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Northern Disclosure
S4E8: “Thanksgiving” with Briana London
00:55:03
Rob Morrow and Janine Turner reunite with editor Briana London to re-watch Northern Exposure S4E8 "Thanksgiving".
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- [00:01]
Wil Wheaton
Mornings have a rhythm. You can hear it, feel it.
- [00:06]
Rob Fleischman
And at Quaker, we fuel it with 100% whole grain oats and a good source of fiber in every bowl, helping you turn that rhythm into your soundtrack for a great day. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker Official Sponsor of FIFA World Cup
- [00:23]
Brianna Lennon
26 I oh, let's go. I oh, let's go.
- [00:32]
Rob Fleischman
This is what everyone's talking about.
- [00:35]
Janine Turner
Everything's on the table.
- [00:37]
Rob Fleischman
This is what champions come to take. This is what everyone came to see. No do overs, no second chances. No more Mr. Nice Guy. This is winner take all. The NBA finals continue on ABC and
- [00:58]
Brianna Lennon
the ESPN app foreign.
- [01:09]
Rob Fleischman
Welcome back to Northern Disclosure. We're happy you're here. My beautiful co host Janine Turner is with me and we're, we're excited to be here again. We love that you guys watch the show again. Always hit that like and subscribe button and, and give us your comments. We love reading them. We love the specificity of, I mean, what people get from this. It means a lot to us because the show means a lot to us. And Jeanine, how you doing?
- [01:40]
Janine Turner
I'm fine and dandy. It's springtime in Texas, so everything's blooming.
- [01:47]
Rob Fleischman
Yeah. Well, you look very spring, like I do.
- [01:50]
Janine Turner
I kind of have on my black spaghetti strap. I guess this would be. This would be sort of the Elaine dress. Right. For that episode when I had to wear those black spaghetti straps like this.
- [01:57]
Rob Fleischman
That's right. It was Elaine.
- [02:00]
Janine Turner
But yeah, it's good. It's good to be. We do love doing this and spread the word. Also share. That's always fun to do, too, because a lot of people we find are huge fans. They'll. They'll stop and say, oh, my God, I love the show. And we'll say, well, we're doing a podcast. Oh, I didn't know anything about it. So I think there are a lot of people out there that maybe aren't on social media or don't catch it at the right time. So share.
- [02:21]
Rob Fleischman
That's a great idea. Yeah, please, please share it because, because, because I feel like people that, that watch the show would, would get something from this. This is really. It's. It's called Thanksgiving. It was season four, episode eight, directed by Michael Fresco yet again. And, and David Asal. And we got Anthony Edwards back again. Mike with playing Mike Monroe. And you have really fun scenes with him. I like this episode. There was something. There was something kind of melancholy about it and, and poignant. It was. It had some darkness to it, which I liked, and it didn't shy away from it. You. It's. It's. It's fascinating, you know, the way Thanksgiving is. Is celebrated in the native culture versus how it is in the, you know, Anglo culture. And, you know, that kind of contrast creates a nice show and everyone's story. I think your story with Mike is interesting. I love. I love these moments you have. You know, you're so someone who.
- [03:31]
Wil Wheaton
So.
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Rob Fleischman
Your character so wants love, I think, yourself as well, but your character, Maggie, so wants love. And then when you have the potential of it with Mike, the look on your face is just so open and hopeful. You know, you're just so wanting this to be something.
- [03:51]
Janine Turner
You know, you see the vulnerable side of her.
- [03:54]
Rob Fleischman
You see the vulnerable side of her. You know, she's also dresses a little different. She's got this sports coat on, you know, which is a nice change. And, And. And Chris dealing, you know, with the past and. And, you know, it's. It's. It's an episode that deals kind of with the silver lining, you know, of where we are in life, you know, finding the positives. I think Joel has to learn that. I think, you know, Maggie goes through that finding, you know, something with Mike and then accepting what his. Who he is, and. And then finding. Finding hope again, one that he's leaving,
- [04:30]
Janine Turner
that he may be leaving. And that. That was a really look too, which I think for a millisecond, there were some tears there. We'll talk to our guest about that today, but they don't stay on it long. But that she might be losing it did deal with the melancholy aspects of holiday and what it means to everybody. And I think one of my favorite lines was when you're under the desk. And I tell you what, Elaine was really great, you know, when you left the show, I wanted Elaine to be Marilyn, to be the Doctor.
- [05:02]
Rob Fleischman
That would have been a great idea.
- [05:04]
Janine Turner
Don't bring the. That. Don't try to duplicate. Just let. Let her be the Doctor. But nevertheless, that scene when. When you're under the desk and she looks down at you and she says, hope you have no hope. And I feel this show is about how we all hit those black holes and craters and down times and. And holidays especially, bring back so many memories, good and bad. And it's. How do we pull ourselves together to.
- [05:30]
Brianna Lennon
To get through it?
- [05:33]
Janine Turner
And all the triggers. It brings so many triggers. And then, of course, you. The double layer of. You had to spend an entirely.
- [05:41]
Rob Fleischman
Another year. Another year there, right?
- [05:44]
Janine Turner
Which you did beautifully, by the way. It was really great to be able to see you just in that, in that kind of depressive mode. And you played it genuinely and honestly. You did a wonderful job with it.
- [05:55]
Rob Fleischman
But what's interesting. Thank you. What's interesting is that I did the math here, right? So if Joel gets a year added onto his original four year contract, giving him five years, he, he, that means he's. And he's been there. He now owes three years and nine months, he says, which means that in the three, you know, three and a quarter seasons that the show has been on, he's only been there for a year and three months.
- [06:25]
Janine Turner
We call that creative license.
- [06:27]
Rob Fleischman
But I think it's interesting that he, you know, that he's been there and this, this is kind of implied that it's his first Thanksgiving, but he would have been there for Thanksgiving noneth. The show works and we have a cool guest. We're so excited. Who was one of the editors. You know, we had basically three editors and, and she did amazing work over so many episodes and she has an incredible career after that.
- [06:56]
Janine Turner
I called her to, to book her for the show and my goodness, she had so many stories. I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. This is going to be a terrific episode. I believe.
- [07:07]
Rob Fleischman
So I'll just throw out some of her cool credits and then we'll, we'll bring her out. So it. She was, there's a movie thriller that she's a producer on. She was a co producer on the Legion, Queen of the South. She was an editor. Doubt she was an editor. Mind Games, Army Wives, how to live with your Parents, Necessary Roughness, which I directed three episodes of. I don't know if she direct. I don't think she edited mine, but maybe she did. And Crossing Jordan, Gray's Anatomy. It just goes on and on and on and on.
- [07:43]
Janine Turner
Huff.
- [07:44]
Rob Fleischman
A series I loved so, so many, so much Northern Exposure stuff. But I guess without further ado, should we bring her out? Janine?
- [07:55]
Janine Turner
Yes. Yes. There she is.
- [07:57]
Rob Fleischman
Brianna Lennon.
- [07:59]
Brianna Lennon
Hello.
- [08:00]
Rob Fleischman
Thank you for coming.
- [08:01]
Brianna Lennon
Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun.
- [08:05]
Rob Fleischman
What are all those awards over your show, over your right shoulder?
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Brianna Lennon
Those are the, the American Cinema Editors Eddie awards. The big one was for Northern Exposure. That was for Kaddish for Uncle Manny.
- [08:24]
Rob Fleischman
Oh, that's such a great episode. Oh my God, you did such great work on that.
- [08:28]
Brianna Lennon
Which I shared with Sharon Silverman, who you worked with Rob on other show
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Rob Fleischman
I did on, on the Fosters.
- [08:40]
Brianna Lennon
Yes. And the top ones are Northern Exposure. And third, Rock from the Sun. Those are the nominations.
- [08:48]
Janine Turner
I love third, Rock from the Sun. I love that show.
- [08:51]
Brianna Lennon
I did, too. I love John Lithgow.
- [08:54]
Janine Turner
I do, too. I was a big fan. I would. I actually sent them fan letters because I worked with John Lithgow in Lithgow and Cliffhanger. And they sent back my dog. My baby was My daughter was only about a year. They sent back onesies, you know, third. They sent me a little gift pack. It was fun. But, yeah, that was a great episode. Well, congratulations on all those awards.
- [09:14]
Brianna Lennon
Thank you. And then two Emmy nominations for Northern Exposure. That show just meant the world to me. It was the best material to edit. And a challenge.
- [09:32]
Rob Fleischman
Yeah. What was the challenge?
- [09:34]
Brianna Lennon
I don't know how well it was explained to the actors or not, but we actually had two scripts for each episode. So we had the script that you shot beautifully. And this has no reflection on performance. You guys were perfect. What was interesting, what was happening behind the scenes? We would screen the cuts and then Josh Brann, our showrunner, would watch the show and he would continue thinking. It was like being able to be in a sandbox and continue to play. He would continue thinking, oh, you know, it would be great if Maggie said this line and it would be great if Joel said this.
- [10:33]
Rob Fleischman
Right. That explains why we had, you know, we talk about. We lament the fact that we had a lot of post dialogue added and which is not unusual, except that we. You could tell they were doing rewrite, that it was rewriting, they were changing the thoughts, the way people behaved and stuff.
- [10:50]
Brianna Lennon
I joke, but it was so many lines, as, you know, because you experienced it, that it literally came out like another script. I mean, it was. And Josh thought that way he would see something and immediately he would conjure, you know, oh, you know, we need to bring out more of this empathy or we need to bring out. And the only way to do that is to have extra lines. But what it meant for the editors is that we had to manipulate the visual to cover those lines because they weren't spoken on the camera. And we had to do it so that you wouldn't realize that these additional lines were thrown in.
- [11:49]
Rob Fleischman
Right. Yeah. And look to the. I mean, first of all, I think a piece is never done right. So the luxury of being able to constantly evolve it through post is a great thing. Think there were times where the audience did notice. You know, I think you. There were places where it was. There was. It was ham fisted a little bit. But in the broad. In the broad scope of things it clearly worked. And I really admire Josh for his tenacity and, you know, commitment to seeing something through. Because a lot of times people think, you know, that, you know, okay, that's what we got. We'll just make Put it out and go on to the next one. But his passion.
- [12:31]
Janine Turner
His passion.
- [12:31]
Rob Fleischman
His passion. Yeah, that's a good way to say it.
- [12:34]
Brianna Lennon
I subsequently never really worked with anybody who worked that way. There was one time when all the editors, independently were flown out to Jamaica where Josh was producing a show called Going to Extremes.
- [12:58]
Rob Fleischman
Right.
- [12:58]
Wil Wheaton
I remember.
- [12:59]
Brianna Lennon
Which I believe only had maybe one season.
- [13:03]
Rob Fleischman
It was a similar premise. It was Fish out of Water Doctors.
- [13:06]
Brianna Lennon
So I flew out with all the dailies of Northern Exposure. In those days, we had three quarter inch machine. Three quarter inch tapes. So they were heavy. And met with Josh at where he was staying and ran an episode of Northern Exposure. Well, the island lost electricity and everything. Everything went dark. I mean, pitch black dark. And I'm sitting in the room with Josh. The TV goes off, and Josh continues to give me notes. I can't even see my hands to write. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, it's playing in his head.
- [14:01]
Rob Fleischman
Amaz.
- [14:03]
Brianna Lennon
Yeah. And he. I mean, you know, coming up with, okay, we need to be on Maggie here. And we need. We need Joel to say this. And we need. And I'm like, oh, my God. I don't know. It's like. But that was the mind. That was his mind. But it did create a lot of extra work for the editors. I mean, we really had to finagle. But I gotta tell you guys, I don't know how you do this when you know the outcome of what's gonna happen to you in a story, how you do not flinch, especially when you're gonna be pelted with raw tomatoes.
- [14:46]
Rob Fleischman
It's hard that. I think that's the hardest thing in acting I can do. You know, I could cry about someone who died, or I can, you know, you know, save someone's life in a burning fire, or I can, you know, have a long soliloquy about some existential issue. But to walk in a room and be surprised is very hard. You know, like, if I have to walk in a room and act like there's a dead body there, and I, you know, that's. It's very hard. And, you know, they teach you things in class. It's all about, you know. You know, there's an exercise called the phone exercise, and it's famous from the studio system. They used to have the Actors do this where you. You have to pick up the phone, you know, and they're going to tell you your parent, you know, your father's dead or something. And so how do prepare for that? It's. You prepare the opposite. You prepare for the greatest phone calls going to come with the greatest thing. And you think about all the good things that are going to come and how it's going to change your life and you're going to get a job and it's going to pay you a million dollars and it's the girl you always wanted and you're going to get the new car. And then you pick up the phone and it's like, your father's dead. And it's like, oh, you know it. So that's. But it. But. But it's an interesting thing you make because I remember specifically shooting that tomato. You know, first of all, the tomato throwing is iconic. I don't know why, but it always comes up in feeds and stills. Whenever I go online, you know, and I'm looking for something about myself or something. The still from that of this tomato on my chest is always used. But I remember shooting it and I remember having to. If I did, I knew. I think I said, if we don't get it in the first few takes, it's gonna be hard. And then Cynthia had to do the thing. And I could tell from her, you know, that she. I think I even vaguely remember talking to her about it because it was so hard to do. But it's interesting that you make that point. But I just want to talk about something editing wise, which maybe you can remember the show, it opens with a cold opening, which is not. We don't do all the time. And it starts with me mid sentence saying. And to boot, there's the el Tryptophan, right? I'm talking about the Thanksgiving come up. But it's such a weird line no one would start a scene with. And to boot it, there's the L Tryptophan. Something must have been cut from the head of that scene because it's just. It's abrupt and. And it works, but it's. I could see where that was a. That was an editorial choice made after the fact.
- [17:22]
Brianna Lennon
I wish I could say I remember that scene. I mean, I remember what came before it.
- [17:31]
Rob Fleischman
But did it seem to you like that was an abrupt opening?
- [17:33]
Brianna Lennon
The whole attitude of Northern is that you just drop in on people. You know, you drop in on conversations and the moments in their lives. You don't have to lead into things like traditional storytelling.
- [17:58]
Rob Fleischman
When you're making something, whether it's a creative project or a business venture, there's always a moment right before you hit publish or go all in, where your brain just floods with questions. Will it really work? Will people actually see what you've spent so many weeks and months on? But on the other side of that doubt is usually something really worth it. Taking that leap can change everything, especially when you've got the right tools backing you up. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you're just just starting out or scaling up, they've got you covered. And everything lives in one place, like your inventory and analytics, so you're not bouncing between platforms trying to keep things running. Plus, Shopify makes it easy to create email and social media campaigns so you can connect with customers wherever they are. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com Northern go to shopify.com Northern that's shopify.com Northern this episode
- [19:05]
Janine Turner
is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips. That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online@statefarm.com like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started@redfin.com, own the dream. Did you say there's a place, Rob, where you can go get scripts? Cause, I mean, I know I have some in a trunk somewhere, but I think you. I didn't save all mine. I don't think I saved some favorites. But did you say there's a place? Cause I was thinking if we could look at the script, we would know.
- [20:15]
Rob Fleischman
Oh, that's a good idea. I have every script.
- [20:18]
Brianna Lennon
Oh, great.
- [20:19]
Janine Turner
Can you go out and get them somewhere? Didn't you say they're out there?
- [20:22]
Rob Fleischman
Yeah. Yeah, you can go online if you just look up Northern Exposure script. You can usually find them. They may not be the final draft. They may be, you know, but there's. They're out there.
- [20:32]
Janine Turner
The aspect about the show that was also amazing, Briana, was the parade, the Thanksgiving table, and Rob, I mean, the hair and makeup, the costumes, the parade, the decorations, the parade car. It was all there was. And the food, the amount of food and all of a city. I mean, it was quite the production.
- [21:03]
Rob Fleischman
Hats off to the art department again.
- [21:05]
Janine Turner
Well, and. And hair and makeup.
- [21:06]
Rob Fleischman
And hair and makeup, you're right. And costumes at the. At the. At the end, where the. They have the parade, which is beautifully done. Also, they had a huge extras budget because that was. There were a lot of people on that street, you know, and you got to give them credit for. For make it that. I think that's Northern Exposure at its best aesthetically, you know, that. That episode.
- [21:28]
Brianna Lennon
Can I tell you about the.
- [21:31]
Rob Fleischman
Yeah.
- [21:32]
Brianna Lennon
So, you know, Matt Nadella got thrown in jail, Little Mayberry RFD jail, because. Because the extras ran naked in front of the camera on spring break, which was my idea.
- [21:47]
Rob Fleischman
And I was next. They were coming to get me. They had. They had me. The Teamsters were guarding me in this in the little theater there because they were going to arrest me.
- [21:54]
Brianna Lennon
CBS made me raise the snow bank so that you just saw waist up of the men running past.
- [22:06]
Janine Turner
Now, I never knew that. Did you know that, Rob?
- [22:08]
Rob Fleischman
I did, yes. I mean, someone had. I think whoever it was, Cheryl or someone told us that that had happened.
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Janine Turner
How do you do that? Explain to the audience how you go in back then in the 90s and raise the snow. It's not like AI today or anything. How did you do that?
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Brianna Lennon
Back then? What we would do was it was soft. We did have software that was like Photoshop, in a sense. And we cut out the snow bank and then we added it to where the original snowbank was. And then we were able to blend it so that you didn't see where our actual parameters were. So we raised it up in order to get the show past broadcast standards and practices. But what was fun was the writers and Josh said, well, you know, we paid for this fire engine. We might as well use it. So that was cute, you know, that they brought it into the parade.
- [23:20]
Janine Turner
I didn't put two and two together watching the parade, did you, Rob? I didn't put two and two together. That about. That was the fire engine.
- [23:26]
Rob Fleischman
No, I didn't really. I didn't remember.
- [23:27]
Janine Turner
That's a great tidbit.
- [23:29]
Rob Fleischman
Brianna. What. What Else jumped out at the, in the episode. I mean, that, that dream sequence, yet again, we kind of stopped doing them and then, and then this one comes out with me dreaming the Sisyphus that I'm, you know, taking over for Sisyphus. It was, it was. I love those scenes. I love them. I think they give such insight to the characters and you get rolled.
- [23:51]
Janine Turner
Did a good job, Rob.
- [23:52]
Rob Fleischman
Right.
- [23:53]
Janine Turner
What. Explain to the audience what that was. Was that a paper mache type of thing that was really light?
- [23:59]
Rob Fleischman
It was a big, giant papier mache ball. So it didn't really hurt me at all. So I had to kind of fake like it was heavy and.
- [24:06]
Janine Turner
Well, you did a good job faking that it was heavy because I, I really bought it.
- [24:10]
Rob Fleischman
Thanks. I love the Sisyphus myth. I mean, I just, I find, you know, so much of life is, is like that. And I could see where Joel. But Joel. Joel's evolved in this episode on a couple levels. I was thinking that he's, you know, he starts out when he says that when he's talking to you about how much he loves Thanksgiving when Joel's talking to Maggie and he says, you know, he's so he loves it because it's non denominational. It's good for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Moonies. He says, you know, that's such a kind of evolved way for Joel to be thinking at this point.
- [24:45]
Janine Turner
It was beautiful at the end, I thought when she came back and said, well, the pumpkins. And you said, what do you mean pumpkins?
- [24:50]
Rob Fleischman
Well, that's the theme, I think, of the whole show is the silver lining, you know, that, that, that we find that, that, you know, and that's what Thanksgiving is. It's that for the, all the heartache, you know, throughout the year, you know, that, that we, we come together, we let down our, we let go of our differences in theory and we, we celebrate the, the, the pumpkins, the, the boon, the gift of eating.
- [25:14]
Janine Turner
And there was that sense of community at the end that we've all come together through our differences. And I think that that's a beautiful. And through all of our shared traumas and whatnot, that we've all come together at the end. What was that like to edit Brianna with those huge parade scenes and the feast?
- [25:35]
Brianna Lennon
The parade scenes are kind of choreographed. Not telling me who to cut to, but the thing I loved about the Feast is what editors do is we call it mining the nuggets. It's where you go through all the material and you pull out the golden nuggets. The expressions, the heart, the. When you are. Sometimes the actors aren't talking at that moment, but they're very present. And I pull those out and then I look for how they relate to the other characters or. I loved, as you said, the community at the very end with that feast. There was a lot of material, but there was a lot of great material. And people. I think people actually almost forgot they were on camera because they acted like they were enjoying the whole camaraderie of everybody sitting together at the table.
- [27:00]
Rob Fleischman
I think it's a good point you bring up, because I remember. I remember shooting those scenes. Jeanine, do you. You know, shooting those Thanksgiving scenes or shooting those community table scenes. The food was great. They got good food. So it was real. We could eat it. And. And none of us had a lot of. Usually in those scenes, didn't have a lot of dialogue. So we could just be present, as you say, and sit there and eat some good food and hang out with your friends. And we were. And it was always, you know, it was just a great experience. Usually toward the end of the week, I think we would shoot those. And I can see it on screen, too. There was something very, you know, just relaxed about it.
- [27:41]
Janine Turner
Well, it was easy for us. We just kind of showed up to that feast of, you know, it was props and hair and makeup and costume that did so much. And in those scenes and cinematography, I might add, you know, the whole crew coming together to make that work. And editing, obviously, in post, brings it together. And it was really, I thought, culture, really interesting to talk about the fact that you're not white. You know, you kept. Flashman. You kept talk.
- [28:05]
Rob Fleischman
That was fascinating, wasn't it? I love that. And Joel was so adamant about it. You know, he really stood behind that.
- [28:13]
Brianna Lennon
That's an interesting argument, Rob, with us being Jewish, you know, are we a race or are we a religion or are we. You know, I mean, we. You and I, have family that probably go back to Eastern Europe or for sure. Or, you know, way back. Is that. Are we. Are we a tribe?
- [28:37]
Rob Fleischman
It's a tribe. More than. I mean, technically, we're not a race. I know people refer to that, but we're not. Which is a very interesting point that Joel makes. You know, that, you know, we were not in the typical sense of being white. You know, we were not. It's interesting. I just love that he's so adamant about it, you know, that he aligns himself with the native culture.
- [29:00]
Brianna Lennon
We had discussions of that in. In the room. You know, the fact that Joel is so ins. Adamant and insistent. I'm not white.
- [29:12]
Rob Fleischman
Right.
- [29:12]
Brianna Lennon
Like, you know, and we were, you know, we talked about will that joke
- [29:16]
Rob Fleischman
go over, but I didn't think it was a joke. I didn't think he was Joe. I didn't think it was funny.
- [29:21]
Brianna Lennon
But not to Joel. But we, you know, we were. I guess maybe you have to understand that that has always been. Been a thought amongst Jewish people. Are we white? Are we tribal? Are we a race? Are we a religion? You know, it's. It's always been. That's why they put that in.
- [29:48]
Janine Turner
Did y' all notice that there wasn't a lot of music in this show? I was thinking something' different. Something's different. I thought there's not a lot of. I mean, like, there didn't seem, unless I missed it, to be a lot of. You know, usually Joe, Joel, Rob Fleischman has his own theme music and everything. There didn't seem to be a lot of music until the very end. Even when Chris is talking in the, in the. In his radio station. I just. There didn't seem. Did you notice that Brianna and Rob. There didn't seem to be a lot of music.
- [30:14]
Rob Fleischman
I didn't notice it, but now that you say it, I noticed something was different. I felt something different and now I didn't. I couldn't put my finger on it. But now you're, you're, you're, you're enlightening.
- [30:25]
Janine Turner
I wonder what that choice was. I wonder why.
- [30:28]
Brianna Lennon
I don't remember. I don't remember any discussions in that direction. But I'm sure, you know, Martin, Bruce Lee would know.
- [30:37]
Janine Turner
Yeah, it was just because I would be interesting to go back and watch it even again if we, if any of us had the time to do it. But I thought something's different. And usually music is a key part at the end. Of course, we had. What was the last song. It was Louis Armstrong.
- [30:50]
Rob Fleischman
Louis Armstrong doing Kander and Ab. Cabaret.
- [30:56]
Janine Turner
Cabaret, Right. Which is a cool choice. And then right before that was another song. But before that, we really didn't hear any music.
- [31:03]
Brianna Lennon
Maybe what they were leading to was the celebration at the end. But I, you know, I could see where there normally would have been music, especially under you, under Maggie's. Having to realize that this man that she likes so much is going to leave. And yet we didn't score it.
- [31:33]
Janine Turner
Yeah, I don't ever recall hearing a lot. Well, there was some music, classical music. I think when Mike Monroe first arrived.
- [31:38]
Rob Fleischman
There's something. There's something that was there was a theme for Joel that was. I don't know what the instrument was. Was kind of a winged. That sounds like feather on the roof. You're doing.
- [31:51]
Janine Turner
I.
- [32:00]
Rob Fleischman
But there was something. There was something a little bit there when Joe was in his melancholy. You know, he's so. What's. It's also amazing how abusive he was of his patients like that. They. He was so. I know he was just outright cruel. I was interested that he was awful. He was awful.
- [32:22]
Janine Turner
Yeah. Usually that's done in such a way that has some humor to it somehow, but there wasn't any humor in this. And it wasn't. It wasn't that. It was the way you played it. Rob. As much as there wasn't. Usually there's just a react. A bounce off. I don't know, something that's.
- [32:37]
Rob Fleischman
You're right. There was nothing to levitate to. To bring levity to it. It just was all kind of okay,
- [32:43]
Brianna Lennon
you know, I mean, the main marching orders were. Rob. I mean, Joel is devastated because of the contract being extended, and that is going to weigh on everything he says and every action he does from that point on. And even if it's not mentioned again, we've got to feel that heaviness that he is not going to be able to get out of there and go back to his life in New York. We had to always keep in mind he is not a happy camper. You know, he feels his world now is ending because he's stuck in purgatory, and so that we have to look for that.
- [33:37]
Rob Fleischman
But yet the episode is about. And I think it kind of plays out throughout the series after this is the silver lining of it, because despite Joel having all of that, you know, disheartening feelings that you're talking about, when he's walking in the parade at the end, he's there. You know, he could very easily have not shown up, but he's there and he's partaking and. And then when he sits down at the Thanksgiving, he's there again. So it's an interesting thing, I think, philosophically about life. You know, you. We want this to happen. We want that to happen. This is what we get. And I think the successful lives are the ones that say, okay, this is what I got. This is what my plate has. I'm going to eat this food and I'm going to enjoy it. And I think he does that to his credit, despite. Despite himself, you know, there's a part of him that would. That is, you know, doesn't want to go along with it. But he does, which is why he's an interesting character. Yeah.
- [34:38]
Brianna Lennon
Oh. He resigned himself to the. To the realities and then looked for joy. And that's what the party at the end, you're supposed to feel that, okay, he'll be all right. He's gonna find the joy in where he is at that point, and everyone
- [35:03]
Janine Turner
is having to do it. So you have the Native American culture who has decided, no matter the horrors that they experienced, are going to celebrate with white people in the bar, and so they're moving on. I think there's something about showing up. You're right, Rob. It's like life doesn't give us always what we want. We have to. We feel it. You feel it, which your character was able to do, but then you have to show up for life. You have a choice. I always think you have a choice. Am I going to go off the cliff, or am I going to stay on this side and show up for whatever life gives me? Because tomorrow is always a better day. But everyone is like, Christopher, Chris in the morning is having to show up. He was homesick, and he didn't have the home he wanted, and he was being triggered about his mother.
- [35:47]
Rob Fleischman
It was so sad. The thing when he talked about, like, he didn't have Thanksgiving, they would go into the garbage of the neighbor and get what they could. I mean, I. That was. That was interesting.
- [35:55]
Janine Turner
So he's having to show up. How many. I don't know. I've had holidays where I've had to show up, and I'm not happy with, you know, maybe where my life is at that moment or that point, and you get to get together and you're just. You know, you just have to. Okay, I just. I'm just gonna show up, you know, because 80% of success is just showing up. But, you know, Chris had his thing, and then Maggie, you know, Mike might be leaving, and Mike Monroe's got a health issue, and every. Who else had an issue? I guess it was mainly those. Those three.
- [36:21]
Rob Fleischman
What'd you say? Maggie might be leaving or Mike might be leaving?
- [36:24]
Janine Turner
No, no, Mike. Mike. Sorry, Mike. Maggie was feeling down because Mike might be leaving, but everyone just showed up anyway. And it seems to me that the turn for your happiness, for Fleischman's happiness, was once again, we talk about this a lot was when he got together with the community.
- [36:39]
Rob Fleischman
Right? No, just agreeing to. Agreeing to show up. You know, walking through the. Walking through the town.
- [36:45]
Janine Turner
And I heard you ad lib. I heard you ad lib and say something like, Mm, Good.
- [36:49]
Rob Fleischman
Yeah.
- [36:50]
Janine Turner
Which was kind of. Did you hear that, Brianna? Brianna? You probably put that in there.
- [36:53]
Brianna Lennon
Yeah.
- [36:54]
Janine Turner
Because I thought that shows us that he's starting to feel a little bit better.
- [36:58]
Rob Fleischman
Which, by the way, was probably real, because it was good. I remember that. I remember they went out of their way, the prop department credit to them, to give us really good food. And. And then we would be eating it, and then they'd. They'd say, okay, slow down, because we only have three drum legs left, or whatever.
- [37:13]
Janine Turner
That was a huge drum. And, you know, Mike. Mike Monroe decided to go for it, right? He took off the helmet. Everyone just decided to find some hope and joy in the moment and let all of these other things be bygones. And really, I think I awaken this morning. A lot of people have anxiety when they go to sleep. Other people have it when they wake up, you know, but it's like, okay, living in the moment is really all that we have. We go in our heads all these places, but the moments where the joy is if we can just shut the door on all this and if we can't, sometimes, you know, you need to ruminate and create and all that, but have visions and vision and aspects of where you want your life to go. I'm not saying that, but it's the moment. You know, Rob, you do a lot of meditation too, that this is where the joy is. This is all I can. All I can really deal with today is right now. So everyone is just very present at the end. They're present in the moment.
- [38:05]
Rob Fleischman
There's a great notion that. I don't know who said it, but that the present is the point in which time touches eternity. So if you're present, if you're in the moment, as you're talking, Janine, you are part of the forever, because the present is the time where we're connected to everything.
- [38:28]
Janine Turner
That's cool.
- [38:29]
Brianna Lennon
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Rob Fleischman
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Brianna Lennon
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Rob Fleischman
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Brianna Lennon
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- [39:06]
Rob Fleischman
Get business done with the new American Express graphite Business Cash Unlimited card with unlimited 2% cash back on all eligible purchases. Unlimited 5% cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business. You'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of $1,500 cash back after you spend $50,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership terms. Apply. Learn more at go MX Graphite. Brianna, what else can you tell us about either, either the rest of this episode that jumped out at you or in general?
- [39:50]
Brianna Lennon
Well, you were talking about how your character gets, in a sense, used to where you're living and the people you're with. I found that after Kaddish Frankel, Manny, I think at that point is when your character realizes that this town is for you. They're rooting for you. They're there to support you. You.
- [40:17]
Janine Turner
And
- [40:20]
Brianna Lennon
so I think then later with this Thanksgiving episode, you're primed to understand that you were kind of going off the rails because that was a little bit more self serving. But now you realize these people are in your corner. You know, they really, they really love you and support you as Joel. So I think that was like, I remember talking to Josh about how that was a beautiful full circle. It's almost like the character is going to stop fighting so hard to leave, to get out. Not that you're going to totally do that, but that's your beginning, beginning to understand that this community is there for you.
- [41:17]
Rob Fleischman
Which, as you say, I think paves the way for his eventual kind of spiritual evolution. Because at the end of the series, I love the journey Joel takes. I love where he goes emotionally and spiritually, that he kind of accepts, you know, he's transformed. And I think these episodes at this point in kind of the midway point are, are, are a harbinger of what's coming.
- [41:42]
Brianna Lennon
Yes.
- [41:43]
Rob Fleischman
Without even knowing because nobody knew how the show was going to end at this point. You know, they just, it was just kind of, that's the amazing thing about television series. You know, you, you, every season you kind of plot it out, but once you get into the details, things take turns.
- [41:57]
Janine Turner
And every season they were like, is Rob going to leave this season? Is this the season Rob is leaving?
- [42:02]
Rob Fleischman
No, no, I don't think that's the case. I think there were two, there were two times we, well, we talked about
- [42:08]
Janine Turner
the fact that they brought Mike Monro thought maybe you were leaving. And our, our director who came on said that watch out, it's, you know, he's renegotiating. So I, I think there were times when, when they Were unsure. It must be hard as writers not to kind of know where. Where to go, if things are going to be resolved or not. But, you know, what I noticed about Thanksgiving was where are the parents? Now that I'm a parent, where are the mothers and the fathers and. And the aunts and the uncles and.
- [42:35]
Rob Fleischman
What do you mean? They're all. The whole town? Is that.
- [42:37]
Janine Turner
No, no. No mothers with there. No. Like Joel's mother. My mother.
- [42:41]
Rob Fleischman
Oh, well.
- [42:41]
Janine Turner
Oh, oh, oh.
- [42:42]
Rob Fleischman
I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying.
- [42:44]
Janine Turner
Cole's mother. You know, no mother, no family. It's interesting to me always that we. Now they do bring them in. You know, they. These mothers and fathers come and visit, and then we have those fabulous little episodes of getting in some fordium aspects of our characters. But it isn't. I thought it was interesting. No. No family. No family. They were each other's family.
- [43:05]
Rob Fleischman
You're right. That's a good point, Janine, because then. Because usually you would think all of them, like, especially Joel and Maggie, would fl. You know, you'd fly to Michigan and I'd fly to New York to go visit. That'd be the perfect time. But you don't. So I think it's kind of saying, well, this is their fan. You know, this is their new family. You know, again, I think speaking to the theme of this is where you are, this is your life, you know, take responsibility for it.
- [43:26]
Brianna Lennon
Exactly.
- [43:27]
Janine Turner
And, Brianna, I. We can close with the story that you told me where we were doing so much looping in the beginning, I guess. I don't know if it's the first date. Second eight, when it was. And I called you from my car saying, is it me? It's like, why.
- [43:42]
Brianna Lennon
Why do I.
- [43:43]
Janine Turner
You should tell that story.
- [43:44]
Brianna Lennon
I was on the 405. And those were the days when we had car phones, you know, phones that were in the car. You couldn't take them out. And the phone rings, and it's one of the assistants in the office, and she says, brianna, Janine's on the phone. She needs to speak to you. And she's very upset. And I thought, me, me. And so I pick it up. Hello? And you said, why are you changing my lines? Why are you asking. Why are you asking me to do all this other acting? And I'm like, oh, my God, does that mean that Josh never told the actors what was going on? And I waited a little while, and then I said, janine, you know what? Let me explain one thing, and that is this has Nothing to do with performance. Performance, nothing. It's the way Josh's mind works. He thinks of things after the fact.
- [44:54]
Rob Fleischman
He's still writing.
- [44:56]
Brianna Lennon
He's still writing. And it's a lot to ask the actors to put themselves once you're away from the environment and you're onto another episode. To then go back in a booth and recreate those moments is a lot to ask the actors. But you were really upset. And then I thought, quick, quick, quick. What do you and Janine have in common? Horses. So I said, jeanine, how's your horse? My horse is doing well. Oh, that's so sweet.
- [45:40]
Janine Turner
I just. I didn't remember that story, you know, I didn't remember it at all. And I thought, how interesting that I would have called you. It's interesting. I guess I called and they connect me with you. Maybe, you know, they could. Someone they could get ahold of. But I love that story because I just think it shows passion on all sides. You know, it shows. And compassion on your side. But it just showed our passion. Rob had the same passion. We had the same passion as, wait, I'm doing the best work. Work I really, really care about, and why am I having to do this? And it is interesting if it wasn't explained to us.
- [46:12]
Rob Fleischman
And I can argue that that tension that you're talking about between the different approaches is what really make the show special. Because if you weren't as passionate as you were Janine, and determined, you know, it would be different if it was just someone kind of waiting to be told what to do. It's not as interesting as the tension between what you thought and what they thought and then what end up being the final product. It's that. It's that synergy, right? That. That. That alchemy.
- [46:48]
Brianna Lennon
Can I also mention that what was in what I find with subsequent shows that I've worked on, there seems to be this misunderstanding that editors are like the Antichrist. You know, I mean, they're gonna. They're gonna find our worst performances. They're not gonna care. You know, that kind of thing. Thing. And we talked about that. And also I was telling Josh in the very beginning, I got a little confused on the perspective of how the bar laid out. So he said, how about if we send the editors up to Seattle, up to Bellevue, and they get a chance to walk the sets and understand the direction of where people are coming, coming in and out, but also get a chance to meet and sit with the actors and get them to understand that we are your team. We are on your team and we fight for you. I mean, sometimes we have to fight against the directors. Even because we're permanent, we're there through every episode. Directors are transitory. They come in and out. And so we hear what the show. Showrunners and the right. We work symbiotically with the writers. And I love it when I am located where the writers are because I get to work with them. I'm kind of the final rewrite. So I want to make sure that I am getting all the nuggets, all the nuances of every performance of every story, make sure the arcs are correct. And also if we need to plant something ahead of time because there's going to be a payoff at the end, got to make sure that's understandable to the viewer.
- [49:03]
Rob Fleischman
I can't even. I can count on maybe two fingers the times I've walked in to see an assembly of something and thought it's a mess. Editors are amazing how they pull, pull, you know, because, you know, we. We do things different intentionally sometimes, you know, we will try, you know, try things so many different ways. And then the. The editor has to choose 1. 1. What works in terms of. And all these variables that get going to play, you know, how it's going to affect future episodes, future seasons, this episode. And I think we were so blessed. But I'm. I'm curious, like, I'm always curious. How did you come to the show? Do you remember Member? How did you come to be hired?
- [49:41]
Brianna Lennon
I know that Josh knew of me. This is kind of embarrassing. We had a blind date way before.
- [49:50]
Rob Fleischman
Oh, wow, you're kidding.
- [49:54]
Brianna Lennon
There's a kid.
- [49:55]
Rob Fleischman
He almost.
- [49:56]
Brianna Lennon
He almost blew my interview because I was interviewing with Cheryl and I don't know if it was somebody else. And he walked in and he went, oh, I went out with her. And then he walked away.
- [50:13]
Rob Fleischman
Oh, man.
- [50:17]
Brianna Lennon
And I thought, oh, no, he's. That's going to blow it for me. But I think it was based on my previous shows that I had worked on prior to Northern Exposure that they hired me. And I so clicked. Oh, I did know Jeff Saganski, too.
- [50:42]
Rob Fleischman
Would he weigh in on that kind of decision?
- [50:45]
Brianna Lennon
No, but he put in a good word for me, President of cbs.
- [50:48]
Janine Turner
So everybody knows he was. He was the chief, you know, the head of CBS at the time.
- [50:52]
Brianna Lennon
He was the hero, really, because I know you. We premiered and we ran over a summer, and it was a short, very, very short amount of shows. And so we did not get the viewership over that summer, that first summer. And CBS was like, oh, well, then, you know, cancel. And Jeff was the miracle worker. He said, no, this show needs to have a chance. It's a wonderful quirky, it's exactly what people need. And they did it. And sure enough, it became huge.
- [51:37]
Janine Turner
I mean, I always really had. It had a nice working relationship with Jeff Zaganski. I don't know where he is now. Does anybody know where he is?
- [51:45]
Rob Fleischman
He's running different companies. Actually. He's come back. He had media companies and I think he's running some big studio or network, I forget which, but.
- [51:56]
Janine Turner
Oh, interesting. Well, thank you, Jeff Saganski for Kids keeping it going. And you know, Brianna, I will just say, I know we need to close here, but I'll just say thank you for your beautiful editing because you did a marvelous, beautiful job. And editing can make or break not only every aspect of it. Lighting, directing, props, an actor's career, you know, the story of the show. And we've all, all of us have worked many aspects of this, of this, of the production elements. And I've edited. And the difference that can be made, I mean, with a little lift of an eye or just that little magical second. It's. I remember on Cliffhanger there was an Ed, the choreographer was talking about. He wanted to wait until I did something a little, you know, before he cut out. And we've heard that from you and the other editors. It's just the magic is made there. And for those who don't maybe really understand, I think we take it for granted that people understand. The editors are handed all of Joel's close ups and wide shots and Fleischmann's, you know, and then all of Maggie's wide shots and clothes and they all. And then all the others that are in the scene and they all have to be put together like a puzzle piece. And it's not an easy thing to do, but it's really, it's so pivotal in the success of the show because it's. The way that it's put together really sort of makes or breaks it. So, Brianna, you're very deserving of all those awards behind you.
- [53:21]
Rob Fleischman
I think that's a great. That's a perfect place for us to wrap it up, I think.
- [53:26]
Brianna Lennon
Thank you so much for your kind words. And I really am glad the, the art and craft of editing is appreciated.
- [53:36]
Rob Fleischman
Perhaps you'll come back and do another show for us down the line.
- [53:39]
Brianna Lennon
I would love, I would come out of retirement for Northern Exposure or for you guys.
- [53:45]
Janine Turner
The nice thing to say is just that everybody seems to feel that way about the show.
- [53:50]
Rob Fleischman
You're right.
- [53:51]
Janine Turner
That's really nice. Well, thank you, Rob. Thank you, Brianna. Thank you everyone for watching and we'll see you again next week. And now we're gonna wrap up from o' Connell and Fleischman.
- [54:04]
Rob Fleischman
Actually, it should be. It should be Fleischman o' Connell Dreams.
- [54:09]
Janine Turner
Fleischman. Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen
- [54:18]
Rob Fleischman
Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.
- [54:36]
Wil Wheaton
Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage in Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories. And I I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it. So I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up where he left off and to my delight, he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love, pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine, Lightspeed on Spec, and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me.