Gratitude Beats anxiety: The Science of Filling Your Cup with Dr. Karma Hill

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Not All Hood (NAH)
Episode: Gratitude Beats Anxiety: The Science of Filling Your Cup with Dr. Karma Hill
Date: August 28, 2025
Hosts: Malcolm-Jamal Warner & Candace Kelley
Guest: Dr. Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach

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Overview: Episode Theme & Purpose

This engaging conversation explores the power of gratitude, boundaries, and self-care to combat anxiety, particularly within the experiences of Black Americans. Dr. Karma Hill, a positive psychologist, shares science-backed strategies for human flourishing, her personal journey through health crises and caregiving, and lessons on advocacy and resilience. The episode highlights how intentional gratitude and caring for oneself are vital acts of resistance and sustainability, especially for Black women navigating a world that often devalues their wellbeing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Positive Psychology (03:37–04:34)

• Dr. Karma Hill explains that positive psychology is about "the study of human flourishing," focusing not only on diagnosing what's wrong but on “how do we still thrive and live our best lives and overcome challenges, even though there are real things that happen in the world?”
• Positive psychology interventions are rooted in science: gratitude practices, mindfulness, and “three good things” exercises are cited as ways to build more positive neural pathways.

2. Gratitude as a Pathway Out of Anxiety (07:24–09:08)

• Gratitude is presented as a scientifically proven tool to counteract fear and anxiety. Dr. Hill shares:

  “Research says that gratitude and fear can’t exist at the same time. So that’s one of the things easiest, it’s free, right? ...it actually has a physiological shift that happens.”

• The hosts and Dr. Hill discuss both deliberate and spontaneous gratitude practices, emphasizing their accessibility and transformative effects on mood and physiology.

3. Self-Care vs. Self-Maintenance & The Importance of Being 'Self-Full' (10:35–13:01)

• Dr. Hill distinguishes between self-care (“nourishing and refilling yourself”) and self-maintenance (like a massage or manicure):

  “Self-care is like, what are those things that you truly do that nourish and refill you?...that’s caring for myself.” (11:06)

• She advocates for the “self-full" mindset:

  “When I can be full and fill my own cup, like then I can pour out, so I can help you...But when you’re asking me, I realized I was operating from that place…a really depleted place.”

• Setting boundaries is fundamental—not selfishness, but necessary self-preservation.

4. The Science and Practice of Boundaries (14:16–16:17)

• Boundaries are reframed not as walls, but as “the meeting point of love for myself and for others. So it’s where we meet, and that lets you know this is a safe place to operate.” (15:30)
• Dr. Hill emphasizes that upholding boundaries starts with oneself:

  “The number one boundaries person who crosses your boundaries is you.” (14:38)

5. Personal Story: Heart Attack, Motherhood, and Advocacy (16:53–23:28)

• Dr. Hill shares her story of having a heart attack shortly after giving birth, exacerbated by persistent dismissal from medical professionals—a moving testimony to the risks Black women face in the healthcare system.
• She details how this crisis forced a transformation in her approach to boundaries, self-advocacy, and career focus:

  “Life looks far different for me on this side than it did before. Before, I didn’t have boundaries. Right. I just operated from a place of, if you need me, I’m gonna do my best to show up—even the broken parts of me and all of it.” (17:05)

• Discusses the different and often overlooked symptoms of heart attacks in women, emphasizing self-advocacy and trusting one's intuition.

6. Black Women, the Medical System and Intergenerational Patterns (23:28–26:59)

• Hosts and Dr. Hill discuss historical and current medical bias:

  “We have to then learn to advocate for ourselves. We have to teach our family members to advocate for one another. Because sometimes we’re not taken seriously.” (25:01)

• The conversation widens to address how this dismissal is echoed in other social systems—workplace, religion, etc.

7. Family Roles and the Emotional Labor of Caregiving (28:52–34:14)

• Dr. Hill reflects on her experience as the “point of contact” or “the heavy” in her family during times of crisis:

  “One of the most difficult times I’ve had, other than having a heart attack, to be honest, was navigating that care for her [grandmother], knowing that I got to show up and do all the things, I got to grieve in the midst of that.” (30:59)

• She shares practical strategies: group messaging to set boundaries, giving oneself permission to delay responses, and regulating emotions to avoid family conflict.

8. Resilience in the Context of Political and Social Turmoil (34:47–38:22)

• In a world flooded with negativity and bad news, Dr. Hill suggests intentional “unplugging,” being selective about news intake, and robust self-care.

  “We’re always building resilience and capacity, and that’s truly how I try to operate.” (36:14)

• Setting boundaries, defining capacity for engagement, and clear communication are essential for surviving tumultuous times; the episode touches on race, politics, and Black women’s leadership.

9. Daily Micro-Practices for Wellbeing (38:54–42:40)

• The hosts share their routines:

  “Every morning I list ten things I’m grateful for…And I notice when I fall out of that…” (38:58)

• Micro-habits like 5–10 minute meditation breaks and permission for stillness are recommended to stave off overwhelm and maintain sanity amidst the chaos of life and parenting.

10. Navigating Politics & Service Without Losing Your Soul (43:29–48:28)

• The group considers whether public service or running for office is worth the personal sacrifice in integrity and emotional toll, especially for people of color.
• Dr. Hill: “I can help from afar on the outside. I can counsel, I can guide…But, I don’t know if I want to be in it.” (47:27)

11. How Positive Psychology & Coaching Actually Work (48:28–50:46)

• Dr. Hill explains her approach:

  “We all have all the answers for what we need inside of us. They may be a little bit more obscure. They need, you know, a little bit more excavation. So I kind of look at my role is helping to excavate that.” (48:46)

• The work combines nonjudgmental listening, excavation with probing questions, and providing concrete tools for growth.

12. On Judgment, Curiosity, and Meeting People Where They Are (50:55–55:15)

• Dr. Hill is candid about dealing with her own biases:

  "If judgment comes up, I always go, ‘Where is that coming from? Because that’s you. That’s a you thing.’” (51:49)

• She echoes, “Replace judgment with curiosity.” (54:02)
• The group discusses how understanding doesn’t equate to agreement but can foster more respectful coexistence.

13. Processing and Releasing Emotions (57:51–59:32)

• Journaling, "unsent letters," and even talking out frustration in private are promoted as healthy processing mechanisms.
• Dr. Hill:

  “Process them and release them…I think a lot of times we get stuck and then they live in our nervous system and then they create some of those, you know…mental health issues that we have, some of the physical issues that we have, because that mind-body connection is real.” (58:59)

14. Breaking Generational Worry and Modeling Healthier Patterns (59:58–62:35)

• The hosts discuss trying to break intergenerational cycles of worry and stress, especially in parenting, and leading by example for elders and children:

  “By modeling that, hey, this is what it looks like to have this experience. It shows them as well.” (61:36)

• Dr. Hill and the hosts swap notes on sharing resources (e.g., Joe Dispenza videos) and leading with compassion—even if loved ones resist change.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On boundaries:
  “Boundaries are not...keeping somebody out. Boundaries, it’s a path that allows you to go, okay, here is where it’s safe for us to meet. So it’s the extension of me loving me, and it’s the meeting point of me loving you.” — Karma Hill (15:30)
• On gratitude and fear:
  “Gratitude and fear can’t exist at the same time.” — Karma Hill (09:08)
• On self-care:
  “Self-care isn’t selfish...I’m self-full.” — Karma Hill (13:01)
• On advocating within healthcare:
  “We have to then learn to advocate for ourselves. We have to teach our family members to advocate for one another. Because sometimes we’re not taken seriously. It is the—are you being dramatic or…you know, and it’s like, I’m not asking to stop working and be on bed rest. I’m saying, there is something wrong.” — Karma Hill (25:01)
• On politics and integrity:
  “I firmly believe that there are people who get into politics with the best of intentions, but because the game is the game…your integrity can really take a beating and your soul can really take a beating. And I don’t…I'm certain that my soul and my integrity cannot withstand that kind of beating.” — Co-host (46:00)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:37: Dr. Karma Hill explains positive psychology
• 07:24: Gratitude as a tool against anxiety
• 10:35: Defining true self-care vs. self-maintenance
• 13:01: The concept of “self-fullness”
• 14:16: Setting and communicating boundaries
• 16:53–23:28: Dr. Hill’s heart attack story & advocacy for Black women in healthcare
• 28:52: Emotional labor of family caregiving
• 34:47: Coping with political/social turmoil with resilience
• 38:54: Practical routines for wellbeing
• 43:29–48:28: The emotional cost of politics and public service
• 48:28: The “excavation” model in positive psychology/coaching
• 50:55: Nonjudgment, curiosity, and meeting clients where they are
• 57:51: Emotional release through writing and other practices
• 59:58: Breaking generational worry cycles

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a powerful, practical, and intimate exploration of what it means to truly “fill your cup” as a form of both survival and resistance. Through Dr. Karma Hill’s expertise and testimony, listeners are equipped with actionable strategies to rewire their thinking, set compassionate boundaries, process emotions, and model wellness in their communities—especially vital for Black women, caregivers, and leaders navigating a world that’s often unkind. The tone is warm, honest, and empowering, balancing science, storytelling, and relatable humor.

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Transcript

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[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

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[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

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[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

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[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

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[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

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[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

It was really confronting that this country, even in 2025 is still not ready for a black woman to lead and it's still based off of race, gender, all of those types of things. When we know that, you know, someone who doesn't meet the qualifications is still able to be. So for me it just set with so many different things and came up against a lot of my own personal but I was able to recognize that. So I paused for a moment and I'm like okay, what can I do in that? And that's I think where the positive psychology piece. Not that I can fix it. What do I have access to? I have access to the things that are in front of me and I really started to be intentional about looking at those things.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Comrades, welcome to Nah, Not All Hood. You're about to hear a pre recorded episode with our friend Malcolm Jamal Warner. Malcolm and I sat down with not just a psychologist, but positive psychologist and executive leadership coach Karma Hill. We had a frank talk about how to redefine who you are and want to be by just focusing on the good instead of the bad and what needs to be fixed, how to create boundaries, balance and belonging in this world, she let us and will lead you to those resetting practices.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

You can start today.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Enjoy the conversation.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

There are, you know, clinical, traditional. There are different types of psychologists. My specialty is positive psychology. And really the difference is positive psychologist. Positive psychologists take a look at human flourishing. Like, I mean, typically in your traditional psychology, diagnosing is thinking about all the things that may be wrong. Right, Right. But it takes the look at, like, in addition to the fact that there are some real diagnoses of things that may be wrong, there are other people that are actually flourishing in the midst of hardship because none of us are escaping that. Right. So it's the study of human flourishing. So how do we still thrive and live our best lives and overcome challenges, even though there are real things that happen in the world? So it takes a look specifically down that lane, not to negate that. You know, there's depression, there's anxiety, there's, you know, schizophrenia, there are other diagnosable illnesses and things, but that's not all of us. And there's more to be looked at as well. So the scientifically rooted in human flourishing.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Wow.

[Podcast Co-host]

So is there therapy? Like, like, is it therapy that comes along with the positive?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Absolutely. I mean, there are definitely specific, scientifically rooted based positive psychology interventions. You know, so there are practices. They're like, you know, one that comes to the top of my mind. That's one of my favorite. It's like three good things. Right. So take clients through a process of, like, each day you look for three good things and it starts to re. Rewire your brain to look for positive things. If, you know, hey, I got to make note of three good things that happen in a day. Like, your brain automatically starts to create those neural pathways to actually look for that, you know, gratitude practices, mindfulness practices, things of that nature. So it's actually real scientific rooted practices that we integrate in, you know, therapy or coaching sessions or whatever, you know, because you can integrate that modality with a lot of other things.

[Podcast Co-host]

So that takes me to, oh, where are we going? What's good?

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Oh, there we go. Look, that's with the positive psychologist. That should be easy.

[Podcast Co-host]

We're going to go with you first.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Are we going to go with me?

[Podcast Co-host]

That's good.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Oh, my goodness. You know what's good? What's good is that I am on a very long break. That happens to me each year from when I stop teaching till September. And when that happens, I'm able to do a lot of creative projects that I choose, period. And that creativity is no longer just Inside me, bubbling and wanting to get out. I can really dedicate time to projects that I want to do. Sometimes there with other people's projects, sometimes it's a podcast, sometimes it's some writing that I need to do. But it's always something that I can, you know, spend my time on the porch or go somewhere. I can just kind of rewire my brain in a different way towards something else that's. That kind of falls along with my creative interest and things of that nature. So this is just a nice. And the weather is good. The weather is good. Like, that is very simple, but the weather is good. And that's also very helpful in terms of just kind of that creative energy and making, you know, making for a good day.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

I love it. Yeah. Autonomy. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

It really is. Yes.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Love that. Love that.

[Podcast Co-host]

All right, Karma.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Okay. What's good?

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I think I have a lot of.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Good things going on. Right.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Look, we know she's got three.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Every day, one of the good things. I mean, right now we're in preparation for my youngest to turn 16, so that's a. That's a big deal. Party Monday. Both. Yeah, Party, dinner. All the things that come along with. With that. But she's not doing a big party. That's the funny thing is she's real low key, and she's like, oh, choosing 15, 16 of my closest friends, and we're gonna do, like, a little dinner thing. I'm like this little old lady. Like, that wouldn't have been my thing at 16, but that's. That's a good thing. For the most part, everybody is doing well. Like, you know, family's healthy. We're still celebrating. New grandbaby that, you know, he's only a few months old, so I think that's still good. He's all smiles, all happy, so that's also good. I'm finishing up my PhD in just a few months, so I'm not gonna lie. That's like. That's great. So, yeah. About to move into the. The data collection phase of that. So, I mean, I don't know. I could keep going, but those are, like, some really good happening for me right now. Malcolm, what's good?

[Podcast Co-host]

What's good? Ah, what's good?

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Besides your new beard. I see you. I just want to say that for the record, it's growing. I said, just don't turn Amish on me. I mean, you know, the good power to the Amish, but, you know, that's a good length.

[Podcast Co-host]

Okay.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Okay.

[Podcast Co-host]

Thank you.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Thank you.

[Podcast Co-host]

Gratitude is good.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yes.

[Podcast Co-host]

Right. And not to sound like New Agey whatever, but I was thinking about access to gratitude, right? So, like, if I'm, you know, having a bad day or just not just in a, you know, dark moment or, you know, downward spiral moment, negative moment, if you will, being able to access gratitude, because that's really always the first step to get me out of that. Like, it's hard to feel really bad and depressed and feel gratitude at the same time.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Right?

[Podcast Co-host]

So I've had to kind of go to gratitude recently a little more often than normal, but being able to be mindful of. Okay, like. Like if it's something, especially if it's something specific that may have me feeling a certain way, I go to the gratitude. And then if I'm feeling a certain way and don't know why, you know, then I can go to the gratitude. And that gets me out of that as well. So I'm grateful that gratitude is so easily accessible.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

It sounds like what you were saying.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, I just want to say fun fact. So that is a scientifically rooted practice for positive psychology. Right. And research says that gratitude and fear can't exist at the same time. So that's one of the things easiest, it's free, right? Like, accessible. Like all of us can do it, is to just start to think about some of those things that you're truly grateful for. And it actually has a physiological shift that happens. So, I mean, you're doing it even without knowing. Yeah, that's the thing. But, yeah, absolutely.

[Podcast Co-host]

Well, I listen to a lot of Joe Dispenza.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Oh, yeah, That's a given.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah, man. Yeah. And I think it's interesting, you know, when he points out that so often we are addicted to anxiety, right? We're addicted to negative thinking because that is often a comfortable place. So it's easy to kind of fall into that place and hang out there and be stuck there and not realize.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And not be alone. Like other people will, you know, gravitate towards trauma or negativity because we're attracting it.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

That's our point of attraction. Right? And every emotion we have has a physiological chemical hormone, hormone release that happens. Right? So that's where the addiction comes from. Because your body is used to, like, okay, if I'm anxious is what I know. These are the hormones and the chemicals, like, wait, what are we doing? I gotta find something to be anxious about. So I'm gonna then attract those things. So that becomes our point of attraction when we're doing those things. And, I mean, how many of us actually really knew that, like, no, nobody taught me that. Right, right. You don't know what to do about it. Cause you didn't even know that that's what was happening. You just, you know, like, hey, this is just what I have going on. But those are some of those things that when you can start to notice it, you can then start to shift it and do something about it. And that's, that's why I absolutely love Joe Dispenza. Yeah. I think it's a practical, easy way to just like think about it and change it.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah. And it makes sense.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

You know, you were talking to me earlier in the green room and you were talking about getting massage and just kind of really being into this whole idea of self care. But at some points you were getting massage, but then you were in the middle of the massage thinking about all your problems. So it really wasn't self.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Self care. Absolutely.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And so you kind of, you kind of function and are centered around this self care principle, which, which makes sense. And people think about self care and we do think about, okay, I'll get a massage, get my nails, get my. But that not. That is not really self care.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

It is not that. It to me that what. What I like to say. And everybody may feel differently. That is self maintenance. Right. We are maintaining ourselves. Self care is like, what are those things that you truly do that nourish and refill you? Like, what do you do to care for yourself? If you think about taking care of your kids, right. Like, you think about, like, what do they. What are their needs? We don't always internalize that and think about, like, what do we need? So I've since started practices of like, when I wake up in the morning before I start to deal with anybody else of the day, now wake up other than after expressing gratitude and being thankful for the day, it's like, what do I need today? And I might not be able to meet it in that moment. I may not be able to, you know, but at least I've acknowledged, like, you know what? I'm tired today. Maybe I didn't get enough sleep. So at some point maybe I can try to squeeze in and out, shorten the day, whatever. I've started to look at, what do I need? And then how can I meet my own needs? Because that's caring for myself. And that may be like, hey, I didn't. I had enough to drink. I'm dehydrated. Like, you need to drink some water. You know, you may need to get outside in Sunlight, different things like that. But thinking about like what are my needs and how do I get those needs met? And that's coming from a place of I'm doing that, not waiting for somebody else to do that for me. And those are the things that when we start thinking about self care, that's true self care, not just the external things that we do that should feel, I think that was the icing cake. I love giving massage. Clearly I get my nails done that you sure do like. So I'm not saying I don't do those things right. But I just know that like that's not necessarily the thing that is refilling my cup and that's not what's giving me energy in my life force. So I look for those things and I've now created a real quick go to I know what I need in order to be my optimal self.

[Podcast Co-host]

I know some people can hear that and, and interpret that as being selfish, right?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yes.

[Podcast Co-host]

But I think there, there is a level of selfishness that has to go into self care because otherwise you won't do it.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, absolutely. And I, and I just shifted the connotation around it because for, for many they can accept. Like I always tell people, you know, self care isn't selfish. But I also look at it as I'm self full when I can be full and fill my own cup, like then I can pour out so I can help you, you, you, everybody that, that needs it. But when you're asking me, I realized I was operating from that place, right? A really depleted place. And so I'm not giving you the best of me. Do you really want that? Right. Anyway, like even if you need help, do you really want somebody who isn't able to show up as their best. You want the best of somebody. So when I shifted the connotation, the most loving thing that I could do for those people that are in my life is to take care of myself. Like if I love me enough to make sure I'm full when you need me, I got enough to give you. Other than that I'm like, you want the broken down part of me? Probably not. Because if you got a need, you want somebody who is full and able to show up. And you know, that took boundaries too, like being able to really clearly enact that. But yeah. So to me I just look at it as shifting and going, not selfish, but I'm self full. And that really makes me feel a lot better about when I have to take the brace or say no. You know, that's, that's a hard one. You know, a lot of times when you're a person that likes to help and is giving, I can't do that. That doesn't work right now.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And I know that. Boundaries. People don't know them unless you literally verbally tell them. Because if you've been operating in a space where everybody knows, okay, I can call Malcolm, I can call Karma, and then you get in the cycle. When you do ultimately say, okay, self care is gonna be number one, and I'm gonna take care of myself, you have to tell other people that you've changed.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Absolutely. You have to start with telling yourself, though, because you know the number one boundaries person who crosses your boundaries is you. Yeah. Yeah. So I found that in doing a lot of boundary work with myself and then with clients, it'll be like, okay, you'll end up saying, you know, I could just do it this one time. You know, okay. So you have to first be clear, really within yourself, like what the boundary is. And I. And I think for a long time, I didn't have boundaries because I operated at looking at boundaries from a sen. Pushing people away and keeping them out. But what I realized is setting clear, defined boundaries actually told people what was safe for us. So it's the meeting point of love for myself and for others. So it's where we meet, and that lets you know this is a safe place to operate.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I like that.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Say that again.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

So it's. Boundaries are not. Because people do think boundaries.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

And I did sense. I did so. Right.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And you're keeping somebody out. You're saying boundaries, It's a road.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

It's a path that allows you to go, okay, here is where it's safe for us to meet. So it's the extension of me loving me, and it's the meeting point of me loving you. So we can coexist here in a healthy, happy space where there's no resentment. Because a lot of times, you know, I think we've all done it, where you say, you ask for something, somebody like, okay, and then. But they're resentful. Right. And vice versa. You're doing the same thing, and it doesn't feel good.

[Podcast Co-host]

So you don't really want to do it. You don't really want to do it.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yes. Comes from whether it's obligation, whatever it comes. Right, Exactly. Big thing. So now it's like, okay, I get to actually. No. And then I can communicate that. And I can communicate it in a way that is healthy now that. I mean, other person always receives it. But I feel good about it. And so we teach people how to treat us.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That's true.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

And that's the biggest thing we teach people how to treat us.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Comrades, if you're enjoying this episode, join the conversation and make sure to, like, subscribe and comment below. Na, na, na.

[Podcast Co-host]

And that makes so much sense when just the way you visualize boundaries like this being a safe space because. Because if we meet outside of the space, it's not necessarily a safe or productive space or a healthy space because I'm going to be feeling these things, how I've compromised myself, my time, and compromise this experience because I'm doing something I don't necessarily want to do right now.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yep.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Now you had a heart attack.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

I did.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

So I am wondering in terms of self care and self preservation, where were you in that journey to where you had a heart attack? I think you were at home, right?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, I was at home when it happened. So I had just had my youngest daughter. So I mean, May is a big month for me. Right. It was, you know, celebrating her, and then it's also celebrating new life for me because I had bypass surgery as well, of course, after having all of that. So. And it also just shifted. Life looks far different for me on this side than it did before. Before, I didn't have boundaries. Right. I just operated from a place of, if you need me, I'm gonna do my best to show up even the broken parts of me and all of it. I mean, because that's what I saw and that's what I saw. Model. You know, my grandmother was like one of the most amazing women that I've ever met, but she did not have boundaries and she did not take the best care of herself because she poured out for everybody else. And I modeled that. You know, I spent a lot of time with her and she was a primary influence in my life and my mom as well. But I definitely modeled a lot of like, oh, my God, since she's such a great person, this is how she does things.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

This is what it means to be.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

And, you know, and I showed up that way too. And, you know, on the other side of that, it left the I was this, the situation when it happened. It actually probably started when I was pregnant. But they don't really, you know, honor black women in the sense of when they are sharing. So I went to the doctor several times just knowing, like, that was my fourth pregnancy. So it's like, I'm not new to this and I'm like, something's wrong, you know, and then it was just like, oh, you know, let's check the baby. It's fine. So it was a few days after I had her, and I was at home when I had the heart attack. But because, you know, I've seen more now, I will say that. But before, I didn't really get a lot of the messaging on what it was like for a woman to have a heart attack.

[Podcast Co-host]

And it's different from.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

The symptoms are different. And so when it happened, I had, like, this intense burning sensation in the middle of my. My chest. And I had been having a lot of back pain. But now, mind you, you just had a baby. So. Right. Like, some of that is like, okay, is this heartburn? Is it just, you know? But I immediately, you know, went through the checklist of what they tell you, and I'm like, so there's no pain on the left side. There's no numbing numbness in my life, so some must not be a heart attack. It has to be something else. So I brushed it off, because I'm thinking, I got three other kids in here, new baby, you know, who were.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

You to be at a hospital? I gotta feed this baby.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Literally time for that. And that's literally how I thought. So it wasn't until a few days later I was at the hospital with her because they had admitted her into the NICU that I had a her. One of her nurses came in, and she recognized it because she used to be a cardiac nurse. So talk about an angel, right? Yeah, I wouldn't have gone because then it was like, her knees definitely superseded mine at that point. Like, she's admitted to the nicu. No way I could focus on what's going on with me. But she recognized it, didn't tell me, let's go across the street to Emory. Because we were at Children's Health Care of Atlanta, and she was like, let's go across the street to Emory. And just, you know, And I'm like, if they can give me some pain medicine to get me back, I'm willing. She like, yeah, we can make sure they do that. And that fast forward turned into, like, I don't know, three, four weeks in the hospital, bypass surgery. Initially, they told me I wasn't gonna make it because my part of my heart had already stopped beating because of the heart attack and not going to the hospital. So there was no blood flow, the artery had dissected. And then it was like, you know, grappling with that, like, the realization of, like, call the family down. You're not gonna be Here. And what that means for, like, four dependent children, one of which is a baby who you have no. No memory of me. Right. You're only days old, and, you know, just that journey of, you know, really sitting with self because, you know, it was lonely some of those days, being in the hospital. Like, you know, everybody else is living life, whether it was, you know, not saying that they weren't concerned, but everybody else went home at the end of it, and I'm there and really grappling with, like, okay, how did I get here? What's next? All the things that, you know, I need people to know about my children in the event that I'm not here. You know, all of that. And then, you know, so. So that's another thing why I celebrate life. So my life looks far different, you know, when I think about, like, those small, minute details that, you know, of life that I, by doctor's accounts, wouldn't be here to experience. I am. And I'm able to see that, and I'm able to show up that way, but it allowed me to be in my true calling and purpose, and I'm able to let go a little bit of the busyness of, like, what others wanted for me or what they saw my path to be, because literally, I was studying for LSATs. Like, I was gonna be a lawyer. Like, that was my plan. And then it was just, like, doing all of this deep inner work and transformation allowed me to really show up in the space that I'm in and give from an aligned place. So. So life is good. Life's good. Oh, my.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Talk about perspective.

[Podcast Co-host]

What are. So what are the signs for a woman having a heart attack?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, so the signs that I was experiencing were some of that is back pain. Right. And they haven't really clearly defined, like, why it looks a little different. Right. But it is. The more centered is back pains, neck pains, that. And maybe it's just the way in which it radiates out. So those are things that aren't to be discarded. You know, sometimes it is a swelling because I had full body swelling, but then I was pregnant, right. So then it was like. Exactly. But then I was like, you know, typically, it's like your extremities, like, your lower extremities that are swelling when that happens, not your whole body. And then that's what made me go to the doctor. And they like, oh, yeah, you're good. But that was because the blood is not circulating and flowing properly. But so those are some of those things to really pay attention To. But we'll discard it. And like, oh, you know, back then hurt. And. And then it's like, yeah, but you got a real serious issue that you're not taking care of. And mind you, but I was not overweight. I did not eat bad, any of that. So a lot of times people think, like, oh, it has to look a certain way. I was smaller than I am now. Right. I mean, literally, I exercise and worked up, out. Up until, like, maybe a couple of weeks before I had her. Like, I still was, you know, walking a couple of miles. Like, I was active. You know, always had a great diet, so. But I wasn't living from a balanced place. Right. Truly. I took on everybody else's stuff, and I was not prioritizing myself. I made sure everybody else's needs got met before I even began to thought of, think about myself. And you can't show up that way.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Women do that a lot.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

We do. I mean, women do that condition to do, like, you're strong, right? Yeah. And then, especially as black women, like, that's that, you know, that's that trope, right? Yeah. Like, you know, strong black women. And so, of course, you didn't have that mental internal dialogue that says, like, is it okay for me to stop and take care of me? You know, or am I just being dramatic? Right. You know, is this the, you know, that type of thing? That's an internal dialogue.

[Podcast Co-host]

So speaking to that, because you mentioned something I would really love to talk about about is how hospitals and doctors don't necessarily honor a woman expressing complaints about not feeling a certain way. Black women in particular, they don't listen to them, as they would take a white woman's complaints, expressions of pain seriously. And that's been a historical. And so that was. That was your. Your personal experience.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

At the hospital.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah. Real life before the hospital. Because I started, like, maybe at about six months saying, like, okay, something doesn't feel right. I knew to get out my car from my parking deck to walk to my building, I would have to pause, and I was out of breath. I've done this before. I'm like, there's no reason I can't walk from here to there. I know this feels different. Like, I know it feels different. Yeah, I'm a little older than I was when I had, you know, the other three, but I'm not old. I was 32. So I'm not. And I'm active. I'm, you know, even, you know, now. And I'm like, okay, this feels different. So I'M telling them that I'm like, there's something wrong. Like, I can just feel it. Like, I know within myself something's wrong. And it had gotten to the point where they would be like, oh, let's check the baby. Heart rate's good. And I'm like, I'm not even concerned about the baby. Like, there's something wrong with me. I knew it. But then it was just, no, you're fine. You know. Yeah. Maybe you just, you know, it's just different this time. Each pregnancy is different. But I was scheduled the appointment. It's like, hey, I'm swelling. Literally out of nowhere, like, something's wrong. And it was just. It was dismissed, like, yeah, you're fine. So we don't get taken seriously. And then. Because, of course, we're not doctors right now, like, you don't know. But I'm like, I know me. I live with me every day. I know that there is something wrong. And so we have to then learn to advocate for ourselves. We have to teach our family members to advocate for one another. Because sometimes we're not taken seriously. It is the. Are you being dramatic or. You know, and it's like, I'm not asking to stop working and be on bar risk. I'm saying, there is something wrong. I should be able to walk from here to here without being short of breath. And clearly it was something wrong. Right.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And that translates into so many other experiences, for sure. In terms of work experiences, how black women are regarded, how black women are regarded in. I mean, we could talk about religion.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

We can talk about. We can go on and on. But so.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

So it's really just a continuation, just the advocacy portion of it. When you are in a hospital, you have to be a doctor, an advocate, the family member, too. You have to be all of those things. Yeah. Squeaky wheel.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And so many black women die between the ages of like, 34 and 54 or 60. If I hear of a black woman dying, like, you know, friends within the family. In fact, a girlfriend called me a couple months ago. She was crying, and she said, oh, my goodness. My line sister, she died down in Tennessee. And I said, heart attack or stroke. Yeah, it's normally one of those two.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

At this.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

It's a leading cause.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That's right.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Of death. And it's like, I mean, in 2025. Yeah. But it. It still is. And it is, you know, of course, you know, we have to then be active and proactive, I would say, in our own lifestyles and that type of thing. But we also, I mean it, within medical communities, within, you know, what are the support and the resources that we have access to, because all of those things matter and there's education and pieces that we just don't know. Like, if I had known that information day one, I would have went to the hospital. I wouldn't have thought about like all of the. But. But I didn't know, you know, and that's not things that you know that are shared readily. So I'm always like trying to be a voice of advocacy in any space. I mean, whether it's 1, 10, 20, 100, like, hey, you know, trust yourself. Like, and then we also don't trust our own intuition and our own instincts because we're conditioned away from that. Like, you know, others know best. I left because when we were in the hospital, my grandmother, she stayed with me a lot in the hospital. And she will be like, you give these doctors such a hard time. But I'm like, they don't know me better than me. So I'm like, you know, I'm asking the question. She like, you know, they know and, but. And it really came from the best. I mean, there's nobody that probably could love me more than she did. Right, but that was your old way of thinking, you know, she's born in 1930, so you're like, hey, exactly. And I'm like, I'm not giving these. These people don't even know me. Like, literally, I just showed up here like, yeah, no, I know me. So I mean, you know, we have to make sure that we are doing that. But fast forward, like, I was her biggest advocate, you know, towards the end of her life as well. And she going even down to like, they would ask her something as simple like, hey, how you feeling today? And she look at me, I'm like, you know how you feel? That's okay. You got, you got that one like you. But yeah, so, you know, full circle. It was like, hey, yeah, we have to be able to advocate for ourselves and for our loved ones. But I trust ourselves. We gotta trust ourselves.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

You know, you say that you were there next to your grandmother's side. I'm sure that there were other people, other siblings, family members. There's normally what I call a heavy, like one person who's like, I'm the point of contact. I'm the whoever that's going to be the person that you come to ask the questions to.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

How did that happen?

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I'm always interested in finding out how the heavy, as I call it, ends up being the one who is the go to person who. Because that also means establishing boundaries. Because now you're making all decisions, and then you got all these people in your ear at the time where, you know, someone's in a hospital, everybody's all vulnerable. It can be so messy, you know? I know. Even within my very sane, polite family, we turned into a whole Tyler Perry movie.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah. It was like, right?

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Oh, wow. It just. It was like light switched on. My sister and I laugh about it now because I'm like, what did she just say? What did I just say? It was really just out of nowhere.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

When someone's sick. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

The emotions. So the navigation of that with your positive psychology.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

How did you come to an end or a decision?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah. So I would say I was fortunate because I had a lot of these skills, tools, and resources when that happened. She. She passed in 2021. But I had already been navigating the care. So my grandmother was older. She provided care for my aunt who had multiple sclerosis. And then my mom, who's still alive, has multiple sclerosis. So it was kind of like the three of them that I had the responsibility for. I'm also the oldest girl. My brother is older than me, and then it's me. Then it's my sister and my cousin. But the four of us were kind of raised together. But being that my mom and my aunt both had multiple sclerosis, of course things kind of got deferred to me. And then me and my grandmother are super close. Right. So some of that kind of naturally happened. But then you can say you were her favorite. I mean, I don't feel that way. You were, Rob.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I'm just gonna toss the bridge girl. You could just say it.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Me and my grandma are close. We were super close. But I'm sure, like, everybody had their own relationship.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

So, I mean, the translation.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

She was my best friend. Okay, sure. I can definitely tell you that, like, I was that person she called, like, you know, all the time, like, non stop. But we were. We had, you know, so it kind of just became like, I'm a very independent person. And I'm also. I think I've always been a really empathetic, compassionate and intuitive person. So I think some of it kind of just naturally where I can watch what's going on and then the craziness of, you know, because everybody. Family is crazy. Right. Like, in the craziness of things happening, I recognize, like, okay, here is. Here are some things that need to be done. And I'm one of Those, you know, you ain't got to wait and tell me. If I see it, I can do it. And I think so. Some of it naturally happened, which at times, yes, everybody. Then when she started to get sick and older had input, but I understood I need to regulate my own emotions. Right. And then I need to be able to separate the two. So I also know there are practices and things that I need to make sure that I am doing for myself in order to show up best for her. One of the most difficult times I've had, other than having a heart attack, to be honest, was navigating that care for her, knowing that I got to show up and do all the things. I got to grieve in the midst of that. Like, this is a person that, like, our lives were really intertwined. And though I knew she was old, you know, she didn't seem that old to me. Right.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

So it's like, it will never happen.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Right? Right. So it's like what I'm supposed to do, you know? And, you know, she would always say when we go to the doctor, like, you know, I don't know what I would do without karma. And, you know, honestly, when that happened, when she passed, that came, like, what am I supposed to do without her? But fortunately, I did have the tools. So I knew, like, the things that refilled my cup, I had those boundaries in place. So I knew, like, hey, I'm not gonna just respond to calls and text messages all day, all night. Like, for myself and my sanity. What's my priority? My priority is to show up and make sure I'm the best me. And then my second priority is to make sure I'm taking care of her. Then I can disseminate information. So I would just, you know, like, hey, I'm group text. Like, I can share the information and I can respond back. I get to choose that. I think with this day and age, with cell phones and all that, we feel like if somebody is calling and texting, you gotta respond right away. And I don't subscribe to that. I feel like I can get back to you when I feel like the time is right, you know? Right. There are some times, like, people had to call me a couple of times, and some of my friends, they know, so I love my friends because they like girls.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And I'm like, 18 days now. What are you doing? What are you doing?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

You know, I got one friend, like, I'm gonna pull up, right. You're in callback. So, you know, But I do feel like we don't have to have that. And that's one of those things I had to condition myself away from. My son helped me with that because he put his phone on. Do not disturb. This was some years I was like, I can't go, like, do not disturb. Like, what you mean? But then I had to sit with it and say, you can do that. Like, I can give myself permission. The only reason I don't is because I choose not to. And sometimes you need that. So I had to utilize some of those things when I was going through caregiving and making sure, like, okay, this is a boundary. Plus I want to make sure I show up appropriately because of course, you know, during that heated emotional phase. Yeah, there are some things that can get said that then can carry on long lasting. So. And I didn't want to be a part of perpetuating that. So taking care of myself, that self care piece was, was vital during that time.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah. So you have to. To lead with that.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Gotta lead with it on a daily basis every day. Like, that's always something that's, you know, running in my mind. If, even if I can't meet my needs right now, like, what is it that I need, you know, to make sure I'm taking care of myself the same way I did when I was caring for a baby. You know, they can't meet their needs. You're doing it, but you gotta take care of yourself the same way. And so, and that's a retraining for me. Nobody taught me that. Like, I didn't know that. So I always try to push that to others, like every step of the way. We need to make sure we're taking care of ourselves. That's our responsibility.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Positive psychology. So, you know, in, in this 2025 that we're living in, where you turn on the TV or even just talk to people, you can't get away with all of these things that are negative. And it's really making people nervous.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

It is.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And anxious. I mean, if you want to buy a car, buy a house, or, you know, you headed up the D program.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

At work, all that's changed all of that. Oh my God, there ain't no D. A lot of those have gone away. There are a lot of people who literally lost jobs. Yeah. Transition, like, I mean, it's been real within the workspace, really.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Very much so. So the positive psychology, being inundated with things every day, I've missed some major things. And I, and I watch the news and then someone will tell me something. I say, wait, what?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

What Happened with Harriet Tubman.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Wait, what are they saying? There was no underground world or whatever.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Right.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

You know, but there's so much going on. The positive psychology. How do you. Someone came to you counsel them or, you know, lead them to a better water. When every day something is happening that literally affects you. Someone told me, make sure you download your Social Security benefits so you can see what they are in case they change. And down the line they look totally different. At least you know what they.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

What they were. Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That's really good advice. Everybody download, right?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, for sure.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Truly. Because you don't, you know, you may not know, but with that in mind, you know, what is the.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

The.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

The potion to fix that?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

So, I mean, honestly, I don't know that there is a fix. Right. I think we're always building resilience and capacity, and that's truly how I try to operate. I mean, we can't get around that some negative things are happening. I think I accepted that, you know, Election day, honestly, when it was like, all right, like, this is. This is where we're headed. And I started to look at it from a place of like, you know, adaptive resilience. How are we building our resilience? So what is it that you need to do for you? I understood for those first, maybe like that first week, first two weeks. Not that I didn't know that it was a strong possibility that the election could go in that direction. I didn't think it would have had as much of a personal impact on me as it did. Right. Because it was kind of like this could happen. But I think it was really confronting that this country, even in 2025, is still not ready for a black woman to lead. And it's still based off of race, gender, all of those types of things. When we know that someone who doesn't meet the qualifications is still able to be. So for me, it just set with so many different things and came up against a lot of my own personal. But I was able to recognize that. So I paused for a moment and I'm like, okay, what can I do in that? And that's, I think, where the positive psychology piece, not that I can fix it. What do I have access to? I have access to the things that are in front of me. And I really started to be intentional about looking at those things. One was unplug. Like, I'm not going to be able to sit and look at that consistently. So I have times of the day I don't actually watch the news, but I have selected news Sources. And then I have people. And then there were some that I had to say. Give me a moment. I don't really need every, you know, news article. Like, I don't need all of that right now. I just need to sit with some things. So being able to, you know, communicate that, that was a boundary at that point. Right now, I'm not ready to engage there. When I am, we can have some of those conversations. So I think in any challenging time, being able to be clear that there's uncertainty, we don't know what's ahead. Like, I mean, we're still. In all honesty, there's so much that's happened. We're really on the early side of this, you know.

[Podcast Co-host]

No doubt.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah. You know, like, literally just about to be 100 days. Right. Like, we're just entering into that. So we're still early in it. But where do we have capacity to engage? I think is some of those key questions that we can ask ourselves. How are we building resilience? What are some of those things that we are doing to make sure that we are fortifying ourselves in the midst of a lot of these things? So when you think about it, like, what are some of the things that you're doing to make sure that in the midst of all of this and all the changes that you're doing to take care of you?

[Podcast Co-host]

I know for me, it's my. We're talking about morning gratitude.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

I actually do a gratitude list. I do, like. Like every morning I list 10 things I'm grateful for. And oftentimes, you know, those things may repeat because I don't. I don't lose gratitude for them. And I notice when I fall out of that, like, again, you know, wake up in the morning and I'm rushing for something, I'll go, okay, well, I can skip that today, you know, and then that started. Then that. That one day becomes two days. So I definitely can catch myself in those cycles. And I know the difference. I can. I can experience a difference in those days when I don't start my day with that versus when I do.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Okay.

[Podcast Co-host]

And I've also have had to be mindful of taking breaks, like, in the middle of the day. Like, sometimes it's like, you know what? Let me set my timer. I'm gonna go up to this meditation room, close the door, and just, you know, be out for 10, 20 minutes, sometimes 30 minutes, depending on how much I need it.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

And there are days where I actually need it more often than not, more often than other days. But then Some days, you know, the days just go by and I'm like, I didn't. I'm feeling a certain level of stress.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Right.

[Podcast Co-host]

You know, because I didn't take that time to take a break. And I think before, you know, it always, it kind of sounded like, oh, that's a cool thing to do. We should kind of do that. But then when I would do it again, I would definitely. I can definitely experience the difference when I don't take that time and being, you know, being a parent and, you know, work and music and just all of the things that go, you know, with what I do. What I found is if I don't have that clarity, and oftentimes I go through periods where I don't necessarily. I know that there are things I have to do, but I don't necessarily have the clarity. And then that's when I find myself struggling with oral overwhelm. And oftentimes have to just like, let me stop. Let me stop. Let me just be still. And then even that's challenging too, because you want to stop and be still. But then you start thinking about all these things that I have to do, or I didn't do, or I forgot to make that phone call, and forcing yourself to just be still and let all those thoughts happen. And so I guess it's a meditation in a way.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, it is. Right, right. But.

[Podcast Co-host]

But those aren't necessarily times where I sit and I say, okay, I'm going to meditate. It's just sitting still. And sometimes if you're meditating and if you have a mantra while you're meditating, it's a little easier. But sometimes just being still is really challenging.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, it is. You know, it is. We have. What is it? What did I say? 60 to 70,000 thoughts a day? Like, I mean.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Oh, yeah.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

So to be still, it's like, wait, then I got to listen to all of it. That's not even counting everybody else's thoughts. Right, right, right, right. So, yeah, for sure. But the stillness and even, I mean, meditation is the depth. Real definition of meditation is just a return to self. Right. So even in that stillness is you just stopping. It's in all of those thoughts, like, where's this voice? Where's my voice? Right. Or return back to self.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

So no, that's. That's powerful, though, the self permission that you can even sit with that and go give yourself the breaks. Because that's where I'm at. Micro habits, like, where are those microhabits we can build throughout the day because Most of us are busy. Most people don't have. I have an hour to say. I mean, right. Fortunate, you're great. You know, some days I have had that and a lot of days I'm like, I'm gonna need to catch these five minutes in the car when I pull up and you know, just really be able to sit and clear. So I think, yeah, giving yourself the permission is actually. That's amazing.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Every once in a while I will make an announcement at the house. I'm so glad Saturday's free because I have nothing to do, meaning I'm not going to do anything. This kind of just in terms of expectations, you know, you said that to.

[Podcast Co-host]

Your husband or say that to yourself?

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yeah, no, I say it to my husband because he knows and that means. So don't plan anything too. You know, like, I really just want to sit and decide my day as it goes along and it probably won't be filled with a lot. Yeah, a lot of movies, a lot of sitting, maybe somebody to catch up on, but letting people know what's going on. I also think one of the other things that I've, that I've done just in terms of, okay, dealing with this political atmosphere is, you know, this past weekend went down to Cape May, New Jersey with about 2, 10 girlfriends who were from high school.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

We go somewhere every year.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And so we had a very, very light discussion as to who do any one of us want to run for political office?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Right. Like if you need some oil.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yeah. It's like if you, if I'm really going to make an investment and think about a change, like you said, it's difficult every day to think, what can I do right now? I can't do anybody for the person, do anything for that person that, that was just picked up improperly by ICE right now, you know, sitting down at home. But can I think about someone who I might want to put my support behind? Is there somebody within my circles just encouraging people to do that, but trying to find a place to do something. But the self care portion, I do try to very, be very, very intentional and just get that space of my own.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah. And some of that, you know, is like looking at, okay, well, now that I've cared for myself, like, what do I have in terms of, you know, capacity, energy to be able to put out and be able to maybe encourage somebody else and like. But that's those ways where it's like, hey, yeah, maybe I can help you be in the forefront of getting that done. Or maybe you decide you want to do it yourself. Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That would not be me. They pull up all these recordings when.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

You said this, and then a lot of us out here be like, we're right there behind Candace. Yes.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

So, yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. Oh, my goodness.

[Podcast Co-host]

Would you run for something?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

You know what?

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I wouldn't mind sitting on a board of something local. And that has to do with the fact that. And we've talked about this before. I know you and I just. The fact that, you know, my parents migrating from the south and then planting seeds in a town that they saw help and grow and thrive that's now being gentrified. I do want to have a presence in that place that. That we all helped build, and that means my parents, other people that came from the south behind them. So, I mean, I wouldn't mind sitting on a board or something, like a zoning board or a council. I wouldn't mind that at all. But actually running for something that you have to raise money for and get votes for and just have your whole life on display. No, I wouldn't. I would not do that.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

I wouldn't do that.

[Podcast Co-host]

Becomes a different game.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

What about you?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

You get some votes?

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

You get some.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

I think the. Just the nature of politics. I think there's only. But so far that I would be able to go. Like, I think we talked about this when we had Keisha Lance Bottoms.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

I. I firmly believe that there are people who get into politics with the best of intentions, but because the game is the game. I'm like, politics is, you do this for me, I do this for you. I mean, that's the nature of it. And I think with. And I don't mean to say. I don't mean to say that there are not politicians who don't have integrity.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Right.

[Podcast Co-host]

But I think it's such a. I think for politicians who have integrity, the politics game is a place where your integrity can really take a beating and your soul can really take a beating. And I don't. I'm certain that my soul and my integrity cannot withstand.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Gotcha.

[Podcast Co-host]

That kind of being.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, yeah, gotcha.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I got you.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

No karma.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That leaves you.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

You know, PhD.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, exactly. You're the one in between the two of you. I'm like, I don't know about the whole life being on display. I'm asked that, you know, a lot. Like, would you. And I believe in a lot of the things, but kind of, I'm like, it's the nature of the game, and it Becomes the. I don't know. So I'm not gonna say absolute. No. But I'm gonna say not now or not right now.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

O.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Not right now for me, for sure. Not on my radar. I can. I can help from afar on the outside. I can counsel, I can guide. Right. Give some. You know, I could do that part of it. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

But, you know, a lot of things that you're talking about, you know, pouring out into other people, creating boundaries, and not that it's political, but it would have a good place inside of the world of politics, for sure.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

I think a lot of them could actually use a lot of that if they operated from a space there. I think a lot of those who came in with integrity could maintain that a little bit more when you're in the midst of that. But I think a lot of times you're running so hard because usually those people are of service. Like, that's why you're doing that. Right. And in being of service, it can be. It can get to be really tricky. But if you aren't really clear and centered and grounded on why you're doing what you're doing and where your boundaries are so that you don't cross them yourself. So I definitely can see a huge need there for, you know, that. And I'm here to help, but not. I don't know if I want to be in it. Right. But I'm here to help them create those. Those boundaries and get that guidance, though.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

So I know a psychologist is often when I see them, you know, on TV or hear people talk about going to a session, there's not a solution. They listen more. And in positive psychology, it feels like it's more solution oriented, like, do these particular steps.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Am I correct on that? So I operate in a little bit of, you know, positive psychology and the coaching space. So for me, sessions for. For most of my clients kind of look like the belief is rooted in. We all have all the answers for what we need inside of us. They may be a little bit more obscure. They need, you know, a little bit more excavation. So I kind of look at, you know, my role is helping to excavate that. But I do believe that you know what's best for you. You have the answer. I believe we all came into this existence with that higher knowing. Right. So I. It's a little bit more looking at, you know, asking the deeper questions, providing some of those tools, resources, practices so that you can have access to that. So it's the listening piece, for sure. I think the. The active listening because for me, a lot of times it's listening beyond the words so I can hear sometimes what people are saying, but then there are some deeper things that are going in. And then being able to ask those questions that maybe other people in their lives would not and which elicit a different response. Right. Because the deeper you go, you have access to more. So it's, it's a little bit of both. You know, it's the training in that and then knowing that, okay, you are talking about this, maybe you have that here are some tools and resources that may help with that so that you can actually get to where you want to go. Because ultimately I want to see people reach their goals. Like, that's where I'm going with this. Like, so solution focused in a sense, because I'm like, okay, let's. And starting from where we are now, you know, so there's no right or wrong. Like, we are. Everything we did, we got here because we had the tools that we had. So we're doing the best that we can do in this moment. All of us, even when our best doesn't look that good to others, we're all doing the best that we can with what we have. So how do we take you from here to where you absolutely want to go? And let's create that roadmap and let's get there.

[Podcast Co-host]

So in giving what you do, obviously there's gotta be a space for non judgment.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Podcast Co-host]

Are there? Uh. Oh, no. Are there? No, no, no.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Give him some tools.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Give him some time.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Okay.

[Podcast Co-host]

Are there ever times. Times where you find yourself having to be mindful of letting go of judgment?

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Absolutely. I mean, I don't think so. Everybody has biases. Right. I think the key piece to it is checking in on that. Like, I don't ever want that to impact my client. So if there is something for myself that judgment pops in, I'm. I'm pretty quick to go. Let me acknowledge that for myself and let me do a little bit of work. Like, where is that coming from? Right? Because at the end of the day, if my true belief, as I said, was everybody's doing the best that they can do with what they have, why you're not giving them that grace, you know, so then I, you know, I do the work to check in and say, like, okay, well, where is that coming from? You know, and some of that is old programming is belief systems. Like, we all have it. Oh, you know, across the board. So then I do the work to try to unpack that. But I don't know that we, Any of us are ever completely free from it. But I do think it's important to go. If judgment comes up, I always go, where's that coming from? Because that's you. That's a you thing.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yeah, no doubt. That's.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

You know, so I asked my. I asked myself that, you know, so I feel like I'm a. I don't have maybe as much judgment, maybe as others, but I've also seen a lot. I've experienced a lot, a lot. And I. You know, I see people from all walks of life, I bet a lot of different things just in my personal life and professional life. So I can see the light in a lot of people. You know, I grew up in subsidized housing. I mean, I've seen a lot of people do a lot of things. And though there may. It's the duality that. Though they may have been doing some things that were not considered right or maybe, you know, of light. Right. So to speak, I could see that there was. There was good and there was potential and there was light in them. And I've always been able to operate in that space. So it. From a child, it let me know that there's no all bad. Like, people make choices and decisions, and then. So then I get to check in and say, like, are you judging that? Because that's something that you wouldn't do? And then that's cool because that's not your life. Right? So. And I'm always clear there, like, what. Somebody else's path may not be yours. And that's not. Your role is to judge anybody. Like, check in with yourself and deal with you. So I'm quick to tell myself that.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

It's like, I imagine if someone came to you, you know, I'm in a polyamorous relationship, and I'm feeling lonely. That's. This a lot.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Like, whoa. You know what I mean? Like, that is, like, tell me a little bit about how that. What that looks like for you. Yeah, right. That's not. That's not. That's not my thing. But. But I am like, okay, my role here is not for this to be right for me. I get curious. That literally for me, when judgment comes up, I get really curious. And. And that's a strength for me because I'm a super. I was that kid that they were like, karma, stop asking so many questions. Like, so, I mean, I. I use it. I'm like, okay, tell me a little bit more about that. Like, I mean, loneliness, and you have, like, I'm I'm gonna ask more questions. Literally. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I guess the more informed we are, the less we are.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah. Then I can at least maybe try to understand your way of thinking. It won't be mine. I can be really clear and go, like, I probably won't do that. But I'm curiosity, like, tell me about the end. Let me help you create the best solution for you. Because ultimately, this is your life, your experience.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

You and the others.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

You and the others. Exactly. You and the others. This is your experience. So how do we make the best experience for you guys? Yes.

[Podcast Co-host]

My favorite quote from the writer, proclage is replace judgment with curiosity.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yes, absolutely.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That's right in there.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah. And that's. That's truly. I mean, literally, that's what I do. If I'm something, I'm like, let me ask more questions about that. Because usually it's coming from some pieces that you don't understand. And understanding doesn't mean that you have to then buy into it or feel like you're going to do it. It's just now I understand your perspective, your way of thinking, your walk of life, you know, because all of that led us to where we are, where we came from. I come from actually informs a lot of life. So if I understand a little bit more about your come from, I can understand a little bit about why maybe you're doing what you're doing. And that doesn't mean that it's right for me. Right. And both can be true. Like, we don't have to do the same thing. Like, we can be in relationship with others and not all be doing the same thing. What's right for you is right for you, and I can respect that. And what's right for me is what's right for me. And I think a lot of times when we get into, you know, religion, politics, like, all of the different things, lifestyles, the way people live, I think that's what we bump up against. Because if it's right for me, it needs to be right for you. And it's like, nope, it's right for you. What's right for you. Let's keep that over there. And I can visit over there and I can respect it, but, like, we can do our own thing.

[Podcast Co-host]

Hey, comrades, if you are enjoying the episode, join the conversation. Like, subscribe. Leave a comment below. Don't get yourself blocked. Keep it clean.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I bet you win all the arguments. I mean, I just imagine with your re. I can imagine with your reasoning, that's just very, very helpful. Helpful to make sure. That everything is come. Comes back to being centered at. In a happy space.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

So, yeah. No. What that would be ideal. Right. A lot of times people feel like, you know, because I'm a perspective. Like if you are having a difference, I'm like, well, let me try to figure out where Candace is coming from. Okay, let me see what. Ma'. Am. And what can happen in that A lot of times is if I. Then I'm also a person. Let's advocate. Right. I'm like, well, Malcolm, Candace feels like. And then it's going to be like, yeah, that's not what I'm trying to hear. Or you took Candace side or whatever. So I'm learning to go. I can take it in and I can understand and I can help the person and maybe not necessarily be the, hey, we gotta come to a solution. For me, I can allow people to be in the space that they're in. So sometimes people want to be frustrated and upset and that's where you want to live right now. Right? Right. They're not. Like, I didn't. I'm not looking for a solution. Like, that's. I'm. That's where I want to be right now. And not to bypass that because I think our emotions are our guidance system. Right. So things that anger us, frustrate us, scare us, like all of those things. I think they're here to inform us as well. Now, acting on it is something a little different because we don't need to make sure we show up appropriately. But I don't think in and of itself having those feelings. So sometimes people need to sit in it like they need it to be maybe frustrated or angry about something. And then we can circle back and have a conversation about like maybe what came up for them or like, what would that. What was that trigger? Or how are we bumping up against each other? And maybe some better ways in which we can show up differently. So it doesn't always happen. We're laying in that space in the moment. And I had to reconcile and come to peace with that. That like, everybody gets where they need to be when they need to be there. And I mean, there are times too where I'm like, nah, right now I'm having a moment and it's my moment to have and I'm gonna get. I'm gonna. But right now, this. My dad. That's my moment. I'm. And I'm having it. And that's. You know, and then I can circle back around too and go, you know what? I could do this A little bit better. But I usually try to say I'm having a moment, like a lip.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Let me be like, yeah, you're a journaler.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I'm scared of those journals after I leave this earth. I mean, I do not journal, and I would not want journals to be found from the seventh grade and how I was feeling by somebody else.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

But remember that, like, you know, you expressing those things that you can, then, you know, there's. There's sacred practices that you can do or you. You burn some of those things.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Right, True.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Like, there's a real, real strong practice that I have a lot of clients do, and I've done it myself. It's unsent letters. Like, a lot of times when you have like, unforgiveness or things that it would cause more damage to share some of those things that you're feeling with the person than it will be helpful. But yet it's still inside you. And so I encourage people. I'm like, you know, like, I mean, all of it, everything you thought you want to say, everything in the kitchen, say, throw it all in there. And then on the other side of that, you've gotten that out of you. There's a practice where you can actually honor your feelings and your emotions and you can burn and release that and let go of whatever that thing was. So it's, you know, it's a forgiveness practice as well. Yes, yeah, it absolutely is.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I will put my windows up in the car and I will have a conversation.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Right. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I'm sure my neighbors are like, she must be on the phone.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, yeah. But.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Oh, I'll have a full conversation just to get it out.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And work it out and leave. I mean, I'm not in there for 40 minutes.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, but.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

But you know, I get it out. Yeah, absolutely.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah. We gotta process and release. I think that's the biggest thing with emotions. Like, process them and release them. And I think a lot of times we get stuck and then they live in our nervous system and then they create some of those, you know. Yes. Mental health issues that we have, some of the physical issues that we have, because that mind body connection is real.

[Podcast Co-host]

Go back to being addicted to those.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Hormones and those chemicals that, you know, our body produces to say, this is where you're supposed to be. And, you know, if you're not actually intentional, mindful and catching it, like, you don't know any different. Like, you just know like this. You know, how many times you hear people like, this is how I am.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Doesn't mean you have to continue to be that way. Like, I mean, I hear you, but you don't have to stay there like this. It's a choice. So recognizing that, like, we get to choose our experience, you know, is. Is a powerful for me. It's empowering to be honest, to know, like, okay, when I, when I really realize that, like, I get to choose my experience, this life is not happening just to me. Like, I co. Create this experience and, and that to me, that's like, it's powerful. Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah. It's a trip because my, you know, my, My mother has always been, you know, my whole life I have been her, you know, her focus.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

And, you know, so she's, she always worries a lot. Yeah, she always has.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

That's just what she is.

[Podcast Co-host]

And now that I've got my own family, I'm like, ma, like, like, you know, take care of yourself. You don't have to worry about me. But she's like, but I'm. I'm a mother. You can't tell me not to worry.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Worry.

[Podcast Co-host]

And she's like, you know, you, you know, you'll understand it. You know, you'll. And. But before, before I became a parent, she's like, when you were a parent, you'll understand. And now that I'm, you know, now that I have. Now that I am a parent. Yeah, well, when you get older, you'll understand it.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

And I'm like, no, but like, that's not my experience because I see the stress that consistent state of worry does to the body. So I'm constantly trying to, like, I'm always sending her Joe Dispenza video, and I'm really trying to get her out of the space of being in a constant state of worry because I'm like, I don't want this for you. Like, I'm gonna be okay. I've got a partner. Like, I'm not just going through this by my right. Like, like, we are going to be good. My response, the man you've raised me to be.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, right.

[Podcast Co-host]

Like, I'm. I'm going to take care of my family. We are going to be good. Whatever your worst fear is, it will be handled.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yes.

[Podcast Co-host]

Release it. And it's hard for her to, to release it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

And I mean, part of her conditioning probably was, that's what you do, you know, survival. The generations before, like. Yeah, it's like, that's, that's what it is. Like, in order for us survive, I need to be hypervigil, vigilant to make sure. That things are good. Like, that's what she knows how to do. So. And that's sometimes hard for us, you know, to watch those that we love and understand. But the best thing you can do is by modeling it, though. So we think like, you know, it's our parents, our grandparents, like, that they are the teachers. But it goes both ways, you know, Teachers, the students, Students, teacher. So by modeling that, hey, like this is what it looks like to have this experience. It shows them as well. As much as you may think, like, like she's that focused on you. She's watching, she sees it. Yeah. So just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

Keep sending her dispenser videos.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Oh, maybe find something else that resonates on the notes. I'm that person, though. In, in the groups. I'm that person. I'm like, I'm gonna keep sending them. My kids don't have the time. Answer back, period. Like, they don't say anything. They like, she don't stop sending me that. But I, but I don't stop, though.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

You check to see if it's red, but I saw that Reddit, Right. Sometimes this Joe Dispenza owes us some money. Whoever he is, I will be listening to that. We have mentioned him. I, I, I really will, you know.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Not to make a commercial, but, but.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

But goodness, he must be good.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yeah, absolutely. For sure. Like, books are amazing. Just, yeah, the talks and, you know. Yeah. No, I think it will be well worth your time. All right.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And listen, well worth your time too. You write a book.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

It's not, it's coming. Yeah, I think it's coming, right? It is. I'm about to say. It's on the list. It's on the list. I'm like, let me get this dissertation written first and then, you know, and.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Put us in a happy space.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

[Podcast Co-host]

Hey, comrades, come join us on our Patreon page.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Ah. Where you can get behind the scenes footage, discounts on merchandise and exclusive content.

[Podcast Co-host]

We'll see you there. Not all hoods.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

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[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

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[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

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[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

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[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

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[Podcast Co-host]

When work gets crazy, I like to stop by the bar after have a few cold ones.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I don't drink at all until 4 o'.

[Karma Hill, Positive Psychologist and Executive Leadership Coach]

Clock.

[Podcast Host Malcolm Jamal Warner]

We limit ourselves to one bottle of wine and night.

[Podcast Co-host]

Excessive drinking has a way of sneaking up on us. A few drinks a few nights a week, it can add up and suddenly we're at greater risk for long term problems like heart disease, cancer and depression. Reason enough to rethink the drink more at rethinkthedrink. Com NOHA Initiative.