S3E3: “Oy Wilderness” with Frank Prinzi

Summary

---

Northern Disclosure S3E3: “Oy Wilderness” with Frank Prinzi

Release Date: September 23, 2025
Hosts: Rob Morrow, Janine Turner
Guest: Frank Prinzi (Emmy-winning Cinematographer/Director)

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Northern Disclosure dives deep into “Oy Wilderness,” the third episode of Northern Exposure’s third season. Hosts and series stars Rob Morrow and Janine Turner are joined by special guest Frank Prinzi—the show’s Emmy-winning cinematographer—who helped define the visual style of the series from Seasons 3 and 4. They reminisce about working in the beautiful Pacific Northwest, unpack behind-the-scenes stories, discuss the unique look and feel of the episode, and reflect on the collaborative art of television production.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Welcoming Frank Prinzi & His Impact

• [02:07-02:38] Janine and Rob reflect on the transformative impact Frank Prinzi brought to the show’s visual style, emphasizing his calm, supportive presence and artistic integrity.
• [13:15-15:10] Frank reminisces about joining the show after a call from Universal, following a recommendation and the end of a strike. He quickly realized “that was the favorite show I’ve ever been on” and describes reading Northern Exposure scripts as always “so moved. I would cry a little bit from joy or happiness.”

  "Every time I got a script… I was so moved. I would cry a little bit from joy or happiness." — Frank Prinzi (16:32)

Revisiting “Oy Wilderness”

• [03:50-07:58] Janine and Rob recall shooting on location, the natural ease of performing in authentic environments, and key moments like the “in your dreams, Fleischman” line’s first appearance.
• Rob reads the episode synopsis: stranded in the wilderness, Maggie and Joel “surprise each other,” while Shelley faces her past as her friend Cindy arrives for a divorce she didn’t know she needed.
• They debate the episode’s cinematography choices, with Janine half-jokingly lamenting a lack of close-ups, and Rob defending the wider, more atmospheric shots:

  “In my opinion, Frank Prinzi was the epitome of ‘God is in the details.’” — Janine Turner (02:34)
  "You don’t need close-ups… I think that’s what was so beautiful about it." — Rob Morrow (06:50)

The Art and Challenge of Performance

• [08:11-10:36] Janine reflects on her own performance, feeling that “our chemistry was missing” and wishing she’d played up the subtext more, while Rob points out the script leaned into conflict and withheld romantic resolution by design.
• Discussion of a standout “caveman flashback” sequence and how time and constraints shaped the choices made.

  “I think our electricity… is where we were so great on camera together. And I wish, looking back, that… maybe it should have been in the writing—a little more playfulness, a little more sexuality…” — Janine Turner (08:46)

Frank Prinzi on Cinematography & TV Collaboration

• [22:24-24:32] Frank explains his philosophy: “The story tells you what to do… How can I make the audience want to be with these people, want to be in the tent with you?”
• He details the importance of teamwork and adapting to the story, casting, and collaborative vision of all creatives involved.
• Rob calls attention to Frank’s Emmy, and they reminisce about the episode “Sicily,” for which Frank won:

  “Northern Exposure was a performance show and a writing show. We supported it. Our choices… but it really was about the emotion.” — Frank Prinzi (35:03)
  "This is probably a better award to get than an Oscar for one reason… It fits better the waist of the beautiful girl." — Frank Prinzi (25:13, about the Emmy)

The Visual Language of Northern Exposure

• [19:45-29:13] They discuss the difference between shooting on film (as during Northern Exposure) vs. modern digital; Frank and Janine agree the show benefited from its magical, “humanist, poetic” look.
• Rob notes the show’s refusal to follow visual trends, like rack focus or Steadicam:

  “There was a rule… you couldn’t rack focus… Josh wanted the show to not have a look that everyone else had.” — Rob Morrow (38:50)

Behind-the-Scenes—Directing, Lighting & Set Dynamics

• [34:05-36:47] They talk about the power dynamic between cinematographers (who are show constants) and guest directors (who drop in for an episode). Frank describes this as:

  “It’s not about you. It’s about the story, the actors, performance… Does it touch me?” — Frank Prinzi (36:09)

• [41:15-43:20] Frank and Janine touch on the unique challenge of lighting exteriors in the unpredictable Pacific Northwest, compared to controlled interiors.
• [50:46-53:02] Frank elaborates on the subtleties of lighting interiors—balancing softness, contrast, and visual interest even in mundane spaces, while always working against time constraints.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the magic of Northern Exposure
  “It was magic, guys. As you know, you were there. So that’s why we can smile about it. I’ve never had a cast like that before.” — Frank Prinzi (16:34)
• On cinematography philosophy
  “The story tells you what to do… How can I make the audience want to be with these people, want to be in the tent with you?” — Frank Prinzi (22:24)
• On location shooting’s impact
  “When we got to shoot like that, it was so easy to act, you know, because you were in the same environment as your character…” — Rob Morrow (03:50)
• On recurring collaboration and the challenge for guest directors
  “I think it’s about collaboration. It’s learning to be able to open, to get what you want, but not because you want it, but just to express the belief that it might work.” — Frank Prinzi (36:09)
• On the reality of TV production
  “I get there at seven in the morning and someone comes up to me and taps their watch… you’re never going to make your day. All day long… and yet I’ve never not made a day.” — Rob Morrow (51:56)
• On the legacy
  “Anything with Northern Exposure. I’m in love with that show… It’s the most lovable, incredible, creative, poetic, hilarious… I’m really the biggest fan of this.” — Frank Prinzi (56:59)

---

Highlighted Timestamps

• 00:40 – Introduction of Frank Prinzi’s impact on the show
• 03:50 – Rob & Janine reminisce about acting in real locations
• 04:21 – The debut of “in your dreams, Fleischman”
• 15:15 – Frank shares his journey to Northern Exposure
• 16:32 – Frank on the joy of reading each week’s script
• 22:24 – Frank explains his approach to cinematography and lighting
• 25:23 – Frank reads his Emmy inscription for “Sicily”
• 38:50 – Discussion about show’s unique visual rules (no rack focus)
• 41:15 – Shooting exteriors in the Pacific Northwest
• 50:46 – Lighting Shelley and Holling’s bedroom: crafting contrast and feeling
• 51:56 – Rob on the relentless pace of TV directing
• 55:22 – Frank’s story about pausing to appreciate the filming environment

---

Episode-Inspired Reflections

• The magic of collaboration: Hosts and guest agree the series’ charm was born not just in writing and performance, but from a collaborative trust and attention to detail on all sides of production.
• Visual storytelling matters: Frank’s approach—“God is in the details”—created a sense of warmth and magic that elevated the show far beyond many contemporary TV series.
• Embracing constraints: The cast and crew recall, often with a laugh, the creative choices necessitated by schedule, resources, weather, and set size. Instead of lamenting these, they celebrate how constraints can enhance creativity.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode is a love letter to the collaborative, often-unsung technical artistry of television—specifically, how Frank Prinzi’s vision and warmth made Cicely, Alaska feel like home for both cast and audience. The conversation is rich with technical insight, heartfelt nostalgia, and behind-the-scenes candor. For fans of Northern Exposure or anyone interested in the art of making television, this episode is a treasure trove of inspiration and stories.

---

Not to miss:

• Frank Prinzi displaying his Emmy [25:01]
• Hilarious debate over on-screen close-ups [06:50]
• Memories of the cast as cavemen in the parking lot [29:51]
• On the emotional rewards of the work:

  “I think that looked better because it was a different moment… We don’t ever want to phone anything in.” — Frank Prinzi (49:20)

---

For more episodes and exclusive behind-the-scenes stories, subscribe to Northern Disclosure on Evergreen Podcasts.

Transcript

[A]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com Teen adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained. One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. The new fragrance by Miu Miu, defined by you. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Northern Disclosure, where my friend and acting professional comrade, he and I, Rob Morrow, host this show, Northern Disclosure, where we talk about all of Northern Exposure episodes one by one by one. And we're thrilled that you're with us today. Hello, Rob.

[B]

Hey, Jeanine. How you doing out there?

[A]

I'm fine. I'm in Texas. Rob's in New York.

[B]

No, no, I'm in la.

[A]

Oh, that's right, you're in la.

[B]

I will be in New York tomorrow, though.

[A]

That's right. He's from New York. We're both from. We both were actors in New York. But our special guest is from New York today, which is Frank Prenzi, who is our Emmy award winning cinematographer for the third season. He was cinematographer for the third and fourth season. Thrilled to have him here. He's a really good friend of mine. I was just thrilled he was there with us for episode three and four. I think his work was just beautiful.

[B]

I agree. And don't you remember from the minute, the minute he showed up, it was just like, I mean, Jimmy was great. I love Jim Heyman and he did a great job. But Frank showed up and he just was so sure of what he was doing and he created a new version. You know, he made the show his own, which is, you know, what. What I guess is that that's what you really want from a. And. And was such a great presence, always calm and. And supportive and. And then he ended up directing. I think it may have been his directorial debut.

[A]

Yeah, well, ask him about that. I. I believe it may have been. And then he. Well, when we do the introduction, I'll say more. But he then was worked on Law and order for 57 episodes in New York. So he was a cinematographer for that. For 57. And then he directed 34. So he has many, many, many other wonderful, amazing things on his resume which he can talk about with us because we want to talk about the scope of his work. Because the minute he arrived, not only did where our lights were. Our faces, not lights, our faces lit in this beautiful, creative manner, but the. Everything lit up behind. You know, you can look behind a lamp or this or that. And in my opinion, Frank Prinzy was the epitome of God is in the details. And I've worked with other cinematographers since that will line you up with a shot with a, you know, electrical cord coming out of your, you know, over your shoulder. There are very few people, I think, that, that are as talented and committed to, to first rate quality as, and to the art of cinematography and directing the Frank Prince. So I'm excited to have him. So, Rob, let's talk about the episode a little bit. Oil Wilderness. What did you think when you watched it again?

[B]

You know, it was so much fun. And I remember shooting it and being out in that landscape and, you know, it was those, those. When we got to shoot like that, it was so easy to act, you know, because you were there, you were in the same environment that your character was in. And so it just was, it made it kind of effortless. And I think you and I had a lot of fun stuff to do. And I guess you'll, I'm sure you'll bring this up, but this, it's. This is the first time we hear.

[C]

The phrase, oh, in your dreams, Fleischmann.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

I guess that's right.

[B]

Yeah, it was, it's a, it's a, it's a charming little, little duet we get to do. And, and then the other story, you know, this, the other storyline of, of Shelley, you know, getting a divorce after, you know, being with Holling for all these years from, from this guy she was with before is a, is a, is a funny, funny little yarn. I'll read the synopsis. So the synopsis is Joel and Maggie are forced to make an emergency, becomes stranded. They end up surprising each other. Shelly has a visit from her best friend, best friend from home, Cindy. When Cindy asks for a divorce, Shelley gets mad.

[A]

First of all, I, I just love Frank Princey, but I remember being on the episode and I. Maybe Frank remembers the director a little bit better than, than we do.

[B]

That was Miles Watkins, who only directed one episode.

[A]

Yeah, Miles Watkins. And I was upset. And it's funny, a lot of times you and I watch the shows again and we're just so removed, you know, we don't really hear the looping anymore. We really aren't like obsessed with the cuts. It's just like we're just removed from it. But I remember having a conversation with Frank Brinzey on that show, which we'll talk about with him, where I was upset I wasn't getting enough close ups because there were these great shots of you, like, I don't know, something out of Peter o' Toole in Lion in Winter. You know, it's like beneath and you're looking up and actors. This might be interesting for people to hear. You know, actors have to always look out for themselves, which Frank always looked out for me. But to like, make sure you're getting the fair share of coverage. And all I remember about the episode really is that, that I remember Frank and I had a discussion afterwards and I walked up to Frank, which we should bring him on for this probably. But I said, I'm not getting any close ups on this. And Rob's getting all the close ups, you know what I mean? And he goes, just think Woody Allen. Woody Allen, you know, and Woody Allen. But of course, I was watching it last night at 3am thinking, well, with Woody Allen, usually if no one's on the camera, no one's on camera. You don't have like one person on the camera and the other person's not on the camera. So anyway, I watched it again and I did wish for more close ups on my face, like when I was coming out of that forest. Like. What is it, Rob? What is it? What? Our Fleischmann. What is it? What is it? Are you okay? I'm like an ant, though. Though the scope of the. The cinematography.

[B]

See, and I disagree because I think that's what was so beautiful about it. You don't need close ups. Are. You know, first of all, there's no way that I was getting more close ups than you because you couldn't edit it together, you know, so now you.

[A]

Were, and you did in this particular episode. And that's okay.

[B]

Well, maybe because I was alone when I was alone. But if I'm in a scene with you and I have a close up, you're going to have to have a close up because it has to compliment. But meanwhile, when you're coming out of the woods like you did, I thought those moments were so effective. And you know, it's funny because I watched the Bear. Do you watch that show?

[A]

No.

[B]

And it drives me crazy because it's a. Obviously it's A really good show and great people involved in it, but 95% of it is like, extreme close ups. And it drives me crazy because I.

[A]

Feel like I wouldn't want that. No, no, I'm not advocating for. I'm not advocating for extreme close ups. I'm just saying I was doing a lot of work and it would have been cool to have seen at certain points, like a little pop in for a second. But then we. Anyway, whatever. We'll talk to Frank about it.

[B]

But I want. I thought your performance, just to assuage you, is really strong, and you look great.

[A]

I didn't think I liked my performance in it.

[B]

No, no, you were great. And you were believable. Like, I believed you when you were taking that plane down. I believed you when you were talking about the engine. I believed you when you were going hunting. You know, I. It. It all seemed believable to me.

[A]

All right, well, you know, I think this was the first episode I looked back as far as my acting is concerned as well, and I'm like, something was missing, you know, I needed to be doing something else. And. And I know a lot of times you and I would struggle with lines on the set, sometimes me more than you, because I was always emotional first. But a lot of times what I learned finally is if I'm. If I've been on this episode for 100, if I' on this series for 100 episodes, if I'm tripping and I can't remember it, it's not always my fault. Sometimes it's, you know, the right. The writing's fault. And I look at this episode and I loved that caveman.

[B]

Oh, that was so funny.

[A]

Yeah, that caveman flashback was awesome. But if I had to look at it and I thought what was missing, and I guess I could have brought more to this. I think our chemistry was missing, you know, instead of just fix the plane, fix the plane, fix the plane. If I'd played it a little more like sexual attraction, and yet I was just trying to kind stay zoned on. She's just trying to get out of the forest. But it didn't seem like it had a lot of layers, you know, that was just. And I think our electricity is where we were so great on camera together. And I wish, looking back that. But then I thought, well, maybe it should have been in the writing. A little more playfulness, a little more sexuality between the two of us.

[B]

I think they definitely pushed the conflict here. There was no doubt that we were at each other's throats like so much. But I think that's the finesse of doing a show like this for so long is. It's the will they, won't they kind of thing. And you have to finesse that. Like, you have to bring us. Like, we have this moment in the tent where you're about to kiss me. We're about to. And then it stops. And that's like a perfect. That's a perfect device because it keeps us apart again. Yet you can tell what the subtext is, is that they're attracted to each other. And so they may have gone too far in pushing the conflict, you know, because they had to build it up. That's the only thing I can think of. I know what you're saying. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Looking back, I was like, I wish I. And I'm talking about myself as an actress. Right. I wish I had played more subtext.

[B]

Right.

[A]

A little more subtext.

[B]

And I understand what you're saying.

[A]

We could have had a lot of fun. We could have had a lot of fun with kind of going against that sexual, you know, like the magnet and playing against it more. Anyway, it was a great episode.

[B]

And you're right. It's really interesting now that you're saying it. I can see. I can see the scenes kind of having another layer. For sure.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Well, it's been 35 years, you know, so, like, a long time.

[B]

We finally got it. I got it now. Let me do it.

[A]

I was a little confused by that, too, because when we are landing, which, by the way, staying calm like that, and you're emotional. My father was a West Point military graduate, class of 57. And back then it was Air Force army, and he was in the Air Force. And he always told me, I would have made a horrible pilot, by the way. Have we ever talked about that?

[C]

No.

[A]

Okay. My dad's like, you would have made a terrible pilot. I'm like, why? Because you're too emotional. You're too emotional. You have to stay calm under. So the one thing I knew that I had just.

[B]

If you decide to get your pilot's license, I'll. I'll be. I'm not necessarily going to get on the plane with you.

[A]

Maybe I will. Wouldn't that be empowering? Anyway. Hi, dad. I'm in the sky with you. But I knew in that scene, I had to be totally calm, totally with it, totally calm. And then you're the one that's freaking out. So that was kind of fun. And then at the. But when we went down, my propellers were working. We were Just losing altitude. So when you fixed it and suddenly the propellers worked as if that was what fixed it. I was a little confused by that, but maybe we call that what Jim Charleston always said, creative license.

[B]

Right. What the engines were cutting out. Wasn't that as we were going down?

[A]

I guess. I don't know. Yeah, I didn't know that the propeller was really problem. I thought altitude was the problem. But maybe the propeller doesn't work. Altitude's the problem.

[B]

I guess the prop. Without the propeller, you're going to have an altitude problem.

[A]

Anyway, you fixed it, so that was really cool. That was a good. That was a good arc for you, wasn't it? And that was actually. That was actually my favorite work for myself because I had all that intensity when I came out of the forest and I'd fallen in the hill and I was mad at you for.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

I thought that was my truest. Anyway, ladies and gentlemen, he is dear and near to my heart. I've kept in touch with him for years. I absolutely love him. He is the most. Not only is he this, this genius with cinematography and directing, he is so suave and he always had on fabulous perfume and he was sexy and he would, he would stand in front of me with his little like light thing and I'd always smell his perfume. He was like the epitome of old school gentlemen class, cinematographer. And I, every job I've done since there is yet to be a Frank Prinzi. So I'm thrilled he's here. The Emmy award winning Frank Prinzee who just made our faces look beautif. He made the, the scenery look beautiful. He made the bar, wherever everything was just lit in this beautiful multi tiered way and. But he's also a fabulous director and a really good friend of mine. Frank Princey, welcome to the show.

[C]

Hey, guys.

[B]

Hey, Frank. So good to see you, man. It's been too long.

[C]

Yeah, it's. It's funny how. How quick as we heard forever, how.

[B]

Quick time goes and it's amazing our paths haven't crossed. It's so wild. We live in the same world. We're in the same business. That's so. It's such a w. Yeah.

[C]

Who knows? Maybe we did, you know, maybe you passed by in a cab while I was walking down the street or whatever.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

Yeah. But I've seen Frank. I called you up every time I was in New York.

[C]

Yeah. You guys look the same way. It's incredible. I love it.

[A]

It's just makeup and great key light wow.

[C]

Seriously. I mean, honestly, you guys can see yourselves and you go, yeah, I look a lot like I did then. Life. Living life. Good. And I just wanted a couple things. She said something was missing. Well, I think that's for all of us. We go rushing, trying to get our schedule, trying to get show after show after show, and we really do our best, and it's quite good. The best we do. So I looked at it and I said, oh, man, I wish I. So, I mean, I think all of us, being the artists that we are, want to do better with everything we see. And when I look back at anything I do, it's rare that I go, yeah, that's cool. That's great.

[B]

Yeah, it's a good point.

[C]

I could do it a little different. And I thought. I don't just say this, but I thought the chemistry was fantastic between you guys all the time. I mean, that's the success of the show. I'm in a little disagreement with Janine. I thought it was more special show than maybe she did.

[A]

Okay, good, good, good, good.

[B]

Hey, Frank, tell us a little bit about. Tell us a little bit how you came to the show. Do you remember?

[C]

Well, I remember that, you know, we were. There was a strike, like in 89 or something.

[B]

That's right. I think it was 89.

[C]

And I was writing, working on stuff, and one day my brother calls me up and goes, frank, you got to see the show Northern Exposure, man. It's wacky. It's like, you, man, you'd love it. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool. Okay. But I didn't look at it. So what happened is one day I get a call from Universal because I had just worked. Done up a Lou Gossett Jr. Miniseries, and I guess they liked me on that show, and they invited me to do Northern Exposure, which was the best show on tv. So I said, you got it. I'm down.

[B]

Did you. Didn't have to meet. You didn't meet Josh and John first?

[C]

No, it was Universal, so I don't really. I don't know how that worked out. All I know is that my brother mentioned it and, yeah, I'll see it. And then all of a sudden, a producer called from Universal and said, would you like to do the show? And I jumped on it and a couple things. I'm sure everybody said it, but I don't just say this, but that was the favorite show I've ever been on.

[B]

Oh, that's so great to hear. So many people do say that, right?

[C]

Everyone says it and all.

[A]

Well, I feel the same way. I feel the same.

[C]

It was magic, guys. As you know, you were there. So that's why we can smile about it. It's like the joint experience that we all had. The actors, the cast. I've never had a cast like that before. And I've worked well. I've done a lot of shows. It's been 40 years for me. And for me to say that Northern Exposure was really the greatest joy. The stories. Every time I got a new script, I, you know, the first season, well, I did pretty much straight through. I went from show to show to show. Now we alternate very often, so I went from one show to another. Every time I got a script, like on a Sunday or whatever, I was so moved. I would cry a little bit from joy or happiness. And I. You never. I've never on any series and I've done a bunch. Ever had writing character, the dynamics of the locations. Are you kidding me? I remember I was sitting on walk. Sitting in Sicily with Rob Thompson and Josh. And we were looking around. It was in the fall. It was just perfect weather, crisp air, fantastic. And we said, you know, I don't think it gets better than this.

[B]

We talk about it a lot, Janine and I. When we got to go up there, it was always a kind of an adventure, you know, both at night when the crew wrapped and, you know, during the day when we were out there. It just was. It was a blessing to be in that. In that beautiful environment and people were happy. Right? It was a happy crew for the most part.

[C]

Totally. I mean, I don't remember any problems. I think it was. We were up in beautiful country actor. You know, people very often say when you get on a film, it's like a family. But this definitely was. This was like a family. The crew, the cast. I just thought it was. I don't. I really didn't have a better time on a show.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by FXX and Hulu. An all new season of Futurama is back, blending heartfelt moments with razor sharp humor while accidentally saving the day. The planet Express crew is back, defying gravity and common sense. From the creator of The Simpsons comes 10 new episodes where the romance is hotter, the threats are bigger, and the action hits harder. Don't miss the all new season of Futurama. Watch it Mondays on FXX or streaming on Hulu for a limited time. At McDonald's, get a Big Mac Extra Value meal for $8. That means two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles onions on a and medium fries and a drink. We may need to change that jingle. Prices and participation may vary. Do you notice anything? You know, Jeanine's. One of her things is that she loves the film versus the tape that we use. Now. When you were watching it, did that come out at you that you were watching film?

[C]

Well, what I saw on my work was the transfer was real bright.

[B]

That was always the case. That was the guys at the broadcast. What happened is no matter what you did on the set, no matter what you did in post, they give it to cbs and the guys in the booth at broadcast just go all. To all the knobs. So it was really frustrating.

[C]

So when I see it, I sort of go for me, for my work. But I lose that feeling pretty quick because I engage so much. And even after all these years after have been there, I'm the great. I'm the best audience, the biggest fan. I will tell you.

[A]

I think that's part of it is when we watch it, we all. Because, look, I've said this before on the show, not everybody with whom you work cares passionately about what they do. And I think you all three of us know that we've been on shows and people phone it in, they do whatever, and they're not true artist. And so if you really care about what you're doing, which Rob did, I did. You did. Then you look at your work with an eye of how could I have done that better? What could I have done differently? But it all did come together. You said the word in a magical, magical way. And Frank, when you came, look, Jim Heyman did a very kind of a creative, interesting, Rembrandt kind of thing and he created the show and he's terrific. But when you came on the show, I was so excited to have, you know, light on my face. You know what I mean? But, but, but in a. Still in a very sort of, you know, it could be. It could be a lit. But it was always. I was. I felt I was taken care of as a woman. And, and you don't always get that anymore, especially now. It's like, we'll light it and post, you know, but, but there was a. There was kind of the way you would light the way you would bring. Talk about that a little bit. And this isn't necessarily the episode because we were outside so much. You know what I mean? You could also talk about the dynamic of the power that the cinematographer has next to the visiting director because the director comes in for a week or two and you're there for two years. So you had sway. And I learned from you. I directed a short film. And what I learned from you is God is in the details. And we would line up a shot, and I learned this from you, Frank. And I would say, no, no, no, no, no. I want the edge of that sunflower pedal, you know what I mean, in the left hand side of the shot. And that's, that's where the genius is. And I think you talk to us about the way you would kind of come in and light in, in your. In your way with the opals. You took your time. You did a beautiful, beautiful job.

[C]

Well, I. I tell you the stories and the faces. I think sometimes you get into a project and you want to do it the way you want to do it, and that isn't always the right way. Meaning find the story. What am I trying to say? We need to make you guys look lovable. We need to have the romance. We need it to be magical. So sometimes you might give a little bit more light if you start going really ultra dramatic. And it's about the lighting, I think. Think we're missing the point. So it's pretty easy job for me, I think cinematography in that the story tells you what to do. Like, you guys, too. What's the performance? You could do it a million different ways. So basically, you look at the story and you go, you know, how can I make the audience want to be with these people, want to be in the tent together with you? You know, to fall in love with you? So that's why sometimes. And I do a lot of work, I've done some movies where the director wanted to go a certain direction. And I thought, wow, you know, I did 1980s, 200 cigarettes, and she wanted it a little bit more.

[B]

Was that Risa?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Risa Braiman Garcia, who was a big casting director, and that was her debut as a director.

[C]

Yeah, I love her. I love her.

[B]

She's great.

[C]

But I thought it should be more gritty because it was 1980 in the East Village and that's when I was there during that time. But the director, and I guess rightly so, because a lot of people still see it and love it, wanted it to be fuller, I don't want to say in a negative sense, but a little bit more magic than reality. And I think it's important that the team gets together from the writers, everybody, and we decide what route we're going to take.

[B]

Right. Because there's nothing worse than having the creatives in conflict with each Other. Because then it just became. Although it might. Something might emerge, but usually it ends up being a frustrating situation. By the way, I see your. I see his Emmy back there. Janine, have you spotted that on the.

[C]

Oh, show us your Emmy.

[A]

Go get your Emmy. Show it to us. We were all not nominated, but we did not win.

[C]

But you did.

[A]

Go get your. Go get your Emmy. Go get your Emmy. Show it to us.

[C]

It's a little dusty, and I have a Christmas thing hanging on it.

[A]

Oh, we can't see it. Bring it into. In front of your face. There it is. How exciting.

[C]

You know, it really. I think this is probably a better award to get than an Oscar for one reason.

[B]

You can hang stuff.

[C]

It fits better. The waist of the beautiful girl.

[B]

There you go. Wait, so what does it say? Can you read the inscription?

[C]

Let's see if I can read it. It says 1991. 92 Primetime Emmy Award Outstanding individual achievement in Cinematography for a series. Northern Exposure, Sicily. Frank Prinze.

[B]

Oh, that was a great episode. Of course. You remember Jeanine, the episode. Sicily. Of course.

[A]

Right. That's where I had to get out to go do Cliffhanger. I've got a great story about that, but we'll. We'll probably do that another day. Yeah. Sicily. That was an amazing show. I thought you won for Soul Christmas, but I guess Diane won for that Soulmate.

[C]

Another great show. Another great show.

[A]

That was a beautifully lit show. You had Thanksgiving. Didn't you have Thanksgiving? Which had to be. Your lighting was.

[C]

That was.

[A]

I think what you're talking about. What you're talking about is finding the collaboration and. And the kind of center point. I think that's what's so interesting for me as an actor and maybe interesting for people who are listening. It is truly a collaborative experience. Right. Like, our face may be on the screen, but it's the writing, it's the lighting, it's the directing, it's the editing, it's the music, it's the costumes. The costumes can tell a story. It's the makeup. It's all of us coming together to tell this story. But I love what you're talking about of finding the fine line, because I see. I want everyone to have their artistic integrity, which you certainly did, because I think that the way you lit was beautiful, and it was. Been spoiled forever. Not just with my face, but with just look. I worked with some photographers lately who would, you know, set up a shot that was just on a white wall. And I'm like, well, this isn't what Frank Princey would do. I mean, I would never say that. I would never say that. But I thought that, you know, but it's finding that fine line because so many times I see this gritty type of high def thing and you can't even see the actors faces or they're doing that. The sun is coming in from here so that actor is going to get some light, but this other actor is going to be completely dark and we're not going to see any, any emotions that they're portraying. So it is kind of a fine line, right? It's like let's get a little bit of light on their face so we can see the tears in their eyes or what they're doing. You can't blot out one for the other.

[B]

I mean, it depends on what, it depends on the material. Right. If there, if you, you know, there's plenty of times where we, we want things in shadow and that, that conveys a lot too. But you know, if, if the, the, the. It's bad when you need to be seeing someone and you're. And you're not. That's when it can be bad.

[A]

But I'm talking about more character driven stories that I see.

[C]

Especially these kind of dramatic northern exposure. I'm gonna use the usual magical heartwarming, all the quirky, all the words that everybody uses. But it really was. I told you, I, I've never read scripts that gave me such joy. Seriously. I mean I've done movies where I said wow, man, this is ass kicking. This is.

[B]

I remember you used to come in so excited about an episode.

[C]

Oh, come in every, every show. So I have to say that it does totally. Like both of you guys said, you're both correct. Is that it is about the material. There's some shows where you're not supposed to see. You're supposed to see the silhouette, which I always tell people. That's a good cheat. Do a silhouette. People say it will say it looks great. But this was not the show for that. This show was more. I, I don't know what more to say. It just felt right. It was warm, it was cuddly. It's all these things. The reason why it was such a big hit is it was humanist, it was poetic, it had everything and yeah, funny.

[B]

Let's talk a little about the episode. Robin Green, here we are again. Wrote it and you know it's basically two stories, right? There's not three stories.

[A]

Yes. And I loved our flashback as cavemen. I'm like, oh my gosh, that is so much Fun, because just the way we had those wigs and the leaves in our wigs and the bones and. Frank, I'm interested about that shot because whether it was. You know, I think that another thing that's interesting for people behind the scenes to understand is sometimes you're up against a time constraint, right?

[B]

Not sometimes. Always.

[A]

Yeah, always.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So in that Mastodon, you know, cavemen thing, we were doing this playful interplay, but there was no coverage. You know what I mean? It was just this two shot, and I thought, what was.

[B]

By the way, I remember it was shot. It was shot in the parking lot.

[A]

No, I don't remember that at all.

[B]

Is that where we did it? Yeah, we shot. It was like one. You know, it wasn't a lot of set, and we just.

[C]

Just.

[B]

They came out into the. And set it up in the parking lot.

[A]

It was so much fun to be able to play that character.

[B]

Woody Crocker. We sing his praises always.

[C]

He was epic. He was epic the whole.

[A]

But the hair and makeup, too, to do those wigs for us.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

And costuming to create that look. Do you remember that, Frank? It's probably hard to get two cameras in there in the tent to get coverage on that because they really couldn't see Rob's face at all. You could kind of see mine when I lifted up my head. I was in the forefront in the beginning. But that when we were kind of. Of being playful with each other, I.

[C]

Think that, you know, there's a case where there's no lights, there's a fire burning, and it's another time, another era, and still has to have its magic. But, you know, that's what I liked about a lot of the scripts, too, is we jumped around. We went different places. There were, like, flashbacks or little asides that led us deviate a little bit from the normal.

[A]

That was the fun of it.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not saying that the lighting wasn't great in that scene. I'm just saying we didn't have any coverage. And I think sometimes coverage is a matter of A, artistic integrity, of what everybody wants. Or it could be B, that we're running out of time. Or it could be C, that we can't get the two cameras in there, or a camera over the shoulder, that the tent was too small or whatever it might be.

[B]

You know, I was thinking along, in terms of the story that I remember, it jumped out at me that. That John Chris Stevens is able to basically annul a marriage, like, on the air. Like, I don't think that. Right. You can't really do that. Right. They just kind of made that up, I guess.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Creative license is what that was. Because, of course, that wasn't legitimate. Yeah.

[B]

Right. So Shelley's married the whole show, right?

[C]

It's like that. It was incredible. I was just talking about it today to a friend. You know, I ride my bike in the morning, and we went to have coffee, and I said, you know, it was a divorce. It was. Well, if I married you, this way we can go the opposite way, which.

[A]

Is the way they used to do it in Rome. You know this, Frank, you traveled the world, right? In Rome, you would get married, and all you needed was one other person to say, to witness the divorce, and you would say, we're divorced, and you were divorced. So in a way.

[B]

Oh, is that true? I didn't know that.

[A]

Well, pretty sure I've read that. So they would just say, you're divorced, and that's all it took, right?

[B]

Well, I guess they took license with that. Cause it was such a. It's such a funny scene. So the basic premise, right, is that Shelley was married to this hockey player in the town that she lived in, and she left without getting divorced. Comes to Sicily with Maurice, meets Holling, and they hook up and they become a couple. And meanwhile, back home, this girl Cindy, who's played by Christine Elise, did a great job. I think she came on a couple episodes. She is. She hooks up with the boy and they get married. And only after six months of them being married does he say he's still married to Shelly. So she comes on a mission to get her to divorce. And what's funny is that Shelley, out of some kind of preservation of youth, doesn't want to give the divorce. Initially. She's like, I don't want to give it. And they have some really touching scenes about their childhood and about growing up and. And then it gets. It's. I love what goes on between her and Holling. Once again, you know, where she says, you know, he's so concerned that. That he's making her get old too fast. And she says, no, it's the opposite. I'm making you young.

[A]

Making you young, which is why they go out, which is really awesome. And Frank, talk about, like, I think about the scene in the. In the bathroom with the stalls and whatnot. Talk about the. The. The camaraderie and the kind of push and shove between a visiting director who's there for one week and you, who's there all the time. I mean, I watched this dynamic Take place. The director might say, let's do. Let's do this. And you would say, well, you know, hey, you know, you might want to go do this. This. Talk about that a little bit. Because. Because there's a nuance there that happens.

[C]

Yeah, I think that we all do that if we have a different idea. The actors all the time, you guys would say stuff like, maybe I wouldn't. Oh, I remember. This is a great little story. I remember the director said to me, he said, hey, let's all stand by the bed. So Rob won't go there, because I don't want him to go there. It was early morning, and we're there, and we're sitting there standing there, and all of a sudden, Rob moves over and he goes, excuse me, guys. And he goes over to the bed. You know, you look at him, there's a certain game playing. There's a certain. The key is, in the end, if there's no ego and you follow what the director wants. But we know the story and then we know the characters. So, you know, there's always places where you might disagree, but sometimes you disagree, and then you see it and you go, hmm, hmm. You know what? That was correct. So I think it's about collaboration. So I think, again, it's to be open. It's not about you. It's about the story, the actors, performance. And like I always say is, Northern Exposure was a performance show and a writing show. We supported it. Our choices, you know, the directing and the. And the cinematography and all that. But it really was about the emotion. And that's the only thing I always say to everybody is, does it touch me? Do I feel emotion? I'm sure everybody says that it's just the rule of making films are, am I touched? Do I feel something? Am I excited? So with a director, there's always challenges, and you learn from some. Some aren't up to par. Sometimes I'm not up to par, you know, so basically, it's just collaboration. It's learning to be able to open, to get what you want, but not because you want it, but just to express the belief that it might work. It may touch people more.

[B]

Janine, do you have your favorite lines?

[A]

Gosh, no. I was 3:00am What?

[B]

This is a first. Oh, this is a first. In our podcast, in your dreams.

[A]

Dreams, Fleischman. I guess I'm gonna make you young at the end. I think John Corbett, annulling the marriage. But. But, no, I didn't. But. But I will say, I. I think that it's it's that sense of. Of collaboration of the guest director comes on the show and he's sort of a fish out of water and he's up against a tidal wave. I don't even know that I would ever even want to direct episodic television. I mean, as far as just like one time as a guest person. Rev Frank, you did it. And Rob, you've done it for many, many episodes. But you've got those actors that know exactly what they want. You've got the cinematographer that knows what works and doesn't work. You've got the first assistant director that says, we have no time for that. You have the producers that come in and say, we gotta loop that. You can't do this, you can't do that. And I remember I worked on another series where it was the executive producers hovering over the, over the director at all times. I mean, it's, it's hard to be a director to walk in to this kind of machine.

[B]

It can be tricky. And they, and, and sometimes DPs will test, especially if they smell inexperienced. Like when I was first starting out and I was an actor, known as an actor, and I would walk on a set, DP would kind of give me, try to kind of push me around. And, you know, I knew, I knew my. I know my stuff. I studied photography. So it was quick. I could quickly assert my authority. But it was initially, it was like I had to really make a point of saying, look, I know what I'm doing and the camera's going over there and that's what we're doing. But, but I think that they don't do that necessarily out of animosity. They are, they're charged, as Frank will attest, you know, as a, as a constant force. You're, you're, you have to keep the consistency of the show. So you have to. You. You may have to challenge a director.

[C]

Yeah, I like to see a different vision, as long as it still gets the emotion out of this story and is in keeping.

[B]

Like, I don't know if you remember this, but there was a rule, a hard rule on Northern Exposure. You couldn't rack focus. Like, they just never, you never, you never see it. I mean, maybe once in a blue moon, but you, like, couldn't have someone in the background and do a, you know, a long rack focus. And the only time, I mean, look, you have to do it if you're focusing to someone in the background, but in a classic sense of like a, you know, a kind of a snapback or someone, you know, they. They didn't do it because I think there were certain conventions that were used a lot at the time. You know, like, for instance, in the 70s, you would do. Instead of a dolly, you would use a zoom, you know, and that became out of fashion. And I think Josh wanted the show to not have a kind of a look that everyone else had.

[A]

I like that a lot because I think I don't like these Steadicam shots that go, actor, actor, actor, actor, actor, actor. Because I feel like the camera becomes the star, and it's all about the camera and that you could feel the actor going, oh, oh, oh, camera's on me now. So that's kind of cool in a way that they wanted to keep it as organic as possible.

[C]

Well, I was just saying that I'm a little anti rules in filmmaking, but if you. I agree with Josh. I think stay with the actors. You know, I'm a big fan of Ozu and simple filmmaking. Mike Lee, all these people who just. It's not about the camera.

[B]

Right. It's kind of a classic style.

[C]

Exactly. And I think he was right there. I directed a short, a half hour short a couple years back that was. And I said, you know, it's classic. I don't want flares. Rack, focus, half crazy. I went very simple, straightforward. First of all, we had to move. And I made the technique, the storytelling fit the budget, too. But there's a time where people spend too much time trying to make too much of the camera.

[A]

We did have some great cinematic shots. I don't remember where we were or where that plane was or where we were.

[B]

Yeah, we were right outside of Rosslyn.

[A]

Rosslyn. Okay. All those pine trees and being out in the nature. And we would have to drive out there and so, Frank, talk a little bit about lighting. I mean, obviously, the idiosyncrasies of lighting interiors. But exteriors have a art all into themselves. My short film had a lot of exteriors. What are your thoughts about the exteriors between Rob and me and filming those beautiful shots there and what we had to do?

[C]

Well, I think, as any cinematographer will tell you, the difficulty is doing exteriors because you have to shape what's given. You have to work with timing, what time of day, schedule, where do you move the actors with the sun, it takes a lot of hardware. Inside, you're creating a world. It's from scratch. And almost everything goes. A night exterior, almost everything goes. But in the day, you can't add too much light on the face or it looks like we're not. It's not real. So it is a challenge outside. And I think it was sort of a cheat in a lot of ways because the locations we had were epic. We had. I. If you go over that and just say, let's. If you take a piece of east, say, just say locations and go over all the locations of our show. And it was a cheat. It was so beautiful that we. It's about choosing the right angle, obviously, but it is. Doing exteriors is very difficult to match throughout the day. So it doesn't. Because the sun is moving. You got to worry about shadows from the trees, from the face. You have to put up all types of diffusion to soften the light. So, yeah, I would say, and almost anybody would say a daytime exterior is the biggest challenge. If you can do that, you can pretty much do everything.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet, fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top. Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guaranteed. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion. EBay, things people love. Imagine fast hydration combined with balanced energy. Perfectly flavored with zero artificial sweeteners. Introducing Liquid Ivy's new energy multiplier. Sugar free. Unlike other energy drinks, you know, the ones that make you feel like you're glitching, it's made with natural caffeine electrolytes, so you get the boost without the burnout. Liquid IV's new energy multiplier. Sugar free hydrating energy. Tap the banner to learn more. I kind of. I kind of feel like Shirley MacLaine a little bit. You know, she knew her lighting. She would walk on a set, at least what I've heard. I worked with her on Steel Magnolias, but. And she would say, I want this there and this there and this there. And I'm never like that. But if I'm standing out in the middle of the. The sun. You know what I mean? And I'm like, could I have an opal? Could we put like an opal above us? And I learned all that from you, you know, because even though the sun is there, you can still put a screen on top of something to filter the light.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I just, I got a couple Lines that I will say, since Janine didn't do her usual. This one is I love this. Which Joel says. This is supposed. He's talking about the tent. Maggie starts to put up a tent, right?

[C]

It.

[B]

She's such a Will. Joe's such a wimp. You know, it's so funny. He's such a nerd. Like, I mean, he's so neurotic and. And he's instantly, you know, in fear reflex. But she's putting up the tent, and he says, this is supposed to protect us from the elements. This. This might protect us from one element.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is great. And also to a. This is my favorite one. To a bear. This is gift wrapping.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. You guys had it good. Because you had great writers, too, right? To have good actors and good. And good writers that really. Well. The show had everything. Let's face it. I mean, what didn't it have?

[A]

Well, we. We did have great storytelling. If it's not on the page, it's not on the stage, so to speak. Right. But, Frank, you're so modest. Let's talk about. We'd like to talk about the episode as well, but let's talk about the episode where you won the Emmy, which was Sicily, and the idiosyncrasies and the things you did in that particular episode. That was a very challenging episode. I have a story about that, but we won't tell it now.

[C]

You know, when you have something different, in which all the locations, the sets, when you have something you can do differently, it's sort of inspiring. So you go there and you do better work. I mean, not better, but you go further. Okay, so there's not. At the heart, I always say, well, you can light a cathedral, and everyone goes, wow. But light a kitchen, make someone say, that looks good, and then you're good. But I thought that Sicily had so many beautiful sets. We had the usual great story and acting, but it was actually exciting to do something different. And I would say. And same with all those little sets like the. The caveman scene. And in the show that I directed, there was a. I worked with Woody to build a graveyard with Maurice, and they were all different. It wakes you up. It shakes you up. And the important thing, I think, in a series is to try to do that even with the same sets you're always in. That's the challenge.

[A]

So, Frank, I talk about the scene with the bear that falls in love with Maggie. The bear falls in love with Maggie, and he comes down and dances with her to that classical music. And you had to light the cave. I remember that was beautiful as well. And then they played it to opera music. I mean, that was what was like, you know, there's the bear dancing with me and that. You know what I think, Frank? We did that at like 2:00am do you remember the 2:00am Things we did? And that was a beautiful moment there that you had in that cave. And having to light that.

[C]

Yeah, Again, it was a different set. It wasn't the brick. To try to make the brick look a little different change the time of day and all that, that's a great challenge. But going into a cave, you know, I think it's a little easier, let me put it that way, to make something that's already different. The set is different. So it makes it a little easier to push it further. Like I said, it's harder to do it on the usual sets. Like Joel, where Joel lived, his cabin, certain places. How about burning down the house? You know, all those type of sets that were a little different sort of wake you up and then you come back and I'll tell you, with Sicily, you. What happens is all the other scenes are better because you're inspired by doing something a little different. And there's a scene, I guess, Rob you in Sicily at the end when you're alone and the camera moves around you. It's a beautiful, poignant moment where you're in the brick.

[B]

Yeah, it's a great. It's a great moment.

[C]

And the chairs are up and the emotion. I got chills just now. I think that looked better because it was a different moment. So we're always trying to find those things and we don't ever want to phone anything in. And that's one of the biggest things, too. To go back to the cinematographer director is a lot of directors need to get it done. It means a job where I'm going to get hired. Again, I know it's about money and that, and I think it's a little bit about. My job is to say, let's slow down. We'll borrow from Peter to pay Paul. But this is an A scene. Let's spend a little bit more time on this. Let the actors do their thing. And then if we do something in a Warner or do a C scene and it's just for exposition we're not losing the scenes that are the most important. So, you know, in Sicily, that last scene with you, Rob, is to me, one of my favorites. And it's in the brick, right?

[B]

Yeah, it's a great shot.

[A]

You just said something Frank, that is interesting to me about. It's harder to light a regular interior type of show. You want to talk about lighting all those interiors with Shelley and Cindy and John Cullum and those type of things. Her bedroom. Let's just talk about their bedroom.

[C]

Yeah. I think it's a matter of what can we do that gives it that we haven't done before, that strengthens the scene, not just to be different, but to make it a little bit better. So I was looking. It's funny you mentioned that, because I was looking at that and I said, wow, okay, I'm a little harder light on Holling, a little softer on Shelley. And that's good. You know, at that point, sometimes if everything is the same, it becomes boring because it's about contrast. You know what I mean? In life, you know, you get a massage, someone does it and they don't change it. Up you go, wait a second. I mean, it's starting to hurt. Give me a Change up the pace, change up the look, the feeling. So in those scenes that a lot of times, because of the schedule so crazy, you sometimes the worst thing is going into default just because it's easier and you got to get it done. So that's sort of a painful thing for a cinematographer, just as it would be, I'm sure, for any of the artists.

[B]

Oh, it's the worst feeling. It's just such a. It's such a. And it's such a reality of filmmaking, you know, I mean, the way I describe directing episodic TV is I get there at seven in the morning and someone comes up to me and taps their watch and says, you're behind schedule and you're never gonna make your day. And all day long they sit in the corner and I look over and they got their. Pointing to their watch and they're saying, you're never gonna make your day. And at 2 o', clock, I've only shot one scene and I've got four more to go. And it's no way I could shoot five scenes in five hours. But yet I've never not made a day, you know, and at the end of the day, they say, you made your day go home and you come back the next day and it starts all over again.

[C]

It's like on any show I've ever done, I always say I can feel. I feel like someone's behind my head pushing me, and I. I gotta go faster or a whip snap or something. So you always have to deal with. With the quality again because of the acting and the Story. I sort of got a break where maybe where I failed a little bit in my photography because we rolled with it.

[B]

Frank, do you remember were we mainly a one camera show? We had a second camera and they bump up the second to shoot sometimes, but we weren't rolling two cameras all the time, right?

[C]

No, no. Imagine if we did.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I don't know. Yeah, it's a. One of the greatest shows ever on tv. So what would it have, you know, I don't know what it would have done. Maybe Janine would have got her close.

[B]

Up, you know, but you wouldn't be able to light it as well. Maybe two, you know, that's. You can focus on one.

[C]

Oh, one. One camera. I haven't done one camera in 25 years. Easy. Maybe more.

[B]

I know, that's why I can't remember. Cause I don't think I've been on a set where you don't have two cameras. But there's something great about that, that style, you know, it's a luxury.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I'll just say after you left, Frank, they were pushing for these time constraints on the amount of hours that we could spend on the show. Whereas when you were there, you pushed the envelope a little bit, made sure it still lit beautifully and went the extra mile. And it was reward, you know, with great artistry. And when you left, it was very. The cinematography became dark and black and I was in like a laundry room and it was all about just shutting the day down in 12 hours instead of. And so the shots really, I think, became very mundane. So these, these couple of years when you were there were kind of very poetic, as you said earlier.

[C]

Well, I'm guessing that the cinematographer after me said, I want to do something different.

[B]

Absolutely. Gordon Lonsdale, he came in and he did do something different. I disagree with Janine that, that it didn't look good. I thought it looked really good. It was different, you know, and. And each of you had your own distinct style, which, which. And again, it's also. I probably refreshing for an audience, if you're going to stick with a show for five years, to get a little kind of change up, you know, aesthetically.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But the thing is, the show needed its consistency anyway. We differ on that, but we can deal with that when we get to season five and six. But is there anything else you want to talk about for Oil OI Wilderness? Any other memories you have or. Rob?

[C]

I just remember when I see those locations, it was magnificent. Seattle was epic. I know it was a drought. So for two Years, we didn't get that much rain. And they were the most beautiful, sunny, gorgeous exteriors. I mean, breathtaking, fresh air. And when I see that, when I saw wilderness, I went, yes, that was such a trip to be in the country. Like, that shooting. It was magnificent. So I, you know, it was funny, though. One time. This is a little offbeat story. One time we were shooting all day. We were rushing. We were rushing, so there was no bathroom around. So I ran away from the group and to pee. I'm there, and all of a sudden I look up and I go, oh, my God, look where we are. I hadn't seen it all day because I was so focused on the work. That.

[B]

Right. Amazing.

[C]

So sometimes it's really great for us to stop and to take that stuff in. It really strengthens us as artists and as people to embrace where we are. And that's why I still remember that day on the street with Rob and Josh, and we said, doesn't get better than this.

[B]

Yeah, it was a lot of beauty, for sure. Well, Frank, it's been so great to reminisce with you, and I hope we can get you back when we get to the Sicily episode. That'd be fun.

[C]

Anything with Northern Exposure. I'm in love with that show. And I'm watching my girlfriend now. I'm trying to show her the shows. I try to get my kids to see it. It's the most lovable, incredible, creative, poetic, hilarious. It's got everything. So, I don't know. I'm really the biggest fan of this. I've never been near a show, a series that kept that up for so long.

[B]

Well, thanks for coming and hanging and sharing your enthusiasm. And we have. We have a lot of good memories.

[C]

Yes, My joy. That's for sure. Guys.

[A]

It was like a little time capsule, wasn't it? It was a time capsule of a very special, special time in our lives. And we thank all the. All of you who are listening, by the way, for supporting the show, for just cheering us along, for making this possible, your support, really important to not only the longevity of this show, but just to inspire us. So we thank you for all of your comments and hit that subscribe button. We're on YouTube. We're also on regular podcasts, wherever you'd want to hear them. And I'm just so thrilled that I have this opportunity to sit next to Rob Morrow, where we spent five or six beautiful years together, and Frank Prinzen, who is a dear, special person in my life. And so thank you all for listening today. We'll see you next week. And for now, we are signing out with o' Connell and Fleischman.

[B]

Actually, I think it should be Fleischmann o'.

[A]

Connell. In your dreams, Fleischman. Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.