
Rob Morrow and Janine Turner are joined by Northern Exposure art director Ken Berg this week!
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Rob
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Ken Berg
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Janine Turner
Not a rolled quesadilla anymore.
Rob
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Ken Berg
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Rob
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Janine Turner
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Rob
This episode is brought to you by Fox 1. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with 3 days free. Build your own multi view, choose up to three streams and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights and instant replays. The FIFA World cup streaming live on Fox One offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. Hello, welcome back to Northern Disclosure where Janine Turner, my lovely co host and I go and reminisce about all things Northern Exposure. We, we, we've been following each episode. We are about episode 40, I don't know, 43, four or five, something like that. And love having you here. We love, we love the comments we get from you. If you like the show, please subscribe. Let people know. Janine and I have become aware that there's a lot of people around the world that are fans of the show that don't know about the podcast. So, so let them know. And, and thanks for tuning in. Janine, how you doing?
Janine Turner
I'm fine, thank you. How are you?
Rob
Good. Yeah? What's new?
Janine Turner
Oh, just same old, same old. Taking care of my mom, working the ranch. I think my cow is potentially giving birth so I'm gonna have to go put on my overalls and go se after this and working on different projects and this. I had a great time watching the show this morning. I had to rewind it a few times because you know at the end they quote Robert Frost who's one of my all time favorite poets.
Rob
I love this episode. So this episode is called Crime and punishment season four, episode 10. And I just felt it was really special about the things it explored. You know, first of all, Crime and
Janine Turner
Punishment is my all time favorite book by Dostoevsky. Secondly, I love the fact that circuit courts, when our supreme court started, they had to ride on horseback to the different colonies and it was called a circuit court. They didn't just meet. And the Supreme Court originally was in the Senate Building in the lobby, but they went to the different colonies to judge. So this is very Americana, the way our country started. And that's one of the things I love about Northern Exposure. It's just sort of iconically pioneer days and American Declaration of Independence. Pens and Constitution at work. And I like that circuit judge coming. And then of course, who wrote this, because the philosophy was also terrific. I saw that Rob Thompson directed it.
Rob
Did you catch Jeff Melvoin?
Janine Turner
Of course, yes. Because it was he and Andy and Diane, you know, incredibly philosophical.
Rob
It's funny, you know, Jeff's son is running. He's a. I think he's a councilman in California and he's running again. We just voted for him this past week.
Janine Turner
Fabulous. There you go. That makes sense. Well, my daughter's a lawyer. I mean, it kind of makes sense. Our kids take all of these because there's elements about the show which is so multi tiered and I think that's what makes the show special. But the element of nature and nurture, which was very. Locke, John Locke. Nature and nurture, which develops the human being. It was great to go into Chris in the Morning, into his psyche.
Rob
Wasn't it so fascinating? I mean, it just such, you know, what is identity is the. Ultimately the question of the show. And it's such a. Such a Northern Exposure conceit that, you know, that the defense that Mike Monroe, Tony Edwards defense of Chris Stevens is that he, even though he had done this crime years ago, he is a different person now. And he can't be tried on that because he's a different person. It's a fascinating idea. Let me read the synopsis here for those in the audience who like to hear it. Chris's half brother Bernard arrives in town, but so too does a state trooper in town to arrest Chris for skipping parole in his West Virginia home. As the judge arrives, Chris plans on pleading guilty. But Mike Monroe, Tony Edwards, who's hired by Maurice on account of him not wanting to lose the KBHR dj, argues that Chris Stevens who left West Virginia is not the same Chris Stevens who currently lives in Alaska despite photographic and fingerprint evidence to the contrary. Mike plows ahead, finding that the judge, if not sympathetic, is at least prepared to listen. Setting up a great. I just love this episode. It's a small episode. It's not a big grand. It's only one storyline, but. But it's, it's. It's fascinating ideas. Getting floated there. Very, very highbrow thoughts, you know.
Janine Turner
Well, absolutely, yeah. Which we were discussing, which was it's the philosophical bent of the show mixed in the judicial system of checks and balances of our United States Constitution. And it was interesting to hear that she could make that judgment. She could. She could construe her judgment in such a way that he could be free and potentially free forever if no one shows up, you know, maybe in three years no one will show up to do this again, which I think is what she was rooting for.
Rob
And I love, she says, because ultimately it's because of his Christmas.
Janine Turner
Oh, yeah, right.
Rob
So this was, as we said it was. It was written by the great Jeff Melvo. It was directed by Rob Thompson. Judge Percy is played by Anne Haney. We got Tony Edwards, we got. We got Richard Cummings. So a lot of great characters. So I. How about we. We move on to our guest?
Janine Turner
We have a wonderful guest, ladies and gentlemen. Drum roll, please. And I'm gonna pull up his bio. Here it is just again, we say this every episode, but a real delight to see people 30, 35 years later, whatever the math is. Our guest today is our art director, Ken Berg. He and Woody worked hand in hand to create all the amazing sets and the. The trebuchets and whatever it may be that the flinging of the piano, the flinging of the cow, all these things, they worked hand in hand to do this. So we're very excited to have him with us today. Isn't this amazing? I'll tell you a little bit about his bio, which he sent to me. After Northern Exposure, he moved to Cape Town, South Africa, opened a scene shop, worked on Lord of War with Nic Cage, 10,000 BC and numerous other films and television shows over the next 16 years. And now he is living back in Oregon, the Pacific Northwest. Hello, Ken Berg.
Ken Berg
Hey. Hi, Jeanine.
Rob
Ken, it's great to see your face. I have such nice memories of you always doing. You were all over that set. I mean, you know, you guys, we talk a lot about the art department being, you know, the. So crucial to everything that is Northern Exposure. And you guys were just extraordinary. I mean, that department led by the great Woody Crocker, and you really did amazing work.
Ken Berg
And it was such a small crew, too.
Rob
Yeah. How many?
Ken Berg
At the most, Eight, Maybe eight Carpenters.
Rob
People don't realize is like, you know, you have to, you know, a lot of the sets were standing, so they'd have to be dressed and things like that, but sets have to be built like Mike Monroe's. Geodesic dome have to be built and twice. Twice the inside, the interior and the exterior. And then, and then you have to prep one. While one show is being shot, you. You guys are prepping the next show. So it's a. It's a. Never ending, you know. Did you. Must have worked a lot of weekends. I'll bet.
Ken Berg
Wasn't too bad. I mean, you know, after the. After the second season, we were. We would. We were down to five day weeks.
Rob
Oh, yeah, that's good.
Ken Berg
You know, we were just that good. You know,
Rob
you were that good.
Ken Berg
But this, this, this episode that we've just watched, that was a real quiet one for us. So we, you know, every now and again we would get time to, you know, because every episode had a special, special piece, you know, which was going to take longer than two weeks, you know, so we could get ahead a little bit.
Rob
What was that? That kind of sculpture water wheel in the river that we came upon. There was some kind of wheel that was going around in the river and it was lifted. It almost looked like it was gold mining or something. Did you catch it?
Janine Turner
Well, it was like a circular.
Rob
Yeah, it was beautiful.
Ken Berg
I mean, I can't remember that.
Rob
Well, I noticed, by the way, also the geodome. I don't. It might be the first time we saw the exterior at night. And it was just beautiful tableau. I mean, it just looks so pretty.
Ken Berg
That was a. Yeah, that was a great build. Yeah.
Janine Turner
So when you. So when you said you built the. The, the dome twice, you meant the interior and the exterior and. Help me remember, Ken, because I know when we walked in, the brick was always to the left. And then I think Chris in the morning was to the right. Where was the dome in the set? Because I'm having a hard time remembering the interior dome.
Ken Berg
I think it was in the other stage next to our swing set. Stage.
Janine Turner
I think you remember that, Rob.
Rob
Yes, I do. The swing stage was where my set was, Janine. It was right next door. It was where they have lunch and everything. It was where Joel's office was and Ruth Ann's store. So, Ken, how did you come to be working with Woody?
Ken Berg
Well, the very first production designer for episode one for the pilot was Phil Peters.
Rob
Oh, my God. I forgot that.
Ken Berg
Yeah. And Woody was the set decorator.
Rob
That's right. I totally forgot that.
Wil Wheaton
Wow.
Ken Berg
And I knew Phil. I'd done a couple of projects with him, and then he left after the pilot and Woody took over.
Rob
Now, Woody passed away. When did Woody pass away?
Ken Berg
Oh, a few Years ago now. Yeah.
Janine Turner
Talk to us about what an art director does on a set. For those listening. I think it's really interesting for people to understand the difference between, say, the production designer and the art director. And props.
Ken Berg
Yeah. Well, the production designer, essentially the production designer will come up with the look after consulting with directors and producers and so on. And it's up to the art director, really, to sort of see this through and make it happen, you know, to organize that the stuff gets built and presented on time and on budget. Right.
Janine Turner
If we're looking at shelves, so to speak, the background, things that are placed on the wall, things that are put in shelves, who does that?
Ken Berg
That'll be the set decorator. And this, you know, the set decorator has a certain amount of freedom to do that. And the art director is just gonna really. Just make sure it's all looking good and all looking right. Everybody's happy.
Rob
Well, I'm just curious, like, what. When you think about the show, you know, I thought, you know, I always say that it was the cinematizing of television because it was the first time that landscapes were charact. And, you know, the town was such a character in this show. Do you ever have any memories about. Woody's basic approach to aesthetics was.
Ken Berg
Gosh, I mean, we understood. We understood right from the get go what this was about. And we just managed to maintain that. That look all the way through, you know, how a building would look after, you know, when you take Holling still, for instance, the exteriors. What are the exteriors? You know, it had been around. It had been this ramshackle old shack and never got fixed up, you know, and you just have to, you know, take that and run with it and make it look the part.
Rob
Have you watched any of the episodes since the shows stopped airing?
Ken Berg
Oh, yeah, yeah, I have the set, you know, CDs, but I don't have a DV player anymore.
Janine Turner
But it's on Amazon. It's on Prime Video.
Ken Berg
Yeah, yeah.
Rob
Jeanine, what jumped out about this episode that really got you that you loved?
Janine Turner
Well, you know, I always love the town halls. We talk about that a lot. I thought it was even funny at the beginning, defining that the woman was going to be difficult, that. Oh, it's a female judge, you know.
Rob
Right, right. That was funny. You're right.
Janine Turner
Female judges go, oh, oh, bad deal. And. And so I think that that's always a consideration when. When people are bringing forth their cases, like, who is the judge going to be? And then the whole ep, the whole. When you ask Me? If What. What was your question? Robin Fleisch and FL Ask o', Connell, are women nicer than men? And then I had that whole, you know. Oh, I see. So it was a typical sort of Maggie o' Connell reaction and leaving you and Darren stranded.
Rob
And then Shelley has that great. It's like, she's so funny. Shelly has such funny lines. Like I say to her, I think I say something like, I hate to minimize your experience, but I hardly think a beauty contest and a court of law are the same thing. And she says, yeah, maybe not, but they're definitely the same.
Janine Turner
So true. And I love. She has another one. I mean, my mother goes to sleep watching these shows, so I hear bits and pieces. She has another beauty pageant analogy, and they're always hilarious. But even in this show, a woman. A man might let something slip, you know, that you tried to go into a bikini that was too tight or whatever, but a woman is gonna make sure that. So women are in a position where they have to sometimes work a little harder. And women judge women very fiercely, actually, so. But actually, as it so happened, I think that the female judge was very fair. Would we not say no?
Rob
She was great. That was Anne Haney who played Judge Percy. And I thought that was, you know, it was a nice balance. She wasn't just one thing or the other. She was trying to really understand.
Ken Berg
Great casting.
Rob
Great casting. But to be open to true justice, you know, seemed an interesting conceit.
Janine Turner
We didn't see much from Symansky. It's interesting. She's always so hilarious.
Rob
Yeah, there was. She was kind of toned down, I guess.
Janine Turner
Yeah. She just sort of walked in and. And. But. And then it was also the whole dialogue, I think, between Barry Corbin and. What's his name, you know, Chris's brother.
Rob
Bernard.
Janine Turner
Yes, between Bernard and Maurice. I thought that. That. That conversation was quintessential. We say that a lot. But it's quintessential Northern Exposure to be able to tackle head on whether he was a bigot.
Rob
You're right. That was amazing. I love that conversation. It was such an. You didn't expect it. It kind of like, it. It seemed like it was just gonna be this little slight thing, and then they get into some, you know, heavy stuff.
Janine Turner
They do. They would. Northern Exposure was never afraid to delve into the depth of those things and to hit it head on well.
Rob
Cause it was done through character. Right. It wasn't just. It wasn't like, about beating something. It was done. Their characters were revealed by the. By their. The way they saw the world.
Janine Turner
Well, they were able to reason and have a discussion about it, not be judgmental. I mean, it's that non judgmental, you know, university. And I always talk about. Instead of going, oh, my hair's on fire, you just said what they said. Yeah, I kind of think you're this. But you know what? I've seen that this actually happens with white cultures. And so they're not the only ones who ever do this. And I kind of see da, da, da, da, da, da. And then they move on. And it's just a beautiful way. If only in our country we could get back to that. Not just like, okay, let's reason through this. I thought that that was really a fascinating conversation.
Rob
I agree, I agree. And you know, the other thing I want to point out, speaking of art direction, is that there's a movie within the movie. There's a Super 8 film that was shot of Chris as a young man when he was with the Stevens gang. Do you remember that?
Janine Turner
I thought that was done really well. And revealing, showing people, you know, my mother said to me once I was upset about something with a friend of mine at school and she goes, she said, you just don't know what their home life is like. You don't know how raised. And that changes everything. And of course, you know, not that we were the epitome of perfection in
Rob
my household at all.
Janine Turner
So it, it's revealing. And so to be able to see what he was like as a, what his life was like as a young child, I did think that was kind of done close ups and very. It had kind of a memory aspect.
Rob
Well, it was shot on Super 8. It was shot like a, like a, like a, you know, an old, old film, you know, and it's so funny that, that Chris becomes. I didn't realize his name was Chris Danforth Stevens. Did you ever catch that before?
Janine Turner
Never. I didn't catch it.
Rob
That seems like a new little bit of trivia there. Chris Danforth Stevens. Yeah, that he was, you know, grew up as a part of a, you know, a gang of thieves and that, that his part of his thing was stealing. So seeing who he was and, and watching that, that existence, you know, it had a kind of Sundance, Butch Cassidy, Sundance vibe to it, which I thought was really, really interesting.
Janine Turner
I think Chris is the wonderful example about how a person can change and be inspired, redemption, turning their lives around.
Rob
Absolutely right. Because he came from that. And then he's so, you know, his character is just. Again, I can never, I never get over how impressed I am with the character. And again, John's performance grows on me every time I watch it now. But that kind of person that can take this existence, and he does it in such an unpretentious way. You know, he's not, like, trying to show how intellectual he is or philosophical he is. He's just naturally curious about life and existence. And his character has led him to this. To this place. And he's so. You know, he's so Zen about it. Like, he's so. Okay, well, if. If. If the universe says, I'm going back to the joint, I'm going back to the joint.
Janine Turner
He stands up and claps. At the end when he. When he's, you know, gonna go, he's like, yes. He's like, sit down. But. But I also like the way everybody. Ken, it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts. The way everybody testified. All the characters testified about how Chris had affected their lives.
Rob
I love your testify. You. You have a great. You were really great. That whole little speech you give is just really. Just beautiful, you know, I mean, it just was a really little beautiful moment.
Janine Turner
Thank you. Yeah. Well, it was a typical fantastic vocabulary and dialogue of the script as well. It was. I was thinking about memorizing all those lines and then saying it in such a way that it's as if it's coming from a personal memory of hers when her house burned down. But also, I did love the cinematography on that. The way they pushed in and the camera was here and here and the way it moved in. There's so much that goes into bringing a story to life. It's. It's just. I mean, Rob, you've directed. Ken, you've worked on so many other projects. I've. I've done other. But just trying to piece something together and all the different elements and details, the collaboration that brings it together. And, Ken, talk. Talk to us a little bit about. Do you have a favorite set, a favorite experience of Produ, you know, art director on. On the show, or a particular challenge? That was the most difficult.
Ken Berg
Well, let's see. The most difficult, which I think was the trebuchet.
Rob
Yeah, of course.
Ken Berg
Of which I had very little to do with it later on because I went through this whole surgery thing. I don't know if you remember, but I was out of action for a couple of weeks because of a gallbladder.
Janine Turner
Oh, I had the same thing. I'd lost my gallbladder on the set, too.
Ken Berg
But, you know, the beginning of that was fascinating. They heard about it in A story in the Wall Street Journal, I think. And then we got hold of the guy that built the thing in England and got him to come over. He spent maybe an hour with us. No drawings, just some little scribbles. And then he went off to visit his sister in Canada or something. We just built this thing.
Rob
Wait, so he just left you a basic thing and then you had to figure it out? No, we're talking about the trebuchet, everyone. Which is from a couple iconic episodes where they built a catapult. Burning down the house was one of the episodes where they fling Maggie's charred piano through this space. But it was a real kind of engineering feat.
Ken Berg
Yeah, the team was great. And we used locals from Rosslyn, welders and lumberjacks because we cut all the trees down on the property that we shot this thing on.
Rob
Any idea where that ended up?
Ken Berg
Well, I think it ended up on John Wayne's property because we were storing it there. And I think it just disintegrated over the years.
Janine Turner
What a shame. It should have been in the Smithsonian.
Rob
You're right. I should have saved that. I figure Corbett would have stolen it
Ken Berg
like his moose heads. Right?
Rob
Exactly. You know, by the way, his set, I thought if. I don't know if you got to. When you watched it today, if you caught it, that I thought looked so great. You know, the. His. His camper.
Ken Berg
Oh, the trailer.
Rob
Yeah, the trailer. It just looks so. It just was beautiful. Really beautiful. That I can't give enough. I mean, Woody was super talented. Don't you agree?
Ken Berg
Oh, yeah, yeah. He had. He had some good ideas. You know, really good ideas.
Janine Turner
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Rob
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Janine Turner
The Cambria hotel's got it all. A rooftop bar. Have a ball.
Rob
Cocktails up here. Feel just right. Ms. Cambria.
Ken Berg
Amazing.
Rob
All right.
Janine Turner
Bring a date, your teen or even your mom.
Rob
Book direct@ChoiceHotels.com See you on the roof.
Janine Turner
Do you have any behind the scenes stories of maybe a nightmare situation of trying to get something ready on time or something's not right and you have to change it?
Ken Berg
Not really. I think we had, I think it was just because of this brilliant crew that I had, you know, the carpenters, the scenic artists, we just managed to get everything done on time. You know, there was no, no nightmare series that I can think of.
Janine Turner
Was it a right to work state at the time or was it.
Rob
Yes, it was. It is. It was a right to work state.
Janine Turner
Yeah, well, Vicki, Vicki is telling me he was our guest, you know, whatever, a couple of shows ago that, that it's now not a right to work state. And I said, but was it then?
Rob
Yeah, it was. Definitely was. That's why we went there. Yeah, because they were able to make it so much cheaper than anywhere else.
Janine Turner
Right. Well, wasn't it partially location too? I mean they couldn't find that location in Los Angeles.
Rob
No. Well, they look, it was between Denver and Seattle. And yeah, they wanted to definitely be on location. But the real motivation was money.
Ken Berg
Sure.
Rob
They made that show was so that first few seasons was made for so little money.
Janine Turner
Well, that's because the scenery could just emerge in three dimension. It just could come out and be so alive. Wherever we went, wherever you put the camera, it was beautiful.
Ken Berg
Yeah, the locations were perfect. Locations were just gorgeous, every one of them. When I Think of towards the end, the Manish village.
Rob
Was that the one on the banks, the one that I end up at?
Ken Berg
Yeah, yeah. When you canoe in, it was beautiful. Yeah, amazing. And your cabin alongside the lake.
Rob
Yeah.
Janine Turner
What is your memory of building it? Just for funsies. I mean, what is your memory of building it?
Ken Berg
Well, I set a couple of guys there on the edge of the lake and they put this thing together with basically stick framing and half logs. And we built the whole thing. Yeah. Exterior.
Rob
Right. Because I remember we had issues getting. Getting using the land and like that. That's why you had to stop using it at a certain point.
Ken Berg
Now, I was going to say, you know, you're talking about a nightmare situation. And we were talking about the trebuchet. We. The one episode we flung a coffin.
Rob
That's right. That was the second time we used the trebuchet.
Ken Berg
Second time we used it, we flung a coffin and somebody's idea was to fill the coffin with foam so it would float for a little bit longer after it was flung into the lake. And we flung it and the lid cracked open and there was all these foam bits of foam floating in the water. And we had to spend, I don't know, we got about three boats out with fishing nets scooping up all the foam. And that took days, absolute days. It was a real nightmare.
Janine Turner
This is when Chris friend comes to town and he's dead and he can't figure out what to do with him, so he decides to fling him and he flings his friend who had died, who was shipped. He was shipped to him dead, which I don't do. They do that anymore. But then he flung them. Flung it into the river. And so how fascinating that it was filled with foam. And then it went all into the river and you had. Because that would be very bad for the fish and whatnot, that you had to go out there for three days and scoop it up. That's really interesting.
Ken Berg
Yeah, it was a nightmare.
Janine Turner
Were you out on the boat? Did you go out in the boat, Ken?
Ken Berg
No, no. Didn't need to. No. You, you and you jump in the boat, go scoop up Bo.
Janine Turner
Wonder who that was. Oh, my goodness. That's really, really interesting.
Ken Berg
No, and there were other, other situations where, you know, we were shooting the woolly mammoth in the ground. They discover. Discover the woolly mammoth and supposed to be covered in ice and snow and everything. Well, it was rather warm at that point in time. And no snow. No snow. So we had to sit, go and get snow from the mountain in these trucks.
Rob
Oh, Right.
Ken Berg
I vaguely remember this, but it was down in the ravine, so we had to create slides so we could slide all this ice down. Ice and snow down into the ravine to cover the mammoth that.
Janine Turner
You know how expensive that is, living on a ranch? Just try to get a. To try to get a truck of gravel, you know, is thousands of dollars. I mean, that's expensive to get big trucks.
Ken Berg
Trucks.
Janine Turner
How did the snow not melt in the trucks on the way back down?
Ken Berg
Well, you know, they filled the truck, and maybe we got half a truck by the time it got to the location.
Janine Turner
Yeah. And then so. And I've been on locations, too, where on top of sand mines and whatnot. And you have to build certain kinds of roads to get there. So the. What? Tell me. So the truck couldn't get down to the ravine? Remember, Rob, it was on the ocean. That was on the river down there. So what kind of slide did they build?
Ken Berg
Well, we built. We built a. You know, we just built a cardboard tube, basically. You know, the cardboard tubes, they are used to cast columns, concrete columns. We took those and cut them in half and created this slide.
Janine Turner
Were you on set where they're like, oh, my gosh, it's in a ravine and we can't. We can't get the snow out of the trucks and we have to build. Or did, you know, ahead of time? And were you the one thinking of all that, that building the cardboard slides?
Ken Berg
Sure. It's organized it fast and how.
Janine Turner
Interesting. We had to shoot it relatively fast then, too, which would also. That brings in the first assistant director has to get the cast there and the crew there and get everybody there right there on time and make hair and makeup and all that so that it. It doesn't melt before. Interesting. Did you know that, Rob, did you know that was done in when it was hot?
Rob
No, but I have vague memories of them having to cart snow in, for sure.
Ken Berg
And, you know, every location, you know, was a sensitive location. You just had to be so careful, you know, everywhere we went.
Rob
Like, what do you mean?
Ken Berg
Well, the forests, the woods. We couldn't just sort of traipse in, you know, trucks and clear pathways and so on.
Rob
So the company respected the spect of the natural environment?
Ken Berg
Yeah, absolutely.
Janine Turner
I had a house in Seattle, and there were all these trees in the back, and they were absolutely gorgeous. And they told me that these little tiny trees were called widowmakers because they could fall down and get you. You had to trim some of those trees out. And I wasn't there when they did it. And when I got home, they had taken so many of my trees from my backyard and I, I was horrified. I was like, oh my gosh, what did they just do to my backyard? So to this day, I have my ranch. I'm a complete tree hugger, you know what I mean? It's like I never want to cut down a tree. So it' interesting that the man on the, the landowner lets you cut those trees down. That's, that's kind of a big deal, actually. So how does that happen? You call the landowner and say, can we cut some of your trees?
Ken Berg
Well, I, it was just arranged through possibly Vicki, you know, through the locations manager. And he didn't mind at all. It was a huge forest and we, we cut down what we needed and that was all.
Janine Turner
Do you remember at all what those people were paid? What were they paid? To rent the land for a day or two or to chop a tree down?
Ken Berg
That would have been a picky question. Yeah, but speaking of trees coming down, do you remember that big storm, that windstorm we had in Redmond where all the trees came down along the driveway in where your trailers were parked? They were coming down. We lost probably, I don't know, 10, 15 trees or so. And there was one in particular that was really moving. And we'd all moved our cars, but Meg Phillip's car was still parked right next to this one tree. So I ran in, I said, big, we need the keys to your car so we can move it because a tree is about to come down. And we moved a car and within 10 minutes the tree came down. Right where her car was.
Janine Turner
Yeah. Whose car was it?
Ken Berg
Peg, Peg Phillips.
Janine Turner
Oh, it was Peg's car. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Well, there you go. Those trees could they, they're very, very, for in Seattle, they're very, very tall pine trees, but obviously they're not strong in the huge winds. Do you remember that, Rob, driving in with a bunch of trees? I maybe vaguely remember that.
Rob
Not sure. But you know what? Something, when I think of the art department is the prep that you had to do. You'd come a day or two before we were coming every week to shoot. And the, the mural, the Roslyn mural where you had to add the apostrophe.
Ken Berg
Yes.
Rob
I always thought, you know, and then take that off.
Ken Berg
Well, I think after a while we might have just left it up there.
Rob
I, I, I thought they made you take it down. Maybe, maybe, maybe I'm wrong.
Janine Turner
I want to know what's behind you there, Ken. What's behind what's behind your right shoulder. What are. What is all that back there? Oh.
Ken Berg
Oh, this? I'm. I'm in my wife' sewing studio.
Janine Turner
Oh. Oh, fascinating. Oh, my goodness.
Ken Berg
Those are all reels of thread. Yeah.
Janine Turner
Isn't that so, did. Did she work in the industry as well as a costume?
Ken Berg
She did indeed. Yeah. Yeah, she was. She was more into costume crafts. You know, she'd build the armor, the. The fancy headdresses, that kind of thing.
Janine Turner
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Ken Berg
Well, no, no. I had lived there before for a short while, but at the. After Northern Exposure, the industry pretty much died up in Seattle. I didn't want to go to Vancouver. I didn't want to go to la. I didn't want to. Did a little bit of contracting work. My brother lives in South Africa. He's a production designer and he said, you gotta come out. There is so much work happening here, you know, so that's what we did.
Rob
And there was. Right? There still is. They make so many commercials there.
Ken Berg
A lot of commercials, a lot of film, a lot of European film, a lot of independent movies, a lot of stuff for BBC, a lot of stuff for itv. It's just, you know, with an hour or so, within an hour or so of Cape Town, you've got beautiful oceans, forests, desert.
Rob
I love Cape Town. What a great place.
Janine Turner
I want to go to Egypt. It's one of the places I want to go.
Rob
Egypt's cool, too. Egypt's amazing. You've been to Egypt, Rob Yeah, I have to. The Kir Pyramids, everything.
Janine Turner
I want to go do that.
Ken Berg
Nice.
Janine Turner
Now that I'm an archaeological fanatic. Well, that's really fascinating, Ken. Thanks for being on the show with us today. It's great, great, great seeing you again.
Ken Berg
It's great to see you guys. Yeah, yeah.
Rob
It was pleasure, Pleasure getting to connect with you for a minute.
Ken Berg
I don't know how come you're not gray? You know, I don't know.
Rob
I have weird dark hair. My friends don't believe me. I tell them, they're like, you dye it. I was like, I've never dyed my hair once, but they just refuse to believe me.
Janine Turner
And of course, I'm. I'm blonde because I change my hair color and, you know, all the time.
Ken Berg
Well, that I've noticed.
Janine Turner
Yeah, but see, look, I still pretty. Have dark hair. I think I've got some gray in there, but I've got some dark roots. My hair was really, really dark, too. My dad was Scottish, you know, in English. So they can have that rich, really rich dark hair.
Ken Berg
I just want to point out that everything we did for Northern, there was no computer rendering or anything.
Rob
Oh, wow.
Ken Berg
And a big shout out. You know, they big shout out to, look what I have here. I don't know whether you can see that.
Janine Turner
We can't read it. What does it say? Is it a file?
Ken Berg
It's a file of all. All the sets.
Rob
Oh, my God. That's a collector's item. Wow.
Ken Berg
Look at that.
Rob
Right?
Janine Turner
Look at that. Oh, my goodness.
Ken Berg
All of them. I was trying to find the geodesic form, but I thought I'd just show you that.
Janine Turner
Ken, you were there on episode one then?
Ken Berg
Oh, I was. I was pretty much the first one. The first one signed on and the last one signed off. That's amazing, because we had to turn. After Universal decided not to keep the studio, we had to put it back to a warehouse. So we had to take out all the lighting grids.
Rob
Oh, man.
Ken Berg
All the soundproofing, all the mezzanines and make it look like a warehouse again.
Janine Turner
And now it's a studio again. At least when I was there and visiting, it's a studio again.
Rob
So show that scarf that. So every year, you know, we would make. I think this was. I would make up gifts for the. The crew and the cast. I think Janine did her version of it, but this was one of my first ones. Does it say the year on there?
Ken Berg
Yeah, 91.
Rob
91. So that was a scarf that says no X. What else does it Say no X, Northern Exposure, Christmas, Hanukkah, and Rob.
Ken Berg
I, I, I still have, I still have the boxer shorts.
Rob
We did socks.
Ken Berg
Socks. I've got the cardigan.
Rob
The cardigan, yeah.
Janine Turner
Yeah, that's true. We had some cool gifts. When they picked it up for 50, they gave us a TV, remember?
Ken Berg
Oh, I didn't get one of those
Janine Turner
VHS tapes to record the 50 episodes. I mean, I don't know if any show's ever been picked up for 5, 0 before, since, during or after. I think who does that?
Rob
It was definitely unprecedented.
Janine Turner
Well, yeah, and I'm just gonna say I'm gonna stand by my idea that I mentioned Ken on another show. I think all the scripts should be put together as a collection of short stories. That would just be so cool. I may call Universal and talk to them about that. And then the other is, wouldn't that be cool to have that out there? Copies of those sets in a book? That'd be really interesting. I'm something I'd buy, I'd buy it. Okay. Well, thank you, Ken. What a fabulous, interesting life. Thanks for gracing your talent for 110 episodes of Northern Exposure. 110 episodes.
Ken Berg
It was a good ride.
Janine Turner
Yeah, it was a good run. And you, you made it special. You made it beautiful. And we appreciate that you're with us today and sharing your stories. And Rob, I'll see you next week. I'll see all of you next week. And if you're just starting our show, we have a whole blog of three, four. We're in our fourth season now. You can go back and listen to the others as well. And for now, we're signing off. And from o' Connell and Fleischman.
Rob
Actually, it should be Fleischman o'. Connor.
Ken Berg
Yeah.
Janine Turner
In your dreams, Fleischmidt.
Rob
Yeah, Ken agrees with me.
Ken Berg
I agree.
Janine Turner
Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen
Ken Berg
Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.
Wil Wheaton
Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage, and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller, Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories and I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it. So I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up where he left off. Off. And to my delight he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love pulled from the pages of Uncanny magazine, Lightspeed on Spec and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Storytime with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me.
Release Date: June 23, 2026
Hosts: Rob Morrow & Janine Turner
Guest: Ken Berg (Art Director)
In this episode, Rob Morrow and Janine Turner rewatch and discuss “Crime and Punishment” (Season 4, Episode 10) of Northern Exposure, with a deep dive into the episode’s philosophical layers, judicial themes, and signature quirkiness. Special guest Ken Berg, the show's original art director, joins for an in-depth look at the behind-the-scenes craftsmanship that brought Cicely, Alaska to life. The conversation ranges from onscreen themes of redemption and identity to the offscreen nuts and bolts of set design, memorable production challenges, and personal recollections from the cast and crew.
Theme Exploration:
Philosophical Undertones:
Episode Recap:
Set Building & Dept. Structure:
Art Department Roles Explained:
Woody Crocker's Legacy:
Maintaining Authentic Aesthetics:
Building Iconic Props & Sets:
Respect for Locations & Nature:
Robust Crew Work Ethic:
Lost Set Pieces:
Memories of Working on the Show:
Life After Northern Exposure:
On Identity and Change
On Art Direction
On Set Disasters
On Cast Bonding
For more behind-the-scenes stories and episode deep-dives, catch previous episodes of Northern Disclosure—your quirky, heartfelt rewatch companion for all things Cicely, Alaska.