Podcast Summary: Not All Hood (NAH)

Episode: Trump, ICE & Dual Citizenship: Can They Strip Your Status? | Dr. Omekongo Dibinga Explains

Date: December 25, 2025
Hosts: Candace Kelley (B),
Guest: Dr. Omekongo Dibinga (A), Professor of Political Science at American University, Author of Lies About Black People

Episode Overview

Main Theme:
This episode unpacks the latest headlines around Donald Trump’s renewed focus on immigration, ICE raids, and potential moves to revoke dual (and even birthright) citizenship. Hosted by Candace Kelley, with Dr. Omekongo Dibinga as guest expert, the conversation navigates the legal, historical, and personal dimensions of citizenship for Black and brown Americans, particularly those with immigrant roots. The discussion also touches on evolving media landscapes and the impact of algorithms on cultural narratives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Latest Trump Immigration Push and Dual Citizenship Threat

[00:16 – 04:53]

• Trump has signaled a plan to dramatically increase deportation targets and strip naturalized citizens, especially those with dual citizenship.
• The proposal reportedly would force people to choose between American citizenship and any other nationality.
• Kelley and Dibinga point out how such measures could ensnare millions, particularly Black and brown Americans, including elderly citizens with spotty historical documentation.

Notable Quote:

"Trump is coming for all of us. Black or brown... All they gotta do is make something up and before you know it, you're back in Jamaica, you're back in Brazil, you're back in Congo, and you were a citizen the entire time." — Dr. Dibinga [03:50]

Historical Analogy:

• Dr. Dibinga invokes Hitler’s “Madagascar Plan” as an example of how authoritarian regimes escalate measures to target marginalized groups step by step.

2. The Legal Landscape: 14th Amendment & Birthright Citizenship

[04:53 – 07:21]

• Kelley outlines the transition from state citizenship to federal citizenship post-Civil War and the 14th Amendment.
• Discussion about legal obstacles to revoking citizenship, but also Trump’s history of stretching legal boundaries.
• Dibinga argues the law won’t easily deter Trump: “He is entirely lawless… how many bodies, how many folks are going to lose out in this process?”

Memorable Moment:

• Real accounts cited of individuals being removed from naturalization ceremonies based on suspicion.

3. Community Safety, ICE Tactics, and Personal Preparedness

[07:21 – 10:19]

• Kelley shares the story of people resisting unmarked ICE agents and the ensuing legal danger.
• Dr. Dibinga urges families to be vigilant—never go with unidentified officers and always document the encounter.

Safety Tips:

• Record all encounters and directions if detained.
• Consider wearing tracking devices (like AirTags) since phones are often confiscated.
• Pass on knowledge of legal rights and processes to family and community.

Insightful Quote:

"It's amazing that we're actually having this conversation right now... It's like, we gotta do this with each other right now. And it's really terrible." — Dr. Dibinga [09:59]

4. Personal History: The Black Immigrant Experience

[10:40 – 13:03]

• Dr. Dibinga recounts his family’s journey from the Congo, their integration into the US, and their contributions to academia.
• His mother became a citizen and voted for Kamala Harris in her first US election, a proud family milestone.
• The emotional weight of seeing talented, contributing immigrant families targeted by xenophobic and racist policies.

Notable Reflection:

"He doesn't even know the difference between political asylum and an insane asylum... there are thousands of undocumented white immigrants in this country being penalized for absolutely nothing... when people understand that this is fully about racism, then there are different conversations that we need to have." — Dr. Dibinga [12:10]

5. What Can Be Done? Legal Rights and Community Action

[13:03 – 14:41]

• Importance of knowing and asserting legal rights against unlawful ICE actions.
• Example from New York: public information campaigns clarifying ICE warrant requirements.
• The role of legal professionals and volunteers in keeping communities informed and protected.

Community Rallying Cry:

"If everybody does a little, no one has to do a lot." — Attributed to Karen Hunter, cited by Dr. Dibinga [14:38]

6. The Personal is Political: Protecting Your Family & Navigating Everyday Life

[14:42 – 17:32]

• Dr. Dibinga discusses conversations with his children about carrying identification, recognizing real officers, and always being prepared to record or be recorded for safety.
• He underscores the psychological toll and the reality that even American-born Black and brown citizens are at risk.

Quote:

"Any country where you have to walk around, where any group has to walk around carrying papers, it never ends well." — Dr. Dibinga [17:29]

7. Myths about Immigrants “Taking Jobs”

[23:41 – 26:03]

• Dr. Dibinga debunks the myth that immigrants take jobs from Americans.
• Points out that with fewer immigrants, some sectors are struggling to fill jobs, and those immigrants pay into the tax system without accessing benefits.

Rebuttal:

“The type of jobs that many of these undocumented immigrants are doing right now are going vacant right now. And that’s part of the reason why the economy is in shambles...” — Dr. Dibinga [25:21]

8. The Meaning and Importance of Dual Citizenship

[26:03 – 28:48]

• Dual citizenship offers people connection, security, and potential access to greater opportunity.

• Many, especially Black Americans, seek dual citizenship not just for convenience, but as spiritual and economic backup: “People want to have a connection to home.”

• Caveat: Even with dual citizenship, US policy can reach abroad, and the threat of being targeted might not disappear.

9. Going “Back to Africa”: The Realities of Return

[29:16 – 33:22]

• Caution against idealizing ‘return’ to Africa, as experiences (even within the same continent) vary widely.
• Dr. Dibinga shares his own travel and study-abroad stories, highlighting tensions and stereotyping on both sides.
• Western media's role in shaping divisive narratives between Africans and African Americans.

Poignant Story:

• The showing of “Roots” in Senegal reportedly led to unrest because locals were shocked by the untold history (Dr. Dibinga notes this as hearsay but emblematic).

10. Media, Culture & Algorithm Tyranny

[36:15 – end]

• The conversation transitions from immigration to broader reflections on media, streaming, and who gets to shape culture.
• Platforms, not legacy outlets, are now power brokers.
• The importance of diversifying information sources for both personal empowerment and the accuracy of representation.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On authoritarian escalation:
  “This is an extension of Trump’s path towards a final solution.” — Dr. Dibinga [04:36]
• On documenting encounters:
  “If I’m getting taken, I’m asking anybody to record everything they could possibly record, record a direction I’m going in.” — Dr. Dibinga [09:12]
• On legal literacy:
  “We have to do as much to learn about the law process as possible... Now is the time for us to know our rights.” — Dr. Dibinga [13:28]
• On media and affirmation:
  “Most people go online not looking for information, but looking for affirmation.” — Dr. Dibinga [37:31]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:16] Trump’s new immigration push and dual-citizenship threat
• [02:46] Historical fascist analogies; escalation of targeting
• [04:53] Legal hurdles: 14th amendment and birthright citizenship
• [07:21] Stories of ICE overreach and resisting abduction; Personal safety advice
• [10:40] Dr. Dibinga’s family background—parental contributions, immigrant pride
• [13:03] Community legal education and mutual aid
• [14:42] Raising children with immigrant names in a hostile climate
• [17:32] ICE tactics, colorblind targeting, always being alert
• [23:41] Debunking anti-immigrant job rhetoric
• [26:03] Dual citizenship, belonging, and legal threats
• [29:16] TV show “Coming to Africa” and reality vs. expectations
• [33:22] Stereotypes, pop culture’s global impact, and dialogue
• [36:15] Algorithms, media platforms, and making your voice count
• [57:58] Final takeaways: Go local, own your story, understand the new media landscape

Memorable Moments

• Poetry on Congo:
  "Congo in our playstations, Congo in our cell phones, Congo in our telephones, Congo in our automobiles, Congo everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Because the Congo is not in our mind." — Dr. Dibinga [36:24]
• Family, Food & Holidays:
  Dr. Dibinga shares family traditions, mentions celebrating Kwanzaa and eating ugali (Congolese dish).
  “This is going to be the first one [holiday] without both my parents. So that's going to be very deep.” [39:10]

Thematic Takeaways

• Citizenship for Black and brown Americans is never settled—vigilance and community solidarity are essential.
• State power, unchecked by legal precedent or historical memory, can turn on anyone—knowing your rights matters, but collective action matters more.
• Representation in media and who controls the narrative is as crucial as legal status; diversify your news and your platforms.
• In a media age of algorithms and mergers, Black voices must be proactive—create, own, and localize your content and presence.

Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a sobering, personal, and strategic look at how legal status, lineage, racism, and new media intersect. Dr. Omekongo Dibinga’s mix of historical context, family narrative, and practical advice provides listeners with both urgent warning and hopeful agency—urging Black and brown Americans to be informed, vigilant, communal, and assertive not just in law and politics but in culture and storytelling itself.