S4E10: "Crime and Punishment" with Ken Berg

Summary

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Northern Disclosure – S4E10: "Crime and Punishment" with Ken Berg

Release Date: June 23, 2026
Hosts: Rob Morrow & Janine Turner
Guest: Ken Berg (Art Director)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Rob Morrow and Janine Turner rewatch and discuss “Crime and Punishment” (Season 4, Episode 10) of Northern Exposure, with a deep dive into the episode’s philosophical layers, judicial themes, and signature quirkiness. Special guest Ken Berg, the show's original art director, joins for an in-depth look at the behind-the-scenes craftsmanship that brought Cicely, Alaska to life. The conversation ranges from onscreen themes of redemption and identity to the offscreen nuts and bolts of set design, memorable production challenges, and personal recollections from the cast and crew.

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Key Topics and Discussion Points

1. Reflections on “Crime and Punishment”

• Theme Exploration:

  • Janine underlines the episode's love for classic literature and American legal history:
    • "Crime and Punishment is my all-time favorite book by Dostoevsky." – Janine (02:31)
    • She shares intrigue with the episode's focus on the U.S. circuit court tradition:
      • "When our supreme court started, they had to ride on horseback to the different colonies…that's very Americana." (02:42)

• Philosophical Undertones:

  • Rob notes the show’s exploration of identity and personal transformation:
    • "What is identity is…ultimately the question of the show." (04:03)
  • The defense that Chris is "a different person now," despite past crimes, is highlighted as a quintessential Northern Exposure conceit.

• Episode Recap:

  • Rob provides a quick summary, noting the episode centers on Chris facing judgment for a past crime, raising questions about redemption and change:
    • “Chris Stevens who left West Virginia is not the same Chris Stevens who currently lives in Alaska despite photographic and fingerprint evidence to the contrary.” (04:05)

2. Cast Dynamics and Philosophical Dialogue

• Town Hall Scenes & Gender Commentary:
  • Janine highlights humor and depth in the judge’s gender:
    • “Defining that the woman was going to be difficult, that...oh, it’s a female judge!" (13:41)
  • The hosts discuss Maggie's (Janine's character) feminist retorts and Shelley’s (Cynthia Geary) signature beauty pageant analogies:
    • “I hardly think a beauty contest and a court of law are the same thing.” – Rob quoting Fleischman (14:24)
    • “Yeah, maybe not, but they're definitely the same." – Shelley (14:45)
• Maurice and Bernard’s Conversation:
  • Janine: “...That conversation was quintessential Northern Exposure to be able to tackle head on whether he was a bigot.” (16:02)
  • Rob: “It seemed like it was just gonna be this little slight thing, and then they get into some heavy stuff.” (16:16)
• Testimonies for Chris Stevens:
  • Rob praises Janine’s emotional testimony scene:
    • "You have a great...that whole little speech you give is just really...beautiful..." (19:53)

3. Guest Segment: Ken Berg on Art Direction

• Set Building & Dept. Structure:

  • Ken: “At the most, eight, maybe eight carpenters.” (07:57)
  • Describes pressures of building extensive sets like Mike Monroe’s geodesic dome - both exterior and interior (08:01, 09:31).

• Art Department Roles Explained:

  • Ken clarifies differences between production designer, art director, and set decorator (11:16–12:11).

• Woody Crocker's Legacy:

  • Reminiscing about Woody Crocker (late production designer):
    • “That department led by the great Woody Crocker…you really did amazing work.” – Rob (07:30)

• Maintaining Authentic Aesthetics:

  • “We understood right from the get go what this was about…and we just managed to maintain that look all the way through.” – Ken (12:37)

4. Behind-the-Scenes Stories

• Building Iconic Props & Sets:

  • The trebuchet (catapult) challenge:
    • “They heard about it in a story in the Wall Street Journal…I think we got about three boats out with fishing nets scooping up all the foam. And that took days, absolute days. It was a real nightmare.” – Ken (21:05, 28:51)
  • The woolly mammoth episode’s logistical hurdles:
    • “We had to go and get snow from the mountain in these trucks...create slides so we could slide all this ice down.” – Ken (30:15)

• Respect for Locations & Nature:

  • “Every location was a sensitive location. You just had to be so careful, you know, everywhere we went.” – Ken (32:32)

• Robust Crew Work Ethic:

  • “It was such a small crew…after the second season, we were down to five day weeks.” – Ken (07:54, 08:30)

• Lost Set Pieces:

  • The trebuchet's fate:
    • “I think it ended up on John Wayne’s property...and I think it just disintegrated over the years.” – Ken (22:41)

5. Personal Reminiscence & Memorabilia

• Memories of Working on the Show:

  • Janine and Rob recall the cultural phenomenon and gifts exchanged among cast and crew (41:14).
  • Ken displays his binder of set designs:
    • “It’s a file of all…all the sets.” (39:57)
  • Annual crew gifts: “That was a scarf that says No X, Northern Exposure, Christmas, Hanukkah, and Rob.” – Rob (41:14)

• Life After Northern Exposure:

  • Ken’s post-show journey:
    • “After Northern Exposure, the industry pretty much died up in Seattle…I didn’t want to go to LA...my brother lives in South Africa...That’s what we did.” (37:34)
    • Insights into Cape Town as a filming hub with “beautiful oceans, forests, desert.” (38:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Identity and Change

  • “What is identity…ultimately the question of the show.” – Rob (04:03)
  • “Chris is the wonderful example about how a person can change and be inspired, redemption, turning their lives around.” – Janine (18:42)

• On Art Direction

  • “I just want to point out that everything we did for Northern, there was no computer rendering or anything.” – Ken (39:36)

• On Set Disasters

  • “We got about three boats out with fishing nets scooping up all the foam. And that took days, absolute days. It was a real nightmare.” – Ken (28:51)
  • “We had to go and get snow from the mountain in these trucks...create slides.” – Ken (30:15)

• On Cast Bonding

  • “I was pretty much the first one signed on and the last one signed off.” – Ken (40:24)
  • “You made it beautiful. And we appreciate that you’re with us today and sharing your stories.” – Janine (42:28)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:48] – Janine & Rob banter, opening reminiscence on the episode and their lives
• [04:03] – Discussion of the episode’s synopsis, themes of identity and redemption
• [06:27] – Ken Berg introduction and personal/art department backstory
• [09:31] – Building the geodesic dome, set logistics
• [11:16] – Ken explains art department structure and roles
• [13:41] – Janine highlights “town hall” scenes, gender humor
• [19:53] – Discussion of testimony scenes for Chris Stevens
• [21:05] – Trebuchet and production challenges anecdote
• [30:15] – Woolly mammoth and the “imported snow” incident
• [32:41] – Respecting filming locations and environmental sensitivity
• [37:34] – Ken’s move to South Africa and career after Northern Exposure
• [39:36] – Ken’s binder of set designs and show memorabilia
• [41:14] – Cast and crew gifts, reminiscing about special moments

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Episode Takeaways

• Northern Exposure’s Uniqueness:
  The deep, authentic blend of philosophy, Americana, and offbeat humor set Northern Exposure apart, engaging both heart and intellect.
• Behind the Magic:
  The show's art department, led by passionate craftspeople, brought the magic of Cicely to life under tight budgets, logistical hurdles, and a neverending need for ingenuity—with no digital shortcuts.
• Onscreen & Offscreen Community:
  The cast and crew created lifelong bonds, with mutual admiration and stories that continue to enrich the show’s legacy decades later.

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Closing Quote

• “It was a good ride.” – Ken Berg (42:27)

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For more behind-the-scenes stories and episode deep-dives, catch previous episodes of Northern Disclosure—your quirky, heartfelt rewatch companion for all things Cicely, Alaska.

Transcript

[Rob]

Introducing Taco Bell's new Jalapeno Citrus Salsa with bright citrus, real red jalapenos, guajillo chiles. Usually you add sauce to the food, but when the sauce is this good, the food is just there to get

[Ken Berg]

the sauce to your mouth. That rolled quesadilla.

[Janine Turner]

Not a rolled quesadilla anymore.

[Rob]

Now it's a sauce shovel.

[Ken Berg]

Taco Bell's Jalapeno Citrus Salsa. Get it with any item on the

[Rob]

Cantina Chicken menu while it's here. The participating U.S. taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last

[Janine Turner]

contact store for availability.

[Rob]

This episode is brought to you by Fox 1. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with 3 days free. Build your own multi view, choose up to three streams and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights and instant replays. The FIFA World cup streaming live on Fox One offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. Hello, welcome back to Northern Disclosure where Janine Turner, my lovely co host and I go and reminisce about all things Northern Exposure. We, we, we've been following each episode. We are about episode 40, I don't know, 43, four or five, something like that. And love having you here. We love, we love the comments we get from you. If you like the show, please subscribe. Let people know. Janine and I have become aware that there's a lot of people around the world that are fans of the show that don't know about the podcast. So, so let them know. And, and thanks for tuning in. Janine, how you doing?

[Janine Turner]

I'm fine, thank you. How are you?

[Rob]

Good. Yeah? What's new?

[Janine Turner]

Oh, just same old, same old. Taking care of my mom, working the ranch. I think my cow is potentially giving birth so I'm gonna have to go put on my overalls and go se after this and working on different projects and this. I had a great time watching the show this morning. I had to rewind it a few times because you know at the end they quote Robert Frost who's one of my all time favorite poets.

[Rob]

I love this episode. So this episode is called Crime and punishment season four, episode 10. And I just felt it was really special about the things it explored. You know, first of all, Crime and

[Janine Turner]

Punishment is my all time favorite book by Dostoevsky. Secondly, I love the fact that circuit courts, when our supreme court started, they had to ride on horseback to the different colonies and it was called a circuit court. They didn't just meet. And the Supreme Court originally was in the Senate Building in the lobby, but they went to the different colonies to judge. So this is very Americana, the way our country started. And that's one of the things I love about Northern Exposure. It's just sort of iconically pioneer days and American Declaration of Independence. Pens and Constitution at work. And I like that circuit judge coming. And then of course, who wrote this, because the philosophy was also terrific. I saw that Rob Thompson directed it.

[Rob]

Did you catch Jeff Melvoin?

[Janine Turner]

Of course, yes. Because it was he and Andy and Diane, you know, incredibly philosophical.

[Rob]

It's funny, you know, Jeff's son is running. He's a. I think he's a councilman in California and he's running again. We just voted for him this past week.

[Janine Turner]

Fabulous. There you go. That makes sense. Well, my daughter's a lawyer. I mean, it kind of makes sense. Our kids take all of these because there's elements about the show which is so multi tiered and I think that's what makes the show special. But the element of nature and nurture, which was very. Locke, John Locke. Nature and nurture, which develops the human being. It was great to go into Chris in the Morning, into his psyche.

[Rob]

Wasn't it so fascinating? I mean, it just such, you know, what is identity is the. Ultimately the question of the show. And it's such a. Such a Northern Exposure conceit that, you know, that the defense that Mike Monroe, Tony Edwards defense of Chris Stevens is that he, even though he had done this crime years ago, he is a different person now. And he can't be tried on that because he's a different person. It's a fascinating idea. Let me read the synopsis here for those in the audience who like to hear it. Chris's half brother Bernard arrives in town, but so too does a state trooper in town to arrest Chris for skipping parole in his West Virginia home. As the judge arrives, Chris plans on pleading guilty. But Mike Monroe, Tony Edwards, who's hired by Maurice on account of him not wanting to lose the KBHR dj, argues that Chris Stevens who left West Virginia is not the same Chris Stevens who currently lives in Alaska despite photographic and fingerprint evidence to the contrary. Mike plows ahead, finding that the judge, if not sympathetic, is at least prepared to listen. Setting up a great. I just love this episode. It's a small episode. It's not a big grand. It's only one storyline, but. But it's, it's. It's fascinating ideas. Getting floated there. Very, very highbrow thoughts, you know.

[Janine Turner]

Well, absolutely, yeah. Which we were discussing, which was it's the philosophical bent of the show mixed in the judicial system of checks and balances of our United States Constitution. And it was interesting to hear that she could make that judgment. She could. She could construe her judgment in such a way that he could be free and potentially free forever if no one shows up, you know, maybe in three years no one will show up to do this again, which I think is what she was rooting for.

[Rob]

And I love, she says, because ultimately it's because of his Christmas.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Rob]

So this was, as we said it was. It was written by the great Jeff Melvo. It was directed by Rob Thompson. Judge Percy is played by Anne Haney. We got Tony Edwards, we got. We got Richard Cummings. So a lot of great characters. So I. How about we. We move on to our guest?

[Janine Turner]

We have a wonderful guest, ladies and gentlemen. Drum roll, please. And I'm gonna pull up his bio. Here it is just again, we say this every episode, but a real delight to see people 30, 35 years later, whatever the math is. Our guest today is our art director, Ken Berg. He and Woody worked hand in hand to create all the amazing sets and the. The trebuchets and whatever it may be that the flinging of the piano, the flinging of the cow, all these things, they worked hand in hand to do this. So we're very excited to have him with us today. Isn't this amazing? I'll tell you a little bit about his bio, which he sent to me. After Northern Exposure, he moved to Cape Town, South Africa, opened a scene shop, worked on Lord of War with Nic Cage, 10,000 BC and numerous other films and television shows over the next 16 years. And now he is living back in Oregon, the Pacific Northwest. Hello, Ken Berg.

[Ken Berg]

Hey. Hi, Jeanine.

[Rob]

Ken, it's great to see your face. I have such nice memories of you always doing. You were all over that set. I mean, you know, you guys, we talk a lot about the art department being, you know, the. So crucial to everything that is Northern Exposure. And you guys were just extraordinary. I mean, that department led by the great Woody Crocker, and you really did amazing work.

[Ken Berg]

And it was such a small crew, too.

[Rob]

Yeah. How many?

[Ken Berg]

At the most, Eight, Maybe eight Carpenters.

[Rob]

People don't realize is like, you know, you have to, you know, a lot of the sets were standing, so they'd have to be dressed and things like that, but sets have to be built like Mike Monroe's. Geodesic dome have to be built and twice. Twice the inside, the interior and the exterior. And then, and then you have to prep one. While one show is being shot, you. You guys are prepping the next show. So it's a. It's a. Never ending, you know. Did you. Must have worked a lot of weekends. I'll bet.

[Ken Berg]

Wasn't too bad. I mean, you know, after the. After the second season, we were. We would. We were down to five day weeks.

[Rob]

Oh, yeah, that's good.

[Ken Berg]

You know, we were just that good. You know,

[Rob]

you were that good.

[Ken Berg]

But this, this, this episode that we've just watched, that was a real quiet one for us. So we, you know, every now and again we would get time to, you know, because every episode had a special, special piece, you know, which was going to take longer than two weeks, you know, so we could get ahead a little bit.

[Rob]

What was that? That kind of sculpture water wheel in the river that we came upon. There was some kind of wheel that was going around in the river and it was lifted. It almost looked like it was gold mining or something. Did you catch it?

[Janine Turner]

Well, it was like a circular.

[Rob]

Yeah, it was beautiful.

[Ken Berg]

I mean, I can't remember that.

[Rob]

Well, I noticed, by the way, also the geodome. I don't. It might be the first time we saw the exterior at night. And it was just beautiful tableau. I mean, it just looks so pretty.

[Ken Berg]

That was a. Yeah, that was a great build. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

So when you. So when you said you built the. The, the dome twice, you meant the interior and the exterior and. Help me remember, Ken, because I know when we walked in, the brick was always to the left. And then I think Chris in the morning was to the right. Where was the dome in the set? Because I'm having a hard time remembering the interior dome.

[Ken Berg]

I think it was in the other stage next to our swing set. Stage.

[Janine Turner]

I think you remember that, Rob.

[Rob]

Yes, I do. The swing stage was where my set was, Janine. It was right next door. It was where they have lunch and everything. It was where Joel's office was and Ruth Ann's store. So, Ken, how did you come to be working with Woody?

[Ken Berg]

Well, the very first production designer for episode one for the pilot was Phil Peters.

[Rob]

Oh, my God. I forgot that.

[Ken Berg]

Yeah. And Woody was the set decorator.

[Rob]

That's right. I totally forgot that.

[Wil Wheaton]

Wow.

[Ken Berg]

And I knew Phil. I'd done a couple of projects with him, and then he left after the pilot and Woody took over.

[Rob]

Now, Woody passed away. When did Woody pass away?

[Ken Berg]

Oh, a few Years ago now. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

Talk to us about what an art director does on a set. For those listening. I think it's really interesting for people to understand the difference between, say, the production designer and the art director. And props.

[Ken Berg]

Yeah. Well, the production designer, essentially the production designer will come up with the look after consulting with directors and producers and so on. And it's up to the art director, really, to sort of see this through and make it happen, you know, to organize that the stuff gets built and presented on time and on budget. Right.

[Janine Turner]

If we're looking at shelves, so to speak, the background, things that are placed on the wall, things that are put in shelves, who does that?

[Ken Berg]

That'll be the set decorator. And this, you know, the set decorator has a certain amount of freedom to do that. And the art director is just gonna really. Just make sure it's all looking good and all looking right. Everybody's happy.

[Rob]

Well, I'm just curious, like, what. When you think about the show, you know, I thought, you know, I always say that it was the cinematizing of television because it was the first time that landscapes were charact. And, you know, the town was such a character in this show. Do you ever have any memories about. Woody's basic approach to aesthetics was.

[Ken Berg]

Gosh, I mean, we understood. We understood right from the get go what this was about. And we just managed to maintain that. That look all the way through, you know, how a building would look after, you know, when you take Holling still, for instance, the exteriors. What are the exteriors? You know, it had been around. It had been this ramshackle old shack and never got fixed up, you know, and you just have to, you know, take that and run with it and make it look the part.

[Rob]

Have you watched any of the episodes since the shows stopped airing?

[Ken Berg]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I have the set, you know, CDs, but I don't have a DV player anymore.

[Janine Turner]

But it's on Amazon. It's on Prime Video.

[Ken Berg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

Jeanine, what jumped out about this episode that really got you that you loved?

[Janine Turner]

Well, you know, I always love the town halls. We talk about that a lot. I thought it was even funny at the beginning, defining that the woman was going to be difficult, that. Oh, it's a female judge, you know.

[Rob]

Right, right. That was funny. You're right.

[Janine Turner]

Female judges go, oh, oh, bad deal. And. And so I think that that's always a consideration when. When people are bringing forth their cases, like, who is the judge going to be? And then the whole ep, the whole. When you ask Me? If What. What was your question? Robin Fleisch and FL Ask o', Connell, are women nicer than men? And then I had that whole, you know. Oh, I see. So it was a typical sort of Maggie o' Connell reaction and leaving you and Darren stranded.

[Rob]

And then Shelley has that great. It's like, she's so funny. Shelly has such funny lines. Like I say to her, I think I say something like, I hate to minimize your experience, but I hardly think a beauty contest and a court of law are the same thing. And she says, yeah, maybe not, but they're definitely the same.

[Janine Turner]

So true. And I love. She has another one. I mean, my mother goes to sleep watching these shows, so I hear bits and pieces. She has another beauty pageant analogy, and they're always hilarious. But even in this show, a woman. A man might let something slip, you know, that you tried to go into a bikini that was too tight or whatever, but a woman is gonna make sure that. So women are in a position where they have to sometimes work a little harder. And women judge women very fiercely, actually, so. But actually, as it so happened, I think that the female judge was very fair. Would we not say no?

[Rob]

She was great. That was Anne Haney who played Judge Percy. And I thought that was, you know, it was a nice balance. She wasn't just one thing or the other. She was trying to really understand.

[Ken Berg]

Great casting.

[Rob]

Great casting. But to be open to true justice, you know, seemed an interesting conceit.

[Janine Turner]

We didn't see much from Symansky. It's interesting. She's always so hilarious.

[Rob]

Yeah, there was. She was kind of toned down, I guess.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. She just sort of walked in and. And. But. And then it was also the whole dialogue, I think, between Barry Corbin and. What's his name, you know, Chris's brother.

[Rob]

Bernard.

[Janine Turner]

Yes, between Bernard and Maurice. I thought that. That. That conversation was quintessential. We say that a lot. But it's quintessential Northern Exposure to be able to tackle head on whether he was a bigot.

[Rob]

You're right. That was amazing. I love that conversation. It was such an. You didn't expect it. It kind of like, it. It seemed like it was just gonna be this little slight thing, and then they get into some, you know, heavy stuff.

[Janine Turner]

They do. They would. Northern Exposure was never afraid to delve into the depth of those things and to hit it head on well.

[Rob]

Cause it was done through character. Right. It wasn't just. It wasn't like, about beating something. It was done. Their characters were revealed by the. By their. The way they saw the world.

[Janine Turner]

Well, they were able to reason and have a discussion about it, not be judgmental. I mean, it's that non judgmental, you know, university. And I always talk about. Instead of going, oh, my hair's on fire, you just said what they said. Yeah, I kind of think you're this. But you know what? I've seen that this actually happens with white cultures. And so they're not the only ones who ever do this. And I kind of see da, da, da, da, da, da. And then they move on. And it's just a beautiful way. If only in our country we could get back to that. Not just like, okay, let's reason through this. I thought that that was really a fascinating conversation.

[Rob]

I agree, I agree. And you know, the other thing I want to point out, speaking of art direction, is that there's a movie within the movie. There's a Super 8 film that was shot of Chris as a young man when he was with the Stevens gang. Do you remember that?

[Janine Turner]

I thought that was done really well. And revealing, showing people, you know, my mother said to me once I was upset about something with a friend of mine at school and she goes, she said, you just don't know what their home life is like. You don't know how raised. And that changes everything. And of course, you know, not that we were the epitome of perfection in

[Rob]

my household at all.

[Janine Turner]

So it, it's revealing. And so to be able to see what he was like as a, what his life was like as a young child, I did think that was kind of done close ups and very. It had kind of a memory aspect.

[Rob]

Well, it was shot on Super 8. It was shot like a, like a, like a, you know, an old, old film, you know, and it's so funny that, that Chris becomes. I didn't realize his name was Chris Danforth Stevens. Did you ever catch that before?

[Janine Turner]

Never. I didn't catch it.

[Rob]

That seems like a new little bit of trivia there. Chris Danforth Stevens. Yeah, that he was, you know, grew up as a part of a, you know, a gang of thieves and that, that his part of his thing was stealing. So seeing who he was and, and watching that, that existence, you know, it had a kind of Sundance, Butch Cassidy, Sundance vibe to it, which I thought was really, really interesting.

[Janine Turner]

I think Chris is the wonderful example about how a person can change and be inspired, redemption, turning their lives around.

[Rob]

Absolutely right. Because he came from that. And then he's so, you know, his character is just. Again, I can never, I never get over how impressed I am with the character. And again, John's performance grows on me every time I watch it now. But that kind of person that can take this existence, and he does it in such an unpretentious way. You know, he's not, like, trying to show how intellectual he is or philosophical he is. He's just naturally curious about life and existence. And his character has led him to this. To this place. And he's so. You know, he's so Zen about it. Like, he's so. Okay, well, if. If. If the universe says, I'm going back to the joint, I'm going back to the joint.

[Janine Turner]

He stands up and claps. At the end when he. When he's, you know, gonna go, he's like, yes. He's like, sit down. But. But I also like the way everybody. Ken, it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts. The way everybody testified. All the characters testified about how Chris had affected their lives.

[Rob]

I love your testify. You. You have a great. You were really great. That whole little speech you give is just really. Just beautiful, you know, I mean, it just was a really little beautiful moment.

[Janine Turner]

Thank you. Yeah. Well, it was a typical fantastic vocabulary and dialogue of the script as well. It was. I was thinking about memorizing all those lines and then saying it in such a way that it's as if it's coming from a personal memory of hers when her house burned down. But also, I did love the cinematography on that. The way they pushed in and the camera was here and here and the way it moved in. There's so much that goes into bringing a story to life. It's. It's just. I mean, Rob, you've directed. Ken, you've worked on so many other projects. I've. I've done other. But just trying to piece something together and all the different elements and details, the collaboration that brings it together. And, Ken, talk. Talk to us a little bit about. Do you have a favorite set, a favorite experience of Produ, you know, art director on. On the show, or a particular challenge? That was the most difficult.

[Ken Berg]

Well, let's see. The most difficult, which I think was the trebuchet.

[Rob]

Yeah, of course.

[Ken Berg]

Of which I had very little to do with it later on because I went through this whole surgery thing. I don't know if you remember, but I was out of action for a couple of weeks because of a gallbladder.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, I had the same thing. I'd lost my gallbladder on the set, too.

[Ken Berg]

But, you know, the beginning of that was fascinating. They heard about it in A story in the Wall Street Journal, I think. And then we got hold of the guy that built the thing in England and got him to come over. He spent maybe an hour with us. No drawings, just some little scribbles. And then he went off to visit his sister in Canada or something. We just built this thing.

[Rob]

Wait, so he just left you a basic thing and then you had to figure it out? No, we're talking about the trebuchet, everyone. Which is from a couple iconic episodes where they built a catapult. Burning down the house was one of the episodes where they fling Maggie's charred piano through this space. But it was a real kind of engineering feat.

[Ken Berg]

Yeah, the team was great. And we used locals from Rosslyn, welders and lumberjacks because we cut all the trees down on the property that we shot this thing on.

[Rob]

Any idea where that ended up?

[Ken Berg]

Well, I think it ended up on John Wayne's property because we were storing it there. And I think it just disintegrated over the years.

[Janine Turner]

What a shame. It should have been in the Smithsonian.

[Rob]

You're right. I should have saved that. I figure Corbett would have stolen it

[Ken Berg]

like his moose heads. Right?

[Rob]

Exactly. You know, by the way, his set, I thought if. I don't know if you got to. When you watched it today, if you caught it, that I thought looked so great. You know, the. His. His camper.

[Ken Berg]

Oh, the trailer.

[Rob]

Yeah, the trailer. It just looks so. It just was beautiful. Really beautiful. That I can't give enough. I mean, Woody was super talented. Don't you agree?

[Ken Berg]

Oh, yeah, yeah. He had. He had some good ideas. You know, really good ideas.

[Janine Turner]

You know that moment when you have a great idea for a project but then immediately start second guessing? Like, where do I start? What if I can't keep up with everything? What if this turns into way more work than I can handle? That hesitation is real, but often it's not the idea that's the problem. It's not having the right support system to actually bring it to life. That's why so many people turn to Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all E commerce in the United States. It gives you everything you need in one place. You can build a professional looking store with hundreds of ready to use templates that match your brand's style without needing to be a designer. And when it comes to saving time, Shopify really delivers Their built in AI tools can help write product descriptions and generate headlines so you can focus on the bigger picture. And if you ever feel stuck, Shopify's award winning 24. 7 Customer support is always there to guide you. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month [e-mail] Northern go to shopify.com Northern that's shopify.com Northern study and play come together

[Wil Wheaton]

on a Windows 11 PC.

[Janine Turner]

And for a limited time, college students

[Wil Wheaton]

get the best of both worlds.

[Rob]

Get the unreal college deal.

[Janine Turner]

Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn [e-mail] studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka Ms. CollegePC.

[Rob]

I wrote a little song to remind you. Choice hotels get you more of the experiences you value.

[Janine Turner]

The Cambria hotel's got it all. A rooftop bar. Have a ball.

[Rob]

Cocktails up here. Feel just right. Ms. Cambria.

[Ken Berg]

Amazing.

[Rob]

All right.

[Janine Turner]

Bring a date, your teen or even your mom.

[Rob]

Book [e-mail] See you on the roof.

[Janine Turner]

Do you have any behind the scenes stories of maybe a nightmare situation of trying to get something ready on time or something's not right and you have to change it?

[Ken Berg]

Not really. I think we had, I think it was just because of this brilliant crew that I had, you know, the carpenters, the scenic artists, we just managed to get everything done on time. You know, there was no, no nightmare series that I can think of.

[Janine Turner]

Was it a right to work state at the time or was it.

[Rob]

Yes, it was. It is. It was a right to work state.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, well, Vicki, Vicki is telling me he was our guest, you know, whatever, a couple of shows ago that, that it's now not a right to work state. And I said, but was it then?

[Rob]

Yeah, it was. Definitely was. That's why we went there. Yeah, because they were able to make it so much cheaper than anywhere else.

[Janine Turner]

Right. Well, wasn't it partially location too? I mean they couldn't find that location in Los Angeles.

[Rob]

No. Well, they look, it was between Denver and Seattle. And yeah, they wanted to definitely be on location. But the real motivation was money.

[Ken Berg]

Sure.

[Rob]

They made that show was so that first few seasons was made for so little money.

[Janine Turner]

Well, that's because the scenery could just emerge in three dimension. It just could come out and be so alive. Wherever we went, wherever you put the camera, it was beautiful.

[Ken Berg]

Yeah, the locations were perfect. Locations were just gorgeous, every one of them. When I Think of towards the end, the Manish village.

[Rob]

Was that the one on the banks, the one that I end up at?

[Ken Berg]

Yeah, yeah. When you canoe in, it was beautiful. Yeah, amazing. And your cabin alongside the lake.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

What is your memory of building it? Just for funsies. I mean, what is your memory of building it?

[Ken Berg]

Well, I set a couple of guys there on the edge of the lake and they put this thing together with basically stick framing and half logs. And we built the whole thing. Yeah. Exterior.

[Rob]

Right. Because I remember we had issues getting. Getting using the land and like that. That's why you had to stop using it at a certain point.

[Ken Berg]

Now, I was going to say, you know, you're talking about a nightmare situation. And we were talking about the trebuchet. We. The one episode we flung a coffin.

[Rob]

That's right. That was the second time we used the trebuchet.

[Ken Berg]

Second time we used it, we flung a coffin and somebody's idea was to fill the coffin with foam so it would float for a little bit longer after it was flung into the lake. And we flung it and the lid cracked open and there was all these foam bits of foam floating in the water. And we had to spend, I don't know, we got about three boats out with fishing nets scooping up all the foam. And that took days, absolute days. It was a real nightmare.

[Janine Turner]

This is when Chris friend comes to town and he's dead and he can't figure out what to do with him, so he decides to fling him and he flings his friend who had died, who was shipped. He was shipped to him dead, which I don't do. They do that anymore. But then he flung them. Flung it into the river. And so how fascinating that it was filled with foam. And then it went all into the river and you had. Because that would be very bad for the fish and whatnot, that you had to go out there for three days and scoop it up. That's really interesting.

[Ken Berg]

Yeah, it was a nightmare.

[Janine Turner]

Were you out on the boat? Did you go out in the boat, Ken?

[Ken Berg]

No, no. Didn't need to. No. You, you and you jump in the boat, go scoop up Bo.

[Janine Turner]

Wonder who that was. Oh, my goodness. That's really, really interesting.

[Ken Berg]

No, and there were other, other situations where, you know, we were shooting the woolly mammoth in the ground. They discover. Discover the woolly mammoth and supposed to be covered in ice and snow and everything. Well, it was rather warm at that point in time. And no snow. No snow. So we had to sit, go and get snow from the mountain in these trucks.

[Rob]

Oh, Right.

[Ken Berg]

I vaguely remember this, but it was down in the ravine, so we had to create slides so we could slide all this ice down. Ice and snow down into the ravine to cover the mammoth that.

[Janine Turner]

You know how expensive that is, living on a ranch? Just try to get a. To try to get a truck of gravel, you know, is thousands of dollars. I mean, that's expensive to get big trucks.

[Ken Berg]

Trucks.

[Janine Turner]

How did the snow not melt in the trucks on the way back down?

[Ken Berg]

Well, you know, they filled the truck, and maybe we got half a truck by the time it got to the location.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. And then so. And I've been on locations, too, where on top of sand mines and whatnot. And you have to build certain kinds of roads to get there. So the. What? Tell me. So the truck couldn't get down to the ravine? Remember, Rob, it was on the ocean. That was on the river down there. So what kind of slide did they build?

[Ken Berg]

Well, we built. We built a. You know, we just built a cardboard tube, basically. You know, the cardboard tubes, they are used to cast columns, concrete columns. We took those and cut them in half and created this slide.

[Janine Turner]

Were you on set where they're like, oh, my gosh, it's in a ravine and we can't. We can't get the snow out of the trucks and we have to build. Or did, you know, ahead of time? And were you the one thinking of all that, that building the cardboard slides?

[Ken Berg]

Sure. It's organized it fast and how.

[Janine Turner]

Interesting. We had to shoot it relatively fast then, too, which would also. That brings in the first assistant director has to get the cast there and the crew there and get everybody there right there on time and make hair and makeup and all that so that it. It doesn't melt before. Interesting. Did you know that, Rob, did you know that was done in when it was hot?

[Rob]

No, but I have vague memories of them having to cart snow in, for sure.

[Ken Berg]

And, you know, every location, you know, was a sensitive location. You just had to be so careful, you know, everywhere we went.

[Rob]

Like, what do you mean?

[Ken Berg]

Well, the forests, the woods. We couldn't just sort of traipse in, you know, trucks and clear pathways and so on.

[Rob]

So the company respected the spect of the natural environment?

[Ken Berg]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Janine Turner]

I had a house in Seattle, and there were all these trees in the back, and they were absolutely gorgeous. And they told me that these little tiny trees were called widowmakers because they could fall down and get you. You had to trim some of those trees out. And I wasn't there when they did it. And when I got home, they had taken so many of my trees from my backyard and I, I was horrified. I was like, oh my gosh, what did they just do to my backyard? So to this day, I have my ranch. I'm a complete tree hugger, you know what I mean? It's like I never want to cut down a tree. So it' interesting that the man on the, the landowner lets you cut those trees down. That's, that's kind of a big deal, actually. So how does that happen? You call the landowner and say, can we cut some of your trees?

[Ken Berg]

Well, I, it was just arranged through possibly Vicki, you know, through the locations manager. And he didn't mind at all. It was a huge forest and we, we cut down what we needed and that was all.

[Janine Turner]

Do you remember at all what those people were paid? What were they paid? To rent the land for a day or two or to chop a tree down?

[Ken Berg]

That would have been a picky question. Yeah, but speaking of trees coming down, do you remember that big storm, that windstorm we had in Redmond where all the trees came down along the driveway in where your trailers were parked? They were coming down. We lost probably, I don't know, 10, 15 trees or so. And there was one in particular that was really moving. And we'd all moved our cars, but Meg Phillip's car was still parked right next to this one tree. So I ran in, I said, big, we need the keys to your car so we can move it because a tree is about to come down. And we moved a car and within 10 minutes the tree came down. Right where her car was.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. Whose car was it?

[Ken Berg]

Peg, Peg Phillips.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, it was Peg's car. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Well, there you go. Those trees could they, they're very, very, for in Seattle, they're very, very tall pine trees, but obviously they're not strong in the huge winds. Do you remember that, Rob, driving in with a bunch of trees? I maybe vaguely remember that.

[Rob]

Not sure. But you know what? Something, when I think of the art department is the prep that you had to do. You'd come a day or two before we were coming every week to shoot. And the, the mural, the Roslyn mural where you had to add the apostrophe.

[Ken Berg]

Yes.

[Rob]

I always thought, you know, and then take that off.

[Ken Berg]

Well, I think after a while we might have just left it up there.

[Rob]

I, I, I thought they made you take it down. Maybe, maybe, maybe I'm wrong.

[Janine Turner]

I want to know what's behind you there, Ken. What's behind what's behind your right shoulder. What are. What is all that back there? Oh.

[Ken Berg]

Oh, this? I'm. I'm in my wife' sewing studio.

[Janine Turner]

Oh. Oh, fascinating. Oh, my goodness.

[Ken Berg]

Those are all reels of thread. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

Isn't that so, did. Did she work in the industry as well as a costume?

[Ken Berg]

She did indeed. Yeah. Yeah, she was. She was more into costume crafts. You know, she'd build the armor, the. The fancy headdresses, that kind of thing.

[Janine Turner]

We gather here tonight to bring women back to their rightful place. The Testaments, a new Hulu original series from the executive producers of the Handmaid's Tale. It's easier to accept a story than believe that the people around you are monsters. The battle isn't over. There comes a time when you have to take action, when you have to choose your own destiny. Never quite as a team. Watch the new Hulu Original Series series, the Testaments, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know, those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail]. like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. And you know, we have to wrap. But tell us briefly about living in South Africa and why you moved there. And are you from there?

[Ken Berg]

Well, no, no. I had lived there before for a short while, but at the. After Northern Exposure, the industry pretty much died up in Seattle. I didn't want to go to Vancouver. I didn't want to go to la. I didn't want to. Did a little bit of contracting work. My brother lives in South Africa. He's a production designer and he said, you gotta come out. There is so much work happening here, you know, so that's what we did.

[Rob]

And there was. Right? There still is. They make so many commercials there.

[Ken Berg]

A lot of commercials, a lot of film, a lot of European film, a lot of independent movies, a lot of stuff for BBC, a lot of stuff for itv. It's just, you know, with an hour or so, within an hour or so of Cape Town, you've got beautiful oceans, forests, desert.

[Rob]

I love Cape Town. What a great place.

[Janine Turner]

I want to go to Egypt. It's one of the places I want to go.

[Rob]

Egypt's cool, too. Egypt's amazing. You've been to Egypt, Rob Yeah, I have to. The Kir Pyramids, everything.

[Janine Turner]

I want to go do that.

[Ken Berg]

Nice.

[Janine Turner]

Now that I'm an archaeological fanatic. Well, that's really fascinating, Ken. Thanks for being on the show with us today. It's great, great, great seeing you again.

[Ken Berg]

It's great to see you guys. Yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

It was pleasure, Pleasure getting to connect with you for a minute.

[Ken Berg]

I don't know how come you're not gray? You know, I don't know.

[Rob]

I have weird dark hair. My friends don't believe me. I tell them, they're like, you dye it. I was like, I've never dyed my hair once, but they just refuse to believe me.

[Janine Turner]

And of course, I'm. I'm blonde because I change my hair color and, you know, all the time.

[Ken Berg]

Well, that I've noticed.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, but see, look, I still pretty. Have dark hair. I think I've got some gray in there, but I've got some dark roots. My hair was really, really dark, too. My dad was Scottish, you know, in English. So they can have that rich, really rich dark hair.

[Ken Berg]

I just want to point out that everything we did for Northern, there was no computer rendering or anything.

[Rob]

Oh, wow.

[Ken Berg]

And a big shout out. You know, they big shout out to, look what I have here. I don't know whether you can see that.

[Janine Turner]

We can't read it. What does it say? Is it a file?

[Ken Berg]

It's a file of all. All the sets.

[Rob]

Oh, my God. That's a collector's item. Wow.

[Ken Berg]

Look at that.

[Rob]

Right?

[Janine Turner]

Look at that. Oh, my goodness.

[Ken Berg]

All of them. I was trying to find the geodesic form, but I thought I'd just show you that.

[Janine Turner]

Ken, you were there on episode one then?

[Ken Berg]

Oh, I was. I was pretty much the first one. The first one signed on and the last one signed off. That's amazing, because we had to turn. After Universal decided not to keep the studio, we had to put it back to a warehouse. So we had to take out all the lighting grids.

[Rob]

Oh, man.

[Ken Berg]

All the soundproofing, all the mezzanines and make it look like a warehouse again.

[Janine Turner]

And now it's a studio again. At least when I was there and visiting, it's a studio again.

[Rob]

So show that scarf that. So every year, you know, we would make. I think this was. I would make up gifts for the. The crew and the cast. I think Janine did her version of it, but this was one of my first ones. Does it say the year on there?

[Ken Berg]

Yeah, 91.

[Rob]

91. So that was a scarf that says no X. What else does it Say no X, Northern Exposure, Christmas, Hanukkah, and Rob.

[Ken Berg]

I, I, I still have, I still have the boxer shorts.

[Rob]

We did socks.

[Ken Berg]

Socks. I've got the cardigan.

[Rob]

The cardigan, yeah.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, that's true. We had some cool gifts. When they picked it up for 50, they gave us a TV, remember?

[Ken Berg]

Oh, I didn't get one of those

[Janine Turner]

VHS tapes to record the 50 episodes. I mean, I don't know if any show's ever been picked up for 5, 0 before, since, during or after. I think who does that?

[Rob]

It was definitely unprecedented.

[Janine Turner]

Well, yeah, and I'm just gonna say I'm gonna stand by my idea that I mentioned Ken on another show. I think all the scripts should be put together as a collection of short stories. That would just be so cool. I may call Universal and talk to them about that. And then the other is, wouldn't that be cool to have that out there? Copies of those sets in a book? That'd be really interesting. I'm something I'd buy, I'd buy it. Okay. Well, thank you, Ken. What a fabulous, interesting life. Thanks for gracing your talent for 110 episodes of Northern Exposure. 110 episodes.

[Ken Berg]

It was a good ride.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, it was a good run. And you, you made it special. You made it beautiful. And we appreciate that you're with us today and sharing your stories. And Rob, I'll see you next week. I'll see all of you next week. And if you're just starting our show, we have a whole blog of three, four. We're in our fourth season now. You can go back and listen to the others as well. And for now, we're signing off. And from o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Rob]

Actually, it should be Fleischman o'. Connor.

[Ken Berg]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

In your dreams, Fleischmidt.

[Rob]

Yeah, Ken agrees with me.

[Ken Berg]

I agree.

[Janine Turner]

Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen

[Ken Berg]

Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

[Wil Wheaton]

Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage, and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller, Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories and I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it. So I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up where he left off. Off. And to my delight he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love pulled from the pages of Uncanny magazine, Lightspeed on Spec and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Storytime with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me.