Not Just the Tudors — Fig Leaves & A Grumpy Jesus: Renaissance to Baroque Art
Podcast: Not Just the Tudors (History Hit)
Host: Professor Suzannah Lipscomb
Guest: Verity Bab (art historian & comedian)
Date: October 2, 2025
Overview
This episode explores art history's transition from the Renaissance to the Baroque, focusing on the quirks, scandals, and humour often hidden within famous masterpieces. Joining Suzannah Lipscomb is Verity Bab, art historian and comedian, whose new book "The History of Art in One Sentence" brings irreverence and accessibility to centuries of art — from Donatello and Michelangelo to Caravaggio and Vermeer. Together they dissect the myths, memorable characters, and surprising stories behind the paintings — all with a healthy dose of laughter.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Verity Bab’s Approach to Art History
[03:06–05:20]
- Verity brings comedy and accessibility to art’s “stuffy” reputation, using "one sentence answer" videos and live comedy events at the National Gallery.
- Her entry point to art history: “I knew that in this day and age I had to be putting something online. And a sentence was just about how much I could be bothered to do. So the book is actually really born out of that fundamental laziness.” (Verity Bab, 03:12)
- Suzannah notes the effort in condensing complexity: "To make things short is actually much more difficult often than making them long." (04:05)
- Verity’s comedic approach is rooted in highlighting the human failings, feuds, and funny stories behind historical figures.
2. Why Personality and Story Matter in Art History
[05:20–07:51]
- People make history relatable; stories of artists behaving badly are far more engaging than dry lists of dates.
- Verity: “I found history quite difficult… but as soon as I was able to pinpoint, oh, but this person is doing this interesting thing. Or aren't these couple appalling? Then suddenly there was something to make it a bit more human and real.” (05:45)
3. Renaissance in Italy: What, Where, Why?
[09:10–11:54]
- Definition: “The name comes about from the Italian for rebirth... this real time of... restructuring and a fresh start after the Middle Ages.” (Verity Bab, 09:35)
- Harking back to Antiquity: Artists and patrons looked to Greco-Roman art for purity, beauty, and intellectual ideals.
- Ever-changing nostalgia: “Every 10 years someone has written an article saying everything has gone to pot. What's happened to proper manners? No one wants to work anymore… Every generation has said, the kids these days are awful. But that's always been the case.” (Verity, 11:29)
4. Patronage, Power, and the Church
[11:54–13:41]
- Wealthy families like the Medici shifted art from exclusive church commissions to displays of family power and legacy.
- Guilds offered early training and created a ‘family tree’ of artists.
- “It’s without these families commissioning them that art history, as we know, would not exist, other than the sort of really purely religious things made within the church.” (12:15)
Memorable & Quirky Details
5. Why Do Renaissance Paintings Look So Airbrushed?
[13:41–14:43]
- Sfumato technique: Allowed painters to delicately blend oils, creating flawless skin.
- “Everyone’s wearing primer, everyone’s got a matting mousse on. Everyone looks gorgeous.” (13:48, Verity)
6. What’s Up with Baby Jesus Looking Like a Tiny Old Man?
[14:43–15:29]
- Theological reason: The "homunculus Christ concept" — Jesus was painted with the proportions of a grown man to emphasize divinity.
- Suzannah: “At the risk of sounding blasphemous, he does remind me of Benjamin Button quite a lot in these pictures.” (15:24)
7. Why Is the Virgin Mary Always in Blue?
[15:40–16:39]
- Blue pigment from lapis lazuli was rare and more precious than gold: “It only came from one mine in Afghanistan… The Church control[led] the use of lapis lazuli to make sure that it’s basically only ever used for really significant figures in the Bible, like Mary.” (15:44, Verity)
8. The Mystery of Michelangelo’s “Bosoms”
[16:44–19:19]
- Michelangelo’s female nudes often look anatomically male with “tennis balls strapped on.”
- Theories: Michelangelo’s artistic preference for male bodies; the Renaissance’s idea that male form was the highest beauty; or newly suggested interpretation of breast cancer in sculpture "Night."
- Leonardo da Vinci’s jab: “He always makes his male figures look like a bag of walnuts.” (18:27, Verity)
9. The Rock-Star Life of Raphael
[19:19–20:49]
- Raphael was “fit and sleeps around a lot because you would.” Infamously, he allegedly died from too much sex.
- “The only way to get Raphael to concentrate for long enough is to get him to get his girlfriend to be a couple of doors down to save on the time [from work].” (19:29, Verity)
Art Beyond Italy: Expansion and Humor
10. Northern Renaissance — More Down to Earth, More Scatological
[21:04–23:10]
- Ideas spread via artists’ travel and printing. Northern works became cheekier, focusing on ordinary people and bodily functions.
- Brueghel’s "Netherlandish Proverbs": “It’s like a Where’s Wally? But everyone in the painting is pooing out of a hole or weeing against something or having it off with each other.” (22:26, Verity)
11. Bosch’s Bizarre Imagery
[25:41–27:32]
- Bosch’s visions were filled with psychedelic, surreal imagery: “If Hieronymus Bosch had been born in the 1890s, he would have ended up being a surrealist.” (26:01, Verity)
- Both Bosch and Brueghel offer a rare glimpse at 16th-century humor, often missing from written sources: “Jokes don’t get written down… we don’t see this evidence of people having a laugh.” (27:32, Verity)
12. The Mysterious and The Realistic
[28:38–32:05]
- Jan van Eyck’s Arnolfini Portrait: “We’re not really sure who it’s of. We’re not really sure why it was made.” (28:58, Verity)
- Dürer and Holbein: High realism, but sometimes fanciful (e.g., Dürer’s rhinoceros—drawn without having seen one).
From the Renaissance to Mannerism and Baroque
13. Shifts in Style and Attitude
[32:05–34:28]
- Mannerism amped up drama and emotion, breaking “perfect harmony” of the Renaissance.
- Michelangelo’s shift: compared via Sistine Chapel ceiling vs. his “Last Judgment.” Strong personalities entered their critics into history with biting satirical detail (“papal minister… naked, with donkey ears, being bitten on the penis by a snake”—Michelangelo’s revenge, 34:26).
14. Censorship: The Fig Leaf Campaign
[35:07–36:27]
- Driven by the Council of Trent, an effort to “make everything more modest” by covering nudes with fig leaves and strategically placed objects.
- “Sort of the first move of cancel culture. Real censorship happening.” (35:07, Verity)
15. Enigmatic and Playful — Bronzino and Arcimboldo
[38:04–40:28]
- Bronzino’s Allegory with Venus and Cupid: Allegedly includes a personification of syphilis as a sly dig at the French king.
- Arcimboldo: Painted faces made of fruits and books; an outlier, but evidence that “everyone has always had a sense of humor.”
The Dutch Golden Age and Baroque Art
16. Merchant Class and Female Artists
[40:28–42:08]
- Dutch Golden Age: A rising middle class fuels more art, with women becoming significant artists (some outselling Rembrandt at the time).
- Ordinary life depicted: “You have a lot of paintings that have children in or have women in domestic scenes… in their homes.”
17. Vanitas Paintings – Art as Memento Mori
[42:08–44:54]
- Still lifes rich in hidden symbolism and reminders of mortality: “Basically these paintings were designed for the Dutch middle classes to have in their homes as a reminder that death comes to us all. That money cannot shield you from demise. In the end, one must remain humble.” (42:08, Verity)
18. Baroque Drama, Technique, and Caravaggio
[44:54–46:31]
- Baroque style: More emotion, “relatable human darkness,” and chiaroscuro (dramatic light-shadow contrasts).
- Caravaggio: The “ultimate bad boy,” a violent murderer but “a lovable scamp” five centuries later.
- “He straight up killed someone in a duel and he killed him in a way which highly suggests that he was aiming to castrate him while he did so.” (46:31, Verity)
19. Method Acting in Marble — Bernini’s Self-Portrait
[48:11–49:09]
- Bernini, for realism, “spent the entire time while he was carving [a damned soul] continuously burning his hand on a candle to really get across that ow, I’m in hell look.” (48:15, Verity)
Playfulness, Hidden Messages, and Humanity in Art
20. Playfulness and Hidden Meanings
[49:09–51:07]
- The idea of “hidden” elements—whether proverbs, sly jokes, or moral jabs—runs throughout art’s history.
- Humor, naughtiness, and sex are ever-present, even when official artifacts are “solid and reliable and quite pure of the messiness of human nature.”
21. The Importance of Humour
[51:07–51:41]
- Verity’s book and perspective offer a way into art for those put off by jargon and solemnity: “What I personally needed in order to. To feel like I liked art and knew about art was were these stories of men behaving badly.”
- Professor Lipscomb: “You have given a gift to the world in your book, which is tremendous amounts of fun. The history of art, in one sentence. I loved it.” (51:07)
Notable Quotes & Moments
- “Everyone wanted to look fit.” (Verity Bab, 13:48)
- “Baby Jesus… slightly spooky thing going on… excellent control of his neck for a newborn.” (14:48, Verity)
- “If Hieronymus Bosch had been born in the 1890s, he would have ended up being a surrealist.” (26:01, Verity)
- “People have always found bums funny. Sexy. Yes.” (28:38, Verity)
- “He always makes his male figures look like a bag of walnuts.” (18:27, Leonardo da Vinci via Verity)
- “Everyone has always loved shagging, everyone has laughed at Pooh. Not everyone has murdered in cold blood, but some of them did.” (49:45, Verity)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Verity’s intro & method — [03:06–05:20]
- Renaissance “rebirth” explained — [09:10–11:54]
- Sfumato & perfect Renaissance skin — [13:41–14:43]
- Homunculus Christ — [14:43–15:29]
- Mary in Blue — [15:40–16:39]
- Michelangelo’s anatomy — [16:44–19:19]
- Raphael’s reputation — [19:19–20:49]
- Brueghel & bodily humor — [22:10–23:10]
- Bosch’s surrealism — [25:41–27:32]
- Arnolfini Portrait mystery — [28:38–30:06]
- Dürer’s rhinoceros & realism — [30:30–32:05]
- Mannerism & Baroque emerge — [32:05–34:28]
- Fig Leaf campaign — [35:07–36:27]
- Bronzino & syphilis as a diss — [38:04–39:09]
- Arcimboldo’s faces — [39:11–40:28]
- Dutch Golden Age, female artists — [40:28–44:54]
- Vanitas meaning — [42:08–44:54]
- Baroque drama & Caravaggio’s misdeeds — [44:54–46:31]
- Bernini’s self-punishing sculpture — [48:11–49:09]
- Humour & humanity in art — [49:09–51:07]
In Summary
This episode is a sparkling journey through Renaissance and Baroque art with Professor Suzannah Lipscomb and comedian-historian Verity Bab. They root out the scandal, comedy, and quirks underpinning centuries of beautiful paintings. Listeners will come away with a new appreciation for the humor, complexity, and humanity pulsing beneath art’s polished surfaces — and for the irreverent experts who help make sense (and fun) of it all.