From Stolen Purse to Bestseller: LaJill Hunt on Faith, Fear & Finding Purpose | Not All Hood - with Candace Kelley & Guest Co Host Kimberly Latrice Jones

Summary

Not All Hood Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: From Stolen Purse to Bestseller: LaJill Hunt on Faith, Fear & Finding Purpose
Air Date: October 10, 2025
Hosts: Candace Kelley & Guest Co-Host Kimberly Latrice Jones
Guest: LaJill Hunt

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Overview

This episode of Not All Hood centers on the incredible journey of acclaimed author and screenwriter LaJill Hunt. In a candid, lively conversation, LaJill shares how a stolen purse set her on an unexpected path—from processing pain and personal setbacks to achieving literary success. The discussion explores creativity, community, faith, Black identity, and the lived realities behind Black storytelling. LaJill’s story is not only about writing but also about resilience, the power of mentorship, and finding surprises in the midst of hardship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Hallmark and the Opposite of Her Own Writing

[01:17-02:07]

• LaJill loves Hallmark movies, especially for their predictability and lack of anxiety-inducing twists.
  • “I suffer from anxiety. [Hallmark] does not mess with my anxiety because I know…it’s gonna be a happy ending.” —LaJill, [01:26]
• Ironically, her own novels are known for "end[ing] in an abyss" rather than with happy-ever-afters.
  • “None of my books end on a happily ever after. Someone said all of my books end in an abyss…” —LaJill, [02:03]

The Stolen Purse: Turning Point

[02:54-09:00]

• Shares the pivotal story: While working in Verizon collections, LaJill’s purse is stolen, setting off a chain of events that leads to her first book.
• Her then-husband’s unsympathetic reaction (“well, that was dumb of you”) adds to her frustration.
• At work, after a heated, monitored call with a customer, her boss, Bonita Jewett Coins, calls her into the office.
• Bonita gives her a legal pad and pen, saying:
  • “You’re always around here reading a book. You need to do something with that negative energy…Go write one now.” —Bonita, via LaJill, [08:21]

Writing for Co-Workers: Community Support

[09:04-14:41]

• LaJill begins writing during office hours, drawing inspiration from her co-workers’ stories—including the now-legendary blind date with “Derek” (pasta, cheesecake, rose-petal milk bath).
• Friends eagerly await new chapters: “It was something was lit inside of me and I could not write fast enough…Lunchables for dinner, Hawaiian Punch for the kids—because I had to write.” —LaJill, [13:40]
• “What I didn’t know at that time was I was being monitored.” —LaJill, on her call center job, [06:06]
• The group stealthily helps her print the novel at work to avoid suspicion from management.

Divine Intervention and the Road to Publishing

[14:47-22:34]

• Brings the finished manuscript to church; her pastor prompts the congregation to “touch and agree that God is going to do something miraculous with this book.” [16:25]
• Pastor jokes about tithing once it succeeds:
  • “And once, whatever happens…we gonna receive the tithe?” —Pastor, via LaJill, [17:04]
• Visits a Black bookstore for publishing guidance, leading to a comical phone call with Carl Weber (acclaimed author/publisher), whom she initially mistakes for an impersonator.
  • “You are NOT Carl Weber!” —LaJill, [20:34]
  • “I am Carl Weber.” —Weber, [20:36]
• Weber’s new publishing deal launches with LaJill’s book, “Drama Queen,” as the flagship title.
  • “The book came out in November and it went straight to the Best seller list.” —LaJill, [22:36]

Impact & Legacy of “Drama Queen”

[22:45-24:10]

• Kimberly highlights the book’s cultural significance:
  • “Drama Queen influenced an entire generation of Black writers, particularly Black female writers.” —Kimberly, [23:32]
• Dedications in “Drama Queen” honor Bonita and her supportive co-workers.

Returning Home With Success

[24:22-25:40]

• Church hosts her first book signing on the altar that first blessed the manuscript; the experience is both celebratory and humbling.
  • “He said, as you can see, this is fertile ground. LaJill is fertile ground. I would advise you to sew into her…” —Pastor, [25:31]
• Congregants buy books for much more than the sticker price in support.

Real-Life Inspiration in Fiction

[26:10-28:43]

• Reveals Derek, the firefighter behind her novel’s romantic lead, comes by for a signed copy—and later realizes the story is about his real date.
• After learning his role, Derek boasts about being story inspiration, leading all his firefighter friends to buy books.

Faith, Purpose & Perspective

[28:46-29:09]

• LaJill reflects: “God makes no mistakes…it was all purpose. What is a problem for you is an assignment for God.” —LaJill, [29:01]

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Learning the Craft: Writing vs. Storytelling

[29:14-31:24]

• Discusses becoming Carl Weber’s protégé and confronting difficult editorial notes (“red ink”).
• Kimberly (as agent/editor) notes: “The more red ink it is, the better your book is. If I’m not excited, I won’t even do the notes.” —Kimberly, [29:40]
• LaJill: “I was a great storyteller. My editor taught me how to be a great writer. There’s two different things.” —LaJill, [31:16]

Evolving in the Industry: Black Stories & Choices

[31:25-34:24]

• Rejects trauma-centered Black narratives (“rape, guns, murder”) as her creative focus.
  • “I have come to a place in my career where I don’t want to elevate Black trauma.” —LaJill, [32:58]
• Discusses TV development and the mandates studios send, specifying the genres and themes they’ll buy.

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Love, Life, and Identity

The Ambiguity of Love

[34:30-35:33]

• LaJill jokes about not believing in “the one” and views most of her audience as “delusional” romantics.
• Kimberly sees herself as a hopeful romantic, planning to be a matchmaker in retirement.

Class, Family, and “The Black Hamptons”

[35:49-36:51]

• Discusses shows rooted in Black middle-class themes vs. stereotypes from network mandates.
• LaJill describes family disappointment over a college pregnancy, navigating expectations of Black respectability.

The “Peak in High School” Phenomenon

[39:04-44:41]

• LaJill insists her emotional “peak” was high school—every day full of creative joy and belonging. Success after did not replace that feeling, especially as career milestones were tainted by private struggles (including surviving an abusive marriage).
  • “What y’all don’t know is, my jaw is wired shut because I was in an abusive marriage and my jaw was broken.” —LaJill, [44:39]
• Kimberly unpacks the idea of separating achievements (“what we do”) from core identity (“who we are”).
• Both celebrate the success of their high school peers and the ongoing support system they provide each other.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “I started writing because someone stole my purse.” —LaJill, [28:30]
• “There has to be a purpose for this. What is a problem for you is an assignment for God.” —LaJill, [29:01]
• “Drama Queen influenced an entire generation of black writers, particularly black female writers.” —Kimberly Lee, [23:32]
• “All of these great things were happening, but…it was such a tumultuous time of my life. So I didn’t get to experience any of the joy that was supposed to come from those moments.” —LaJill, [44:41]
• “As much as I love being a director and a writer...that’s what I do. That’s not who I am.” —Kimberly Lee, [45:12]
• “I am blessed to be able to do what I love today. And get paid doing it.” —LaJill, [47:35]

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Reflections on Love and Family

Kimberly’s Family Love Story

[50:45-56:41]

• Kimberly recounts her parents’ love affair—her mother, a formidable boss, and her stepfather, who eventually became her family’s anchor in a real-life Brady Bunch merger.
• The story serves as the bedrock for Kimberly’s belief in true, lasting love.

Parenting, Legacy, and “Smut” Books

[48:59-50:07]

• LaJill’s daughter shares at Walmart checkout that “grandma says she writes smut.” LaJill’s mom proudly owns it!
• Emphasizes the generational impact and sometimes amusing challenges of writing candid, adult-themed Black fiction.

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Service, Giving Back, and Tithing

[58:33-59:30]

• LaJill frames tithing and service as non-monetary, equating her writing and community acts with spiritual giving.

  • “Tithing is not about money. You tithe your time, you tithe your energy, you tithe your effort. What you put out, you receive back.” —LaJill, [58:41]

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Conclusion

This episode is a testament to the power of community, faith, and the ability to turn adversity—like a stolen purse—into a calling. Listeners are left with a sense of the real, unvarnished backstory behind literary and creative success in Black America. Laughter, sharp honesty, and warmth permeate every story and reflection, making LaJill Hunt’s journey both inspirational and immediately relatable.

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Notable Timestamps

• [01:26] Hallmark movies & anxiety relief
• [02:54] The stolen purse story begins
• [08:21] Bonita’s push to write
• [13:40] Writing fueled by co-workers’ encouragement
• [16:25] Praying over the manuscript
• [20:34] Meeting Carl Weber
• [22:36] “Drama Queen” becomes a bestseller
• [23:32] Influence of “Drama Queen”
• [24:22] Church book signing
• [29:01] Faith and purpose
• [32:58] Rejecting Black trauma as art
• [44:39] Private struggle behind public success
• [58:41] Non-monetary tithing

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Transcript

[LaJill]

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[Walgreens Advertiser]

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[Mazda Advertiser]

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[Walgreens Advertiser]

That's the human kind of help.

[Mazda Advertiser]

Walgreens vaccines subject to availability, state, age and health related restrictions may apply.

[Interviewer]

So when you talk though about, okay, this is the story that you want to happen. We talked about love before and how you don't necessarily believe in love. When you look at characters on TV and when you sit down and write, where do you get your love ideas from? If it's not kind of the irony.

[LaJill]

Is, do you know what my probably one of my favorite channels is Hallmark.

[Kimberly Lee]

Hallmark.

[LaJill]

Hallmark.

[Interviewer]

Those Christmas movies are something.

[LaJill]

I love. Hallmark. And it stays on. First of all, I love Hallmark because you know what you're gonna get. And because I suffer from anxiety. It does not mess with my anxiety because I know, like, oh, it's, it's.

[Kimberly Lee]

Going to be loved in all its iterations. Right. Like not just Hallmark, but Hallmark, regular Hallmark, Hallmark, mystery, Hallmark, you know, whatever. Whatever fast channel they have.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And there's something about those stories that are satisfying to you.

[LaJill]

Really. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Especially even as a writer, I would imagine.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And because you know what's gonna happen at the end.

[LaJill]

Every Hallmark movie ends on a happily ever after. Ironically, none of my books end on a end on a happily ever after.

[Kimberly Lee]

They just.

[LaJill]

Someone said all of my books end in an abyss. Like, you're like, wait, they.

[Interviewer]

All right, so let's talk about your books.

[Friend/Co-worker]

For people who don't know, how would.

[Interviewer]

You describe your books? Which you have many, which I find incredible because when you sit down and write, when do you write? Is it a morning? Is it nighttime?

[LaJill]

It's whenever a deadline is looming. No, I'm just kidding.

[Kimberly Lee]

But.

[LaJill]

Right, right. No, I just, I write all the time. I don't necessarily write a book all the time. I just write. I love just an idea. I'll write a spec script on a TV show. That I enjoy watching. It's just.

[Interviewer]

Just.

[LaJill]

It is my happy place. It.

[Kimberly Lee]

Creating.

[LaJill]

Just creating. Just stuff is just my happy place.

[Interviewer]

Okay, I want to know about Bonita because you talked to me before about Bonita. Where did you go back to Bonita and say, thank you, Bonita.

[LaJill]

And even tell somebody.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Tell us about Bonita, though.

[LaJill]

First of all, I love Bonita Jouet Coin. Yes. Like, she is, like, the reason that I started writing. I started writing because someone stole my purse out of a grocery cart. I had gone grocery shopping. I had. It was on a Sunday. I went grocery shopping that Sunday evening, and I took the groceries to the car and put them in the trunk. And when I turned around to the basket, my purse was gone. And that was like, when you kept everything in your purse. Male.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Favorite lipsticks.

[Kimberly Lee]

It was a cell phone in there.

[LaJill]

Or was that even.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I don't think I even had a.

[LaJill]

Cell phone at that time.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Oh, your favorite lipstick.

[LaJill]

My favorite lipstick. It was Mac Spring Bean Lip, Glassy Wipes.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Everything was, like, gone. And so your favorite lotion. Lotion.

[LaJill]

Your lotion.

[Friend/Co-worker]

L oxytain.

[Interviewer]

I guess.

[Friend/Co-worker]

But I went home. I was just distraught.

[LaJill]

And my husband at the time, he saw me getting the groceries out of the car, slam them on the table in the kitchen, and he was like, what is wrong?

[Friend/Co-worker]

And I said, someone stole my purse. I put the groceries in the car, and they stole it out of the basket.

[LaJill]

And his response was, well, that was dumb of you. And I was like, what? He said, you should have put your purse in first.

[Interviewer]

He was right.

[LaJill]

But that's not what you need in that moment.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And shall I add, former husband. A former husband continued, yes.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And so he, like, it added fuel to the fire. It was like, not only did somebody steal my purse, you call me dumb, like, no, you.

[LaJill]

So I was working at Verizon at the time in collections, and I'd gone to work.

[Interviewer]

Ooh, you've got all the stories, girl. You got all. And look. And all the rules we need to know. Yeah, so. Cause y' all cut the phone off on a Friday.

[LaJill]

On Fridays, after 2 o', clock, we would cut people. And these were house phones. Again, this is before.

[Kimberly Lee]

See, I needed this intel back then.

[LaJill]

Exactly.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So I went to work.

[LaJill]

And our phone lines would be jumping on Mondays, like, because people were pissed because their phone lines were. I mean, because they had no phone all weekend. So.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And we would do that on purpose.

[LaJill]

Because we figured, like, when you don't have a phone all weekend, you're gonna call us Monday and pay Your bill.

[Kimberly Lee]

You're gonna figure it out.

[LaJill]

You know, like. Yeah, yeah, look. Look at this. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Like you said, a little too late, but go ahead.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

So. So I got a call and this lady was going. She was going off on me.

[Kimberly Lee]

And I was still stewing.

[LaJill]

I was still mad, like, ah. And so we were.

[Friend/Co-worker]

We.

[LaJill]

She was cussing me out, and I was cussing her out right back. Cause I was mad.

[Interviewer]

Now, wait, let me. Because.

[LaJill]

Why are you blaming me?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Because you didn't pay your phone bill.

[LaJill]

Don't go over.

[Interviewer]

You were actually using cuss words or were you just like.

[Kimberly Lee]

I was like, for real. It was bad. She set up a great. Like, she was a great recipient for the angst you were feeling. You're like, thank you for this door.

[Interviewer]

It was just a tie in, you.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Know, I was like, you mad at me because you ain't pay your phone.

[Kimberly Lee]

Bill and nothing like.

[Friend/Co-worker]

That's not my problem. No, not at all.

[LaJill]

And so what I didn't know at that time was I was being monitored.

[Kimberly Lee]

Well, these calls are being monitored for customer assurance.

[Interviewer]

That's right. They do tell you at the beginning.

[Friend/Co-worker]

She and I are going back and forth.

[LaJill]

And then I feel a tap on my shoulder. And I turn around, and who's standing there but my supervisor, Bonita Jewett Coynes. Oh. And she says, mute your phone. And so I was like, mute. Now, here's the thing, okay. You know when these moments happen, all your co workers are looking like. Like the kid you dropped.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Oh, yeah, straight. The kids dropped the lunch tray.

[Kimberly Lee]

These.

[LaJill]

So Bonita tells me to mute my phone.

[Kimberly Lee]

And I'm like, yes.

[LaJill]

And so she said, transfer the call. Ty was like, transferring the call. And then she says, meet me in my office. So now everybody's really like, woo. So my friend sitting next to me, her name was Vonda Jet. Vonda says, you might want to take your purse.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Thanks, Wanda. Thanks for the encouragement.

[Kimberly Lee]

Thanks, Vonda.

[LaJill]

Rhonda.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So now I'm grabbing my purse and I need your yes to that part.

[LaJill]

Thanks, Vonda.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Okay, now you're doing the walk of shame with your pocketbook.

[LaJill]

I get my purse and I go to Bonita's office. And Bonita's like, legil. What is going on? So I explain to her, well, you.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Know, somebody stole my purse. And then Corey told me that it was dumb and da, da, da, da, da, da.

[LaJill]

So as I'm telling her all of these things that have transpired and how the lady was mad at me and it wasn't my fault that she didn't pay her bill. And you know, she just need to call to make a payment. Bonita is digging into her file cabinet. Okay. And so she proceeds to take out a legal pad and an ink pen and she slides it across the desk. Now vomiting already told me, take my purse. Like this is it. Yeah. So I proceed to tell Bonita, what is that for? Because I'm not writing my letter of resignation because that means that I resigned and I can't get unemployment, so you just gonna have to fire me. And Bonita says, nobody's gonna fire you, fool. And I'm like, well, what is this for? Yeah. And she said, lajelle, you're always around here reading a book. Uh huh. You need to do something with that negative energy you got going on. And I was like, okay. She said, go write one now.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I'm sure at that time Bonita was.

[LaJill]

Just trying to distract me from the people being mad at me from cussing somebody. Really. Right, right. And people being mad.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So she like, take it.

[LaJill]

And it was like, go forth and be great.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So I pick up my purse and.

[LaJill]

I take the legal pad in the bin and I go back and was she sad?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Here you are with a yellow pad. Yes. And so I was like, I don't know.

[LaJill]

She told me to write a book. And so then I had. Ironically, this was the Monday after Valentine's.

[Kimberly Lee]

So I guess the lady was mad.

[LaJill]

Because it was Valentine's weekend and she didn't have a phone. Yeah, you mess up a lot of her plans.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yes.

[LaJill]

So I had set a friend of mine, another co worker who sat across from me. No, I'm sorry. Joya sat here. Vonda sat across from me.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So Joya, I was like, well, Joya.

[LaJill]

What happened with Derrick? Cause I had set her up on a blind date with a firefighter friend.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I love that you still have faith.

[Interviewer]

In people to set them up on blind dates.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Dude, like, you gotta come back.

[Kimberly Lee]

We were saying the other day we wanna be matchmakers. Really? Yeah. Like old school called matchmakers and like set up like mind marriages and stuff.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I set up four couples and they still married. You're kidding.

[LaJill]

No, I'm telling you, the people that didn't listen to me, they should have just listened to me and stayed with them.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

Cuz it's like, whatever. Okay.

[Interviewer]

But so this blind date, the blind.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Date, Joya proceeds to tell me she. Wait, where did you work?

[LaJill]

Verizon. I started.

[Friend/Co-worker]

We started out at Bell Atlantic Child.

[LaJill]

And then it became Verizon.

[Kimberly Lee]

Like, yeah, you know what Verizon bought up a bunch of people. Because one of my first job, I worked at Air Touch Cellular.

[LaJill]

Oh, wow, you're going back.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah, Air Touch Cellular. And then Verizon bought Air Touch out. Yeah, yeah.

[LaJill]

So Verizon, Bell Atlantic became monopoly because.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Bell south couldn't be.

[LaJill]

It couldn't be a monopoly. So they divided it all up into, like, components.

[Interviewer]

Little baby bells.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yes, the baby bells get on the baby bells.

[Interviewer]

I'm from AT&T country.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Oh, okay. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Town, New Jersey, which is a headquarters. So we always had people come in and out. A lot of black families, especially transplants. Big A and T headquarters.

[LaJill]

Yes.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Still the big buildings are there.

[LaJill]

Exactly the date.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Okay, so Joya proceeds to tell me.

[LaJill]

That Derek invited her over for dinner. And he cooked homemade pasta, and he made salad, and she was like. And the dressing girl. Raspberry vinaigrettes.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And so all of us are listening.

[LaJill]

Like, ooh, raspberry vinaigrettes.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And then he made her cheesecake with the strawberries.

[LaJill]

And we're all in awe, listening.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And I kept saying, derek, Derek. You're like, I knew he was a good dude.

[Kimberly Lee]

That's why I fixed you up.

[Friend/Co-worker]

But I didn't know he was cheating.

[Kimberly Lee]

Cheesecake level. Good.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And it probably had a graham cracker crusher, Right?

[LaJill]

Look, nobody's calls are getting answered.

[Kimberly Lee]

Cause we're listening to Joya now. We're like, everybody's phone is on.

[LaJill]

Everybody's phone ringing. We're like, listen. And so then Joya says, and then after dinner. And this is how she's talking. And then after dinner, he leads me upstairs, and, girl, he ran me a milk bath with rose petals.

[Interviewer]

Okay, let's go back. This is a blind date.

[LaJill]

This is a blind date.

[Kimberly Lee]

They've never seen each other before this moment.

[LaJill]

No.

[Friend/Co-worker]

They've only talked on the phone. And he ran her a milk bag with rose petals.

[Interviewer]

I'm gonna see where this going with your writing.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Let me tell you why. So then she's. This is when they had, like.

[LaJill]

They had the speakers that come through the ceilings. That was fancy back in the day.

[Kimberly Lee]

That really was, like.

[LaJill]

That was a whole thing for the bachelors being hyped in music.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Oh, it was a white rug in.

[LaJill]

Front of the bathtub. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Dairy, right? So, like, the dairy. Yes. And so after the.

[LaJill]

She was like. Then he says, like, this is for you. I know. You know, you have a stressful job, and you had. Because Joy had two kids at the time. He's like, this is just your Turn. Just enjoy it. I'm going to go and do the dishes. And then you could just meet me downstairs. And so then she says, I was in that tub about two hours, she said. And then I went downstairs and we just had wine. And I was like, oh, okay. And so then I was like, that's it. And she was like, yeah. I was like, joya, what if you would have got pregnant?

[Kimberly Lee]

Oh, Lord, Ligell.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And she says, a nice date. It's like, you couldn't have written a better date.

[Kimberly Lee]

And she's like. She's like, where's the drama in this?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yes, let's talk about it. And so she was like, we didn't even have sex.

[LaJill]

I said, oh, but what if you did? She said, that would not be good. I said, but it would be a good book. I took that legal pad and that ink pen, and it was like.

[Kimberly Lee]

It was.

[LaJill]

Something was lit inside of me and I could not write fast enough. I would go home, the kids would get lunchables for dinner and Hawaiian punch and get a bath and go to.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Bed because I had to write.

[LaJill]

I just had to write.

[Kimberly Lee]

So I would write on the legal.

[LaJill]

Pad, come to work, take calls, type it up, and email it to my friends. And let me tell you something about.

[Kimberly Lee]

A good support system.

[LaJill]

I had never written a book before. I just knew, like, this was turning into a good story. And I would email it to all of them.

[Interviewer]

And so as you went, you said.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yeah, we'll get them a chapter a day.

[LaJill]

I was sending it out. Let me tell you.

[Friend/Co-worker]

They swelled my head up.

[LaJill]

Like, let's keep going. Yes. What happens next?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yes, let's go.

[LaJill]

And I promise you, I stole so much Horizon time because then I just gotta quit.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I was sending it out to them.

[LaJill]

And then finally it was done.

[Kimberly Lee]

And what was that book?

[LaJill]

It was finished. Oh, hold on.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I titled it.

[LaJill]

Well, I'mma get to that.

[Kimberly Lee]

Okay.

[LaJill]

So then once I finished the book, I, like, didn't know what I was supposed to do with it. All I knew was like, I just had these pages. And so I went to church the Sunday, because I finished the book, like that March. Yeah. And I went to church and I told my pastor and I was like, I gotta ask you a question. And he was like, what? I said, I wrote a book.

[Friend/Co-worker]

He was like, okay.

[LaJill]

I said, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it.

[Friend/Co-worker]

He was like, okay.

[LaJill]

He said, I'll tell you what. Print it out and bring it next Sunday and we gonna put it on the altar. And we gonna pray.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Oh, your salacious romance was going to the altar that you added pregnancy to what was in it. So hold on.

[LaJill]

Now we have like these like 250 pages. So we took turns, huh? I would print them out, like 25 pages at a time. I could not print out all 250 some pages because I was like, we gonna get fired. So it was like a relay race. Right? Right. I'll be like, okay, who's gonna be by the printer? So, okay, Cherie, you're gonna go. All right. And she's like, okay, go.

[Kimberly Lee]

So I would hit print.

[LaJill]

We would print 25. Sheree would bring the 25, and we would take it. Then Joy would go and pick up the other 25. And then Vonda will. So our manager, Bonita, thought we were just printing out accounts.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[LaJill]

They didn't realize that I was printing out your book.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Oh, my goodness.

[LaJill]

She's your friend.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah, but this is why I love her.

[LaJill]

Listen.

[Kimberly Lee]

Ingenuity.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Put it in a rubber band.

[LaJill]

Yeah. Also took the jump drive. Took it to church.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

And the pastor said right before offering, he said, listen, we have something special. But Jill wrote a book. I need everybody to stand and touch and agree that God is going to do something miraculous with this book. This book is going to change lives.

[Kimberly Lee]

Like, let's. Let's just go.

[LaJill]

Everybody stood, we touched and agreed. And so he handed me the manuscript. He was like, okay. He was like, I don't know. He said, but this book is going to change lives. I was like, I receive it. He said, and once, whatever happens, when we gonna receive the tithe?

[Friend/Co-worker]

That was a saddle.

[Kimberly Lee]

Everybody wins.

[LaJill]

Okay, Let me tell y'. All.

[Kimberly Lee]

True story.

[LaJill]

Not lying. Left church, went to a black bookstore, and. Cause now I'm like, this book gonna change lives. Yeah.

[Kimberly Lee]

So I go into, like, we on Touch the Degrees.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Contact app.

[LaJill]

Went inside and spoke to the manager. And I was like, I wrote a book.

[Friend/Co-worker]

He was like, okay, do you have copies?

[LaJill]

I said, no. He said. I said, I don't know what my next steps. He said, so are you going to self publish?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

Are you going to, you know, get a deal? You know, get a publishing deal? I was like, I'm going to self publish. He was like, well, if you're going to self publish, you're going to need a printer and a distributor. So I was like, okay. I didn't even know what self publishing meant.

[Kimberly Lee]

I know.

[LaJill]

I was just trying to sound like I knew what I was talking about.

[Kimberly Lee]

Because this book is going to change.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Lives, right that's what Pastor told you?

[Kimberly Lee]

Yes.

[LaJill]

So he said, I got somebody you can call. He takes a business card. He writes a number on the back. He was like, call them tomorrow. Next day, I'm at work. I tell them the book's gonna change.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Bishop like, yes. He done prayed over it, and we good. And I got a phone number.

[LaJill]

On my lunch break, I go to the break room and I call the number. This is what I hear when the person on the other end answers the phone. Hello? I said, hi.

[Friend/Co-worker]

He said, hold on, let me get a fish sandwich with cheese, extra tartar, some onion rings, and a strawberry milkshake.

[Kimberly Lee]

Hello?

[Friend/Co-worker]

What is happening right now?

[LaJill]

Hello? Hi.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

Yeah, who's this? I was like, my name is La. Jill. I. I went to Positive Vibes. Brett gave me this number because I wrote a book. He was like, who? I was like, brett from Positive Vibes?

[Friend/Co-worker]

He said, who is that?

[LaJill]

I was like, I don't know.

[Friend/Co-worker]

He said, what'd you do?

[LaJill]

I said, I wrote a book.

[Interviewer]

Okay. He said, what?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Hold on. He said, why he tell you call me?

[LaJill]

I said, I don't know. He said that I needed a printer and a distributor.

[Friend/Co-worker]

He was like, I'm not either one of those things.

[Kimberly Lee]

Oh, wow.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I said, oh. He was like, well, tell me about your book. I was like, it's called Homies, Lovers.

[LaJill]

And Friends, the Autobiography of a Drama Queen. He said, first of all, that title is too long. All those words aren't even gonna fit.

[Friend/Co-worker]

On the COVID I was like, well, that's my title. He was like, well, what's the book about?

[LaJill]

I said, let me tell you. It's about a girl who is still in love with her ex fiance, but she's trying to get over him, so she has a one night stand with another guy and she ends up pregnant. He was like, ooh, juicy. He's like, hold on, let me get my food. So he gets his food. And he was like, okay, so tell me about this book. So I proceeded to tell him about the story and this and that and the other, and we talked for an hour. Wow. And so he was like, you know what? I like you.

[Kimberly Lee]

And at this point, you just still don't even know what he does?

[LaJill]

No. Have no clue.

[Friend/Co-worker]

None of the things the guy told.

[Kimberly Lee]

You that Brett said you needed. Yeah.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So I was like, my lunch breaks up.

[LaJill]

He was like, call me when you get off. I was like, okay. I said, well, what is your name? He's like, my name is Webber. I was like, weber. Is that your first name or Your last name? He was like, that's my last name. My first name is Carl.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I was like, oh, my God. My favorite author's name is Carl Weber, too.

[LaJill]

I was like, he has two books.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Married Men and Looking for Love.

[LaJill]

And he's like, yeah, those are my books. I was like, you are not Carl Weber. He was like, I am Carl Weber. I was like, you're lying. I said, you can go to jail for impersonating a famous person.

[Friend/Co-worker]

You're like, scam went off.

[LaJill]

So he was like, it's really me. And I was like, no, you're not.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And I was like, now, mind you.

[LaJill]

We'Ve been talking like homeboy, homegirl this whole time, right? So then when he tells me he's called Weber, I'm like, oh, my God, Mr. Weber, it's an honor to speak to you. And he's like, shut up. Shut up. He was like, calm. When you get off. So called him. When I got off, like, we really became cool. He was like, send me your manuscript.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[LaJill]

So now I had to mail him my manuscript.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Cause at the time, we didn't have, like, it was.

[Kimberly Lee]

You can do the attachments and all that stuff.

[LaJill]

Yeah.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And so I sent it to him in March.

[LaJill]

And so every time I would talk to him on the phone, I was like, did you read it? Did you read it? Did you read it? Did you read it? He's like, no, not yet. I'm working on some things. Like, so at this point, I was like, I'mma send my book to Zayn. Sent it to Zayn. Got a rejection letter from her. I got one rejection letter in my life, and it's from Zayn. She and I joke about it to this day. So in June, Carl calls me, and now I'm like, oh, who does this nigga want? And three months later. Yeah, I gave me.

[Interviewer]

You were supposed to read it the.

[LaJill]

Night.

[Kimberly Lee]

To go as the impersonator in the game.

[LaJill]

And so I was like, what?

[Kimberly Lee]

He said, jill.

[LaJill]

I was like, what? And he was like, guess what? And I was like, what? He said. I said, did you read my book? He said, no, but my editor did. And I was like, okay. He said, and I'm just leaving out of a meeting with Kensington. And I was like, are they gonna publish my book? He said, I got one even better. He said, I got a deal to start my own publishing company, and Drama Queen's gonna be my first book. Wow.

[Interviewer]

Now that's a story.

[LaJill]

That's a story. The book came out in November, and it went straight to the Best seller list.

[Interviewer]

Stop.

[LaJill]

Drama Queen.

[Kimberly Lee]

Drama Queen.

[LaJill]

Here's the thing.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Lee]

In the urban writing world, black authors going to any conference, any event, any anything, and listening to authors from our era talk about the books that influenced them, there's about five, you know, everyone has the ones that they like, that they love, that they'll repeat. But there's about five that you're gonna hear for sure. For every third or fourth author that speaks, you know, you're gonna hear Fly girl.

[LaJill]

Yeah, Omar Tyree.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah, Omar Tyree. You're gonna hear True to the game.

[LaJill]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Sister Soldiers.

[LaJill]

Sister Soldiers.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah. The coldest winner has our ever. You're gonna hear. The coldest winner ever. You're gonna hear that. But one of the ones that you're gonna hear just as consistently is Drama Queen.

[LaJill]

Is Drama Queen.

[Kimberly Lee]

Is Drama Queen. Drama Queen influenced an entire generation of black writers. It's particularly black female writers.

[Interviewer]

Please tell me Bonita knows all of this.

[LaJill]

What else? Let me tell you, if you go to the dedication of Drama Queen to Bonita. To Bonita. Dread coins. Bonita, Vonda Joya. Like, everybody on that row should read all that because I never wrote to be published. I wrote to entertain my co workers at work. It was just I. There was something about them saying like, oh, my God, yes, send us more, send us more, send us more.

[Kimberly Lee]

We want to read more.

[LaJill]

Like, yes, we need more. It was something about it. Now here's the funny thing about it. The book came out. Yeah. They sent me my advanced copies. And so of course now I go back to church.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I'm like, the book came out.

[LaJill]

I got.

[Friend/Co-worker]

He was like, oh, you got copies?

[LaJill]

I was like, yeah, they in the car. Cuz now I know what this book is about, where it's like, yeah.

[Friend/Co-worker]

He said, how many books do you have?

[LaJill]

I said, they sent me two cases. He said, go get them. Okay, okay. And I was like, for what? He was like, we're going to have your first book signer here on this altar. And so I went and got Sex story.

[Kimberly Lee]

You're like, okay.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So now you was looking now.

[LaJill]

Now I'm looking.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Like, now I'm scared.

[LaJill]

Don't open the.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So now I'm panicking.

[Kimberly Lee]

This is for at home viewing.

[LaJill]

Because, like, it's like, oh, Lord. So again, I'm just being obedient. I'm being obedient. I go, my husband at the time goes to get the books. He brings them, we put them on the altar. Again, everybody touches and agrees. And he was a pastor, now he's a bishop. He says, okay. He said, how much are the books? I said, They're $15. You. He was like, now y' all can give her $15 if you want. He said, but as you can see, this is fertile ground. Legil is fertile ground. I would advise you to sew into her more than 15. He was like, I would. I would just go ahead and. And sew so that when. When her harvest comes, yours will too, because you're attached to her.

[Interviewer]

Wow. Baby.

[LaJill]

They was giving me $50.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[LaJill]

Dollar sold out. I was like, oh, my gosh. It was a whole praise party. And so he gave the benediction. And he was like, all right. He said, now before you leave from.

[Kimberly Lee]

Up here, you better leave that tithe.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Jill, you owed that man. He touched and agreed. I was like, nope, no problem.

[LaJill]

Weeks later, Derek comes to Verizon to bring Joya lunch. Uh huh. He's on his way to the airport because he has to fly out for a firefighter conference.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I love. Derek was still.

[LaJill]

Derek was still at it for life.

[Kimberly Lee]

Let me tell you, Derek lives up to his potential.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Let me tell you what happened. I'm like, oh, Lord.

[LaJill]

He was like, oh, my God. I heard your book came out.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I was like, yes. He was like, you got copies?

[LaJill]

Of course.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Let me sign your copies.

[LaJill]

He's like, okay, I'm gonna read this on the plane now Joya has taken her food into the break room to put it up. Yeah, I signed a book to Derek. Da da da da da da da da da da da.

[Friend/Co-worker]

All right.

[LaJill]

Joya comes back to her desk.

[Friend/Co-worker]

She says, like, oh, my God, did you see Derek? I was like, yes, girl. I gave him a book.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[LaJill]

She's like, what? You gave him a what? And I was like, oh, was I not supposed to?

[Interviewer]

Why? Because this book is all about Derek.

[LaJill]

The book is he do a springboard at least. Yeah, because the entire thing. The homemade pasta, right. The raspberry vinaigrette. The cheesecake. The cheesecake.

[Kimberly Lee]

It's all in there.

[LaJill]

The milk bath with the rose petals. Wow. Even the date after that, like in.

[Friend/Co-worker]

La, you continue to source them for material.

[LaJill]

Do y' all know Derek called me from the plane.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And I was like, hello?

[LaJill]

Like, he was like, okay, wait, hold on.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Is Joy a pray? I was like, no, no, no, no.

[Kimberly Lee]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[LaJill]

Like, no.

[Friend/Co-worker]

What's she out? He probably left the question. He's like, what?

[LaJill]

And I was like, no.

[Kimberly Lee]

Just like.

[LaJill]

He was like, what else did she tell? She didn't tell me anything else, Derek.

[Kimberly Lee]

I promise, like, that's all I knew.

[LaJill]

I said, that's just.

[Kimberly Lee]

So now you were the best man before the best man.

[LaJill]

I went, I was the best man before the best man. And now that Derek had confirmed that, you know, this was the inspiration, every firefighter, like, in Virginia beach was like. Cause he told him, like, yeah, my friend wrote this book about me. Like, da, da, da, da. So all of them were like, we.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Gotta get him some books. Cause he's a firefighter.

[LaJill]

Israel. Yes.

[Friend/Co-worker]

So I started writing.

[Interviewer]

That book got even better somehow.

[Friend/Co-worker]

It did with the firefighter.

[LaJill]

Yeah, it did. But. But I started writing because someone stole my purse.

[Kimberly Lee]

That's all it takes.

[LaJill]

It is.

[Kimberly Lee]

So if your post purse got stolen today, don't feel bad.

[LaJill]

You might have a.

[Kimberly Lee]

You might have a national bestselling book as a result.

[LaJill]

It was all purpose. And there. God makes no mistakes. It is like. And that was one of my lessons. Like, okay, there has to be a purpose for this. Like, I heard a woman this morning on social media say, like.

[Kimberly Lee]

What is.

[LaJill]

A problem for you is an assignment for God. He has you. He has the problem. He has it all.

[Interviewer]

I want to talk too about the fact that your writing career has now spanned decades.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I was Carl Weber's protege.

[LaJill]

I was his first author signed to Urban books. Like, his editor became my editor and what she actually did. Because when I got that manuscript back, I cry for about two hours.

[Kimberly Lee]

Cause of the red ink. Oh, God. The first time you see that red ink is wild.

[LaJill]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because that is the editor's role.

[LaJill]

Right. But see, Phil, it's teacher.

[Interviewer]

Have to take it personal.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I'm yo like, yeah.

[LaJill]

I'll tell you this, though.

[Kimberly Lee]

Here's what I've learned over the years from that is the more red ink it is, the better your book is. And here's why. Because if I read something and I feel like now as an agent, I'm like, if I read something and I feel like it is in such bad shape that there is nothing I can do about it.

[LaJill]

I don't read ink it.

[Kimberly Lee]

I send an email. And that email, basically, from an agent's perspective, that email is basically like, I don't think it's ready and it needs these. And I'll send a list of things that it needs and that they should get better beta readers and they should talk to an editor before they send.

[LaJill]

Back out script now, before you even.

[Interviewer]

Go in with the red, because it would be too much.

[Kimberly Lee]

I don't see where I could even fix it yet. It's not even in a place where, for me, it's fixable. So. But when I get it, and I tell people all the time when I get it and then I load it with red ink, it's because I'm excited about it, because I see where the potential can go. And now I'm excited to see it get to where it can be, because it's almost there.

[Interviewer]

Let me ask you, do you literally use red ink?

[Kimberly Lee]

I used to.

[LaJill]

Okay. My editor did.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

I used to. The ink color.

[Interviewer]

Just correcting papers with these students.

[LaJill]

I had to stop with the red.

[Interviewer]

They were just, like, taking it too much. Use a little. I was just curious.

[LaJill]

Oh, they would not have lasted back in it. No, no. Would not have lasted.

[Kimberly Lee]

No. And I technically still use red because now people usually send me their manuscripts or their scripts in. Well, especially with manuscripts. Not so much with scripts in Word, but when I'm doing the autocorrection in Word, it shows up in red.

[LaJill]

It shows up as red. Shows up as red, yeah.

[Kimberly Lee]

So.

[Interviewer]

So. So your storytelling, it feels like I was a great storyteller.

[LaJill]

I had to learn. My editor taught me how to be a great writer.

[Interviewer]

A great writer.

[Kimberly Lee]

Because those are different things.

[LaJill]

There's two different things.

[Kimberly Lee]

Those are two different things in terms.

[Interviewer]

Of where we are now in 2025 with the choices that we have. I feel like there are more choices. But you have talked to me about being a writer in this day and age and how you're not necessarily a writer to be that popular writer on the stuff that's popular now, like all of the inner city dramas that are feeling HBO and stars, you know, with power, which, by the way, I love.

[LaJill]

That's a place. Oh, yeah, there's a place, and there's an audience for that.

[Interviewer]

But you have said that that is not your wheelhouse.

[LaJill]

It is not my wheelhouse. It just is not. And I write on a mafia show. Like the Family Business is really. It is about a family that owns a fleet of luxury car dealerships, but they transport drugs right in the cars, like, whatever. But it's elevated. Like, elevated in the sense where. Yeah, that's what they do on the side. But it's more about the family drama and, like, the whole mafia aspect of it. So there's a certain level of softness that I kind of bring to the show because you do see relationship drama, you do see family drama. And so there's a place for me on that show. But honestly, I have come to a place in my career where I don't want to elevate black trauma. So I don't.

[Kimberly Lee]

Every produ.

[LaJill]

Most producers come to me for horror, suspense thrillers. They want rape, they want guns, they want murder. They want all of that because that's what they feel that the audience wants to see because of the success of some of those shows that have great writing.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And how does that happen?

[Interviewer]

Do they literally say, listen, we want a show that should have some rape and some deaths?

[LaJill]

They literally. Well, they'll say suspense thriller, but they're like, we need. Like we wanted to have. And that's what a suspense thriller is. Someone is usually getting kidnapped. Someone is usually getting abused. Someone is usually getting. You know, that's. That's horror. Is someone getting killed.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah. Like, so networks and studios, they send out what's called the mandates. And so the mandates break down, like what they're looking for for the quarter, basically. So you'll. You'll get mandates and you'll see, like, Apple TV's mandates and Amazon's and. And all of that so that your team knows what to pitch or also so you can look in your catalog of, like, what you're trying to shop and be like, okay, Apple TV is not looking for what I have right now, but Amazon is. Or BET is looking for it, or Paramount. But those mandates are very detailed, and they kind of are not looking outside of whatever the mandate is unless it's something that just, like, blows their mind kind of thing. And a lot of those mandates will say, like.

[LaJill]

They'll have.

[Kimberly Lee]

It'll say, like, family drama, but then it'll have, like, a subcategory that'll say high crime.

[Interviewer]

I see. I see. You know what I find remarkable, though, is that, especially with the two of you, you believe there may not be a love. You know, what's that? The one for everybody. And you on the other side are, oh, no, I'm gonna find that one. He's out there.

[Kimberly Lee]

But we write the opposite.

[Interviewer]

But you write the opposite.

[Kimberly Lee]

We write the opposite.

[LaJill]

And so.

[Interviewer]

But with you, when you're writing about drama and especially love interests, where do you pull from if you don't necessarily think that there's someone out there for everybody?

[LaJill]

Because most of my audience that reads my books, I like her. They're delusional. So if that. The disrespect that is woman. They're delusional.

[Interviewer]

Delusional.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Now I'm about y'.

[Kimberly Lee]

All. You know, we debate about this constantly.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I mean, I know that there is.

[LaJill]

A place for love for me. Yeah. I don't. I would be surprised if I ever enter into a relationship ever again. I want to coast out, set up the perfect blind date.

[Kimberly Lee]

Listen, I'm shocked. She's like a super matchmaker. First of all, she and I talk about this all the time, how when we get, like, when we retire, that's going to be our retirement plan. We're going to be matchmakers. We're going to, like, go around and arrange marriages and be matchmakers. The interesting part about it is.

[Mazda Advertiser]

A.

[Kimberly Lee]

Lot of her TV projects that she has written, like, episodic tv, not the movie stuff that she has written is based on books that they are her IP from books that her and Carl have written together. And so one of them is the Blackhamptons, which was one of my favorite shows. I love the Black Hamptons. Yeah, the Blackhamptons, which was one of my favorite shows. And it's closer to her lived experience of, like, a middle class, you know, black family. We didn't live in Sag Harbor.

[LaJill]

We didn't have that kind of money.

[Kimberly Lee]

But in terms of culture. Yeah, in terms of culture, I think.

[LaJill]

One of the biggest disappointments that my family had was that I got pregnant in college. And, you know, when I told my grandmother, like, and my uncles, I was like, oh, I'm pregnant. Their response was, you were supposed to be a debutante. What is the. Like, what is it for? Like, what are we gonna leave grandmother? Exactly. My grandmother made me leave Mobile to go live with Alabama.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yes.

[LaJill]

That's where I was born and raised. And she made me leave. She was like, you can't see.

[Interviewer]

That's what they did.

[LaJill]

You have to go with your mother in Virginia Beach. My mother lived in Virginia beach with my stepfather. So she's like, no, ma', am, not here.

[Interviewer]

You can wait. We gotta go back to that time. Because, you know, they do this on TikTok and Instagram where they say, okay.

[LaJill]

I'm about to re.

[Interviewer]

You know, that might be 15 years old. I'm about to reveal to my parents and my cousins that I'm pregnant. And they do it in order to get the views.

[LaJill]

I'm just curious, child.

[Kimberly Lee]

I was sad, like, nervous and probably terrified, right?

[Friend/Co-worker]

I was terrified.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

And the only reason she let me stay as long as I did, because I found out in, like, March. I found out late. I see my daughter's born in July. Found out in March. Oi. Yeah. Yes.

[Interviewer]

That was it.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

And so she let me. We got our midterm grades in the mail, like, the day after that. I told her, and I had straight A's, so she was Like, I'll let you finish this semester out and. And then you gotta go. So, like, the day after, like, class ended, I was. I couldn't even take my car. They put me on a plane. I was like, you're out of here. I tell everybody my first heartbreak came from my grandmother because I love that woman. Like, I was her beloved. We had a love relationship, but when I needed her the most, she shit me out because I broke her heart.

[Interviewer]

Does it look different now, looking back? And do you understand better?

[LaJill]

Oh, definitely. Because I tell my children all the time. I had the world in the palm of my hands. I was set up for success. Everything I wanted in life was within reach. And I got pregnant and my entire world stopped. It stopped because once you become a parent, your world looks very, very, very different.

[Interviewer]

Do you have siblings?

[LaJill]

I do.

[Interviewer]

And so they must have been like.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Where the jail going.

[Interviewer]

Why?

[LaJill]

Like, that was. Well, they were in Virginia beach with my mom. They were in Virginia beach with my mom.

[Kimberly Lee]

So she would turn to where they were. Yeah.

[LaJill]

Okay. Yeah. So, but then here's the.

[Kimberly Lee]

And you're the oldest, right?

[LaJill]

I'm the oldest and you're the oldest. When I tell you I was set up for, like, when I. And I took him all the time. I pe. I have to reframe this.

[Kimberly Lee]

Okay, thank you.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Friend/Co-worker]

This helps him. Apparently, we.

[Kimberly Lee]

We debate all the. We have a very healthy relationship in terms of debate. Like, we can disagree and we do it in a very respectful way. And then we finish and we're like, what are we going to get for lunch?

[LaJill]

And like.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah. Because neither one of us take each other serious because we both know that we are, like, like to have these, like, like, lively discussions. You know what I'm saying? This is the only place we actually fight is I tell her to stop saying. Tell her what you always say.

[LaJill]

I peaked in high school.

[Kimberly Lee]

I told her to stop saying that.

[LaJill]

Because everything I have ever desired in life.

[Interviewer]

You peaked in high school. Break that down.

[Friend/Co-worker]

How can you peak in high school.

[Interviewer]

When you're peaking right now? You write for.

[LaJill]

Thank you. Need to show.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I do.

[Interviewer]

You're dividing.

[Friend/Co-worker]

You've got development bills.

[Interviewer]

You got.

[Friend/Co-worker]

She is one of the most sought.

[Kimberly Lee]

After writers in Atlanta.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Lee]

So you.

[Interviewer]

Peace.

[LaJill]

I was happy every single day of my life from 1987 to 1991 was an amazing day for me and I was happy. I discovered my passion for reading and writing and I discovered television production because I went to a school that had a TV production program. Yeah. So in the 11th grade, my guidance Counselor. Because I was also blessed to go to a school where we had a guidance counselor where we met at the beginning of the year and the end of the year. So he'll be like, ninth grade. What do you want to be?

[Interviewer]

Right.

[LaJill]

I wanted to be a dentist. I don't know why.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yeah, it sounded good.

[LaJill]

I knew I was going to make good money. Like, ah, I want to be a dentist. End of the year, where you want to be? I want to be a dentist. Okay, we're going to make sure you're in AP classes. You're going to take this math, this science, whatever. By the end of the 10th grade year or the beginning of the 11th grade year. He was like, what do you want to be? I was like, I want to be an orthodontist. He's like, no, you don't.

[Kimberly Lee]

No, you don't.

[LaJill]

Right? No, you don't. You do not want to be a dentist. Orthodontist. You don't want to be anything in this medical field. He said, but what your strengths are, legil. Not math and science. Your strengths are English and history. That's what you're good at. So what we're going to do is instead of putting you in AP Chemistry and da da da, da, da da. We are going to put you in drama and TV production. I was like, really?

[Kimberly Lee]

Okay. Yeah.

[LaJill]

Those two classes. Oh, my. Changed your life? Changed my life. And I walked around for the last two years of high school with a camcorder, capturing everything. I watch it.

[Kimberly Lee]

It's all on YouTube.

[LaJill]

It is on YouTube. My Spur videos.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

And they let me. I learned. I learned to be a creative. I was the announcer for the band, whatever the songs the band were playing, whatever formations I had to write that. And then I would climb to the steps into the booth and be like.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Ladies and gentlemen, get on your feet.

[LaJill]

Coming to the field.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Or the John Lam Mighty marching rallies. She said it was a.

[LaJill]

She better go ahead.

[Friend/Co-worker]

It was a script.

[LaJill]

My uncle worked for the radio station.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I used to do drops.

[LaJill]

Triple the jams. 93 BLX.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Like I like listen.

[Kimberly Lee]

She said that you still remember. But here's what you have to understand about Leflore, because her high school is like. I've learned that her high school is a very different and special place. That's different.

[LaJill]

Said our high school is like an.

[Kimberly Lee]

Hbcu, but high school level, they have an all class reunion that they all go to every year.

[LaJill]

Wow. We do. And everybody from 1960, class of 67, all the way through the graduate school.

[Friend/Co-worker]

That'S where they got camera for now.

[LaJill]

Oh, baby, let me tell you, it is incredible. The entire city is painted orange and green. Like, they. It's everywhere. It's on the news. Like, it's. It's.

[Interviewer]

Let's go back to the peak, though. I'm have to be honest, at peak.

[Friend/Co-worker]

High school, do you think that maybe.

[Interviewer]

What you wanted just kind of manifested right then?

[LaJill]

Do you. Why peak?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Because it means I've never.

[Kimberly Lee]

It's not getting any better.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I've never felt that elevation of joy.

[LaJill]

And happiness in my life since that time. It's just and uniquely enough. Kim will tell you, myself and my high school friends, yeah, they're my safe space. Still. Still to this day.

[Kimberly Lee]

And they're all successful. Like, not even, like, successful, like, oh, Shawn got a good job. It's like, no, like, Leo is the producer who put together the Jeezy Symphony tour that we're all watching right now.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Antonio Lange is the coach for the Hawks. Yeah, yeah, like, all of that.

[Kimberly Lee]

Something was in the water in la, Floyd, that time.

[LaJill]

Best friends I'm talking about. We went to kindergarten together.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

He is the chaplain for the Indianapolis Colts and the Indiana Pacers.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So, yeah, we're talking a different level.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah, no, like. And all of their stories are like that.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Like, I'm talking about, like, daily.

[Kimberly Lee]

What you.

[LaJill]

What you doing? Like, I don't know what you're doing. And the fact that all of us are successful did not come to. It was like, that's what we were groomed to be.

[Interviewer]

So.

[LaJill]

Okay, question. So when.

[Interviewer]

When you were told, oh, my goodness, Drama Queen is getting published, and I made all this money, now it's on the, you know, bestsellers list. That wasn't higher than the Feeling in high school.

[LaJill]

No. You know why? Because when I was featured in Essence magazine, there was a picture of me. And when I look at that picture.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Because people are like, oh, my God, this picture's amazing.

[LaJill]

It's beautiful.

[Friend/Co-worker]

It's da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[LaJill]

And every time I see that picture. Yeah, I say, what y' all don't know is my jaw is wired shut because I was in an abusive marriage and my jaw was broken. So I'm like, yes, all of these great things were happening, but it was such a tumultuous time of my life. So I didn't get to just. I didn't get to experience any of the joy that was supposed to come from those moments.

[Interviewer]

And only, you know, the backstory. So I know why, you know, when you are Happy. Yeah.

[Kimberly Lee]

Well. And here's where I definitely concede to what she's saying. I don't like the ED on the peak, because for me, I'm just like, well, we don't know what the future holds. We could have another wave in a moment like that. But where I do concede is that. And I appreciate and I respect is I feel like we make so much about what we do versus who we are. Because as much as I love being a director and a writer and a thought leader, that's what I do. And the ideology, that it is so juxtaposed to who I am that it almost overrides who I am. I have found that especially in being a public figure and having to live so publicly, I find that very frustrating because I'm like, these are the things that I do. Awards are things that I get, you know, certain rooms that I get to be in. That's all great, but that's not who I am. And so I can concede and appreciate what she's saying. That saying I peaked in high school has nothing to do with any career or academic or success. It's about in that moment, what I remember is deep joy, happy every day.

[Interviewer]

And you knew what was going to be. It's kind of like the hallmark. You knew how it was going to end.

[LaJill]

I knew how it was going to end. Every single day.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Every day was great. When I tell you I got teased in high school, too, but I didn't care.

[Interviewer]

I thought it was funny. I was like, oh, my God.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I broke my leg twice in high school.

[LaJill]

Really?

[Friend/Co-worker]

And they joked me.

[LaJill]

And I'm like, oh, my God, I hate all of y', all, but I love y' all because it's so funny. And I had these glasses where I had the glass. The transition glasses where you would go.

[Friend/Co-worker]

In the sunshine that would turn dark because I was on crutches, I would.

[LaJill]

Have to put my backpack on. And they let me cut through the.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Courtyard, so the courtyard is outside.

[LaJill]

So by the time I made the classroom, my glasses were still. Now there's sunglasses.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And so instead of my friends being.

[LaJill]

Like, oh, my God, we could have helped you, they were like, here come Ronnie Millsap. And I'm like, I can't stand y'. All. And I would laugh with them. Like, it was.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I don't know. It was like, a weird time because.

[LaJill]

We joked everybody in high school, it wasn't bullying. It was like, oh, my God, y'.

[Friend/Co-worker]

All are so corny. Like, y' all are so goofy. Just good times and I also want.

[LaJill]

To point out I am blessed to be able to do what I love today. Yeah. And get paid doing it.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I will never.

[LaJill]

I am blessed. Like, people are like, oh, you. And I'm like, hold on, don't say that. I'm just a person that is blessed.

[Kimberly Lee]

To be able to do what I.

[LaJill]

Love and collect a check while doing it.

[Interviewer]

You know, I sometimes see life, though, that the peaks might happen like this. You get a peak. You get another peak.

[LaJill]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you. You know, I'm wondering.

[Kimberly Lee]

And peaks in different categories.

[LaJill]

Business became a television show.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And we like, everybody was like, oh, my God. TV show.

[LaJill]

My mom is transitioning from breast cancer.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah.

[LaJill]

And then even now, I mean, it's been five years. Yes. But every time something amazing happens, we had a. A screening for a movie that I wrote for bet. And which movie it was called, for what It's Worth, one of my greatest accomplishments. Okay.

[Kimberly Lee]

She loves that movie.

[LaJill]

Okay. Because I was so loved.

[Friend/Co-worker]

It is.

[LaJill]

And it's what I've always wanted. And it took some convincing.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Like, let me do this, I promise you.

[LaJill]

Right, right.

[Interviewer]

So.

[LaJill]

But it's like, oh, my gosh, the press is here and these people are here and it's on bet. And they did it did so well that they put billboards up in Times Square.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And you know, all I kept thinking, what?

[LaJill]

My mom's not here to see this.

[Friend/Co-worker]

She would love this.

[LaJill]

This would be great. Because when Drama Queen came out, we were in the Walmart and my daughter at the time, she was like, I had a two year old, a three year old, and like a nine year old. And so my nine year old was like, look, mom, it's your book. We were checking out. Me, my mom, my daughters. Yeah. And my daughter said, look, mom, it's your book. And so the cashier, she was like, oh, my gosh, is that your book? I was like, yeah.

[Friend/Co-worker]

She was like, your mommy writes books.

[LaJill]

That's really cool. And so then she was like, ah.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And so, like, she looked at the three year old, she was like, what kind of books does your mommy write? And my 3 year old said, my grandma says she writes smut. And I was like, Jesus, Jesus. And I look at my mom and.

[LaJill]

My mom said, well, you do.

[Friend/Co-worker]

That's what it is.

[LaJill]

And I was like.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And the cashier said, we gotta get that bag. That was just the PR you needed.

[LaJill]

Exactly.

[Friend/Co-worker]

But I just could not believe because I didn't know she had told them that. And I was so embarrassed because she.

[Kimberly Lee]

Meanwhile, it got you a sale, right?

[LaJill]

Right.

[Friend/Co-worker]

My mom was. And I was, like, looking. I was like, what?

[LaJill]

And she was like, well, you do. You do write smut. Oh, my goodness. Oh. And I tell. I used to tell my mom, my dad.

[Friend/Co-worker]

I told them, don't read it.

[LaJill]

Like, don't. But they wonder.

[Kimberly Lee]

This is my daughter.

[LaJill]

And I said, stop telling people. Stop telling people. This is not for.

[Kimberly Lee]

Just, like, church friends.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Stop.

[LaJill]

Anyway, my daughter wrote a book.

[Interviewer]

What's the name of the book? Tell them.

[LaJill]

They name your book.

[Friend/Co-worker]

No, but look what the seed of.

[Interviewer]

All that was planted over. That's what we know it.

[LaJill]

Really?

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, I really want to talk before we get out of here. I think we'll look at our time. But, Kimberly Lee.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You know when we talk about love, and I know where your love is in terms of your perspective about it.

[LaJill]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I want to talk about your perspective, because you really come from a different space, and it probably informs your writing in a lot of ways. What is your thought, then, about finding the one? Because you do believe in that, where you don't.

[LaJill]

It's not even biologically possible. Kim, the number of. The number of women born to men worldwide is like three to one.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Well, maybe I'll just have to be.

[Kimberly Lee]

Part of a harem.

[LaJill]

There you go. Throuple. You'll be at a throuple.

[Kimberly Lee]

I'll be wife number five.

[LaJill]

Exactly.

[Kimberly Lee]

And I'm okay with that.

[Friend/Co-worker]

That's something mad about.

[Interviewer]

But you've seen love in your parents. And I know that you said you described your parents love as a love affair. And I thought, that's so interesting. And I know my parents were in love, and my grandparents, everybody else, you know. But love affair, I thought was interesting wording. Yeah, explain.

[LaJill]

Because it was a love affair.

[Kimberly Lee]

Because even their, like, meet cute gives love affair. Okay, first of all. Yes. Well, it's in the Robot lady, my mom's memoir that I'm writing.

[LaJill]

Okay.

[Kimberly Lee]

My mom was my dad's boss.

[LaJill]

Oh, see, now that's.

[Interviewer]

She's like, oh, my God.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Now you got her attention. No, my mom was my stepdad. He thought she was a secretary, and she was the manager.

[LaJill]

Really?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Yes.

[LaJill]

Honey.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah. Both of y'. All. Yeah. Yeah.

[LaJill]

Okay, you go. So my mother was.

[Kimberly Lee]

Well, my mother and my stepfather met. And keep in mind, my stepfather raised me, so they got together when I was 4. So for people who know me, they know when I say my pops, that I'm talking about my stepfather. Cause he's the man who raised me. I just discovered my biological father three years ago.

[LaJill]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Kimberly Lee]

So when my mother.

[LaJill]

Ancestry.com.

[Kimberly Lee]

Ancestry.Com strikes again. Found him.

[Friend/Co-worker]

That is a whole.

[Interviewer]

I know many people have ended their accounts and said, enough is enough.

[Kimberly Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I got 143 cousins down in Alabama.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Enough is enough.

[Kimberly Lee]

Is it enough?

[LaJill]

You got siblings you didn't know about?

[Kimberly Lee]

Yes, I am the sibling they didn't know about. So, yeah, so my mom. And so my mom was married to my sibling's dad. My mom had three kids with my sibling's dad, with her husband. So my mom was married when my. When she met my stepfather. He came into the office. They directed him. This was at the Sears Tower in Chicago. They directed him. Actually, this is before they even built the tower. This is still when they were at the corporate office on the west side of Chicago. They sent him in to. He was a manager, and they sent him in to talk to my mom, who was over all of the mailroom and stuff. And so they sent him in to talk to her. And he flirted with her. He had been a recent. Recent widow. They sent him in to talk to her. He flirted with her. He told her she was a beautiful woman or something like that. And she was like, don't you ever disrespect me like that. I'm a married woman. And she, like. They said she, like, gave. Bred him the riot act and told him, don't disrespect her husband because her husband was downstairs working. Her husband was downstairs working as a security guard. But. And so he kind of, like, backed off, and they just became, like, work friends.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Lee]

And then she divorced my father and when I was 2, because my mom's husband thought I was his kid. Was not.

[LaJill]

Okay, girl.

[Interviewer]

Now, wait.

[Friend/Co-worker]

We only have Elaine. Don't you. She slap.

[LaJill]

All right, we're gonna leave.

[Friend/Co-worker]

We're gonna make it a bookmark, but go ahead.

[Kimberly Lee]

So make a long story short, then once she was divorced from my dad, then her and my stepdad started dating. At this point, my mother had moved us out of Chicago. We were living in Kankakee, Illinois, because my grandmother had a farm in rural Illinois in Moments, Illinois farm country. And so the closest big city to Moments was Kankakee. And so my mother needed help with these four kids after her divorce, so she moved closer to her mother. It's an hour and a half drive from Chicago to Kankakee. My stepfather drove to Kankakee every Friday when he got off work to be with us for the weekend. Wow. And so he did that until they got married. And they got married when I was 10. And then he moved us to Chicago into his house, and he raised me and my sister, and we kind of Brady Bunched it. My mom came with four kids. He was widowed and had three kids. They raised us like the black Bradys. And I never. I was telling you guys, my mother never pulled her car out of the garage, which led into the alley. He would get up every day of his life and bring the car around front for her to get in and out. And just the acts of service that I saw them do for each other. My stepfather retired before my mother.

[LaJill]

My mother would still come home and.

[Kimberly Lee]

Cook dinner for him every night because.

[LaJill]

He liked her cooking.

[Kimberly Lee]

Now my stepdad would cook. He wasn't like, you still cook, woman. He was like, right, right. He would cook especially for the kids. We would get up, breakfast, stuff like that. He would cook for us. But she liked cooking for him, and she knew he liked cooking. So just the way that they took care of each other and had such deep, deep acts of service and loved.

[LaJill]

Each other until they left.

[Kimberly Lee]

My mother actually went through therapy when my stepfather died because she had ptsd. They diagnosed her with PTSD from his death. So, like, seeing that and knowing that it's real and everything that the world tells you now, like, she was a single mom with four kids, and she was 40 when they got married. Nobody's going to want her. D. She. She found him.

[Interviewer]

So your belief in it is.

[Kimberly Lee]

Is very rooted in what I. What I saw and what I experienced. And I will be honest. Like, I don't. I. Most of my exes, we don't have a bad relationship.

[LaJill]

Like, me and my son, me and my kid's father, we're like, that's my dog.

[Kimberly Lee]

Because we didn't work out romantically. But she will tell you, my son's father, he. He had told me that once I had his kids, I was his charge forever. That that would never change. My children are grown. The other day, I just got, like, a random Apple pay for $100, and I was like, did you mean to send me that? And he was like, yes.

[LaJill]

Have a good day. Wow. Wow.

[Interviewer]

So are you on dating app? How are you dating? Especially as a public fan?

[Kimberly Lee]

I am not dating at all. At all.

[LaJill]

Girl, don't waste. Don't waste your time. You could be writing a script, Ms. Matchmaker, right?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Like, match, matchmaker, matchmaker. I'm just saying, I. Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match.

[LaJill]

Find me. Fine, fine. Catch me a catch.

[Interviewer]

What?

[Friend/Co-worker]

What? Kim is not telling you. What is she not what is she not telling me? Kim.

[Kimberly Lee]

I.

[Friend/Co-worker]

One minute. You one minute.

[LaJill]

That's what I was.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Time wise.

[LaJill]

She was dating someone really nice. Yeah, but Kim don't want nice. He was annoying. See, that's the thing about it. Kim's like, listen, a lot of people are like that.

[Friend/Co-worker]

They are. Because he'd be like, good morning.

[LaJill]

She be like, oh, my God, why.

[Kimberly Lee]

Is he texting me good morning?

[Friend/Co-worker]

But you know what?

[Interviewer]

And you know what I told her?

[LaJill]

I said, let him go. Give him back to the university because you don't want him. Let him go. Find somebody that's gonna say good morning back.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Kim, you're a friend of the show.

[Interviewer]

So when you come back, we're just gonna have. Guys, we're gonna get an update, right? I think we should just get an update.

[LaJill]

Yeah. Okay. All right.

[Friend/Co-worker]

Do I hear an amen? Amen.

[LaJill]

Amen. Okay. Okay.

[Friend/Co-worker]

And then I want to end on this.

[Interviewer]

Are you still tithing, my friend?

[LaJill]

Oh, definitely tithing.

[Kimberly Lee]

Hey, guess what?

[LaJill]

Tithing is not about money. You tithe your time, you time your energy, you tithe your effort. Like God did not say your tithe has to be monetary. I give back to the community. I give back to my friends. I get. Because what you put out, you receive back.

[Kimberly Lee]

So you make time for her and for both of us, which is why we're such a love match. It's just in us. We will hear a story of, like, some kid who needs something, and we will spend 48 hours, like, calling everybody we know and figuring out how to get this kid straight. And it's not for. For like, the public to know. We don't do that thing where it's like, post about it, like, we help this kid this.

[LaJill]

Right?

[Friend/Co-worker]

Right.

[Kimberly Lee]

You know, it's like it is. I believe God has blessed us both so much because it's just in us to serve.

[Interviewer]

And that's what makes y' all good writers, but more importantly, good people. Thank you so much, y'. All.

[Kimberly Lee]

Fun.

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