Podcast Summary: “The Rise of St Paul’s Cathedral”

Podcast: Not Just the Tudors (History Hit)
Host: Professor Suzannah Lipscomb
Guest: Dr. Elizabeth Deans, Architectural Historian
Date: November 10, 2025
Episode Focus: The destruction and rebirth of St. Paul's Cathedral—its decline, destruction in the Great Fire of London, Christopher Wren’s unlikely journey to master architect, and how political, religious, and architectural forces shaped one of London’s most iconic landmarks.

Main Theme

This episode explores the tumultuous story behind St. Paul’s Cathedral. Professor Suzannah Lipscomb is joined by Dr. Elizabeth Deans to unravel how the Great Fire of London (1666) ended centuries of slow decline for Old St. Paul's, and how Christopher Wren—mathematician, scientist, and reluctant architect—created a new symbol of resilience and innovation. The episode details Wren’s architectural philosophy, the dizzying political and religious dynamics of Restoration England, and why St. Paul’s remains an enduring masterpiece.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Old St Paul’s: Decline and Catastrophe

• State of Decline: By the late 16th century, St. Paul’s had fallen into dangerous disrepair, with stones falling from the structure (06:38).
• Repeated Neglect: Despite royal commissions and designs (notably by Inigo Jones), lack of leadership and above all funding stalled restoration for decades:
  • “There was just simply no money… so effectively, when James I died in 1625, there just weren’t funds to see those first round of designs… through.” — Dr. Deans (08:18)
• Great Fire of London (1666):
  • Catastrophic loss witnessed in vivid detail—molten lead poured “like a river,” watched by diarist John Evelyn. The cathedral—already in ruin—was utterly destroyed. (01:40–06:12)

2. Christopher Wren’s Unlikely Rise

• Not Originally an Architect: Wren was a mathematician and scientist, entering architecture in the early Restoration period due to personal connections and an intellectual curiosity about applying mathematical principles to building. (10:09)
• French Influence: Wren’s visit to Paris in 1665 was pivotal. He observed the Louvre being built, learning not just style but crucial lessons in architectural management and state-led organization. (11:53–14:46)
  • “He calls it a school of architecture, seeing the key figures—architects, masons, carpenters—working in concert at the building site.” — Dr. Deans (13:05)
• Emergence as Civil Servant Architect:
  • Wren’s work was shaped by France’s bureaucratic innovations. “We should really be understanding Christopher Wren as an architect of the city state… a civil servant.” (15:15)

3. The Design Struggle: From Drawing Board to Warrant

• First Design (1670):
  • A traditional basilica plan that attempted to retain Inigo Jones’ portico and foundations—ultimately “too modest, not stately enough” for the king and structurally unsound due to the failing foundations. (17:20)
• Second Design: The Great Model / Greek Cross Plan
  • Centralized plan with a grand dome—admired by Charles II, but it “looked entirely un-Anglican,” alarmed the clergy due to its resemblance to Catholic architecture. (20:02–22:32)
  • “The building itself was really not about the cathedral form—it was about the dome.” — Dr. Deans (20:18)
• Third / Warrant Design (1675):
  • A hybrid, compromising form—satisfying expectations of an Anglican cathedral while allowing (just) enough grandeur for king and architect. (24:36–27:34)
  • Religious tensions (Test Act, anti-Catholic sentiment) forced Wren to moderate his artistic ambitions.
• Building by Committee:
  • Approval required the agreement of the King, Bishop, and Dean & Chapter—a process “about designing by committee,” leading to slow progress and continual revisions. (29:33)

4. Construction: Innovation in Action

• Ever-Evolving Design:
  • Wren made continual adjustments in response to political changes, technical challenges, funding, and rival continental architecture. (32:53–33:11)
  • “He was adaptable, thinking constantly about design solutions... constantly updating his documents, revising his ideas.” (33:11)
  • Consultation with fellow scientific minds like Robert Hooke drove technical innovations, especially regarding the dome. (33:11)
• Timeless Lesson in Project Management:
  • “[Wren] says… I’m not willing to do anything in haste for perpetuity… architecture will last.” (29:33)

5. The Dome: Engineering Genius

• Triple Dome Structure (35:27)
  • Three nested domes:
    1. Inner brick dome (visible from inside)
    2. Concealed brick cone (structural strength, reinforced with iron chain)
    3. Timber outer dome (visible from outside, covered with lead)
  • “Structurally, the outer dome is essentially a veneer… what supports that stone lantern is… a very complicated series of mechanisms that Wren figured out and made it look effortless.” — Dr. Deans (35:27)
• Slow Process:
  • The dome took 22 years to complete—due to experimental engineering, need for settling, and careful decision-making. (45:00–45:10)

6. Style, Symbolism, and Influence

• Is it Baroque?
  • The design is “exceedingly modern” for its time, but Wren sought mathematical purity, drawing inspiration from Paris more than Italy or the “degenerate” Baroque of Borromini. (39:58)
• Islamic Inspiration?
  • Though there are geometric similarities between the dome and Ottoman mosques, Dr. Deans argues Wren’s solutions were fundamentally mathematical, not based on Eastern sources. (42:12)
• The Phoenix Metaphor (50:30):
  • “Resurgam” (I shall rise again) became a public symbol, poems likened St. Paul’s to a phoenix after the fire. Wren, while seeing some poetry in it, was more practical—but the city saw the cathedral as a rebirth. (50:44)
  • Favourite poem line: “Now once again rebuilt and revived by the extracted phoenix, like whose splendor shows she triumphs over the ruins of her foes.” (51:55)

7. Wren’s Dedication and Legacy

• Personal Supervision:
  • Wren led and regularly visited the construction well into his 70s and 80s, attentive to detail and the hierarchy of the work site, embodying “indefatigable” reliability (48:02).
  • Anecdote: Barrister Roger North would follow Wren around site, peppering him with questions—a testament to Wren’s visibility and hands-on approach. (49:36)
• Completion and Impact:
  • Wren saw the cathedral’s completion in old age, with his son overseeing the final touches. Juggling numerous projects (Windsor, Greenwich, Westminster Abbey), Wren’s commitment to St. Paul’s was “exceptional.” (47:46–48:02, 53:10)
  • John Evelyn wrote: “If the whole art of building were entirely lost, it might be recovered and found again in St. Paul’s.” (53:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the challenge of designing by committee:
  “The church, the Dean and chapter, the Bishop of London and the King all had to agree on the design before it moved forward… and this is why it takes so long.” — Dr. Deans (29:33)

• On Wren’s adaptable genius:
  “Everything for Wren is not finalized until mortar is set. The drawings are constantly running off the table to the construction site…” — Dr. Deans (37:14)

• On public perception:
  “There were poems penned, writing about the phoenix rising from the ashes as early as the 1680s… the public certainly saw it as the phoenix.” — Dr. Deans (50:44)

• On architectural significance:
  “If the whole art of building were entirely lost, it might be recovered and found again in St. Paul’s.” — John Evelyn (53:26)

• On symbolism and poetry:
  “Beauty from ashes does refine appear. A fresh and ready instance does appear. Behold, a true unfeigned phoenix here abundant, fairer than the mother bird.” — James, "Phoenix Paulina" (51:55)

Key Timestamps

• 01:40 — Dramatic account of the Great Fire destroying Old St Paul’s
• 06:38 — Longstanding neglect and damage in the century before the fire
• 10:09 — Christopher Wren’s unusual path to architecture
• 11:53–14:46 — Wren’s formative visit to Paris; lessons from French building practice
• 17:20 — Reasons for rejection of first design
• 20:02 — The radical “Great Model” or Greek Cross Plan and its Catholic connotations
• 24:36–27:34 — Religious, political tensions and the compromise design
• 29:33 — Approval and the pains of “designing by committee”
• 33:11 — Constant experimentation and technical dialogues (with Robert Hooke)
• 35:27 — The marvel of the triple-dome
• 39:58 — English Baroque and international inspirations
• 42:12 — Mathematics and architectural geometry vs. Islamic architectural influence
• 45:00 — Technical and practical delays in dome construction
• 47:46 — Wren observes the cathedral’s official completion
• 49:36 — Roger North’s account of following Wren on-site
• 50:44 — The “Resurgam” stone and phoenix metaphor
• 53:10–54:58 — The scale and lasting impact of Wren’s achievement
• 53:26 — John Evelyn’s iconic remark on St. Paul’s as the repository of architectural knowledge

Conclusion

From tragedy and neglect to triumph and timelessness, the rise of St. Paul’s Cathedral is a story of resilience—embodied both by the tenacity of Christopher Wren and the resolve of London itself. Blending detailed scholarship and accessible conversation, the episode offers new appreciation for the innovative design, painstaking execution, and enduring symbolism of this historic building. For historians, architects, and the curious alike, these insights confirm St. Paul’s as not just a monument, but a living testament to the art and business of building.