Not Just the Tudors: "Dark Side of the Quakers"

Host: Professor Suzannah Lipscomb

Guest: Dr. Erica Canela

Release Date: December 1, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Not Just the Tudors challenges conventional narratives about the Society of Friends (Quakers) by uncovering the movement’s radical and subversive beginnings. Professor Suzannah Lipscomb is joined by Dr. Erica Canela, whose research illustrates that the birth of Quakerism in 17th-century England was forged in the crucible of civil war, trauma, and social upheaval. Together, they explore how early Quakers evolved from radical agitators viewed with fear and suspicion to a community now associated with peace, integrity, and social justice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Quaker Origins in Civil War Trauma (04:06–10:03)

• Historical Context:
  Dr. Canela emphasizes that Quakerism didn’t emerge in isolation but was a direct response to the immense trauma, fear, and instability wrought by the English Civil Wars and the execution of Charles I.

  “The more I would uncover about the human experience of the Civil wars...this is actually where the story has to start.” — Dr. Canela (04:22)

• Psychological State:
  The early 1650s were marked by anxiety, instability, and a sense that the end times were near—creating fertile ground for radical ideas.

2. Why Herefordshire and Worcestershire? (06:51–10:03)

• Regional Focus:
  These counties experienced the full impact of war and were particularly receptive to the Quaker message because people there were traumatized and yearning for something better.

  “They had experienced the chaos and brutality of war. So they were ready for something better.” — Dr. Canela (08:27)

• Radicalism Forgotten:
  The radical past of the Quakers has been obscured by their later reputation for good deeds and pacifism.

3. Borrowed Theologies, Not Pure Innovation (10:03–14:39)

• Religious Marketplace:
  The civil war years enabled the wide circulation of radical religious ideas—Ranters, Seekers, Baptists—mostly via the newly liberated printing press.
• George Fox’s Influence:
  Fox, regarded as the Quaker founder, is depicted as synthesizing various theological currents rather than inventing a wholly new faith.

  “He’s kind of taking some of these ideas and cherry-picking...creating this really nice looking cherry pie.” — Dr. Canela (13:41)

4. Spreading the Message: ‘Plague of Northern Locusts’ (14:39–16:55)

• Hostility & Regional Divides:
  The phrase “plague of Northern locusts” (not Dr. Canela’s own) reflects southern fears about disruptive, charismatic, itinerant Quaker preachers from the north.
• Methods of Growth:
  The Quakers’ organizing prowess is highlighted; although charismatic leaders like Fox and Naylor are central, the movement’s survival depends on grassroots communities.

5. Personality and Early Leaders (18:11–20:42)

• George Fox and Allies:
  Quaker expansion is attributed to Fox’s charisma, but also to other compelling leaders such as James Naylor (“a cult-like figure”) and Richard Farnworth (“triple threat”—writer, speaker, and personal touch).

  “I really can't think of another word to really describe just how deeply people were moved by these early Quaker leaders.” — Dr. Canela (20:37)

6. Apocalyptic Zeal (20:42–22:11)

• End-Times Rhetoric:
  The trauma of the era fueled apocalyptic preaching—“lake of fire” imagery—common in early Quaker writing.

7. Clash with Authority & Social Order (22:11–27:01)

• Disruptive Tactics:
  Quakers actively challenged authority by interrupting church services, denouncing clergy, and ignoring social norms—e.g., refusing to tip their hats to social superiors and using plain speech (“thou/thee”).

  “Their belief is about this divine revelation that anybody can have...You are good to go.” — Dr. Canela (24:04)

• Radical Equality:
  Early Quakers championed gender and class equality, including encouraging women ministers and not showing deference to “superiors.”

8. Persecution, Prosecution, and Imprisonment (27:01–30:33)

• Authorities’ Response:
  The church and local officials saw Quakers as a threat, responding with imprisonment, harsh fines, and social ostracism.
• Persistence Despite Hardship:
  Dr. Canela marvels at the movement’s survival.

  “It is a miracle that they survived because...all the cards were dealt against them.” — Dr. Canela (31:11)

9. Evolution to Survival & Self-Policing (30:33–33:49)

• Inward Reform:
  Under greater persecution (Clarendon Code, 1660s), Quakers became more internally organized and began disciplinary oversight within their own ranks, emphasizing respectability.

10. Persecution vs. Prosecution: Where’s the Line? (34:41–39:39)

• Complexity of Martyrdom:
  Dr. Canela distinguishes between legitimate legal prosecution and outright persecution, noting the Quakers knowingly broke the law but also suffered vindictive treatment.

  “This is one of my favorite subjects...Is it persecution or is it prosecution because they are breaking the law and being punished for it.” — Dr. Canela (34:41)

11. The Case of Susanna Pearson: Miracles and Scandal (39:39–45:11)

• Failed Resurrection:
  Dr. Canela narrates the story of Susanna Pearson, a Quaker woman who attempted to publicly resurrect a drowned man (William Poole)—resulting in scandal and ridicule for the movement.

  “She starts sort of straddles his body and starts, like, massaging his chest...commanding him to rise. He doesn’t come back to life. It doesn’t work.” — Dr. Canela (43:05)

• Press Reaction:
  The incident fueled anti-Quaker sentiment and was widely mocked in contemporary pamphlets.

12. The Shift to Moderation & Organization (45:11–47:04)

• Second Day Meeting:
  The formation of an editorial board in 1673 brought increased control over Quaker publications, toning down fiery rhetoric in favor of self-defense and measured argument.

  “They do what an editor does, right? ... You know what? This language is a little too spicy. ... Less condemnation here, a little bit more love.” — Dr. Canela (46:10)

13. Quaker Transformation and Mainstream Acceptance (47:04–49:30)

• Rise of Tolerance:
  By the late 17th century, Quakers accepted pluralism and became known for honesty and good business, a stark contrast to their disruptive origins.
• Enduring Legacy:
  The host and Dr. Canela reflect on the irony that the radical Quakers became the epitome of respectability—so much so that an American oatmeal company chose them as their mascot.

  “We go from...digging up people from the dead, to...being a global sort of spokesperson for good oatmeal.” — Dr. Canela (49:03)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Environment for Radicalism:

  “It probably does feel like the end times are coming.” — Dr. Canela (05:23)

• On the Movement’s Edgy Beginnings:

  “Quakers have this kind of wild past that has been...buried by centuries, for all intents and purposes, good people and good deeds.” — Dr. Canela (09:09)

• On Radical Tactics:

  “They would burst into churches during services and...tell the congregation, you are following a hireling priest.” — Dr. Canela (22:28)

• On Gender Equality:

  “That is radical...this idea that women can be preachers as well. ... Girl, if you have something to say, you say it. You do. You do you, girl.” — Dr. Canela (24:42)

• On Survival through Organization:

  “If we don’t change our ways, we are not going to survive.” — Dr. Canela (32:14)

• On Evolving Reputation:

  “How did we get here? ...from busting into churches, from digging up people from the dead, to...good oatmeal.” — Dr. Canela (49:03)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• [04:06] – War trauma as a precondition for Quaker radicalism
• [10:20] – Roots of Quaker theology in other radical traditions and groups
• [14:39] – “Plague of Northern locusts” and opposition faced by itinerant preachers
• [18:30] – Charismatic leadership and early converts
• [22:25] – Why authorities felt threatened by Quaker doctrine & actions
• [27:01] – Persecution, legal strategies, and stories of martyrdom
• [39:39] – The Susanna Pearson miracle attempt and its fallout
• [45:41] – Editorial control and the Quaker turn toward respectability
• [47:04] – Quaker integration and transformation into icons of virtue

Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, witty, and rich with historical anecdotes. Dr. Canela brings infectious enthusiasm and brings lesser-known, dramatic stories to light, often with humor and empathy for her historical subjects. Professor Lipscomb guides the discussion with curiosity and scholarly insight, making the past feel simultaneously strange and familiar.

This episode offers a fascinating and subversive take on early Quaker history—showing that before they were synonymous with pacifist respectability, they were seen as dangerous rebels whose radical actions and beliefs threatened the English establishment and who were forced to adapt (and survive) through both internal transformation and external repression.