Not Just the Tudors – "Katherine Howard's Deadly Affairs"
Podcast: Not Just the Tudors (History Hit)
Host: Professor Suzannah Lipscomb
Guests: Gareth Russell, Dr. Nicola Clark
Date: February 12, 2026
Episode Overview
In this episode, Professor Suzannah Lipscomb explores the short, dramatic, and ultimately tragic life of Katherine Howard, Henry VIII’s fifth wife. Instead of focusing solely on scandal and sensation, the conversation seeks out the humanity, agency, and context surrounding Katherine Howard—challenging the cliches of "foolish seductive victim" or "powerless pawn." Through the expertise of historians Gareth Russell and Dr. Nicola Clark, listeners are guided through the complexities of Katherine's upbringing, relationships, and the deadly court politics that led to her execution before she turned 20.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Katherine Howard: Background and Early Life
[03:33 – 08:42]
- Katherine was of noble birth but raised with few resources and much uncertainty.
- Her mother died young; her father fled to Calais due to debts, leaving her in the care of her step-grandmother, the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk at Chesworth House.
- The household, unlike the strict Victorian myths, was a large, chaotic environment where noble and gentry girls mingled and supervision was "patchy, especially at night."
- Dr. Nicola Clark: “Catherine’s early years...were marked less by the stability we might expect for a noble child, more by absence, uncertainty and financial strain.” [04:50]
2. Early Romantic Relationships
[11:22 – 21:36]
- With Henry Mannox: Her music teacher, a relationship marked by a slight power imbalance, but not as predatory or abusive as sometimes suggested.
- "He does pressure her...‘If you really loved me, you would prove it.’ She holds out." — Historian [12:12]
- Mannox boasted crudely; Katherine broke it off herself, demonstrating agency: “She says, ‘I care not for you,’ and calls it off.” [13:46]
- With Francis Dereham: More open, passionate, and perhaps serious—described as a possible love match, jokingly calling each other “husband and wife.”
- They may have contracted a promise for future marriage, a legal gray area for the time.
- Dereham took the relationship more seriously, gave Catherine gifts; the household generally knew of the romance.
3. Household Dynamics and Moral Judgments
[08:42 – 11:22]
- Victorian moral anxieties colored later interpretations, wrongly equating social mingling with immorality.
- Aristocratic and gentry girls mixed and even shared beds—normal for the time, not scandalous as later histories implied.
- "Victorians probably thought these women...were dragging Catherine down to their level. Well, in fact, the evidence does not really suggest that at all." — Historian [10:17]
4. Transition to Court and Rise to Queenship
[22:56 – 28:50]
- After the failure of Henry’s marriage to Anne of Cleves, Katherine drew the king’s eye.
- Henry, seeking “both adoration and sons,” quickly married her after Anne’s annulment.
- She was still a teenager, suddenly presiding over the largest female household in the country—a dizzying change.
- Gareth Russell: "It's mostly sunshine. Henry seems infatuated with her...the initial months are almost an extended honeymoon." [25:28]
- The first hiccup came when Henry became seriously ill in Lent 1541. He shut Catherine out of his sickroom, shaking her confidence.
5. The Return of Francis Dereham
[28:50 – 34:32]
- Dereham’s reappearance was dangerous—he held letters/documents that could prove damaging, and sought a job in Catherine’s household.
- The Howard family tried to manage him, but Dereham, feeling entitled and reckless, made veiled references to his past with the Queen.
- “Francis is charming, but darkly charming...and in Francis’ hands are everything that is needed to destroy Catherine’s position as queen.” — Gareth Russell [32:01]
6. Affair and Downfall: Thomas Culpepper
[37:22 – 49:25]
- During the royal progress to the North, Catherine began secret, late-night meetings with Culpepper, facilitated by Lady Rochford (~Club Med with codpieces).
- Culpepper was a Privy Chamber favorite, attractive, ambitious and, by some reports, morally ambiguous if not outright dangerous.
- "The dark side of Culpepper could have been extremely dark or moderately dark...he is someone, I think, who can't process the possibilities of consequences." — Gareth Russell [40:56]
- The meetings were risky but not initially criminal under Tudor law; only later would “intent” become treasonous.
- Gareth Russell: "If you set aside that really horrific possibility, there's still a lot about Culpepper that is tricky and murky..." [41:28]
- Culpepper and Catherine “commit” emotionally, but evidence for outright sexual consummation remains ambiguous.
7. Motives and Misjudgments
[49:25 – 53:42]
- Many misread Catherine’s actions as naïve or stupid, ignoring both her youth and the context—at this point, Henry’s health was failing, and planning for a life as dowager queen wasn’t outrageous.
- Law didn’t define their meetings as treason until later; even Parliament hesitated over Henry’s eventual interpretation.
8. Collapse and Execution
[54:54 – End]
- The bombshell: Archbishop Cranmer handed Henry a letter outlining Catherine’s premarital affairs and possible pre-contract.
- The investigation swept up Catherine’s household and former acquaintances.
- Catherine’s own confession (“done by force”) was likely a desperate move to save herself; most confessions reflect self-preservation, not clear truth.
- Culpepper denied adultery but admitted “intention”—enough under new law for a capital conviction.
- Catherine, stripped of her title and held in isolation, was executed on 13 February 1542. She faced death with composure, neither declaring innocence nor claiming a grand romantic story.
- Professor Lipscomb sums up:
“She was neither a simpleton nor a cold-blooded schemer...Her tragedy exposes not only her own misjudgments, but also the ruthless reach of Tudor power and a culture that could turn private intimacy into public treason whenever it suited the Crown.” [59:30]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the perception of Katherine's early years:
“Catherine’s early years...were marked less by the stability we might expect for a noble child, more by absence, uncertainty and financial strain.”
— Dr. Nicola Clark [04:50] -
On agency in relationships:
"She holds out. She says, I don’t think so...She says, I care not for you, and calls it off."
— Historian [13:46] -
On household norms:
"So aristocratic and gentry young women mixing more freely was common...not servants necessarily, but not of the same standing as Catherine is."
— Historian [09:44] -
On the Queen’s transformation:
"She was meant to embody the court, learning how it worked even as she was meant to represent it."
— Professor Lipscomb [24:14] -
On Culpepper’s character:
"He is someone, I think, who can't process the possibilities of consequences because they haven’t happened to him yet."
— Gareth Russell [43:02] -
On the treason law’s cruelty:
“The law was literally being reshaped around her and against her.”
— Professor Lipscomb [57:21] -
On Katherine’s true tragedy:
“Her youth was her crime and she paid for it with her life.”
— Professor Lipscomb [59:53]
Important Timestamps
- [03:33] – Professor Lipscomb introduces the investigation into Katherine’s youth and character.
- [08:42] – Victorian myths vs. reality of Chesworth House.
- [11:22] – Music lessons and her relationships with Mannox and Dereham.
- [25:28] – Gareth Russell on the “honeymoon” phase of Katherine’s queenship.
- [28:50] – The danger of Francis Dereham’s reappearance.
- [37:22] – Secret meetings with Thomas Culpepper begin.
- [40:56] – Culpepper’s background and dangerous reputation.
- [44:24] – The emotional “declaration of love” between Catherine and Culpepper.
- [49:25] – Economic and political motivations for Lady Rochford and others.
- [54:54] – Cranmer’s revelation and the collapse of Catherine’s position.
- [59:53] – Professor Lipscomb’s summation of Catherine’s fate and legacy.
Tone and Language
- The tone is conversational, thoughtful, and at times personal, especially when Professor Lipscomb reflects on empathy and historical context.
- The language is clear but never simplistic; complex Tudor social rules and legal definitions are explained in accessible terms.
- The hosts and guests are careful not to overdramatize, instead restoring depth and nuance to Katherine Howard’s story.
Summary
This episode is a nuanced, empathetic, and gripping exploration of Katherine Howard’s rise and fall. It challenges reductionist views of her as merely foolish or a victim, revealing a bright, ambitious, sometimes reckless young woman swept up in Tudor power games and changing legal definitions of treason. The episode expertly blends biography, political intrigue, and social history—all set against the dangerous background of Henry VIII’s court.