S4E13: “Duets” with Rob Morrow and Janine Turner

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Northern Disclosure – S4E13: “Duets”

Date: July 14, 2026
Hosts: Rob Morrow & Janine Turner
Series: Northern Disclosure (Northern Exposure rewatch podcast)
Episode Covered: Northern Exposure, Season 4, Episode 13 – “Duets”

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Overview

In this episode, Rob Morrow and Janine Turner, stars of the original Emmy-winning ‘90s series Northern Exposure, revisit the poignant and thematically rich episode “Duets.” Their discussion blends behind-the-scenes memories, actor insights, philosophical musings, and playful banter. They focus particularly on Ed’s (Darren E. Burrows) emotional journey with his estranged father, the introduction of a blind piano tuner to Cicely, and Maggie’s (Turner) long-awaited romantic progress with Mike Monroe. Throughout, the hosts reflect on the show’s philosophical layers and their personal experiences as actors.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter and Setting the Scene

• [01:08-03:12]
  • Janine reflects on the weather in Texas and claims unusual rainfall is due to “cloud seeding,” sparking a playful, skeptical exchange with Rob.
    • “Where do you get this cloud seeding nonsense from?” – Rob [01:51]
    • Janine insists cloud seeding is real and used in Texas.
  • Sets a tone of lighthearted skepticism and quirky debate, characteristic of their dynamic.

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2. Recap of “Duets” – Main Storylines

• [03:12-04:18]
  • Rob outlines the three main threads:
    • Ed and his spirit guide, One Who Waits (Floyd Crow Westerman), helping Ed face his father.
    • Maggie fending off Mike Monroe, convinced she’s cursed after five boyfriends have died.
    • Holling hiring a blind piano tuner at The Brick, leading to unexpected dynamics.
  • Celebrates guest actors Kevin Conway (piano tuner) and Gordon Tootoosis (Ed’s father).

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3. Ed’s Emotional Arc & Performance Praise

• [04:39-07:31]
  • Both hosts spotlight Darren E. Burrows’ nuanced performance as Ed:
    • “It was so a tender storyline that he really realized beautifully… you just see Ed kind of in a new light.” – Rob [05:31]
    • Janine details Ed’s emotional vulnerability and layering, praising his restraint and humanity.
      • “You could see the depth of his soul with the emotion and the tears. But you could also see how he’s trying to cover that and say, ‘Oh, I know, it’s okay. It’s okay, it’s okay.’” [06:08]
    • Rob notes the authenticity of Floyd Crow Westerman’s spiritual guide and the understated, “no pyrotechnics” approach when he appears/disappears.

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4. Guest Stars and Their Impact

• [04:18, 08:12-08:18]
  • Highlights Gordon Tootoosis’ connection to the film Black Robe, referenced within the episode.
  • Recalls the excitement of distinguished actors visiting the set.

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5. Maggie and Mike Monroe: Finally a Kiss

• [08:43-10:11]
  • Janine acknowledges the patient build-up and emotional vulnerability leading to Maggie and Mike’s first kiss.
    • “Finally a kiss. I mean, I really didn’t remember. So I’m thinking, is he ever gonna… Are they ever gonna kiss?” – Janine [09:38]
  • Discusses selective memory as actors: memorable scenes often tied to difficulty or emotional charge.

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6. Behind-the-Scenes: Filming Locations

• [12:03-13:47]
  • Rob and Janine try to identify the scenic location used for Maggie and Mike’s walk, suspecting it wasn’t the usual shooting spot in Roslyn, WA.
  • Reminisce about their drivers and the routines of early morning pick-ups.

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7. The Piano Tuner Subplot

• [13:47-16:59]
  • Humor in Shelley shouting at the blind tuner is called out.
  • Technical filmmaking trickery for the piano sequences is praised.
    • “They very cleverly… did a very cool thing where they… start on his face, then tilt up to Shelley and someone else watching, right? Then they pull back and they reveal Kevin.” – Rob [14:36]
  • Janine observes small continuity quirks in the scene.

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8. Notable Quotes and Philosophical Touchstones

• On reality and time:

  • Floyd Crow Westerman’s “I’ve been in this world and the next one…” and “Some believe time is a wheel… some believe time is a river...I think time’s just time.” [17:53-18:35]
    • Leads to a deep dive into time, memory, and déjà vu as actors and humans.
      • “Momentum is an amazing force. And when it dissipates, it’s very hard to get it going again.” – Rob [19:31]
  • Janine draws parallels between déjà vu, acting, and the limits of memory.
    • “You stop and you go, I feel like I’ve been here before. Interesting that you’d bring that up.” – Janine [21:00]

• On change and personal growth:

  • “A leopard can’t change their spots, so to speak.” – Janine [24:26]
  • Rob disagrees, citing Gurdjieff: “But we forget, and it’s amazing how much we forget.” [24:44]
  • “But if you remember, you can. I have changed. Small little baby steps, but I do change.” – Rob [26:14]

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9. Maggie’s “Curse” and Character Choices

• [26:46-29:14]
  • Janine and Rob debate Maggie’s fear of hurting lovers and her romantic caution with Mike Monroe versus Fleischman.
    • “I am five for five. I’m a scientific phenomenon.” (referring to five boyfriends dying) – Maggie, paraphrased by Rob [26:56]

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10. Creative Fulfillment & Chasing Meaning

• [30:21-34:43]
  • Janine and Rob reflect on the fleeting nature of recognition and the deeper satisfaction of “the essence” and meaningful connections over external achievements.
    • “It’s not the numbers that matter, it’s just the essence of your work. …In a way, it’s not the numbers that matter, it’s just the essence of your work.” – Janine [34:43]

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11. Destiny, Preparedness, and Roles Choosing Actors

• [36:28-38:34]
  • Speculate on whether some roles “choose” the actor:
    • “Sometimes… it feels like… it kind of chose me… when I look back on them, the things that I had to explore were very pertinent to my life.” – Rob [36:48]
  • Janine credits “destiny” and preparedness:
    • “Luck is when opportunity meets preparedness.” – Janine, quoting her mother [37:58]

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12. Behind-the-Scenes: Script Sneaking & Days Off

• [38:50-40:58]
  • Rob confesses to sneaking into the office to preview scripts and relish rare “easy weeks” with fewer scenes to shoot.
    • “I do remember the feeling of thinking, oh my God, I’m getting paid all this money, and I’ve got five days to do whatever I want.” – Rob [40:44]

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13. Sports Banter & Next Episode Tease

• [40:58-42:37]
  • Light banter as Rob, in a Knicks hat, celebrates the (fictional) Knicks championship, recalls next week’s episode set in Grosse Pointe, and previews a favorite, memorable filming experience.

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14. Final Thoughts & Actor Praise

• [42:37-43:47]
  • Both hosts celebrate Darren E. Burrows’ poignant performance central to the episode’s emotional core.
    • “He just rose to that occasion in such a beautiful way with the tears and the vulnerability and yet the sensitivity…” – Janine [43:10]

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Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Where do you get this cloud seeding nonsense from?” – Rob, [01:51]
• “You could see the depth of his soul with the emotion and the tears. But you could also see how he’s trying to cover that and say, ‘Oh, I know, it’s okay. It’s okay, it’s okay.’ And that’s a beautiful duality.” – Janine, [06:08]
• “I love that there’s no pyrotechnics involved...he just walks in the room, or when he leaves, he just walks into the woods… We don’t gild the lily.” – Rob, [04:57]
• “Momentum is an amazing force. And when it dissipates, it’s very hard to get it going again.” – Rob, [19:31]
• “Luck is when opportunity meets preparedness.” – Janine (her mother’s advice), [37:58]
• “I think you can [change spots]. I just think it takes a concerted effort. …If you remember, you can. I have changed. Small little baby steps, but I do change.” – Rob, [24:44 & 26:15]
• “It’s not the numbers that matter, it’s just the essence of your work.” – Janine, [34:43]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Cloud Seeding & Opening Banter: 01:08–02:50
• Episode Plot Recap & Guest Cast: 03:12–04:39
• Ed’s Story & Darren Burrows Praise: 04:39–07:31 & 42:37–43:47
• First Kiss for Maggie & Mike Monroe: 08:43–10:11
• Behind-the-Scenes Locations: 12:03–13:47
• Piano Tuner Subplot: 13:47–16:59
• Philosophy on Time, Memory, and Change: 17:49–26:46
• Acting Process, Fulfillment & Destiny: 30:21–38:34
• Script Sneaking and Actor Schedules: 38:50–40:58
• Sports Banter & Future Episode Tease: 40:58–42:37

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Tone and Style

Throughout, Rob and Janine’s rapport is warm, quirky, candid, and philosophical—much like the show they’re discussing. Their insights oscillate between playful debate, respectful reflection, and deep philosophical exploration, often connecting the show’s themes to their own growth and experiences as actors and people.

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If you haven’t watched “Duets,” this episode of the podcast highlights its emotional resonance, the show’s unique blend of magic and realism, and the ways it continues to inspire introspection and laughter decades later.

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Transcript

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[Jeanine Turner]

Hi, it's Jeanine Turner. Welcome to Northern Disclosure, where my co host Rob Morrow and I walk through every episode of Northern Disclosure. And we're already in season four, which is unbelievable. But we're going to talk about Northern Exposure Season 4, Episode 13 Duets hello, Rob Morrow.

[Rob Morrow]

Hey, Janine. How you doing?

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm fine, thank you.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. What's new?

[Jeanine Turner]

Just Texas. Texas? It's summer.

[Rob Morrow]

It's pretty hot there, huh?

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. Well, no, it's not horribly hot yet. It's just like 94.

[Rob Morrow]

It's on its way though.

[Jeanine Turner]

We've had a lot of rain. I think it's all the rain seeding, cloud seeding they're doing these days. We're not having the droughts we used to have. It's like the tropics around here. Storms every day.

[Rob Morrow]

Where do you get this cloud seeding nonsense from?

[Jeanine Turner]

But started in 1947 and it's a fact that the government started it.

[Rob Morrow]

How do you know it's a fact?

[Jeanine Turner]

Because it's a fact. And you can go, you can see and in these certain states actually do cloud seed. Texas is one of them.

[Rob Morrow]

How do you cloud seed?

[Jeanine Turner]

They project or drop it from an airplane. Certain sulfur, I don't know what it is. Some kind of chemical and it mixes with the clouds and it makes more clouds.

[Rob Morrow]

It makes more clouds, but it makes rain.

[Jeanine Turner]

It makes rain eventually, yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

I don't know if that's real. Is cloud seeding real?

[Jeanine Turner]

It's definitely real.

[Rob Morrow]

It's used for over 80 years. Involves introducing tiny particles into existing clouds using planes or ground based generators to encourage moisture. Cloud seeding doesn't create storms out of thin air. Instead, it squeezes more precipitation out of clouds that are already present. The process supercooled liquid. So, I mean, it doesn't seem to make a difference in where there's droughts. So I wonder how it must not be that effective.

[Jeanine Turner]

No, it doesn't work when there are droughts because if there are droughts, there are no clouds. So it won't it wouldn't work in August, but like, when it rains, it's going to rain more. And so I don't exactly know if they're clouds sitting over my ranch. However it had there has been a lot of rain and it's very lush and there are lots of, lots of nature and it's quite beautiful, actually.

[Rob Morrow]

So duets duets Season 4, episode 13, as Ms. Turner said, was directed by Wynn Phelps and it was written by Jeffrey Nair, neither of whom Wynn was there for one episode. And Jeffrey is a name I don't really recall. Do you, Jeanine?

[Jeanine Turner]

No.

[Rob Morrow]

So One who Waits, Ed's spirit guide, returns with news of his father. As Ed accompanies him to the building site where his father works, he gets a job and get to the man who abandoned him when he was just a baby, but just can't bring himself to tell his father who he is. Elsewhere, Maggie holds off Mike's advances by telling him that she's cursed. And Holling has a blind man tune the piano in the Brick. But r the day that he let him in when he's not because he's not what Holling expected. And the piano tuner is played by by the great Kevin Conway, you know, who we know from New York. The I don't know if he's still with us, but he was great actor and really I was so proud. I remember when he showed up, whenever any great actors from the theater came, I was always excited. And then we have one who waits, played by Floyd Crow Westerman, who is iconic and was great. I wonder, did he come back for more than one episode, do you remember?

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, he was in an earlier episode, so this was his second episode that.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Oh, Briana was our editor. I see here. Yeah. I I don't remember if he came after this show or not, but I love the whole aspect of a spiritual guide coming.

[Rob Morrow]

It's so cool and it's so sweet. It's so. I love that there's no pyrotechnics involved. You know, there's no effects. Like when he shows up, he just walks in the room or when he leaves, he just Walks into the woods. I think that's such a. You know, it's such a northern. It's such a sweet northern exposure kind of thing where, you know, we don't gild the lily, as they say. You know, you could easily have had him, you know, vanish into mist or something like that. But he just appears and he's so authentic. I'm. You know, he. He's not like an actor's actor, but he's just so authentic in. In the way, you know, and obviously in his heritage. But his relationship with. With Darren, who. Who we really have to sing Darren's praises for this episode. It was so a tender storyline that he really realized beautifully. There were a couple moments that really got to me his last close up. You know, you just see Ed kind of in a new light, I would say, don't you think?

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, I think Ed, Darren was finally given something to really sink his teeth into so you could see his acting chops and what he's capable of doing. And I loved the realism and kind of the relaxation, falling into that emotional vulnerability. A lot of times, Ed, in the way Darren played Ed, is always sort of covering up his emotions. It's like, oh, I'm happy. I'm happy and I'm there for everybody. And in that last scene about what you're referring, where he has tears in his eyes and is saying, oh, no, no, I'm okay. One of the things I love the most in actors are layers of emotions. And you could see the depth of his soul with the emotion and the tears. But you could also see how he's trying to cover that and say, oh, I know, it's okay. It's okay, it's okay. And that. That's a beautiful duality. And not only that, he. He then offers his father a glass of water. You know what I mean? That's how sweet he is. It's the same Ed that wanted Maurice and. And Peg Phillips, you know, Ruthan, to get along last week. He had the grace and the beauty to not say, I need some water. This is really hard for me, you know, but he was written in such a way and played in such a beautiful way because he could have played it anyway. He could have played it, portrayed that particular scene in such a way that he was really angry. But he didn't. And instead he offered him a glass of water. I thought. What did you think about that moment? I thought that moment was pretty amazing.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, it was really tender and sweet. So many moments. And the whole way, the story kind of kicks In. I mean, the fact that one who Waits says something like, he couldn't get Ed out of his mind. This poor orphan boy that he just kept thinking about, about. And so from the. From the kind of the spirit realm, if you will, he had to come and manifest so that he could guide Ed. That's such a comforting notion. You know, that this. Our. That there's spirits out there keeping an eye out on us.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, and the. I was looking at the actor's name who played his father.

[Rob Morrow]

That's. That's a guy named Gordon Tutuisis.

[Jeanine Turner]

He. He was excellent as well.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. And also he's in a. He's funny because Ed mentions the movie Black Robe and. And Gordon was in that. He plays Pete, his dad, which is interesting. A little. Kind of. Little trivia thing there. And then, of course, we got Mike Monroe. We got Tony there with you and you and him almost. We have your kid. Is that the first kiss you guys have?

[Jeanine Turner]

I do believe that was our first kiss. And, you know, so funny. Do you remember. I mean, do you remember all. Do you remember that particular scene between the two of.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, I wasn't there.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, you were. I walk in, take my coat off and. Oh, you weren't in that scene. There was a scene between us in this episode where I walk in and want to get advice.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, yeah. You and me. I mean, I don't remember it specifically, but it certainly, you know, seemed like a regular.

[Jeanine Turner]

I watch that fine line between watching and remembering and then remembering. It's like, how much do I have any remembrances of filming? There's still certain moments that I do remember. Like in Survival of the Species, I remember putting that paper in my mouth and chewing it. I think it's sort of like memories that we have as children. You don't remember the beautiful and wonderful times because they don't jar the brain. You just remember the difficult times because your brain then had to confer with trouble. And so it had a deeper root in your memory.

[Rob Morrow]

That's a really interesting point.

[Jeanine Turner]

So I feel that way with the show. I mean, if there's something really difficult for me or unique or crazily different, like putting in a paper in my mouth and having to chew it, I tend to remember those things, but I don't remember much about this episode, but. Except that. But it was sweet to see the vulnerability of the two of them, of Mike Monroe and a kiss. Finally. I mean, finally a kiss. I mean, I really didn't remember. So I'm thinking, is he ever gonna. Are they ever gonna kiss? And then, you know, it was obviously the time where it needed to happen. Cause even I was feeling impatient with that.

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[Rob Morrow]

And then I love where you guys took that walk. Do you remember where that was? No, because that wasn't, that was, that was. Must have been closer to Seattle because that looked like, like it was looking out toward the San Juans out there or Lake Washington. I mean it wasn't, it wasn't anything near where we normally shoot.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't think I had the exact same thought and I saw that beautiful vista and I thought, where were we? I don't, I don't remember going out there. This would be fun. It would be so fun to get someone from transportation. You know, the. We both had people that would pick us up and drive us to our locations. Mine was Cliff. I don't know where Cliff is. If anybody knows where Cliff is, let us know. It'd be so fun to get Cliff because Cliff would remember, right?

[Rob Morrow]

Maybe. Yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

He would drive me to all those locations and show up at my door at 4:30 in the morning and knock on my door to pick me up. In the dark. And I'd be coming downstairs with Eclair, my poodle who didn't always have tear dried tears. I keep thinking about that, how you said that disturbed you most of the time.

[Rob Morrow]

She did, she did, yes, ma'. Am.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, you know, poodles faces had to be groomed. Yes, she was old, but anyway, I would walk down the stairs with Eclair and he. We'd pick up and go in the dark of night. And the good thing is as actors you don't have to have hair and makeup done. You can just put up some sweats and grab a case or, you know, purse and your. Whatever else you need on the road. But I don't remember where that was, but it was obviously not in Redmond, not in Woodinville, not in, not in Rosslyn, you know.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, it looked like, it looked like we were looking out over the sound or out toward the San Juans or something.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, so it must have been, it must have been what, west of Seattle a little bit somewhere.

[Rob Morrow]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

Or.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, somewhere around there. You know, it's funny, I was thinking about how, you know, Kevin Conway is. Play. Plays. What's his name? Arlene. Arlen Briscoe is his name. And he, he's blind and Shelly, Shelly talks loud to him.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, I thought that was funny too.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, and it was good, it was a good episode for, for Cullum. You know, he had, he had a lot to deal with there. You know, I think Kevin Conway is a good foil. You know, he's a, he's a strong actor. So he got something to kind of play against that was different than, than usual.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, not that Cynthia wasn't a good actor. Cynthia was a great actress.

[Rob Morrow]

No, no, I'm not implying that. I'm just saying, you know, like he's a. Kevin Conway's more of a force, you know. And you know, it's funny because I think the, you know, they very cleverly when, when, when Phelps did a great job of covering for the people playing the piano, because I don't think anyone plays the piano. I don't think Elaine plays the piano and I don't think Kevin Conway plays the piano, but they did a very cool thing where they, when I think Kevin's playing at the end and they, they start on his face. No, they start on the hands right on the piano. Then they tilt up to Shelley and someone else watching, right? Then they pull back and they reveal Kevin. And so my guess is someone was sitting there playing the pianos. They quickly switched and then Kevin was in there for when the shot got to him. And I think the same thing when Elaine was playing. They had someone else's hands, but it was done well. And those are beautiful pieces.

[Jeanine Turner]

Did you catch that moment when. Cause I rewound it and said, wait. Cynthia is meeting him for the first time, Shelley. And she speaks really loudly and starts to walk off. And then I think Colum starts to walk away. Holling and says, ask him if he wants a moose. Which I thought was kind of strange.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, oh. But because I think he was like, he didn't. Like he didn't want to talk to him kind of thing.

[Jeanine Turner]

Like right there and then Shelly walks off, and then Hollying walks off, but barely. You could almost see Holling's shoulder. And I thought he said, this will be fun to have audience participation. I. I thought he said, which we're working on. I. I thought he said, how about a moose? Ask him if he wants a moose burger. And the next thing you know, boom, he's right back and he's talking to him again. And I thought, was that a loop that, you know, he went off and that was a loop that said, ask him if he wants a moose? Bur maybe I didn't even hear that correctly. I don't know. But I thought that didn't even really make sense because he could have stood there and said, would you like a moose burger? I don't. Did you catch that at all?

[Rob Morrow]

I don't know. I don't.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't.

[Rob Morrow]

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about, but the only thing I thought of when you said it was he could. He didn't want to talk to him, and he wanted Shelley to talk to him because he was pissed at him.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. May have been what they did. I bet that was a loop. I bet that was a loop line, because I think he walked off and then he came back. I don't know. I just thought that was a little bit of an interesting moment that I caught.

[Rob Morrow]

I love the line when Kevin Conway says about Reese regarding Shelley to Holling, he says, I can feel the heat radiating off your prostate.

[Jeanine Turner]

I don't remember that good line. I just remember that he said, she's tall and lanky or long legged. You know, he could figure that out. I thought that was. That was fun. And there were some lines I liked. I liked it when Floyd was talking about he'd been in this world and the next one, you know, he. I think it was in. Perhaps in the store, but he was talking about, I've been in this world and the next one. I think he was. I did. Then. I did. But I think he was talking about looking for his father. I've been in Ed's father. I've been in this world and the next one, which I find all those things really fascinating.

[Rob Morrow]

You're talking about the kind of another realm of existence, like the afterlife, right?

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. He was saying, I've been looking for your father in this world and the next one.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, I remember the line, for sure.

[Jeanine Turner]

I love all those, you know, other dimensions in heaven or wherever people go when they pass. I love all that. I thought that was really interesting. I'm looking into this world in the next one. And then he says, some believe time is. This is Floyd again. Some people believe time is a wheel, you know, circular. And some believe time is a river. So, in other words, some believes you had your chance and you'll have it again. And some people believe that it's a river. And once you've missed that chance, it's gone.

[Rob Morrow]

But then he says. Then he finishes it with saying, I think time's just time.

[Jeanine Turner]

Time is time. Yeah. Yeah. I just think time is time. Well, of course, I think the next dimension, there is no time there. Time, there is no time. But right now, I don't. Oh, that's a really philosophically interesting one. I know that you and I used to talk about riding the wave all the time with our careers. Remember that?

[Rob Morrow]

No, but it sounds good.

[Jeanine Turner]

But you always talk about riding the wave, that in your career, when you're on the crest of this wave, you've got to ride the wave and not lose the impetus of the wave. And that was really hard for us on the show because we were 25 episodes. You know, now it's so easy to do a series because it's seven episodes, eight episodes, and then you're free for the rest of the year. But we only had that, you know, basically six to eight weeks to try to squeeze a movie in. But I just think about. I hear you in my head saying that all the time. So I think in your respect, it would. You would. If you're riding the wave, that would be. Time is a river.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. Except that the wave. You know, the thing that. The thing that I've learned about in terms of career and stuff like that, you're talking about. Momentum is a. Momentum is an amazing force. And when it dissipates, it's very hard to get it going again. It's really hard. So that's what I think I was getting at, you know, while riding that wave. Because the longer you stay, you know, if you create friction that stops that wave somehow it's hard to get another one. That doesn't mean there aren't more waves, but it's hard to get another one, you know, I'm with you. About time. It just feels like it's, you know, it's a man made construct really. It's not anything, you know, it's not anything natural. It's just an idea that we have to keep track of things. And it does seem that most of what we experience is probably made up in our heads and, and so who knows where, where we go, you know, in terms of repeating or experiencing things again. You know, deja vu is an interesting thing. You know, sometimes they say that's like the mind just catching up with something, but it often feels like, you know, there's something, there's some connection to, to some experience out of time.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, that could be the parallel universe for sure.

[Rob Morrow]

Absolutely.

[Jeanine Turner]

Because deja vu's are really interesting. You stop and you go, I feel like I've been here before. Interesting that you'd bring that up. Bring that up. That's really true. You're like, I think I really feel like this has happened before. It's so bizarre. I know. It happens. Very bizarre. You know, it's almost like Truman Show. You know, we break through the, the set. You know, when he's in the water and he punches through and he, he, it goes, he goes, wait, this isn't reality. I thought this was reality.

[Rob Morrow]

That's a great analogy because that, that the Truman show as a metaphor for our own selves, you know, this construct that we, that we agree to live in. You know, I've had, I've had little teeny flashes of kind of, you know, because I do this deep meditations and I get these flashes, but I can't. As soon as I try to hold on to it or grab it, I can't. It's fleeting. But there's something, you know, and I've had drug, I've had like sights, you know, I had a psychotropic trip on drugs that was really amazing. And I got to experience things that stayed with me, but it's beyond my normal comprehension.

[Jeanine Turner]

I have those in meditation as well. Prayer, meditation. And it's interesting, I think as actors we're very sensorial and we seek the senses and we utilize the senses for our work. So I think beyond maybe since we're trained to be sensorial. I remember after my father died, I would Just lie there and meditate and really try to connect with, with him or connect with angels or people in between or just connect with him in some way. But it's an effort.

[Rob Morrow]

It's a lot of work and it's. And it's like a muscle, right? You have to do it. You have to do it consistently, I think, to really, to really make progress. Did you ever. Did you have moments of transcendence, so to speak?

[Jeanine Turner]

I did, I felt, I felt. I did have moments where I connected with my father.

[Rob Morrow]

That's cool.

[Jeanine Turner]

But, you know, if you just go through your daily life and you're really busy, it's never going to happen. You have to take that moment, actually have that spiritual. You have to really try to connect. And so I don't know if I think time's a will or time's a river. I think, I think you do get, you know, there's this thing called sober references where something happens and it happens again and you have a new reference of that.

[Rob Morrow]

What's the, what's the word?

[Jeanine Turner]

Sober reference.

[Rob Morrow]

Sober, like sober like not drunk.

[Jeanine Turner]

Right, right. Like you, you had this happen, but then you have a. You get to do it again.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, I see what I mean. Yeah, yeah.

[Jeanine Turner]

Now you've dealt with it in a sober manner. And I think that if you even just take that element of drinking out of it, I find sometimes there are experiences that I have and then I get to have them again, you know what I mean? And I get to go, okay, this time I'm going to do this. I'm going to apply what I've learned and I'm going to do it differently. So in that respect, I would think time's a wheel, that we do have other opportunities that may not be exactly the same, but there will be other opportunities.

[Rob Morrow]

That's the fascinating thing about writing a memoir because you experience your life kind of from a different perspective, almost, almost somewhat objectively. And you look at, you watch yourself, and you go, oh my God, I'm still doing this shit at this age that I did at 20. You know, I'm still doing that. I still have that kind of knee jerk reaction to things. It's. It's humbling to say the least.

[Jeanine Turner]

Wasn't there a reference of that in the show where he says, people remain like people are always the same? I thought there was some sort of reference in that vein that, you know, you can't really. A leopard can't change their spots, so to speak.

[Rob Morrow]

I disagree with that. I think you can. I just think, like we're talking about before. It takes a concerted effort. You know, there was a philosophy that I studied years ago, this guy Gurdjieff. And it's pretty esoteric and out there, but one of their central tenets was that we forget. You know, we forget. And if we'd remember, we could. We could, you know, change the spots, so to speak. But we forget, and it's amazing how much we forget. You know, I find this. I find. Here's the one. One of the things I find so fascinating because I meditate so daily for so long, you know, and again, maybe. Maybe 20% of it is really, you know, trends is doing what it's supposed to. A lot of it is just thought. But what I found fascinating is I am in there medit. Am trying to focus right on something beyond me. And it'll be five minutes before I realize I'm thinking about a job I want. You know, five minutes will go by and I'll be like, oh, and this guy said this, and if he said that and if she said that, and I'm going to get this and how much I get paid and where do I go? You know, and then it's like five minutes, and I'll go, oh, my God. And that's in a concerted effort. So think about the forgetting that we do all the time. You know, forgetting the behaviors and the patterns that we want to break. And that's, I think, why the spots are hard to change. But if you. If you remember, you can. I have changed. You know, small little baby steps, but it. But I do change.

[Jeanine Turner]

I've. I've definitely changed and grown and learned from my mistakes. Um, but I do find the core nature of myself is. I mean, I'm a challenger. And I probably. We've talked about this before, you know, I'm a challenger. I think I will always be a challenger. But I've learned how to let things go more. Just say, you know what? I don't. I don't have to take this on. And I can give this. We talked about last week. I can give this to the Holy Spirit, and I can let the Holy Spirit go take care of this. It's really great because it helps me let go of control.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, I was just thinking of some of Maggie's, you know, speaking of journeys and stuff and changing and trying to change. She says to Mike that I'm. I'm like global warming and toxic sludge all rolled into one. I. I am five for five. I'm a scientific phenomenon, meaning five or Five boyfriends that have died. It's such a great. I. It's such a great notion that. That someone is cursed. You know, I don't really believe in external forces creating curses. I do think that we can curse ourselves by forgetting. Like, you know, but, like, in Maggie's case, right, she didn't. You know, she. She. First of all, she's not cursed. But this phenomenon of. Of these guys dying is a fascinating thing, you know, and now.

[Alex Goldman]

But.

[Rob Morrow]

But. But you could. By the way, you can sense her changing because she's. Instead of going head over heels in. In jumping in the sack, so to speak, with. With Mike, she's like, saying, no, I'm gonna stop this. I am not gonna kill another person.

[Jeanine Turner]

Well, what I think is interesting is she doesn't think first when it comes to Fleischman when they have the roles in the hay.

[Rob Morrow]

But soon thereafter, Right. Guns start going off and she forgets.

[Jeanine Turner]

Talk about forgetting. She forgets she did, but. So you have to look at that and say, okay, well, he was so vulnerable to begin with that she probably felt that she had to sort of take care of him. Whereas Fleischmann is such a fighter that they kind of have this. They're both similar personalities. And she might not have been as worried about Fleischmann, or her emotions just took over because she. She was so sexually attracted to Fleischman. And maybe she was attracted to him, but she. And she didn't want to kill him. But maybe she. It also was. It really wasn't all that for her too. I mean, I don't know.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, it doesn't seem like. I think she's more kind of intrigued by him than head over heels. You know, he's an intriguing guy. I mean, he's smart and he's eccentric and he's cute and, you know, but he's. It doesn't seem like she's, like, this is the guy I have to be with.

[Jeanine Turner]

I think a little of that was missing. And so her kind of sexual emotions didn't kind of overtake her brain.

[Rob Morrow]

Did you like working with Tony? Was it fun to work with him?

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. I don't have a lot of memories. I kind of go back to when everything was sort of copacetic. You don't really have that. Those. You're not really triggered in your brain in that groove. You tend to remember highlights. But I just remember that he was a gentleman. Very, very nice.

[Rob Morrow]

Absolutely.

[Jeanine Turner]

You and I would have so many. We challenged each other and had passionate opinions and thoughts. So we always had A lot of. Kind of. We had a high kinetic energy with each other. So I probably have a lot more memories between you and I. Not that they weren't bad, not that they weren't good, but just that, you know, with that, I just. It was one of those things, like, once again, everything was good. Good. I mean, it's like. And don't. As a parent, don't you wish. It's like, why can't the kids remember all the good times? But then if you look at our memories with our parents, we're always harping on that thing that happened, that one thing.

[Rob Morrow]

No, I think you make a good point about. I mean, I'm sure that's probably how the brain. The memories work. You know, they get. There's some kind of flag that goes off that. That triggers it. So we. We retain the trauma of it. It's a good point.

[Jeanine Turner]

My mother used to always say to me, when you're on. When you want to be on a magazine cover, not that you really wanted that, but we were driven at the time. And, you know, never. It never made you feel warm and cozy or changed your life that much. But when you're driven and you want to have, like, a great. A great career, and you look at, say, Julia Roberts on a magazine cover, and I'm like, I want to be on that magazine cover. Right? And then so that feeling is very, very strong because I'm not on that magazine cover. And then you. You get on the magazine cover and you kind of go, oh, okay, I'm on the magazine cover. And it's not as strong as an emotion of that desire. That desire. And so satisfaction is almost not as good. As good of a feeling as the desire. You know, people always say that I never want to be a part of a club, that they would actually have me.

[Rob Morrow]

Groucho. Groucho Marx said that. Yeah. Like, it's an interesting thing when you get what you want. You know, it. Because I don't think those things are that really what. What fills us. You know, the materialistic things, you know, the successes. They're. They're not. It's the. It's the little connections, you know, it's the. It's the moments. It's my friend saying, you know, hey, you want to have brunch on Sunday? And I was on. Or I say, you want to have brunch? And he can't. And then all of a sudden, he comes back to me and says, well, I could do it early. And, you know, you're like, oh, this Is like this, this. This is a connection that, that. That's more important, and you certainly realize that. But. But like, when we were back in the day, we were focused, so focused on. On all of these material things, you know, spending money and, and achieving career, you know, milestones and magazine covers and all that stuff. But you don't. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about that, you know, no, that

[Jeanine Turner]

obviously wasn't my goal, or I would have taken all those other roles with, you know, bikini clad roles that I could have been a huge, instant success. Right. So it wasn't about the success for me as much. It was. As much of it was the, the quality of the work. And that's why I got so lucky for holding out so long and getting Northern Exposure, because it was everything. It was. It was a. It was a role with dignity. And I could have taken a lot of roles that didn't have dignity if I just wanted the Corvette, you know, and the, the magazine covers and the. The glam. So it wasn't that I wanted that because I was really driven more for integrity, but I was just giving that example because sometimes you look at other people working all the time. Oh, look at them. You know, when you're driven. When we're so driven in our 20s, which. Don't you see it in our kids? You know, we see it in our kids. You're so driven. You're like, oh, they're doing a movie in Italy. I want to do a movie in Italy. You know what I mean? And then you get a movie in Italy and you go, okay, I'm doing a movie in Italy. And I have to remind myself, wait, this is something I really.

[Prime Video Narrator]

It's just.

[Jeanine Turner]

It's just the. The passions of the haves and the have nots and thinking that it's the drive, and I guess that's what drives us. It's not a bad thing, really.

[Rob Morrow]

No, no. I don't think we're talking about it being bad. We're just talking about what has real meaning ultimately. And I think as you get older, you find that the connections, the experiences, you know, I think about the experience of doing a project more than the results, because how many have we done that nobody saw, you know, that were. I've done stuff that, as far as I'm concerned, is the best work I've ever done, and no one saw it. You know, I've done movies and TV shows and plays that I thought were spectacular and no one saw them. I've done stuff that I hated that people think are brilliant. You know, it's like, so, so what I'm chasing now is the experience of doing something that, that gives me more satisfaction and then also experience letting myself experience it, you know, not just try to get through it, but. But acting's a tough thing, you know, especially if it's a demanding part. It takes. You have to, I have to check. I have to leave a little bit of myself in reserve. You know, if I'm doing a lot of heavy emotional scenes, I have to kind of keep something to myself. And so it allow. Doesn't allow me to be present in, in the end, the, in the off camera moments. Although maybe that's changing as I get older.

[Jeanine Turner]

First, two things I want to say in response to what you were saying, but one is when I think about, say, my father, whom I loved so much, and he passed in 2014, I have. There were so many memories I have of him talking about, you know, but then also it was just his essence, you know, what, what was the. What, what was my energy? You know, what was his energy? What was his essence? The essences of people that remember. Even my daughter, I mean, we were so close and we were. But can I remember every single moment with her, you know? No. I remember kind of the essences of the times that we had. And I remember a lot of the moments, of course, but I can't remember every time, you know, she and I had dinner or I remember the first time we had dinner, you know, all those. It's the essence. So I think about that. What kind of essence am I leaving behind? And the other thing I was thinking about when you said no one saw. Whenever I give speeches, I go out and say, okay, you know, I turn it over to God. Whatever you want me to say, whoever you want me to touch in this audience, whatever is your will, let it just. And of course I prepare a speech or do whatever I'm supposed to do, but we never know. There may be 200 people that are touched. There might be one person's life that was touched. So there may be one person that watched your episode that you thought nobody watched. And it didn't really do that. Then maybe the numbers weren't huge, but you probably touched 1, 5, 10 people in some sort of way. And you'll never know how or how it was intended in that spiritual realm, but you did touch that one person. So in a way, it's not the numbers that matter, it's just the essence of your work. And did that communicate? And it could have communicated to somebody that we never hear. And that's the difference between theater and film. You know, in film, we do it. We go home. It's in the dark of a stage. We go home. We never really know. I mean, there might be a letter that comes through or. But in stage, you know, people are going to respond or not.

[Rob Morrow]

Do you ever think that the parts. Characters that we get choose us versus us choosing them. Them?

[Jeanine Turner]

Define that.

[Rob Morrow]

Like Maggie. I don't mean Maggie as a real entity, but the. But the cat, the. The. The somehow that was. Chose you as opposed to you choosing it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Define that more.

[Rob Morrow]

Sometimes with Fleischman, say, for example, it feels like that it kind of chose me. You know, I went through a process. It was pretty clear from the first minute I read that it was. Was a good fit, you know, And I remember reading for Josh and John, and I remember them kind of just going like, yeah. You know, and I just remember certain parts that kind of. When I look back on them, you know, the things that I had to explore were very pertinent to my life, you know. And so I mean it in a kind of metaphysical sense that somehow, again, if you take time out of. Out of linearness and you just look at it in a. In a kind of big wash, this kind of thing came to me for some bigger reason. This. This experience.

[Jeanine Turner]

I'm with you there. And I would say, yes, I. I think it's probably a little bit of both. My mother used to always say to me, luck is when opportunity meets preparedness.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, that's a great phrase. Benjamin Franklin said some version of it.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah. So when you're. When luck is when opportunity meets preparedness. So I think I had to do all the preparation. But I do know I was holding out and saying no to a lot of projects because I didn't want to have a. I wanted to roll with dignity for as a woman. And then, boom, it all came together at that time. But if I hadn't been prepared for it, you know, if I hadn't moved to New York, cut my hair off, rolling around on, you know, know, acting training, no more finger. You know, I just. I kind of prepared for that moment. But then it was the. The right opportunity came along, and I. I would hearken that back all to destiny.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, there's that thing from. From the. The program. You know, God does for you what you can't. You do for you what you can.

[Jeanine Turner]

God will do for you what you cannot do for yourself. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah. And you do for you what you can.

[Jeanine Turner]

Step. Well, show up, show up, do the best you can with the day, and then wait for that opportunity to come.

[Rob Morrow]

Let's get back to the show a little more, you know. You know, it's funny that Fleischman's not barely. He's. I think he's got two little scenes. Corbett has got, like. I think he's just bookends it. I don't even think he's in any scenes. But I remember. I do. You know this. It's funny. You talk about the. Well, here's the good thing, though, that I'm remembering. I remember when I watched that episode and I started to say, oh, I'm not in this. I remember the feeling of having days looking at a schedule because, you know, I got to the point, you know, they never. You remember, they never gave us the scripts, right? They wouldn't let us have the scripts. Every department got the scripts, but the actors weren't allowed to have them because they were concerned we were going to bitch about the way our character was being depicted or whatever. But I knew where they kept them, so they kept them in a filing cabinet in the office. And I would sneak in there during lunch when everyone was out, and I'd go to the episode coming up, and I could flip through it, like. And after 100 episodes, I could flip through it and go. Go three days, four days, one day, two days. So I would look through, and I would see Joel is like three places, and they're all all in the same location, which meant that was just one day of shooting. So I. I do remember the feeling of thinking, oh, my God, I'm getting paid all this money, and I've got five days to do whatever I want. And that was like. That was such a great feeling because I had money. I had. You know, I was famous. I could get in anywhere I wanted to go. And I. And, you know, I could get on a plane and fly somewhere. You know, whatever I wanted to do, I could do. And I do remember that distinct. What a great feeling that was to wake up on that first day off and go, like, wow, I can do anything. It was that. That's kind of my take on. On those days off.

[Jeanine Turner]

You sneaky, sneaky.

[Rob Morrow]

Yes. Sneaking to look at the scripts.

[Jeanine Turner]

See, I don't think I ever would have done that.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, yeah. I had no problem doing it.

[Jeanine Turner]

I didn't know we could sneak in. Maybe if you'd taken me along with you, we could have snuck in together.

[Rob Morrow]

By the way, I got the New York Knicks hat on because they won the final the championship. It was such a great playoff. And I got the hat.

[Jeanine Turner]

My first comment to you today was your Knicks hat.

[Rob Morrow]

That's right. You spotted it right away.

[Jeanine Turner]

It was against San Antonio and I'm from Texas, but.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, well, I'm sorry. They're a good team. They played well, but they're young. You know, they. That was an interesting example of kind of the youth. You know, they had all this energy and they came out strong in every game, usually in the beginning. But then the kind of wisdom of maturity of the Knicks took over and they kind of just like, we'll sit back, we'll let you guys get tired. You know, like Muhammad Ali used to do. They did some rope a doping on. On San Antonio.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yeah, but ye. Don't you remember that? It's the next episode, actually.

[Rob Morrow]

You.

[Jeanine Turner]

I get you to go to Grosse Pointe with me. It'll be next week's episode. And because I have Knicks tickets.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, that's. I didn't remember that. But, you know, that's one of those episodes that I really remember. The experience, it was so fun because it was such a different thing. It was. We were in. I don't think we were in Sicily, you know, or if we probably started and ended the show, but we were in where you grew up, where Maggie grew up. And we shot that in Seattle in a. You know, and it was such a different vibe that it was so much fun.

[Jeanine Turner]

I remember so much about that show. And then that goes back to the theory. It was unique, it was different. It triggered different aspects of our brain. So it stuck with us. I mean, I remember almost. I remember behind the scenes things about that show that when it was just kind of the mundane things that we were sort of used to doing, don't always stick to sticking it.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, you'll share them next week. Before we sign off. I want to just shout out again to Darren. You know, I thought there was something. Something so tender that I hadn't seen, I don't think ever yet, maybe in subsequent episodes. But there was the emotional, sweet emotionality when he reveals to his father that he's his son. You know, it was really lovely. And I just want to sing his praises because he did such a nice job in this episode.

[Jeanine Turner]

I echo that completely. I was glad that they gave him something that warranted the depth of his acting ability and that he just rose to that occasion in such a beautiful way with the tears and the vulnerability and yet the sensitivity and the yearning and yet his fear and not wanting to do it. The fear of being rejected. He played it all just bravo, Darren.

[Rob Morrow]

And I guess even though I don't really remember when Phelps hats off to him because he got him to do it or helped him to do it or captured him doing it, whatever it was.

[Jeanine Turner]

Did you notice this show seemed darker?

[Rob Morrow]

It didn't, nothing jumped out at me.

[Jeanine Turner]

Okay. It just seemed darker. It wasn't, didn't have that kind of brightness behind it. You know, there's always sort of a bright, I, I, I thought, is it my tv? But it's the same tv. But well, it's fun reminiscing about all of this, isn't it?

[Rob Morrow]

Yes, it is.

[Jeanine Turner]

Throwing in a little philosophy, which is what the show may the show makes us think along those lines. Lines.

[Rob Morrow]

That's right. So I hope you in the audience tolerate Janine and I our, our little transgressions here and, and hopefully it, you find it interesting and not boring. But, but thanks for tuning in. Thanks for, you know, listening and giving us your comments. And you can hit that subscribe button and tell other people about the, the podcast.

[Jeanine Turner]

Yes. And we'll see you next week talking about Gross Point, which Rob and I remember distinctly. So that'll be a lot of fun. And for now, we're going to sign off. Thanks for joining us, o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Rob Morrow]

Actually, Fleischman o'.

[Jeanine Turner]

Connell, in your dreams, Fleischman. Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

[Alex Goldman]

Hi, I'm Alex Goldman. You may know me as the host of Reply all, but I'm done with that.

[Rob Morrow]

I'm doing something else now.

[Alex Goldman]

I've started a new podcast called Hyperfixed. On every episode of Hyperfixed, listeners write in with their problems and I try to solve them. Some massive and life altering and some so minuscule it'll boggle your mind. No matter the problem, no matter the size, I'm here for you. That's Hyperfixed, the new podcast from Radiotopia. Find it wherever you listen to podcasts [e-mail].