S3E22: "Cicely" with Cheryl Bloch

Summary

Northern Disclosure – S3E22: “Cicely” with Cheryl Bloch

Podcast: Northern Disclosure (Evergreen Podcasts)
Hosts: Rob Morrow ("Rob Fleischman"), Janine Turner
Guest: Cheryl Bloch (supervising producer, Northern Exposure)
Date: March 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Rob Morrow and Janine Turner dive into “Cicely,” the acclaimed season 3 finale of Northern Exposure—one of the series' most celebrated and decorated episodes. They’re joined by Cheryl Bloch, supervising producer for Northern Exposure and close collaborator with creators Joshua Brand and John Falsey. The conversation covers “Cicely’s” production, its Peabody and Emmy wins, insights into the show’s unique creative environment, and Bloch’s journey as a pioneering woman in television. The group reflects on the legacy, challenges, and quirky spirit that made “Cicely,” and the whole show, an enduring classic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legacy of "Cicely"

• Award-Winning Pedigree

  • "Cicely" won a Peabody Award and several Emmys (cinematography, art direction, editing) and a DGA award for directing.
  • (Rob, 02:05) “It has quite the pedigree. It won the Peabody Award, which is a very prestigious award for creating a show on about people with diverse backgrounds and experiences striving to accept their differences and, and to coexist in the community.”

• Why “Cicely” Stands Out

  • The episode is a period origin story that casts the regulars in roles set in 1909, exploring the founding of the town by two feminist, queer pioneers, Roslyn and Cicely.
  • Noted for breaking TV norms—not just for its storytelling but for its production scale.

2. Behind-the-Scenes Stories

• Production Hurdles & Visual Excellence

  • The episode went over budget, but Universal was supportive given the show’s popularity at the time.
  • Woody Crocker’s production team built an entire period town in the woods; attention to detail was celebrated—costumes, mud, horses.
  • (Janine, 06:23) “It was just the producing of it was phenomenal as well...the amount of horses and the mud and the splatter on the cars and the costumes and the hair and the makeup—it was just...phenomenal.”

• Music and Detail

  • Martin Bruce Lee’s role in the iconic soundtrack discussed. Cheryl’s gut instinct in hiring—choosing people for their passion and loyalty.

• Casting & Character Discussions

  • Discussion about Darren (E. Stevens) playing the 108-year-old man, and playful debate on whether characters should have been totally different in this origin story.
  • (Janine, 29:05) “Wouldn't it have been interesting if we had been different? ... But Darren was the example of how was completely different.”

3. Showrunning, Collaboration, and Delegation

• Cheryl’s Unique Role

  • Cheryl describes working across multiple series for Brand and Falsey, being the “first hired and last to leave,” hiring many future legends, and balancing work with motherhood.
  • (Cheryl, 14:28) “I never thought I was working, quite honestly, I didn't look at this as a job with them. They made me feel like I was their mother...They trusted me.”

• Culture of Trust and Delegation

  • Emphasis on non-hierarchical, collaborative teamwork; hiring the “best people” and letting them shine.
  • (Cheryl, 20:45) “Josh is a delegator... If you have the greatest people ... you let people do their greatest work.”

• Women in Leadership

  • Cheryl’s pioneering position as a female producer.
  • Janine: “You were doing it when women were not that prevalent as producers, too.” (17:57)
  • Cheryl: “No, they kept giving me more to do along these 12 years...” (51:25)

4. The Creative Alchemy of Northern Exposure

• Writing & Scripting

  • Each script read like a “beautiful short story” (Janine & Cheryl, 15:37–15:42).
  • The locus of the show’s success was always the script: “If it ain’t on the page, it ain’t on the stage.” (Janine, 21:59)

• Inspirations & Vision

  • The show’s DNA was rooted in films like Local Hero and producer creativity sparked by everyday discussions (the “moose in the credits” story, 19:21).

5. “Cicely” as Cultural Moment

• Feminist, Utopian, Literary Themes

  • The episode’s portrayal of women founding a utopian town was—and remains—radically fresh.
  • (Janine, 49:00) “That the women go in and create the town—it was really, truly original.”
  • Addressed LGBTQ themes well ahead of network TV trends.

• Power of Community & Acceptance

  • The town (and the show) as “a character;” celebration of unconventional families and communities.
  • (Rob, 45:39) “At the heart of this...is how Sicily and Roslyn changed the world. So that this, this town emerged from it based on, you know, humanistic notions and, and literary and...philosophical.”

6. Personal, Emotional Connections

• What the Show Meant to Cast & Crew

  • Janine on coming home to Northern Exposure: “Nothing else I’ve done in my career compares to this.”
  • Cheryl on “mothering” the show and balancing Emmy wins with newborns.
  • (Cheryl, 50:59) “I always felt like Northern was the middle child. Quite honestly, in my life. It's really been. That's how I felt very motherly to this show.”

• On Set Culture

  • Collaboration, minimal ego, creative freedom, non-hierarchical mood.
  • Recognition that exhaustion, long hours, and emotional labor were inherent to TV work, but the creativity and spirit of the show endured.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On the Show’s Enduring Relevance

• Cheryl (09:51): “It’s even more beautiful and more relevant now...there’s so much nuance, especially this show, but it really holds up. It is so charming again.”

On Cheryl’s Influence

• Rob (16:02): “Your presence was over everything. ... It was a benevolent kind of leadership. ... We always felt we were in good hands with you.”

On Creating “Cicely”

• Rob (26:25): “Woody Crocker and his team built this town in a completely different location. ... They created this town and it became known...as this kind of world where community and art and literature and humanity guide.”

On Directing & Delegating

• Cheryl (21:02): “The whole point of this is Josh is a delegator and John. And we hired the greatest people on all the staff... You let people do their greatest work.”

On the Feminine Power in the Show

• Cheryl (25:28): “They trusted me. They love, which is what this ‘Cicely’ is about. The power of the feminine. ... They treated women so respectfully and encouraged you to stand up.”

On the Magic of Production

• Cheryl (36:28): “I would just see the dailies and we would do tone meetings ... So I didn't oversee. That was really up north, producers up there. Rob Thompson was a pivotal one.”

On Utopian Vision and Hope

• Rob (59:17): “Ned said...that hope had replaced despair. Right. Which I think is a great way to sum up the show as well as the episode.”

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Segment Timestamps

• [00:30] — Episode Intro, Emmys/Peabody Awards Context
• [03:31] — The Awards Submission Process Revealed
• [06:23] — Janine’s Absence (Italy, Cliffhanger) and Production Anecdotes
• [07:09] — Introducing Cheryl Bloch, Her Storied Career
• [09:51] — The Show’s Continued Relevance (“It’s even more beautiful and more relevant now…”)
• [12:43] — Cheryl on Joining the Brand/Falsey Team & Being “the Mother” of the Show
• [16:02] — Cheryl’s Benevolent Leadership & Presence
• [17:57] — Cheryl as a Trailblazer for Women Producers
• [19:21] — Origin Stories: Moose in Credits & Creative Decision-Making
• [26:25] — Building the Town for “Cicely”; Production Design Details
• [31:09] — The “Cat or the Rembrandt” Philosophical Debate
• [33:30] — LGBTQ Representation, Network (Non)Interference
• [36:15] — Discussing Scale & Authenticity of Production (“...it was just down in the dirt, literally.”)
• [45:36] — The Show’s Messages: Feminism, Utopia, Humanism
• [49:00] — Uniqueness of “Women Building a Town” Narrative
• [50:59] — Cheryl on Mothering the Show & Work-Life Balance
• [54:55] — Meticulous Collaboration Behind the Scenes
• [57:49] — The Actor’s Perspective: Emotion, Exhaustion, & Creative Pressure
• [59:17] — Final Reflections: “Hope Replaced Despair”
• [61:14] — The Akashic Record & The Show’s Legacy

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is affectionate, candid, and playful—reflecting the original warmth and camaraderie of the Northern Exposure cast and crew. There’s a strong sense of nostalgia, gratitude, and pride running through the episode, along with honest reflections on gender, creativity, TV production, and what it takes to build shows that last.

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For New Listeners

This episode goes deep behind the scenes of one of Northern Exposure’s most celebrated episodes, blending technical insights, creative philosophy, and personal stories from one of the show’s vital producers. Listeners will come away with a richer understanding of why "Cicely" is not just good TV—but a cultural touchstone for ideas about community, acceptance, and the quietly radical power of collaboration.

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End of Summary

Transcript

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[Rob Fleischman]

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[Cheryl Block]

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[Cheryl Block]

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[Rob Fleischman]

Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks. Well, hi there. Welcome back to Northern Disclosure where my co host tonight, Janine Turner talk about every, every episode of Northern Exposure. And thanks for tuning in. We've, we're now into like 38 shows or something like that. And, and you know, we, we, we love the feedback we're getting. We do read the comments. So, so thanks for responding. Thanks for watching. We have a cool show to talk about and a cool guest. How you doing there, Janine?

[Janine Turner]

I'm fine and dandy over here.

[Cheryl Block]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

Running myself a little ragged but good. Always busy. Like you say, like Rob says, we spin the plates as like producer, actor, creators, you know, we're spinning, spinning the plates so taking care of my mom. So it's, it's always, always an exciting, there's never a downtime much anymore. But that's good. I love just being completely creative and I love doing this show. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button. Right, Rob.

[Rob Fleischman]

Yes. Thank you for saying that.

[Cheryl Block]

Of course.

[Janine Turner]

Share with folks. So yeah, Rob, good to see you. This is a very special show and we've been wanting our special guest forever. And I'll let you, I don't want to spill the beans yet about who our special guest is, I guess. Yet.

[Rob Fleischman]

Well, so this episode is called Sicily. It was the season finale of episode three and it has quite the pedigree. It won the Peabody Award, which is a very prestigious award for creating a show on about people with diverse backgrounds and experiences striving to accept their differences and, and to coexist in the community. Which is something Jeanine and you know, you really talk about a lot on the show is the, the ask that aspect of it and I think that that epitomizes, you know, this was, that was from the, the Peabody Award people. The, the what, what the award was based on. And I think the Community of. Of Sicily, Alaska. The fictitious town where the show takes place is so integral. It's a character. The town is a character. The landscape is a character. The show also this particular episode, Jeanine, if you remember, won a creative Emmy as well for Frank Prinzie cinematography. It won three of them. It won for so Frank Prinze, our cinematography. And as you see when you watch the show, it's just beautifully shot. And the art direction. Woody Crocker, Gene Sardina and Kenneth Berg, they won. They won an Emmy. And the editing. Thomas R. Moore won for editing and also Rob Thompson won for outstanding directoral achievement and dramatic show for the DGA award.

[Janine Turner]

I never knew that the Emmys were for one particular show, and I think for. For Emmy season for us one and two, I didn't even know I was supposed to send in a show or pick a show. I didn't know anything about that. And I even realized that you win for a show and no one asked me in season one and season two what I wanted to send in. And maybe so I think I was behind the eight ball on that. I didn't. I would have probably. I don't even know if anybody picked a show and turned it in for me. I don't know. I didn't know.

[Rob Fleischman]

No, they did. They did. You. You might have not, I think by.

[Janine Turner]

On the first show.

[Rob Fleischman]

No, no. You. You could weigh in on it, but I think on the first season, they

[Janine Turner]

didn't ask me until like season three or four. I think. No, one.

[Rob Fleischman]

I think season two, we. I think season two, we got to. To weigh in because we learned.

[Janine Turner]

Well, anyway, I think I did on season 3, but anyways. Are you saying that they won for. For Sicily, beat this episode up and they all won based off this episode? It's funny to me that you. You would win based off an episode. And. And I. The Emmys are strange. It's not like the Academy Awards, but it's fun. It's weird that you would win for one episode and not the whole bulk of the season of the work that you do. Yeah, well, I think certain actor for an entire season. If you're cinematography for a whole season, why do they just pick one show?

[Rob Fleischman]

Right? It's. It's not so much that they're ba. I mean, in this case, the DGA is giving an award for and the creative Emmys are giving for a particular show, but when we get. They have to choose one for the panels to look at. So that's what it comes down to. But you can get the award for the whole thing.

[Janine Turner]

So does it show there that they submitted that show then when they won for the Emmys, Sicily?

[Rob Fleischman]

Yeah, I mean, most likely.

[Janine Turner]

Does it show that on IMDb that they won for Sicily?

[Rob Fleischman]

Frank won for this episode. Woody and his gang won for this episode. Thomas Moore, the editor, won for this episode. And you know, it's, it's, it's a unique show. I'll give you the synopsis. It's, it's, it's an unusual show for us. It was, it was a big budget breaker. I think Rob Thompson, our producer and director, did a beautiful job. And the synopsis on IMDb is Joel encounters a 1-8-year-old man who has come home to Sicily. He tells Joel that Sicily, founded by two incredible free thinking women named Roslyn and Cicely War, was once considered the Paris of the north. The series regulars appear in the episode as various residents from 1909. This was written by, of course, Diane Froff and, and Andy Schneider are, you know, producers and, you know, great. You know, they were so integral to everything. Northern Exposure. I mean, after Josh and John, they really carried the torch. And there's. There, it's, it's beautiful. It was so much fun to make. Do you remember, Janine? You remember shooting it?

[Cheryl Block]

Yeah, I do.

[Janine Turner]

I left early for this episode. If you're wondering why you don't see me in like, in the scenes around the. Which I have a great story about that that I don't think today's the day to tell it. But if you, you don't see me, you know, kind of the wizard of Oz thing where we're all sitting around talking to him and, and whatnot, and I'm not there when Michelle Joyner is singing. It's because I left. I went to Italy to go film Cliffhanger. So I wasn't in it that much. I, I just did a little bit of it. But I just will echo how phenomenally beautiful it is, the work that went into it. I mean, the amount of horses and the mud and the splatter on the cars and the costumes and the hair and the makeup, it was just, it was just the producing of it was phenomenal as well.

[Rob Fleischman]

Speaking of.

[Janine Turner]

Okay, well, speaking of. Okay, drumroll, please. It's Sheryl Block, everybody. We finally have Sheryl Block on the show. We've been trying forever.

[Cheryl Block]

Ever.

[Janine Turner]

Cheryl Block. There she is.

[Cheryl Block]

Thank you.

[Janine Turner]

I'm gonna. Woohoo. Hello, Cheryl.

[Cheryl Block]

Hello to New Love.

[Rob Fleischman]

Hey, Cheryl. Welcome.

[Janine Turner]

I'm going to tell y' all a little bit about the phenomenal Cheryl block here. Cheryl worked with John and Josh for 12 years. She started with A Year in the Life. I'm going to hopefully get most of this right. She was a producer and supervising producer for all of the seasons, which we're gonna figure out how she did that with two other shows of Northern Exposure. After Northern Exposure, she was. And I have some fun stories when you picked us up in LA and whatnot. It's just really kind of fun. President of Brand Falsey Productions. After Northern Exposure, she was a supervising producer for I'll Fly Away and Going to Extremes, which were the other two shows that John and Josh were doing simultaneously to ours. She was an executive at Universal Studios, a buyer at Fox Studios after Northern Exposure, a network executive, a studio executive. And now she has her own production, Backyard Picks with Leslie. Leslie Linkaglatter.

[Rob Fleischman]

The great Leslie Linkaglider.

[Janine Turner]

We should say the great Leslie Linkaglatter. And so I probably left a lot out, but ladies and gentlemen, this woman has a career of all careers and has been the steadying force for anything and creative force for everything she does. And we love her and we're so thrilled to have you today.

[Cheryl Block]

Cheryl, thank you so much. And again, thanks for making this podcast. Bring everyone to the show and making it so relevant now and engaging.

[Rob Fleischman]

It doesn't seem dated. Did you notice that?

[Cheryl Block]

Well, it's so interesting, Rob. I was nervous to watch it. I remember when it first dropped, one of the other producers called me and said, shel, don't watch the pilot. You'll just see the boom the whole way through. And I'm like, oh, but now, because of the podcast, I was scared to watch. I was like, oh, you know, and it's even more beautiful and more relevant now. And it's because this podcast is leading you into a deep dive of it. And I really think if it hadn't been for the podcast, a lot of people wouldn't get the depth of what the show was really about, because it's a big universe they created and there's so much nuance, especially this show, but it really holds up. It is so charming again. And, you know, one of the lines in the show, you know, that we bring hope when there is despair. That's one of the lines, I think. I don't know who said. And that's what the show is really resonating.

[Rob Fleischman]

You're right.

[Cheryl Block]

That really shows up the feel of what Josh and John really. Well, all their shows that I've worked on has this. But this especially, especially now, watching it just this week, what's going on. It's just. It's so wonderful. I guess we had to wait this long. Robin, Janine, to get it here. You guys were insurmountable with that, you know, getting it to air finally, after all the music rights and complications at Universal.

[Rob Fleischman]

Yeah, Janine really worked hard on that. She pushed them over at Universal.

[Janine Turner]

They knew they had to contend with me. They were like, we're not gonna do it, but don't tell Janine. Then I pick up the phone like, what is this? I hear that you're not doing it? And they're like, oh, no. But Rob's worked on the show a lot in different aspects, too. So we're just thrilled that it's having a resurgence. And because it just has such a. I just want the show to have a legacy because it's. It is so beautiful. The message is so beautiful. When I tell people about it, I'm like, you'll love it. I mean, I don't really know of anyone who really doesn't, you know, I mean, because it's just meaningful and quirky and fun and community and all those wonderful things. But talk to us. 12 years you worked with Josh and John.

[Cheryl Block]

Well, I'm excited to share some of this stuff. Before we talk about Sicily, which is truly the most iconic of shows, people always refer to burning down the house, which the audience probably hasn't seen yet. It's later.

[Rob Fleischman]

No, we saw that one.

[Cheryl Block]

Oh, okay. Well, they. Oh, yeah, you're ahead. When they fling the piano. That was every time people stopped me that. How'd you do that? But this show, I think, is extraordinarily and iconic and really at the heart of who Josh and John, what they were trying to create in the imagination and the experience you have and the backstory is so fascinating. But before I get to that, I just wanted to tell you about working with Josh and John before even the show came. I met them on Amazing Stories, which was a Spielberg show.

[Rob Fleischman]

So wait, they were hired to write one episode or they were running that whole show?

[Cheryl Block]

The first year I came as associate producer. I was overseeing post, and they were the eps there for a year of the show. The first year, it's a Spielberg anthology show, and I met them in the editing room, where I have been with them for 12 more years. And then they left on and I finished that show, and they had to do A Year in the Life, which was a beautiful show. Another family show at Universal for a year. And after that, I had a child. And I remember Josh calling me and saying, oh, we got this very small summer series, you gotta come and do it. It's really exciting. I said, josh, I'm a mother now. I don't know if I can go up to Seattle and oh, it's only six episodes. And you know what, Cheryl? We think the show needs a mother. And at that moment I was all in. It really felt like my second child until I had my other one.

[Rob Fleischman]

Well, tell us what a supervising produ. What you, what you first. You were a supervising producer at first, right?

[Cheryl Block]

Yes.

[Rob Fleischman]

What does that mean versus a producer, producer or a consulting producer? I know they're salary titles and stuff, but what does supervising mean?

[Cheryl Block]

Supervising means pretty much when we set up the show, it was six episodes, it was eight. Eight. We all went up to Seattle. I was Matt Nodell and I. Matt and I both worked on A Year in the Life. He was doing locations, I was doing post and a little casting. But I did all the dubbing and the. Eddie oversaw everything, hired everybody. Josh had this idea because, you know, Matt would go and run in Seattle and I would stay in la. So a supervising producer. Every show's different. For me it was hiring the casting, hiring all the directors. At this time, the first eight, we had 850,000. I had to get non union directors because, you know, I got, let's say Dan Adias, he was a camera operator. Bill d', Elia, I saw a commercial reel. We could not hire real Dean Paris though. I mean, it's so exciting.

[Rob Fleischman]

You have such a great eye. I mean, these are. All these people went on to have incredible careers in this business.

[Cheryl Block]

Yes. And Josh would just, you know, just say trust your taste. You know, just. We were so busy trying to get. They were coming to get the scripts out. So that's one part. Then overseeing all the post everything. Hiring everyone from Martin, Bruce Lee to Joe Lazarov to Steve Turner, Gianna, all the editors, directors, finding the location, Lantana, where we all worked. And then I dealt with the network. You know, we had notes and then the studio to try to get money.

[Rob Fleischman]

And how did you find time to raise your family that you just were getting going?

[Cheryl Block]

He had a little desk and he would come after preschool. You know, this working with Josh and John is truly. I never thought I was working, quite honestly, I didn't look at this as a job with them. They made me feel like I was their mother. The mother of all the shows. They trusted me. They love, which is what this Sicily is about. The power of the feminine. They love. I mean they treated women so respectively and encouraging you to stand up.

[Janine Turner]

I would say that's not just what Cicely about. I would say that's what Maggie o' Connell was about.

[Cheryl Block]

Yes. Well, that's what I wanted to talk about too, in the show, but it started down in the rooms and so I didn't see it as work. I remember getting up literally at 5:30 in the morning before my kids were up, just to read the scripts. Because I have never. And I've read a lot of scripts in my life now. Every time I read one, I wanted to experience it for a minute quietly. Wow.

[Rob Fleischman]

So, so good. I love that image.

[Cheryl Block]

Yeah. I would sit in my living room and there was a spiritual feeling that shifted in you when you read these scripts.

[Janine Turner]

They were like short stories, like beautiful short stories every time you opened one.

[Cheryl Block]

Exactly. Even if you didn't understand all the literary references sometime, it still was. So I never saw this as work. It was like. It was truly just all. We all loved working there. Everybody. All of us down in la.

[Rob Fleischman]

Well, I remember your presence. Even though we didn't see you physically a lot, your presence was over everything. It always came back to Cheryl this, Cheryl that, Cheryl Will, Cheryl Mite, Cheryl should, you know, and. And that was, you know, it was. And. And it was a benevolent kind of leadership, you know, it always. You always felt in. Good. We always felt. I don't know, I think Janine probably would say this. Well, we felt in good hands with you. You know, if you. If you weighed in on something and decided it was, you know, usually gonna be a good thing.

[Janine Turner]

Were you there when you. When we were cast?

[Cheryl Block]

I was the first person hired in the last to leave. Wow.

[Janine Turner]

So you were there just for the whole casting process. That would have been just fascinating.

[Cheryl Block]

We hired Megan Branham, who. Yes, we've been there. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing was so beautiful.

[Rob Fleischman]

Megan, she's a casting director for Universal.

[Janine Turner]

I guess I was in New York, so no, she.

[Rob Fleischman]

But she. She was there at our. At our calls when we came out for the test.

[Cheryl Block]

Jenny, she's fantastic too. I mean, that was the best part of this show. I got to hire people and a lot of them, David Schwartz is just a great example had just starting and so many of our editors, so many people in the post production, you know, and if I like them and trust them, they were so loyal to all of us, Josh and John and I, and they worked so hard. I remember meeting Martin, Bruce Lee calling him up and I said, well, what do you do on the Weekends. And he said, well, I love to go to Tower Records. You should see my. I have 3,000 cassettes in my home. And I was like, that guy knows music. This is a great fit.

[Rob Fleischman]

We had Martin on, and Martin was so integral to the show in terms of music. And now knowing how that came to be, I just assume he came to us with that. But you just kind of saw that you have a great instinct, as I guess Josh knew what he was doing. By telling you to follow your gut,

[Janine Turner]

you were doing it when women were not that prevalent as producers, too.

[Cheryl Block]

Exactly. These two guys never. They. They didn't. They were. They were the most eloquent and gentleman and fun and honest. Direct. I mean, producers, probably, I've ever worked with. And they were such a great team. And I do want to just mention, because I knew them back in New Year and life, they would divide everything. One would go to the dub, one would be in the casting. They had to run the writing room. So they were very involved in that. I had nothing to do with that, but I had to run and do everything. And they would just check in, come out, go. Great. Sounds great, go. You know, they're very, very. They delegate beautifully. And if you find the right people. That's the joy of producing. You get the best people and you can sit back and let them do their best work. And if you have a note here and there. That's the beauty of the show. It just kept rippling that way. But when we started, I just wanted to say, you know, I know John's presence after a few episodes. Cause I'll Fly Away came. But we started. There's just a fun story that. Well, first of all, Northern Exposure. I don't know if the audience is interested. Josh saw a local hero one day when we were on youn're in the Life and couldn't stop talking about this movie.

[Rob Fleischman]

Yeah, we talked. He talked. We had him. He talked about that when he was on.

[Cheryl Block]

Well, it was just wonderful how they would riff together and how this show came about. And he knew someone. He told you all that. But the main title was so funny. Cause people always want to know about the main title. And I remember John Falzer just. I love the World According to Garb. The Baby Fall from the Sky. That led to talking about a moose. The whole thing was just the way they would work together. They would riff and riff until they land on it. But it was all so integral to the way they worked.

[Rob Fleischman]

Isn't that fascinating, the way this kind of synchronicity of partnerships. I mean, I think with you and Leslie Glotter, you know, you just kind of. You find someone and your energy dovetails, and it becomes much bigger than two people. And in this case, I mean, I can't even. I mean, doing one show, supervising one show is creating. Running one show is. I can't even imagine. I mean, I've done it, I guess, but. But doing three at the same time, you know, how that's even possible, how you can even function without 24? You know, it just seems to me like there's. There's no room.

[Janine Turner]

When did those other two shows start? I'll Fly Away. And it didn't seem like it was

[Cheryl Block]

the first couple seasons. No, no, it didn't the first season. It started two years later, and John went on to oversee that.

[Janine Turner]

Do you think that the show suffered a little bit because of that?

[Cheryl Block]

Because of what?

[Janine Turner]

Well, the diffusion of time and attention when you're trying to do three shows at the same time.

[Cheryl Block]

No, my priority was always Northern. Everything about Northern, you were the one

[Janine Turner]

that was really solidly there.

[Cheryl Block]

So was Josh.

[Janine Turner]

Well, how could he do that, though, if he was doing Going To Extremes and I'll Fly Away at the same

[Cheryl Block]

time, we delegate to great writers and producers. We had Ian Sanders in I'll Fly Away, David Chase and Barbara hall were over there. We have the greatest writers. It was like. The whole point of this is Josh is a delegator and John. And we hired the greatest people on all the staff. So you don't have to micromanage anybody if there's a problem. Yes. If it's all working well, you let people do their greatest work. You know, we really didn't. We had great producers up there with you guys.

[Rob Fleischman]

That's what Rob Thompson said.

[Cheryl Block]

Rob Thompson. We hired a man. We were the first people that did that. Cause we couldn't be. Keep going. It's impossible for them to be there when they're trying to run 22 scripts and oversee all that.

[Rob Fleischman]

Rob said that he was allowed to. He was just kind of. They just kind of let him go. And as long as he didn't screw up, they just let him go. Which is. It's. It is. It's a great quality.

[Janine Turner]

It starts then, obviously, in order for all those elements to work, it starts with the script.

[Cheryl Block]

Exactly.

[Janine Turner]

The Cheryl Blocks to supervise it. The cast, you know, the cast to bring that script to life. And then. Then. Then it can all roll right. But it's just. It's all. It all really starts with it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage type of thing I think.

[Cheryl Block]

True, yes.

[Janine Turner]

Have you ever been scrolling through your feeds late at night only to come across that one product you've been looking for? Maybe you've been thinking about buying it for a while and you just haven't done it yet. You click on the link and you add it to your cart before you head to checkout. But as you're filling in your address, you realize I don't have my card anywhere near. That's when you see it. The purple pay button that has all your information saved, making checkout as easy as a single tap. The iconic Shop Pay button is used by millions of businesses around the world, which is why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything like international shipping, processing, returns and so much more. Plus, if you ever get stuck, Shopify is always there to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support see less cards go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for $1 a month trial today at shopify.com Northern go to shopify.com Northern that's shopify.com Northern

[Rob Fleischman]

Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got a seat close enough to actually see and hear them. Sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you more Expedia made to travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.

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[Rob Fleischman]

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[Rob Fleischman]

So let's talk about this episode a little bit. Like what I remember it was, you know it went way over budget, right? Or we spent. I guess the way budgeting TV show works is you have a certain amount for the season and you can do what you want with it as long as you don't go over and so you try to save It. And I think everyone knew this episode was coming. Cause it was the finale. So there was probably money saved, but I think it even went past that. Do you remember that?

[Cheryl Block]

I don't know the exact amount, but I have to say Universal was an exceptional. Gary Hart was there at the time. He went on to do Paramount.

[Rob Fleischman]

Loved Gary Hart.

[Cheryl Block]

Exceptionally so. Me too. So supportive. If I called, if we needed money. Even when you left Rob for a minute, you know, they were very much, really supportive of. And at this point, the show is really high on the ratings at CBS now. We really kicked in and it was this show, actually that won the Emmy. I got to get an Emmy with Josh and John in 1992. That's the show this season that when you were asking about the show, it won best series. This helped the season, but season three won all of us awards for it. So with the money, they, you know, we got help. But, you know, everyone from Woody Crocker, everybody really knew how to get bang out of the buck. I mean, they really. They started with nothing. So everyone we hired, we had, you know, was really pretty ingenious about. From all departments, really respectful of that, of the budget.

[Rob Fleischman]

Woody Crocker, the production designer, and his team built this town in a completely different location. They built it from scratch in the woods. And they had to make it look like what Sicily would have looked like 100 years in the past. And just, I mean, we've talked about this before, but just to remind the audience, this town we shot for the show in was called Rosalind Washington or is called Roslyn Washington. And there's a mural on a cafe at the end of the street that says Rosalyn. And Woody's genius little touch was to add the apostrophe s to that we would put on every time we went up there to shoot. And then they would have to take it off. But so then that, I think, got the guys gestating on what the history of the town was. And they came up with this brilliant idea that Sicily and Rosalind had come. These two women lovers had come to Sicily 100 years prior. And they created this town and it became known. And then at the end of the episode, spoiler alert, Sicily dies. And the town starts to become what it ultimately is. You know, this kind of world where community and art and literature and humanity guide. And it's a great origin story. And all of us in the show got to play different characters. Did Janine. Did you remember playing Mary?

[Janine Turner]

I've thought about it. Of course, I wasn't in the show that much. Cause I left to go, you know, do cliffhanger. But we weren't different characters. And I thought as amazing as the show was. And someone told us on the show that Josh didn't think the show worked. And that at the end. And so he wanted a full orchestra to come in to try to make the show work. I forget who said that. And obviously it worked. Cause it won all the awards. But in his mind, it didn't work. And that we were. Some guests said that the orchestration wanted a full orchestra to try to go in and bring the show to life. But it's interesting to me that we weren't different. That we were really the same. And I thought, wouldn't it have been interesting if we had been different? If we had all been kind of. Except Darren. Darren was really different. And why was Darren playing the older 108 men?

[Rob Fleischman]

Why not?

[Janine Turner]

Darren was Darren. It's like I was sort of. It doesn't. I don't understand why Darren was. It's like, okay, Darren's the example of what I think it all could have been like. Darren could have. Darren came in with someone completely different. But the rest of us were kind of playing ourselves. Like Shelly. We worked in the bar.

[Rob Fleischman]

I think it's interesting they did that so that there was some continuity. So it wasn't just like reinventing.

[Janine Turner]

I don't know. I think it could have gone the other way. I think everybody could have been completely different. But Darren was the example of. Hal was completely different. So my question, Cheryl. How was Darren picked to play the 108-year-old man? I found that really interesting. And he did such a good job with it. He did such a good job with it.

[Cheryl Block]

Yeah. It really shows his spirit and how. I mean, even though you said it right, Janine, you were different, but you see how you evolved, you know, Like, I love John Corbett's role. He wasn't like a preacher, you know, he was just following Maurice. So I don't. I can't tell you exactly. I wasn't in the writing room when they decided that part. I don't know. Will they pick Darren? But, you know, it really gave him some gravitas. I was really happy that they gave it to him because it gave him a moral compass that when we go back to the show that we see the artist in him.

[Janine Turner]

I was thrilled Darren had the opportunity. I have no qualm with that. I just am kind of confused by it because it wasn't the. I guess we were kind of all ourselves in 1800. But. But. But the old man was there. He was 108. And Darren obviously wasn't that old man. So I don't know. It was. Confused me a little, but Darren was.

[Rob Fleischman]

The old Darren was supposed to be him as a younger man.

[Cheryl Block]

Exactly.

[Rob Fleischman]

And also, by the way, the story. The story is Ned's story doesn't quite add up when you parse it. There's things that don't add up about ages and. And. And things he says that, you know, may believe that part of it is. Is not true. So, I mean, it's a tale he's telling, right?

[Cheryl Block]

Yeah, it's like a campfire tale. That was the show supposed to be sitting around the campfire. And I'm glad you said. Cause I was looking for you, Jeanine, in that last. That wizard of the Oz sign. Cause it was so beautiful. People would just keep joining in. I love that touch. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That was so clever. And I love the line when you answer about, would you. I love these questions, like, would you take the cat or the Rembrandt?

[Rob Fleischman]

It's such a great idea.

[Cheryl Block]

Such a great question. I kept thinking about it, and I love how you said Janine, like, so, you know, righteous and convicted, you know, strong about. Well, you have to take the Rembrandt because you wouldn't see the cat. It was such a great. It was Maggie, like, coming out. I mean. And another thing I love about your performance, Rob, the last shot. I just have to tell you, when you go back to the bar, it's

[Rob Fleischman]

such a great moment.

[Cheryl Block]

Oh, my God. It looked like the boy, Rob Fleischman, the young man became really realized. He really absorbed where he is now. It was such a beautiful moment to see you. It's like everything got softer. You just took it all in and the audience is there with you.

[Rob Fleischman]

And I think to Jeanine's point, that probably was added to try to pull it together. I don't even know if it was shot at a different time, but. But it does. And it's these moments that we notice. Janine and I talk about it a lot, is these moments where the characters incrementally change and they open up. They open up, I guess, is the way. What I mean is, they open up a little more. And you can see in Fleischman's countenance the opening of himself to where he is and to the experience of his life. Not about how he wished he had a different life or better life, but he's in his life right there and appreciating the uniqueness of that town.

[Cheryl Block]

Yeah. You felt so soft and open to it. It was just great.

[Janine Turner]

I quite frankly think, Rob, I thought you were great. When you got out of the car and you thought you hit the man, I thought that was terrific. That nervousness you had, I thought that was really, really well done, Robin.

[Rob Fleischman]

And how about Robert Blossom as Ned? You know, he was so excellent. I mean, the casting there, Cheryl. I mean.

[Cheryl Block]

And Joe Anderson. Oh, my gosh.

[Rob Fleischman]

And Joe Anderson and Yvonne Suhar, I think you call it.

[Cheryl Block]

They were so perfectly cast and that they were lovers. I mean, they took all kind of chance. This writing is just extraordinary. I just love how the whole thing kind of shows you hints of who the characters that we knew and love came from, what started it all. It's just kind of magical seeing that, you know.

[Rob Fleischman]

I agree. By then, you weren't getting blowback from the network. I'll bet. Like, the idea of two lesbian protagonists, they were like, okay, I know, Josh. I don't even know if you were submitting scripts by then. They were just kind of like. I mean, I'm sure you did, but I don't think anyone even read them. They were just like whatever they make.

[Cheryl Block]

Then we only got one blowback, which is a very funny story. And it's not. This is a very charming story. So this. Back when we were doing dailies of the first season, CBS called, and I was in the room with Josh and John, and somehow they were on the speaker. Well, we love the dailies, but where is the hospital? This is like, in the first three episodes ever shot, they thought they were getting a hospital show. Cause there's a doctor and Josh and John.

[Rob Fleischman]

So funny.

[Cheryl Block]

Well, it's not saying elsewhere which they created, but if you want a hospital show, it's probably not us. And they were not gonna argue. They were just gonna leave. I mean, seriously, they looked at each other. Well, that's. And they said, oh, no, no, no, no, Whatever you say. No, we want the doctor in the little office. That's it. We must have misunderstood. I mean, they just. They weren't gonna. That was the show they wanted to do, and that was their vision all along. And after that, everyone just kind of trusted them. And that actually is very unusual today.

[Rob Fleischman]

Very unusual for any time.

[Janine Turner]

So were you in the casting sessions when Joe was casting? Were you there? Did you go to all of them or.

[Cheryl Block]

No, no, I would see all the tapes. We had to approve them. Yeah. Yeah. And I would be with Megan a lot. I can't remember exactly. There Was. So every week there was casting. We also had tone meetings with the directors. Did you realize the directors had to meet us and talk to the writers and hear the thing before they got up to Seattle, to Roslyn? So it was such a beautiful handoff between north and South.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, well. Yeah, well, we missed y'.

[Cheryl Block]

All.

[Janine Turner]

We missed y'. All. I think. I think it would have been really great to have seen y' all more. It was. We were kind of. Though, we loved Rob Thompson, but the. I just wanna go back to the production value of this show and how you were integral in it. And I just wanna say, once again, I think that you were just the touchstone and the foundation of the genius of the show coming to fruition, because you were there. You were always, always there. And you were there from the beginning. And I just. I think that you brought such an amazing element to it. And I love hearing these stories about how this. Cause this show. When I watch this show, what I get from the show was the production value. Just the production value was amazing. It wasn't just a horse here or there. I mean, it was a lot of horses.

[Cheryl Block]

Okay.

[Janine Turner]

And it was just, you know, everybody riding off and it was the magnitude of the town that was in a tremendous. So how much of a. You must have been overseeing all that, right? All those decisions and not really.

[Cheryl Block]

I would just see the dailies and we would do tone meetings to talk about things. So I didn't oversee. That was really up north, producers up there. Rob Thompson was a pivotal one.

[Rob Fleischman]

And, like, the details were so extra. Like, I'm thinking, like, there's a moment where during the Gaia dance, which is such a beautiful number, and there's someone sitting in the front row with, like a. A chicken on their lap. It was like such a great little moment.

[Janine Turner]

It was very, very believable, you know, sometimes. And we should give Catherine a nod for the costumes as well.

[Cheryl Block]

I was just going to say that it was so.

[Janine Turner]

In the hair and makeup, all of it. The. The. It was very, very believable. You know, often you see these things and it's like, okay, this just isn't working. The costumes look too fresh, or I'm not believing. And I really believe this. It was. It was the. And it was just down in the dirt, literally down a real, real town. It was just. It was superbly done. I can see why it won so, so many awards.

[Cheryl Block]

I also loved all the humor in it, too.

[Rob Fleischman]

So funny.

[Cheryl Block]

Oh, there's this plays. Joe Anderson said it's so witty. They're writing all of this. All of them. Andy and Diane, it's like, oh, there's this place called City of Angels. Like, we gotta go there.

[Rob Fleischman]

And like, you know. But by the way, speaking of why, you know, kind of the, you know, Ned making up some of this tale. Kafka never came to America, you know, I mean, he never. He never was here. He never came to Alaska for sure, and he never was here. But they just kind of felt like they wanted to take license with the whole kind of literary theme of the. Of the show and the salon.

[Cheryl Block]

Well, you do make a great Kafka drill, Rob. You do. It was perfectly cast. It's really fun.

[Rob Fleischman]

And I love the little things how, you know, Mary, Janine, as Janine as Mary, you know, suggest insects and all of it. And I love that there's just a little moment where I have this kind of, like, insects, and it's like you see the brain go. And then, you know, the metamorphosis comes down the pike.

[Cheryl Block]

And the two of you together was just charming as always, too.

[Rob Fleischman]

I remember. Thank you. I remember, Jeanine, how much fun we had. It was so much fun to. Because, you know, no matter what, even though there was nothing particularly monotonous about normal, their exposure, there was a variety of every episode, but nevertheless, you're playing the same characters. So when you can dress and look different, like, for instance, John Cullum, how studly did he look with his hair slicked back? And how beautiful did Cynthia look? And, you know, I mean, and Barry. I remember Barry was like a kid in a candy store because Barry is a horseman and he's always showing up with his horses and. And I know Jeanine is too, but. But Barry got to ride and shoot guns and. And be a tough guy. I love the moment when Barry has. She says something like, you know, they start kind of psychoanalyzing him, Rosalind and Cicely about his anger. You know, they start kind of getting young in about him. And. And Barry just goes like, what? Like, what are you talking about?

[Cheryl Block]

Oh, yes. She said, you know, you can be angry, but you don't have to lash out. Well, that is a great moment for today, too. I mean, just saying that. And he looked at it like, where. Where is that what that rule is that. I didn't know about that in the Wild West.

[Janine Turner]

I didn't. That didn't exist in the Wild West. You know, it's like, we're gonna solve this another way.

[Rob Fleischman]

Corbett looked great as. As Kit, you know, and his hair all parted in the middle and a

[Janine Turner]

cigarette coming out of his mouth.

[Rob Fleischman]

I just remember every. How I. Having fun.

[Cheryl Block]

Yeah. He came back in town, he looks around, he goes, this is a parallel universe. And that starts his whole, you know, intellectual dive into literature and spirit. You know, he switches in that moment when he goes, wow. You know, seeing that genesis of how these characters bloom there.

[Rob Fleischman]

It's funny, but Elaine's not in there. I'm just thinking, Elaine wasn't in this show.

[Cheryl Block]

No, it's true. She really wasn't in this show.

[Rob Fleischman]

She would have been so perfect. She must have had some other commitment or something.

[Cheryl Block]

It's such an audacious one to put at the end of a series, too. I mean, it's a season finale. Yeah.

[Rob Fleischman]

And I do remember people were. People were exhaust. You know, we. We shot. This was a 25 episode season. And come. 25. Number 25. It's. It's. It's insane making 25 episodes. I have to tell you, I remember we. You'd get to episode 15 and think, oh, my God, I have 10 more to go. Then you get to 25.

[Janine Turner]

I think it was a 22nd episode. Technically. We keep thinking we had 25 and 20.

[Rob Fleischman]

Oh, maybe the next season was then, maybe the next season was the 25 order. But either way, 23, 25. When you got to that episode, and I know all the production was just like, oh, my God, you're asking us. Instead of, you know, kind of dialing it back and easing into our hiatus, we're gonna double down and have to recreate every aspect of the show. There's nothing that. That they could use that was the same, except the actors.

[Janine Turner]

But that's what had made it so exciting. Echoing what you said, Cheryl, about, you know, sitting down in the morning to read the script and how they were short stories. You know, we would have all these dream sequences where, you know, Maggie could get dressed up as Amelia Earhart or, you know, all dolled up in some kind of dream. And that was what was so fun of the different. We were speaking Russian or I was in an igloo, you know. You know, want some ice? That was what made the show incredibly stimulating as an actor. And I have to tell you, nothing that I've done in my career and I've done some really cool things have compared to Judine.

[Cheryl Block]

Everyone I know, pretty much everyone on the show tells me that, and I 100% feel the same. That's what I mean. We are so fortunate to have that beautiful experience and now to be able to show it again to the world. I mean, people must stop you all the time now when they're seeing it. It just was an act of love all. I mean, the whole from top to

[Janine Turner]

bottom, there was an energy around it. You know, there was just this energy, this sort of spiritual, beautiful, good light around the whole thing. But as I said, I've done some exciting things. And talk about being tired. I literally wrapped this show on a Friday, flew to Italy on a Saturday, started working in Italy on a Monday, worked three months in Italy, flew back on a Friday, stopped in Texas for one night Saturday, and started work back on Northern exposure for another 25 episodes.

[Cheryl Block]

Believe me, I know we're always worried, are you getting back? But we worry about that. We were very excited for you. But I remember that was a very big movie. I mean, really big. And, yeah, we didn't want to lose you to Italy.

[Janine Turner]

I know, I know. As a matter of fact, at the end of Cliffhanger, they were kind of keeping me and keeping me and keeping me in full. I'm like, I gotta get home. I gotta get home. And I remember getting back to Northern Exposure after having filmed that and then just kind of having been in those mountains and achieving that whole thing that you survived and. But then to get back to Northern Exposure was like coming home to the richness. And I still think as far as the character's concerned, the quality of the show, the teamwork, the love we all still sort of have for one another, even though there were difficult times we all went through. But it's just nothing's compared. Nothing. And you're so spoiled because you go on to another series and you're like, this isn't Northern Exposure. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close

[Cheryl Block]

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[Janine Turner]

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[Rob Fleischman]

This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. Do you know what's really scary? Not screening for colon cancer when you turn 45. The cologuard test is non invasive, requires no special prep or time off work, and ships right to your door. In just three simple steps, Cologuard takes the scare out of colon cancer screening. If you're 45 or older and at average risk. Ask your healthcare provider about the Cologuar test. Cologuard is available by prescription only. Learn more or request a prescription [e-mail] screen. Let's talk about some of the ideas in the show, in the actual episode, because I think there were some really profound notions. You know, one thing that Ned says is that this thing about the idea that one person can have a profound effect on another and two people can work miracles. Two people can change the world. The world, you know, and that's, I think at the heart of this, of this episode is how Sicily and Roslyn, you know, changed the world. So that this, this town emerged from it based on, you know, humanistic notions and, and literary and, and, and philosophical.

[Janine Turner]

Became a place of acceptance is what it became, right?

[Rob Fleischman]

And also challenging the, challenging the patriarchy. She said, Mary says. Mary says, I just don't know. You know, it's an interesting scene. Janine, do you. When you were saying, I just don't know what men want. And then she does that whole interesting psychological riff. Rosalind. Women have been, you know, asking that question since Adam and Eve. Men are conflicted. And then that whole kind of thing with men and their mothers. And it's just, you know, that that's, that's, those are fascinating ideas to put out there, you know, and we had a diverse audience, you know, we had, we had, you know, high brows and low brows and toughs and artists and so to get those notions out, I mean, I don't think they were didactic. I don't think they were trying to do anything except what they loved. But these, these messages that come through are very powerful and in this particular episode is just chock full of them. How a salon, you know, Shelly and, and, and Holling, as I forget what their names were. You know, they, they play Abe and, and Sally.

[Cheryl Block]

Sally.

[Rob Fleischman]

Such a good name, such a great name. And Cynthia looks so beautiful. And they took over, you know, after the end of the episode, it says they're gonna take over. And that became the brick, you know, and how a salon, a place for ideas, is, you know, the hearth of this community. I just love all of that.

[Janine Turner]

Michelle Joyner was cast with me in Cliffhanger.

[Cheryl Block]

Oh, wow.

[Janine Turner]

So we were there together and then she was cast in Cliffhanger. So she falls from the, you know, the very beginning of the, of the, of the movie. But I have a funny behind the scenes story. I remember working with the actress who pre portrayed Joe when we're Tilling the field or out there in the field and whatnot. And she. She goes, God, this is the actress talking, you know, she's like, you all work so hard. She goes, I can't believe how hard all of you've worked, and you've been doing this for, like, months. She goes, give all of you an Emmy.

[Cheryl Block]

Just remember that she said that.

[Janine Turner]

She goes, I can't get over how hard all of you work. Give all of you an Emmy.

[Rob Fleischman]

She played Rosalind, right?

[Cheryl Block]

Rosalind, right?

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, yeah. Jo Jo played. Right, right.

[Cheryl Block]

I just love the moment. That's when you see how Maggie was born. When you look at her after the speech that Rob just said about you don't need to win a man over, you know, and you're just like, yeah, that's true. I mean, it was so subtle, the way you were like, mm, you got it. And

[Janine Turner]

note to self.

[Cheryl Block]

Yeah, exactly. Big note to self. Yeah. I really like that reaction. You. It really hurt her. Really subtle, both of you. Really beautifully done. Oh, my God, I'm so happy I got to be a part of this interview. With this show, particularly, they dreamed of

[Rob Fleischman]

creating a utopian society, you know, and they did. And they did. Yeah.

[Cheryl Block]

It's back to Josh and John about the power of the feminine, as they say. They really. That runs throughout the whole thing subtly.

[Rob Fleischman]

Is that in their other works as well?

[Cheryl Block]

Yes. They're really year in the life is all about family. Just love of family and patriarch. Yeah, that, you know, with the humor that this show came and the wit, you know, it was just very clever. But underneath, it let the women create the town and the beauty and rise up.

[Janine Turner]

Well, so unique. I mean, is that ever done? It's always how the west was won is men, you know, the men. Yes.

[Cheryl Block]

This is in 1992.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. And the fact that the women go in and create the town, it was really, truly original.

[Rob Fleischman]

Right. You're right, Janine. Cause you're looking at it from a different perspective, you know, because history, traditionally, at least older history, is told from the men's point of view. Ironically, this miniseries that I have on now called the Gray House is a Civil War story that is a story that's based on facts that's never been told, but it's all from women's perspective. It's about a female spy ring that actually existed in the south during the Civil War. And so you're seeing the Civil War through these women's eyes, which is, you know, it. It opens up. First of all, it's. It's much Truer to what reality is, but it opens up all these things like that that we don't, you know, ideas and notions that we weren't aware of and makes it makes the world better. I mean, it's, it's a. It's. It's one of the great things about stuff being uncovered that these, that the history is still being uncovered.

[Janine Turner]

Well, men did a lot of wonderful things, so we're not saying they didn't, but.

[Rob Fleischman]

Oh, absolutely.

[Janine Turner]

Of course, you know, that the, the whole concept that these two women went in and created a town and that. I don't know. Have we seen anything like that before or after? I mean, not. Not really. Not really. Not a whole town or, you know, changed. Brought, Brought such the utopian society. It was just, it was a beautiful show. And Cheryl, I just. Tell me again, I want to know when you, when you have the kids with you with the new babies, did you take them to work with you?

[Cheryl Block]

Well, it's so funny, you know, I had the one year old and Josh said, just be the mother. Bring Nick. You know, I went, took him up to Seattle with my husband and then, yeah, I took him to. I don't know. I swear to God, I didn't look at it like work. Yes, I was busy. Oh, when we did win the Emmy 92, my son was two weeks, had just been born, my second son. So I went to the Emmys, you know.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Block]

And I always felt like Northern was the middle child. Quite honestly, in my life. It's really been. That's how I felt very motherly to this show. Josh and John, just as I say, delegate with confidence.

[Janine Turner]

But don't you think you were a groundbreaker as well, sort of the Cicely and Rosalyn and the Maggie o'? Connell? Because there weren't a lot of female producers at the time.

[Cheryl Block]

No, they kept giving me more to do along these 12 years and then to have a company with them in the end of that was just a beautiful ending too. A beautiful story. No, they really made Josh and John made the producer that I am today. Really the confidence and just the trust, you know, that just doesn't happen a lot. Everyone's trying to these days. It's a little bit different. The energy about, you know, territorial, you know, and working with all of you and working with all the producers on the set. We talked all the time, you know, same with the people in Atlanta. It was the collaboration of non egos. It was just really all about, let's get this. Their vision executed.

[Rob Fleischman]

Why do you think it's different now.

[Cheryl Block]

I just don't think there are a lot of, you know, I'm really prejudiced. Josh and John had a vision and as I said way back at cbs, that one call, well, where's the hospital? And they just were like, there is no hospital. If you want a hospital show, go. You know, they stuck to their vision and they support each other and. And they. And the writers were brilliant that were on our shows. And when you get a good script that there is one vision and one real voice, which was Josh and John and then became Josh 100%. It's just wonderful to march in the army with you with that as a leader. I just think that we all revered and trusted him, you know, And I think that. That he didn't let us down. None of them did. It's not just Josh. I mean, there's all of the team. It's such a beautiful team work. We really got to hire the best people there ever was. From writing writers to locations to actors to editors to. The whole thing was. And it all started with no money. That's what people just don't understand. We were an eight episode. $850,000. It's not a lot of money to make, even in those days, you know. And that was the fun of it, I think. We had to really be scrappy a little bit and figure out ways to make it work. So that team effort has always been a part of the show.

[Rob Fleischman]

Yeah. Interesting. How often did you. Did you come up, do you think, up to Seattle? Do you know?

[Cheryl Block]

Only came when there was some issue, unfortunately. I didn't get to come to the fun stuff when there's something to be dealt with or we had to replace something or do, you know, some. You know, I really had to watch every daily of every show. That was primarily what I needed to see what was happening every day once it was shot.

[Rob Fleischman]

That's a lot of work, man.

[Cheryl Block]

We talk about editing. I've been in the Eddie room with Josh for, I think, 10 years. And that's where you learn a lot too. So that's a wonderful job. That's how I started.

[Rob Fleischman]

But on Buckaroo Banzai, I was at it.

[Cheryl Block]

Terms of Endearment.

[Rob Fleischman]

Terms of Endearment. But you do you. You worked on Buckaroo Bonsai as well, no.

[Cheryl Block]

Yeah. And Coin A Squatty. I love editing.

[Janine Turner]

You edited the movie Terms of Endearment?

[Cheryl Block]

No, I was assistant editor. I didn't. But it was the three year. You learned a lot in the editing, which leads to doing story development. Because you can.

[Janine Turner]

You can make or break or change or create or any. You know, editing is an amazing, amazing process.

[Cheryl Block]

Thank you. And Josh and John, you know, detail was essential. That was the job. Watch all details as you know, and that adds on.

[Rob Fleischman]

What do you mean by that? Wait, what do you mean by that? Details.

[Cheryl Block]

You know, I mean, they were meticulous with the scripts. The writers are just incredible executing, but just details. Wardrobe, sets, music, you know, just everything had a flavor. We were all working together. It was very united effort from all areas of this north and south. Editing room. Sound, music. It was incredible lifetime experience for a lot of us. For me especially, you said the key

[Janine Turner]

word, I think, which is collaboration. I just think that people. I have my musical that I've written, and I'm in the choreography, and I've written it in lyrics and I've worked with a composer, and. And it's just. We work so beautifully together. Cause there's not that ego, and it's just. It flows the creativity and the choreographer now it's like we work together, and that's when the magic's made. And when you get head up, you know, when you get up against a stubborn. You know, that. That's like.

[Cheryl Block]

Exactly. We had no bad behavior from anyone, really. And if there was, they didn't come back, really. There was no Big Suras going on, really. I don't know how you guys felt, but. But that's what it seemed to us, that, okay, well, you need a little. I guess we did.

[Rob Fleischman]

No, but it's a. You can't.

[Janine Turner]

We're the passionate racehorses. We're the passion.

[Rob Fleischman]

The creative environment is. Is a. Is a crucible. And I. I don't care. The show. You know, someone. A friend of mine who I'm gonna. I'm not gonna mention his name, he's a famous actor, was telling me this week that he's read something about how he had mistreated a guest on the. Someone had written about that they had come on the show and they. And. And they. This particular guy who's the nicest guy in the world mistreated that person. And. And, you know, and I said, look, you. You, first of all, you're. This person is known as a nice person and is a nice person, but you can't do these shows and not have a bad day and maybe be a little less hospitable to someone who's coming on for two days. It. It happens. I mean, it's. It's a. As we said, the pressure cooker of this environment. Of, you know, again, you. In this particular case, you're looking at episode 22 or 25, whatever it was, the last of the season, and all of. I'm having to go sit down and learn whatever. I mean, I don't think my accent was so great or anything, but I had to learn that. And it took a long time, you know, on top of shooting another show while I was shooting the previous show. And, you know, we all had to kind of go to costume fittings and, and learn how to wear this clothing and get the horses and, you know, it's. It's a tough environment. So I, I love that you. Your takeaway is that there wasn't a lot of acrimony and there wasn't. But there was, you know, there was stuff that happens, and it's just the nature of the beast.

[Janine Turner]

We're up at 4:00am to be in the chair by 5, you know, 5, 5, 30. We're working 12, 16, 18 hours a day. But I always, I was, I always give, you know, there's a. There's a fine line, of course, but. But we're. We are. I always say everybody. People need to understand actors. We're trained to be emotional, and we're trained to be emotional on action. You know, no matter what else is going on in your head. You're having a good day, a bad day, there's something on the set. You're hungry, you're starving, whatever. It's like. And then they take hours to set up the camera, but the actors get maybe, you know, 10 minutes to do what they need to do. And we walk in, they're like, they expect us to do. But it's action. When action, you have to deliver the tears or the emotion or the lines or the sexiness, whatever. And it's like taking a racehorse to put in the gate to run. Right. And then being mad at a horse that they're fast.

[Rob Fleischman]

Yeah, it's well said. That's really well said.

[Janine Turner]

We are emotional people, and it's sometimes hard, and we. But you want us to be emotional people, so we deliver all that emotion. But then sometimes you get punished for being emotional, and it's just not that easy always to turn it off.

[Rob Fleischman]

True.

[Cheryl Block]

Very true. And you had different directors each episode. It wasn't just one. Consistent.

[Janine Turner]

Mainly it was the exhaustion. I think the exhaustion was a big part of it, too.

[Rob Fleischman]

So I think we have to kind of wind it up. Cheryl. But, man, it's been. So. I feel like we could keep going for hours to getting and getting into Other episodes and stuff. Maybe we'll get you back at some point. I know you're super busy, but.

[Cheryl Block]

No, I'd love to.

[Rob Fleischman]

I want to leave this with this last thing that Ned said in one of his monologues, you know, at the end of the show. What happened to the town as it emerged from this, you know, kind of horror place of all kinds of, you know, despair. He said that hope had replaced despair. Right. Which I think is a great way to sum up the show as well as the episode.

[Cheryl Block]

It stays with you.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. I just want to make clear I thought. I didn't ever want to. Didn't think Darren shouldn't play that role. I think I was just kind of confused about, you know, because we were those people, but we weren't those people. And then he was there, and I. He was there as the older person, and I was just kind of confused because I would. Thought it would have been a separate. Never did. I think Darren shouldn't do it. I think. I think Darren is wonderful and did a terrific job with it, and I'm glad he had that opportunity because he's really delivered. So I just want to be really clear. That's not what I was trying to say. I was just a little confused of the juxtaposition there. I just want to be on record, but, yeah, it's.

[Cheryl Block]

So.

[Janine Turner]

Thank you, Cheryl, for coming on and in all the great work.

[Cheryl Block]

Back at you both. Thank you. I hope to do it again with you. Thank you. It was really great. Thank you for all you've done to bring Northern back, really. And these podcasts are so delightful, wonderful to listen to.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, good, good. Well, it kind of cements the legacy a little bit with a little bit of behind the scenes. So I'm nice. It's all going to be out there in the universe somewhere on some satellite, floating around space.

[Rob Fleischman]

There you go.

[Janine Turner]

What is it?

[Cheryl Block]

That's.

[Janine Turner]

They call it the Akashic record. Are you familiar with that?

[Rob Fleischman]

Yeah, I am. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

The Akashic record. I think it's the Hindu. Is the Hindu religion, the Akashic record, that everything's up there and that you. That you can assess it. You know, that's where geniuses just meditate and it comes to them. But now it's really kind of happening. We have all these satellites up there in the universe. We have our own Akashic record up there floating around.

[Rob Fleischman]

There you go.

[Janine Turner]

I'm getting a little philosophical like the

[Rob Fleischman]

show, but no, it's interesting.

[Janine Turner]

We look forward to seeing you next week, and for now we're wrapping. It's been fun to be with you, o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Rob Fleischman]

Actually, I think it should be Fleischman oconnell.

[Janine Turner]

Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media. Greenlight helps kids learn about money by actually using it. It's a debit card and money app that teaches kids to earn, save and spend in real life, not just swipe and hope for the best. Learning happens naturally in the moment. Parents can set limits, see real time spending, and guide better habits all in one place place without constant check ins or cash runs. Don't wait. Try Greenlight Risk free [e-mail] TryGreenlight.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Storytime with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the Next Generation or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire Trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories and I was able to a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it. So I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up where he left off and to my delight, he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love love, pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine, Lightspeed on Spec, and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me.