He Lost His Son, Then He Changed the System Alfred Brooks in a Transformative Talk with Pam Warner

Summary

Not All Hood (NAH) Podcast

Episode: He Lost His Son, Then He Changed the System
Hosts: Malcolm-Jamal Warner (not present this episode), Candace Kelley, Layne Fontes
Guest Co-Host: Pam Warner
Featured Guest: Alfred Shivy Brooks, activist, educator, and Atlanta Public School Board Member
Date: December 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

This deeply moving episode centers on love, loss, and transformation, featuring educator and activist Alfred Shivy Brooks in conversation with Pam Warner and others. The discussion explores Brooks’ journey through immense personal tragedy—losing his 16-year-old son, Bryce, to drowning in 2023—and how that loss led him to advocate for systemic change in education and community safety. The conversation ranges from Black identity and educational responsibility, to healing, personal growth, and the ways community and legacy are forged through both pain and purpose. This is as much a celebration of resilience and hope as it is a candid look at grief.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Alfred’s Background and Philosophy (01:27 – 05:26)

• Upbringing:

  • Raised by a “militant” Morehouse man and Black Panther; high expectations at home.
  • Early exposure to activism (first protest: Rodney King, 1991), and organizing during Black Lives Matter era.
  • Learned that “fighting all the time is exhausting… I made a conscious decision to just live and center in love” (01:27).

• Teaching Style:

  • Teaches high school seniors, emphasizes “unlearning” over learning.
  • “We have more to unlearn than we have to learn.” (02:57)
  • Challenges students to be open and question assumptions.

• Authenticity in the Classroom:

  • Viral video: Black male teacher representation (“less than 1.8% of all teachers,” but at his school, nearly 40%).
  • Shows up authentically: “I’m not always wearing a suit… sometimes I’m wearing a baseball cap, a hoodie…” (04:09).

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2. Black Male Representation & Systemic Barriers in Education (05:26 – 13:12)

• National Landscape:

  • Black male educators are rare and often isolated in their roles.
  • There’s informal support via social media, “Teacher Talk Live,” and personal platforms.
  • “If the majority of my colleagues looked like me across the profession, we would be much better compensated.” (07:47)

• Value of Education & Pay Disparities:

  • Observes that education is undercompensated and undervalued, partly due to being a “female dominated field.”
  • Discusses necessity for teachers to have side businesses to make ends meet (“If I was not an entrepreneur, I couldn’t afford to be a teacher.” – 10:39).

• Entrepreneurship as Survival:

  • Brooks runs a clothing line, curates conferences, and consults.
  • Pushes back on the idea of ‘side hustles’:

    “When we say side hustle and things like that, we kind of little ourselves, right?... We shrink ourselves.” (12:18)

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3. What Alfred Teaches & His Approach (13:12 – 17:37)

• Core Values for Students:

  1. Centering joy over temporary happiness — seeking achievements that “can never be taken from them.”
  2. Understanding purpose over passion — living to benefit others rather than focusing solely on self (13:25).

• Subjects Taught:

  • Ethnic studies, personal finance, economics, government.
  • First lessons always clarify these philosophies before diving into curriculum.
  • Financial education: “How can you talk to someone about managing money if you don’t talk to them about how to get money?” (15:10)

• Network as a Resource:

  • Sees providing access to his professional and social network as critical for students.
  • “The most valuable thing I could ever give them is access to my network.” (15:38)

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4. Family, Fatherhood, and Generational Teaching (17:37 – 24:16)

• Family of Educators:

  • Alfred’s father still teaches economics and personal finance; was once Alfred’s own teacher.
  • Recounts tough father-son relationship:

    “Not hearing that, not getting that affirmation from your father causes you to never feel satisfied by the things you achieve and causes you to work without rest.” (23:24)

• Multi-Generational Experience:

  • Recent meaningful memory with his father: joint interview and photoshoot for Ed Week magazine as generational Black educators.

• Healing and Father-Son Relationships:

  • “A lot of men go their entire life without ever hearing their father say, ‘I’m proud’… That’s one of the things I’m working to heal.” (23:24–23:37)

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5. Breaking New Ground: Teacher on the Atlanta School Board (24:16 – 28:08)

• Historic Leadership:
  • Alfred is the first teacher elected to the Atlanta Public School Board in its 150-year history.
  • Had to lobby state government to change the law, which previously required teachers to resign their jobs to serve.
  • “If you have systemic issues, then you have to have systemic solutions.” (27:41)

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6. Grief, Loss, and Finding Purpose (28:16 – 44:00)

• The Call That Changed Everything:

  • While preparing to announce his board candidacy, learned his 16-year-old son, Bryce, drowned attempting to rescue others from a riptide (29:41–31:30).
  • Bryce died a hero, saving other children.

• The Public Nature of Grief:

  • Bryce’s passing was highly public; Brooks experienced “the hurt behind people’s eyes.”
  • “I couldn’t wait to stop seeing the hurt behind people’s eyes.” (34:28)

• Navigating Grief:

  • For Brooks, the path was service:

    “I always found the most healing when I served others…Decentering myself and only thinking about how I could be a vessel of service helped.” (32:16)

  • For his wife, grief required privacy and closeness with her immediate village.

  • Emotional labor of being a “public griever” discussed candidly.

• Making Meaning from Tragedy:

  • Established a foundation and scholarships in Bryce’s name.
  • Got CDC funding to provide swimming lessons to Atlanta youth.
  • “My son lost his life in service to others and not to mention strangers… I had to make sure my son's legacy wasn't lost.” (41:38)

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7. The Nonlinear Process of Grieving and Acceptance (44:00 – 54:33)

• Difference in Grieving Styles:

  • Both Brooks and Pam Warner found solace in action and legacy-building.
  • Rejecting traditional therapy for a “village” approach:

    “If we had better friends, we’d need fewer therapists… I needed people beside me who were on that same energy.” (39:26)

• Gratitude and Moving Forward:

  • Focus shifted from “Why” to “What”—not getting lost in asking why the tragedy happened, but focusing on “What am I supposed to do now?” (76:46)
  • “Gratitude is an intentional directory… say, ‘Thank you God,’ on the day my son passed.” (75:31)

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8. Legacy, Parenting, and Continuing Bonds (54:33 – 67:56)

• Parenting after Loss:

  • Warner: parenting shifts from active to passive; legacy and values transmitted even after letting go of daily involvement (52:59–54:33).
  • Brooks: Focus on continuing his son’s legacy; “parenting” transforms into legacy-building.
  • “You’d be surprised how much in part gets imparted on these kids… I just knew you weren’t listening when I was talking, but you went out there and did all the right stuff.” (53:04–53:31)

• Significance of Financial Literacy & Representation:

  • Warner insisted son Malcolm-Jamal participate in financial meetings from the age of 14 for empowerment and protection (55:00–57:17).

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9. Spirituality, Signs, and Goodbye Conversations (57:17 – 71:57)

• Signs from Loved Ones:

  • Brooks: asks Bryce to appear as a hummingbird; finds symbolic comfort in those encounters (59:50).
  • No direct dreams, but many indirect signs.

• Last Words and Blessings:

  • Pam Warner: Most meaningful moment—son told her he always felt safe with her; also shared a “goodbye conversation” about knowing each other deeply (62:23–65:02).
  • Brooks: Last conversation with his son centered on faith (“I am a believer. I do believe in God.”—Bryce) and aspiring to “have a street named after you.” (68:34–71:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Fighting all the time is exhausting and it doesn’t necessarily bear fruit. So I made a conscious decision to just live and center and love… I found peace and impact.” — Alfred Brooks, (01:39)

• “We have more to unlearn than we have to learn.” — Alfred Brooks, (02:57)

• “Black men represent less than 1.8% of all teachers. At my school, almost 40%.” — Alfred Brooks, (04:09)

• “If the majority of my colleagues looked like me across the profession, we would be much better compensated.” — Alfred Brooks, (07:47)

• “My depression was always heaviest when I centered myself the most. I always found the most healing when I served others.” — Alfred Brooks, (32:16)

• “My son lost his life in service to others and not to mention strangers… I had to make sure my son's legacy wasn't lost.” — Alfred Brooks, (41:38)

• “We'd need fewer therapists if we had better friends.” — Alfred Brooks, (39:26)

• “Not hearing that, not getting that affirmation from your father causes you to never feel satisfied by the things you achieve and causes you to work without rest.” — Alfred Brooks, (23:24)

• “He felt safe with me as a child. That meant more to me than all the love and respect… The feeling of safety, that you’re protected from harm, that you’re in a safe place.” — Pam Warner, recalling conversation with her son, (63:06)

• “You’d be surprised how many things get imparted on these kids. You think they don’t listen, but they go out there and do all the right stuff.” — Alfred Brooks, (53:04)

• “The trap of ‘Why.’ …to believe that God owes us explanation… is audacity beyond what I will allow myself… Not all things are for our knowing.” — Alfred Brooks, (76:14)

• “I have a heavier heart than I ever did, but I have more peace than I ever have.” — Alfred Brooks, (79:29)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:27] – Alfred’s activist upbringing and educational approach
• [04:09] – Viral video and significance of Black male teachers
• [07:47] – On pay disparities and representation in education
• [13:25] – Teaching students to ‘unlearn’ and discern joy from temporary happiness
• [23:24] – Father-son relationships and healing without affirmation
• [24:38] – Becoming first teacher on Atlanta School Board, changing the law to serve
• [29:41] – The loss of Bryce Brooks and its immediate aftermath
• [32:16] – Decentering self in grief, focus on community service
• [39:26] – Friends vs. therapists in grief processing
• [41:38] – Founding a foundation and swimming lesson initiative post-loss
• [53:04] – Passive parenting and legacy after loss
• [63:06] – The importance of “safety” in parent-child relationship
• [68:34] – Goodbye conversations, faith, and legacy teachings
• [75:31] – “Gratitude is an intentional posture...”
• [76:14] – On not asking “Why” but focusing on “What”

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Ending Reflections & What’s Good (80:12 – End)

• “What’s good is living and being present, being intentional and being focused.” — Kim Fields (80:17)
• “What’s good is that the village is alive… seeing a room full of community and a village...” — Alfred Brooks (80:31)

Pam Warner closes the episode with gratitude for the connections made and the community present:

“What’s good is connecting… and connecting with all of these people.” (81:22)

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Tone & Feel

The conversation is raw, honest, and hopeful, carrying both humor and heartbreak. The room is filled with community support, vulnerability, laughter, and deep, generational wisdom rooted in Black lived experience.

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Summary for Listeners

This episode stands out for its depth and realness—whether discussing policy, pedagogy, or personal pain. It’s about the power of showing up authentically in one’s community, the challenge and beauty of Black identity and legacy, how tragedy can be transformed into a force for systemic change, and the necessity of gratitude, presence, and community in the hardest moments of life.

For anyone navigating loss, seeking inspiration in education, or invested in the health and legacy of Black communities, this conversation is a gift.

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Skip to the important segments above for focused listening, or tune into the entire episode for a full experience of storytelling, healing, and community in action.

Transcript

[Kim Fields]

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[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Liam brings three friends for dinner.

[Kim Fields]

No plan, no problem. Say hello to Plan B O B from Bob Evans. Because when you bring out the Bob, you can take comfort in knowing you'll always have something delicious on the table.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

No matter what the day brings.

[Kim Fields]

When you need comfort, bring out the Bob available now in your refrigerated section.

[Pam Warner]

Comrades, welcome to Not All Hood. Today's conversation is about love, loss and finding your way forward. I'm joined by guest co host Pam Warner and Alfred Shivy Brooks. He's an activist, educator and member of the Atlanta Public School Board. We covered a lot of ground from his stats style to his teaching philosophy. His son drowned in 2023. So we also talked about the messy non linear process of grieving and explored what it means to regroup when loss changes everything. It's very raw and honest, but it's a hopeful conversation about honoring those we've lost while learning to live again. Enjoy the conversation.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I've lived a lot of life. I grew up in a house with a very militant father. He's a Morehouse man, a member in Islam, a member of the Black Panther Party. Like high expectations.

[Kim Fields]

High expectations.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

That and I grew up on Morehouse campus as a kid. So I grew up a certain kind of way. And you know, I would say I remember my first protest like Rodney King, like what's that, 91. And I think, you know, about 2020 and Black Lives Matter movement and the organizing work that we did here in Atlanta around that. And so much of my time had just spent like fighting, fighting, fighting. And I'd learned eventually fighting all the time is exhausting and it doesn't necessarily bear fruit. And so I made a conscious decision to just live and center and love. And I think when I took that approach I found peace and impact. So I'll say send it there.

[Kim Fields]

Wow.

[Pam Warner]

When you are inside of the classroom, I teach too, but it's a different level. I'm you know, maybe 18 to 22 year olds. The age group that you teach in.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

General is why I have a high school senior. So my kids are close in age. So they are like 17, 18 also, they know everything.

[Pam Warner]

They think they know everything.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You know, I don't get that. Really, I don't. Honestly, they're vulnerable.

[Kim Fields]

They come to you vulnerable?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I think they come to me open. I think the first thing that I try to impart on my students is that we have more to unlearn than we have to learn. And I think it's incentering the need to unlearn that they don't come to me believing they have all the answers because I've proven to them so, so many times the things that they believe they know are incorrect.

[Pam Warner]

Being a black man who is a teacher, I mean, the numbers are so tiny across the country on any level, whether you're teaching kindergarten, third grade, or, you know, college level. So your school, though, as many people know, let's just get out in the open. Let's get that viral video out of the open. Okay. You know, I think that when I first came across it, I was like, wow, that is so empowering. Because that's how you teach other people that they can do something they see themselves.

[Kim Fields]

Amen. Right.

[Pam Warner]

And you showed so many people, just through one video, how important it is to have a black man inside of the classroom. For people who may not have seen it, can you explain the video I'm talking about?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah, there was a minute and a half video that I posted a few months ago. Me just walking in and through my school, greeting the other black men who work. At my school, black men represent less than 1.8% of all teachers. And at my school, we represent almost 40% of all of the teachers and a staff of about 150 teachers. And so when you see that concentration of black men in one school and you're talking about a traditional public school, not like a gendered school or anything like that, it's impactful to see. On top of that, what I think is very unique about my school is just that I serve at a place where our administration allows us to show up authentic and show up true and show up as we are. I'm not always wearing a suit. Sometimes I'm wearing a. A baseball cap, a hoodie, T shirt, cargo pants, or what have you. And I'm very comfortable that way, as are my colleagues. And so to see that high concentration of black male teachers is impactful because there's a lot of people who go their Entire K through 12 never having a black male teacher or maybe or.

[Kim Fields]

A black teacher, period, ever.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Right. Period.

[Kim Fields]

Or black teacher, period. And that age group, it is so very important that they have A role model because they're getting ready to go out into the world. Either they're going to a work situation or they're going away to college. And it is vital that these black children see a black man in power and in authority. It's also good for white kids to see it so that to diversify their outlook, to diversify their world, it's extremely important. And it sounds like you're in an absolutely ideal situation where you can show up the way you wish to show up and be fully authentic in who you are in relating to these children. The presence of black men in that sort of position, not just in education but across the board, there is a dearth of that. There's just a dearth. And to see this, It's wonderful. It's fantastic. And is there any sort of. Are you collaborating with other black male teachers across the country or is it. You're just in Atlanta?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

One of the benefits for me as a teacher has been that it's created platform for me. And so via social media, I've been able to honestly get in community with a lot of black male teachers from across the country. There's no formal coalition that we have, if you will. But if we were to start to name some of the black male educators who have platforms or influence, there aren't that many of us. And so we all really know each other. So there have been opportunities that we've had where we've done online forums and things to that effect. I have a show called Teacher Talk Live where I get a lot of us together often to have conversations and talk about contemporary issues in the education field, truth be told. And I often get asked the question of how do we get more black men in the classroom? What could we do? I think the reason that we don't have as many black men is the same issue that we just have in education in total, which is that we don't value education and we don't compensate teachers the wage that we should. And the reason that we don't compensate teachers the way that we should is because it is a female dominated field. If the majority of my colleagues looked like me across the profession, we would be much better compensated.

[Kim Fields]

That's always amazed me and caused me to wonder. Education and they don't respect it. They continuously take money away from educational budgets. And you would think that the concentration of the thought would be these people, these young people, these kids are going to be running our country, they're going to be taking care of us, they're going to be our Leaders, they're going to be creating businesses. It would seem to me that you would want to put a lot of money in this to grow people, to grow these people, to be productive citizens, to be productive and to take over where one regime is moving out. And you can put in educated young people, you can put in business minded people, you can put in people to take over. But it doesn't feel that way.

[Pam Warner]

It feels like, it feels like we're dealing more with, you know, censorship and what patterns they're using. Like we hear those. Exactly those headlines more than we hear other headlines in terms. As opposed to how much they're getting paid or bringing back men into the classroom. It's these books were removed because of this one page.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah, but I think everything that you named is the worst fear and not the goal. I mean, 80% of all of our money is owned by 2% of the people.

[Kim Fields]

That's right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And so when we look at like, what are we talking about here? There's very little capital to even create opportunity from what we're telling young people is out there for them. I think one of the greatest sins that we commit in education is that we train our young people to be good employees for other people. And we have encultured brain drain, especially in our community. We tell a black child to get good grades so that they can get a scholarship, to go to a good school, to get a good job, to buy a house in a good neighborhood. They tell white kids and then get upset about why Sally running down the street with a dog in a neighborhood that they never lived in before. And so we can't, we can't have both. And so, you know, again, it goes to the unlearning that we have to do as educators. I coach my young people to be entrepreneurs.

[Kim Fields]

That's right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And the facts are, if I was not an entrepreneur, I couldn't afford to be a teacher.

[Kim Fields]

Is those.

[Pam Warner]

Everybody needs a side business, right? Even, even the most, the richest people in the world, they don't do just one thing. Anyway. You should always, I always preach, you should always have something on the side.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Because that makes fair. But we still deserve to make a dignified wage from our one job.

[Pam Warner]

Yeah, this is true. But in 2025, it seems, not that it's unattainable, but it doesn't seem like that's the way that we are going. So for example, you just said you, you have side hustles that help right with your.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

No, I think what I'm saying is that being able to be Successful as an entrepreneur in the education space has made it so that teaching is a side hustle.

[Pam Warner]

I see what you're saying.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So it's made it to where I have the privilege to teach without the same financial strain as the majority of my colleagues.

[Pam Warner]

Because you consult. Right. And you sit on the board.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I sit on the board. I have a clothing line.

[Kim Fields]

You have a clothing line.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I host conferences, I curate conferences, I do social media strategy, et cetera. So it's, you know, I have to sleep less, I have to rest less, I have to work more in order to be able to have a dignified lifestyle, to be able to provide for my family, and then also to be able to show up in the classroom free.

[Pam Warner]

Hmm, that's interesting. So your side hustle is. You don't call it a side hustle, you're saying your main gig?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

No, I say, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a. I'm a business owner. I think like, you know, when we say side hustle and things like that, we kind of little ourselves, right?

[Kim Fields]

Yeah.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

We shrink ourselves.

[Kim Fields]

Diminish it. Diminish it. Yeah.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Right. When in actuality, I mean, I've had years where I've been one of the largest merchandisers in the education space. So it's, you know, I think, not that we need to be braggadocious about ourselves, but we also need to never diminish ourselves.

[Kim Fields]

Right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Because then, however do we demand our value?

[Kim Fields]

Right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Especially in our field. I mean, you know how like as a teacher, you think about how many innovative ideas and things that we have that we could take to another district and be paid handsomely as a consultant, but our own would just take from us and we would give it, but we wouldn't get our just due.

[Kim Fields]

Wow.

[Pam Warner]

What are you mainly trying to unlearn in terms of. I'm sorry, like with the students, what are you trying to reverse in terms of what you want them to unlearn?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Two very important things. One that is so much more important for them to center joy in their lives than happiness, meaning centering themselves on earning things in life that can never be taken from them, that will always be an achievement that is theirs. As opposed to fleeting opportunities to feed a moment that gives you something that you can't hold onto. And the other being that they have to be rooted in their purpose over their passion and that their purpose is how God has designed them to be of good and of value to others as opposed to their passion, which is selfish and self indulging and only for their own Benefit and that when children are able to have clarity between the two and discernment between the two, that all the decisions that they make in life will be rooted in something that I think will bear more impact and more success for them.

[Kim Fields]

You teach?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I teach ethnic studies, personal finance and government.

[Pam Warner]

So what's it like being in your class? You know those two points that you just explained? How do you get that, you know, through the. Those finance.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

That's the first conversation that we're having. Because if the student doesn't even understand my ethos, then none of it even matters. Because I'm teaching you economics and I'm teaching you about money, but I'm also going to teach you that money isn't real. I'm going to teach you about a fractional banking system and how banks are able to create money and how the illusion that we have of the scarcity of money is one that we shouldn't have and it's why it makes it hard.

[Kim Fields]

So this is about financial education, financial literacy?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yes, ma'.

[Kim Fields]

Am. Which is what we are not exposed to. Correct. As a whole. And not exposed to.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Well, and two, how can you talk to someone about managing money if you don't talk to them about how to get money? And so that's why I bring it back to the, you know, why it's important to talk about entrepreneurialism and then even to be able to bring a Kim Jones New York Times selling, you know, best selling author or, you know, a myriad of friends that I have who I get access to and bring. I always tell my students that the most valuable thing that I could ever give them is access to my network.

[Pam Warner]

Mm, you got that right. It is the people who, you know, you know, people talk a lot about Morehouse. I'm curious, has that network kind of really proved what you thought it would and what I've heard about the Morehouse Network?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah. So I grew up on the campus. I did not attend Morehouse before I have any brothers that he didn't even go to the house. But a proud graduate of Georgia State University and Andrew Young School of Public Policy. You know, network is everything and your relationship with others is everything. I'm a member of the Hundred black men of Atlanta and I think about how many areas of professional black men that allows me to then give access to my young people. I have a student of mine right now who's this kid is a senior high school interested in fintech and coding his own fintech apps. And I have a friend who happens to be in fintech and in the edtech space, who I'm able to just connect them with. And out of K has an internship and potentially a scholarship to go to college next year. That's. You know, those are the. Those are the things that matter. Your. Your original question was like, what is it like to be in my class? And for me, education is a ministry, and that's how I travel.

[Kim Fields]

It feels like that. And are these three separate classes or are they just in one class?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So this semester I have ethnic studies. Next semester I will have. I don't think I have government. I believe I only have economics and personal finance.

[Kim Fields]

So they're taught each different. Different semesters they're taught. They're not. You don't. You just have that one class. You don't have. You can't. You don't. Aren't teaching them.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Sometimes you have multiple. At one time. You know, in the teacher world, we'll call that multiple preps. I prefer not to have that. What I do appreciate about my school is they've given me, like, the soft teacher life, so it allows me to stay focused, which is nice.

[Kim Fields]

What drew you to education?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I come from a family of educators. My dad is also a teacher. Still teaches to this day. Also teaches economics and personal finance.

[Pam Warner]

Is he in Montclair, New Jersey?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

He was in Montclair, New Jersey.

[Pam Warner]

Okay.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And he now is in DeKalb County.

[Kim Fields]

Wow.

[Pam Warner]

Yeah. So he came on down.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah, he's down here.

[Pam Warner]

Yeah. What was that like? I mean, listen, my father was an educated. My father, my mother, all my aunts, all the people. I mean, everybody who's at my Thanksgiving table, everybody, all in education. But I want you to answer this question. Did you feel. Did they try to teach you away from teaching, or did they say, you know what?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Come on in, come on in. You know what's funny? I remember being in high school, my dad happened to be my teacher for, like, a class.

[Pam Warner]

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Kim Fields]

Tell me about that.

[Pam Warner]

You stayed in the whole semester?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Oh, yeah, look, I made it with your dad, I made it. That wasn't the hard part. The hard part was what was the class?

[Kim Fields]

What was the class?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

What did my dad teach me? I don't even remember what it was. I felt like it was like social studies class or something, maybe.

[Kim Fields]

How fantastic is that?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah, look, that was a cool experience, but I remember one day after school asking my father how much he made a year. And I remember him telling me, and I remember going, I ain't never done that. You made what? Yeah, I Ain't never doing that. And I remember that vividly and to the point that I was a non traditional teacher. So I didn't go to school to be a teacher and everything. It took me nine years to get my four year degree. You know, like I went to college fresh out of high school, had an opportunity to do Freestyle Friday on BET's 106 and park thought I was gonna be a rapper. I read that, thought I just, you know, I made it in the hall of fame one. Like I went on one time and got out of there. So I thought, I thought, yeah, I thought I was gonna be on somebody's stage, be a young millionaire, and that was gonna be life. I left for Atlanta, dropped out of school and life did not turn out how I thought it was going to be. Had some real come to Jesus life events and then I ended up re enrolling in the school. I thought I'd be a lobbyist. That's what I thought I would be.

[Kim Fields]

You had political aspirations?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah, I just, I knew I would work in politics of some form. I won the lobby for causes that I believed in.

[Kim Fields]

And, and at this point in time. How old are you at this particular time?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I moved to Atlanta in like 2004. I think I was like 20 or something. Oh, you were? Yeah, I like 200 in my pocket and a mattress that sat on the floor and a TV with the hump on the back. Like that's all I had.

[Pam Warner]

You said a lot of listeners say I know that life.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah. I live my first two years in Atlanta. I survived off of selling my CDs outside of the clubs on Far Road.

[Kim Fields]

That's right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So two years, that's how I, I survived. And so I thought that was going to be life. And I, I end up going back to school and at the time, once I graduated, this is like 2011. We' coming off the recession and there were no jobs, but you can get a job teaching. And they were hiring for teachers, a critical need for special ed teachers. And I end up starting to teach special education. And that was my first step in. Now what was interesting for me is I remember, I remember the first time driving through the parking lot at the school and seeing so many rundown cars. And I, and I remember my dad.

[Pam Warner]

Saying how much he made this map is map.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Like, ooh, I'm here, I'm here. And you know, and that was very interesting. But you know, as God would have it, you know, you'd be surprised what he has designed for you that you don't Even think to ask for. And so God has been very good to me.

[Pam Warner]

Yeah, yeah. Those come to Jesus moments, did they involve your dad? Look, military dad.

[Kim Fields]

I'm curious.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You know what's interesting? Me and my father and I unfortunately have had like a tough back and forth relationship. Truly. And I don't think I've ever really. I've never talked about it publicly, but, you know, we've had some strains in our relationship. I wish in my heart of hearts that we were closer and that we healed some of the things that we have between us. But one of my fondest, most recent memories is Ed Week magazine reached out to me about doing a story on me and wanted to talk about black male educators who were generational educators, multi generational educators like yourself, all my aunts, my dad. It's really a family business. So I asked my father if he would join in on the interview. And he did. And so I got to share that interview, have a whole photo shoot in my classroom with my dad.

[Pam Warner]

And you know, black and white pictures. Yeah, those were lovely.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I read you've been doing your homework.

[Kim Fields]

I have.

[Pam Warner]

Be a good student, sir.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Okay.

[Pam Warner]

Yeah, I saw that.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah. So that, that's a fond memory of mine. But I think, man, I wish I could have more of that. Father, son to black male educator, energy to share with the world.

[Kim Fields]

Well, this is, Is this something you can work on that?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Well, I think. I think even speaking in this moment, God has already kind of started to unfold how this all work out.

[Kim Fields]

He must be awfully proud of you. He has to be proud of you.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I pray so. You know, I will say this. I think a lot of. A lot of men go their entire life without ever hearing their father say, I'm proud.

[Kim Fields]

I'm proud of you. I love you.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And for a lot of us. And it's one of the things that I had to learn to heal. Not hearing that, not getting that affirmation from your father causes you to never feel satisfied by the things you achieve and causes you to work without rest.

[Kim Fields]

That's right. That's right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And so that's one of the things that I'm working to heal.

[Pam Warner]

Wow.

[Kim Fields]

Well, you seem to be a man of intention. And it feels to me that if you set your mind to this healing process with your father and you have the tools, you have tools and you know where to get more tools, it'll happen.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Amen.

[Kim Fields]

It'll happen.

[Pam Warner]

And the beautiful. He's here.

[Kim Fields]

He's here. Yeah, yeah, he's still here.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah. You know, I Don't pretend to be in control. I don't pretend to be in control, but I, I do. I'm intentional about being oka.

[Kim Fields]

Right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So I do, I do appreciate what you're saying.

[Kim Fields]

It'll happen.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Amen.

[Kim Fields]

It'll happen.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Amen.

[Kim Fields]

Mm.

[Pam Warner]

So how has a teacher. Correct me if I'm wrong. Never been on the board of education where you're on in 150 years. Is that right?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah.

[Pam Warner]

How is it possible that in the board of education a teacher is not on there? Because you have all the answers.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

We would assume. Yeah, we would assume.

[Pam Warner]

So you're the first.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So yes, to your point. I serve on the Atlanta public School board. I was elected in 2023, started my first term in 2024, so I'm halfway through my first four year term in 150 years. Now, a teacher has never served on a school board in the city of Atlanta. And that's so odd.

[Kim Fields]

The heck can a teacher not be on the school board?

[Pam Warner]

What are they talking about without teachers?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I would ask you this, okay. In the locality that you live, and it's not to put you on the spot, but that's okay.

[Pam Warner]

It's a two way street.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Can you name two school board members where you live?

[Pam Warner]

Okay. Where I live right now?

[Kim Fields]

No.

[Pam Warner]

No.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Right. So if we can't even name these people, why is it shocking to us that these people aren't in alignment with what they're there for?

[Pam Warner]

That's the last question you gonna ask me.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Just saying like we didn't pay much attention.

[Kim Fields]

Right?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

It's your school board. And I think this is the, this is the interesting part. A lot of people can name the mayor of Atlanta. You probably can name a couple city council members you might even be able to name like some county commissioners. But your school board has a budget that's more than 2x the size of the city. It's more than 2x the size of the county. They control 51% of your property tax.

[Pam Warner]

That's just right now. That's true.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And you can't name who the person is that is accountable to you that governs that much money. And in Atlanta, you're talking about a $1.8 $1.87 billion budget.

[Kim Fields]

Wow. You.

[Pam Warner]

You got the seat the first time you ran.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yes. So I ran in 2021 for city council in Atlanta. Got respectively spent but shout out to. To the OG Michael Julian Bond Jr. Michael Julian Bond.

[Kim Fields]

But he.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Who now has been a mentor and a good friend. But I ran again. And the only reason I Ran at that time was I was bearish about a boat that he had made. But. And I just need to make a point because I'm that person. But it was still illegal at that time for me to even run for school board. It said that if I run for school board and I'd won and I probably would have at that time, I would have had to resign my job. And mind you, school board only pays like $22,000, so there was no trade off there. So it wasn't going to be an either or for me. So I had to advocate at the state House for two years to get the law changed to change the charter for the Atlanta Public School board.

[Kim Fields]

Well, the charter had to move ahead.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So we had to get the charter changed. And so once we got the charter changed and that then allowed me to be able to run.

[Pam Warner]

Okay, that is some real intention and time and planning. That's amazing. Sometimes you have to change the law.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah. I mean, if you have systemic issues, then you have to have systemic solutions. So, I mean, we can't just scream and be mad at things and be defeated by things. We have to do something about it. My favorite saying is, you know what? You don't change your shoes.

[Kim Fields]

That's right. Yeah. But you don't change your shoes.

[Pam Warner]

And that is very political. I remember when my father was on the school board. It is. It is political.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I see you're loaded with all kinds of experience.

[Pam Warner]

Yes, I am. So how. How was running.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Oof.

[Pam Warner]

And getting that seat.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Man.

[Pam Warner]

Tell us some things. Tell us some things.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

It was probably the most challenging time of my life. I think the moment I'm sitting at a table just like ours in my dining room, I'm sitting around with a group of my friends. I keep bringing up Kim Jones name because she's here in the room, but she happened to be here at the table.

[Pam Warner]

Yes, yes. We have an awkward pause. We have a big. Why don't y' all clap? How big are y'?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

All? But you know, my sister Kim was, she was at the table as well as some of my other very close friends and got a phone call as we're trying to decide what date we would announce that I was going to run. And we get a phone call from a family friend. My 16 year old son had left to go on a family vacation with another group of families that, you know that we've been around each other for over 10 years. And the phone call says that they could not find my son in the water there at the beach. And it had been like 20 minutes at that point.

[Kim Fields]

And.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So then we ended up finding out that unfortunately we had lost my 16 year old son. His name is Bryce Brooks. And we had also lost our close friend Charles Johnson, we call him Chuck, who tried to go in and rescue Bryce. The unfortunate thing is that Bryce had gone out into the water to try to pull back three kids who they had seen being pulled out further to the beach. What they didn't know was that the kids were being pulled adrift by a riptide. And so Bryce was able to get help to the kids in time, but unfortunately they weren't able to get help to him in time. And unfortunately Bryce succumbed and so did Chuck as well. So on the hills of losing my son, having to go through his funeral, all of the things I had, you know, all these years of work that we did to try to get to the point to decide if I was going to run or not, it was kind of in the air. Honestly, a lot of me was not wanting to do it. We didn't know the law got changed yet. I think two weeks after Bryce passed, we got notified that the law was getting changed and that the governor was gonna sign the charter change. Mind you, we live in Georgia. So for those that don't know, like less than I think 4% of Democratically sponsored bills ever get passed in the Georgia state legislature. And that bill did get passed. And so I felt the responsibility.

[Kim Fields]

To run.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And so we did. On top of that, I ran against an incumbent. And so for those that don't know an incumbent, someone who's already in office, 88% of the time, they win 88% of the time. We ended up winning the election 65% to 35% in a citywide at large election. In a lot of ways, I felt like it was divine or sounds like not even supposed to be in the position I'm in, and yet I am.

[Pam Warner]

How did you find what it took to rise every day during that time?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

De centering, decentering? I think, you know, I'm transparently like I talk. I used to work in the mental health field before I was a teacher. And what I did was coach people who have lived experience with mental illness on how to tell their stories and then get. Create opportunities for me to share their stories in nursing schools and hospitals and places. So I talk transparently about mental health. And for me, mental health, I've lived with depression, I've lived with anxiety, I've taken medication for it, et cetera. And I find what I learned over the years is that my depression was always the heaviest when I centered myself the most. And I always found the most healing when I served others. And I think for me, de centering myself and only thinking about how I could be a vessel of service or being hyper focused on that help me. That may not be the thing for everybody. Like, my wife experienced grief differently than I did. She's probably the opposite of me. Like, you know, for her, she needs her time to herself by herself and maybe with her close village. But me, I needed to de center. You know, earlier I saw you talking with some folks and. And it made me reflect because I remember, because Bryce's passing was very, very public. It was all over the blogs. It was. You know, my wife and I were on the Jennifer Hudson show. Like, you know, it was all over the place. And so there was nowhere for over a year that I can go that people wouldn't look at me with pity behind their eyes. And it was that hurt, that pity, that, that kind of, you know, you can call it empathy, but you read it as pity.

[Kim Fields]

As pity.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah. And for me, it was just. I don't even. I don't want to center the word pity. I just want to say I. I saw. I would see the hurt behind people's eyes often, and I just couldn't wait to stop seeing the hurt behind people's eyes.

[Kim Fields]

Yeah. Yes.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And so today I'm watching, you know, the hurt behind people's eyes as they talk to you. And like, I empathize with that because if you're a person rooted in service, you then feel like you have to. You understand.

[Kim Fields]

So them. Right. So them you say, oh, yeah, right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And so, you know, I watch that and I'm like, man, that's emotional labor you didn't ask for.

[Pam Warner]

We talked about this earlier.

[Kim Fields]

We talked about it earlier, people. And that's something that I'm learning because I've never gone through anything like this. And it's out of love. It's out of love. But people bring you their grief and they want to lay that at your feet. And it's out of love.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yes.

[Kim Fields]

But it's. You're in the midst of your grieving, and so it's a little hard to really console them and make them feel better. But one of some of the feedback that I have received that by doing the shows that I've done, the Tamron hall show and. And Robin Roberts, that it really helped a lot of people. Those shows really helped a lot of people. It helped them with their grief because they saw that I was okay. And that I. In my attitude and the fact that I was going forward and how I expressed my grief and it wasn't traditional, it wasn't how people normally would and it helped other people and I'm very grateful for that. That I was able to give that it was authentic and it's the way people, like you said, people grieve differently. And my grieving was probably non traditional, but it was mine, it was my journey, the way I did it. But I'm so glad that it did help other people. And probably your words will help people as well, I think when they see that you're okay. And also it gives them another way of looking at, at this thing, looking at dying and losing a child. When a child goes before you, it's very different. It's very different because it's supposed to be. Is that your children outlive you or when they pass before you do, it's very different.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

It's unnatural.

[Kim Fields]

It appears to be that. It appears to be unnatural. But it's the way things happen.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Amen.

[Kim Fields]

You know, it's the way they happen. So in that it is natural, it is the way it was the way we're. It wasn't traditional. No, but it was still within that it's still natural. And that way that's our lot, you know, that we survived our children, our children didn't survive us.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah, I agree with you totally. And I think we talked about this, you know, before. I think I've learned so much, so much from experiencing living beyond my child. What's more, I've had to do it twice because I'd also lost a daughter to premature birth. And so that in itself, you know, I thought that was a learning and loss and grief and then going through it with the 16 year old child who's their own person with their own community, everything. And I, and I know the most.

[Kim Fields]

What you poured in, you poured in that's, you know, that emotional and psychological and love investment.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yes. Who is their own person, who has their own, their own world. And, and, and even in your case, you're talking about, you know, someone, a child who has built so much legacy.

[Kim Fields]

Exactly.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Made so much impact.

[Kim Fields]

Exactly.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

It, it's all very different.

[Kim Fields]

It's different.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

It's all very different. And that's why, you know, for any parent that has the misfortune of being in this grieving parent club, you know, there are no right words for anybody. There are no perfect things to say or perfect things to do.

[Kim Fields]

Right, right. This just has to be Organic. It has to be how you go forward. How you go forward with your feelings. Yeah. Have you taken any grief classes or Greek counseling? Did you get individual grief therapy or anything like that?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

For me, that did not. And this, speaking as a person who did counseling for eight years, I'm not anti counseling, but for me, it was just not what I needed.

[Kim Fields]

Right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

The way I feel. That's how I felt.

[Kim Fields]

I.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Somebody's going, this probably going to be a clip. But if we would need less therapists, if we just had better friends, too often, you know, I would go to counseling and I would honestly kind of feel like, what am I paying for? And some folks would say, oh, maybe you didn't have the right person. I've been to a lot of counselors and sat down with a lot of folks, and what I found is a common thread between a good counseling session and a good framework is someone that you can lay down your truth at the feet of, who can give you honest feedback that's not clouded by their own bias or their own fears. And so a bad friend and bad therapist can be fought to the same thing. What worked for me is having a village of people who understood how I grieved. I'm tactical when I grieve. Right. For me, it was all right, we're going to put together a foundation in Bryce's name. Exactly. It was. We're going to put together a scholarship, and after that, we're going to pull together some money. We're going to create opportunities for kids to get swimming lessons to make sure that less kids are impacted by this. I had been a lifeguard for, like, 15 years. So to. To go through all of this, having lifeguard at that is just one of those.

[Kim Fields]

Right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You know, and so, you know, God makes no mistakes.

[Kim Fields]

Right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Puts you through the walks that he does to prepare you for things you can't imagine.

[Kim Fields]

That's right. That's right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Which is right now doing the advocacy work that I do now, I didn't imagine that the authority of being able to say I was a lifeguard would mean something at this point, but it. But it does. And so, you know, now I was able to get funding from the CDC to provide 800 kids swimming lessons for eight weeks in Atlanta. So it's. It's. I needed people beside me who were on that same energy. I didn't have time to ball up and fold and.

[Kim Fields]

Right, exactly. Exactly.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I had to put feet to ground.

[Kim Fields]

That's right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And for me, I had to make sure my son's legacy wasn't lost because the reality is my son lost his life in service to others. My son lost his life to save others and not to mention strangers. And unbeknownst to us, the kids that he saved happened to be aps kids where I serve. And transparently I'm aware that there are kids in the district, but I've never tried to seek to find out who they are.

[Kim Fields]

Right. Yeah.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And don't desire to.

[Kim Fields]

Right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Don't desire to.

[Kim Fields]

Because this act was enough for you.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Amen. God knows the expectations of impact that I have for those kids and I don't need to know who they are.

[Pam Warner]

Wow.

[Kim Fields]

I feel the same way. I think my knee jerk reaction was to move forward and get the business taken care of. Get the business taken care of. And like you, I also, I want to build a foundation, you know, I want to build a foundation and I want to, you know, provide opportunities for other young artists, you know, so that was, that was. I kind of followed that as well. I just, I didn't. And with grief counseling, I don't know if I was asking. I just, I don't feel the need to go either, you know, because of, because of my level of acceptance. I'm. I think I'm missing more than grieving because I'm at peace.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yes.

[Kim Fields]

And I've accepted it. And like I was telling you, anything less than that is not productive for me because there's nothing I can do about it. I mean, I can roll up in a ball and sit in a corner, but what is that going to do for Intford? What's that gonna do for me? Nothing but waste some time, you know, and I can cry and be on the phone and talk and create the foundation. I can do that. You know, I don't, I don't need to be in a corner somewhere doing it, you know, but everyone breathes differently and everyone has. Their actions are different.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Do you remember making a decision.

[Kim Fields]

To.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Approach it that way or is this just.

[Kim Fields]

I think it's just maybe part of my personality is about get the job done, get it done. I know it wasn't. I don't believe it was conscious. I didn't sit and think, well, this is the way I'm going to go. I'm not going to do this or I'm going to do this particular thing. It was just for me. Okay, there's business here to take care of. Let me take care of the business. And in doing that and because I'm not coming from a, a place of extreme loss and I'm Coming from a place of acceptance. So I've accepted that and I'm at peace with that, that now it's time to take care of the business and move forward and to also create a foundation to keep his. Keep his legacy alive, to keep his name alive, to keep him alive and in service to other people and in service to other young people. So that was. And that's where I am now. I'm still in that particular space. I don't feel the need to crawl up in a ball, you know, maybe because I'm sleepy and tired, but not because as a result of what had happened. I think about him every day. I will never be the same person. And of course, he will never be forgotten. He's all around and his spirit is still here. You know, he's still here. He hasn't, he hasn't left us yet. But for me, it's the work. The work that it provided an opportunity for me to do another kind of work.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yes.

[Kim Fields]

And that's kind of the place that I'm in and just to stay forward. And I said earlier, when things like this happen, there's a reason we don't know the reason. There's a reason things just don't happen. And so for me, my journey is to find out what the reason is. What's the reason? What's the reason? For me, there's a message and a lesson here for me somewhere.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I'm in a moment of disbelief because as you're saying that wrapping my mind around all this because I remember hearing the news about your son and it was interesting how many people reached out to me for check ins once the news of your son came. Matter of fact, the mayor of Atlanta reached out to me and was like, brother, I'm just checking in on you because the stories of what happened were so similar. And I remember Kim saying, man, I was just talking to Malcolm a few weeks ago. I was trying to get you to get on his show and that we would be here today. And now I'm here sharing space with you. It's just.

[Kim Fields]

And there's a reason.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Amen.

[Kim Fields]

It's just not happening.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I can't call it, but it's just.

[Kim Fields]

I can't. There's a reason. There's a reason, if no more than just to be in each other's presence and for you to speak your truth to the people that are here. Me offer not so much condolences, but strength and support and admiration for what you do and what you're doing.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah, I offer the same to You, I. I'm grateful to be able to witness your grace and your grief. Thank you. You know, often people will say, you know, how do you. Where do you find the strength? And I don't know that strength is the right word. I'd have to leave it either to faith and understanding that it is not in our control, that our babies are not ours to have but to cherish.

[Kim Fields]

That's right, that's right. That's right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

But I'd also have to say that it's in focusing on being just present.

[Kim Fields]

Being present, being present.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Because I think the, the only thing that I could focus on, and I mean in, in the genesis of my grief, which is breathing. Like, honestly, like breathing is like the. Is just a baseline of just. I need to breathe. I just need to be present. Absolutely right now. That's the hardest thing to do.

[Kim Fields]

To be present.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah.

[Kim Fields]

The first stone color I made. That may sound weird, but the very first phone call I made was to the business manager. Get the paperwork ready. He's passed. I need, I need all the paperwork together. That's all I could think about. Get this. Get the business taken care of. And that was my first and surprising because he doesn't answer his phone. What he tell you? Text me. He picked up his phone and I said, get the paperwork ready.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah.

[Kim Fields]

And. And I don't know. And I, you know, people have been kind and loving and saying how strong I am, but I don't know if it's strength or just focus. Faith, I guess. Faith, you know, faith in an understanding of where I am and what has happened and once again, acceptance, you know. But I appreciate the compliment. And if it looks that way. If it looks that way, then.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Right.

[Kim Fields]

Maybe someone can partake of that for themselves if they ever find themselves in any situation where they have to grieve. But it's not that I'm not feeling strong. I don't feel like, you know, I don't feel like I'm caring or I'm being this superwoman. I don't feel that at all. I just feel like I'm moving forward as best I can through this process. Cause it's a process.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Has your idea of parenting shifted?

[Kim Fields]

I don't think I understand the question.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So for me, having a 16 year old son, I'm thinking about all the things that he would be. Yes, that he could be.

[Kim Fields]

My son was 54.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

That he should do right. And so now in his passing, for me, parenting looks less about investing in the future of my child and more like investing in the legacy of my child.

[Kim Fields]

Well, my parenting was over. I was no longer parenting. So when you cut your parenting off.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I thought it goes on forever.

[Kim Fields]

Oh, he wasn't gonna allow me to parent him back down. Nah, it got to Ma, Ma, come on now. You know, Ma, Ma, I got this, you know, don't worry. You know, I can handle this. You know, and at some point in time, you really do have to back off.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

That's right.

[Kim Fields]

You have to back off. Because he was. He was a grown man, middle aged man. What am I, how am I going to be. I'm gonna pair him, you know, all I can, all I could do after a certain point is just be the best business partner with him as I could be and best friend. So the parenting part was over. I will always be his mother.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You know, you feel like you own the responsibility of, like the legacy work now.

[Kim Fields]

I do, I do. I do feel it is my responsibility to keep that. To keep his legacy alive and to keep it. To keep it moving, you know, to keep it out there, to keep it in front. Absolutely, I do. I am also building a foundation, but I'm taking my time to build it, you know, I'm taking my time to build my board members, you know, and I want to. I'm reaching out to people who have worked with him during his career, all of his life, because these are people who are already emotionally invested. I'm taking my time to really learn what it means to build a foundation. I'm learning a lot, you know. Well, you know, and I'm just, I'm taking my time.

[Pam Warner]

You know, it's interesting what you said, because we've set. So we have an audience today that, that clapped if you listen to this. All right. And so, you know, some of the producers are in the audience and we would sit at this table often with Malcolm, and your name would come up. So I know what you mean in the sense of you weren't parenting, like, you know, directing his life. Yes, but parenting happens even if you're not there, if that makes sense. So that when you think about somebody's value system and what makes them who they are and that safe place that you were talking about that in the back of one's head is every day something that I know kept him grounded. And I'll speak for myself, having that for myself keeps me grounded, knowing that that's there. Those parents are always in your ear. I know. Your dad is always in your ear. You know what I mean? So that parenting is always happening, even if it's not adjective.

[Kim Fields]

Not if it's not active yet. The passive parents. There we go.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Even with having a younger child, like, listen, for all the teen parents out there who might think in the back of their mind somewhere, like, maybe I'm failing or not doing a good enough job, you'd be surprised how much in part gets imparted on these kids. Like, I would hear stories about my son afterwards, and I'm like, I just knew you weren't listening when I was talking. Right, right. But you went out there and did all the right stuff, and you were saying the right stuff, and you were giving good guidance and counsel to other people and being a good human to other people.

[Kim Fields]

I experienced the same thing I experienced even younger. Before he passed, I would hear him talking to people, or we'd be in conversations about what he said to someone. And I was like, he got it. He heard me. He got it. You know, and even now, the things and the people that he touched, unbelievable. I mean, this is all over the world. It is. Getting back to having black men, it was extremely important. That character of Theo, so many black men grew up because they didn't see themselves on television. And the genius of Bill Cosby of how he crafted that character, I really see the impact of it now because I'm hearing it from other black men. That. And young black girls had someone that they could drool over, that they had, you know, they could have. Young black girls could have a heartthrob, you know, that could have a black heartthrob.

[Pam Warner]

No, no, that was you.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Me too.

[Pam Warner]

Yes. She was cute.

[Kim Fields]

And young black men had, you know, young black boys had someone that they could. They could look up to, someone that looked like them, you know, And I'm.

[Pam Warner]

Going to connect some dots here because you have told me that you would make Malcolm every year, twice a year, go and sit and have the financial discussion.

[Kim Fields]

Oh, yeah.

[Pam Warner]

And this is because you teach finance.

[Kim Fields]

Okay. Yes. When we first started out, it was more to protect myself than anything else. And I'll tell you why. When we started out, there were several high profile child actors whose parents had absconded with their money or their fortunes were squandered and so on and so forth. So I'm like, you are not gonna say, my mama took my money. That is what you're not gonna say.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Let me tell you, these receipts.

[Kim Fields]

You're not. Y' all not for show you receipts. You're going to be in the financial meeting with me.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Okay?

[Kim Fields]

So he was about 14 years old. And I. I hired a Business management company. And twice a year, June and December, okay. And we had to sit in these meetings. He could have torn his eyelashes out. They were so boring. A 14 year old kid. It doesn't, it's not, it's not. And I didn't care.

[Pam Warner]

Right?

[Kim Fields]

I did not care. I don't care if you absorb it or not. You cannot say you were not there. You could not say you did not know because you were right there. This went on until 30 years or more, until those people retired and I had to get with another firm and he was in Georgia and I was in California. And so now zoom, we would do it by zoom, but going through all of the, Going through all the finances, going through the books. And by the time he was somewhere in his 30s, I didn't have to run the meeting. I could sit there and I would think a question, he would answer the. He would ask the question. But he, all of his life, he was so. He knew about money. He knew about his money, he knew about the investments that were made. He knew what to do and what not to do with his money. And like I said, that was really protection for me because anything could happen, you know, and the last thing I would want is for that to come back on me that, you know, anything untoward could happen. I wanted him to be versed. I wanted him to know. And he did. He did.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I would, I would say that's something we need to do more of with all of our kids. There's so many kids from our community whose parents. I know this just from my own experience. My parents were not transparent with me about finances. This is not something, I mean, that was like not a child's place. Like, yes, you didn't know how much the rent or the mortgage was or the light bill was. You knew the, you knew the light bill was high. Everybody knew the light bill. Yeah, everybody knew the light bill was high. We just didn't know how high. Right. And so. And I don't know if folks understand how much of a disservice that is to our young people that we keep them from understanding how finances really work.

[Kim Fields]

Right. I felt it was important because it was his money. Yeah, it was his money. But there is a young woman here in the Atlanta area who has a program that is teaching young teens to be entrepreneurs and teaching them financial literacy. And the program, I have never, I haven't been in one of her sessions, but it's gaining a lot, a lot of momentum. And maybe I can connect you with her and you can get Together and form something where. Because it's a beautiful program from what I understand. And she's right here. She's local. She's right here. Yeah. A young woman. A young woman, you know, and it's, and it's about becoming entrepreneurs and about teaching financial legacy.

[Pam Warner]

Do you dream about your sons or how do they come to you?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You can ask.

[Kim Fields]

He hasn't come to me. He hasn't come to me. But he's me being here. It was, this was Malcolm me being here. This was his spirit that being asked to come and co host. And after Lane called me and asked me, I have a picture that sits right in front of me. And I said, you did this. Thank you. And so he's working in other ways. He hasn't come to me, but he's come to other people. He's come to other people.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah. I have a similar experience. I've not had my son come to me in a dream. I've wished for it, like kind of hope for it, but it's hasn't been a thing. Shortly after he passed, I don't know how this came up, but it became a thing to ask for him to show up as a hummingbird.

[Pam Warner]

I just don't say the birds, the hummingbird.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And so just all of a sudden, and it's very interesting, like, I have a bunch of porches on the house and like I could be sitting on the porch and like hummingbirds will fly up to me while I'm sitting. Really. They'll fly up to me if I'm washing the car in the driveway that he normally would be washing or things like that. So I get, I get remarkable. Yeah. I remember right before we were about to go, we were on Jennifer Hudson. We're in the dressing room and just randomly, I think the makeup artist had like hummingbird print all over, like the countertop, like, just random. And then I think when I was on the show, I think Jennifer said something to me about one of her family members and hummingbirds and exactly say so it's just like the, the coming up, coming up and coming up.

[Kim Fields]

No, I haven't had, I haven't. And maybe I'm not paying attention, I don't know. But I, I don't see anything that's being repetitive, you know, that that's in my life. I don't see that. But there are things that have gone on in my life and I know it was because of him. I, I, I'm just real clear that it's because of him. Like I said, just Just being here. He did this. You know, he did all this for my sister.

[Pam Warner]

Was a bird or my father in my dreams to a point where I have to write them down. They were just so real. And it wasn't a strange dream in terms of, oh, and then he was floating down the sky. It was real. It was. He came in and would do things that we would normally do. We have a regular conversation. It was clothes that were in his closet. It was very, very real. And I had nine of them. Then I wrote them all down so I wouldn't forget because they were just so real and vivid. You know, sometimes you wake up and you don't hear the dream. You don't remember the dream. So I wanted to make sure that I remember them. That's why I asked. But, yeah, the bird is a really big one that I didn't know that.

[Kim Fields]

I didn't know that. But you know what? Now that we're talking, I've seen very large birds. Bird feathers. I have seen bird feathers. I have, but that's about the extent of it.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You talked to me earlier about goodbye conversations, and it activated a bunch of thoughts and memories from me. But I was curious from you what those goodbye conversations were like and why they resonated with you as being that.

[Kim Fields]

We were in a conversation about. We were talking about his daughter, and we were talking about. He was. And actually sent me the video. The conversation centered around two therapists, and one was male, one was female, and the female therapist was talking. Was talking about a trauma that had occurred. And so the other therapist, the male therapist, said, well, did you speak to your mother about this? And she said, no, I couldn't. I couldn't tell my mother. And he said, well, that's where the trauma is, because you had no safe place to go with this, with what had happened to you. And in talking to my son. And we went on and talked about some other things. And then I asked him, I said, did you ever not feel safe with me? And he said, never, never. He always felt. He felt safe that I would. He could come to me and for that. And I sent him a text later, and I said to him that you feeling safe with me as a child meant more to me than all of the love and respect that I know you have for me. There's the feeling of safety that you don't feel that you're protected from harm and that you're in a safe place. So that. And when I look back, I was left with that. That he felt safe with me as a Parent. And we had another conversation. I was traveling, and he wanted to know where I was and who I was with.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

It must have been looking real fancy that day.

[Kim Fields]

That was on my phone.

[Pam Warner]

What are you doing? We walked.

[Kim Fields]

And I had learned to wait for him to call me, particularly if, you know, if it wasn't business, I needed to speak with him. I learned. I had learned to wait. Let. He'll call when he has a time to talk, because when he does call, we have more of a personal conversation. So I was in D.C. and I was going to the African American Museum, and he happened to call. I was in the cab, and we just. He wondered, what are you doing?

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Oh, you was definitely on a date. You going to the museum?

[Kim Fields]

Ngc.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You got. Flew down everything.

[Kim Fields]

So he wanted to. He kept asking me these questions, you know, and I kept. I kept. I'd avoid it, but not really giving him an answer. And so he just stopped and he said, you know, I've long known you for a very long time. And we just cracked up because it was like, you know, I know you ain't telling.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You're not telling me the truth.

[Kim Fields]

And we had the biggest laugh that we had. We hadn't had one like that. Just a gut laugh, you know. And so I think those two things and some. A few other conversations we had, more business. And looking at them in totality, those were our. Those were goodbye conversations. Because he said it in a very fatherly way. You know, I've known you for a very long time. And the other conversation were. That was us. That was the way we were. You know, we were friends. Yeah, we were friends. And he was my confidant. He raised me kind of sort of, you know. No, he. Because you were a young mother. I was a young mother. I raised him and shared my growing experiences with him. And as I got. As I got older and he got older, you know, I needed some parenting in some areas, and he was my parent, my coach, not father, but more, you know, just. Just coached and helped and got me to see things differently and to maybe think differently on things. He was my refuge, you know, and my security was my. He was in my world. And so those two things, him feeling safe and him saying, I know you, that that was a completion there. And I see it, and I choose to see it as these were goodbye conversations because they were significant conversations, and they were heartfelt, and they were about he and I, our relationship. And I think. And I think that the joy is that. And his father. His father, he says, you know, we had him for 54 years. And his thing is we, you know, this is what we had. This is what we created. We had this. And so the gratitude in that and, and so that there's. So that the, the grief and the, the longing for more because his life was more complete than your son's. And I can understand that, that feeling of what he could have, the could have. See, I don't have the coulda, woulda, shoulda, but the coulda for you is, is. Is. Is heartbreaking because you began to see the man that he was becoming and how he impacted other people. And that's. That's important.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Excuse me. Got me some water. Thank you.

[Kim Fields]

So that, that hits. That hits. That hits a little differently.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Thank you.

[Kim Fields]

That hits a little differently. You saw the beginnings of the kind of man that he was going to be, the kind of man that he was becoming.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I remember in my son's last weeks, we had some very spirited, colorful conversations around faith and belief. And I remember my son sitting on the island in our kitchen and I was. I was taking him to task about being a non believer because he had said something to me that, like, I don't know, it stirred up something in my soul.

[Kim Fields]

He.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

He said, when I think too often, you give too much credit to God for things that you achieve. And it just activated to me that he didn't really understand, at least at that time, how all this stuff works, that you could put all the effort into something and it not turn out how you want it to, because it's not God's will for it to be that way. You could put minimal or no effort into something. In fact, you could work against yourself on something and it could turn out a certain kind of way because that's how God designed it to work. And it mattered so much to me for my son to understand that, like, the successes are the things that we got to experience as a family. For myself, as an educator, as an entrepreneur, as a social media personality, whatever, that. That was not just because I earned it. It was not because I'm that great that there's a favor at work that put me in that position. And so we're going back and forth about it. I'd taken them, you know, I'm running well, I was running no profits at the time, but we were like visiting a lot of churches and moving around. And we went to this one church, so visions in Grant park shout out to Bishop O.C. allen. And I watched my son find his faith in that church. And I remember us talking after church. He's sitting on the island, going back forth. And he said something. I said, bro, you're really not a believer. And I mean, with all the conviction that he had, he's like, I am a believer. I do believe in God. And he, you know, he's just breaks down into tears and we have this moment. And what I know is, in a lot of ways, that was one of my goodbye conversations. It was God making it very known and clear to me that I raised my son to be a believer when if I didn't have that moment, that would have probably been a thing that haunted me or wondering that I would have had. Like, did my son die of believing? The other conversation that I had with him right before he passed was I say to him, you haven't really achieved much in life if they don't want to name a street after you.

[Kim Fields]

No.

[Pam Warner]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

That's what I told him.

[Kim Fields]

That's a lot of pressure.

[Pam Warner]

That's a lot of pressure. Oh, my God.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Look, we're not here to be regular. We're not here to be regular.

[Kim Fields]

That's right. That's right.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

So, you know, we trying to be Theo. All right. Trying to be legendary. Trying to be legendary. So needless to say, we're working to get a street named after Bryce in the city of Atlanta. And I think you'd be surprised some of the conversations that you have that are foreshadows of the work that you will have to do.

[Kim Fields]

Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing.

[Pam Warner]

You know, I want to. I want to thank you both because you have co hosted with me all day, all day, and then you got me an audience. This never happens. It never happens with me and male Audi.

[Kim Fields]

Matt. Malcolm did it. Malcolm did it. Honey. Malcolm.

[Pam Warner]

Vaudeville here.

[Kim Fields]

Malcolm did it.

[Pam Warner]

And just everything that you've shared is so. You know, we record these shows and I always say, oh, I just don't. I don't want to go too long. It gotta be interesting. This was all just so interesting and rewarding. I'm wondering if we can end on some thoughts about how you find yourselves and have a moment. How do you go about doing that these days? Like, what is some. Or is that a work in progress for you?

[Kim Fields]

It's a work in progress, but it's also being grateful. Being grateful. And to look at my blessings and just the gratitude, the gratitude of it all, even how he died. Being grateful for the way he died without suffering, without. We didn't have to watch him die from some debilitating disease. We didn't have to see. He didn't have a heart attack where he was. He couldn't work. A heart attack or a stroke where he couldn't work. And he's an actor. And that would have been a slow. That would have been an awful. An awful, awful situation for him. Close to death. A living. A living death. Yeah. He wasn't hung. He wasn't shot. He wasn't in some awful accident where he was half alive and half dead. It was clean, and it was over. And I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful. And this is me. And some. Some of you may say that she's really weird, but I'm grateful that my son is living in the state of Georgia with the political climate the way it is. You know, they would shoot him or hang him first and then say, oh, look, this was Theo. One of my fears, anyway, with him being in Georgia, I was always on edge about him living here. He. He had a beautiful and full life. He was in love with his life, with his daughter, with his. With his wife. And I'm grateful for that, that he experienced all that he experienced, that he accomplished the goals that he had set for himself. And he was happy. He was happy. And I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for it, you know, and I'm grateful that I was chosen to be his mother. And I'm grateful that I carried out my parenting so that he could be the person that everyone here and around the world loves and felt and was impacted by his. By. By the loss. I'm grateful for that. And so when I. When I step into the light of gratitude, that. That calms. That calms it down. That calms it down for me.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I appreciate you for sharing that. I think I share a lot of the same sentiments. I think gratitude is an intentional direction, an intentional posture that I've had to take.

[Kim Fields]

Yes.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I remember having to remind myself and tell myself to say, thank you, God, on the day my son passed. To start there, I think I'd asked you earlier, like, if you were on purpose about how you approached your grief. And for me, I had to be on purpose on one thing, because I think there's. I think there's one word that is a result, either of our gaps in faith. Emotional immaturity. I'm not sure, but it's that word why? And the trap of why the trap. The word Wyatt.

[Kim Fields]

It'll send you right down a rabbit hole.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And it was. It was something on that, because I remember being in the driveway talking to my wife And I remember her falling in my arms and repeatedly saying, why? And I. And I had to. To really just stop her in that moment and say, listen, that's the one thing we're not going to do, not going to ask, is we're not going to get caught up on why. Because to believe that God owes us explanation in its own right is just audacity beyond what I will allow myself.

[Kim Fields]

Okay.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Not all things are for our knowing.

[Kim Fields]

Yes.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Not all things are for knowing. In fact, most things are not for our knowing. And so it was that. That being intentional about not getting caught up in why, but being focused on what. What am I supposed to do now? Yeah, what am I supposed to do now?

[Kim Fields]

Absolutely.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

That. That for me has been the saving grace and, and replacing what? The tradition, the worldwide. And. And so that. That was. That's one big, big part. But I think beyond that, it's him, like, really living.

[Kim Fields]

Yes, yes.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

And. And not living with just reckless abandonment, just like.

[Kim Fields]

But being fulfilled in your life.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Seriously, with your life. Like, you want that car? Go buy that car. Hey, like, seriously, you want that car? Go by that car.

[Kim Fields]

A piece of cake, right? Eat the cat.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Eat the cake. I'm glad you said it. Cause I didn't have to because I tried not to say it.

[Kim Fields]

Beat the cake, buy the shoes, whatever, do it.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Serious, Seriously. Because you'll live your life so guarded. You'll live your life worried about the what ifs.

[Kim Fields]

And.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

You can't count the head, the hairs on your head. Well, I can't. Cause I don't have. No.

[Kim Fields]

If.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

If you can't. If you can't count the hairs on your head, then. Then how knowing are you? And how dare you be so anxious? And so, you know, for me, that. That has really shifted how intentional I am about gratitude, about being on purpose and being unafraid. I definitely, I think, have better discernment on what matters and what doesn't. We found ourselves so caught up in things that don't matter. And we found ourselves caught up serving in ways that don't really serve. You know, four years ago, five years ago, folks would just know me as like an advocate or a protester or community organizer or what have you. And not that I don't still believe in the same things, but I found myself not running to put out everybody's fire.

[Kim Fields]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

I didn't owe it to anybody to always be outraged. And that has helped me to really claim my peace. And so I would say, although now I have a heavier heart than I ever Did I have more peace than I ever have?

[Kim Fields]

Mm. Powerful. Powerful. Thank you. I'd like to say two things real quick.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

First, the springboard off of you were worried about Malcolm here in Atlanta. Atlanta is not a real place. So black people don't get strung up in Atlanta. When she say judo, she said Georgia.

[Kim Fields]

The second thing I want to say.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Is we, Malcolm, always like to start the shows with what's really good.

[Kim Fields]

Yeah. So. And, you know, and us not leaving on a.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

A somber note.

[Kim Fields]

That's leap.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

On a great note. Like to go with what he.

[Kim Fields]

He say.

[Pam Warner]

What's good? All right, so that's a good.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

That's a good one.

[Pam Warner]

What's good.

[Kim Fields]

What's good is. Is living. What's good is living and being present, being intentional and being focused. That's good.

[Pam Warner]

What's good, sir.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

What's good is that the village is alive. What's good is, you know, seeing we're looking at a room full of community in a village, you know, from folks who I watched as a kid on TV to, you know, folks who are there when I'm having the lowest, heaviest moment. So it's that the village is alive and thriving, if anybody ever doubted.

[Pam Warner]

Mm. And we always answered it, too, as hosts.

[Kim Fields]

Yeah. What's good.

[Pam Warner]

What's good is seeing you two. That's why I stepped back. What's good is seeing you talk about, you know, a relationship that you wanted to mend and that you were gonna begin and work harder on that, and that you talked about therapy not really working out. But what I saw today, that was little therapy.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Yeah.

[Pam Warner]

And that's what's good. What's good is connecting.

[Kim Fields]

Connecting.

[Pam Warner]

Yeah. So I'm gonna. And I'm gonna go off YouTube. Connecting with all of these people. We had people fly. We had someone fly in from Canada.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Come on, now.

[Pam Warner]

We invited all of the people done.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

Left that universal healthcare to come down here.

[Pam Warner]

And we invited all of the previous guests. Right. We've got Bill Duke over there. You know, we've got. You know, you mentioned someone who you grew up with on tv. We've got Kim Field. I see my husband now.

[Kim Fields]

He see I have to do that.

[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

It's gonna be a long ride home.

[Pam Warner]

You've mentioned.

[Kim Fields]

Exactly.

[Pam Warner]

You've mentioned, you know, Kimberly Lachishe's drone, and, you know, she's here. There's another Kimberly Jones baby medication. You know, there are some lovely people here who are all a part of this community and connecting, and I just. I love the connecting. That's what's good.

[Kim Fields]

Amen.

[Pam Warner]

We are connected always.

[Kim Fields]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Pam Warner]

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[Alfred Shivy Brooks]

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[Kim Fields]

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[Pam Warner]

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[Kim Fields]

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[Pam Warner]

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