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Not Just the Tudors
The Rise of St Paul's Cathedral
00:51:41
How Sir Christopher Wren turned the Great Fire's destruction into enduring beauty
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- [00:00]
A
Hello, I'm Professor Susannah Lipscomb. If you'd like Not Just the Tudors ad free to get early access and bonus episodes, sign up to historyhit with a historyhit subscription. You can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries, including my own recent two part series A World Torn, the Dissolution of the Monasteries and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com forward/subscribe.
- [00:32]
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- [01:06]
C
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- [01:41]
A
Hello, I'm Professor Susannah Lipscomb, and welcome to Not Just the Tudors From History Hit the podcast in which we explore everything from Anne Boleyn to the Aztecs, from Holbein to the Huguenots, from Shakespeare to samurais, relieved by regular doses of murder, espionage and witchcraft. Not, in other words, just the Tudors, but most definitely also the Tudors. When I look across the River Thames from the Tate Modern on London's Bankside, I'm struck at just how dominant the monumental dome of St. Paul's Cathedral remains, despite the overwhelming forest of steel and glass monolithic towers just to its east. It's extraordinary to think that this is the same St. Paul's dome that emerges defiantly out of the dense shroud of smoke and fire in that famous photograph of blitz torn London in the Second World War. And it's a site that has captivated onlookers and been a beacon of faith and resilience for more than 300 years. In fact, it was exactly 350 years ago, in 1675, that Christopher Wren was given the go ahead and to embark on creating his timeless, commanding masterpiece. Just nine years previously, onlookers would have been witness to a completely different spectacle. London, September 1666. The city is ablaze. Flames roar down narrow lanes. The skies are choked, Black citizens are fleeing for their lives, their children flung over their shoulders, Chests containing all the worldly possessions they could grab, dragged over the cobblestones. Old St. Paul's Cathedral, with its mighty stone vaults and spire, for centuries the pride of London's skyline, even if damaged in 1561, was no match for the furious inferno. Molten lead poured from the ruthless and Paul's like a river. The diarist John Evelyn watched in horror as the stones of St. Paul's fly like Granados, shattering with the explosive heat and plummeting into the flames below. Evelyn will later write of the miserable sight the cathedral's roof fallen or the vast ruins. Not only were London's homes and markets destroyed, but its spiritual centre was too, a husk of charred stone where an imposing church once stood. But out of this devastation emerged an unlikely figure, Christopher Wren, a man more at home with telescopes and geometry than masons and mortar. Called upon to envision a new cathedral, Wren faced a city desperate for hope and a church in need of resurrection. It was in 1675, after his early plans were debated and revised, that Wren submitted the warrant design. A radical, ambitious blueprint granted royal approval that would transform the London skyline. With the rubble still heaped and resurgum, I will rise again. Carved among the ruins, a new dream was born. From disaster and loss, St. Paul's would rise, not only rebuilt, but reimagined, a soaring monument to the glory of God, to innovation and to the enduring human spirit. When Queen Anne toured the completed cathedral, her assessment was brief but telling. In the language of 1710. It is awful, it is amusing, it is artificial, meaning, awe inspiring, amazing and artistic. Wren's relief was palpable. To learn more about Wren, his visionary warrant design and what became of it, I'm joined by architectural historian Dr. Elizabeth Deans, assistant Director at the Axelson Johnson Centre for the Study of Classical Architecture at the University of Cambridge. Her forthcoming monograph, Wren's Architects, A Material History of Practice in England circa 1660-1730, examines the office of the Works under the Surveyorship of Sir Christopher Wren. Together, we're going to journey through fire, loss, vision and triumph. The story of how St. Paul's Cathedral was consumed and how Christopher Wren's genius and England's resolve made it rise again. I'm Professor Susannah Lipscomb. And this is not just the Tudors from history hit. Dr. Deeds, welcome to the podcast.
- [06:13]
D
Thank you so much. That was a fantastic introduction and very evocative of the Great Fire.
- [06:18]
A
Well, I mean, it's quite an extraordinary event, isn't it? Of course. And this, it's really, I suppose, at the heart of everything we're talking about today. St. Paul's fate is decisively sealed by the Great Fire. But as I slightly alluded to as well, it'd been in decline for about a century before that. Hadn't.
- [06:38]
D
Had. Absolutely. In fact, much of the public in London since the 16th century, end of the 16th century, were complaining about the look of their city's mother church, as it were. It had been in decline, well, since the late 16th century. One of the major events that caused a great fracture in the body of the church was when it was struck by lightning, or almost certainly struck by Lightning in 1561, when the steeple then had been hit, which caused the roofs and major structural damage collapsed. And the public realized this. And the king, King James I, also recognized this later, when the cathedral had not been repaired under Elizabeth I, the public had mentioned that it was in a bad way. And there's records of stones falling from the body of the church, killing horses and also killing people. So this was a really a major problem with the church that needed repair. One of my favorite accounts of what the church was to the public in the early 17th century was an official publication called the Complaint of St. Paul's to All Christian Souls. And it was essentially a book of poems urging King James I to repair their cathedral.
- [08:00]
A
But this does not happen. And I want to know why. I mean, if you've got the king being petitioned, if you've got people like Inigo Jones on hand who could restore the cathedral that is at the heart of London, why is it not happening?
- [08:18]
D
Yeah, it's a great question. And I think essentially it boils down to disorganization and a lack of leadership. And of course, within that is a lack of funding. And if you don't have the money to perform surveys and repairs, and most of all, materials for rebuilding your building isn't going to go anywhere. So James I had gone to the fabric of the cathedral and recognized that it was in a major state of decay. He had gone several times and realized it was ruinous and it was dangerous. And he did have a commission formally open, which included then the Bishop of London, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and some of the most important London figures. And of course, the Dean and chapter of The Cathedral of St. Paul's Jones did provide designs for that commission, but the problem was that there was just simply no money, there was no funds to put forth those designs. So effectively, when James I died in 1625, there just weren't funds to see those first round of designs that Inigo Jones proposed through.
- [09:34]
A
And I think it'd be fair to say that Charles I had some other matters on his hands whilst he was king. Then, of course, we've got the Civil War. The period we know is interregnum, the Republic. And with the Restoration, then we get the great fire. That's 17th century history in a nutshell there. But when we get after the Great Fire, the need to rebuild. Seems strange that Christopher Wren is the person who was turned to. He's an unlikely character to take on this huge task, isn't he? He wasn't even an architect to begin with, was he?
- [10:09]
D
No, he wasn't. He's a formidable person in England's history. Yet we know little about his transition from, let's say, mathematician, scientist to architect. But what we do know is that it the first years of the Restoration, when Charles II reclaims the throne, that Ren starts to turn to architecture, to think about how mathematical principles can be applied to brick and stone. And he is, he's an incredibly interesting and complicated figure. We know so much about him professionally and intellectually, but we actually know so little about his personality. And it's that that I think keeps so many Ren scholars engaged in his contribution to architect. But he turns to architecture almost certainly through his major connections, like the Archbishop of Canterbury, Gilbert Sheldon, who offers him to work on an academic theater or a place of congregation in Oxford in the first years of the Restoration. And then a contact through his uncle, Bishop of Ely Matthew Wren in Cambridge. So he's working in the collegiate centers, Oxford and Cambridge, to restore. Restore not only their place in post restoration Britain, but also the Church and its role in these collegiate universities and also the Church in England more broadly. So it's really through contacts that he first starts to work on architecture and he learns through books, European books specifically. And that is the first turn that we see in Christopher Wren.
- [11:53]
A
What about his visit to Paris in 1665? How pivotal was that?
- [11:58]
D
Yes, I think it's not thought about enough, his visit to Paris. And I think about this kind of psychologically actually for Ren first, because if we consider the most formative periods of our life in our 20s, in our late 20s, in the places that we've seen and been emotionally and intellectually affected. Those end up forming our professional and personal lives for the rest of our lives. Now, how Wren came to go to Paris, we're not exactly sure. But what we can be sure about is that it was high figures like John Yvonne, like the current surveyor, John Denham in the Royal Office of Works, and also Henry Germain, the ambassador to France at the time, who had worked collectively to send letters to shape his journey abroad. Now, what I suspect, based on the documents and based on all of the existing evidence, is that there was rationale that Wren was going to become the next king. Surveyor John Dunham wasn't well, and Wren had all of the qualities and qualifications at that point to become a tremendous surveyor. And I should also mention that Paris for Wren was not only about seeing buildings, not seeing architecture. It was also about seeing how professional building organizations like the Batimon Duart was under Louis XIV and his first minister, Jean Baptiste Colbert and his Batimon du Roi, that really shaped how architecture was built. And this was really critical for Rennes because it's one thing to see a building being constructed, or as Rennes said, seeing a building and rising was quite another to see the key figures like architects and masons and carpenters to be working in concert at the building site. And I think this is key. And the key building site for Rennes, which acted as a veritable school, he calls it a school of architecture, was seeing the construction of the Louvre, the palace that Colbert insisted Louis XIV update and change and expand upon in the center of Paris. And it really did change the city. But Wren's day to day was really about seeing those buildings in process, seeing how they were being built, how materials physically were brought to a building site, how masons directed workmen and how people were paid and how people were not paid, and how to manage a site that was really key for him.
- [14:46]
A
And I suppose it's also just this sense where that you can create a structure around the administration of producing works for a king. It's not that each time something needs to be built, you start from scratch with the personnel, with the logistics of organizing that team. You know, you get economies of scale as you have people in place to do the job.
- [15:15]
D
Absolutely. And this is the great age of state formation, which really comes from France in this period, and it comes from people like Solly and Richelieu and by extension Colbert, of course. But this is when the organization of the state really takes hold in Europe. And Charles, his post Restoration government also follows suit. And we should really be understanding Christopher Wren as an architect of the city state, he is really a civil servant. We shouldn't really be thinking of him as a courtier. I think that's a bit anachronistic. But what's key here is that there are hierarchies and they have their individual duties, they have their expertise, although that word wouldn't have been used, but they have their own sense of duty and hierarchy was really key. SIGNING OFF on DOCUMENTS Right. This great birth of modern bureaucracy really is late 17th century France and England's kind of actual Northern European approach to business. And that's what Wren would have called it. He would have called it the business of architecture. And that I think is the key to the profession in this period.
- [16:32]
A
So 350 years ago, Ren's so called warrant design for St. Paul's was approved. But the journey to that point hadn't been plain sailing.
- [16:41]
D
Had, had not. It had been rocky, to say the least. And Wren's son recounts this as a kind of a teary episode when his much loved great model was not approved. He had provided scores of drawings and other models as well too, that are extensive. None were formally approved by both the King and the Dean and Chapter, or the Commission more broadly, until 1675. That's right.
- [17:11]
A
So the first model is 1670. Why was that one rejected? And why do you think King Charles II approved it?
- [17:21]
D
Yes, it's interesting. And again, to go back to this idea that we can't think about architecture unless we think about funding. It all goes back to funding. But Brann's first design, of which we only have parts of the model that remains, and it's still in the trophy room of St. Paul's Cathedral. But essentially the design brief that he was given was to build something handsome, they said, noble and suitable to all the ends of it and to the reputation of the city and the nation. So he comes up with a basilica form, naturally, through ancient architecture, through the study of Andrea Palladio, and he retains the existing portico that Inigo Jones had constructed earlier in the 1630s. Now, retaining that long nave was really critical for the DNN chapter. That's where sermons, where public sermons were offered. But crucially, Wren did not want to build or mess with the old foundations. Just a few years before this indigo gems were literally started to fall off the body of the church and the walls which encased the old Gothic fabric were peeling away. And this was a real problem, obviously, structurally and for the congregation and for any who used the cathedral, which at that point was vast and varied. But the purpose of the first design was really to propose something to the King. But the problem was, is that ultimately it was too modest, I think, for the King. And I think when we set Rennes first design against the designs then in Rising in Paris, we understand Charles perspective on this point. It was not grand or was not stately enough and it wasn't ambitious enough. So back to the drawing board for Wren. But critically, and I think this is what the church and his contemporaries thought, is that it was an odd design, it was like anything else they had seen before, and that's really key. So he goes back to contemplate that the form, the cathedral form for a Protestant church that should be noble and suitable for the nation. But this is really the trickiest part of designing the cathedral.
- [19:49]
A
I love the fact that you can say back to the drawing board and you mean that, not metaphorically. So let's come to the second design. How would you describe it? How is it different from the first?
- [20:03]
D
Yes, it's wonderful. I think when he had the response of it's not grand enough, it's not noble enough, I think those are the words that he probably wanted to hear. His first design conformed to a design brief, to a T. That was his duty. But, you know, as the surveyor of the fabric and as surveyor also for the King, he obeyed. Now, the second design, which is later called the Greek Cross, is a very elegant design, I think, and one that Ren admired greatly. It is quite different, though. Instead of being an elongated nave, it's a centrally planned structure. But crucially, it looks to continental structure, it looks to the Roman Catholic building type. But the building itself was really not about the cathedral form, it was about the dome. The entire structure really is subordinate to the dome structure. So when you look at it in plan, you see these eight massive piers and a ring of subsidiary spaces or chapels, which looked like a Catholic plan. It looked like something Francois Mansart had designed for the Bourbon Chapel, for example, and it looked entirely un Anglican. But the dome itself, surmounted on top of this subsidiary structure, was a double shelled dome. And this really looked to those domes that he had seen in Rising in Paris. These were structurally sophisticated. They looked even beyond Paris. They certainly looked to the dome of St. Peter's right at the hearts of the Catholic Church. But this, ultimately, while it was elegant and structurally very sound and drawn beautifully drawn by Rennes assistant surveyor Edward Woodruff, to look like a French drawing. And they do. They look quite like a French drawing from the Batumon du Rain. And this was the point, it looked royal, but because it looked to the continent and looked to Catholic architecture was the fundamental problem ultimately.
- [22:14]
A
So you can imagine that the King would have liked this royal grandiose design and indeed we can go and see it today, can't we? But the clergy would feel that this isn't embodying something of a quality that they think should be present in a Protestant church.
- [22:32]
D
Yes, absolutely. So Charles did see these Greek cross plans and Ren had been in consultation with him regularly about what he was designing. And I think that to Charles, he would have seen this as a kind of architectural rivalry to his cousin, much like his father, Charles I had with Louis xiii, which is why we had Inigo Jones classical portico on the front. We can't forget these architectural rivals. So Charles II was keen and he had ordered the construction of a model on the basis of the Greek cross designs, and he ordered it specifically so that a man might stand within it, the better to consider all the proportions of the same as well within as without. And that's really crucial. Robert Hooke tells us that he stood in it and he had seen it at least a couple of times and probably more, and it was approved the next year, in 1673, Wren was knighted, all seemed well and a commission was opened. But then we lose contact with the commission and all goes a bit silent and there's issues in the background and I should say in Parliament. And this is a major reason why the. The great model is not approved.
- [23:58]
A
And if people want to experience that great model, I mean, the amazing thing is it still exists today, doesn't it?
- [24:05]
D
It does, it still exists. And it's huge. It stands on the top of a plinth, so it's almost at shoulder level. And you can see in it, you can see the artistry that was made by the carpenter to make this model. It's really extraordinary. And there still is, I believe, a little cabinet underneath, so that some very special people might still be able to access that new experience in the eyes of a 17th century person, to stand and see what that dome structure would have looked like had it been built.
- [24:36]
A
Now, how did the third design, what we call the warrant design, adjust the second design?
- [24:43]
D
Yes. So essentially, when the clergy responded to say essentially that this just wasn't Anglican enough, it wasn't cathedral enough in its form, Wren once again had to reconsider the form of London's mother church. So he takes a period of, I think of about five or six months to really rethink this. As his son describes it, he's reflecting on the cathedral form and how do I give the clergy what they want and what he says. He says I need to design something thing as to what they admire and what they're used to. And that's really complicated because he also really desperately wants a dome. And I think so does Charles ii. This is the modern architecture. This is what other monarchs are beginning to design in their respective capitals. So the warrant design. It is a funny design, but I do think it's been misunderstood within its context because at the same time when Ren had been building the great model, there was a lot of religious unrest in London. At the same time, Charles II had been receiving significant funding from his cousin. There was a measure of religious relaxation that Charles enacted, which had not passed through Parliament. However, Parliament did respond to by enacting the Test act in 1673, in which Charles II had to revoke his relaxation measures. And why is this key? Because in the background of Wren's drawing office at St. Paul's people were worried about papacy re entering government and Catholicism then coming back into the church. And this was a huge problem. We have Evelyn and Pepys constantly complaining about the rise of papacy. And so this Wren is very much aware of. And so he takes that kind of the sensitivities of the Dean and chapter. The dean who he was very close to, that's Dean William Sancroft, was in close consultation with him and probably runs some of the design aspects by him. So he needs to essentially create a modern church, but still looks enough like an Anglican church. And that's really tricky to do, but he tries as much as he can to do it through classical architectural forms.
- [27:35]
B
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- [28:09]
A
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- [29:05]
A
And then what happens next is you say something of a mystery. The cathedral starts to rise in the summer of 1675, but it only bears a slight resemblance to the warrant design. So can you talk me through how this has happened and how Wren was free to make further adjustments?
- [29:33]
D
Yes, absolutely. And I should. I might just describe briefly the warrant design. The warrant design is this. It's a series of five architectural drawings neatly and elegantly presented on office paper. And it's called the Warrant Design because the warrant the royal worn is stitched to it in a beautiful blue silk thread and it has on it silk ribbon with the seal of the Royal of the Garter on it. And this is a legal document, really it is what officially authorizes Wren to move forward with construction. What is most important about this is understanding that the church, the Dean and chapter, the Bishop of London and the King all had to agree on the design before it moved forward. And this again is about designing by committee. And this is why it takes so long. Once the warrant design had been approved, there was some relief. Contracts could be written up, people could be hired, the ground could be shaked down. And while that was all happening, Ren had already been thinking about other designs and had already been sketching things out. So he was ready. And I think this is almost like any of us, we just need the formal approval before we can officially get started on our work. But he does. And although Ren is crestfallen that he is not building the great model, I think that he understands something that he alludes to to the Dean Mullion Sancroft years earlier. And there's wonderful letter he writes to dean Sancroft in 1668 when he has already been installed for several years as the dean of St. Paul's and he says to him that, you know, he's eager to move forward with the design. And Wren essentially says to him, right now, London is full of building activity. Materials are very expensive. Just wait a few years. Go slowly. I'm not willing to do anything in haste for perpetuity you know, he understands that the architecture will last. He understands building materials in the post fire city is extremely expensive. So Wren takes his time because he knows things will get cheaper and easier. He also understands that the climate of religious turmoil in London will change, it will cool, and therefore he might have more license to build the dome that he really wants later. And that does happen. So once the warren is sealed and the building goes up, the building is for some time. It takes a lot of time to go up. It starts from the east end and it slowly goes towards the west and upward as he moves. We have to understand though that this is from 1675 until 1710 and it's across five monarchs. Five monarchs with different governments, different purses, different funding, different acts of parliament which are funding, and also with different staff members. So the design will naturally change. In fact, it's ever evolving for Wren.
- [32:54]
A
So are you saying that you think the design is being modified in response to external forces, or do you have a sense that it comes from Ren's own vision altering, or is this actually sort of practically working out problems that are arising during construction?
- [33:12]
D
I would say it was a combination of all three. And this is what I think is actually Wren's strength, is that he was adaptable and thinking constantly about the design, about design solutions. For example, when James II comes to the throne for a short time, he does loosen the reins on Rennes a bit. And so that in one sense gives him more authority, although I use the word lightly for Ren, because he does have to do as the others say, but he does have a little bit of leeway about what he is making. But these designs, you know, already by the end of the 1670s and into the 1680s, he also has to keep up with another external force, which is other architecture that is being built in France specifically. So he's keeping up his occurrent with what Louis XIV's court is building, especially with domes, with finances, and even with his colleagues coming up with theories. For example, Robert Hooke, probably around the time when he submits his warrant design, he meets with Hooke in a coffee shop and they start to talk about his mathematical solution for the Quaternary arch, which is that the opposites of that chain. And so he modifies, Hooke tells us, he modifies his module or his design. So he's constantly updating his documents, you know, he's constantly revising his ideas, all within the broad idea that he is to turn a Gothic building of Gothic proportions, or what had formerly been of Gothic proportions, into a Classical building. And we have to be reminded that, I think that is ultimately what Ren wanted, he says again, early on, even before the fire, he urges William Sancroft to go to the charge of the true Latin, that is to build with ancient Roman principles. That is what Ren cares about the most.
- [35:19]
A
Let's talk a bit more about the dome, because it's this phenomenal achievement in terms of engineering. What makes it unique?
- [35:28]
D
Gosh, it's a very complicated structure. It is very complicated and it is entirely unique, principally because of this triple dome structure. And though it weighs some 65,000 tons, which sounds like a lot to us, it actually is very light. And the way this design is conceived is almost like Russian dolls, one layer of material inserted into another. So the first structure that we have is the inner dome, the one that you can see from inside the cathedral. What we see with that wonderful painting on the interior, which is made of brick and it is relatively shallow on the inside, but just outside of that is a hidden structural cone which is also made of brick, and it is only just a foot and a half thick. And that is reinforced by a collar of wrought iron chain around it for structural supports. And then from the outside, what we see from the exterior of the building is this majestic lead clad timber dome. So it is actually a wooden dome seen from the outside. Now, he only added some of these structural pieces, like the wrought iron chain in 1702. So that's, you know, well, after beginning the dome at the turn of the 1690s, construction had already well advanced up to the drum of the dome. So even when construction was advancing, he was still, still at the drawing table and still rethinking the structure of the dome. So we have to think everything for Wren is not finalized until mortar is set. The drawings are constantly running off the table to the construction site, to the masons who are putting the stone up, and I should say stone, brick and timber in terms of the lantern. But what I think is so clever about this dome is that structurally, you know, the outer dome is essentially a veneer. But structurally, what supports that stone lantern at the top is in fact, a very complicated series of mechanisms that Wren figured out and made it look effortless. And that's the genius, isn't it? It's when something is very complicated, but you make it look simple. And that is, I think, why the dome is so unique and that it did evolve over three decades, essentially.
- [38:17]
B
Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because you chose it well. Choose Progressives Name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget. So you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try it@progressive.com and now some legal info. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states. On Deck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps, Ondeck's loans up to $250,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trust pilot reviews, Ondeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes@ondeck.com depending on certain loan attributes. Your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank.
- [39:16]
D
Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
- [39:34]
A
You alluded earlier to some of the European developments that he's keeping his ear to the ground about. And and it's altering over time. But I think it would be fair to say that St. Paul's Cathedral and its dome is something new. So could we call it English Baroque? How does it differ from its counterparts, particularly I suppose, its Roman Catholic counterparts?
- [39:59]
D
I often think about nomenclature for buildings. I think about what the architect would have called it or if they would have agreed actually with the terminology. Ultimately, is St. Paul's about a counter to the Catholic Church? And it depends on who you speak to, of course. I think generally, yes, in that sense it is Baroque. I think stylistically and formally St. Paul's really is not the way we think about the Baroque, certainly the Baroque of Italy. And I think that Rennes would not have liked to be associated with the Baroque of Italy because he thinks that it is a kind of a degenerated form. It's where classical forms go to die in the work of Borromini, for example. But Rennes, I think his architecture really, it's about antiquity and it's about those ancient classical forms which are mathematically correct. It is about statics and structure and how those conceal or conform to mathematical ideas. That's what it is about. And I think, as I said before, I think he's constantly thinking about Paris. And throughout the 1680s and 90s he is receiving through diplomatic channels, prince of the most up to date of the most recent architecture. He's given, for example, prints of the Hotel de Ronvali being designed by Jules Rodron Melsart in Paris. And this is really critical. He is. We stay up to date now with architecture, with news. So is Rennes. And by that, or I should say, because of that, I think we have to think of St. Paul's as being exceedingly modern for a 17th and early 18th century building.
- [41:49]
A
So he's looking to things like the Hotel des Invalides. He's looking to St. Peter's Basilica in Rome perhaps. But the dome feels like it's more akin to mosques in the Ottoman Empire than anything we would associate with English cathedrals that have preceded it. To what extent was Wren also drawing upon Islamic architecture?
- [42:13]
D
It's a great question and one that has come up recently, especially with terminology that Ren uses in his tracts in talking about Gothic architecture and the word Saracen and what that meant to Wren versus what it means to us now. And he does recognize that Saracen architecture or Gothic architecture did come from the east, it did not move into Europe. And it was essentially a kind of architecture built by people who were moving, who were using smaller materials rather than large masonry, like the Romans. But he understood that, and I think his contemporaries did as well, that Gothic architecture was a corruption of ancient architecture and that ancient architecture was mathematically sound. Now, yes, Rennes did know about some of the architecture of the Ottoman Empire. For example, this was principally through travelers accounts and some prints as well, that would have ultimately come into the Office of Works, Turenne's home there, the work of Jean Chardon or Guillaume Joseph Grelot, who was a traveler funded by Louis XIV to go to Constantinople. But he publishes a series of fantastic prints of Constantinople, including one interior of the Hagia Sophia. And yes, it does have stylistic resemblances to Wren's dome, especially of these massive eight piers and even of St. Stephen Walbrook. However, St. Stephen Walbrook, the dome there, had already been completed a year before these prints came off the press in Paris. And Wren's dome design of 1675 for the warrant, which does have eight equal sided arches supporting the coved dome under the cupola, that was completed in 1675. So we can't really say that these sources match up chronologically at all. How Wren comes to these solutions is through the geometry of circles, which Wren was an expert at. He was an expert of quadrant architecture, of the architecture of circles, of famously of the cycloid. But he understands that if you increase the diameter or radius of a circle, that you expand the whole circumference of a circle, for which you would need more peers to support A dome above. So I think, I'm sorry to say, I know it's very interesting, but I think that Wren's solution to architecture is fundamentally mathematics and based on proportion rather than looking at Eastern architecture.
- [45:01]
A
We've been talking a lot about the dome of St. Paul's but it actually still hadn't emerged after 22 years of construction. Why did it take so long?
- [45:11]
D
Yeah, that is very true. Why did the dome take so long when the body of the church actually was relatively quick to be constructed? And I think that's for several reasons. First, and this comes with experience only, as we know, is that the dome was essentially an experiment. We have to remember that before St. Stephen Walbrook, before St. Paul's that no structural dome had been built in England before this point. So it was, in a way, it was an experimental form of architecture. And Wren understood that it was an invention, an ever evolving invention, so that needed time to settle, but also physically, the building needs time to settle, and he understood that. He's building partially, especially the dome structure in the center on the old foundations. So that was tricky. London soil, of course, isn't very solid. It's still quite porous around St. Paul's he understood that. But to build the dome, he needed it to be completely settled. He needed the drum of the dome to be set, and that takes time, and he progressed slowly also. At the same time, though, he wanted to ensure that he was making the correct design decision. As I said before, Wren had written to Sancroft saying, I'm not willing to make a decision for eternity. I'm not going to make a hasty decision. I'm going to take my time.
- [46:42]
A
Did he see it completed?
- [46:44]
D
He did ultimately see it completed, and I think what's interesting is he did see it complete with his second son, or first surviving son, Christopher Jr, and that's at the end of the first decade of the 18th century. And he was pushed to complete it. His salary had been withheld for a time. He wouldn't be paid until he finished, which is a good threat. But we have to remember that he was receiving salaries from other sources at the time. So when he saw it completed, the lantern being the final touch, he did watch that ceremony. So he was 79 when he sends his son, Christopher Jr, who he had hoped, I think at that point, to follow in his footsteps in architecture, had sent him up to finish the cathedral. That was a major point for him. And by that point, I think Ren had effectively retired. It wasn't that long after that ceremony when Wren effectively did retire to Hampton Court.
- [47:47]
A
And given that he was relatively elderly man in early 18th century terms, at least by the time that it was completed, how closely should we imagine him supervising the construction of St. Paul's over those many decades?
- [48:02]
D
Such an interesting point. And I do think about ageism, I think we could call it, and we often think about these figures as being the same age their whole life. But he was an elderly man even in the 1690s and early 18th century, and he does recognize his mortality. In 1698, he writes a wonderful letter to his son, who was then traveling the continent, and he essentially says, I'm not getting any younger. When are you going to come back from studying the business of architecture in France to come help me? I need help. And at that point, he had been busy at Windsor, Greenwich and St Paul's and Westminster Abbey. He had a lot of work on his plate, yet still he would consistently go to the construction site, to the building site, to look after masons, consult with masons and carpenters and the master craftsmen to ensure that. That there was order on the building site. And that, again, is a lesson that he took from the Battlement Doi from Paris, where he observes bureaucracy and state formation on site. And I think for Rennes, those standards is what he continues throughout his entire life. And I think that's what he saw his principal duty as the surveyor of the Royal Works to be. He had a duty to ensure that buildings were built according to a budget, primarily according to a time scale, and that there was a hierarchy in place. And Wren was very unflappable in that sense. He was very reliable. One of my favorite accounts is of a gentleman, Roger north, who's a musician, barrister, an intellectual figure in the late 17th century century, very interested and engaged in the construction of St. Paul's Cathedral, and knows that Wren is on site on Saturdays. And there's an account he gives where he essentially follows Christopher Wren around, asking questions, and how did you come up with this idea? And where are you getting this stone from? And how long does it take to cut this? Essentially taking notes on site behind Sir Christopher. But that just tells us that he is, in a way, indefatigable and he is reliable. He's still in his 70s and 80s, attending to business on site.
- [50:30]
A
Just a couple more questions, then. I mentioned the resurgum stone. Can you tell me a bit more about that? And particularly I'm interested in whether you think Wren consciously saw St. Paul's as a Phoenix rising from the ashes.
- [50:44]
D
Yes, it is an interesting symbol of London The Phoenix. And I think it's one certainly that the public understood. There's a wonderful fable of Ren when he is setting out the dome, that he pulled a piece of stone, and on that piece of stone on the reverse, it said resurgum. On it was an old headstone there on site. Whether or not that's true, that account comes from the parentalia, from his son and grandson. You know, in one sense, it's very poetic, and I think that Wren probably saw it as poetic. But I think more importantly for Wren, I think this was more of an intellectual exercise in some capacities for Wren. But the public certainly saw it as the phoenix. And there were poems that were penned, writing about the phoenix rising from the ashes as early as the 1680s and through the 18th century and even in the 19th century. One of my favorite ones was written in 1681 on the present state of London. And one of the lines from the poem goes, now once again rebuilt and revived by the extracted phoenix, like whose splendor shows she triumphs over the ruins of her foes. And then later, in 1709, just a year before the building is officially finished, there is a wonderful long poem published called the Phoenix Paulina. And James writes, beauty from ashes does refine appear. A fresh and ready instance does appear. Behold, a true unfeigned phoenix here abundant, fairer than the mother bird. And that goes on for pages and pages about how involved the public was in this cathedral for centuries, actually since the late 16th century and early 17th century, in which it was the public urging the king to restore their mother church, and here, very poetically, in the early 18th century, thanking the consecutive monarchs for their support of rebuilding the church?
- [52:56]
A
Could we end then by summarizing the scale of Rennes achievement architecturally in terms of engineering and ingenuity, its beauty, its cultural inspirations, and, I suppose, its emotional impact.
- [53:10]
D
I think what's most exceptional about the building, St. Paul's and Wren's reputation as of England's great architect, was his commitment to the building. But I think being interested in the people or those who built the cathedral was how many hands were involved on site. And so even in 1697, when Evelyn, John Evelyn, that is, wrote a letter to Wren, he expressed his gratitude and his awe of what Ren had been doing. And he wrote saying that Ren had designed already by this point, the greatest city in the universe, which you, Ren, have built and beautify and are still improving. And the most important bit here is, he said, all of the buildings you have designed are trophies of your skill. And industry conducted with that success, that if the whole art of building were entirely lost, it might be recovered and found again in St. Paul's and I think that is key because the building not only is a monument to the Anglican Church, a monument to Ren's achievements, but it's the most interesting building to study in terms of the art of architecture and how architecture was achieved, how masons worked and carpenters worked, and how buildings were practically and theoretically built in the period. And it still is the cornerstone of architectural studies. For that reason, it is infinitely a lesson of a school of architecture that really the whole history, I think, of British architecture is built upon.
- [54:58]
A
Well, thank you so much, Dr. Elizabeth, for introducing us to this extraordinary building and taking us through its rebirth under Sir Christopher Wren.
- [55:11]
D
Thank you, thank you, Professor Lipsco, thank.
- [55:15]
A
You for listening to this episode of Not Just the Tudors from History Hit. Thank you also to my researcher Max Wintool, my producer Rob Weinberg, and to Amy Haddo, who edited this episode. We are always eager to hear from you, including receiving your brilliant ideas for subjects we can cover. So do drop us a line@notjusthetorshistoryhit.com and I look forward to joining you again for another episode. Next time on Not Just the Tutors from History. Hit.
- [55:51]
B
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D
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D
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