “It made such a difference, and I prefer it. It's the way the eye sees.” (24:09, Rob)
• Camera Work & Locations: Praise for director Tom Moore’s dynamic but unobtrusive style, and anecdotes about the real Roslin Café mural.

Cast & Performance Anecdotes

• Praise for Barry Corbin and John Cullum: Powerful monologues and ability to handle sensitive, sometimes bigoted language while maintaining likability.
• Cynthia Geary’s “Beginner’s Luck”: Admiration for her landing the Shelly role early in her career.
  • “She’s just so pure. Like, she just loves [Holling] no matter what.” (51:54, Rob)

Why Northern Exposure Worked

• Unified Vision: Joe credits Josh Brand as the show's primary visionary, emphasizing the importance of a single creative voice.
  • “There needs to always be one final...the buck stops here. This is what we're doing...And Josh was that.” (54:19, Joe)
• Passion and Collaboration: True commitment from everyone involved—from acting to sound, lighting, music—fostered the show’s lasting impact.
  • “The worst thing in the world is to work with an apathetic person...I feel you're there as an artist to create art.” (45:23, Jeanine)

Changes in TV Production - Then and Now

• Scriptation & Digital Scripts: Rob explains Scriptation, an app that allows seamless transfer of digital script notes—"a game changer”—contrasted with former, color-coded paper scripts.
  • “[Scriptation is] indispensable...all your notes seamlessly get transferred to the next draft...” (59:29, Rob)
  • “Every frame counts. That's what I've learned. Every frame of your movie, you need to paint.” (63:29, Joe)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Post Production Learning:
  • “Sitting in that booth with you guys and learning how to communicate, how to get performance was such a learning experience for me.” (06:01, Joe)
• On Rhythm in Editing:
  • “If we took a pause...they would cut to behind our shoulders and have us add a line in there. And that drove me crazy.” (07:49, Rob)
• On LGBTQ Representation:
  • “People are people. That's what that means.” (25:49, Rob)
• On the Artistic Process:
  • “Every frame needs to be looked at.” (63:29, Joe)
• On Unified Creative Vision:
  • “There was one vision...the buck stops here.” (54:19, Joe)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:13] Introduction of Joe Lazarov and his early career anecdotes
• [06:38] Looping, ADR sessions, and actor perspectives
• [08:24] Rob Morrow's frustrations with post-production changes
• [13:48] Vertical collaboration in post, music, and editing
• [18:28] The advent of Avid and digital editing
• [21:25] Tom Moore (director) and Thomas Moore (editor) coincidence
• [24:09] Widescreen aspect ratio and its impact on staging
• [27:00-27:54] Discussion of Ron & Eric and LGBTQ representation in 1990s TV
• [30:36-36:52] Chris in the Morning's narrations and the theme of curiosity
• [45:23] Artistic passion and working with dedicated collaborators
• [54:19] Importance of a single creative vision (Josh Brand)
• [59:29] Explanation and impact of Scriptation app

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Conclusion

This episode provides an in-depth exploration of not only the classic Northern Exposure episode "Final Frontier," but also the collective heart, hard work, and creative friction that propelled the series into TV history. Through stories of technological evolution, candid behind-the-scenes confessions, and philosophical musings on curiosity and authenticity, Morrow, Turner, and Lazarov demonstrate why Cicely, Alaska—and Northern Exposure—continue to resonate decades later.

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Transcript

[Joe Lazarov]

Hey, it's Sterling K. Brown from the Hulu original series Paradise. The next chapter begins as Xavier's search for his wife takes him above ground. And what he finds will change everything. It was never just about the bunker. Tune in and discover the truth lies outside Paradise. The official podcast is now streaming and stream paradise on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

[Jeanine Turner]

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[Jeanine Turner]

You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get [e-mail], own the dream. Hello, everyone. I'm Jeanine Turner. Welcome to Northern Disclosure, where Rob Morrow and I walk through all the episodes of Northern Exposure. So welcome to the show. We have a great show for you. And this was also one of the quintessential beautiful, lyrical, gutsy, mystical, philosophical shows of Northern Exposure with two incredible, gifted, talented people who wrote it and directed it. I was just going to toss that out there before. One is Tom Moore and the other is Jeff Flaming, and they were incredibly, incredibly talented. And Tom Moore, our director, actually directed the original Broadway production of Grease, if you can believe that, in 1972, and then he directed a musical over here with Maxine and Patty Andrews, but also John Travolta, Mary Lou Henner, Treat Williams and Ann Reinking. So I don't even know if Rob and I knew that when he directed us, but. Rob Morrow, welcome to the show, and we're excited for our special guest and you're going to announce him.

[Rob Morrow]

Thanks. Jeanine, good to see you. How you doing?

[Jeanine Turner]

Busy, busy, busy, busy, busy. But very good. How are you, Rob?

[Rob Morrow]

I'm okay. I'm a little down. A friend of mine passed away, Eric Dane, the actor. So I just want to throw a shout out to Eric Dane, rip Good guy, died of als. I'm on the board of Project als, so I'd been trying to help him over the last year or so, and it's a tough disease, but there's hope coming. You know, there's some drugs that are in human trials that are showing great potential. So hopefully his life, his death, will not be in vain.

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. Yeah, he was really young.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, he was very young and vital, and he Went fast. His version of Als, which is different in every one. That's the thing is it's different in everyone. His progressed very fast. But I was going to say that it's interesting that Tom directed Greece and then did that other play with Treat and Travolta. They were both in Greece.

[Jeanine Turner]

Was John Travolta in the Broadway version of Grease?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

I didn't know he was on the Broadway. I knew he was in the movie. I didn't know he was on the Broadway version.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, yeah. As was my pal Peter Gallagher. And Treat Williams. RIP Treat Williams. He was a friend. So, yeah, this was an interesting episode. It was fun. It was well written, it was well structured. I thought it always gets me in the end. There's something about it. My sister always said it. There's something about the ends of Northern Exposure. No matter what's going on, I'm just pulled in and like, I just felt moved. You know, when Chris does his last monologue of that, the book that he reads from, which is. What does he reads from a book? A paddle to the sea. It always gets me.

[Joe Lazarov]

So.

[Rob Morrow]

So we have a cool guest, which I. I can't wait to hear some of what he remembers. Joe Lazarov is. He was. He started as a post production supervisor, then became an associate producer, but had 95 episodes.

[Joe Lazarov]

Right.

[Rob Morrow]

There's not a lot of veterans that, I mean, you and I have clocked that many there. But 95 he went on to do. Incredible. He was a co ep on Designator Survivor for 30 episodes where I worked with him again. And Jeff Melvoin, who was one of our writer producers. He was a co producer for 72 episodes of Gossip Girl, Psych, Kojak, Touching evil. He did 48 hours of law and Order, New York Undercover, and I'm sure many, many others. He's had a long, long career. He's a great guy. I love when I bump into him and we get to catch up and I'm so looking forward to having him. So without further ado, Joe Lazaroff.

[Joe Lazarov]

Hey, everybody. Janine, Rob, y' all look great.

[Jeanine Turner]

So do you. It's so good to see you. I remember all those times we would do looping together and whatnot. And you were a youngster and you were young. Yeah, I was young, definitely. Compared to now, I was definitely young.

[Rob Morrow]

So how old were you, Joe? Do you remember?

[Joe Lazarov]

Gosh, I would have been 25. 20, yeah, about 25, 26.

[Rob Morrow]

Was this your first gig in show in Hollywood?

[Joe Lazarov]

No, but it was the first. It was the show that got me to be a producer. Associate producer.

[Rob Morrow]

Like you said, you were post production supervisor. Initially, yes. After. When did they make you an associate producer?

[Joe Lazarov]

Maybe season four.

[Rob Morrow]

Did your responsibilities change?

[Joe Lazarov]

No, no, I don't think they really did because I was already, you know, working up with you guys in Seattle doing ADR and having great experience. You know, that to me, you know, I've become a director since. But what I realized sitting in those, in that booth with you guys and learning how to communicate, how to get performance was such a learning experience for me because I would get the feedback from you guys, you know. Rob, you would yell at me. Jeanine, you were very sweet.

[Jeanine Turner]

I want to hear that again. Rob, you would always yell at me. And Janine, you were very sweet. Is that what you just said?

[Rob Morrow]

I just wanted.

[Joe Lazarov]

That's what I just said.

[Rob Morrow]

I want to put a disclaimer for a blanket apology for any yelling I might have done. I was, I had some issues to work out for.

[Joe Lazarov]

Sure, you did have issues to work out. But you know what? That's what was great about those sessions. They, you, you were. We were all learning things. And I think one of the big things that I know on, on your show, you talk about Josh Brandon. Genius, genius, genius. But one of the things I learned from Josh was he didn't stop at the script and he, he kept rewriting and rewriting and rewriting, even in post as we were editing. Genius editor. And then he would add all these lines or change lines. And I think it frustrated every actor coming in because, you know, you're. You performed it a certain way. And now this structure and the story is being changed in a lot of, a lot of times. I don't know about this particular episode.

[Rob Morrow]

One of the things that I still disagree with him about and when I watch the episodes, it still jumps out as me is it's that there was this idea, there was this kind of trope in comedy that there can be no dead air. And so if we took a pause, you know, to make a point, they would cut to behind our shoulders and have us add a line in there. And that was the thing that used to drive me crazy because it sounded rhythmically wrong. You know, it all comes down to rhythm for me on a certain level. And the rhythms would change. And I can hear it when I watch the show now. There's just moments where I'm like, they could have let that. And I think nowadays that. I think it was an old fashioned idea. I think nowadays they would let that air. Comedy doesn't have to be wall to wall verbiage, you know?

[Joe Lazarov]

Right. And Jeanine, this is how he yelled at me in the sessions. This is the yelling. This is it. I'm not. When I say yelling, it wasn't like screaming. It was. I don't get it. Why are we doing this? Why can't it breathe? You know, it was the exact same conversation.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, there you go. Well, I still have those feelings, but I might do it. Say it a little nicer.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't mind filler so much. Anything in the world is better than a laugh track. I mean, just. I cannot watch a comedy if it's got a laugh track. I just don't tell me when to laugh. And on all that. So at least we didn't have that. I didn't mind the filler as much as when my performance itself on camera, on my face had to change. You know, that's. That's what was hard. It's like the direction of how I was directed on the set and how I performed on the set then in post was changed. But I gotta tell you, it was pure genius and it worked. And now I'm a director and I'm a writer and I'm in editing right now. And I just sent two lines to one of the actresses saying, can you just record these two lines for me really quickly? Because I decided I'm going to change the whole thing. And I'm going to. Instead of starting with this at the beginning, I'm starting with something else in the beginning. And then I'm moving this in. So I understand the idiosyncrasies. But I imagine it was great learning how to negotiate with actors because that. That is a. I just. I looped for. I did this movie about Patsy Cline, and I played Patsy Cline's mother. And I just remember I had this big scene where I was crying because my daughter, you know, Patsy Cline, had died. And there were rocks. We were walking on rocks. And so they wanted me to redo the whole scene. I'm like, oh, no. You know, you can't get those little breaths back, those little nuances.

[Rob Morrow]

But it's funny. You know, what's interesting is someone like Al Pacino prefers to loop his performances. Like he. He feels like he can dial it in and get much more specific. So it's, you know, it's. I guess each person.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I know what Al Pacino wants to do. I know what Al Pacino wants to do. He then can see both sides of the performance. So he wants to Manipulate his performance, you know, to. To kind of. Now that he sees. I'm not saying it's a bad manipulation, but once he sees what the other actor is doing, he might actually change his performance. The way it kind of all came together in post, because it. That I think he has more control over his performance, his per. His power in it. So I could see that he might like that. I've worked with him a little bit. So what.

[Rob Morrow]

Joe, tell us a little bit about what a post production supervisor does.

[Joe Lazarov]

I mean, I think it's different in every show, but, you know, my job on this. And it did kind of increase. You know, when I first went. Martin. Bruce Lee is. I know he's been on. He'd had a great interview.

[Rob Morrow]

We love Martin.

[Joe Lazarov]

Martin's great. I think he was the first. He was flying up to do ADR in the beginning. I didn't come on until season two, after the first 15, I think it was. Was season one.

[Rob Morrow]

Right.

[Joe Lazarov]

So I didn't start flying up to Seattle until either midway through season two or into three. And then I think for. And then Steve Turner, also another post person. We started to alternate or take turns on who was coming up to do adr. But then we were also doing the mix. And then eventually I got to be the first voice in the final mix. And then Martin and Sheryl Block and Josh and John and whoever else would come down and the writer would come down and give notes at the final mix.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. And just to clarify for our audience, the mix is all the different sound cues, all the different dialogue, all the different effects. The music has to be balanced, and it's a real art. And it's kind of one of the last before the audience gets to see the show, which is. It's very tedious work.

[Jeanine Turner]

And you're saying you got the first pass eventually?

[Joe Lazarov]

I got like a first. I got a first pass eventually. And so it was a presentation to everybody, you know, and it wasn't just me. It was. The music supervisor would be there, and it's the mixers. We had Greg Orloff and Rusty Smith and Tony d' Amico and Peter Cole was one of our early mixers. We all like everything. I felt, and I still feel the collaboration of any project, even going to David Schwartz's house to do music. You know, it would be Jonna, Ruben and Steve and Martin, and we would sit around and talk to David and he would kind of play cues or do some different things on the piano or the Moog or whatever he had going on. And so all these things we all got to learn, and we all got to get better because we all were in editing, we were in the music sessions, we were in the spotting sessions. Color timing. Rob, if you want to explain color

[Jeanine Turner]

timing, Color timing is real important.

[Rob Morrow]

Color timing is everything, you know, because the tones of color affect us emotionally. And so getting the right balance of first what you want, whether you want something to be richer or darker, you know, they go through different vogue eras. You know, in the 2000s, it was crushing all the blacks, you know, that's what they did. So that it all had this kind of dark, mysterious quality. Dense. And in comedy, it tends to be very bright, but you can really dial. You can really affect the audience emotionally through the color timing. Not to get so granular here, but.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah, but there was two people that did color time. It was Tom Overton and Randy Starnes, and different. And they kept saying, I had this aversion to green. So. Because I kept saying, it's so green, their faces seem green. He goes, it's really good, you know, And I go, I don't like the green. I don't like the green. Which, you know, maybe I do have an aversion to green.

[Rob Morrow]

It's individual. That's the other thing. It's like, you know, we're all individuals, and we have different eyes and different, you know, receptors, and so we see things differently.

[Jeanine Turner]

I think in editing, it makes or breaks it, and I'm dealing with that right now, editing my project. And you talk about the color timing, and there's like a little bit of a golden hue on me. And I said, well, I think, you know, let's match that on everybody else. And the kind of music that comes in. Well, is that upstaging the actual performer? Is it distract? Like, Marilyn Monroe said she would never wear jewels around her neck if it distracted from her face. You know what I mean? So is the music distracting from the performance? It's just the idiosyncrasies in post. It must have been amazing to be a fly on the wall and. And to be. Because I think the creativity in post production is just as almost as pivotal as every other element of it. And to. To have sat in that room and. And listened to the various music that. You try this music. No, try that music. No, try this music. And then to have Josh and Cheryl and everybody walk in, I imagine. I always imagine. I always imagine Josh running in the room, throwing his papers around, you know, like, no, no, no. It's got to be like this, because that's what he did to me, you know, at the, at the audition. But Josh was probably a real treasure, wasn't it? And then you got to come deal with us and see the other side. So how cool is that to. Because a lot of times Josh and John and Cheryl, they didn't spend that much time with us, the writers even, but you did. So you got to see both sides. You want to just address how, how different it is to be in post production. In this kind of everyone's relaxed. No one really has to be in front of the camera and you're kind of working it, editing it together and then being on a set and watching us. It's two completely different worlds. It'd be fun for you to address that for a minute.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah, for me, because I had been doing post before and I always went to set because usually I was in the same town and was able to go to the set and then do my post work. We were at the Atlantana center in West LA and we had a couple of different wings of this building and the editors were in one spot, the writers were in a spot, and then the executive branch where the producers were. And then we eventually, I think after season two, we moved to the post facility that was in the building as well. So everything was right there. Nobody had to get into a car to really do anything except go to David Schwartz's house to do music or to go to Seattle to do adr. So yeah, to answer the first part of the question, people were running up and down halls. We would say, all right, we're gonna have a quick edit session. We'd sit in a room and in the beginning it was on a three quarter inch tape that was an output from the. I forget what the editing system was. We were the second show to go to Avid.

[Rob Morrow]

It was like a laser show. It was a laser.

[Joe Lazarov]

It wasn't Laser Edit? No, it wasn't Edidroid shoot. I don't remember the name of it. It'll come to me in a second. But it was all these video. It was like half inch tapes in bunch of decks and they were random access from. But you'd hear the tapes whirring and whirring and whirring. That was the only way that you could output it. So it was smooth. And then to be able to go backwards and forwards was to put it on a three quarter inch tape and then go to a room. And then there was this controller in the middle of the table that, you know, everybody would grab it and say, can we go back and then someone would do the controller. And so that was the old fashioned way until we got on Avid and then the editor could actually control and drive the system.

[Rob Morrow]

Avid changed everything. Avid is the modern kind of non linear digital approach to editing. And it just changed the whole game. The amount of time, the different versions of a scene you could look at within like 10, 15 minutes. It really changed everything.

[Jeanine Turner]

I remember the days where they took the film. They had to take the film and literally cut the film, you know, put it together and then run it through the projector and look at it. Think of those days.

[Joe Lazarov]

Wow. Yeah. Well, that was only two years prior or one year prior. And some shows were still on film during our time. So that just kind of tells you we were sort of cutting edge in terms of trying to move us, you know, forward. But, you know, the. So you're right, we were very relaxed. We. We could, you know, we'd come in at, you know, eight or nine or 10 and roll out whenever we wanted to. But we'd get the job done. Coming to set. Everybody's gotta be there and timed and in sync all the time. So it's. It was great for me to come up. I would stay sometimes for like. I remember a Christmas party at your house, Jeanine. And I remember a couple of holiday parties on set or wrap parties. And those were a lot of fun. Coming to set when I would be waiting because I couldn't get an actor to come in for looping because the set was in Redmond. Right. Was that where we were at Redmond?

[Rob Morrow]

The office?

[Joe Lazarov]

And then you'd have to come all the way out to downtown Seattle to come do adr because we needed to be in the studio. I forget what the name of that studio was, but it was a music studio that they converted for us. God, there was. I can't even remember the people. There was a guy named Peter, I think, and it was great. It was a great place to hang out. And it was in Seattle, so I liked being there. Because in Redmond it was just the set and nothing else. There was no place to walk to. It was just kind of, you know, hanging out in the offices with like, Matt Nodella.

[Jeanine Turner]

And how was that dynamic different? You said we all had to be in sync, but the energy had to have been so different on set.

[Joe Lazarov]

Oh, on set was definitely. I mean. Yeah, I mean. Cause there's pressure. You know, the ads are saying, go, go, go, we need to move. And then you're watching, you know, just then the. The crew having to come in and do lighting and then quiet and, you know, it's. And for. Again, this was me getting to watch these things and learning how efficiently things can run. Cause it was a very efficient set. I rarely went to location. I never got out to Roslyn.

[Jeanine Turner]

Roslyn was so much fun. It was high pressure, that's for sure.

[Rob Morrow]

Let's talk about the episode. So were you able to watch. It's called the Final Frontier.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

Did you remember anything about that particular episode in terms of production?

[Joe Lazarov]

Well, one thing I thought was funny, it was Tom Moore directed and Thomas Moore edited it. We had two Tom Moores. I mean, in terms of production, I don't think I remember doing the adr, I believe, for that episode. I don't think there was a ton of ADR on that. There was a couple of lines. I remember Marilyn saying, he's in there. I remember, like, recording it, like, so many different ways in different words. And we were playing with it because it was one of those fillers. It was a establishing shot of the Fleischman's office. And I think Janine walks in and says, is he here? You know, where is he? And it was just that little moment of not quiet.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. I don't mind. You see, I don't. Don't get me wrong. It's not the fillers that bothered me was when it was. It really didn't fit. You know, it was like there was a. There was a hole there, so I could see it. But what happened a lot of times is we would take a pause in, in the middle of a line and, you know, they would add line. They would add words just to fill that gap. And that, to me, seemed like it, it messed with the rhythm. In the case of where what you're talking about with Elaine adding that, it didn't. You know, I think that's understandable.

[Joe Lazarov]

Did you watch this recently?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, I watched it this morning.

[Joe Lazarov]

All right. So do you remember there was a scene, I think when they were looking. Everybody was looking at the box. Right In Peg's place.

[Rob Morrow]

Ruth Ann's.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah, Ruth Ann's place. There were a couple of times. I think there might have been that type of addition, if you recall. I don't know if it hits you when you watch it.

[Rob Morrow]

It's funny. Nothing jumped out at me there. Or maybe I'm just used to it. But, but the, the other thing that, you know, I mean, again, it. I, I, I always would kind of take issue when they crammed us into a shot to make, you know, to, to, to make it fill the frame, which I think always seemed, I guess, because it wasn't cinematic, you know, it was like an old trope of television was like, it's. They do it. They.

[Joe Lazarov]

They.

[Rob Morrow]

They do it less and less now that once they started to widen, people could be a little. There could be a little distance between them. You didn't have to be two people shoulder to shoulder in a room. Like, it never made sense to me. If two people walk in a room, they're in a giant room and they stand, like, shoulder to shoulder. Like, nobody would stand that way. And they would always argue with me that that's the way it looked best. But I didn't think so because it didn't feel authentic to me.

[Joe Lazarov]

Well, it was interesting how when we did go to a wider aspect ratio that made such a difference.

[Rob Morrow]

It made such a difference, and I prefer it. And by the way, it's the way the eye sees. Much closer to the 185 than the 166, which is the older square version. So there's some interesting things going on in this episode. First of all, we have Ron and Eric, who were two gay characters, which was very unusual. They became regulars on the show. They would appear every season for a number of seasons. And that was controversial. We got a lot of flack in the show in kind of certain circles because they didn't want that on television. And they were great characters. And I think the way they handled it is so, you know, the way they dealt with them. As, you know, when part in the show, you have these people, these Japanese people coming to meet Maurice and to see the town, and because Maurice is a famous astronaut and they're kind of hounding him in the beginning, and they want to get photos with him. And he asks where they're staying, and they say, we're staying at Ron and Eric's place. And he's incensed that he sold them that property and that people would stay there. He's homophobic, Maurice. He's homophobic with a heart and reason. But he says, why are you staying there? He gets really pissed off. And the guy just says, because it's good value, you know, and it's just so, like, you know. Yeah, it's just people are people. That's. That's what that means.

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm always amazed at the things I. I thought. I loved watching John Cullen work as the old time, you know, the master.

[Rob Morrow]

Such great work.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, he's a master of monologues and then. And. But I really appreciated what Barry had to do in this particular episode, which sometimes I have to do, Rob, you have to do it, too. These things that come out of our mouth, you know what I mean, that we have to say to each other. I mean, I call you a rock, a stone, a this or that because you won't do an X ray of the box. And I come in all happy. It's kind of fun to see Maggie looking happy. But the things that came out of Maurice's mouth, can you. You know, just like you're a bunch of fairies and, you know, this and that and all the things that he says. I mean, today people would flip out, but it's a freedom of speech. And they just didn't get upset about it. You know, they were sort of like, oh, whatever, you know, okay. And then at the end, Maurice always kind of finds his respect for them, and it's redeemed in the end. But it's kind of a really cool life lesson of just not taking things so seriously, that somebody might say that it was remarkable how their two characters just never were flustered by it.

[Joe Lazarov]

It. Exactly.

[Jeanine Turner]

They knew it was about him, not about them, and they were just like, oh, Maurice. You know, and then he finds out he was a Marine. He was a Marine. You know, he's like, wait, you were a Marine?

[Rob Morrow]

He says, I particularly hate being bested by fairies. So funny.

[Jeanine Turner]

It's something else. But it worked because there was always. What do you think about all that, Joe? I mean, there was. What was the discussion?

[Joe Lazarov]

And it was. It. You know, it hit. I'm like, oh, my God, I totally forgot in. And then also today, I forgot that people thought that way. That was. What was really interesting, is that there was a. A Maurice, you know, like my dad or, you know, somebody like that who didn't understand. But, you know, and then seeing that everybody else. They don't. Nobody else cares. Nobody. It's their life. Like you said, Rob, you know, and I. It.

[Rob Morrow]

First.

[Joe Lazarov]

It. You know, when he started saying fruits and fairies, I'm, whoa, what's happening? And then I realized, okay, this was 1992, and things were different, but the way it was handled, I thought was really well done. And how Barry played the character and going back to Cullum, that scene on the bench with you, Rob, just him telling how he felt and that monologue that he had, I loved that scene.

[Rob Morrow]

I love those moments, too.

[Joe Lazarov]

And how it left you at the end going, what is he talking about? You know, it was. You know, I don't. I. I get it, but I don't get It.

[Jeanine Turner]

And the bear seemed awfully big, by the way.

[Joe Lazarov]

That was a big bear.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't think the bear was really that tall. I thought surely they did. That looked like a dinosaur. It didn't really look like a. I mean, that was a big bear.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah. I don't. I don't know how that. In prep. How that came about.

[Rob Morrow]

The bones on the ground, when we see them outside for the first time in situ, as they say, were. Didn't look real to me. It looked a little, you know, just looked a little too clean or something. And usually Woody gets that stuff, right. I was surprised.

[Jeanine Turner]

But, yes, the monologue was awesome. And just that monologues were allowed to happen back then and that you have someone as masterful as John Cullum. But I'll just echo it again. I thought Barry Corbin was masterful. I mean, to be able to say those things that he said and for him still to be likable and to kind of have a heart and to turn back around. And the writing, I mean, it's all put together so incredibly beautifully.

[Joe Lazarov]

But the three stories of almost. I don't know if you'd call it adventure, but, you know, from the package, the adventure of the package, the adventure of Jesse and then the adventure for the Japanese tourists. But then how it brought in Barry to. Or Maurice to be a part of something new and. And getting out of his comfort zone, everybody, it's a kind of a comfort zone. And then where Corbett was talking, you know, paddle to the sea, I thought, just kind of tied it all together. And just a question for y'. All. When did. When did Corbett's character, Chris in the Morning, start. Start really being that thematic carrier?

[Rob Morrow]

From the get go.

[Joe Lazarov]

Was it from the get go? Okay, I. I didn't know because I don't remember him being so. Like this one. Reading the book was really, really tied it.

[Rob Morrow]

He did that a lot. And he just. I love the way he does it. I love the. The. The kind of. What they give him to do and how kind of heartfelt and soulful he is when he. When he. When he shares those. Those. When he's reading that book. You know, I mean, that's hard to do. It's just reading a kid's book and it's giving it. You know, it feels cinematic somehow in. In John's hands. And I didn't realize as much as when I watch it now. Like, I watch everyone's performance now with a different. With. With, you know, distance. Now that we're working with Shopify, it really hit me what an essential and frankly cool way this is to connect with fans. Some of you might remember that years ago I published a book of photos called Northern Exposures and I've been thinking about putting it out again. I honestly can't imagine a better way to do that than with Shopify. The fact that they make something like that so easy, getting something personal directly to the people who care, it kind of blows my mind. I mean, I'm genuinely psyched about it. Finding the right tool that not only helps you, but simplifies everything can be a game changer for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world. From household names like Heinz and Mattel to brands that are just getting started. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify will help you build an online store that matches your brand's style. Tackle all your important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or find what platform is hosting the tool you need. Everything is all in one place, making your life easier and your business operations smoother. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com Northern go to shopify.com Northern that's shopify.com Northern welcome to

[Greg Laemmle]

Inside the Art House, the go to destination for cinephiles and the number one place for art house cinema and filmmaker conversations. Each week, today's most visionary filmmakers pull back the curtain on the art of cinema. Sharing how stories are made and why they matter. Hosted by Greg Laemmle of the legendary Laemmle Theaters, a family that shaped the movie business for over a century. And Raphael Sparge, actor and award winning director. Together they explore the creative process, the struggles, the triumphs behind the camera and the bold ideas shaping film today. From indie debuts, documentaries to international art house cinema, Inside the Art House dives deep into a world where passion meets craft and where the love of film lives. Loud Inside the Art House conversations with today's most visionary filmmakers. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rob Morrow]

There's something interesting in the thematically about the episode with everyone's kind of chasing, you know, like Holling is, it's like his white whale, right? You know, he's this Jesse, he's coming to terms with it and this, this MacGuffin of this package that shows up, you know, which is like one of those when they finally open it, Deben gave Tu and I. For my wife, gave us for Valentine's Day this year, this. These balls, right? And you unpeel the ball, and every, like, few inches is a little gift, like a little, you know, stone or a little toy or something. And when you open that box, it's just like each layer has so much in it, and it's such a great thing. And then how the town becomes a part of it and that Maggie wants to open it. And Ruthanne's like, we gotta have a town meeting. Like, they actually have a town meeting to discuss it. And they take those town meetings. I mean, Janine talks a lot about how much she loves those meetings. And. And, you know, they take them. The townspeople take them so seriously. And even Joel, you know, Mr. Cynical, is so, you know, there to defend his position.

[Jeanine Turner]

And. And Corbett saw both sides of it. You know, he saw, well, you should open it. You shouldn't open it. And then he ends with, we should open it. And there's just the philosophy that. That. That the mechanics of that character. I mean, it's from. From a st. Riding standpoint, it's like, oh, always the fact I could have that mouthpiece piece to just be the philosophical narrative. He was narrative, in a way, in this. And. And I thought, boy, we should read story. Little children's books on air and talk about philosophy a lot more in our environment, and we might be a lot better off. Instead of just attacking people all the time, let's delve into some. Some depth of spirit and humanity and philosophy and all those things that we really don't think we need to teach in school anymore, but they're so important for depth of soul.

[Joe Lazarov]

Well, speaking of depth of soul, I think what really resonated is when he was just talking about, you don't have to go to space, just backing out of your driveway, just how to enjoy your life. That was the thing that hit me the most.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, also, the backing out of. It's a leap of faith just to back out of your driveway. Wasn't it something like that, that it may be scary to go to the moon, but it's scary to even back out of your own driveway? And that's true. That was a profound line, I thought.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah, I love that line. That one really woke me up a little bit. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

And then also he talks about. Chris, talks about the curious child that lives in all of us, which I think sums up the episode in a way, Right? That kind of where we're all chasing something. And the time capsule of the box, which is really like a Time capsule that we want. We add such a great thing, a thermometer, that it's been in everyone's mouth, so such a sweet gesture.

[Jeanine Turner]

Curiosity.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. I think that's at the end that that's really what the show's about, is the episode is about curiosity. Right. Holling's curiosity for this nemesis, you know, and our curiosity for the box and the Japanese curiosity of Maurice.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, but the betterment, too, that they wanted to create a better society with their children. And that's what Holling liked so much and could appreciate that they're gonna have sex, you know, under the aurora borealis, to procreate. And because they want to create a better legacy with the next generation. That. That was very thought provoking, too. And I think that's what makes all the characters on Northern Exposure so likable. There seems to be this kind of search of soul.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah. And I think every episode, everybody has their moment, you know, like, this episode was, you know, Hollings and Maurices, for the most part. But, you know, and I liked. Like you said, o' Connell was able to have a light episode and not have so much, you know, it was just this curiosity, like you're saying. It was great to see that.

[Rob Morrow]

Plus, we got. I'm sure Janine and I looked at each other and went, like, three days off. I used to. I got to the point where I could. You know, they were very weird about showing us scripts early, but I knew where they hid them in the office. And so I went. I would go. I would sneak in there, and I would take out the next. The script that was, you know, two down or one and the next one up, and I could flip through it. Like, basically by the end of 102 episodes, I could go like that and say to. And just go four days and know how many days I was shooting.

[Jeanine Turner]

That's so funny.

[Joe Lazarov]

That's great.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I know at the end, you. I think, Rob, you always liked to come in later, because they'd always make me come in first. Toward the end, I was always 5:30 in the morning. 5:30 in the morning? Well.

[Rob Morrow]

Cause you had makeup. I didn't have any makeup.

[Jeanine Turner]

No, I know, but I think a lot of times we weren't even in the same scenes by then. But. Yeah, I can only imagine storyboarding and figuring out when actors have to come in with all the actors going in. I want to come in later. I want to come in earlier. I want to go on vacation. I want to do this.

[Rob Morrow]

I got my makeup down to, like, 78 minutes by the end of the show. That's great.

[Jeanine Turner]

But, you know, there are a couple of questions with the show. What happened to Colum if Jesse wasn't still alive? How did he get so roughed up?

[Rob Morrow]

I know. What was that? I guess he just. I thought that, too. Like, I guess he battled, you know, trying to find him or something.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah, well, they did say no one's ever found the end of the cave, the Widowmaker cave. So he probably just went through the cave and got beat up in the cave. And I'm wondering if we. If we were missing a scene or. You know, sometimes I'm wondering if we ever cut things. That would explain.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, speaking of cutting scenes, it's funny because someone told me somewhere on social media or something, I think Gray pulled it up, or somebody told me. I don't know who, the episode with the bait, and I wasn't in it at all. And we kept thinking, why isn't Maggie holding the baby? Somebody came back and said, you did hold the baby. And those cut scenes are on YouTube.

[Rob Morrow]

I saw that, too.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay. So I don't know where I saw that, but I guess we saw that together. So I guess I was holding the baby and I was cut.

[Joe Lazarov]

Who put cut scenes up on YouTube? Who had the access to do that? I mean, besides Universal, I guess.

[Rob Morrow]

It's in the extras, you know, because they're just looking for anything they had. And I'm sure Janine, it was cut for time more than anything. And they're just like, well, Jeanine only comes on for two scenes and says, you know, I like the baby. And so it's like, okay, you know, I'm sure that was the issue.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, it's no big deal, really. But it was just funny. I just. Cause we can't really remember this far back, you know, but do you have any memories, Joe, of actual looping? Tell us. You know, a fun story about looping and maybe the hardest loop session you ever had.

[Joe Lazarov]

There was an episode, I remember there was just hundreds upon hundreds of lines because of just bad sound, or there was a big adventure. I think it was either hauling and. And Maurice were out in the snow, where we just. It would, you know, just like you. I would have to look at the cues, all the cues that were on the piece of paper, and go, oh, all right. That's three hours with, you know, Rob, and that's two hours with Jeanine. You know, knowing how it got to the point. I knew how fast everybody was. There was a good. I have a good story. With Barry, it was. I think in season. How many? We did five seasons. I think it was season four. It was the flashback. It was the dream sequence where for. For Fleischman going to New York and. And Maurice was the doorman.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, that was beginning. That was like the second. That was way in the beginning.

[Joe Lazarov]

It was the beginning of a season. It was like either season two or season three. I don't.

[Jeanine Turner]

Season two, I think. Yeah.

[Joe Lazarov]

Really? Okay. I just. I remember Barry was upset because there was a little bit he had worked on an accent, the Brooklyn accent. And on the day of shooting, he had done a couple of takes with the Brooklyn accent. They said, just be Maurice. And I think it upset him. And he took it out on me in the room. And it's never me. I know it's not me. It's the situation. And it's one on one. And that's what I love about adr. You can be vulnerable and exposed because it's just. Just me and a. In a mixer. And here you are as an actor looking at your work and going. I mean, I don't know what it would be like. I mean, just looking at my face right now on. On this makes me self conscious. I don't know how you guys do this all the time and see yourself and see your work and see everything you've done. And then. And then I know both of y' all would say, I know there's a better take. I know there's a better take. You'd look right at me and go, there's a better take. And there are a lot of times we'd go back, you know, if it was Martin or Steve or me or whoever came up, we'd come back and say, is there a better take? And sometimes we would change it out.

[Rob Morrow]

Right? Because just let me point out that as the season goes on, when you're making 25 episodes, the compression of time for post production gets less and less and less. So by the end of the season, often the case, right, Joe. They are literally taking then the tape and having to run it over to broadcast that day to get it on air that night. And so what happens is when they're under that kind of pressure, the editor will just throw in a take that works, you know, and then not realize that there's a subtle nuance or. Or we said the line correctly in another take. And, you know, but Janine and I would. Would remember it because we shot it. And I also watched the dailies, so I knew what was there.

[Jeanine Turner]

I did, too. I did too. Because Rob did MC Rob gets to watch the dailies. I get to watch the dailies.

[Joe Lazarov]

I remember that. I remember that.

[Jeanine Turner]

I never told Rob that at the time, but I can tell him that now, 30 years later.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, I knew.

[Joe Lazarov]

But you're right. We were running tape. I. Do you remember, I think it was Rodney King. And then there were the fires and the looting and they shut. They were. I had to stay in walking distance. I stayed in an apartment that was walking distance because we had the curfews to go get a show done. And then I remember I had to drive, breaking curfew. I had to go to CBS with the final tape in my car to get it, you know, because we were on, you know, deadline and, you know, and I would sit and watch the broadcast. Sometimes I would drop it in and, you know, they would. It would be so close to air, like they would. They still had to edit in the commercials. And then they had. I don't know if, you know, from la, we give the tape in LA to CBS Broadcast center, you know, in Beverly. They would then satellite it to New York, which then they would record it. So you lost a generation. And then they would air it out of New York. West coast would then record the feed from New York. So you're like losing, back in the day when it wasn't digital, you lost like three generations from the main look.

[Rob Morrow]

And not only that, but the guy we talked about the timing, the color timing and the mixing. And you guys would spend all this time nuancing those degr. And then some. Some technician in New York would just be told to just turn everything up. And so, you know, all this great work would just get blown out.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, isn't that the interesting aspect of it, that everybody cares about their particular thing? You know, the actors, we care about our performance, the sound, we care about the sound, you know, and then you got the cinematography. I care about how it looks. I mean. And you have the producers saying, well, I care about the general asp of the show and if it's going to get good ratings or not. And. And it's just amazing to me that every. That every. But to me, the beautiful thing is, is when everybody's passionate about their work, the worst thing in the world is to work with an apathetic person. I mean, somebody who doesn't really like, let me just. Let me just line the shot up on a plug. And I mean, that's the worst. I mean, because I feel you're there as an artist to create art and that's why I loved working with you, Rob, so much, and all of you, because we really cared about our work.

[Rob Morrow]

I remember a director saying to me, I think on Northern Exposure, it's just television. And it just. And it killed. I was like, I went crazy because I was like, don't say that, man. It's just television. Meaning, what do you know? Just do. Because that's what's expected. It was such an antiquated idea. Meanwhile, television is a preeminent medium of the day.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, but not only that. You either care about your work or you don't. And if you don't really care about what you're doing, don't do it.

[Joe Lazarov]

Right.

[Rob Morrow]

I agree with you.

[Jeanine Turner]

There's so many people who just kind of phone it in. But I feel that part of the genius of Northern Exposure is that nobody was phoning it in. Whether it was you, Joe, having what you were doing in post, or what we were doing as actors, what Frank Prinze or Jim, you know, what they were doing with lighting and what everybody was doing with sound and music. It was just everybody really cared about. And, you know, that's kind of the wave. You're like, oh, everybody really cares, Cares, cares, cares, cares. And it's a hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. And then, you know, you're on the down slope. You know what I mean? When do people start not caring as much when you're on your 100th episode.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, back in the early days, you know, especially with dramas, comedies had. Had more, more nuance, but the dramas were, you know, they would like, someone like Fred McMurray on My Three Sons would shoot like, all his close ups for the whole season in like three days, you know, and it was just. They put him up against a wa. And so it, it changed. There was a, you know, there was a great comic named Ernie, Ernie Kovacs, who said, why do you think they call it a medium? Because it's seldom rare and it's never well done, you know, because that's the way.

[Jeanine Turner]

More than exposure.

[Rob Morrow]

No, it wasn't. But that's. No, but, Janine, that's my point is that. And I've said before, it was a real transitional time for television, where it was becoming cinema. And. But, but those, those that were left from the old days would say things like, you know, it's just television, you know, like, and you shouldn't care. I want to point out, though, that there was. I think this was the first time there was like a, A full shot. The Japanese people take, go to take a Picture in front of the Roslyn sign. You know, the. The mural, which. You know, there's the. For trivia fans, that. That mural is there. Was there all the time on. On a restaurant. Restaurant. And it was Roslyn Cafe. But Woody, our production designer, deftly added an apostrophe. So it was Roslin's Cafe, based on one of the founders of the town. But it's a great moment because it gets its own. It gets its due.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I just started to think about all the times I would actually eat there, and it wasn't very often. I maybe was in that restaurant maybe two or three times. And all those years.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, we rarely went down there. I don't know why.

[Jeanine Turner]

I was never really down there. And, you know, they did. I noticed Joel, and where it says Joel Fleischman, it's J, O, E. And then that tiny little L. Yeah. You know, for Joel Fleischman. But I also noticed. I loved the directing. I thought Tom did a great job. Is Tom Moore. I think I have all that right. That directed. There was a shot of John Cullen, John Corbett in the radio station looking out a completely different direction that we'd never seen before. Not really. Not during the day.

[Joe Lazarov]

Is that the direction that you walked by and waved? Is it that direction?

[Jeanine Turner]

No, it was the other direction. It was like the windows looking out that way or. I don't know. It was just different. There were a lot of different. Different shots. I really loved the way it was. It was. The shots were.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah, he moved the camera a lot. He moved the camera a lot in

[Jeanine Turner]

this episode, but it wasn't distracting. It wasn't distracting. That took you away from. So I'm gonna go back to Barry Corbin for just a second. So did he wanna keep the Brooklyn accent and they wanted him to get rid of the Brooklyn accent. Was that the. The deal?

[Joe Lazarov]

I think on the day. Yeah, I think he was upset on the. On the day when they asked him not to.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, he. He'd be still upset. He'd be upset now if you brought it up.

[Joe Lazarov]

Right.

[Rob Morrow]

God damn it. I didn't want him to say I wanted to talk with an accent.

[Joe Lazarov]

No, he had a whole backstory. He worked on it. The whole. You know, once he got the script. It was the first one in the season. I. You know, and it was like. I didn't blame him. It's like. I get it. He was so mad. He was just. He's. Because we brought it back up because I had to. To get rid of the. That little. And the one Scene out in front of the apartment building and he got really upset and he said, I worked on this and I did it in the table read and nobody said anything. And then on the day someone came up and he laid into them, to me, he was laying into them.

[Jeanine Turner]

We never had table reads. The only table read I remember was the pilot.

[Joe Lazarov]

No, but I think you did because it was before the season started. I think if you're episode one sometimes you got the table read.

[Rob Morrow]

I doubt it. We didn't do. I, I just remember the first season. The first. And then we never did them again. And I was so grateful because.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, that, that one was magical though because we were all meeting each other for the first time.

[Rob Morrow]

It was great. But, but afterwards, it's just that the time, the time of. That it takes out of your, you know, you have so much, so little time that to do a table read for just to hear words and you know, I, I, I, I, you know, look, I'm in the minority. A lot of writers say they, they find value in them, but I don't understand what value. Most actors are just kind of looking at the script for the first time, so they're not doing it the way they do it. So it shouldn't be considered, you know,

[Jeanine Turner]

29 hour reading for a musical in New York. It's the same kind of thing. You're just, everyone's kind of reading it and you can't really get the music because there's so many songs and they have like.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. I mean, comedy. I understand because comedy is about the jokes and I can see you hear them. But like, like drama, it's just tricky. It's it. So I was glad we never did them. But I just want to point out a great line. You know, I was thinking about Shelly. Shelly was so sweet. You know how she so loves hauling. You know, she's just so, and it's just so pure. Like she just loves him no matter what. Like when, when he says I'm, you know, he's packing his bag. Like, who would like if I came out and my wife was packing a bag saying, I'm going away for a couple days, I'd be like, what, what do you mean you're going away? No, you're not. Where are you going? But she's like, okay. You know. But she says, I love later when she says, being the former mayor's almost wife.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, in the town hall. And she was so excited to do the town hall. So true. That was very. But I also think she had a line when hauling was packing up and she, she got upset. She goes, this really scares me, you know, something along those lines. I don't really know what you're doing. She did that very, very well. I just marvel at Cynthia, you know, because it was like her first, first thing. It was one of her first auditions. She's one of those, she's one of those, you know, I'd been at it for 12 years and just clawing around, you know, stepping over heroin addicts in New York City and climbing up dirt ridden stairs to take my acting classes in New York and rolling around on dusty floors. And Cynthia's like, oh, yeah. You know, I like, got out of college and it was a waitress and I got discovered and this was the first thing I have auditioned. Like, oh my God, she's so lucky. But she does such a good job.

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[Rob Morrow]

Joe, what, what else about the series in general? Any, any insights or things that distinguish or things that you remember that always come back to you?

[Joe Lazarov]

You know, I mean, my biggest, for me, ADR sessions going to Seattle, working with you guys was always. That's the thing that really for me personally kind of resonated through with the rest of my career. But one thing that I did that to, to, you know, for people who are watching this because they want to understand the film business, the one thing that I learned from this, that from every other show that I, I ever worked on, I saw the difference. And that was Josh. Was the final say, just Josh. Even if it was Josh and John, they did it separately. But there was one vision. And I've worked on other shows where they, well, what's the other writer thinking? What's the other producers thinking? There needs to always be one final, you know, the buck stops here. This is what we're doing right or wrong. And Josh was that. And when I did a couple of other shows, there were two showrunners, you know, and then it was always trying to figure it out. And the show sort of was wishy washy because there were two visions. The vision, you know, and not to say Josh listened to what everybody had to say. But he coalesced all the ideas and he put it together and he said, this is.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, and it's funny because I've always, you know, maintained that Josh was the real vision behind the show, and the real voice of the show was Josh's. And, and not to diminish John and his contribution, which was huge. But, but. But Josh always seemed like the guy who was making the decisions.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah, he. In the editing room, it was just Josh for the most part, you know, John. And John would defer a lot. So, you know, it was Josh. But like I said, any editor, any. Anybody sitting in the room, any of us post people. Cheryl, he would listen. I mean, he's very good. And, you know, knowing what's. What's good and what's bad and taking good ideas and saying, that's a good idea and knowing it, that, you know, and I respected that, and I've taken that, too, as, you know, as a director, you know, I'll say on set, you know, unless there's a showrunner that really has a very strong vision, but especially if you. There's a couple of writers on set and they have ideas, it's like, I got this. Let me go with this. I hear you. That's a good idea. But here's the vision of this episode or this show. As a producer, you know, I always want that one vision, and I got it. And I always try to pinpoint it on every show I work on. Who's the vision and who should we be listening to? Who's got it?

[Jeanine Turner]

I agree with that. You know, there's. There's a collaboration that brings the. The God in the details sort of situation that every. If you hire, you know, then everybody delivers. If you cast well and get a great crew, and everybody delivers. And that's so pivotal because if you get one that's out of joint, and I think that's why Northern Exposure works so well, but you do have to have one person in the long run for. For the vision to be fulfilled that has the final say. That's really true. That's interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. Well, Joe, this has been so great, man. You.

[Joe Lazarov]

You.

[Rob Morrow]

I feel like we could go on for another hour easily.

[Joe Lazarov]

Let's go. Let's do it.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, maybe we'll have you back. If you'll come back and. And come back again, I would love to. Another show. If there's a particular show that you, you know, remember and you want to talk, you know, let us know and we'll. We'll Book you for that sounds great, but it's so. I'm so happy you're. You were.

[Joe Lazarov]

You.

[Rob Morrow]

You're such a great guy. I always just really liked you and. And seeing your career blossom and getting to work with you again and bumping into to you at DGA and stuff like that is always great. And you're just a. And I'm glad you're having a good run.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah. And thank you for scriptation, by the way. I know you're big on that, and that changed me in what I do so much.

[Rob Morrow]

Scriptation is a game changer. It's changed everything. It's changed the industry. It's indispensable.

[Joe Lazarov]

It really has.

[Jeanine Turner]

Why don't you explain to our audience what that means?

[Rob Morrow]

Scriptation is an app for dealing with scripts and. And it's a digital app, so you use it on an iPad. And you can write notes and you can add what we call facing pages between each scene, each page. So that you can put notes, you can put diagrams, you can put pictures. I'm a big note taker. As a director, it's ridiculous. As an actor, I'm a big note taker. But the biggest problem that would happen is you'd write all these notes in your script, and then the next draft would come out. And when you're shooting a TV series, there's sometimes four or five drafts. So every weekend, I would spend eight hours a day rewriting my notes. But the coolest thing about scriptation is you hit one button and all your notes seamlessly get transferred to the next draft so you don't have to rewrite anything. And so all that time, I mean, literally changed life. And there's not a director that I. I run into that doesn't, you know, Steven Soderbergh, you know, tells me it changed their lives. It's like.

[Joe Lazarov]

And it's more than that. I mean, that's just the simple spot, right? There's so much more. And as an actor, it'll read you the lines now, and you can. You can rehearse with it and it'll read you the. The other lines.

[Jeanine Turner]

See, Rob, you. You always had Mimi with you. You know what I mean? I never had anybody to run lines with me unless it was my little poodle.

[Rob Morrow]

I didn't run lines with Mimi. I don't. I don't run lines with people. I don't need to.

[Jeanine Turner]

I have to hear it out loud. I'm one of those. To hear it out loud, like if I've got it in my head.

[Joe Lazarov]

Well, Scriptations for you.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, you should check out scriptation.

[Jeanine Turner]

Rob, did you. Were you a part of creating that?

[Rob Morrow]

I mean, I came on early on and helped them develop it and. And then was a real field tester. Because I direct and act. I was able to really kind of give them insights into what was going on, you know, when me using it. And the coolest thing about it was it, the learning curve is really fast. It didn't take me, like, you know, any time to learn how to use. Use it.

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna have to check that out because, you know, and it. I know we need to wrap here, but, you know, it used to be we got the gold, you know, the. The white pages, then you get the pink pages, then the blue pages, then the golden rod pages and the green pages and the lavender pages. And it's funny, I just finished this project and of course, I'm an. I'm a dinosaur in the industry now. Right? It's like. Let me tell you what it was like in the 70s. And so they're like, oh, well, the script needs to be locked. And I said, the script is never locked. You know what I mean? You can show up on the set and get new lines that day. And as we' now, you can even try to change the script in post. The script is never locked until it airs on television or on that movie. Movie screen. But in the day, you know, we would just change out those pages and put, you know, the different colors in. And I don't know really how it works today because my project's not done. I don't really know.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, it's digital. They send it to you.

[Jeanine Turner]

So do they send the. Are they different colors or they just say here's. And here's an asterisk where there's been a change, which is what it used to be on both.

[Joe Lazarov]

That's what it is.

[Jeanine Turner]

It's a different color, too. Do they keep the different colors in scriptation?

[Rob Morrow]

You can have different colors. Scriptation can have. You can have the different colors represented.

[Joe Lazarov]

Yeah, yeah. So you can ask for the colors to be sent and they. They do colors, which is really helpful.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. But usually it's just marked on the front of the script. It says the date of the draft. And then, you know. You know, and it's.

[Joe Lazarov]

There's.

[Rob Morrow]

There's asterisks.

[Jeanine Turner]

You have to go insert it. So scriptation inserts it for you.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. You don't do anything. I mean, it's changed. It's a game changer. But I just want to add to what you were saying. You know, I always say that there's three stages of. Of making something and shooting something. There's this. There's the script. There's the shooting and the editing. And they have nothing to do with each other. You know, that's the way you look at it. Like when the script is something that you work with to get on the floor. And when you're on the floor, you know, and a bus comes, drive. You know, the example of Dustin Hoffman with the Taxi in. In. In Midnight Cowboy, you know, that happened. So you add that, and that becomes something. And then the editor gets a hold of it and should not be looking at the script. They should be looking at what's the story, you know. Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't know if I've told this story before, but when I was filming Taipan, a Dino De Laurentiis movie with Rafaela de Laurentiis in China in 1982 or something. Crazy communist China for three months. But it was with Brian Bratton down. And I go in. In this dress, and he takes my hand. Can y' all see my hand? He, like, takes my hand to dance with me, right? And in looping, they. And I kind of turn into it, right? But in looping, which is adr, where you're adding sounds, which we've been talking about all. All this entire episode, they had me do something just as simple as this. Like, right? And so he took my hand, and without that, it was just, oh, a smile. He's taking my hand. But then when you added the. It changed everything.

[Rob Morrow]

It changed everything.

[Jeanine Turner]

And I've never forgotten it, how that little bitty something made it so different. And it can be used well or could be used horribly. And that's the nuance as well.

[Joe Lazarov]

Every frame counts. That's what I've learned. Every frame of your movie, you need to paint. Every frame is, you know, with sound, with music, with. I mean, every frame needs to be looked at.

[Rob Morrow]

That's a perfect place to leave at. Every frame count counts.

[Jeanine Turner]

Do you want to take a picture or make a picture?

[Rob Morrow]

That's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

There you go too, right? David Fredericks told me that we need to get David Fredericks on the show.

[Rob Morrow]

We got him. He's coming. He's coming in the next two weeks. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, you got him. You got David Fredericks. Y. Oh, that's so cool. I can't wait to see him. That'll be so much fun.

[Joe Lazarov]

A lot of insight there.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. I remember I remember, like, yesterday when he said that to me, so. He's the one who told me that. Yeah. So. All right. Well, Joe, so good to see you again. I agree. I echo everything Rob said. It was wonderful working with you. It was always a joy to see you, and. And you just. Congratulations on your successes. You. You were just a success on our show, and you've continued to be so. And look at you. You're still a lovely, terrific person.

[Joe Lazarov]

Well, thank you for having me, and it's great to see you guys, and you have a big place in my heart from all the experiences I had with you, so thank you.

[Jeanine Turner]

A lot of formative years for us, right?

[Joe Lazarov]

A lot of formative years.

[Jeanine Turner]

All right, good deal. Thank you, Judge. Thanks, Rob. Thanks for watching, too. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button.

[Rob Morrow]

That's right.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay, well, we're signing off, and we'll see you next week. But for now, we're signing off. And it's. It's oconnell and Fleischman.

[Rob Morrow]

I think you were about to say Fleischman o', Connell, which is what I think it should be.

[Jeanine Turner]

In your dreams, Fleischmann.

[Joe Lazarov]

Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen

[Jeanine Turner]

Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

[Rob Morrow]

When you host with Cutwater canned cocktails, expect company. Entertain effortlessly.

[Joe Lazarov]

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[Rob Morrow]

Copyright 2026 Cutwater Spirits, San Diego, California.

[Joe Lazarov]

Enjoy responsibly.