Not Dead Yet: Jonah Goldberg

Podcast: Not Dead Yet
Hosts: Ben Sasse, Chris Stirewalt
Guest: Jonah Goldberg
Date: April 7, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of Not Dead Yet features a deep, often humorous, and candid conversation between hosts Ben Sasse and Chris Stirewalt and their friend and guest, Jonah Goldberg (Editor-in-Chief, The Dispatch). The theme revolves around mortality, living intentionally, the meaning of a good life, and how personal and societal institutions shape our lives. The discussion, equal parts introspective and irreverent, covers friendship, vulnerability, journalism, technology's impact on institutions, and how to rebuild what's been lost.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Podcast Purpose, Friendship, and Creative Tension

• Reflecting on mortality: Sasse talks openly about his battle with cancer and how it has brought urgency and perspective to his life and the podcast ([01:43]).
• Friendship as a core theme: Stirewalt and Sasse joke about their personalities and friendship styles, leading to an honest exploration of what makes a friendship real, especially in Washington, D.C.’s transactional culture ([07:21]).
  • Stirewalt: "Networking for me, I would rather have hot pokers shoved into my urethra… Jonah's my actual friend." ([07:27])
• Purpose of the podcast: Sasse and Stirewalt debate whether the show should aim for perfection or embrace "pretty good," and how creative friction helps refine it ([02:59]).

2. Living Well in the Face of Death

• Sasse describes how cancer has forced prioritization and reflection: "Thinking a little bit about how you prioritize when you're on the clock has meant a lot to me." ([12:43])
• The importance of intentional living and being present, despite distractions from illness or routine ([11:01], [12:43]).

3. On Nostalgia, Fallenness & Happiness

• Jonah Goldberg: “The past was never that awesome… What makes this moment sort of uniquely craptacular is, because of technological changes... you see people as abstractions rather than as people.” ([21:31], [24:03])
• The trio agree that life’s joys are “retail” (friends, family, direct connections) rather than mass or nostalgic ([23:23]).

4. Technology, Tribalism, and Institutional Decay

• Goldberg: “So much of your life is simply absorbing it through screens… it lets you see other people... as abstractions… a lot of our tribalism is that at scale.” ([24:03])
• Institutional collapse: The decline in trust and effectiveness of institutions (media, political parties, etc.) is attributed to both technological disruption and leadership failures ([41:30]).
• Comparison of today’s digital/robotic revolution to the Industrial and Agricultural revolutions, emphasizing how technological shifts have left many institutions obsolete ([44:52], [45:41]).

5. Journalism vs. Commentary: Definitions and Decline

• Detailed breakdown of journalism into news reporting, analysis, opinion, and “turd polishing” ([51:07]):
  • News: Pure fact-based reporting
  • Analysis: Blends fact and opinion, predicts likely outcomes
  • Opinion: Argument-based, honest with biases, aims to persuade
  • “Turd Polishing”: Disguised opinion/propaganda, feeding audience bias ([51:24])
• Fan service and tribal media: Discussed dangers of partisan “solving for X” journalism that only tells audiences what they wish to hear ([53:11]).
  • Stirewalt: “I call this algebraic writing... I’m going to find a way to say that we are good and they are bad and ... arrange the integers so that I can say, aha, I solved it.” ([53:11])

6. Acting With Integrity, Institutional Purpose, and Rebuilding Trust

• Goldberg’s ethic: “You become a good person by acting like a good person” ([33:31]).
• Integrity defined not as simply following instincts, but doing the right thing, often inconveniently ([32:42]–[33:43]).
• Institutions should “stay in their lane”—lose credibility when they stray from their core mission (e.g., Sierra Club, ACLU) ([70:19]).
  • Goldberg: “You do what you’re good at... and you outsource to the people and other institutions that are good at the thing you’re not good at.” ([73:39])
• To repair broken institutions, we must allow them to “learn from mistakes,” and elections exist mainly as a hedge against worse outcomes, not as guarantees of virtue ([67:30]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Friendship:

  • Stirewalt: “Networking for me, I would rather have hot pokers shoved into my urethra… Jonah's my actual friend.” ([07:27])
  • Sasse: “Part of a good life is definitely hanging out with your friends and wrestling through how to make sense of all the brokenness of the world. And you're my friend and you and Jonah are friends.” ([08:33])

• On the Value of Institutions:

  • Goldberg: “Institutions exist to mold character for the greater good of the institution and by extension, the society.” ([34:05])
  • Goldberg: “The path to fixing institutions is for people to relearn the idea of staying in your lane.” ([68:16])

• On Integrity & Authenticity:

  • Goldberg: “Integrity lowers the cost of capital.” ([31:12])
  • Goldberg: “You become a good person by acting like a good person.” ([33:31])
  • Goldberg: “It’s not a principle if it’s never inconvenient for you." ([42:02])

• On Nostalgia:

  • Goldberg: “The past was never that awesome. ... In this world, things are never going to be perfect.” ([21:31])

• On Modern Journalism:

  • Stirewalt: “Commentary is journalism, but not all journalism is commentary.” ([48:23])
  • Goldberg: “Analysis is the incestuous child of news and opinion.” ([49:38])
  • Goldberg: “The fourth is what I would call turd polishing.” ([51:07])

• On Technology and Social Change:

  • Goldberg: “If you have robots, why would you have a barn? ... Technology gets in the way, replaces human institutions of interaction.” ([41:29])

• On Elections and Democracy:

  • Goldberg: “I am so done with people talking about democracy in these glorious romantic, poetic terms... You know why democracy is great? Elections. And why are elections good? Because they allow you to fire people. … The rest of the really good stuff that we ascribe to democracy is actually about classical liberalism.” ([65:47])

Important Timestamps

• [01:43]: Sasse reflects on his cancer and how it shapes podcast themes and urgency.
• [07:21-08:33]: Stirewalt and Sasse discuss friendship, vulnerability, and DC culture.
• [21:31]: Goldberg on nostalgia and the myth of a golden past.
• [24:03]: Technology and abstraction of others; beginnings of modern tribalism.
• [27:02-33:43]: Goldberg on emotional presence, loss, learning integrity, and parenting.
• [41:00-46:07]: Institutions, technological disruption, tribal responses, and future change.
• [48:23-53:11]: Definitions of news, analysis, opinion, “turd polishing,” and fan service journalism.
• [65:16-68:16]: Rebuilding institutions, learning from failures, and returning to core missions.

Tone & Language

The episode is defined by sharp wit, frank emotional candor, and nerdy, philosophical asides. The hosts openly rib each other and Jonah, but also share heartfelt reflections on mortality, meaning, and friendship.

Summary Takeaways

• Mortality Focus: Facing death sharpens focus on how to live with gratitude, grit, and joy.
• Friendship Matters: Authentic friendship is central to a meaningful life; vulnerability is hard but invaluable.
• Nostalgia is Dangerous: The past was not as golden as often remembered; present challenges are unique but not uniquely terrible.
• Technology Disrupts: Advances in automation and digital life are at the root of many current societal ills and institutional weaknesses.
• Institutions Need Redefinition: Core purpose and integrity matter; institutions must avoid mission creep and regain public trust by focusing on what they do best.
• Journalism Needs Honesty: Honest, transparent argument is more valuable than false objectivity or pure fan service.
• Renewal is Possible: Mistakes can be instructive, and the process of rebuilding is central to hope for the future.

For Further Listening

• For more of Jonah Goldberg, check out The Dispatch and his podcast The Remnant.
• Recommended previous Not Dead Yet episodes: Mike Rowe, Chris Pratt, Caitlin Flanagan.