023 - Barack, Street Life & P**$y Rap: Why Black Culture Needs a Reset w/ Leron Gaskins

Summary

Podcast Summary: Not All Hood (NAH) with Malcolm-Jamal Warner & Candace Kelley
Episode 023 - "Barack, Street Life & P$y Rap: Why Black Culture Needs a Reset w/ Leron Gaskins"
Release Date: April 15, 2025**

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Introduction: Challenging Street Culture's Influence

In Episode 023 of the Not All Hood (NAH) podcast, Malcolm-Jamal Warner and Candace Kelley engage in a thought-provoking discussion with guest Leron Gaskins about the pervasive influence of street culture on Black America. They explore how media glorification of negative aspects often overshadows the community's positive achievements and discuss the necessity of resetting certain cultural narratives to foster growth and empowerment within the Black community.

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1. Glorification of Street Culture vs. Celebrating Positive Achievements

The conversation kicks off with Laurent (Leron) addressing the recent media attention surrounding rapper Young Thug's release from incarceration. He criticizes the tendency to sensationalize criminal behavior over commendable accomplishments within the community.

Laurent [12:00]: "We always glorify the street culture but never glorify the good that we do."

Candace echoes this sentiment, highlighting how positive milestones, such as scholarships earned by young Black women, often receive less attention compared to the glorification of figures associated with street life.

Candace [18:00]: "If a young black girl gets a whole scholarship, we don't say, 'Oh, good job.' We hype about Thug."

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2. Breaking Away from Negative Traditions

The trio delves into specific traditions within Black culture that may be detrimental. Laurent emphasizes the need to move away from certain food traditions linked to health issues, sharing a personal anecdote about adopting a vegan lifestyle after his ex-fiancé's father succumbed to cancer exacerbated by traditional Southern cuisine.

Laurent [13:11]: "The food that you guys are eating is the reason that we are here. So we need to break away from this tradition."

Candace adds that breaking these traditions is challenging due to deep-rooted family and cultural ties.

Candace [14:49]: "It's hard to be in a family situation, especially when you're talking about tradition and breaking them."

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3. The Impact of Hip Hop and Music on Black Youth

A significant portion of the discussion centers around hip hop's role in shaping perceptions and behaviors among Black youth. Malcolm expresses concern over how aggressive and destructive themes in modern rap music might influence young listeners, potentially leading to real-world violence.

Malcolm [24:41]: "So much of the soundtrack of our young people's lives is this music that is predicated upon the death and destruction of our people."

Laurent agrees, noting that while earlier hip hop occasionally romanticized street life, today's music often blurs the line between artistic expression and real-life actions.

Laurent [19:02]: "We get paid more money to rap about the debauchery stuff. If you get into a business to make more money, why not do what the people were paying you to do?"

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4. Use and Implications of the N-Word

The conversation shifts to the controversial use of the N-word within the Black community and its broader societal implications. Malcolm argues that the term remains one of the few areas where Black individuals can assert a form of linguistic reappropriation, though he questions the depth of this ownership.

Malcolm [46:18]: "It's the only thing we can say. You can't say this word."

Candace counters by emphasizing the lack of true ownership over the term, highlighting the real-world repercussions for its use by non-Black individuals.

Candace [48:42]: "But that doesn't prove ownership or anything. Repercussions are there, that people should definitely be aware about whereof and exercise."

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5. Leadership and Representation in the Black Community

The panel discusses the role of leaders like Al Sharpton and Ben Crump in advocating for Black rights and addressing systemic issues. While acknowledging Sharpton's long-standing activism, they critique the commercialization and perceived ineffectiveness of contemporary leaders.

Candace [51:17]: "When we think about someone who rose to the cause... it's almost a niche market that really wasn't... But now people like Ben Crump are prominent, though their representations can be controversial."

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6. Stereotypes and Police Interactions

A poignant segment features Malcolm sharing his personal experiences with police stops, illustrating how stereotypes and preconceived notions impact Black individuals' interactions with law enforcement. Laurent provides a contrasting account from his time in New York, emphasizing the variability in such encounters.

Malcolm [60:00]: "He pulled me over... I got out the car and walk up to him... He knew I wasn't lying. All I could do was comply."

Laurent [57:27]: "He said, 'Oh, you go to the Hampton Inn. Oh, tell such and such and say hi.' And that was it."

Candace adds that while these experiences can vary, the overarching fear and anticipation of negative outcomes heavily influence Black individuals' behavior during such interactions.

Candace [58:05]: "When I'm stopped, it's not case by case. It's every case that came before me."

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7. Sexualization of Black Women and Body Autonomy

The panel addresses the sexualization of Black women's bodies in media and popular culture. Laurent criticizes the tendency to police Black women's bodies, using twerking as a primary example of how consensual self-expression is often misconstrued and judged.

Laurent [64:07]: "There are some women who would here back that ass up... Why do you need to do that when you hear that song?"

Candace defends the agency Black women have over their bodies, arguing that moves like twerking are forms of cultural and personal expression rather than solely sexual acts.

Candace [66:42]: "Why can't a woman move forward freely as she wants on the table? Because I can."

She emphasizes that the sexualization stems from external perceptions rather than the intentions of the women themselves.

Candace [69:18]: "Cause our daughters are watching... if you're shaking your ass, you can't just do that."

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8. The Need for Community Unity and Redefining Traditions

Towards the episode's conclusion, the hosts and Laurent discuss the fragmentation within the Black community and the loss of unified causes that once galvanized collective action. They stress the importance of redefining traditions and fostering unity to address both internal and external challenges effectively.

Candace [51:19]: "We are just not all fighting for the same cause anymore. Especially with social media, it's impossible to have a leader these days."

Laurent [51:34]: "We were harder on Obama than we were on Biden. When Biden said, 'If you don't know not to vote for me, then you're not black,' that's way more offensive."

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Conclusion: Advocating for a Cultural Reset

Episode 023 of Not All Hood (NAH) culminates in a call to action for the Black community to critically assess and reset certain cultural narratives. By addressing the glorification of negative street culture, challenging harmful stereotypes, and advocating for positive representation and unity, Malcolm, Candace, and Laurent aim to inspire meaningful change and empowerment within Black America.

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Notable Quotes:

• Laurent [12:00]: "We always glorify the street culture but never glorify the good that we do."
• Candace [18:00]: "If a young black girl gets a whole scholarship, we don't say, 'Oh, good job.' We hype about Thug."
• Malcolm [24:41]: "So much of the soundtrack of our young people's lives is this music that is predicated upon the death and destruction of our people."
• Laurent [46:18]: "It's the only thing we can say. You can't say this word."
• Candace [66:42]: "Why can't a woman move forward freely as she wants on the table? Because I can."

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Join the Conversation

Engage with Not All Hood (NAH) by subscribing, leaving comments, and following their discussions on social media platforms to stay informed and involved in ongoing conversations about Black culture and empowerment.

Transcript

[Malcolm]

If you could hear love, what would it sound like? Son, can we talk about your drinking? Yeah, Dad, I think we should. Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like. [e-mail] an OHA initiative. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace.

[Candace]

Last year I went through many different life changes.

[Laurent]

I needed to take a pause and.

[Candace]

Examine how I was feeling in the.

[Laurent]

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[Malcolm]

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[Laurent]

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[Candace]

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[Laurent]

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[Candace]

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[Malcolm]

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[Candace]

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[Malcolm]

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[Laurent]

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[Malcolm]

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[Laurent]

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[Malcolm]

SPACE80@talk space.com one of the things that.

[Laurent]

We need to break away from is street culture in our infatuation with street culture. So like just recently not showing you guys are gonna air this, but like young Thug just got free and everybody's oh, Thug is home. Thug is home. Like, but what did he do to get there? Let's talk about that. And not to mention we could amplify that. You know, Thug did whatever he did to get himself in that position, which I'm not sure if he's guilty or not. Like I don't know all the circumstances. I didn't follow the case. But it's like we always glorify the street culture but never glorify the good that we do.

[Candace]

Welcome to another episode of Not All Hood Black culture and traditions. What are they and are they good for the black community? Lauren Gaskins, host of the podcast Broken Traditions, says it's time for blacks to question some of the things about black culture, break free from some of those traditions and re examine if the narrative we are shaping could be hurting us. We went a few places with Laurent. From Soul food and Barack Obama to policing and twerking. We got it in. Did we disagree on some things? Many things. Oh, we sure did. But that's why this discussion had so much energy. Enjoy the conversation.

[Malcolm]

So, you know what I. I think I might do. I think.

[Candace]

Here we go. I'm a mind reader.

[Malcolm]

I think our thing should be. I think our thing should be starting our podcast with, like, what's good.

[Candace]

I think so. I like that, because I think we're.

[Malcolm]

Going to get into what's fucked up about the world and the country. So, like, let's start out with what's good.

[Candace]

I'm claiming the goodness out of what you just said, but yes. What's good?

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

What's good.

[Laurent]

I agree. Yeah. All right, Candace, now, why do you.

[Candace]

Always start with me?

[Laurent]

Because you are ladies first, MC Light.

[Candace]

You know what's good, Latifah.

[Malcolm]

Moni Love said it ladies first.

[Candace]

Just the holiday season, that's all. All the way into the new year, all the way, you know, to mlk. You know, I consider all of that. That's what's really good. It's the traditions that I'm looking forward to and being with family and prepping and doing all that. All of that is just a mood that I get into. I'm waiting for snow. I live in Jersey. I know all y' all ATL people. I'm waiting for all of that. I'm waiting for the deer to come out and be in the snow. I'm waiting for some shutdowns. I'm a Jersey girl, and that's. That's what's good.

[Malcolm]

Okay.

[Laurent]

What's good? I like traveling. Getting ready to travel for the holidays. Go back to New York, see my family, see my mom, my son, my brother, and just see some people I haven't seen in a while. Since March.

[Malcolm]

Since March.

[Laurent]

Since March. Yeah. So we went to. To Bahamas for my mom's. I ain't gonna say her age, but her birthday.

[Candace]

His mom will get you, huh? Yeah.

[Laurent]

So, like, my mom and my stepdaughter, they birthday a day apart, so we just did a trip for both of them.

[Malcolm]

Okay.

[Laurent]

Yeah. So that's the last time I seen my mom.

[Malcolm]

Sweet.

[Laurent]

Actually, nah, I did go to New York to go to Atlantic City, so. But yeah, see my family.

[Malcolm]

Three.

[Laurent]

Okay.

[Candace]

And what's good, sir?

[Malcolm]

What is good? The good. This is the good in the world.

[Laurent]

The.

[Malcolm]

The yin to the yang.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Malcolm]

Right. Like, yeah, you know, the. The. The fact that the light and dark have to coexist.

[Candace]

You sound like you talk about a Marvel comic. But go ahead. But go ahead.

[Malcolm]

There's a lot of darkness happening.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

Right now. And it's easy to. I know for me Personally, it's easy to get caught up in the darkness and everything that is just kind of just messed up, you know, with our systems and what have you. So for this moment, I am acknowledging the light aspect of where we are.

[Candace]

Yeah. And there is light. You just have to look for it sometimes a little harder, that's all.

[Malcolm]

Yeah, yeah.

[Laurent]

It's like you're in a tunnel. You're just trying to look for the light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah.

[Malcolm]

I think because we're so deluged with the dark, like all the algorithms and all the headlines, I think everything is designed for us to be weighed down. And like you said, you have to do the work to see the light. You have to do the work to find the gratitude. Right. Sometimes, you know, you have to take. You have. Oftentimes, we have to make effort.

[Candace]

Right. Do you think black people have to make more of an effort, or is it just the same for everybody?

[Laurent]

Ooh, oof, oof.

[Malcolm]

Wow. You went there, huh?

[Laurent]

I could speak for black people. I could speak for myself.

[Candace]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Laurent]

I think we do have to make an effort. Yes.

[Malcolm]

More of an effort.

[Laurent]

More of an effort. Yeah. I think it's designed for us to get into that dark space. It's designed through everything that we see. I know you want to start with the light, but now we.

[Malcolm]

No, we got the light. We got the light out of the.

[Laurent]

Way, but, yeah, it's designed for us to go into the darkness. So a lot of. A lot of things that we consume, the music, social media, the movies, just the news, it just brings it to that space, and it's constant.

[Malcolm]

So I would. So I. I agree. Yes. And, yeah, I think that. That is a. That's a general thing. I think it. It's not necessarily specifically designed for black people to be in the dark. I think it's. It's an overall thing, and it. It does impact us. Like, you know, what's the saying? If America catches a cold, black people catch pneumonia?

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

You know.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

So I think the design is for. Is. Is the whole setup, and we just, you know, we. We may feel it more, but I don't know if I would necessarily think it's specifically that the darkness is specifically designed for us.

[Candace]

Really? How so? Yeah, because when we say structural relation, what I'm saying. Racism. Structural racism.

[Malcolm]

Yeah, that's the design, but I think that is. I think there is a. I think there's an overall design. Yes, structural racism is a part of it, but government we're talking about in another episode Right, Yeah, yeah. Government cannot govern a united people. Right. Because if the people are united, then what do you need the government for? The government's job is to manage society and manage people. So if we are all, you know, have some kind of, you know, union, then it makes it more difficult for the government. So we live in a system that is. That runs on divisiveness. Yeah, right. So I think that's like. That's the overall. The. The overarching, overreaching concept to keep us all separated, keep us all divided, keep us all in angst. The structural racism and the systemic racism is definitely a part of it, and that's what affects us. But I. I would argue that non. Blacks are. They suffer from. We all suffer from the same oppressor.

[Laurent]

Yeah, yeah.

[Malcolm]

I mean, that's the first thing.

[Laurent]

Yes, that's true.

[Malcolm]

Right. Like, we tend to. Oftentimes, I think we tend to feel like oppression and pain is exclusive to.

[Candace]

Us, which is not.

[Laurent]

Which is not. Yeah, I agree.

[Candace]

But it is definitely a different design in terms of how we get to that pain or trauma. Our journey is much different. Sure, we all may experience it in. We all may experience it in the words that we understand. Right. But that journey and how we receive it, process it, whether it's trauma, whatever we're talking about, that's bad or good, it definitely is different because of our journey and because of our history, in my opinion.

[Laurent]

But to go back to what you said, I do think there's a lot of similarities when it comes to other groups. So when I travel sometimes, like, say I'm in Southern Illinois and I'm like, I see a trailer park and I think about the projects, and I'm seeing, like, this is kind of parallel of what these people are going through and what people in the projects are going through. Like they stuck in that same spot. Yeah. Yeah, I do see parallels in that.

[Malcolm]

Yeah. They just see a different savior.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

You know, what I really like about what you do is that you bring so many topics to people, and it kind of reminds us of what we do in terms of bringing topics that people may find taboo, may find out of the range of what black folks normally talk about. You really take it to the nth degree in what you do. And I wanted to talk a little bit about just your specific journey because of the fact that you. You really were triggered by, you know, food, for lack of a better way of saying it, in terms of what you eat. And then we have to think about the traditions and culture of black people and what might be detrimental to us and things that we don't sometimes want to let go of, even though we know it's not good for us, but it's kind of innate, and that's a struggle that we all have. And you're moving the needle on that.

[Laurent]

Thank you for saying that. But so my journey. Right.

[Malcolm]

I'm sorry, Laurent. I just. I just want to interject. Please let the thought because. So I tend to do intros before we start the podcast.

[Laurent]

Okay.

[Malcolm]

That's part of the opening. But I just want to say for our listeners and our viewers, I just want to give a shout out to your podcast, Broken Traditions.

[Laurent]

Thank you.

[Malcolm]

Which I, you know, not Our Hood is my favorite podcast, I have to say.

[Laurent]

But I say I'll say the same.

[Malcolm]

I'd say Broken Traditions. Like, you're up there. Like, you are one of my favorite podcasts.

[Laurent]

Oh, wow. Wow.

[Malcolm]

So I would love for you to, you know, answer Candace, but I would love for you to just shout out to Broken Traditions Podcast. And I love the story behind the name Broken Tradition. So if you can just start us. Start us out with, with that.

[Laurent]

So Broken Traditions. And thank you for that, man. That means a lot, man. Like, like we said when you saw me, he's like, I'll be watching you feel like I met a celebrity. I'm like, but so when my ex fiance, father died, that's when I, like, started vegan. And, you know, like, when you jump into something, I'm vegan, to let people, everybody know. But when you jump into something, you know, you go like, head on full in. So I'm like, I'm vegan. And, you know, all the food that we eating is killing us and all the. All the processed stuff. So I'm thinking like, you know, we just eating this bad food and we go to his funeral, and I'm the only one that can't eat because everything is made with meat. So I was like, all right, I can't eat. I could eat rice. And it was a lot of jokes that was being put on me, like, oh, you want to go outside to cut the grass, to eat the bag? And like, little things like that. I'm like, all right, whatever. But then I'm saying in my head, like, the food that you guys are eating is the reason that we here.

[Malcolm]

And what was the food like, pork.

[Laurent]

Chitlins, like, real Southern old school food. You know, he came from a Southern background and that was the food that they ate. But now we in say, like, you know, 2016, that food is not the same as it was back then. Like, the processing, it kills a lot quicker. So I'm like, we eating this food, and this is the reason why we here. So I was like, this is something we need to break away from. We gotta break this tradition.

[Malcolm]

What did he die from?

[Laurent]

Cancer? Yeah. And it's like towards the end of his life, they told him that the food that he wanted to eat, he couldn't eat the food because it was messing up with his medicine and the chemo and everything. So if he ate the food, it would have sped up his death and they couldn't fight the cancer. So it was like, you can't eat these food no more. But that same food that he wanted to eat was being served at the funeral that we was at. So I was like, yeah. And it's crazy. I never really told that story on camera. It's like, let me just tell it here with you guys.

[Candace]

I had a friend of mine whose father had heart attacks, several of them, and he was told, sir, if you eat, like one more plate of macaroni and cheese, right? And so I'm talking about the cheese, the five cheese recipe that we know that's really rich in it. He said, truly, if you eat one more spoonful of that, you will have another. He did not believe him. He was at a cookout, he ate macaroni and cheese, and he had a heart attack.

[Malcolm]

Wow.

[Laurent]

Wow.

[Candace]

Yeah. But you know what? That's because we have to understand, you know, how the body is made. We eat all those foods, and then it clogs the arteries.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

It's like when you melt butter and then it's melted, then gets hardened again. That's what it's doing in your arteries. Anything that's thick like that will do that. Then it coats it coats it. Then it becomes clogged up. That's essentially what a heart attack is. But that's why that happened. But it is hard to be in a family situation, especially when you're talking about tradition and breaking them, and say to yourself, no, I'm not gonna eat. Because you do have people, like you said, who will try to ostracize you in that process. And that's no fun.

[Laurent]

No. Now I'm used to it. Cause I've been vegan for eight years. But at that time, it was the beginning stages of it, and it was always the same thing. You just get upset about it. Like, you know, I'd break away from this. But now, at the point in my life, I don't care what people Eat. So I'm just doing it for myself.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

Do you have kids?

[Laurent]

Mm.

[Malcolm]

Are they vegan?

[Laurent]

They're not going through that. Yeah, they just, like, I'm not doing that. Like, my son, he's eating his pork. Yeah. He's eating his Chinese food.

[Candace]

What are some of the things that you see that in tradition wise that you also think should be broken in black culture? Yeah. In black culture.

[Malcolm]

Do we have enough time?

[Candace]

Here we go. Not, do we have enough time?

[Laurent]

Should we have, like, three points?

[Candace]

Didn't we start talking about the good? I told you I was claiming the good. Okay.

[Laurent]

The dart keeps pulling me back.

[Candace]

The dart keeps pulling you back.

[Laurent]

I think one of the things that we need to break away from is street culture and our infatuation with street culture. So, like, just recently, not sure you guys are gonna hear this, but, like, young Thug just got free and everybody's, oh, Thug is home. Thug is home. Like, but what did he do to get there? Let's talk about that. And not to mention, we could amplify that. You know, Thug did whatever he did to get himself in that position, which I'm not sure if he's guilty or not. Like, I don't know all the circumstances. I didn't follow the case. But it's like, we always glorify the street culture, but never glorify the good that we do. So, like, say some young black girl get a whole scholarship. We don't say, oh, good job. We hype about Thug. We hype about Free Dirk. We hype about that street culture. And. And that street culture really have a chokehold on black culture. I think it's, like, on top of everything to me, and it kind of like, funnels down from that. Yeah, yeah.

[Malcolm]

You had an episode that reminded me that for the last six, seven years, I've been threatening to get a T shirt made. I'm gonna get it made.

[Candace]

What's it gonna say?

[Malcolm]

C. Delores Tucker was right.

[Candace]

All right.

[Malcolm]

Right.

[Candace]

I knew that. I knew that.

[Malcolm]

Cause I've been saying that. I've been saying that. I've been saying that. I've been saying, saying that. And when I saw the title of one of your episodes, I was like.

[Laurent]

Finally, there's someone else who agrees.

[Malcolm]

C. Delores Tucker was right. Because she told us in 1990.

[Laurent]

It was 93. Yeah.

[Malcolm]

She said this music was gonna have a detrimental effect on the psyche of our young.

[Candace]

Like, okay, so.

[Malcolm]

But hey, comrades, if you are enjoying the episode, join the conversation. Like, subscribe. Leave a comment below. Don't get yourself blocked. Keep it clean, y'.

[Candace]

All. Where did it come from? Why are. Do you think people are fascinated with street culture? Because the people who are. When he went in, his record, the sales number two billboard, he was still. He was making money.

[Laurent]

Which one, Dirk?

[Malcolm]

You talking about? Young thug R. Kelly.

[Candace]

You brought up R. Kelly.

[Laurent]

Everybody's dreams go up when they go to jail.

[Candace]

Sure, sure. But what I'm saying is, even before that, and right now, guess what? He's still gonna make money. He's gonna make more money. So what I'm saying is that these are things that people see as success. So my question to you is, where do you think that comes from? That if they are glorifying street culture, that is. Do you think that is of our creation, or do you think that is of the media? Creation, Survival. Creation, Culture creation.

[Laurent]

Well, I think when it comes to music, in my opinion, it's. It's our creation. We create the music. Right. But we're not the one being told what to create, if that makes sense. So I think it was an interview with Meek Mill. He said, we get paid more money to rap about the debauchery stuff. And if you get into a business to make more money, why not do what the people were paying you to do?

[Malcolm]

So why not? I mean, you have to. Because they're paying you.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

They're funding you. So whenever you're funded, who's ever giving you the money, they mandate what you do.

[Laurent]

Yeah, right. Yeah. So I think it's the people on top who are of the music business. Right. So, like. So, for example, like a Jerry Heller seen N.W.A like, all right, I'm take N.W.A yeah. And I'm gonna, you know, put money towards this and create this. And this image is gonna be the new image. And that took off. So that is the. That's the control in it. It's the people on top.

[Malcolm]

But we also live in the. I mean, we live in a system. We live in a country where the bad guys are always celebrated.

[Laurent]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Malcolm]

I mean, even from, you know, the cowboys and Indian days. Right. Because really, the cowboys were really the thugs.

[Candace]

Right, Right, right, right, right.

[Malcolm]

When you're a kid and you play cops and robbers, everybody wants to be the robber. Right?

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

All of the, you know, the gangster movies.

[Candace]

Sure.

[Malcolm]

You know, the black and white gangster films, the Mafia films, like, there is a. There is a. Almost an obsession that we have with the bad guys. You know, our films reflect this. Our television reflects this. I think what happens is when that trickles down to Black culture, there's more of a. One, there's more of a push, right? Like black culture, like the media is not doing a balance of the push. So if the push is this street culture and the street culture, you know, that music affects us more directly than the Godfather is going to affect young white kids.

[Candace]

But if we're treated like the bad guy just by existing, right. Walking out into a neighborhood, not seeing our. Let's you take any take now. Not seeing ourselves, whether it be in ads or not being. Not being respected by the police, not being. Not having a good relationship with authority or neighbors, whoever. And if we're always treated like the bad guy, well, then it makes sense that if we look at something that shows the bad guy winning, if we feel like the bad guy, that's a thumbs up. Like I'm trying to, you know, where does, you know, where does that come from? We will not figure it out today. But I think it's just worth considering that we have these notions because of the way that we're treated on a day to day. I have a girlfriend, she is a corporate attorney. And you know those. What do they call you? Put the fake gold teeth.

[Malcolm]

The grill.

[Candace]

The grill. The grill.

[Laurent]

Thank you.

[Candace]

The grill. She will be in her car in the morning. Put that grill on, turn that wrap on. Like there's something in her. She's just trying to get out and express because she can't do it at work. It's what she's feeling. And now even I was like, you do what? I will have to say, but she got a grill. I mean, so what I'm saying is that some, you know, sometimes the music, and we've talked before, I think sometimes the music is an outlet to get out some of that angst. Some. Some of that. Like I said, these are Wu Tang times, not Tribe Called Quest, though. I love Tribe, but, you know, I mean, just kind of that angst of there's a lot going in the world and I'm gonna get it out by reciting these lyrics or turning it up or putting that grill on or, you know, doing something that seems way out of who you might think I am, but at least I get to exert a little bit that I can't do in the rest of my life.

[Laurent]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a form of therapist.

[Candace]

You're looking at me like, wow.

[Malcolm]

Yeah, well, well, I mean, look, she has. That's not her life.

[Candace]

It is not her life at all.

[Malcolm]

Right? So that's the life that she. That's. That's kind of fantasy, like cosplay.

[Laurent]

It's kind of cosplay, right?

[Candace]

Sure, sure.

[Malcolm]

But we have kids out here. Like, one of my biggest, one of my biggest beefs with hip hop has always been, you know, I would say big and Tupac. Right. I'll say Tupac because I've always had probably more of an issue with him just because of, you know, his upbringing. Right. Here's a kid who went to performing arts high school. You know, he came from, you know, lineage of black Panthers. He used to be a dancer for Dizzle Up Underground.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

And he didn't become. He used to brag about never having a jail record until he had a record out. Right. So all of this, this, this thug life that he was not living, you have kids out, out there who really believe that Thug life, right?

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

And who really want to be thug life. Who. And they don't have the money, they don't have the bodyguards, they don't have the crew around them. They don't have the safety net to play at this life because based on what their surroundings, this is their life and they, they want to go out and they want to be thug life. So I've always had, you know, I've spoken ad nauseam about my love hate relationship with hip hop, but it's that street culture where there is, sure, there are people who have the safety of it being cosplay, but there are kids who, they're inundated with this, you know, with the music, with the aggression, with this soundtrack that if you're listening to aggressive music or all day long and somebody steps on your sneakers, you ready to fight? You ready to take a motherfucker out?

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

And so much of the, the soundtrack of our young people's lives is this music that is predicated upon the death and destruction of our people.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

But you know what? Go ahead.

[Laurent]

Well, I want to ask you. So do you think Tupac not to derail it, was that cosplay or. That was.

[Candace]

That's exactly what I was going to say.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Do you think that was like cosplay?

[Laurent]

Well, then I have a follow up question.

[Malcolm]

Okay, sure. So. So I will say that I had a recent conversation and I, and I wish I could remember the person had the conversation with because they actually gave me, after 30 years, gave me a reframe on Tupac that I was actually able to accept. And I can't remember who that conversation was with. Part of that conversation was Tupac took a turn, right. Like once he got with Suge and Death Row. That changed the militant aspect of him. That was about the people shifted and was deliberately shifted and all of that militant vibe and character went to the narrative of the street culture. But this was a kid who. That wasn't his life.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

So I think in some respect, it was cosplay. Cause he had the safety net of playing at a life that a lot of kids really live. Here's the thing about when you are a recording artist. Right. And I'll take hip hop specifically.

[Laurent]

Yeah, you.

[Malcolm]

I mean, a lot. Oh, people are gonna. I know. I'm gonna get. I'm feeling the backlash already. A lot of our recording artists in hip hop, for me, are puppets.

[Laurent]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Malcolm]

Who are perpetuating the street culture narrative.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

Right. So part of the problem with what we call trash, those of us who are a little older and called, you know, will be deemed trash in hip hop now. You know, the. You know, this younger generation, we're complicit in this trash hip hop and this mumble rap. We're 100% complicit. Because this is a younger generation who grew up watching and listening to us. Listen to Big and Jay Z.

[Laurent]

Right.

[Malcolm]

And N.W.A. a host of MCs, you know, who, you know, probably in our top 10. Right.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

The content of the cats we grew up listening to is not any different from the content that these kids are listening to. The skill set does not match up. And because we're talking about a generation that. That grew up on NWA and post NWA Hip Hop, like, that's all they know.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

So that's what their influence is. So before, when NWA were rapping about shooting somebody up. Right. Now you got kids who are really shooting people up. I think part of the shift came when, you know, 50 Cent, he got shot nine times. Oh, well, now it's real. So I think the. What I would say the. And this is my judgment, the deterioration of hip hop.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

You know, it's come down to, again, the street culture, the street culture becoming the thing that everyone is desiring to be. So at this point, you have not only people who are perpetuating this narrative, but then you've got kids who they are over music, rapping about the real shit that they did.

[Candace]

Sure, right. You're rapping, but there's a lot of artistic liberty that goes into that, too. You know what I mean? You have to exaggerate. You got to add hyperbole.

[Laurent]

They don't do that. They don't exaggerate. They tell you like, I shot on 73rd Street. Some people at 9:13am Don't.

[Candace]

Not all of them do. I do not believe that all the rappers who are out there talking about shooting people actually shoot people.

[Malcolm]

No, but the fact that we've gotten down. So before there were people who were rapping about shooting people were not shooting people.

[Candace]

Sure. All right.

[Malcolm]

But now it's got. Now we've gotten down to. There are rappers.

[Candace]

The artistic real life is.

[Malcolm]

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I mean, we're down. We're at the. We're at the bottom of the barrel. And like Ray Daniel said on our other episode, I'm really hoping that. That the whole rap game is about to shift, because I don't know where else. I don't know how much further down we can go. Like, at some point when rappers realize, oh, I can't rap about the shit I actually did. Right. When. When. When. When cats start catching RICO cases.

[Candace]

Sure.

[Malcolm]

Right. And when record labels.

[Candace]

Sure.

[Malcolm]

Start, you know, being held accountable, being.

[Candace]

Used as evidence in court.

[Malcolm]

Yeah. Then the mandate's gonna. The mandate's gonna shift.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Laurent]

I think it's gonna shift because people are. They don't want it no more. They don't want it no more. Like, people don't want the sexy. Right. No more. People don't want.

[Malcolm]

Really?

[Laurent]

I think so. I think it's maybe because of my group, but I think people just don't want to hear it no more, man.

[Malcolm]

I don't. Okay. And in all transparency, I don't do the deep dive in hip hop like I used to. So that's actually surprising news to me. If people. I don't know. Cause Glorilla's.

[Laurent]

She blow up.

[Malcolm]

Yeah, she's blowing up right now. And, you know, I saw this. This post. I think we all saw it a couple of months ago when they were with these. These, you know, young female rappers whose whole shtick is the, you know, hypersexualization.

[Laurent]

It's called pussy rap.

[Malcolm]

Wow.

[Laurent]

That's the name.

[Malcolm]

And they feel empowered. Like, there's this whole movement of, like, you know, we're, you know, we running things now because we get to express ourselves. And. And there's this sense of empowerment. And the pussy movement.

[Laurent]

It's called pussy rap.

[Malcolm]

Pussy rap.

[Laurent]

Like, you got drill rap.

[Malcolm]

Yeah.

[Candace]

He unmatched the whole movement, though. But that is part of it in that they are taking back or saying, I'm gonna be in charge of myself and you and your eyes on me. That's on you. I'm dressing for myself. I'm just Saying that's a perspective. In other words, I'm dressing like myself. Y' all eyeing it or doing it in a different way. So how did it become pussy rap or pussy, you know, the movement or whatever? Because if I'm twerking or if I'm showing a lot of cleavage, okay. I'm fine with it.

[Laurent]

Mm.

[Candace]

What are you saying? It sounds like there's a projection on women who many times are just taking control of what they have and taking agency over your body.

[Malcolm]

Yeah. And my pushback on that is. I don't know how much taking control again. Somebody's giving you money to do this.

[Candace]

Somebody's making money. Ask a stripper. Now, not all strippers want to be stripping, but some strippers are like, yeah, I made three grand this weekend. Tell me where else I'm going to do that.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

And many of the ones that I know of or see on tv, they're not even having sex or they're doing things that are kind of provocative on OnlyFans, but they're making that money.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

So I'm just saying the control factor, I think sometimes, especially when you deal with a woman, comes from the outside, and that many women are taking agency of their body, and then that belongs to them kind of. You're. Now you're invading my space because of the eyes that you put on me.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

I'm not sure if 100% follow.

[Candace]

How about 90, you know, can I get you to 95, sir?

[Malcolm]

Right, right.

[Candace]

Because the. You know what I mean? So. Because it sounds like there's some judgment.

[Malcolm]

And I will. And I'll cop to that. There probably is a lot of. There probably is a lot of judgment on my half on my behalf against Pussy Rat.

[Candace]

You say that so freely. Cause that's what it's called. Yeah, you're right. I'm like, wow. Yes.

[Laurent]

Your name is Candy, so it's called. Yes, yes, it's cool.

[Candace]

I see it. You like my pussy rap. He's like, I'm gonna do it again.

[Laurent]

That's what it's called. That's what they categorize it as.

[Candace]

And by that, you mean that a lot of what they rap about is about, you know, their sexuality.

[Laurent]

So that's the subgenre of rap.

[Candace]

Of rap?

[Laurent]

Yeah. Pussy rap.

[Candace]

I have not. I'm gonna be honest. I have never heard that there's a market for it. Yes, there is a market. I just never heard it, but. And I'm glad that you're sharing in that way. Yeah. I mean, who do you think Gave it that name.

[Laurent]

I don't know.

[Candace]

I'm just curious. I'm curious. Do you think it was a man or a woman?

[Laurent]

I'll say a woman, probably. We can't do that.

[Candace]

I think a woman.

[Laurent]

Yeah, we can't do that.

[Candace]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. She's controlling it. I'm not saying, oh, yea or nay, agree or not, but I could see going down that road in that way for some agency.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Especially when we're at a time when we were talking about women having agency and their privacy and things of that nature. But it's really good to hear a man's perspective about it, which is why I really want to talk to you about. You know, you've talked and brought people on to talk about how people feel about Barack Obama. Now, not that I want to make this political, but it also has to do with agency and the agency that a black man has over who he is and how he can contribute to the world by his vote. Yes, by the time this comes on, it'll be over. But still, we've got other votes that are coming up. We may not even know who's the winner of the election if this airs in March. We may not still know. But the bottom line is that there was so much offense taken against Obama about him telling people to go out to vote. Now that I have these two black men here. What was that about? Why are black men so mad that someone was trying to lead them to Might be seen as a righteous water.

[Laurent]

I think it wasn't to go vote. I think it was you being a black man. This is your duty to go vote for Kamala. I think that's what people took it as.

[Candace]

Okay, so you being a black man, it's your duty. All that's fine. But it's the vote for Kamala.

[Laurent]

Yes. Kamala.

[Candace]

Kamala.

[Laurent]

I always mix it. I'm sorry.

[Candace]

That is. Okay. And I said it.

[Laurent]

Yeah. Vp.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Laurent]

So. Yeah, I think that's what it was. It's like that. Do you find it offensive? He wasn't talking to me. I don't.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Laurent]

Yeah. I didn't find it offensive. I mean, he said what? He said like, you could take the shoe fits, wear it. I didn't find it offensive.

[Candace]

Why was there this? I mean, people are exploding about it.

[Laurent]

Because people don't want to be told what to do.

[Candace]

People are told what to do all.

[Malcolm]

The time, every day.

[Candace]

Right. Aren't they?

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

What do you think it was?

[Malcolm]

I. And honestly, I didn't really pay much attention to the backlash until I saw your video.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

On broken traditions. And I saw how emotional people were getting.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

And, you know, I look at my daughter, and when my daughter does something, you know, my daughter, people don't like to be corrected. Right. So, like, I see, you know, pushback on my daughter if I'm, you know, reprimanding her about something that she knows, you know, something she knows she did, but she still doesn't want to hear it.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Nobody does.

[Malcolm]

She's like, I know. So I think part of it is people don't like being slapped on the back of the hand.

[Laurent]

Yeah. They don't like being sun.

[Malcolm]

They don't like being sunned.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

And I think a lot of people felt sunned by him. But. But. But I think there's also a. I think there's. There's also a. A big part of it is, you know, this emotional reaction to not really understanding what a president's job is.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

Right. So people will always talk about what Obama didn't do for black people.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

As if the president really does things like, you know, like. Like the president gets in office and there's already. The president gets to sign or veto bills.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

That are already written up. Right. So I think there's a. A big portion of it is misinformation.

[Candace]

Okay. Yeah.

[Malcolm]

Ignorance. And I mean ignorance in the purest sense of Ignorance in exactly how the job function actually works. Right. There was the, you know, the guy in your video who.

[Laurent]

I picked those videos for a reason, too.

[Candace]

Right, right, right.

[Laurent]

My wife was like, why do you find those videos?

[Malcolm]

Dude went to my. I mean, he hit me, like, all in my heart. And the one about Obama, you just say nothing about reparations.

[Laurent]

What are you supposed to say? Right, Right, right.

[Malcolm]

What is. Because, you know, like a president. It's not the president's function.

[Laurent]

There's so many layers to give reparations. So many layers.

[Malcolm]

Right.

[Candace]

Yeah, there are a lot of layers.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

So I guess what I. What I took away from that particular dude was the fact that there was no acknowledgement of reparations. Right. Or no acknowledgement of.

[Laurent]

But he spoke about reparations.

[Candace]

He did. Yeah.

[Laurent]

I mean, I'm trying what he's done.

[Malcolm]

You don't hit me in my heart.

[Laurent]

Like I'm trying to, but I chose that clip. I chose those clips for a reason.

[Candace]

Yeah. Yeah. And I also think it has to do with the fact that we're just online. We can say so much at any time. Our opinions that we're less confined with what we say. So then we just say anything, and then it just becomes to get clicks.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

You know what I mean? Do I think all of them are really. That they would all act different if they were in a room with him?

[Laurent]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Candace]

You know what I mean? But now I'm in my little siloed space, and I can just say whatever I want and run my mouth about the press. And I think that they were harder on him, but, you know, that's what we do. How about we break that tradition?

[Laurent]

Yes.

[Candace]

We are much harder on ourselves as a community than I think sometimes other people.

[Laurent]

Yeah, I said that in my episode. I said we were harder on Obama than we were on Biden. When Biden said, if you don't. If you don't know not to vote for me, then you're not black.

[Candace]

That's right.

[Laurent]

Which is way more offensive.

[Malcolm]

No doubt.

[Laurent]

Way more offensive.

[Malcolm]

No doubt.

[Laurent]

And I was like, dan, y' all got a lot of. I mean, you know, people could feel how they feel. But damn, y' all let Biden slide. And you voted for Biden at 90% clip, so it'll make sense. It just like you said, we hard on ourselves.

[Candace]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and I understand it. I mean, because we want to see ourselves do well. I think that's what it comes from. Like, when I am. When I. When I catch myself, I say, ooh, why am I so hard on this restaurant? For example? Yeah, that's a good one.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

You know, why am I hard on this restaurant? I'm harder on it because. Ooh, I just want it to do well. I want it. You know, I want it.

[Laurent]

Especially Delana.

[Candace]

I. Yeah, yeah. From what I hear. Yeah, from what I hear. I know y' all can fill me in on that, but. Yeah, it is definitely one of those things. But I mean, if you are chicken and biscuits.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Have biscuits. You gotta have the biscuits. You know what I mean? I don't think that that's asking for too much.

[Laurent]

No, it's not.

[Malcolm]

I guess that's why I'm so hard on hip hop. Yeah, right.

[Candace]

Because, like, you wanted to do better. You want to see us do well.

[Malcolm]

Yeah.

[Laurent]

You gotta let it go. That's like me with the Knicks. Like, I can't care about the Knicks no more. Like, I had to let it go. Like, I'm not a Knicks fan. I don't care what y' all do. I don't care how far y'.

[Candace]

All.

[Laurent]

I let it go. It's like Being in a bad relationship and you know she cheating on you. Just let it go. That's the Knicks for me.

[Malcolm]

Well, let it go. Let it go. Let her go or let her go?

[Laurent]

Let it all go. Let it all go. Elsa. Let it all go.

[Candace]

Oh my God. Comrades, if you're enjoying this episode, join the conversation and make sure to like subscribe and comment below. Nah, nah, nah.

[Malcolm]

And not to harp on hip hop. We can get off of it.

[Candace]

You mean to harp on hip hop? Do not get it wrong. And that's ok.

[Malcolm]

But I was.

[Candace]

I'm gonna roll up this carpet in one minute though.

[Malcolm]

Okay, good, cool. So I used to, you know, there was a time where Biggie and Jay Z could do no wrong by me. And it was a weird thing for me because everything they rapped, they rapped about everything that I hated about hip. Their content was everything that I stood against. But it was their execution. Right? It was the lyrical. It was the lyrical way in which they were telling these stories.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

That was undeniable.

[Laurent]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. You said it was undeniable. So when Biggie said. I thought it was a trip. You look so good. I suck at you.

[Malcolm]

Not, not my bro. I'm not even. Nah, nah. Not that one.

[Candace]

Not that one. You want me to roll up that carpet?

[Malcolm]

Yeah, right, right, right. Not that one, not that one, not that one.

[Laurent]

I can't resist. My bad.

[Malcolm]

Not that one. And also not the one. That was the, the one. That, that, that. And again, it goes back to my love hate relationship. It was the one where on, on your episode where your man was talk. He was doing a. Reciting a Biggie verse about robbing a pregnant chick on the street.

[Laurent]

Yeah. He said, I'll take you your number one mom pendant. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Malcolm]

That wasn't cool.

[Laurent]

Yeah. Flagrant lines. Like it was crazy.

[Malcolm]

But there was fist fights and lame scuffles. Pillowcase to the face, make the shell muffle, Shoot your daughter in the calf muscle. A tussle, nickel plated, sprinkle coke on the floor, make it drug related.

[Laurent]

That's crazy.

[Malcolm]

That's a movie. Yeah, right. But so, but, but you see what I'm saying just in terms of like, like the kind of. And, and that is an artistry that. You know the line that you just quoted that I won't even, I won't even quote you so far. Like, look, I've been on TV since I was 13 years old. I met a lot of fine women. I never met a woman that in.

[Laurent]

My life, in my life, I Don't.

[Malcolm]

Know who Biggie met. I don't know what she looked like.

[Laurent]

Nah, it was that other eye. That was the other eye, right? That other eye he saw.

[Malcolm]

Double of the blue chick.

[Laurent]

Yeah, I never seen that. I mean, you know, he like what he likes, but.

[Malcolm]

I know. But for me, so. So when I listen to just. I don't know, there's a certain level of. And again. And for me, as a poet, as a writer, as a lyricist, I would. I've just always wanted to see hip hop do better, you know? So back to the, you know, our being. Being hard on our own people. I'm definitely gonna be. I'm gonna be hard on the music, period. Whether they're black, Latino. I'm gonna be way more hard on you if you're white or Latino. Yeah, right. But I think for me it's the just wanting to see the art do better.

[Candace]

Yeah, yeah.

[Laurent]

So you say you're being hard on Latinos. So, like, how you feel about Latinos and hip hop saying the N word like a fat Joe?

[Malcolm]

I Cardi B. I. Look, I'm. I'm. And I said in one of our first episodes that, you know, I think, you know, niggas should be nigging, bitch should be deaded from hip hop. Whether whether they're black, whether Latino, whether they're white. It's just. I think it's. It's. It's tired. But you know what? So. But this, this is what I did realize, though. And I'll get off the N word, you know, topic. But since that episode and you know, going back and forth with people about the word and a bunch of thumb thugging on. On social media. Right? And I realize I. My assertion, my theory as to why black people hold on and will bend over backwards to justify using nigga in their. The vocabulary is because it is the only area of superiority that we have.

[Laurent]

No, we don't.

[Malcolm]

It's the only area. No, no, In. In that. In that I can say this word.

[Candace]

You can assert it and say it.

[Malcolm]

Yeah, I can say this word. You can't say this word.

[Candace]

No, we don't own it.

[Laurent]

We don't own it.

[Malcolm]

No, no, no, no, no. We don't have to. I'm not saying we own it. I'm saying it's the only thing that we can say we can do, but you can't do. We have nothing else to that we even feel we have some kind of ownership. Because I don't believe. I don't. I don't believe we own it. Either.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

But I do believe that it's the. That's the only thing that we have that we can say. You can't say this. We can't beef with anybody over anything else.

[Laurent]

Yeah. The beef is that when it comes to the N word because, you know, there's no real repercussions of it no more. Like we said, Fat Joe, he could run around, say it all day. He could tell you I'm saying it even though you have a problem with it. What's the repercussions? Cardi B. What's the repercussions? Like you said, some random white dude on Twitter. What's the repercussions? There's no real repercussions no more. Then when somebody do use the word, and even though that we use it amongst ourselves, we would re. Overreact so bad that we will go to jail for it. That's why I said we don't own it no more. Only thing we own. We don't own the N word. We own braids. We own cornrows. We could police cornrows. You can't police braids. We use the N word like people will go to jail for it. But there's no repercussions for the. Like, I don't see it no more. We don't own it no more.

[Candace]

Well, I mean, there's repercussions in terms. Repercussions in terms of hate speech. Like, you can't. If someone said the N word to me.

[Laurent]

It depends how you say it.

[Candace]

Oh, I'm going straight to the police. If someone said the N. If I was at Target and someone said the N word, I would be. Go to the front where I could get reception, because you can't get it in. Go to reception. And I would call the police right there. So, yes, I would.

[Laurent]

So you got some.

[Candace]

I mean, because that's why we have hate crimes that are out there. That's why we have hate speech. That's why we. So I would use that. But that doesn't prove ownership or anything. But I'm saying that repercussions are there, that people should definitely be aware about whereof and exercise.

[Laurent]

So if somebody said it to you as a term of endearment that was white. It's.

[Candace]

Wait a minute.

[Laurent]

Because that's how we use process that, like.

[Candace]

All right, so in real time. Not like I'm listening to it in an art form. No, no.

[Laurent]

So.

[Candace]

And then I couldn't have. Expect. I can't expect that to. That is a good one.

[Laurent]

Yeah. I.

[Candace]

It happened to you.

[Laurent]

It happened to me before. Yeah. And I had a.

[Candace]

What did you do?

[Laurent]

Yeah, I pulled it to the side, had a conversation. And he said, I didn't know that was a issue.

[Malcolm]

Sure. Right.

[Laurent]

I didn't know it was an issue. And he said the reason why he didn't know it was an issue because the black friends he's around, they say it all the time and nobody never checked them. And he went back to around his black friends and he stopped saying it. And they say, why are you acting weird? Like, our age group is different. The younger age group is another story. It's expected for people to say it.

[Candace]

I would not imagine. And I'm not saying it couldn't happen. It happened to you, but I would not imagine that someone who was white would call me that as a term of endearment. I'd be very shocked if they.

[Laurent]

That's the thing.

[Candace]

People who I knew would think that that would land well on me. So that's why I'm not crossing over there yet. But I understand your point.

[Laurent]

Yeah. Because he's younger than me. So I was like, what?

[Candace]

Right, right.

[Laurent]

And I had a conversation. He's like, I didn't know that. My bad.

[Candace]

Right. He was trying to do something. He's. He was doing what other people have.

[Laurent]

Done and he course corrected himself. But when he went back around his friends that he used it with that were black, they was like, why are you not using it no more?

[Malcolm]

Wow. Wow.

[Laurent]

Yeah. So he was real confused. So he was like, what should I do? I'm like, just don't say it around me. That's all I could control.

[Candace]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is the limit of it. You know, you can control.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

What is within your. In your reach.

[Laurent]

Yeah. But I don't say it at all. Like, I can't even say it in context when I'm having conversations now. It's crazy. Like, if. If I'm using the context and I hear that I want to use the er. I'd rather use that than a ga.

[Candace]

I see, I see.

[Malcolm]

In context.

[Laurent]

Yeah, in context.

[Candace]

Right. To really, like, mean the word that you're saying. Yeah, because that, you know, you say the ah, that has one meaning, but the er, that's a whole different definition.

[Laurent]

Yeah, but it's still the same word.

[Candace]

Yeah, it's still the same word.

[Malcolm]

I've taken that in my vocabulary. I use comrade.

[Laurent]

Comrade, yeah. I'm a comrade now. I got my cups. I'm comrad. Once you get to cut your comrade, that Was in terms of conditions of being on the show.

[Candace]

You know, I think part of the issues that we are facing and some of these traditions that have to be broken arise from the fact that we're just not all fighting for the same cause anymore. Like in the 1960s, there was a common cause, right. And there were also leaders. And we don't have. Especially with social media. Not that. Not that we necessarily need a leader, but it'd be impossible to have a leader these days.

[Laurent]

Well, back then, the leaders were not making as much money these leaders are making now. So these leaders are bought out. So, like, why do you talk.

[Candace]

Do you think we have leaders in the black community that you can point. That we can point to kind of.

[Malcolm]

Collectively, who would be like a pseudo.

[Candace]

Leader or someone that maybe is. What if it were the 60s? Do you think that someone who exists today would have risen up as a leader and it was the 60s?

[Laurent]

No.

[Malcolm]

But is there someone now? Is there anyone particular that you're. Even if you don't say the name. But is there someone particular? When you say leaders are making money now, is there someone particular you can point to as an example?

[Laurent]

Leaders making money now? I mean, we say Al Sharpton's the leader, right? Do we. People say that. My mom said it.

[Candace]

Here's how I look at Al Sharpton. Who else is doing what he's doing? As far back as we can go, when we think about someone who rose to the cause and really was talking about all the topics that we're talking about now, more so he really was the one who was out there. And when people had to call on someone when police brutality wasn't in the headlines the way it was, because we don't have social media and we didn't have Covid that, you know, meets George Floyd. I mean, he's been doing that for decades. Who was doing that work? He was. It was almost a niche market that really wasn't. It's just that we didn't know about it because we didn't have phones. Right. But if you were going to call on someone, you definitely call on the Sharpton.

[Malcolm]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Candace]

No one was doing that. And you know what? Not a whole. Well, more people are doing the work now, but at the level that, I mean, he will still leave his anchor chair and go to the march. He will leave his anchor chair, go to speaker funeral, and just the presence is going to get you that attention that you need. So. So I would say that's actually a very good one. And now people may like, dislike, whatever. But if you think about the purpose of what he does, I would tend to agree.

[Malcolm]

To the point where it's. Where it's. Whether it's fair or not. To the point where it's almost a joke. Right. Like, you know. Oh, well, you know, when he shows up on the scene is up.

[Candace]

Right, right, right.

[Laurent]

I think.

[Malcolm]

But to your point, though, he's the only one. I mean, I think now we got, you know, they call Ben Crump now.

[Laurent]

Yeah, I think Big Crump's the new one that shows up on the scene.

[Candace]

Sure.

[Laurent]

Here we go.

[Candace]

Get the checkbook.

[Laurent]

What's the backstory?

[Candace]

Yeah, you just get the. Yeah, get the checkbook.

[Laurent]

He got too many. I don't know. I have a love hate relationship with Ben Crump. Like, I understand what he's doing, but there's always a crazy backstory from the person he's representing that you can see both sides. Like that guy that was in Georgia that was choking the cop.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Laurent]

And Big Crump was like, oh, he's just a good man. This man was choking the cop. What's the cop supposed to do?

[Candace]

Well, what. But I don't know which one we're talking about.

[Laurent]

Okay. I think his name is Linda Cure. That's his name. Recipes to Linda Cure. No shade to Linda Cure. But it was a. He got pulled over by the police officer. Police officer said, you speeding. Regular routine stop. And he said, get out the car. He got out the car, words were exchanged. And the guy start putting his hands around his neck, choking him. Like. Like Homer Simpson choking Bart Simpson. Like in the cartoon. That's what it looked like.

[Candace]

I got you. I got you.

[Laurent]

And he's like, going down. He's like, yeah, bitch. You about to die, bitch.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Laurent]

That's what he's telling him.

[Malcolm]

Oh, wow.

[Laurent]

And the guy pulled out his gun and shot him.

[Malcolm]

Oh, wow.

[Laurent]

Then that story didn't get out yet. But I know Benjamin Crump had to see that footage. But he still did the press conference still had the mom say his name. We gotta get this awareness out.

[Candace]

And I'm like, well, you know what? That's because, listen, was that protecting and serving?

[Laurent]

He was just giving the guy a.

[Candace]

Ticket like you said, it was a regular ticket stop.

[Laurent]

I seen a video. It was a regular ticket stop. And he started choking the cop.

[Candace]

Okay, I'll have to see it.

[Laurent]

Yeah, he started choking the cop.

[Candace]

Words out, look. But we'll have to hear from the peoples because I have not seen that.

[Laurent]

Yeah, I mean, it got swept under the rug.

[Candace]

But you have to understand what came before that. And I'm not, you know, saying case by case.

[Laurent]

Don't we?

[Candace]

You do case by case. But listen, case by case isn't just case by case. When you're. Let's talk about. I'm stopped. When I'm stopped, it's not case by case. It's every case that came before me. I'm like, there can't be a problem. Let me see what I need to do. Let me turn down my music. Let me put on some glasses. Let me do something. You know what I mean? Because I know I do not want to be a hashtag. So it's not just me right there. It's the precedent, is everything that's come before me. And for y', all, it's even worse. It is not case by case if you are driving at night and a police officer pulls you over and you're like, I'm doing everything correct. This is a new car. Can't be a light. Wasn't speeding. That is not a case by case. You were going to pull down that window thinking about, correct me if I'm wrong, all those headlines.

[Laurent]

Sure. I used to be like that.

[Candace]

Okay, so are you not like that now?

[Laurent]

No, because that's not my experience.

[Candace]

That's true, but their experience is a black man. And that's all that we've seen before. That's their experience. Just a black man. Which that's what you are when you are putting up.

[Laurent]

I don't believe that.

[Candace]

You don't think that.

[Laurent]

No.

[Candace]

Pulled over, they see a black man.

[Laurent]

All right, how crazy this may sound. I don't experience that in the South. I experienced that when I lived in New York.

[Candace]

Okay, so you have experienced it.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Laurent]

But the reason why I stopped saying that's the case, because I had that mindset. I called it li Identity. I had that mindset. And I was driving to North Carolina, some one hotel town, and I'm the only car on the road. I'm doing 90. I'm looking crazy.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Laurent]

Rental car. And this cop pulled me up. I'm like, oh, God. I was about to call my son on FaceTime so he could have evidence of what's going on.

[Candace]

Well, that's what. Okay.

[Laurent]

So I didn't do that. I just said, you know what? I'm just. Because the cops like, yo, you good? I said, yeah. Old white cop, nighttime. I said, I'm sorry, was I speeding? Said, yeah, you was doing 90 and 50. I said, all right. I said. He said, where you headed? To. I said, I'm headed to the Hampton Inn. He knew I wasn't lying. It's one hotel in the town.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Laurent]

And he says, oh, you go to the Hampton Inn. Oh, tell such and such and say hi. All right, have a nice day. And that was it. I wasn't aggressive. I didn't have all that rah rah that we see prior to the escalation.

[Candace]

But sometimes there's not the rah rah. I do understand what you're saying.

[Laurent]

Yeah. But anyway, I lead with my energy.

[Candace]

Like that and neither do I. I make out well. Yeah, but I do have that in mind. I do have, you know, listen. That's good to hear.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

I just know many black men who brace themselves as well they should because of the headlines. You just have to adjust in my. I mean, you know, you tell me.

[Laurent]

But I used to believe that. I don't believe that no more.

[Malcolm]

So I do believe in. And I do experience the bracing myself. Right. I think it's because of everything that we hear, all the headlines that we read, all the videos that we've seen. We don't necessarily. We don't see the videos of the black man in the car and he's talking, you know, politely to the officer the way our parents have taught us to interact with cops when we get pulled over. And so we don't see footage of that kind of situation escalating. Right. All the footage that we see is.

[Candace]

I've seen it both ways.

[Laurent]

Okay.

[Malcolm]

So I've never, I've never seen that.

[Candace]

I have seen, you know, I have seen it rise up out of just a simple interaction period. And there are dozens and dozens of. And then there. And then there are other people who are like you, who everything's just fine. It is. Not every cop, I mean, not every.

[Laurent]

Cop was pulled on me by cops, but I was in New York.

[Candace]

Uh huh.

[Laurent]

You know, pull out the car. That was in New York. Yeah, all that. It was in New York, I guess. NYPD and long. All the cops is a different breed in Atlanta.

[Candace]

But yeah. And plus it's the editing of the video. If the video ever gets let.

[Laurent]

Oh, this is before Body Change. Yeah.

[Malcolm]

Like, I remember being in, in New Rochelle. I was at the New Rochelle mall and you know, Cosby was still on. And I go into Foot Locker with a couple of friends and this frenzy started and we're like, okay, we need to, we need to get out of here. So we start, you know, fast walking out of the mall, kind of, you know, starting to a trot we get in there, we get in the car and underground parking garage, and I'm, you know, I'm swerving to get out because now people, you know, are getting in the car to follow.

[Laurent]

That's crazy.

[Malcolm]

Right? So I'm trying to swerve, get out the, you know, the parking garage. I get out, you know, I'm gone.

[Candace]

And.

[Malcolm]

And then cop, you know, pulls me over. And so now I got people, you know, standing by, looking, and I'm frustrated. I'm trying to get out of here. And now this cop's pulling me over, and I. He pulls me over. I get out the car and walk up to him, like, what you pull me over for? He said, get back in the car. And the way he said it, I was like, I'm in the wrong.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

I've got all of this aggression because I'm like, you should see my. You see all. You see all these people Follow, Follow me. What are you doing? He was like, get back on the car. And I realized that there was no reason for me to jump out of the car with all of that hubris, asking him why he pulled me over.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

But it was my automatic. Even though I, you know, my father and mother have both had. Had the conversation with me about how you interact with cops if you get pulled over.

[Candace]

Sure, sure.

[Malcolm]

But for me, it was all of that aggression and all that frustration and.

[Laurent]

All that thug life you had. Yeah, yeah. Tupac playing all the hip hop, aggressive music I had also.

[Candace]

But wait, wait, wait. Also. I'm sure a lot of. A lot of fear, a lot of, you know, things kick in when you're like, you know, you have all those emotions coming. I'm not saying you were in the right or wrong. I'm just saying that I was in the wrong. You were in the wrong. Okay, you were in the wrong. But he wouldn't have been right to respond to you in a way that superseded what you gave him.

[Malcolm]

Not at all.

[Candace]

And that's unfortunately what happens. And they should. Police officers need to understand that when you're pulled over, you're not gonna get the happiest person, and you're certainly not gonna get the happiest person with the history that we have so that, you know, you have to look at it. You are the one who you're protecting and serving. You need to do a better job at assessing that situation.

[Malcolm]

Sure. You should be trained.

[Laurent]

If we have that history, we know that history. How come we not the happiest person? So I don't want to be the Next. Hashtag. So let me just chill. Let me pump the brakes. Should that be the direction that we going in instead of being aggressive?

[Candace]

Well, I'm just saying that some people deal with it in a different way. And as a police officer, you. Your ability to just scale people and bring people down should be better than if you got out of the car like Malcolm, then you get out of baton. That does not add up. He did you well.

[Malcolm]

Sure.

[Laurent]

It could have went the other way, though.

[Malcolm]

And there are. It could have gone the other way.

[Laurent]

Sure. Yeah.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

But all he had to say was, get back on the car. And I was like, you got it. I'm in the wrong.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

But at the same time, I think we also have to acknowledge that all cops are not the cops. We see correct headlines. Right, Correct. So, sure, they're definitely. If a cop pulls somebody over and the person is acting aggressive and defensive and all of that. Yes. A cop is trained and should have better training to be able to handle the. Assess the situation. Yeah. And handle it accordingly without their own aggression and whatever they have going on in their lives. And they're seeing this. Here's. Here's a. Here's a person that I can let all of this out on. So, yes, that exists. But there are. So, you know, there are a lot of cops who don't act, don't do, don't respond in what we see, what we take as the typical way a cop responds when they pull over.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Yeah. But it's interesting what you said, the whole north and south, because I've been driving in the car with my mom in Mississippi. No street lights, and everybody. We just got quiet. That wasn't a good feeling.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

You know, so it's just, you know, it depends upon where you are. Depends upon. And, you know, you know, you know, what your experiences have been in order to handle how a cop. How a cop perceives you and takes you in. Yeah. Do you think that, you know, I was looking at something that you were doing that talked about stereotypes?

[Laurent]

Mm.

[Candace]

You think we accept these stereotypes that are put upon us?

[Laurent]

Yeah, I think we do.

[Candace]

And what do you mean by that?

[Laurent]

So let's bring up a stereotype. Right.

[Candace]

There are many.

[Laurent]

Two. Rolodex.

[Malcolm]

Yeah.

[Candace]

I'm like.

[Laurent]

I will say, all right.

[Candace]

I mean, I'll let you know.

[Laurent]

Over sexualizing black women. Right.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Laurent]

So there are some women who would here. Back that ass up and just need to get on top of a tabletop or top of a Kia and start backing that ass up. Why do you need to do that. When you hear that song, it's something in that beat that triggers in your head.

[Candace]

So you're saying that we accept stereotypes because of the way that we might react to music or just anything. Or just anything. But let's take that one specifically, which I understand what you're saying. I'm just really trying to get different perspective about it. Because a lot of women do not feel that way.

[Laurent]

No, a lot of women do. They don't. I think more women don't, actually.

[Candace]

Yeah, I think more women don't.

[Laurent]

Yeah. It's just online banter.

[Candace]

Right, right. So. Right, exactly. So if I'm getting up on a table and I'm doing a dance that. And I know you know where I'm going, I'm doing a dance that. If you put me in a dance and I was doing it as a tribal dance in Africa, it would look totally different. Well, then again, that's not on me. That's on you.

[Laurent]

But we're not in Africa.

[Candace]

Yeah, I know, but I'm saying. But you know what? The way that they move, the way that we move our bodies, the way that we do things that we can do that are kind of representative of who we are and how we dance and how we move, that is in us, ancestrally speaking. Yeah. So if we are moving or doing what might be called twerking, that same dance, I've seen it now in Africa, and they're called tribal dances. So if I'm doing it on a stage.

[Laurent]

Twerking was originated in New Orleans, like, Louisiana. Right.

[Candace]

I'm just saying the movement of the lower part of the. What I'm saying. And that's what we're talking. Right. So again, I think it's in the eyes of the beholder. Okay, but let me look another example that I want you to give me. Are you. Let's say that you think we accept the stereotype that we are lazy or that we are always. I don't know, always late or that.

[Malcolm]

Can I go back for a second?

[Candace]

You can.

[Malcolm]

Only because I'm still trying to follow the. If the young lady gets up on the table or the Kia on the Ikea, that. And. And we're looking. It's on us. I don't. I'm not. I'm. I don't quite.

[Candace]

Well, he's talking about the sexualization of it.

[Laurent]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Maybe I'm. I mean, maybe the. Maybe they're not doing it to be sexualized. Yeah.

[Laurent]

Twerkly sexualized.

[Malcolm]

Why else. Why else would they get on the table.

[Candace]

Why can't a woman. Why can't a woman. Why can't a woman move forward freely as she wants on the table? Because, you know, that's what she can do and have agency over her body.

[Malcolm]

Oh, we doing all that banter now?

[Candace]

No, I'm serious. I'm serious. I'm just serious. You know what I mean? So two girls are standing on the table, and they're moving and they're shaking and they're lightly clothed. Okay. When did it become sexualized? When somebody else saw it and made it sexualized. That's all I'm saying.

[Laurent]

I don't. I don't agree with that.

[Malcolm]

So, okay. Okay. So. So. So given that, the. What would. What do you think the impetus would be for those two ladies to get on the table slash ikea and start twerking? If it. So if it's not a sexualized thing in their mind, what do you think it could be?

[Candace]

Because I can. Because I can. Because I can. Why can't I do anything else?

[Laurent]

That's your point. You know, sexual back that ass couple. Juvenile. Got the lyrics. Don't, don't. Don't you hear that beat drop?

[Malcolm]

Wow.

[Candace]

Wow, y' all are really. Yo, somebody help me in these comments out here on these streets. Because I can. What does it matter to you?

[Malcolm]

And there's no.

[Laurent]

Cause our daughters are watching. Cause the kids are watching. Now they twerking. Now they going to daycare. They twerking.

[Candace]

Okay?

[Laurent]

So that's why it matters. So now she jumping on top of her. You know the little bins you bought from the mall for the kids to.

[Candace]

Drive around for guidelines about when and when not to twerk? And we all get that. Okay?

[Laurent]

But it's just that I think that.

[Candace]

There'S a lot of policing on women's bodies over black women in their bodies. I do. I do. Yeah. Because. Because. Because I can. This is why we have this big thing, like, if you watch HBO and you watch, you know, Apple TV every once in a while now, you'll see a penis. It's like, oh, my goodness, do you know how long they've been showing us? And all that's going into the way that you are receiving us in terms of us being sexualized? Yes. It has a lot to do with the media. It has a lot to do with the way they were portrayed. Has a lot to do with how other people perceive us. But now if I'm just somebody who wants to dance on a table, I can do so because I. Because I can see There's a lot of policing.

[Laurent]

It'd be okay if I go outside every time we see a piece of.

[Candace]

And it's like, oh my goodness, that's not okay.

[Laurent]

You can't say it again. If I just go outside and swing my dick around in front of like. You can't just do that.

[Candace]

No, and we're not doing that either.

[Laurent]

Yes, you. Are you shaking your ass with IKEA or Nissan Ultima?

[Malcolm]

She's saying a clothed clothes.

[Laurent]

Oh, clothes. Okay, so I had on gray sweatpants. I guess that'll just go like this.

[Candace]

Yeah, you go right to the police station. Sure.

[Laurent]

Exactly. So.

[Candace]

But that's not what we are doing.

[Laurent]

Some little boys, like, let me go around, do the same thing.

[Candace]

No, no. You know what? I'll just wait for the comments.

[Malcolm]

You know what I love about this though? You know what I love about this?

[Candace]

I just wait for the comments.

[Malcolm]

Out of all of these episodes that we've done and the year that I've known you.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Malcolm]

I think this is actually the first time that I can't rock with you on that. And actually I kind of love that though, because we rock with each other on like almost everything. Like it could be boring because we rock on almost everything.

[Laurent]

But.

[Malcolm]

Yeah, I think you lost me on this one.

[Candace]

You know what? I'll help you find yourself after we wrap. Three words.

[Malcolm]

You wanna meet at ikea?

[Candace]

Yeah, we'll meet at.

[Malcolm]

The Speaker.

[Candace]

Can we just sleep on? Look, three words is food for thought. Because I can.

[Laurent]

No, you can't.

[Malcolm]

Hey, comrades. Come join us on our Patreon page.

[Candace]

Ah. Where you can get behind the scenes footage and discounts on merchandise and exclusive content.

[Malcolm]

We'll see you there. When work gets crazy, I like to stop by the bar after, have a few cold ones.

[Candace]

I don't drink at all until 4 o'. Clock.

[Malcolm]

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[Candace]

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[Malcolm]

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[Laurent]

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[Malcolm]

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