Not All Hood (NAH) Podcast

Episode: Love, Loss & Becoming Your Name: Pam Warner on Grief, Growth & Malcolm’s Legacy

Date: November 27, 2025
Hosts: [Unnamed Interviewer—likely Candace Kelley], Pam Warner (guest, mother of Malcolm-Jamal Warner)

Overview

This emotionally resonant episode features Pam Warner, mother of the late actor/musician Malcolm-Jamal Warner. The conversation explores love, loss, parenting, Black identity, the challenges and nuances of co-parenting after divorce, forging legacies, and the process of grieving a child. Through intimate stories, Pam shares insights into Malcolm’s upbringing, career, and character, as well as her own journey as a parent and as a woman navigating profound loss.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Music, The Stage, and Early Lessons

• Music Embedded in Upbringing:
  Malcolm grew up surrounded by music due to Pam’s own love for it and his father’s passion for jazz. This musical environment shaped his later interests and talents.
  • “Music was always in my house… it was always part of him growing up.” (Pam, 01:44)
• Musical Training – Not Always Conventional:
  Pam arranged lessons for Malcolm on instruments they didn’t even own, demonstrating creativity and persistence despite limited resources.
• Love of Performing Started Young:
  Pam enrolled Malcolm in children's theater at age 8, which sparked his passion for acting and later contributed to his ease and joy performing on stage as a musician.
  • “There's this total different energy… when it's live and you're on that stage. And I think that's where he first got the acting bug.” (Pam, 03:52)
• Natural On Stage:
  Despite starting bass guitar “late” (age 25), Malcolm’s innate talent and prior stage experience shone through.

2. The Importance and Story of His Name

• A Name with Intent and Impact:
  • Malcolm was originally to be named after his grandfathers: James Robert Jr.
  • His father, however, decided on "Malcolm Jamal"—inspired by Malcolm X and jazz musician Ahmad Jamal.
    • “He became his name. And that's the genius of his father, you know.” (Pam, 06:38)
• Names as Legacy:
  Pam reflects on the almost fated alignment between Malcolm’s name and the person he became.

3. Co-Parenting and Post-Divorce Family Dynamics

• Relentless Commitment to Family:
  After divorcing Malcolm’s father, Pam insisted on maintaining his relationship with Malcolm despite early difficulties and hurt.
  • “I was determined that he was going to have a relationship with his son. And I worked very hard at that.” (Pam, 07:16)
• Blended Family Strength:
  Pam credits her ex-husband's wife, Carol, for her generous and drama-free role in their family’s unique dynamic, working together through both everyday life and tragedy.
  • “She never interfered in our relationship... she named me her sister wife... quite a woman.” (Pam, 09:45)
  • Memorable moment: Carol encouraging Pam and her ex-husband to grieve together after Malcolm’s passing (10:20).

4. Processing Grief and Outpourings of Love

• Daily Resilience and Distraction:
  Pam shares that each day is different in her grieving process: “My work and the work of continuing his legacy and the business... keeps me busy and distracted.” (12:04)
• Managing Others’ Grief:
  While grateful for the communal support, the overwhelming attention sometimes made Pam withdraw, needing time before she could respond to people’s condolences.
  • “Other people were also very devastated... but I was faced with what I was faced with, and I couldn't immediately respond.” (Pam, 13:25)
• Limits of Empathy:
  She notices well-intentioned people sometimes center their own feelings above hers:
  • “...they really get caught up in their own grief… You could never touch the depth and the breadth of my grief... unless you've also lost a child.” (Pam, 16:06)
• The ‘Grief Economy’ and Old Rituals:
  Pam and the interviewer bond over cultural customs: endless food deliveries, casseroles, and the pressure to interact during loss.
  • “I invited all the people who brought the food over. Well, okay, let’s eat the food.” (Pam, 18:15)

5. Acceptance, Peace, and Final Conversations

• On Peace and Acceptance:
  Pam has reached a place of acceptance and peace in her grief, largely because she doesn’t carry regret or unresolved feelings:
  • “I did not feel, as the term goes, shoulda, coulda, woulda… We had these really fabulous conversations that we did not realize were goodbye conversations.” (Pam, 20:16)
• Safety as a Parent:
  Malcolm assured Pam he always felt safe with her—a profound affirmation that brings her enduring comfort.
  • “You feeling safe with me as a child means more to me than all the love and respect… that was paramount.” (Pam, 22:48)
• Value of Friendship with Your Child:
  Pam sees the ideal parent-child relationship evolving to friendship over time, crucial for support later in life.
  • “Ideally for me... a friendship is formed. Some people feel... my children are not my friends, but that’s untrue.” (Pam, 27:53)

6. Parenting Philosophy & Cultural Lessons

• Self-Reflection and Introspection:
  Lessons are ever-evolving; being present and truly knowing oneself are central to Pam’s worldview, which she instilled in Malcolm.
  • “Introspection is very important so that you can check yourself... how you’re going through the world.” (Pam, 31:14)
• Finding Your Own Lane:
  Pam encourages authenticity over comparison, stressing, “We’re all custom made.”
• Hollywood Parenting Real Talk:
  Pam never intended Malcolm to be a star; theater was just one of many enrichment activities. She wrote a book so other parents could learn the basics of supporting a child in entertainment—and be wary of pursuing it for the wrong reasons.
  • “If this is something you want to do as a child… pursue it as an adult. Don’t put this on your child.” (Pam, 37:55)

7. Boundaries, Strength & Black Motherhood

• Pam’s Protective Nature:
  Her “don’t mess with me/don’t mess with my son” energy helped keep Malcolm grounded in the industry.
  • “Yeah, no, don't... because that's not gonna bode well for you…” (Pam, 40:18)
• Pushing for Respect and Safety:
  Her focus was always on her child’s welfare, not industry side effects or fame.

8. Healing, Friendship & Moving Forward

• Pam’s Support System:
  She credits her friends who intuitively showed up to help, whether cleaning her kitchen or staying for days after Malcolm’s passing.
  • “My friends were there… I’m good. I’m an only child, so I’ve learned to process alone.” (Pam, 25:01)
• Making Lemonade from Lemons:
  Pam is determined to take this tragedy and “make the best pitcher of lemonade ever,” continuing forward with gratitude and seeking growth from every life event.
  • “If you have a lemon, make lemonade. I got a big fat lemon and I'm going to make the best pitcher of lemonade ever.” (Pam, 51:44)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Malcolm’s Musical Roots:
  “He music was always in my house... And his father was into jazz... So in both of the households... music was an influence.” (Pam, 01:44)

• On Malcolm’s Name:
  “His father came up with the name Malcolm Jamal, which was after Malcolm X and Ahmad Jamal... He became his name.” (Pam, 06:35)

• On Maintaining Family After Divorce:
  “I was determined he was going to have a relationship with his son... I was very tenacious and I was just, no, you're going to be here. And this is, you know, you're going to do this.” (Pam, 07:16)

• On Handling Others' Grief:
  “...People did this... their vision becomes very narrow... It’s about them. And it’s all love.” (Pam, 16:05)

• On Acceptance and Peace:
  “The peace comes with acceptance. And I had to accept it because there was no alternative. Sure, there was no alternative.” (Pam, 20:16)

• On the Value of Safety in Parenting:
  “You feeling safe with me as a child means more to me than all of the love and respect I know you have. For me, that was paramount.” (Pam, 22:48)

• On Friendship Between Parent and Child:
  “Ideally for me, that a friendship is formed... because when you become aged and fragile and frail... you need a friend.” (Pam, 27:53)

• On Individuality and Reflection:
  “We’re all custom made... You have to find your own lane... You must do some inward examinations of yourself...” (Pam, 31:38)

• On Hollywood Parenting:
  “If this is your motivation, then don't do it. And I say it, don't do it... because your children want to please parents... It doesn’t mean that’s what they want to do.” (Pam, 38:13)

• On the Illusion of Stardom:
  “It’s just a job. It doesn’t determine who you are... The director or the producer wants that particular attribute. That’s all it is.” (Pam, 42:30)

• On Malcolm’s Transformation to Coaching:
  “He wanted to be transformational. Coaching is what he wanted to do... and that was where he was moving into because he felt that people can make a change.” (Pam, 45:43)

• On Self-Reflection
  “That was always my thing... Yes, this is what it is, but where’s your place in this?” (Pam, 47:10)

• On Making Lemonade:
  “If you have a lemon, make lemonade. I got a big fat lemon and I’m going to make the best pitcher of lemonade ever.” (Pam, 51:44)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Malcolm’s Musical and Theatrical Upbringing (01:24 – 05:37)
• Origin and Meaning of His Name (05:37 – 06:43)
• Co-parenting & Family Post-Divorce (06:43 – 11:16)
• Reflections on Grief and Communal Support (11:46 – 20:16)
• “Goodbye” Conversations and Parenting Legacy (20:16 – 25:01)
• Forming Friendship with Your Child (26:20 – 28:43)
• Lessons on Self-Awareness & Parenting (28:43 – 33:54)
• Pam’s Hollywood Parenting Philosophy (33:54 – 41:13)
• Boundaries & Black Motherhood in Hollywood (41:13 – 44:47)
• Malcolm’s Path: Actor to Coach, and Responsibility (44:47 – 48:49)
• What Do You Want People to Know About You? (50:19 – 52:43)

Conclusion

This episode stands out as a deeply thoughtful tribute to Malcolm-Jamal Warner’s legacy and to the power of intentional, loving Black motherhood. Pam Warner offers wisdom on grief, family, honesty, and acceptance—without shying from the tough truths of parenting or loss. From laughter over casseroles to the sanctity of a child feeling safe, her stories demonstrate both resilience and grace, resonating as guideposts for parents, people processing loss, and anyone wondering how to make meaning after tragedy.

This summary was created to provide listeners with a comprehensive, engaging overview of the episode’s themes and wisdom, complete with timestamps for revisiting pivotal sections.