S4E9: Do the Right Thing" with Barbara Brown

Summary

Northern Disclosure: S4E9 "Do the Right Thing" with Barbara Brown – Episode Summary

Overview This episode of Northern Disclosure is a nostalgic, insightful dive into Northern Exposure’s Season 4, Episode 9, "Do the Right Thing." Hosts (and show leads) Rob Morrow and Janine Turner reminisce about the episode’s major themes—personal legacy, mortality, and striving for self-improvement—while welcoming special guest Barbara "Babs" Brown, the acclaimed script supervisor (and now director), who shares unique behind-the-scenes perspectives from her tenure on the show. The conversation weaves together analysis of the episode, memories of guest stars, the artistry behind the scenes, and reflections on evolving as an artist and human. The tone is warm, candid, and imbued with the series’ trademark mix of wit and heart.

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Main Episode Theme

• Self-reflection and Legacy: The hosts and guest analyze how the episode tackles mortality, the desire to leave a meaningful legacy, and the tension between striving to be better while accepting one’s core characteristics.
• Human Struggle with Doing the Right Thing: The discussion highlights the ongoing human challenge inherent in the episode title, with characters wrestling with guilt, redemption, and living authentically.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Writing: Diane Frolov & Andrew Schneider

• Turner and Morrow praise the script’s depth, especially in the nuanced writing for female characters by the male-female writing duo.
• "There's just no way around it...when their name's on a script you know, it's going to be good." – Rob Morrow [02:30]
• Brown highlights how Andy and Diane could write "expansive existential themes" without pretension. [10:40]

2. Maggie’s Emotional Journey

• Janine Turner details her favorite Maggie performance: playing layered emotions around anger and vulnerability, particularly the finale with the mechanic and the multicolored robe.
  • "It was funny and yet it was so intense and so honest and rooted in something so real…" – Janine Turner [04:24]

3. Guest Stars & Casting Memories

• The hosts reflect on working with David Hemmings (the KGB agent), noting his impact and "Burton-esque voice."
• John Hawkes, then a young actor, is lauded for his sincerity and later success.
  • "He was such a baby in this." – Rob Morrow re: John Hawkes [06:13]
• The show attracted increasingly notable guest actors as its reputation grew.

4. Character Parallels & Mortality

• Maurice and Maggie both face their mortality and legacies, sparking self-appraisal.
• Candid reflections from the co-hosts about maturing and how age shifts one’s approach to anger and self-improvement.
  • "That's called maturity." – Rob Morrow [07:30]
  • "There is something to be said about when death is at your door, how you reappraise everything." – Janine Turner [07:50]

5. Thematic Structure of the Episode

• Morrow recaps the plot (08:00): a KGB agent comes to Sicily, Maurice confronts his secrets, Maggie is confronted with a fellow pilot's death, and the Brick faces a health inspection.
• Discussion about the creative liberties taken with accents and guest star casting (David Hemmings).
  • "Suspension of reality. Creative license." – Janine Turner [09:27]

6. Babs Brown and Script Supervision

• Brown explains the crucial, diplomatic role of a script supervisor—ensuring continuity, supporting actors, managing different personalities, and knowing when to communicate corrections on lines.
  • "I should go into diplomacy...because of all the different personalities." – Babs Brown [14:19]
• Rob and Janine recall relying on Babs not just for technical support, but also emotional and creative counsel as the series evolved.
  • "Depending on you more creatively, not just for continuity..." – Rob Morrow [15:28]

7. Legacy and the Philosophical Heart of the Show

• Brown and the hosts agree that beneath the quirky surface, Northern Exposure always grappled deeply with big, existential human questions.
  • "Under the guise of...this quirky Alaskan town...are all these really deep, meaningful human emotions..." – Babs Brown [21:33]
  • "It's a show about legacy, isn't it?" – Janine Turner [22:49]

8. Behind the Scenes: Technical Mastery and Collaboration

• Brown elaborates on the script supervisor’s technical side: continuity of props, eyelines, best takes, and close collaboration with DPs and operators.
  • "If you're not afraid to collaborate..." – Janine Turner [33:50]
• Anecdotes of shooting logistical challenges, including "geometric nightmares" in snowy, late-night settings. [34:40]

9. Women in Directing, Then and Now

• Discussion of the paucity of female directors in the series (only 2 out of 110 episodes), contrasted with Ryan Murphy’s (Glee, American Horror Story) later efforts to nurture women directors like Babs.
  • "That's pretty slim odds." – Rob Morrow [37:41]
  • "He’s very nurturing of women directors." – Rob Morrow on Ryan Murphy [36:49]

10. The Hard Work and Family of Making the Show

• Brown shares memories of the grueling hours (16-18 hour days), the camaraderie, and how the crew became a family who supported her through new motherhood.
  • "I could not have had you and worked on a TV show if it wasn't for the support of my coworkers..." – Babs Brown [43:14]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Every gesture, putting another person, you know, is a nail in your coffin." – Rob Morrow, quoting Fleischman [04:47]
• "Striving to be better, but accepting that you can't change a leopard's spots." – Janine Turner [24:02]
• "In that moment, Joel was unstuck just by hearing that Yeghini's voice." – Babs Brown [25:23]
• "Actors are in the moment, they're playing tough scenes...My job is to figure out how Rob Morrow works or Janine Turner works and adjust my style to fit that." – Babs Brown [15:28]
• "There’s never been another Babs." – Janine Turner [48:08]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:05] — Praise for episode writers Diane Frolov & Andrew Schneider
• [04:23–05:26] — Janine on Maggie’s layered performance & the famous robe scene
• [06:13–06:27] — Reflections on guest stars David Hemmings & John Hawkes
• [07:30–08:35] — Hosts on aging, mortality, and reappraising life
• [08:40–09:39] — Plot summary & discussion on creative liberties with casting
• [10:37–11:37] — Introduction of Barbara "Babs" Brown & her perspective
• [14:19–15:28] — Babs on the diplomacy and adaptability needed in script supervision
• [19:56–20:59] — The writing process and absence of a traditional writer’s room
• [21:33–23:11] — Deep dive into the episode’s themes of legacy and self-assessment
• [24:30–25:23] — Joel’s moment of connection with his heritage
• [29:17–33:50] — Babs details the breadth of the script supervisor’s responsibilities
• [36:05–37:41] — Discussion of directing opportunities for women, then and now
• [43:14–45:00] — The show's intense work demands and sense of family
• [46:05–48:08] — Reflecting on never being bored by Northern Exposure and closing tributes to Babs

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is a rich tapestry of humor, affection, and thoughtful analysis, mirroring Northern Exposure’s balance of comedy and philosophy. Listeners are treated to unique perspectives both from in front of and behind the camera, an exploration of TV craft, and heartfelt stories that reveal why the series still resonates decades later. The episode is a celebration of creative collaboration, personal growth, and the enduring ties forged in the icy wilds of Cicely, Alaska.

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Next week: The hosts return to discuss Season 4, Episode 10.

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(End of Summary)

Transcript

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[Rob Morrow]

That's right. Good morning. How you doing?

[Janine Turner]

Hi Rob. Good to see you.

[Rob Morrow]

Nice to see you. You look great. What do you look very summery or something like you're been outside a lot.

[Janine Turner]

These are my two new summery dresses and I am spending a lot of time outside so I have a lot of chigger bites and the mosquitoes are out. So it's pretty wild around here in the country.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, good to see you. I'm excited about this episode. It was fun to watch this episode.

[Janine Turner]

It was fun to watch. I liked it. Who wrote it? I know that our beloved Nick Mark directed it.

[Rob Morrow]

Diane and Andy.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, of course. It just had that feel. It, didn't it?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

I love when they write for Maggie. I don't know how you feel about Fleischman, but the way they write for Maggie just. It just rolls off the tongue and there's that sort of layering of emotions with their works where I have to kind against what I'm doing.

[Rob Morrow]

I think they write well for everybody. I like, I like always when their name's on a script you know, it's going to be good. It's just. There's just no way around it. But that said, we. All our writers were good, but they particular wrote, I think probably the most.

[Janine Turner]

They do have their different tenors, right? They're different sort of. Well, like writers. Writers all have sort of their own method of operation. And so it's not that they were better than other writers. All of our writers we appreciate and respect, but they did have a certain sort of niche.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, it's also. It's a good point you make because it might be that they were a male female couple, you know, writing together. And so I always think, you know, when I have a project that is very. That has a lot of women, you know, stuff I. And it's written by a male writer, you know, and it gets into deep kind of female issues. I always suggest maybe bringing on a female writer to do a pass because there's, you know, there's just stuff that the genders don't know about each other. And so maybe that gives Andy and Diane their distinction is that they. They're, you know. Cause I agree with you. I thought your stuff had a nice. Nice nuances and, you know, and it didn't beat around the bush, you know, with. With what was going on in your psyche as Joel reduces you, right.

[Janine Turner]

Which. Which was just great. Cause she kind of comes onto you and, you know, attacks you a little bit and then you do. You give it back at the end. But in. Or of course, in that wonderful way. But I really enjoyed. I watched this performance. It's one of my favorite of Maggie's because of the duality of the layers where I was to be one thing, but you could see underneath I was really feeling something else. And it lended itself to comedy. And that ending scene. I sometimes look at my. Look at myself in the mirror. Could I ever repeat that? Because when I walk out at the end in that robe, by the way, I realized I must have a multicolored dark colored robe. Not one of those white ones that I had on in the first couple of seasons.

[Rob Morrow]

It's a great robe, by the way.

[Janine Turner]

It was a great robe. It was a great robe. And it makes you look thinner. But I walked down to the mechanic. I'm like, stop that. Stop that. And at the end, I pick up the wrench and I walk toward him. And it was funny and yet it was so intense and so honest and rooted in something so real. And I thought, could I do that again? I mean. Cause it was kind of. It's hard to do that. I think it's really hard to have all those different layers going on at the same time.

[Rob Morrow]

But you have such a sweet look on your face when you walk back to the house and you're like, oh, yeah. Cause, you know, Fleischman says to you, he says the cornerstone of your psyche is the unfocused, searing rage. I don't think I know a more negative, reproachful individual. And then the look on your face when I say every good deed, every. Every gesture, putting another person, you know, is. Is a nail in your coffin. And you're like, that's so funny.

[Janine Turner]

Well, you finally get to say that to me because I'm always saying it to you. Something happens, Flashman gets angry. Something happens, Flashman gets angry. So I'm always giving it to you. And she also does that at the opening. She's letting you have it like Flash when you're being nice. It's kind of weird.

[Rob Morrow]

They're two sides of the same coin. There's no doubt about it. So we have so. And by the way, you know, you know, David Hemings is the main guest star of this show. I mean, we have two great. David Hemings, famous from the Antonioni film Blowout, was, you know, a huge star in the 60s and 70s. An amazing actor. I was. So when he came to the show, I just felt like, wow, this is the big time to get someone like him. And his voice, he had that kind of Burton esque voice and he's passed away since. But also John Hawks, young John Hawks, almost unrecognizable as the health inspector. Such a great actor and a really nice guy. And he was such a baby in this.

[Janine Turner]

He was very pointed, he was very direct, very innocent in his thinking, but he played it perfectly. And I thought, what was the actor's name who played the Russian?

[Rob Morrow]

That's David Hemmings.

[Janine Turner]

David. Yeah. David was awesome. It's just like having Valerie Perrine on as well. I think we have a good kind of. Our show was at the peak, so we were getting these really great guest stars. And even that, you know, I was thinking about the other day, you know, Barry Corbin, sometimes Maurice is one note. A lot of times it's just one note. And I thought, I wonder if you got every get tired of doing that. But this had a little more. This had more layers for him in the writing. I thought, and I loved at the end when John Corbett, you realize he's the one that wrote the letter about MacArthur.

[Rob Morrow]

You know, what would you say That, I mean, the themes going on are similar. You and Maurice's theme are similar. Kind of dealing with your mortality, I guess, you know, what your life has added up to.

[Janine Turner]

But don't you think about that. I was thinking about that. Don't you think about that today, how different you and I are in our 20s. And then now, I mean, I find myself doing that a lot where my knee jerk reaction wants to come up. The, the kind of impulses to be passionate or to be that. And then I go, nope, nope, I'm gonna step back, I'm gonna be nice.

[Rob Morrow]

That's called maturity.

[Janine Turner]

I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it this way, I'm gonna say it that way. And I think it's because we are closer to our mortality. I mean, we're, we're, you know, hopeful, 80, 90, but we have another 30 years or so. But I mean, we're in our 60s, so you do have a different slant on it. And I could really. There is something to be said about when death is at your door, how you reappraise everything.

[Rob Morrow]

Absolutely. I mean, you know, for sure. I mean, and that's what else is the purpose of life, is to not to, you know, to continue to individuate yourself, to discover yourself. I feel like I'm constantly still revealing who I really am, you know, and so I think this show kind of addresses that in a nice way. So let me read the little synopsis of the episode for our audience out there. And again, we love your responses when you write to us. We mainly read them on YouTube, but this episode called do the Right Thing, as janine said, Season 4, episode 9, a semi retired KGB agent arrives in Sicily and reveals to Maurice that he wants divulged some classified information. That Maurice wants divulge some classified information. Holling finds a great nuisance in healthcare inspector who gives him some instructions to clean the brick. Maggie worries about her mortality when a fellow pilot is killed on a trip she was to take, whilst the brick is the subject of a public health inspection. And I just want to point out that it's interesting that David Hemings plays a KGB agent. And the convention of old Hollywood was that when you were dealing with Russians in movies, they always had a British accent, you know, and so it's funny that Northern Exposure because we have fair amount of Russian storylines on our show and they usually have accents or they even speak Russian, but for some reason I don't know whether they wanted David Hemings and they just said, let's go with the old convention, or they. They wrote it that way.

[Janine Turner]

But we suspended reality. It was suspension of reality. Create a creative license. Or maybe, I don't know, maybe he was from London and moved to Russia and was working as a double agent or something.

[Rob Morrow]

Maybe. But our guest today is someone.

[Janine Turner]

And I do too.

[Rob Morrow]

When we just checked in with her at the top of the show, I just saw her face again and just remembered how much. What a sweet, kind, smart. You know, she was really kind of one of the hearts of the show. She was there from, you know, for so long and was always right there. She was the script supervisor. And that entailed keeping track of everything that was going on as well as making sure that we knew our, you know, we're on point with our dialogue. And also, she just had a spirit, you know, she really loved the show and she's one. She's gone on to become a very established director. She's directed episodes, many episodes for 10 years now. P. Valley, 911, a lot of Ryan Murphy stuff, something called Big Shot. But she's. She's just great. So without further ado, I think we'll bring out Barbs, as we call her. Babra. Babs Brown.

[Babs Brown]

Babs.

[Janine Turner]

Babs. Hello.

[Rob Morrow]

Hey, Babs.

[Babs Brown]

Oh, how fun. How fun. I was just laughing just hearing you guys talk about the writing. And I think you're right about when it was Andy and Diane writing that, because they were our couple, that they could write both genders or even somebody non gendered. And their writing was always eased, really excited, expansive existential themes. And I think that this episode is true of that as well.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, for sure. And erudite. You know, they just had great references and yet, you know, they can do it high. It wasn't pretentious. It never felt like they were academic, you know, izing. They were just. They just were able to blend the high and the low in a very, very nice way.

[Janine Turner]

You notice what was different about this episode is there were. There were. There were not a lot of scenes of John Corbett in. In the. In philosophizing. But there is that scene where I walk in and admit that I stole his John Coltrane album.

[Rob Morrow]

And he's so pissed off, he's like, get out of here. Can you handle that? Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

Pulls the shade down. And I just want. Before we get into all of. All of your. Your amazing contribution to the show. What would we do without you? Rob, I just wanted to note because we were talking about your theme music last week. We were talking about it and I joked that it sounded kind of like the Fiddler on the Roof. Did you notice your theme music? And it defin. Does sound a lot like Fiddler on the Roof.

[Rob Morrow]

That's funny. I didn't catch it. But now. Now that you're.

[Janine Turner]

Did not catch your theme music.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, I watched. No, I mean, I didn't pay attention. But now that you're saying it, I can hear it in my head that. Especially at the end, which is a beautiful ending. The ep, once again ending of Northern Exposures are always great. And this particular one was lovely. And that's where that music was playing.

[Janine Turner]

Am I doing it right?

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, that's similar, but it's that. I don't know what that instrument is. I want to say it's a klezmar. What's a klezmar?

[Babs Brown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

It's a kind of wind instrument or something that. That. That has that sound.

[Janine Turner]

It's a lot of fun. We all had our theme music. Well, Babs. Oh, my gosh. How many years were you with us?

[Babs Brown]

All the years, except for, I think the first eight before it really got picked up as a show.

[Janine Turner]

So you were with us for six. Five of the six seasons? Technically, yes. And. Oh, my gosh. And for everyone who's. Who's listening or watching to understand, you are on set all the time. You know, actors can go take a break and they can go do this and that. You never leave. You're sitting there. You witnessed it all, the good and the bad and the ugly.

[Rob Morrow]

It's such a tricky job. Aside from being able to. You're responsible for every little thing in the frame. But each actor is a unique. Has a unique approach. And so, for instance, you know, if I'm going up on a line, if I, meaning I don't know my next line. Some people want to be told that line. You know, some people don't want to be told and want to find it. And knowing when to interrupt and when to suggest something, when to go up to them between takes and say, you know, you're not saying that right. How to say it. Because certain people get upset if they're told what you know. And so that's a kind of a. What do you call it? Bedside manner that's so essential. Which I guess would serve you really well and obviously has as a director.

[Babs Brown]

Yeah. And I. I always joke supervisor. I'd say, wow, if this doesn't work out, I should go into diplomacy because in the diplomatic corps, because of all the different personalities. But I think you're right, Rob, you just And I have the same approach as a director. It's like your role is so important that it can't be about imposing your. The way you work onto actors. Because actors are in the moment, they're playing tough scenes, they're grappling with their own memories of whatever is touched off, whatever the scene is touched. So I really approached the same thing as a director that I felt like is my job to figure out how Rob Morrow works or Janine Turner works and adjust my style to fit that. So all the actors are so different. I mean, all the actors I've. I've worked with, they're just so, so different. Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

And it's interesting that I'm thinking now what's coming back to me in terms of the memories, because Janine and I talk a lot about things we don't remember. Then all of a sudden our memories jarred and then a whole bunch of memories. But I'm remembering that kind of evolution of your presence on the set because at first you were more quiet and kind of stay, but by the end of the series, you know, you were so like. I remember I'm having flashes of kind of saying, you know, like maybe disagreeing with a guest director who's coming in for one week and you're, you know, we're all there forever and maybe walking to you and saying, what do you think I should do? And you'd say, yeah, I think that's better, you know, whatever. And you know, kind of depending on you more creatively, not just for, you know, continuity.

[Babs Brown]

No, I think that's very true. That really develops towards, I would say, the last couple of seasons because it's hard on an established family. And again, as a director, I try to be super conscious that I am the guest in the house and we know how guests should behave, but some people, some of our directors would come almost with the opposite. And so. So it was very challenging for us as a family to shift to maybe it was a really big personality or whatever it was. So, yeah, I do recall that happening as well in like the last couple of seasons. And I think too I was. The producers knew I wanted to move in that direction and so things were being opened up for me or I was being included in some writing discussions.

[Rob Morrow]

You didn't ever direct on the show, did you?

[Babs Brown]

No, but I was. The last season I went with Michael Fresco to LA to watch the whole editing process and the scoring process. And so I got a real post production experience, quite remember what happened. The show just ended or something. But I didn't get the opportunity.

[Janine Turner]

Well, you know, it's interesting because we. We all have our different ways of working. And I don't know if you remember, but when I would go up on a. When, When I would. Let's say the take was finished and a line, you would say, oh, you know the line, Janine, the line is actually this. Because they cared about that on Northern Exposure. I've done many shows since where they don't, you know, they don't really care. They want you to improv, but. And of course we cared about. The writing was just so incredibly, you know, profound and articulate and creative. But I would go up to you and say, I don't know if you remember this. I would say, what did I say? In other words, do you remember that?

[Babs Brown]

It just sounds like you and it sounds like our relationship. So I. But I don't have, like, a specific memory.

[Janine Turner]

What I'm talking about is, you know, I needed to hear. Let's say it's. It's C spot run. Okay? And I said, see spot sit. And you would say, janine, the. The. The line is this. But I didn't remember what I'd said that was incorrect. So in order to piece it back, I. I didn't know. I didn't say C spot run. I thought I said C spot run. So I needed to know from you, what did I say? And you said. You said C spot. You said, see spot sit. I'm like, oh, okay. And then I could. I could move it around in my mind, but often very my. I needed to know what I said incorrectly and then register that. Oh, that's where my brain was going now. And now this is the actual. I need to replace it. So I would always go up to you. I just remember. I remember. I just remember saying, what did I say? Because, you know, what. What did I say that was incorrect? So I could then recycle it in my brain. So we all. That's one of our different ways of working, I guess. And I was always coming from the lines from a very emotional standpoint first. Rob was always coming from the lines from a very intellectual standpoint. And he. All that medical dialogue. And our words were so delicious. I mean, the vocabulary was so rich. I got a little disappointed toward the end because we started saying things like stuff. And, huh. I'm like, that's just not Northern Exposure. It was, you know, always, always, you know, the most vile, odious, pernicious waste of corporal souls. I mean, all the words were really. I would. I used to say you know, college words. They were really big. They were. It was written in an exquisite sort of way.

[Rob Morrow]

Babs, did you. Did you were able to watch this episod?

[Babs Brown]

Yes, I did. I did. And I actually watched it with a. Who also worked on northern exposure, Pat McKee. So he and his wife Sally came and we watched it together, which was so much fun to watch it with another person who was there.

[Janine Turner]

Isn't it great to revisit it? It's so. Isn't it amazing? And it's just so. It's just a special to see you again.

[Rob Morrow]

What kind of came back to you as you were watching anything?

[Babs Brown]

Well, I. Again, kind of what I led into is just thinking about how they. I don't. Because I don't know as much about that writing room as other writers rooms.

[Rob Morrow]

They never had a writer's room. No, they were just kind of, you know, John. They would come up with. I guess they would pitch outlines. Josh and John were still there, or Josh was anyway. And John would sign off on it outline, then they'd go write it.

[Babs Brown]

Then they'd.

[Rob Morrow]

They'd. You know, there was no room that was unique about Exposure, but for this

[Babs Brown]

one, Diane and Andy were in charge at this time, weren't they?

[Rob Morrow]

I think more so. But we're not at. They did. Josh and John were there till 66 episodes, and we're not there yet.

[Janine Turner]

But I do believe they stepped. Sorry to interrupt. But I do believe they stepped in because John and Josh were off doing. There are all their other shows.

[Rob Morrow]

They were definitely moving toward that. But I. My guess is at this point, Josh is still pretty hands on.

[Babs Brown]

I think the stuff that the show did so well was under the guise of, you know, this quirky Alaskan town with these quirky characters are all these really deep, meaningful human emotions that people feel. And to put everything under the title of do the right Thing, which is something human beings struggle with every day of their lives and every interaction of their lives. And we're not really conscious until, like Maurice, where you might feel the guilt later, but you don't. You have a feeling, but you don't know what that name is. Until, of course, John's character was always the pseudo therapist for the town and put a name on it. And then also knew how to solve his guilt by letting him know, even though it was made up, that everybody makes mistakes, even MacArthur, which ended up

[Janine Turner]

not being even true. He just made it up. But that's what was so fabulous. But I think it's a show about legacy, isn't It.

[Babs Brown]

It.

[Janine Turner]

Maurice's legacy, Maggie's legacy. She was like, wait, am I. If. If I'm getting ready to die, I'm not gonna have time to redeem myself? And is everybody gonna remember me as being, you know, strident and not caring? And I really need to be more caring. And I. I wanna have a legacy that's left that means something. And I think that that filtered into your character, Rob, because of your legacy with your heritage.

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, that's right. You're right. I forgot about that.

[Janine Turner]

Related to Fleischman. And then you were connecting with someone that. That left a legacy as. So it's all about how do we choose to live our lives? And as you say, Barbara, that. That really is a beautiful thing. Cause we were. We were assessing ourselves, and that's. That's a good thing.

[Rob Morrow]

But yet it also, in a typical Northern Exposure way, doesn't get saccharine about it. Like, for instance, that moment where you have your. The kind of the climax of your story, Janine, where you yell at the mechanic, and then. And then you feel good. All of a sudden, it's like, you know, it's such an interesting thing because we all are, or not all of us, but many of us are dedicated to improving as we go through this journey. But at a certain point, who you are is who you are, you know, and acceptance is kind of the key.

[Janine Turner]

Striving to be better, but accepting that you can't change a leopard's spots. Right.

[Rob Morrow]

So how do you exactly.

[Janine Turner]

And to not say, because I deal with this all the time with. With my faith, like, oh, I really didn't. You know, I wasn't. I didn't do that well today. And you can just beat yourself up to oblivion, and you finally say, I'm doing the best I can, and tomorrow I can be better. But it's the fact that it's the assessment, I think. But to think about their legacy. Yeah, I think we should all think about that before we're gonna die. You know, how did I live my life?

[Rob Morrow]

Well, that's why we're doing the podcast in a way that it's so tender, that moment at the end, and so beautifully shot. You know where Joel's in the office there, and he just wants to hear the voice of this guy. It's such an interesting. And the guy doesn't speak English, and Joel doesn't speak Hebrew, and. And yet there's a. I don't know, it's like a kind of a transcendent connection or something. Mystical connection or something. Somehow it soothes Joel, you know.

[Babs Brown]

Yeah, well, and I think, you know, because Joel's overarching, you know, episode to episode is I'm stuck and I'm stuck is I'm stuck as Joel being Joel, that doesn't work all the time. But I'm also physically stuck in this place.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

[Babs Brown]

Being able to just reach out to, like you said, Janine, someone from his own, his own people could for that moment, feel unstuck. And you. I could really feel it. I get in a little goosebumps right now. I could really feel it, Rob, on your face, that in that moment, Joel was unstuck just by hearing that Yeghini's voice.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, that's also, you know, where the show, you know, we look at the corollaries between our characters and ourselves and, you know, there were so many. I'm so different from Joel in many ways, and I'm so similar to him in many ways. But, you know, having Eastern European roots and ancestors that were, you know, in the Holocaust and, you know, and that and then some got to Israel and, you know, having that, that kind of connection to talk about legacy, you know, to my past, I could relate. So I'm sure I can see it on my face. I wasn't act. I mean, I was acting, but I was connected to something personal for sure.

[Babs Brown]

Yeah.

[Rob Morrow]

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[Janine Turner]

We're somewhere in the Gulf of Thailand.

[Rob Morrow]

Getting us out of here should be your focus. I'm your boss. You work for me.

[Janine Turner]

We're not in the office anymore.

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[Rob Morrow]

You're so fired.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, am I? No. Help is coming.

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[Janine Turner]

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[Janine Turner]

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[Babs Brown]

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[Rob Morrow]

So how about David Hemmings? Do you remember anything about him?

[Babs Brown]

I do. I mean, I was. I was very much like you in that. I. Well, first of all, Northern Exposure was my very first TV show as a script supervisor. I had never done TV before. I had barely been a script supervisor for, I don't know, like two or three years.

[Rob Morrow]

Right. What'd you do? Do you do commercials?

[Babs Brown]

Yeah, commercials and corporate. And honestly, at that time there wasn't really like a program that got you work. So nobody really wants to hire an inexperienced script supervisor because it's such a hard job and they need somebody with experience. So it took a while. Once I got training and I did do, I was doing commercials and stuff like that. So the show just kind of. I just literally got a call when the first cryptid riser had to leave. But I was always in awe of our guests. I mean, when I read the script where mum and shots was coming to Roslyn and we did that whole sequence. I mean, so David Hemmings, you're just like. And this is before, like, IMDb, but you're just trying to do your research on. Oh, my God, he's just been in so many great things. And the guest actors were always, almost always, so available to be kind of interviewed by crew people. What was it like to work on that and this? And so, yeah, it was really something. And, you know, John Hawks just had something. Even though he was fairly new. Well, like, he had a presence. So it was of no surprise to me when he went on.

[Rob Morrow]

He's almost run. He's almost unrecognizable to me now. You know, he's much thinner

[Babs Brown]

and.

[Rob Morrow]

And, you know, he plays different characters like he's. He's just such a good actor.

[Janine Turner]

He was very, very focused and. And most honest in his. In his delivery and, you know, as I'm thinking about this, though, it's interesting for everyone listening. It's script supervisor. It's not just about telling us our lines, you know what I mean? Or keeping that continuity. Well, it is the other thing. It's about the continuity of forks and plates. And not only that, you know, camera angles, are they looking left to right or right to left? That. That's huge. To make sure everyone's looking the right way. And I'm sure there are times, you know, we had great cinematographers and directors and whatnot, but it's also. You're the one there. Somebody spaces out to say, wait, we need. They need to look left to right. You're on those over the shoulder news. So there's so many technical talk about those other aspects of what you're responsible. You're responsible for marketing the best takes. You know, the ones that the directors like. You write notes about this, the director wants this and that, and you have to deal with camera angles. There's so many other things that you do. It's not just about feeding actors lines. And I think everyone might be interested in hearing about that a little bit.

[Babs Brown]

Yeah, that. And again, because I really looked at the crew as a family. We just worked really, really well together. And so especially worked well together with both Frank and Gordon. I think Jim Heyman was gone by the time I came to the show. He just did the first eight.

[Janine Turner]

First 16.

[Babs Brown]

Oh, 16. Okay, then maybe I came after 16. I. Well, I kind of remember working with him and I've. I've worked with Jim since then, but, yeah, just having a really good relationship with the DPs because. Because they're, you know, not only are they thinking about where to put the camera, but the lighting. And, you know, we had great operators. Dave was an amazing operator. So Frank could, you know, focus on lighting and Dave could, you know, place the camera. But then he might say to me, I feel like I should be over a little bit more for the eyeline. And so we, you know, so we just had an open conversation about things like that. Nobody felt like, oh, you know, I'm not very good at my job, because I got to ask if I should

[Janine Turner]

not to be afraid of collaboration. You're confident if you're not afraid to collaborate.

[Babs Brown]

Yeah. So you're right, Janine. I did a lot of. Of that, A lot of the technical stuff. We. I remember once, Frank and I, we were trying to shoot two cameras in the snow. We had two people up on horses. It was a geometrical nightmare, let's just say the geometry of that scene. And we crossed the cameras and then we were looking at the monitors going, that doesn't work. They're working. Looking in this exact same direction. So we uncross them, but that. Anyway, so we would just, you know, it's like three o' clock in the morning and two feet of snow. And that's a good.

[Rob Morrow]

Should be a chapter in your book.

[Babs Brown]

Yeah, yeah, it will be. But when I mentor script supervisors, I. I always say, get as much technical knowledge as you can. You'll be surprised how much it will help you. Someone might rely on you. And, you know, we were shooting on film, and so now we're eons from that with the digital world.

[Rob Morrow]

What was the first thing you directed?

[Babs Brown]

The first thing I directed was a competition episode of Glee.

[Rob Morrow]

And how did you get. How did you get it?

[Babs Brown]

Well, so when I was. I had been script surviving for ryan for around nine or 10 years on different projects. I did the pilot for Glee, and so when the show got picked up, I did the first couple of episodes and then I, I, as you know, I had Fiona on the. While we were doing Northern Exposure, and I just couldn't be in la. I needed to be home. So the scripts advisor that they hired, Carol and I would kind of alternate. I would come down and a lot of that was. She was also trying to pursue directing and helping with keeping up my health insurance and stuff like that.

[Rob Morrow]

It's nice they gave you a shot. They, you know, they offered me an episode of Glee to direct, and I was committed to Foster's. I was directing a bunch of the show and I was so bummed because I. That was so up my alley. And they never. You know, how when you turn down people in show business, a lot of times that's the last time you hear from them. And although he hired me as an actor years later, but. But it's. I love how he, you know, is nurturing, supportive of women.

[Janine Turner]

We need. We need to talk about who he is.

[Rob Morrow]

Ryan Murphy.

[Janine Turner]

Okay, well, I don't think we said the whole name, and I don't even really know who Ryan Murphy is, so.

[Rob Morrow]

Ryan Murphy is one of the. Is, you know, arguably probably the. One of the biggest producers of television working today.

[Janine Turner]

Okay, well, it's just good for our audience to know that.

[Rob Morrow]

No, absolutely, you're right.

[Wil Wheaton]

He.

[Janine Turner]

He was Glee. Glee was his show.

[Rob Morrow]

Lee was his show. And Nip Tuck and all these American horrors. And I did something with him called the people versus O.J. simpson. And he just did the. The John F. Kennedy Story, the Love Story, which was Bruce brilliant, but he's very nurturing of women directors. Jeanine. And so I was thinking, like, when I asked Babs if she had directed, because I knew she was moving toward that, but I couldn't remember if they gave her a shot. And we only had, I think, one female director in the entire hundred.

[Janine Turner]

No, no, no, no. We had about two. Two or three.

[Rob Morrow]

Who.

[Janine Turner]

Well, I know we've had two so far.

[Babs Brown]

We had Joan Tewksbury.

[Rob Morrow]

That's the one I remember.

[Babs Brown]

And Joe. Joanna. No, we. I'm sorry, her name escapes me at the moment.

[Rob Morrow]

Well, I'm glad there was two. But that's. That's pretty. That's pretty slim odds.

[Janine Turner]

Two out of 110 episodes. But. But, you know, I wanted to. Just before we have to wrap, there was something I'm always talking about, talk about lighting, that drives me nuts. And it's. It's these period pieces especially. But even in reality, even in modern. Modern, where if someone's in front of a window. Window, right. If they happen to have their back to the window, and the way that their face. When the turnaround is going to be dark and the person that's looking at the window, their face is going to be lit. And I hate that because in the. The person that's sitting in front of the window, their face is dark and you can't see anything. You can't see anything. Any. They're emoting. You can't understand their feelings. Their eyes, you know, the windows of the soul. But in this one, Maurice was sitting in front of a window, and it was full blast. Light. And yet Frank Prinzie lit him. So you did not lo the effect of the window shining through, but you could still see his face. And he was lit beautifully, like Jewel. And everyone was lit beautifully in that. I thought, aha. It can be done.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, you just have to fill it. I think you make the artistic choice if you want a silhouette or you just fill it with light. You can, you can do it. You just have to balance it.

[Janine Turner]

So many of them today, they don't even bother to light the actor's face if they're sitting in front of a window. But, but, but Frank did it and that's the scene where he has the first scene with Hemmings, you know that that's in his, in his actual house, if anyone wants to go back and see what I was talking about. But it can it done. It can be done. Are you living in Seattle still?

[Babs Brown]

I am, yeah, still in Seattle. I was, you know, toying with the idea of moving every once in a while over the years, but once I started directing, I was directing all over the country, so it didn't matter if I lived in LA or not because I did have work in la, but I was working in New York and Atlanta and New Mexico.

[Rob Morrow]

I'm see how old, how old, Fiona?

[Babs Brown]

31.

[Rob Morrow]

And what does she do?

[Babs Brown]

So I'm going to be a little bit of a proud mama here. So she went into environmental science and her studies in college and then came out, worked at a lab as a receptionist and met her business partner and close friend now Gemma, and they started their own company and she was 24, but they both kept working for other companies. And so now flash forward, they're in a big lab, they've got a number of products, they have like eight employees. And I just spoke to her this morning. She was driving to work and so we had a quick catch up. But yeah, she's, she's just, you know, I think she saw two parents who were freelance. So, you know, you kind of make your own career sort of a thing. And they, they saw, you know, kind of a niche with these products and, and so, yeah, so they do. Their lab does third party testing.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, they're entrepreneurs.

[Babs Brown]

Yes, very much. Good for her.

[Rob Morrow]

That's amazing.

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[Rob Morrow]

What else came back when we you to come do this? Like where you think, did you start to flash on like memories or anything about this episode or just the series in general?

[Babs Brown]

Like I think just the series in general. I was thinking about how when I first started it, because I had never done series before and I said this is way too hard. These hours are so long. It was before the show was organized, so we were working, working 16, 17 hours a day. And I remember I'd never had a job where I worked till like 7 or 8 o' clock on Saturday morning and I had started at 6 o' clock on Friday night, so. So that I was recalling all of that and then, but then how much I loved working on Northern Exposure. So much. Just really look, no matter how tired I was, was really looking forward to going to work. If you remember Bob Beaumont, one of our key grips, he used to fall asleep on the back of the dolly. I mean it would be like joking but right? You know, everybody was just fun and funny and we all had our moments and we just gave each other space. But yeah, I just had such a good time and I Fiona finds this hard to believe, but I said to her I could not have had you and worked on a TV show if it wasn't for the support of my co workers, including the cast and the producers who, if I had to take a break and go nurse, know, Mike Fresco or someone would step and go hand me the clipboard or whatever. There was no it was a whole family affair. And I know a lot of women who haven't had that experience, right. They just had to quit or that kind of thing. So that always warms warms me to think about the support that I got when I had her down to the transportation department calling it the Milk Run when they would run my milk from Roslyn Redmond where my husband would pick it up. Amazing to get, you know, to feed Fiona. So yeah, just so many Great memories. So many great directors that I got close with that I was able to see later on other shows and, and, and work for as a director, in some cases, pieces. Yeah, just such great memories.

[Janine Turner]

It was new for all of us. We were all on the rise, you know, and we were, we were, we were sort of floating to the top on the, on this, on this TV show that was just absolutely never boring. All the scripts were always interesting. There was always something, some great location or we were doing a flashback. It was just never, ever boring. It was rich and challenging. And I mean, I've worked on a lot of other things that we all have, but nothing has been. It was as stimulating as this show because it was, it was diverse and creative in a way that nothing else has ever been. I mean, I can't imagine. I'm not sure I'd turn it down if they offered it to me, but I can't imagine doing a csi, you know, where I just walk around going, oh, here's the.

[Rob Morrow]

I just can't imagine I did one. I mean, they did their best to try to make it interesting, but it did get to me at a certain point. I was like, I'd be going into the scene and thinking, thinking, wait, did I shoot the guy or did I shoot him? Did I pull out the gun? Did I not pull out the gun? Cause I was doing the same thing in so many scenes that it would be hard to remember because it did 118 episodes. And, you know, we were constantly.

[Janine Turner]

Is that numbers? Are you talking about numbers?

[Rob Morrow]

Oh, it's numbers, yeah.

[Janine Turner]

There's a monotony.

[Rob Morrow]

There's a monotony.

[Janine Turner]

Which did not happen on Northern Exposure ever.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, it didn't.

[Janine Turner]

Until I was put into a washroom. I was not very happy with the laundry room.

[Babs Brown]

What episode was that?

[Janine Turner]

They created a laundry room on the fourth season down the line. And we, we had all those scenes in the laundry room. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. But that's for another day. But yeah, it was always creative. Never boring. Never, never boring at all. So. Well, my goodness. And the hours. I know we need to close, but I'll just say the hours. That's so true. The hours. And you were there the entire time. We so times would. We were there a lot of 18 hour days, all, you know, 12 hour days. All kinds of. Through all kinds of weather. Freezing cold, but the snow coming down and how cold we all were. But you were there all the time. What a, What a, What a work ethic, you know, Tenacity I have these

[Rob Morrow]

images rushing into my head now of like you of us being out, as you say, at 3am with 3ft of snow, sitting in a director's chair, you know, in a down jacket and a hat, sipping soup between takes. You know, that was steam teaming up.

[Babs Brown]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Or. Or even. It's just like the. The episode where we flung the piano. Like Bill, it's. You're a person who's coming from England to build this life size tribuchet and we're gonna fling two pianos. Anyway, that was. That day was amazing.

[Rob Morrow]

We realized we used it in a second episode, which is, I think, how they amortized the cost of it because they were like, we built this thing for 20k or what? And we got to use.

[Babs Brown]

It was way more than that.

[Rob Morrow]

Was it?

[Janine Turner]

Talk about diverse. We had the fire. We had to have a. You know, we were up late. Really, really. We were up very, very late into the night when the fire for when the house burns down. And then they had to create a burnt. I mean, it was just always just fabulous short stories. They should put them together. You know, they should put all the scripts together as short stories, shouldn't they?

[Rob Morrow]

That's an interesting idea.

[Janine Turner]

Well, you are. You were the best at your job. The best. I hate to just say script supervisor because you were so much more than that. That with whom I've ever worked, there's never been another Babs. And thank you for all those years of your. Your sweet, beautiful spirit, but also your intellectualism and your. Your talent and your dedication to the job and, and getting us through mounds and mounds of dialogue and, and just being a joy on the set.

[Rob Morrow]

Yeah, I think you got me through a lot. I think emotionally even, you know, just. I remember having just, you know, intimate chats with you about life and, you know, and whatever I was dealing with, with, with success and fame and. And you were always a great resource.

[Babs Brown]

Thanks. I. It really means a lot to me because I feel very close to you too, in a way that old friends can, where you don't see each other for a long time, but then you're like, oh, yeah, it's Rob. This is Janine. This is like. This is all the same. It's so great. That's true.

[Janine Turner]

That's a test of a really good friend you can pick up years later. And it's. You're just so. Almost right back. Right back to where you were. Well, thank you for coming on and congratulations on all your successes and what a fabulous show. Really terrific show. Thank you. Very much.

[Babs Brown]

Yeah, thank you guys.

[Janine Turner]

So we will see you next week. We're signing off and next week will be season four, Episode ten. So for today, thanks for joining o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Rob Morrow]

Actually, it should be Fleischman o'. Connell.

[Janine Turner]

In your dreams, Fleischman. Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson

[Babs Brown]

and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

[Wil Wheaton]

Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek. When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories. And I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it. So I asked him if I could take a shot at my picking up where he left off and to my delight, he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love, pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine, Lightspeed on Spec, and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Storytime with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts, I hope you'll join me.