A (3:19)

And I really liked this episode. I just thought your work was sincere and honest and intriguing. And it shows our character vulnerabilities of our characters, but also the willfulness that both of us have. It's like we try. We're trying. It's like we're trying. We kind of have this ying and yang and this thing going on. But it was a great episode because we had Diane Froloff who showed up Maurice's, you know, the police officer.

B (3:51)

Not Froloff. Diane Delano.

A (3:53)

That's what I mean. That's right.

B (3:55)

Diane delano, who's deceased. R.I.P. diane.

A (3:59)

Yeah. We exchanged Christmas cards forever. I loved her. Sorry, Diane.

B (4:03)

This episode is called Our Wedding. It's from season three, episode 21, directed again by Nick Mark, who we had on the show, again, directed by our producers and the writing team of Diane Froloff, who you just mentioned, and Andy Schneider. And we've got Valerie Mahaffy as Eve and Adam back, and Richard Cummings again, who we had week as our guest.

A (4:25)

Nobody was in there. We had Valerie, we had Adam, we had. We every. We. The whole. The whole kind of reoccurring cast.

B (4:33)

It's a fun show. I'll read the little synopsis, which I know people like to be reminded of. So it's called Our Wedding, and it. Adam prepares to marry Eve at his bachelor party. The men ruminate on the differences between men and women. Meanwhile, Eve lets an enthusiastic Shelly take over wedding plans, and Maggie and Joel try to finish what they started in June.

A (4:57)

Well, there you go. That one didn't give it all away. That must be the shorter version.

B (5:01)

That's the plot one. Yeah, yeah.

A (5:04)

Because last week it was a spoiler alert. But I thought, gosh, I thought Cynthia did a great job of being excited about the wedding. Shelley and Colum having the guilt trip about it. And then Adam and Eve and back and forth. And Rob, you're Stuck in the middle of that. And even Elaine, you know, Marilyn, all of her reactions. And we had Chris, of course, doing the. John Corbett doing the wedding. And that beautiful saying at the wedding, at the end. And will they. Won't. It's all this. Will they? Won't they? Will Holling and Shelley ever get together? Will Fleischman and o' Connell ever get together? Will Adam and Eve ever get together? And it was just delightful. But I also thought that, again, all those Aragami. The lighting was beautiful. The Aragami was beautiful. It was just a really, really terrific episode. And so when you want to narrow down. I'll toss it to you for a sec, but I want to narrow down our scenes because I remember some of those.

B (6:03)

Yeah, I mean, the cranes were beautiful. I mean, the set, like, I keep. I was looking at the set when you come into the church, and you see those thousand cranes, which is a traditional, I think, Japanese for good luck. A thousand cranes hanging from the ceiling. You know, it was so pretty. And then the costumes and how all the different secondary and tertiary colors were used, and the men in those kind of silver pewter suits, and the women in that kind of pink, purple, kind of floral looking, you know, pastel color. You and I. And everyone looks so great. And you. You had a different hairdo. You have these bangs. And there was something about the. The light, which we'll talk to our guest about the way it was lit and the color of the dress that just brought out your eyes. Your eyes were just, like, wildly, you know, you look so beautiful. And I remember. I remember, think when we were shooting it, you know, I was just, like. I was able to step back, but. But then seeing it again, it was. There was some really great photography going on.

A (7:13)

I just want to add to that, though, that I thought you were extraordinarily handsome in the show, too, you know, And. And your hair was kind of longer. My hair's getting longer. And. And we just. I just. There was just such a sensuality about it all, and I really. I really loved what went. The writing. Thank you, Andy and Diane, you know, that happened between the two of us. And that sexy scene on the couch, of course. So the couch scene where I come in and say, let's go ahead and do it. And you're like, really? I'm like, yeah, let's do it. And then we kind of, you know, start the preliminaries of that. And then I find out that you really desire me. And then I want to stop it. Which was, like, crazy, right? But there was something. The thing that I think makes the show work is the way all of us as cast members could play the underlying yin and yang of it. The emotional layers we bring behind that. Can you imagine? You were so forgiving and had such sensitivity, as well as being perturbed. You know, I'm talking about the layers. The layers of the onion. And in that scene where I'm kind of leading you on and I hear that, you know, you want me, and I want to go. That could have come off as really coarse. You know, that could have come off as that, like I was taking advantage of you and that I was kind of cruel or whatever. But the way I played it, which I don't even remember anything about it. I was watching, wondering how it ended. Cause I really didn't remember, which. Just kind of with this innocence. It's like this fresh, sweet innocence. And I think that that made it work. And you don't always see that out there in acting today. You know, if you were to look at that, you would say, do you want me? Do you want me? Do you want me? Fine, I'm gone. But I was just like, oh, Fleischman, you know, do you want me? It was just so sweet that you couldn't really get mad at her. And then you were so sweet. I couldn't really. Do you know what I'm talking about?

B (9:03)

I do. I know what you mean. And I like. I think innocence is a good way to do. I felt that there's the moment in the bar. I think it's the first time we see each other in the episode. And you're still kind of coquettish a little about, you know, thinking that we slept together. And the way you. You put your hair behind your ear, and you just have this sweet kind of innocence about. About this. And. And it's such a contrast to the way we think of Maggie in the world, you know? And so, you know, to your credit, it brings makes with Maggie, because you're just like, what is this little girl coming up? You know, she's just a little girl wanting, you know, to fall in love. And it's sweet.

C (9:50)

There's a lot of.

B (9:51)

Lot of great, great moments.

A (9:53)

But you had it, too. And Rob and I thought you just handled it beautifully. And the smoking of the cigar scene, I thought was excellent. When you're talking about women and how confusing they are, it was just beautifully. Beautifully written. But, you know, for the actors out there that are listening, it's just so. And I just recently cast something. It's always fascinating to watch people who bring a completely different take on it, you know, something that. That's going from sort of their own. And, you know, I'm sure Nick Mark directed us too and guided us and whatnot, but just to not always hit the nail on the head, to not bring the obvious to it, to kind of bring all these other layers underneath.

B (10:30)

You're right, it's tricky. It's tricky to do. And it's so refreshing when you see, you know, there's such pressure in making these kind of shows when you're just going in week in, week out, week in, week out, that to take a chance and to go against the grain, you know, and to get other people to sign on board with it is always a, you know, you have to be really determined. And Eve does that a lot. I mean, she's got these such Valerie Mahaffy RIP as well. God, they're all going. Janine. I know Valerie Mahaffey passed away this year, I think. And you know, when she. I think you have a scene with her on this street. Is it you? And. And then she walks and she crosses the street and walks toward the brick and she just keeps.

A (11:17)

No, that's with you.

B (11:18)

Oh, was it.

A (11:20)

How can you take advantage of her like that? How did you even know?

C (11:25)

Right?

B (11:25)

And then Adam and she says, Adam tells. Adam knows, of course. But then she walks across the street and she's definitely kind of, I think, ad libbing these kind of like, you know, frustrated, like she's talking to herself and she's. She's so adorable. But that kind of thing too, it brings such, you know, brings you into the character so in a way that you don't expect.

A (11:47)

Everybody had their vulnerabilities, right? You had your vulnerability. Maggie had her vulnerability. Adam had his vulnerability. She had her vulnerability, which really, I think surfaced when she was trying to figure out whether to walk down the aisle or not. Shelly had her vulnerability. Column had his vulnerability. Everybody had their vulnerability, vulnerability. And I, I think that was really, really fun. And again, we were sort of. The engine was cranking right. We're now into the end of the third season. The engine was. There was a comfortability about it all. I'm so excited about our guest today. You want to introduce Dave? Dave Frederick. I always call him David.

B (12:21)

Yes. I guess you've already given it away, but I, I will do that.

A (12:24)

Okay, well, sorry. Sorry.

B (12:26)

It's all right.

C (12:26)

It's okay.

B (12:35)

David J. Frederick, we know him as Dave, was the. A camera operator on Northern Exposure for, I want to say, the whole series he is now a director of photography and has shot for so many amazing things. I'm looking at the IMDb now. He's got something called between the Fall and Rise. He's got something called Paul Henri Beyond Victor Laszlo. He did Soul on Fire. He was a visual effects producer. J. Kelly which I love and want to talk about. He was a second unit director of photography Business people the Age of Disclosure which I loved. A documentary I think I've talked to you Janine about aliens and oh, did you do that?

C (13:18)

I did.

A (13:19)

Oh my gosh, we have so much to talk about. That'd be part two.

B (13:23)

Reagan Survivor, FBI International. His list goes on. And ever he's he's, he's right up there around Janine and my age and so he's done. He's just non stop working Steadicam on Get Shorty. It goes on and on and we just adore Dave and we're so happy to have you here buddy. How are you?

C (13:42)

Well thank you very much. That was a nice intro. Jeanine and Rob, it's so well number one a treat to have been invited to join the Disclosure because what a great term too and just to see you guys, I mean just and listen to your preamble there because I just absolutely adored that episode. I watched the Sicily episode a little more but because that one was the one I got to show my stuff as a director of photography in second unit and do the silver threads and the tapestry of the episode do all of those great moments and I'm certain you've talked about that on some podcasts but this one in particular and there's so many funny little hooks because okay first Rob and I met in New York before Northern Exposure on a New York stage and film short and I got, I was getting married back then my then pregnant fiance who is now my ex wife she and I went sailing out to Shelter island to get married by a local judge as we eloped on the sailboat I bought from Morgan Freeman. Many sidetracks on that story but anyway

B (15:01)

that's right I remember it's all coming

C (15:03)

back to me while I was there. I am checking to see if my guest his going to come up. My best man so to speak. And the funny thing because this is a wedding related story, my best man is on his way taking the train out from New York and my best man was a guy who was a camera assistant who I worked with all the time, Greg Collier. And so Greg Collier. I checked my answering machine and listened to the tape and then I Had to make the call to see. He said he's on his way. But there was this call from this director of photography I'd worked with on that New York stage and film show named Frank Prinze, who wanted to know if I was available to come and operate on this TV series in Washington, which is one of the few states I had not been to. And I was like, wait, so you weren't there? At the beginning, I came with Frank, not with Heyman. Right. And then I didn't stay there with Gordon either, because Gordon had other ideas, and I was okay with that.

A (16:10)

Well, I missed you, let me tell you that much.

C (16:12)

And I miss being there, a part of you. So on the answering machine was that call from Frank. So I called him. And then, of course, when Greg showed up, I said, hey, guess what, buddy? We're going to do a show called Northern Exposure. And so that was kind of an exciting way. And then quickly wrapping up this little anecdote, my new bride and I go there and what do we need to do? We need to get clothing in order to winter up in the mountains of Snoqualmie and up in the Northern Exposure zone. It wasn't, you know, the fake Dalasque, as we fondly called it. So we go to the local rei, which I think one of the first ones. And who do I see across the clothing racks but you? Rob. Rob. And you're like, holy shit. And you used to call me Davey all the time. Davey, what are you doing here? And I was like, well, I'm on the Northern Exposure show with you. You were like, holy shit. And the face lit up, and it was just so wonderful. And I knew I was kind of in a new, wonderful home for a while. And it was a wonderful home. I had a baby, and you guys, you know, you came to the shower, and Jeanine, through the baby shower. The story, and this is a wonderful little additional anecdote, is that on our crew, we had the first ad, an accountant, myself. A second ad Sorry, the second ad, Rob. A transpo guy. Yeah. Billy. Billy. Billy Powell, whose dad was the transport coordinator. He was a camera truck driver. And maybe one other one, I can't remember, we're all having babies within two weeks of each other.

B (17:47)

Wow. That's right.

C (17:49)

And Janine through this. Beautiful. Absolutely. And it was CO ed. So I walked into that room and I never felt so much estrogen, just delightfully, just weaving through the whole world. It was amazing.

A (18:03)

That's a great way to do that.

C (18:04)

So that was the way to show up on that show. And then, of course, it was a wonderful thing. Every single thing. And this episode was terrific. And you guys were talking about all the different couples. And the story really was, of course, about Ashley playing Adam. I've kept in touch with him. I worked with him a lot probably after that. Adam and Eve, as well as Holling and Shelley, and then Maurice and Barbara was her name.

B (18:35)

Yeah. Symansky. Yeah.

C (18:37)

Yeah. And then obviously you guys. So it was a really cleverly written premise.

A (18:42)

Yeah, they blended it well, didn't they? They blended those. It was seamless. It was just seamless.

B (18:47)

I love that Adam wanted a traditional wedding. That, to me, jumped out. It's like, he's such a. He's so f. Full of contradictions.

C (18:55)

So we know what the timeline of how long ago this was is because there's a physical representation of my son Colin, who was then born. And he was. I was. And he's just turned 34.

B (19:07)

Oh, my God.

A (19:08)

You know what I remember? I remember, David, you were on the show and you had a birthday, too. There's so many things. I don't know if you've been listening, but I talk about you so often. I quote you all the time. I'll tell you why.

C (19:19)

But.

A (19:19)

But I remember that you had your birthday, and I think you were 33, and you said the. The year Jesus died. I just remember that.

C (19:28)

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. I was 33.

A (19:31)

I'm 30. Was it. Didn't Jesus die at 33? But it's like the year Jesus died. And I'm like, oh, wow. And I just remember. I. So I guess you were 33 at some point when we were together. I mean, Rob and I hit 30. I think we were about. I think I was still 29 when we were filming this, but I guess you were somewhere in the two years we were together. You hit your 33rd. 30. Do you remember that?

C (19:52)

Yeah. The Jesus year, that. My sister was always calling it that.

A (19:54)

The Jesus year. Okay.

C (19:57)

And then the funny thing about you asking me to comment on. And we'll talk about the show and I'm delighted to. The wedding is that. Okay. So I went many years. So Colin's mother and he had another brother who was also born on a TV series in Hawaii called Marker with Richard Grieco for UPN. But that was in 95. Then so many years go by, and then it's like 27 years or so. But we did finally get separated and then divorced. And then I met this young lady who. We just got married on December 27th. And we went to Prague, and this is her. And we rented costumes from the.

A (20:42)

Oh, my goodness.

C (20:43)

From the studio. The Baran Dolph Studio and the Age of Innocence and paraded around. And she's beautiful. Yep. Jenny McShane. Gorgeous lady and very talented actress in many movies. But now she does visual effects.

A (20:59)

Were you a single for all those years in between?

C (21:02)

Let's just say not married.

A (21:03)

Not married. Well, yeah.

B (21:05)

Okay.

A (21:06)

That's a very Northern Exposure type of term fits with this show. Well, congratulations. And you know, David at Robbie Field. Just indulge me for a second. You've heard me say it a thousand times. But, David, it was right about this episode, probably this episode. Cause it was before Cicely. It probably was this episod. I knew I was going to be doing cliffhanger. Right. Or right around. I knew. I think I was negotiating for cliffhanger. And then there's this amazing story about how I got out of Northern Exposure for Sicily because they weren't going to let me out. So it was Sicily when I knew I had it for sure. But I went and bought these cameras. You probably don't remember this at all. It was a Canon camera, and I had interchangeable lenses. And I'm on the set with you, and you look down at me, and I've quoted you a thousand million times when I teach students and whatnot. But it's like, do you. And you see, said to me, remember, do you want to take a picture or make a picture? Do you remember saying that to me?

C (22:00)

Yeah, of course I still say that. It's the whole idea of actually committing to what? Height? Not just. I mean, with selfies and iPhones and all the other ubiquitousness of that kind of digital photography, now it's a different story. But still, you can still make a photograph. You don't just take. It's like grabbing. Now, sometimes you need to grab an image.

B (22:23)

So wait. So elaborate. Elaborate. Cause Janine has said this many times, and I know what it means on the surface, but for our audience, elaborate. What you mean by make a picture versus take a picture.

C (22:35)

It's a creative decision. It's a creative instinct. Instead of grabbing just a frame, like centering somebody in the frame, it's like, okay, what is the element of a photograph that best tells the story? Is it the angle? The width of the field of view? So what lens are you gonna choose? What are your expos. What is. And specifically what height? Do you want to get low? Do you want to emphasize somebody? You want to get high? Look down on it. Go. Move in closer, go in wider. Things that you need to think about when you embrace committing something to an image that you will either love. I mean, this example right here, now, that is a photograph that was made versus just taking.

A (23:20)

Oh, yeah, like the depth of field with all the arches. You know, I. I really love that.

B (23:26)

It would be the rhetoric of that, you know, of that photograph is. It's. It's the metaphor of the future, you know, of those. Those arches that you're going through. You know, there's such rhetoric in that, the repetition. When I say rhetoric, I mean repetition of. Of symbols and things like that, and

C (23:45)

it translates to cinematography. And as a cinematographer, that's. That's the constant dialogue in your head. And one of the cinematographers I've worked with, David Mulle, has now been bringing delight. I think he's doing Etoile now. But we worked on Get Shorty Together.

B (24:04)

That's where you worked with Adam.

C (24:06)

And that's where. One of the places I worked with Adam, I would watch him with the director's finder, looking at it and then holding his chest and ruminating, just. And I could see him running film clips in his head of different things that he's seen in order to have an impression and how to best do it. And I'm sitting there as the camera operator with the dolly grip going, oh, my God, is this going to take another 10 minutes? Because we want to get going. We know exactly what we're going to do and what the. You know, what we need to do in order to get, you know, the day made. You know, in the sense that that's a whole nother thing. It's like in television, you learn to hone your craft with precision and speed.

B (24:46)

Yeah.

A (24:46)

And that's what we had to learn as actors, too. And I ended up taking all these pictures in Italy when I was filming Cliffhanger that I blew up because it was film, and you can. Huge. There's one right here and one downstairs and all that. And as you just. I. You taught me that.

C (25:00)

I was thrilled to hear that when you came back and talked to me about that.

A (25:03)

Yes. And I showed you all the pictures, I'm sure.

C (25:06)

Right.

A (25:07)

You taught me that. And I think that's what you and Frank did for the two years you were with the show. It was like every shot was beautiful. And when you left, I got so mad when a shot would be set up on an electrical cord coming out the back. You know, there just wasn't the. The kind of artistry given to actually creating and setting the shot to something beautiful. And when I directed, I remembered you, you know, and there was. There was a shot of these windmills and these old dirt roads, but there was a sunflower on the left hand side. And the cinematographer that I was working with had framed it out. And I said, oh, no, no, no, frame that, frame that. A bit of that sunflower, you know, on the left side. So you taught me that, David, but

B (25:46)

also taught me a lot. I mean, if you remember, Dave, I was always hanging out in the camera room. Like that's where you would find me on the wheels, you know, playing with the wheels, trying to learn how to write my name, you know. And you guys, you were so generous with your knowledge. And I learned a lot. I mean, I had already studied photography, but I became a director shortly after. And a lot of it was stuff that you would share with me why something was being done, why something was being shot that way.

C (26:16)

I'm very honored by both of your comments on that. Thank you. And it's a collaborative. Truly is a collaborative business. I mean, the success of it is the collaboration of all of the work. And when you look at Northern Exposure episodes, you see the incredible work of Woody Crocker and Ken Berg, the production designer, Woody Crocker, and then Ken Berg, the art director, who I then worked with on Felicity. Just on my entry to Los Angeles, I did a couple years on Felicity as the camera operator, and Ken was just an amazing person building all the trebuchets and that. Oh, I actually. So I ran into John Corbett and we were like our jaws drop, big hugs. And it was just so great to talk about that. And so we're texting back and forth, and I sent him a clip from the Trebuchet episode. And just that whole magical, insanely clever machine that that art department made, they

B (27:17)

actually brought people over from London to build that. They assisted, but they had some real experts that they had to fly in. And a guy named John Wayne, something, his name literally John Wayne, was brought to build it.

C (27:30)

And they had the three. There were three takes which we flew a weighted coffin. And there was one practice that they did after they set it up and did, you know, all four of those caskets were on top of each other? What do you mean they flew through the air? They flew through the air and they landed in the exact same spot.

B (27:49)

Oh, wow. So the precision.

C (27:51)

Yeah, the precision and accuracy of that, you know, historic, perfectly maniacal war machine was just so well done.

A (28:00)

It's the great line from that. It's not what you fling, it's the fling itself.

B (28:04)

It's so true, isn't it?

C (28:06)

Yeah.

B (28:12)

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C (30:13)

That went on some. Yes. And then there were, you know, and I guess then you started throwing things at him. And the one thing I noticed is you had the band aid over your left eye. But yeah, the thing that hit you was over here. So I was like, oh, okay.

B (30:27)

Oh, wow. I didn't catch that. That's funny.

C (30:30)

But one inch, one inch and you could have taken an eye out. But that, the preamble to that was the scene when you were coming out in Ruth Lynn's. Ruthann's. Ruth Anne.

B (30:43)

Ruth Anne. Ruth Anne.

C (30:44)

Ruth Ann. And that was one thing I wanted to talk about was these amazing 300 foot long dolly shots that we would. There would be the moment that you would have to pause and then we'd go back and oh, the reverse angle on it. And that was how we got through our days. Cause we did these huge. And those are like three page dialogue scenes, if not more.

B (31:07)

And they were fun to act. That one has me coming out of my office, takes me all the way across the street and then we pick up and it just keeps going on and on. And then I think it even reverses back. They were hard to set up. They took a long time because back then it was tracks and weds. And it made it so cinematic because

C (31:32)

it wasn't just cuts and it wasn't just the camera. It was also the bfls, which is the big fricking lights that were on. Also a dolly moving in the old days like on Giant and how the west was Won and those things when you had these beautiful lighting things and were doing exterior shots. And so that was pretty amazing.

B (31:54)

And you get to see the town, you see the dogs come through. There's so much life in the tent.

C (31:59)

And we orchestrate the wipes. The guy with the ladder, just as we're going this way, the ladder's going that way. And yeah, pretty amazing. So that was pretty great. But George Santo Pietra, I wanted to run that.

B (32:11)

Yes.

A (32:11)

I was just thinking about George Santo Pietra.

C (32:13)

George. The dolly grip just was so. Well, number one. One of the strongest guys in Seattle. Just his arms were thicker than my legs. But he was one of the most talented dolly grips I've ever worked with historically. And just a terrific gu.

B (32:31)

And a great guy. Yeah.

A (32:32)

You know, and you get, you get so spoiled. When we had the luxury of working with one another. Some of the greatest writers. Great, great cast, great crew, great cinematographers. And then you do things later and it's just like you watch how things fall apart and they don't work the

C (32:49)

way they miss the magic.

A (32:50)

They miss the magic. They miss the magic. And I'm editing something right now like, oh, you know, we didn't get that camera shot. You know, we missed the magic. And the magic was there. It's a way, it's a wonderful way of putting it with the great that we had. And I was getting my hair done right before this episode and she hadn't seen Northern Exposure before. And we, Rob and I, you walked, you and I walked out of Ruth Ann's store and had our, you know, walk and talk. And I said to her, this is an iconic Fleischman o' Connell type of scene. Because we had so many of those, didn't we, Rob?

B (33:21)

Yeah. And they were so precise. Because you had to. If one of us messed up a line, it was back to one. And you'd look at George Santa, you'd look at his eyes and think, you know, and it was either freezing or boiling. And he'd have to push that. How much does a dolly with a camera and rig weigh? I mean, what, Like a lot, right?

C (33:40)

Well, I was skinnier back then, but. Well, we had the camera and those were something called pipe dolly. So there was a. It was a sled that had roller skate wheel chassis things that then the whole thing would go on there. So the dolly would go on that. Because, no, you don't want to run the railroad track with all the wedges and stuff. You want to put down the big wide platform. Because typically also the sound man will be on that with the boom.

A (34:05)

Glenn. Glenn. Sound. I called him Glenn. Glenn.

C (34:07)

Yeah, Glenn. Yep, yep.

B (34:08)

And the dolly grip is pushing the whole thing. I mean, usually a couple guys, they had. They're. They're. They're. He's got help. They have the pipes coming off the side.

C (34:16)

Right, right. Especially if it's a fast move, because that's the better way to do the fast moves. And so. Yeah, so that. George was. Was terrific. But then somebody else I wanted to shout out to was our first ad, Jim Charleston.

A (34:29)

Oh, he was wonderful.

C (34:31)

Was just. And he's a director as well at this point. But you did. Yeah. Oh, good. But I don't know if some of. Talk about Qu. You know, Janine, you were fond of the quotes. And one I use also is. Well, his. Because you said. Whether or not it's. When we're shooting on location there. One of his things would say, hurry up, the pass is closing.

A (34:51)

Yes, I was just gonna say that. He would say that the pass. The pass is closing.

C (34:56)

We gotta go. We gotta go. Because at one point I think we did. I mean that. I don't know if that season or one of the other ones we did. Actually, the pass did close and we had to stay over. And the following day, and this is another credit to a production designer, Crocker, the following day we had to shoot in your office or Ruth Lynn's store. Ruthann store. And they were able to. Or the radio station able to jump into on location studio filming.

B (35:28)

Right. Because they had three or four sets that were reproduced on soundstages. My office, Ruth Ann's. And the radio Station. So you could shoot either, depending on the schedule and logistics, you could either shoot scenes in interior on location, or you could shoot them on this, on the soundstage.

C (35:48)

And it was like. And the furniture had to be trucked back and forth. So the lead department, you know, in the art, the set decorators. I don't think there was two sets of your version of the famous desk, you know, in the president's office, but, you know, your desk and all the other stuff that's in there. Yeah, the Resolute desk.

B (36:08)

Good for you.

C (36:10)

But the other thing that he said that I always use is. Let me check my list of excuses. That's a Jim Charleston original.

B (36:18)

I love that. I'm gonna steal that one.

A (36:21)

That's really good.

C (36:23)

No, if the producer was going, Jim, why are we going? What's going. Let me check my list of excuses.

A (36:27)

Yeah. It is so rare. It's so rare to find a first assistant director who's basically the one who runs the show. You know, he's the one, the ship, the trains run on time with the first assistant director that has a sense of humor, that can just execute it in such a way that everybod feels comfortable and yet it gets done at the same time. He was, he was a true, true gem. He really was. And I want to talk about, you know, Greg, who did the focus pull and how different it was back then. I mean, I mean, you know, now they shoot a laser at you, but back then it was actually, you know, taking this tape, the tape, cloth, tape measure, cloth, tape measure out to measure it. And then, you know, Frank would come up with his little light, you know, and go like this. And it was just so different. And I was watching the show with my hairdresser again, who had never seen the show.

C (37:14)

I.

A (37:14)

And, and I like, look at the beauty of film. Look at the beauty of film. I still don't think we've talked about this, Rob and I, but you can't really replace it. But just. I kind of miss all that old fashioned stuff, you know. Now this, now it's like they put a laser point, a laser laser at you, and it's a little bit different. It's. It doesn't kind of have the charm it used to have. But Greg always just did the camera pulling.

C (37:36)

Yeah, he was great. Well, I kind of brought him along with me. He turned me down on Driving Miss Daisy, which was my last job as a focus puller, because he had a bunch of commercials to do. But he did a bunch of movies with me as my second Assistant. And then I knew him as a good focus blow so I could pop him up into B camera. And then it was a natural for me to say, hey, come and do this TV show with me.

B (37:58)

Greg was a great guy. He was part of the family, and

C (38:01)

we just loved him. I introduced him to his girlfriend there, which became. They're still married. Sandra.

B (38:06)

Sandra. They're still together. It's amazing. Yeah. We had Mimi on a couple episodes ago, and she was talking about. About that.

C (38:12)

Yeah. Yep, that was me. I did that because I thought she was great. And I was like, yes, I did. But, Rob, there's one thing that we're talking. We're patting each other on the back, and I wanted to say one thing. And I use this as a teaching moment when I talk to. I do a lot of. A variety of different teaching things at a lot of the universities and at the NAB and wherever they ask me, what's the nab? NAB is national association of Broadcasters. And so it's a big Las Vegas. Fills the entire convention center, Every floor space available of all the tech and it's broadcasting and all that stuff. So I do for Chapman Leonard, the big Dolly and Crane Company. I do how to break down a script from script to screen and put it on stage and what equipment you're going to need. And when you break it down for either stunts or romance, comedy, whatever it is, the scene, just do a scene. And just what does it take to do it?

B (39:09)

You're talking about from a technical perspective.

C (39:12)

Yes, artistic. Technical perspective, as a direct. And because we're responsible in our prep, you know, for getting all that stuff orchestrated, you know.

B (39:20)

Right. Cause you have to order, right? What camera equipment, what lights you might need, all that. Yeah.

C (39:25)

Yep, yep, yep. And so one of the things I always. And I impress. And even on this last film, it's like working with the actors. It is so critical, the relationship, to be able to understand the creative potential. Because this business is so myopic. Everybody is in it for their own game. And it's like, I worked with one DP on a thing, Women's Murder Club. And I came back from a lot, from getting my Steadicam ready, and all the lights were in the frame. And I said, john, how am I gonna keep that stuff out of frame? I've got a walk and talk five shot of, you know, and of all these, you know, Cynthia Nixon was one of them and a bunch of actors anyway, and he goes, david, boom. Up. And I was like, what? You know, and he goes, it's a selfish business. Cause he goes, I have five women I have to make gorgeous, and I need all of these little, you. What do you call the Chinese lanterns? Because that's the soft light he liked to use. But anyway, selfish business. So I'm just going back to it. So what I learned from you, Rob, was that in deference to. Everybody has their preparation, everybody needs to have their ingredients to what is going to make it work for them. So everybody doesn't realize, but when you're not on the set, you're learning your lines, you're working out what you're going to do when you're in front of the camera. And that's a lot of concentration. And to not respect that is completely crazy. So I think you had a longer turnaround for some reason or the other. Thank God for the 12 hour turnaround.

B (40:59)

Thank God for the 12 hour turnaround. Well, that means that actors get through, mandated through our union, Screen Actors Guild, SAG, AFTRA. We get 12 hours from when we leave the set to when we have to be back.

C (41:11)

Or they pay a lot of money.

B (41:12)

Or they pay a lot of money. And I remember when I was a really good. I would like be so grateful to get those, those forced calls. They're called because she'd pick up $1,000 for, you know, and I'd always be like, yeah, I'll take it, I'll take it. But then at a certain point you're like, no, I'm not doing any force calls because you, you, you can't breathe. You know, you need, you need, you need to, to rest and learn all your lines for the next day.

A (41:35)

And it gives, it gives, as Dave, Dave is saying, it gives the crew a little bit of time too.

C (41:39)

But so anyway, so we're, we're all at our call time and there's a new director, and I'm not gonna remember his name, but a younger, young and not so new because experience. But he was a TV director and he was a guy who knew he had to get his day done. So Rob had a later call and was, you know, so we were assembled and typically so everybody knows is we have a rehearsal, a blocking rehearsal, you know, actor, director rehearsal and a blocking rehearsal and then a technical rehearsal, you know, so everybody gets called in all the keys and everybody gets to watch it so that we can see where, you know, the microphone has to go and where the lighting is going to go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so the director wanted to jump right in and do all that stuff. And he goes no, no, I have all this broken down. It was a scene in your office on the stage. And so, I mean, that for us, lighting was pretty easy. We had these gigantic maxi brutes that would go through, like, three layers of diffusion and then big flags that would block off to make it shadowed and shape it. So all the lights, the walls weren't too bright. But here's the. What happened was Rob finally comes to set. He's in his costume, I believe, and he shows up on set. And the director had the ball, and I recommended against it. I swear to God, Rob, I recommend it. Against it. And I said, rob's not going to like this. He goes, no, no, no. And he worked with Peter. Peter White, I believe, your stand in for years.

B (43:06)

That's his last name. We couldn't. Last weekend, I was trying to. He showed up in the last episode, they let him have a scene, and I couldn't remember his last name. Griffin. Great guy. Peter White.

C (43:14)

Wonderful. And he knew you. And he was like, oh, my God. He looked at me like, I'm gonna get in trouble. I said, don't worry, it's not your fault. So the director says, yeah, are you gonna be over here? And you're gonna go over there? And they're okay now. Start to light it. And you want. And then. And then. And their second ads. And he would say. And he called for Marx. The director called for Marx. And Marilyn was there. But, you know, it's just, you know, you just had three moves. You walked in, Rob, you took one, you said hello to everybody. And then you look down in the tape and there is your. I think you were red because you were number one on the call sheet. Do you know that red is always number one? Right?

B (43:51)

I didn't realize that.

C (43:52)

Yep. And blue is number two. And so you were probably always blue, I think. Do you remember, Janine, what color your marks were?

A (44:00)

I don't. I know. I was number three on the call sheet because I think Barry was technically.

C (44:02)

Oh, you were three?

A (44:03)

Yeah.

C (44:03)

Oh, okay.

A (44:05)

Wonder what.

C (44:05)

I was yellow.

A (44:06)

Yellow. Okay. I was yellow anyway.

C (44:08)

I mean, that's kind of one of those little things. But. So you walk in, you eyed. You saw the marks down there, and you said, oh, you did this with Peter. Okay, well, Pete, you got the side. You know the lines. You do the scene. You walked out and you just turned the back and you just gave your back to the guy. You walked back to your trailer, and it was about an hour at least. And I think whoever was in charge, whoever was the parents of the day, whether it was Alan or Matt. Matt, you know, two lovely guys would comment there. A little hand wringing, by the way,

B (44:45)

that's an asshole move and unnecessary. And I was a jerk, you know, for doing that, if I did that in that way. And I probably did, because I was very idealistic at the time. And it is not the way. It doesn't serve. And so even though I may have been right, it wasn't the right way to deal with it. And so now what I was. Listen, here's what would work better for me. Can we accommodate that? And if he'd say no, I'd say, okay, well, next time maybe let me know what you're planning so I can weigh in on it. That's the way to do it for you young actors out there. Not the way I did it.

C (45:25)

Well, but to be really fair, it's disrespectful.

B (45:29)

Two wrongs don't make a right, is my point. So, yes, I was maybe disrespected, although I don't think that was the intention of that director. I think it was just his economy and trying to get the day. But me disrespecting him back didn't help. And as you say, we lost an hour, which kills everybody. Then, you know, Janine's coming in and waiting, like, why am I not shooting? And, you know, it's. It's not good.

A (45:56)

Well, you know, we. We learn a lot in 30 years. And it's. You know, we're in our 60s now, and we can look back and say, oh, you know, I guess I could have done that differently. But. But I think what would happen is that we would talk about this a

B (46:07)

lot, a lot of things.

A (46:08)

The USC film school directors would come out and they would know how to work the cameras, but they didn't take enough time to teach those new directors coming out of USC how to work with actors. You know, and the best directors are the ones who would go in and take acting classes. You know, they would actually immerse themselves into what is the perspective from the actors standpoint. And I think that's what Rob and you and I, we all of us learn as we become veterans and in the business is. Is how, you know, the collaboration and to look at things from other people's points of view. And what they need. Okay, well, the camera might actually need the two of us squished together here, even though it doesn't feel quite right. But it's. It's. Once again, it's. It's that mutual respect and that collaboration that comes around with everybody. So sometimes that was probably a good lesson for that director, actually, you know, okay, you know, I shouldn't block it without. Without taking time to consult about how the actors feel, because that was a big part of it.

C (47:06)

This is first day, right?

B (47:08)

I'm in the DGA mentor program, so I'm mentoring a young, young coming director. And. And I keep telling him, go. You know, he is actually taking acting classes because. And when I made this movie once where Martin Scorsese was in it and he was acting, and I was like, why do you. Why are you acting like. And he said, the only reason I'm here is because I want to know what you guys go through. I want to feel it like, you know, and so I really tell anyone, any of you would be directors out there, go study acting. So you understand, because it's, It's. It's tricky to do what. What we have to do and to do it day in, day out, you know, on that schedule, right?

A (47:47)

And. And the director, the director comes in with a list of kind of shots where he thinks he wants. You know, he or she are thinking they need to. They need that. They need to be prepared and have their shot list. But then the great test is then to bring the actors in and then all the rest of the crew and say what works. It's that ability. It's one of my favorite words in the world, right, is to collaborate. It's the ability to say, okay, but you have to think of everyone, because it is awkward as an actor if, you know, to walk in and say, wait, I'm standing. That doesn't. Wait. What, you want me to stand there? Especially when we're about 40, 50, 50, 60 episodes into it. I mean, you know, any director that steps into that world with actors and a crew who've been working together for that amount of time, who just know their character inside and out, that. That was a. It's a. It's a scary position for a director to walk into. An acting troupe like that that knows exactly what they want and how they want it.

C (48:43)

As a cinematographer, when you're working and you're watching the first blocking rehearsal, I always take a clue from where the director is standing. Now. That's going to be probably where it is. However, if the director has the windows behind him, I would say say very gently, have you looked at it from over here? And come around and say, if you put the windows in the background, well, we actually have a motivation. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Because they're just thinking about the people moving in space.

B (49:11)

Dave, let me ask you, having watched the show, I guess you watched it last night, right? Or today, what jumped out at you in terms of the way things were shot and direct? Like, you know, I mean the beauty of the cranes in the church, right? That was beautiful little sequence. The dolly shots you talked about.

C (49:32)

Well, the big difference between stuff we're looking at now on streamers and is all the hard edged sharpness and the way that the film that we used back then, the Kodak film that you used back then and the lenses and the motion picture cameras, the way that they actually captured the images is completely, completely not there.

B (49:56)

Now wait, you're saying that the old way was softer edges.

C (50:00)

So pretty. I mean, so pretty. I mean, Jeanine, you were talking about that scene when you show up at Rob's house and you're like, let's do it. And then you start making out on the couch. We had a high angle shot looking down at you that was just so, if you don't mind me saying, creamy and soft and gorgeous. We were very sensitive as to the right angle of the camera so we don't see under your neck and all of things. And the soft light and just the shape of the light and just the right amount of pillows and all those things. Well, those things you do. And still in these days, however, the way that the film works and the focus pulling and just the operation with the camera, with the eye on the eyepiece, versus looking at a monitor, which is a lot easier and less neck injury. However, I just did a film, a film film, feature film look. And I was operating, looking through the camera and it was just so wonderful to see the flickering image again. And so when I watched the episode last night, seeing that scene there, seeing the big long dolly shots, knowing that there was a big light on it, not going with the available light because you can with the sensors now, because we're shooting at film speeds that are like 100, 125 ASA day exterior. And you need to put some light down on it. You know, the Ektachrome or even just the normal tungsten film and all of the night interiors or the night exteriors, just beautiful, beautiful films. So that's what jumps out, Rob, to answer that question, is the difference of the techniques that are used back then and now. And I'm so happy that I didn't have to assist as a camera assistant in the digital day because now this cameras are like a spaghetti factory. So many cables going all over the place. And the only thing that we had on our northern exposure was a power cable. You know, it was a hand on the lens. It was not remote control focus. You know, hand on the lens. Greg was next to the camera.

A (52:04)

There was an intimacy.

C (52:06)

Exactly. And when you finish the scene, and I likened this when I was a camera assistant. The first person you look up at is the focus puller.

B (52:14)

It's a skill that I've never been able to understand. How we're talking about a guy who's standing next to the camera and his hand on a wheel. He's not looking through the lens. He's got his hand on the wheel that controls. Controls the focus. And he's gauging by his sense of where someone moves in the frame, of how incrementally he has to dial the frame if they're on a long lens, you know, it's that much more crucial. And it's a job. I've never, I still to this day, I mean, I've done a zillion things. I've never. I've did something I've never understood. And it's so hard because I remember when we. When I first started shooting in Canada, we used to have to do 10 because they were. The crews weren't deep at that point. Now they have deep crews, meaning there's every, Every. Every company has experience in. In the ranks. And so we would have to do 10 takes because the focus puller, you'd be like, wait, what another take? Because it's out of focus. And so it's a real skill that. That I guess is. Is waning.

A (53:13)

I looked at those scene, those shots on the couch, and I thought how beautiful they are. Those. Those were so beautiful. And it's. It just doesn't come organically. I mean, it's. You're right, it was the angle, the pillows, the light, the, you know, coming at the right angle. And. And as an actor or an actress, you know, those can make or break your entire career. You know what I mean? Especially as a woman. And, and so it. The fact that you. You took all that time, because I did think those were pretty dreamy shots. Those were that. And. And you. And even on Rob. And it just made the whole theme, it made the whole scene so sensuous. And it made it then so sweet. And it is kind of. Rob and I were talking about the beginning to come full circle. It's all like everybody putting their art to the form that made that. If you had. If you had shot that in a really bad camera angle or you know, bad lighting, you know, it wouldn't really matter how sweet I was. It wasn't going to have the same effect than when you put it all together. And RA was so it. And it just was a very sexy, sensuous, beautiful scene. And I'm really glad you described how that happens, because it's not just plopping a camera there, unfortunately. Thank you for describing that.

C (54:29)

And the shot in the brick. One other thing, talking about focus and camera use now, Shelley has been given her task as being the maid of honor. And so she's now preparing the famous blue and white umbrellas on the cupc. And so the shot opens up with a beautiful closeup of the tray of cupcakes. And then the focus drops, same frames, focus drops to Holling coming through the back of the kitchen, coming up to talk into a two shot, which was a delightful. And you. God, John is just such a wonderful, wonderful actor. His subtleties of his thing and the setup for the neck thing and Adam doing his chiropractic adjustment.

B (55:15)

I think he actually did them for real. Adam used to give me adjustments. I think he. He really did them.

C (55:20)

He learned his process because it was in a scene, he had to learn it. But then for the three things that he spouted out to Valerie at the end, who did I marry? What am I doing to myself? And you know, the. The fact that he times her food and he. Phys. Does physiotherapy. I was like, this is why I'm the best husband.

B (55:38)

You know, I love what he says. He says. He says, why was I cursed with his misery? Why was I cursed with his misery? You're knife in my heart. And then he takes it. Then he takes a great beat, the only the way Adam can. And then he says, let's just discuss this later and get married.

C (55:54)

Right, right.

A (55:55)

Well. And you got to give it to the writing. You got to give it to Annie and Diane too. I mean, it's not on the page, it's not on the stage. And I think this is one of their greatest, great, one of their greatest episodes. It was. It was just really, really, really there. But, yeah, I. I just thought it was performed, well shot, well written. Well, it was. The music was great. You listen to all that jazz music going on in the background.

C (56:16)

Oh, God. But jazz to Vivaldi, to like, swing, you know, to the. What's his name? Benny Goodman.

B (56:24)

And by the way, the last shot. Talk about cinematography is so, you know, this, I guess the last sequence with the bouquet going through the air and then it hits the ground. No one wants to go near it. And the ends on that. It's a beautiful, beautifully directed little sequence.

C (56:41)

And even Corbett doing his one. I'm gonn foot right in that and get out, you know, because that there's. You know, he's the last. He's the last image.

B (56:48)

And I love what he says. He says when he's marrying them, you know, the way he finishes the ceremony, just looks at them both and goes, you guys cool with that?

C (56:55)

Yep.

A (56:58)

Well, I'll tell you a little tidbit. At my daughter's wedding, she just. She was married in 2024. She threw the bouquet from the balcony and it fell on the floor. And here are all these girls, you know, all of her bridesmaids wanting to get married next. I ran, picked it up. I'm like, I got it. It's pretty funny.

C (57:17)

Did it work?

A (57:18)

No, I'm not married yet, so I guess it hasn't worked. But, you know, it ain't over till it's over, as my dad used to say. Yogi bear 57. But I. I gave it. I gave it to one of her best friends who's desperate to get married. So I. I handed over the torch.

B (57:33)

Did she get married yet?

A (57:34)

No.

B (57:36)

All right. So much better.

A (57:37)

Maybe we all should have stepped back from.

C (57:40)

Was a. So that ending of that episode was just absolutely perfect. That was just the best thing. And then one thing. When I enjoyed seeing Chris at the radio station, you know, John and working with John, which, you know, those were really. He had pages with huge paragraphs.

B (58:02)

Amazing. I'm so amazed with all of his speeches now, watching them in retrospect, just how wonderfully delightful delivered they were. And I remember he was always free. You know, he'd come in and just be like, oh, my. You know, he'd have such a huge load of lines, and it ended up being so perfect.

C (58:20)

Well, I'm gonna tell you, I have. I had a hand in that. You know, how to happen. So I did. I started out in radio and I said, and we're doing these very complicated dolly shots, which are, like, in that small space. So they'd have to build these platforms in order to do these circular tracking shots, which would involve a slight zoom in, zoom out in order to keep the S and all that. And they were tricky. And start high and get low. So again, staying on the eyepiece. They were gymnastics. And I felt really accomplished at the end. But then he would have a big kerfuffle, and I was like, okay, okay. How are we going to handle this. So I go up to John, I said, john, I want to lay you something is when I was in radio, we're behind the mic like you are, but. But we're reading nearly everything. And so what if we do this? What if we take your little scripts, your little sides, chop them up and put them into different spaces? Because he doesn't need to read them. He just needs the reminder, you know, and he's like. And you're shuffling a piece of paper around and, you know, and just. And he was like, wow, you don't see them, you won't see them. I went, no, we're gonna make sure we don't. And it's like, holy shit. So boom. That was it. The connection was made. And it was just in order to reinforce him. He does memorize them, but it's a lot of stuff going on that, you know, remembering the timing and all that. So those little things were really happy.

A (59:47)

A lot of big names. Big names, big philosophy. You know, it's a lot of crazy things that they.

C (59:52)

They utilize Kierkegaard. Well, now.

A (59:55)

Now we know. Now we know. That's a great behind the scenes tip.

C (59:59)

I mean, I just worked with Billy Zane on this feature and he was suffering us through cue cards and it was like, oh, God. And he was like, no, they have to be there and you've got to do them quietly. And I' okay, but he's a lovely guy. And then Tyrese Gibson was there and he wore an earwig and he had a friend who was on the other end of that, just whispering little reminders.

B (60:24)

What I've learned is whatever works, if it works, it works.

A (60:28)

I would memorize lines by spelling something in my head the same way I did essays. You know, if I had a subject and I had to write four paragraphs, I would, you know, do a anagra. What's it called? You know, Gosh, you know. Yeah, you spell something. So I'd spell, let's say five paragraphs. Smile. So S would stand for this. And I would go in and do that. And I would do that with a lot of the. The lyrics. It's like, okay, the L comes before the M not lyrics, but the lines. L comes before the M and then there's the N or that's an alliteration. And I'm going to do. That's how I would do it in my head. I would make associations of. Of the different lines.

C (61:07)

You guys always came to work very prepared. And Rob, you were always off book.

B (61:12)

Yeah, that's Just the way I came up. But that's not the only way to do it. But I gotta say, David, we get. We gotta wrap it up. But, man, just. We could talk to you for hours, you know.

C (61:22)

Likewise.

B (61:23)

So I hope we come together on some project or socially and we can just continue.

A (61:27)

Come back on. Come back on.

C (61:30)

You guys are directors. You can pull the strings, you know.

A (61:33)

Yeah, come on. The show it'd be. Because your stories were fantastic and, well, Close was showing everyone. At my 30th birthday party, David and his wife showed up with this beautiful bird house. Look at this.

B (61:48)

So cool.

A (61:49)

It was your first wife. It was Sondra's.

C (61:51)

Sonja, Sonia.

A (61:52)

I always keep calling her Sondra. Sonja's brother, right?

C (61:56)

Yeah. Eric, who built that. Yeah, he was very handy.

A (61:58)

David said, well, has a bird ever nested in it? And I said, well, I never put it outside. It's too beautiful. So I've. I have it in on display.

C (62:06)

Well, maybe you can find a place under an eve to mount it.

A (62:10)

Yeah, well, there's a little wren out there that just tried to. To nest in my. My blanket that was out there drying. So she may really like that. I may put that out for her this year. And if a tornado comes, I'm just going to run out and grab it, bird and all.

C (62:23)

Oh, geez. Well, thank you very much for inviting me along. It was a really nice journey and so nice to share all this stuff.

A (62:31)

Great to see you, David Rob. So much fun. So we're gonna wrap this episode. We'll see you next week. We have Cheryl Block, one of our fabulous producers who was there from day one. She's gonna be on our show next week to talk about Sicily, which was the episode that was where, you know, went back in time. So we look forward to that. And so for now, we're gonna wrap the show. And this is Northern Disclosure with o' Connell and Fleischman.

B (62:53)

I actually, I think it should be Fleischman o' Connell in your dream.

A (62:57)

Fleischman.

C (63:05)

Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen

B (63:07)

Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson

C (63:10)

and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day,

B (63:23)

on the couch, in the crowd, or

D (63:25)

manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in with a full lineup of

C (63:29)

non alcoholic beer styles.

B (63:30)

You can enjoy bold flavors all game long.

C (63:33)

No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out

D (63:36)

for water in the second half.

C (63:37)

Stock the fridge for tip off with a variety of non alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or

D (63:43)

online at athleticbrewing.com near Beer Fit for. Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including Music number one, New York Times bestseller Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories. And I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it, so I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up where he left off and to my delight he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine, Lightspeed on Spec, and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being known narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Storytime with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me.