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- [00:05]
A
Welcome to Notes from the Edge, where we have the conversations we should have been having all along. We talk about the things that we're not talking about. I'm your host, Lisa Lacey, writer, trauma educator, executive advisor, and author of the upcoming memoir, Notes from a Certified Mad Woman. Welcome to the Edge. Hey. Hey, my friends. Welcome back to another show of Notes from the Edge. I'm your host, Lisa Lacey, and this is the place we have the conversations we should have been having all along. And here we're going to be talking about the things that you're not talking about, but should be, but we'll talk about them for you. And today's guest is Dave Kopani. And Dave grew up in a very interesting way that I can relate to. You know, friends, every parent wants to believe that their child is the exception, that they will recognize danger, that they will make the right decisions, that a parent's love, that good grades, a stable home is going to keep your children safe. But drugs are accessible, more potent now, and aggressively marketed than more parents realize. And sometimes, by the time a family knows there is a problem, the problem may be bigger and way above your pay grade. So our guest today has an interesting bio. He's an author, educator, private investigator, founder, and CEO of ASAP Community, an organization dedicated to equipping parents with practical strategies to prevent and respond to adolescent substance use. Now, Dave grew up in a household deeply affected by addiction and experienced drug exposure at an extraordinarily young age. Now, his professional career has spanned 30 years working with adolescents, young adults, as well as their families. And throughout that career, he has served as a school counselor, teacher, probation officer, law enforcement officer, gang investigator, as well as private investigator specializing in teen addiction and intervention. He is the author of the book Tip of the Spear, how to educate, supervise, and monitor your child in a world of increasing drug abuse and addiction. And his work is focused on helping new parents out there handle this very big problem. Dave, welcome to Notes from the Edge. My friend. How are you today?
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B
I'm good, Lisa. How are you? Thank you for that great introduction.
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A
You're very welcome. That was you? I always tell people, they're always like, you do. Such amazing interest. I'm like, that was you.
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B
Well, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
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A
Well, good. I'm so glad you're here because this is such an important topic to even me personally, because if my folks had been on it and aware, I could have saved myself 20 years of drowning in a bottle. And you were exposed to drugs before you were even old. Enough to understand what they were or what was happening. How did, how did that affect the work that you do today? Especially because you've had careers in so many different things. What was kind of the origin point where you went this, this is where my focus needs to be?
- [03:54]
B
Well, I, I did. I grew up in an addicted household. My father was an alcoholic. My, it affected the family and he, you know, he didn't drink every day, but you never knew if that was the day when you came home from school. Was he going to be there. He disappeared for long lengths of time and then he would disappear and then he would disappear. And when he was around, he was fantastic, he was brilliant, he was a writer, he was a painter, he was a brilliant attorney. And you didn't know if that's the person you were getting when you came home from school or you were going to come home to. The brooding, angry person dealing with, with trauma that happened 25 years ago. Right. And there was violence and that plays a part in. It affects the whole family. It's just not a one person. When I hear that it's a victimless crime substance, there's no such thing. It affects everybody. And so growing up in that kind of atmosphere, you learn very quick, quickly to have a sixth sense about the room, right? You walk in and you read the room really quickly to see what's hap. What, what, what are you walking into. And I began my career out in Santa Barbara, California at the juvenile detention center. I lied, I said this is what I wanted to do, work with high risk kids and that I was in college and I almost had my degree and, and I really just wanted a stable job. They hired me and the first day I realized this is, I can do this, I like doing this. I, I can have an effect on, on kids. And I've done it ever since. That was in 1991.
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A
Wow.
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B
So it, my life prepared me well for, for dealing with families and working with families who are going through some of the same things that I went through, through when I was a kid. You know, I know how it is being a child living in that house. But I also know what it's like to lose a sibling to an overdose, to lose. My sister in law died from a heroin overdose. I lost my brother. It's, you know, you learn how to take these things and help other people. And when you say that, you know what I'm talking about with your past. This drug abuse affects so many people, so many families and we keep it silent. We don't want anybody to know there's still shame involved. There's still guilt.
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A
I know there's still a stigma of shame shrouded around it.
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B
Yes, there is. And, you know, I try to tell parents that's what the drugs want. They want you to keep it quiet. They don't want you to change. And I keep telling family, it's not about you against your child. You're not going to shame your child. It's about you and your child against the effects of the drugs that they are doing.
- [06:58]
A
Oh, I love that.
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B
My brother passed away. He died in a basement apartment of which I was never invited to, nor I ever visited. And he died just like the drugs wanted. They had him by to themselves. And that's. That's the cruel part of this, you know, it's. It's so hard to get involved. We don't want to admit we. We think. I've had so many families, when I pull up, say, boy, I hope my neighbors don't see. Don't see you coming in. But what they don't know is, well, when I leave your house, I'm going to the house one block over, and then I'm going to another house a block over. This is rampant. I don't care what creed, religion. I don't care your politics. I don't care how much money you have. I've been in all. All the. All the homes, and it is. There's no escaping. There's no escaping this. And nobody's coming to our rescue, parents. Nobody's going to knock on your door, say, is your kid okay?
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, Eric Brockovich had a great line. She said, superman's not coming. This is on us. This is on you. And as soon as parents realize that, how. And I teach them how to. How to reach out and get support. Get support from your partner. Very important. Get support from the family. Get support from school, resources. Once they make that step, parents, a light bulb goes up now, they've taken charge of the problem. They might not know how to fix it yet.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But they're working toward it. They're not ignoring it. They're not hoping it goes away. These are all the things that addiction wants you to do. Yeah.
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A
You can't run it on hope. You can't run it on hope. And what I love about what you said is get support, please. Shame wants us isolated. It wants us going through this alone. And. And you're right that I imagine the parents probably feel such a weight lifted when they finally take that initial first step to reach out for Some additional help and resources. Right?
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B
It definitely. And the parents know what's coming. If they start confronting this, they're going to have an argument. They might have a fight, the child might leave. It's going to create chaos because you're rocking the boat. You're rocking the boat. You need to go through that. And that's not your child talking to you. That's the addiction. That's the drugs talking to you. My mom, she held our house together, right? She's the matriarch. She goes to work, pays the bills. My dad was going through all these things. She needed help. She went to Al Anon to get help from, you know, supportive families. My dad found out about it, he packed his bags, and we didn't see him for a month. He let us know very distinctly. You are not to seek help. You are not to tell your friends, your family, your neighbors, therapists. We are. This does not leave the house.
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A
And shame grows in secrecy.
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B
Yes. And you got to step out of that. You got to face it, confront it, and deal with it.
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A
We are all affected by this epidemic. We're all touched by it in some way, shape or form. And I think if we really, really absorb that, that it's. It's not just you, it's not just me, it's all of us. It's it together. Well, you have said that the war on drugs failed, obviously, because look at what we're facing right now. After working as a counselor, educator, probation officer, gang investigator, and private investigator, where do you believe that approach went wrong?
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B
Well, 1971, 7,000 people died from drugs. And Richard Nixon thought, we can't have this. We need to fight this. And so the war on drugs began. So he created the Drug Enforcement Agency, right, to deal with this. He said we were going to stop the supply of drugs coming into this country. We were going to punish those who use drugs. We were going to build treatment centers, all very reactive actions. Now, what he did not say is we are going to prevent addiction. So we were going to fight addiction. So a lot of money, over a trillion dollars thus far, $50 billion a year has gone to fight drug addiction in a way of building more prisons so we can lock up people who are addicted. We have a drug enforcement agency who is, you know, arresting people and putting people in jail. We have treatment centers who deal with people who are already addicted. Since then, when 7,000 people we thought was too high a number, we've lost over a million people to drug abuse. 1.25 million since then. It's Obviously not working. I, I talk about it in my book where I had the phone numbers of my partners, dea, atf, FBI, lawyers, treatment centers, counselors, mentors, school staff. My phone was filled with people dealing with the substance abuse problem. I was working three or four cases, drug cases at the time, when I got the phone call that my brother had died. So I'm sitting at my desk thinking, if I can't help my own brother, what's going on here? Unfortunately, it's become a money making entity that is not working, that we keep throwing money at, throwing policies, legislation, enforcement. That does not work interest. Really quickly, I think a story that will, will help. I was working in the, the jail as a gang investigator and there was a cartel member who was on his way to Statesville. He's going to do 10 years for drug trafficking. I brought him into my office and we were talking and I said, do you understand how much harm you've done to this country? How many people have died? And he said, dave, you don't understand. He said, I'm a farmer. The cartels came in and took over my town and made me work for them. And if I didn't work for them, they would kill my family. He says, but I'm only here because of you. If you stop wanting drugs, they will stop sending drugs. It's very simple. Says, but you got to stop wanting it. We have not stopped wanting it. We have not focused on prevention.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And that is the problem.
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A
Wow.
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B
You know, he was right. He was absolutely right. He was much of, of a victim of drugs as I was. And so, you know, there's a lot of blame to be cast here, but we need to see the air of our ways and we need again to see the room. What has not worked. No legislation, no policies, no enforcement has worked thus far. And there's a reason for that.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. What a profound statement. We got to stop wanting it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Supply and demand. If there's no demand, there's no reason.
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B
And we do a very poor job of teaching our kids the effects of, of drugs. You know, my, my kids were in high school. They spent to drive a car, 50 hours in the classroom, 30 hours driving, 10 hours at night, six hours with the, with a driving instructor. They had to pass a written test, they had to pass a driving test. And, and only then do we let them have access to something that can be very harmful to them and very harmful to the community. Yeah, we don't do any of that with drugs. We lost 45,000 people last year to Car accidents. We lost twice that many to drugs. So, you know, did Nancy Reagan just say. No, there's no just about it. This is hard.
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A
Yeah.
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B
The dare coming into the classroom and telling kids, hey, drugs are illegal, you shouldn't do them, and let's make some posters and put them up in the hallway. It's not enough. Yeah, it's not enough. And, you know, we have to understand that. It's. It's the old saying, pound of prevention or what? An ounce of prevention is a pound of cure, Right? Yeah, it's absolutely true when it comes to drug education and prevention.
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A
Well, and I loved what you said, Superman's not coming for us. Right. It's up to us. And, and Dave, where does it start? Where does it start?
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B
Well, I'll tell you. It starts with the parents. The kids aren't going to listen to me. The parents. You know, I've known this for years, but, you know, recently the National Institute of Health came out and said, know the parent is the person that can have the most impact on their child for anything. Education, employment, emotional stability and drugs and drug, Drug use. We can. Parents can impact them. But here's the, here's the problem. One reason I wrote the book is the CDC did a, did a poll and found that 90% of the parents in this country feel that drugs are harmful for their children. Sounds about right. Right.
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A
Okay.
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B
However, 77 of children in this country do not think that drugs are harmful. So where's the, where's the communication gap is huge.
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A
And I talked because the communication's not happening, is it?
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B
It's not happening.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And not only that, but the kids. Not only isn't the communication happening, but kids are. Get. Are being communicated to, but by people that. Influencers, marketers, legal marijuana industry. They're being dictated to, marketed to by somebody that does not care about their health, does not care about their safety, does not care about their future. It cares about making money off them.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so parents cannot leave it up to somebody else to communicate the facts and the consequences and the repercussions of what this country is going through. We need to take that on and teach our kids ourselves with real facts. And there is, there, There is a wave of misinformation and disinformation out there because there's so much money to be made in the drug business, legal and illegal. Parents need to understand. We. And it's, it's, it's, you know, Johan.
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A
Family. It's a family issue. It's a family issue. You know, part of My recovery, what I did on my own was begin to educate my own daughter. I only have one. My own daughter. On the biological effects of alcohol. The scientific effects of alcohol. What happens if she drinks before a certain age? What happens to her brain? What happens to her body? So. So in addition to her seeing me, I had her just long enough before she was out of the house, while I was in recovery to teach her these things. She hadn't touched the stuff. She didn't touch the stuff. Yeah.
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B
Lisa, you are so right. I'm such a big proponent of young people in this country, and I know that it seems almost a rite of passage for the older generation to disrespect the younger generation. I hear it all the time. Those kids, right? And, you know, my generation is funny. I hear them say, these kids today, they're egomaniacs. They're narcissists. They only think of themselves. Which is really rich coming from the baby boom. Our parents called us the me generation, right? So it's very rich coming, coming from, you know, saying, putting that on our kids. But one thing, our kids are, are very smart. As long as they get good information. They're getting so much bad information. They're taking that bad information, and it's harming them for years to come. And emotionally, family wise, employment wise, education wise, our kids are smart.
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A
They're very smart.
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B
They are smart.
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A
Right now, they are being bombarded with information of all kinds, and it's coming at them from all angles. Boy, like, all angles.
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B
Yeah, all angles. And parents have. Have to realize the United States is the most addicted country in the world. By far. By far. And a lot of that is because of family connection. But it also is. We have to understand that the kids are being bombarded by strangers, Information from strangers. They can get anything they want on the Internet. I have kids sitting in class. They start feeling anxious and they order. Get on Snapchat and they order weed and have it delivered to the parking lot in 10 minutes, right? Or, you know, they go on Internet and find a, A, A clothing company that advertises clothing. So, kids, this is so you can get high in class without the teacher knowing. You can get high at school, at home, without the teacher knowing. You know, hoodies where you can hide ins and, and, and the, the drawstring is the actual straw to the vape. So you can get high sitting in class. We're marketing this to kids.
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A
Okay, Dave, I don't want to. I don't want to gloss over that. Parents out there listening. Did you hear What Dave just said. Dave, I want you to repeat those two, just those two instances. This is what is happening for your children. This is how attainable this stuff is for them. Say it again, Dave. You know one kid that what they
- [21:42]
B
can get on their phone, get on Snapchat and call what open market drug shops around town, find out who's got weed or who's got heroin, whatever they want, Adderall, maybe they're tired, they need something to get them through the day. They can get on their phone, order it and it can be delivered to the school parking lot in 10 minutes. I've had it happen. They have clothing that they advertise as get high in class without the teacher knowing.
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A
So it's happening literally right underneath our noses.
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B
Yeah, right underneath our noses. And parents have to understand that. And parents have to understand, you know, the legal marijuana industry. I'm not, I'm not against the, you know, the legal marijuana industry. Don't, I don't care if you're old enough and you got your life together, you do whatever you want to do as long as the research that, that you've read is true, the data that you've read is true, that our government is actually trying to give us information that is, makes us healthy, less harmful.
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A
Make a conscious, educated decision and you
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B
can make decision as an adult. You got your life together, your brain is fully developed. You're 25. If you're a boy, you're 25 or over. If you're a girl, 21, 22 and over and you want to make that decision, go ahead. But our kids, you know, my kids would walk by on their way to school, they'd walk by a dispensary and the sign on this dispensary, big happy smiley face, would say come on in and say hi, H I G H, right. Or a friend with weed is a friend indeed as an adult. Okay, that's clever, that's funny. But what's that doing to a 12 year old old? What are they, what are they taking from that? And now they see packages of marijuana, legal marijuana. That's a cartoon character or bright colors. Who are they marketing to? Well, I'll give you a hint. Who's marketing to them? The three major investors in the legal marijuana industry in this country are the tobacco industry, the pharmaceutical industry and the alcohol industry. Now they're not running on a good track record of being, looking out for our health or happiness. Their, their track record is lying and manipulating marketing to kids for dollars, for money. And, and to think that they're going to change their ways. And, and, and, and now start marketing in that form to kids for marijuana, I think is far fetched.
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A
It is far fetched. It is. Well, okay, here's the challenge. Adolescence comes with secrecy. It's when our kids are starting to develop their autonomy and they've got hormonal mood changes and they want their independence. So how can parents distinguish, this is important, important detail, ordinary teenage behavior from maybe some warning signs of some early substance abuse and, or addiction?
- [25:01]
B
Great question. Because it is hard. This is a hard question. Right. You're dealing with teenage angst. Right. Where the emotions are. You know, the kids are, got a lot of things going on in their life. But I'll tell you the. Say, for instance, your child, There's a difference between your child staying up late during the week and maybe sleeping in on weekends. There's a difference between that and your child being constantly fatigued, constantly going up and sleeping. It could be a sign of depression. It could be a sign of substance abuse. Either way, it's something that a parent needs to look at and say, something's not right here. Right. And it's, it could be subtle, but you got to look for these things. And like I said, a parent knows their child better than anybody. That's why we can have such an impact on them.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And, you know, another thing is the mood fluctuations of a teenager. They can change very quickly.
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A
Yeah, they can.
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B
However, if it goes from sadness to depression and, and isolation and feeling very alone, if you're taught, you know, or it goes to not just angry, but violence. Big, big difference there. That's a, that's a sign. There's either substance abuse or mental health issues. And I say those two because they're so connected, Lisa. They are so connected. Another one is hygiene. Kids have a hard time keeping the room clean. They got dirty, you know, dirty clothes on the floor, that kind of thing. Maybe the bed isn't made, but if you walk into their room and their clothes everywhere and the drop, the drapes are drawn and there's food in there, and your child isn't bathing like they were. They're, they're wearing a lot of perfume, a lot of cologne to hide their odor. That's a big sign, you know, so they're. But what I tell, I, I tell parents, I said, moms, especially moms, dads don't have this superpower, by the way. We don't. Moms have the intuition, the empathy to look and see what their child's doing. And if, as A mom. I would tell you if you think your child is doing drugs or there's a mental health issue going on that is undiagnosed, you're probably right. And if you think you know how much drugs they're using, triple it, you'll be close to what they're doing. So moms, follow your intuition. And if your partner says, I don't see what you're saying, override them. You convince you show them and sit your child down. The best thing is to sit your child. Connection. Johann Hari Connection is the opposite of addiction. That's connection to anything. That's connection to their parents, connection to school, connection to a teacher, connection to a coach. Connection.
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A
That's beautiful. Connection is the opposite of addiction. Well, Dave, what, what is stopping parents? Why don't they have these conversations?
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B
You know, parents are busy parents. There's a lot going on in the world today. Parents are trying to pay the bills like, like anytime. But you very rarely have two parents in a home anymore. That's just the way it is. And the, the parent has to understand and take a minute. You don't have to set aside time. Like, you can't tell your child, we're going to have a talk tonight. We're gonna have a heart to heart talk. We're gonna connect tonight. We're gonna. You know what? I like to see parents, when you pass them in the hallway, put your hand around, arm around him, say, you know, I love you more than life itself. We haven't talked in a couple days. Give me two minutes tonight, let's talk. I just want to see how your day's going. Just.
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A
I love. Two minutes. Yeah, two minutes.
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B
And you don't know what that and the connection. You don't know where that two minutes is going to go. You don't need a lot of time. Just give it some thought. Touch your kid, tell them you love them. Even though you, you do, they know you do. Let them hear it. But you got to have that talk with them. And we got to be open. And parents have to be open with their own. You know, addiction could own stuff. Addiction comes from so many angles. From trauma, genetics, being bullied at school, being lonely, just emotional. Yeah, it can come from so many angles. You don't know where it's going to come from. And, and so you have to be open with your, with. What are you doing now? If you're a parent, you want to like do an edible at night to go to sleep. I get it. But does your kid get it? Does your kid understand it, if a dad, you like to go hang out with the buddies and watch college football, but you need a ride home. Your parents, your kids see that, right? You have too many beers, your kids see that. It's okay. You're not, you're fine. But have that conversation. Yeah, have that conversation with your kid. Nobody is going to have, nobody's going to have that conversation like you are
- [30:19]
A
equipped them with the information. Yeah, with the information. It made a difference. It made a difference in, in my daughter's life, me being willing to go, look, I really messed this thing up here and I'm in recovery and she, she watched how hard recover recovery was. But I, I made certain I equipped her with things that would light her up. Like she's a bit of a science geek and she loved that. And so I really fed into that too. So when you're talking to your kids, you know, find what lights them up and, and incorporate it in those two minutes. And I love your two minute rule because what do we always say? I don't have time. I don't have time. I don't have time. I'm, I, I, I don't have time. You certainly have two minutes to put your arm around your kid and say, hey, let's just chat for five minutes. What's up? What's been going down? Yeah, I missed you. I just realized we haven't chatted in a few days. What's going down? Yeah, my daughter and I get together, we swap off, I go to her place once a week and she comes to my place once a week and we still, and she's an adult now, but we still have that catch up. Hey, what's going on in your life? And still to this day she'll be like, mom, I need some advice. And you know, she, now she doesn't always listen to.
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B
No, she won't and they won't. But you know what?
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A
We're planting seeds. Yeah, she'll be like, I got a great idea. And I'm in my head, I'm like, I just told you that two months ago.
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B
No, you are absolutely right. But what you have is a connection with her. And not only are you planting seeds, but you're alleviating. You can only do so much for your child. You can only give them so much. You give them all that you have and you try to teach them, but at some point it's up to them. Yeah, you know, it really is. So you do alleviate that guilt you may have later. Why, why didn't I have that conversation? Why Didn't I say that? You can bet my kids know everything that their grandparents went through and then what I went through and what may be in their blood, may be in their genes, I don't know. And, but I've given them information I can't do anymore. I let them know if anything happens. I'll be right here.
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A
Yep.
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B
I'm not going anywhere. But I've given you all the information I know. What you do with it is up to you.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And. And our kids get that again. Our kids are bright. They are very. And they get it.
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A
Yeah, they are. They are. They always have been. I mean straight out of the womb, smarter than we give them credit for because they start absorbing right away and actually in your neuro, they start absorbing the, the vibrations in the environment. And so we're setting them up from, from day one. So, okay, parents are told to monitor your child. But surveillance and way overdoing that can break trust. And trust is really important because if they don't trust you, they're not going to come to you. So what do you recommend in, in everything that you've seen and everything that you know, how can we supervise phones and friendships and, and behavior and online activity while maintaining that trust and not breaking it?
- [33:40]
B
That's hard too. That's, that takes, that's nuanced too. You're absolutely right. And I will tell you that there's very few parents unless your kid, kid is 8, 10 years old. Very few parents that are better versed on the computer than their child. Very few. Now I've had quick story. I had a parents who started spying on their, their, their daughter via the phone. Well, she was a couple of keystrokes away. She thought something was a little wrong because her parents were talking about things that she hadn't talked to them about.
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A
Okay.
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B
Like oh, are you going to Chicago this weekend? Or whatever it was. And she hadn't mentioned it. So she knew something was up. So she was sitting in class talk to her friends about it. A couple of keystrokes later she was looking up on social media how to tell if your parents are spying on you. She got your answers right next to the social media page. That taught her how to where to hide where with the best place to hide drugs in her room so her parents wouldn't find it. Okay, so this, this information is out there. She found out about it. Obviously a huge level of trust was now gone. And she ended up buying a drop poem for about 19. Using that to buy drugs. None. And then she started selling Drugs and going into dangerous neighborhoods. The entire time, her parents were spying on her phone and thought everything was fine. So, you know, it's very, it's. They have a get around. And what I sell the parents. When you want to supervise a monitor, you do that by reaching out. You reach out to schools and let them know I'm having an issue. My child is showing me things at home. What are you seeing at school? I'm having. Can you help me understand what's going on with my child? You talk to schools, there's that support again.
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A
They're there to help support you.
- [35:45]
B
You talk to the coaches, you talk to your partner, you talk to family members. Hey, Bobby doesn't seem like he's doing fine. Is it me? What's going on? Are you seeing things in your brother that I'm not seeing? Now those people become supervision tools. Now those people become monitoring tools. Right. You talk to the coach, you talk to the neighbor. Hey, I think I'm going to my kids. Just. This is that rough age, you know, 16. The, you know, are you seeing anything that I'm not seeing? That's how you supervise your child. That's how you monitor and with humans.
- [36:22]
A
Look at that. It's with human beings again. Yeah. Human connection. And then you are also connecting to these other humans to deepen your bond with them, to help support. Support your child better.
- [36:35]
B
Yeah, 100%. And none of this is done in secrecy, by the way.
- [36:38]
A
Yeah.
- [36:39]
B
I want your child to know you're doing thing these things. I want your child to know as probation officer, first thing I do is go to school. And I'd introduce myself to every teacher, every dean. And that kid knew. And then in front of him, I say, this is my number. You call me day or night. If Johnny, if anything's going on, good or bad, I want to know. I. I knew his neighbors. I knew the family. Everybody would tell me what was going on because they knew I wasn't there to put him in jail. I was there to keep him out of jail. We're not there to punish her. You're not there to punish your kid or to catch your kid or a gotcha moment. You're there to help them, convincing them of that.
- [37:20]
A
I was gonna say yes. If you, if you go about that the wrong in a way that breaks trust. Just. It's so hard to rebuild. It's so hard to rebuild.
- [37:31]
B
But it's very simple to say, look, start the conversation off with I love you more than life itself. And. But I'm seeing things and some of the things you're doing that are scaring me, making me afraid.
- [37:45]
A
Scaring me, making me afraid. Yeah.
- [37:47]
B
Be honest. Be honest. And I'm so worried about you. What is going on? Just that you're not shaming them, you're just trying to talk to them. Just talk to them. And. And, you know, even if your kid gets up and says it's nothing and walks out the door, fine, you said it. That's okay. You got it out. Do it again.
- [38:13]
A
That's what I was gonna say. Yeah.
- [38:16]
B
They'll get the message. If you're. If your intentions are true, your kid will know it.
- [38:20]
A
It.
- [38:21]
B
If they're not, your kid will know it.
- [38:23]
A
Yeah.
- [38:24]
B
And, you know, if it's to shame,
- [38:25]
A
judge, or punish, it's not going to go over well. Yeah.
- [38:29]
B
Right. And again, it's. It's trying to get parents to realize, don't be mad at your kid. Be mad at the addiction. Be, you know, focus on the addiction and the drugs. Don't f. Try to shame your child. Could. It's a disease. Nobody wants their family to not like them. Nobody wants to, you know, not live up to what they think they should be. Nobody wants that. It is a disease. We have to understand that. And sure, maybe the first drink or what is. It's their choice, but after that, they don't have the power. You know, I don't have. I have zero anger toward my dad. Zero. I'm. I'm. I'm grateful. I like where I am in life today. I'm here because of him. The good things and the bad things, they got equal, equal balance in my world. So you have to understand, they're doing the best they can. And our children are at a disadvantage. They're being victimized by people again who don't know them, don't love them, don't like them, see them as a source
- [39:38]
A
of money and don't care.
- [39:40]
B
Or clicks, whatever it may be, they do not care. So, you know, nobody's Superman's not.
- [39:48]
A
I like that. Or clicks. Right. Yeah. On social media. Yeah.
- [39:55]
B
You know, I'm not going to get any clicks. Talking to kids through, hey, this is what the facts are about. Drugs. I'm not going to get any. But if I tell stories of kids getting high and having so much fun and it feels so good and it gets, you know, lies. If. If you're depressed, this will bring you out of your depression. If you're anxious so, you know, help you with the anxiety. All lies. But those get clicks.
- [40:20]
A
So, you know, well, Speaking of that, that rolls us in, too. You talk about social media, corporations, illegal drug markets, and other power forces specifically targeting young people. What, what do you feel like we, as parents, do you think we're missing how big and how, how much power that actually has?
- [40:47]
B
I think we're missing, we're missing that and we are missing the point that we are missing how serious this problem. Problem is and how dangerous it is. And we, we think back to when maybe we were younger and we tried marijuana and it was at 3% THC. THC is the addiction level. I like to use it as an addiction level. It was 3%. Kids today are doing 10 times that amount. So when you do 10 times that amount, that's 10 times the effect. 10 times the addiction level. And you know, there's, there's never been a more dangerous time in the history of the world to be a drug user than today. They're more prevalent, it's easily accessed, they're stronger and they're more lethal. Tomorrow's going to be worse than today. Yeah, but today is the worst it's ever been. And I, I know a lot of people are just listening to, to this and not, not, not watching it, but I, when I talk to families and groups, I hold up a, a pack of sugar. Standard pack of sugar you get at the, at the restaurant, it's 3.5 grams. If this pack of sugar was fentanyl, it would kill 1,000 people. And people, Parents have to understand regular
- [42:09]
A
sugar that you get at Waffle House. Seriously? Yeah.
- [42:12]
B
If they were fen, like you kill a thousand people. And parents have to understand these are not. The facts are that there's fentanyl. And if a child or any of anybody is buying an illegal drug off the Internet or on the street, there's more than likely to be fentanyl in that drug they're buying. I don't care if they're buying Adderall, Xanax, heroin, cocaine. There's going to be fentanyl in there. Six out of 10 times.
- [42:47]
A
Those are huge numbers, my friend.
- [42:48]
B
It's huge numbers. And, and there's other drugs, Fentanyls. We won't even be talking about fentanyl in a few years. We're going to be talking about car, whatever's next on the street that's 100 times stronger. So it's not going anywhere. The addiction is not going anywhere. Drugs are not going anywhere. Parents have to understand that. And this is a serious, serious problem. But they have the power to change their child. They have the Power to change the children's the way they look at things and we need to act on that. We have more power than I've seen too.
- [43:25]
A
My child has the power to change her little friend circles choices too.
- [43:30]
B
You know, 100 we, you know, peer groups we hang out with who reminds us of us.
- [43:40]
A
Yeah.
- [43:41]
B
Right. So if you don't like your child's peer group, I've told parents the hard reality is you don't like your child's peer group. Take a look at your child. Don't judge them for that. I don't want to be, I don't want to be judged for who I was when I was 15.
- [43:54]
A
Yeah, right.
- [43:55]
B
Not now.
- [43:56]
A
Nor do I.
- [43:57]
B
Nor do any of us. So understand that your child is always changing and evolving and that evolvement may be something you don't really like right now, but that's okay. But you need to act on it because your child is hanging out with people he's comfortable with.
- [44:14]
A
Yeah.
- [44:15]
B
So if you don't like who they're hanging out with, again, connect with your child and don't punish them, don't ridicule them, don't shame them. But look at why the first step
- [44:26]
A
we were discussing starts with the take a look in the mirror also first you parents take a look in the mirror first before you even begin those conversations. Right, okay. Yeah. Right. Take a look in the mirror first.
- [44:41]
B
And then there's so much. Everything on, everything you went through is passed on to your daughter.
- [44:45]
A
Yes.
- [44:45]
B
Everything your parents went through is passed on to you. That's how, that's how this works.
- [44:49]
A
Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, my friend Dave, if parents listening right now, all right, somebody's out there listening, suspects their child may be using drugs but may feel frightened, ashamed, not even sure, unprepared, not sure what to do. What can they do today?
- [45:13]
B
Today is a good question because so many people talk about this and they talk about the problem but not a real solution. You know, having dinner sometime with your child next week is not a solution. I wrote Tip of the Spear. It's a two part book. The one is how did we get here? The war on drugs. What we did wrong, what we did right. The second part is factual. Things we can do today doesn't cost. They don't cost a dime. Call them the articles of action that we can do. Every parent can do with their child. The, the, the. That part of my book is, is was used as a foundation for a inline online community forum free called asapcommunity.org if parents do Nothing else. I would love them to go to asapcommunity.org, follow the prompt, put their name in. They don't put it. There's no money. This is free. You don't put in your visa, your mess, none of that, just your name. You will have access to this online forum, community forum.
- [46:24]
A
I love that. Guys, you don't even have to write that down. We're going to include the link right down below this, this episode. So.
- [46:31]
B
And, yeah, and the, and one of the fa, One of the articles of action really quickly, Lisa, is facts. Just go to that. Read facts. Read about what THC is today, what, you know, what compared to yesterday and, and some of the things we talked about. You're going to have 30, 40, 50 facts. Read them and sit down with your kid and just show them.
- [46:54]
A
Yeah.
- [46:55]
B
These facts tonight. It doesn't need to be a big deal. It gives you a reason to talk to them for a few minutes.
- [47:02]
A
And that's to be a wow moment. Wow. Look what I found out today. I didn't know this, did you?
- [47:06]
B
Exactly. You know, right? It all starts first with education and then from, and then we go from there. So if they do nothing else, it's again, 100% free. Have a, have a discussion with your child today. Did you know that marijuana is addictive? 77% of children don't know that. Do you know it increases depression? Do you know schizophrenia? Tell them what schizophrenia is. Just have these conversations. Two minutes, two minutes and go.
- [47:35]
A
I like that. Start with two minutes. Two minutes and an arm around the shoulder. And start from there. If they don't hug you anymore, they don't hug you anymore. Start with an arm around the shoulder. Well, Dave, where can people find you? We've said where they can find your community. We're going to make sure, guys, you don't even have to write it down. But where can they find you? Where can they find your book?
- [47:57]
B
Sure. Tip of the spear. You can find it Amazon and, and Walmart Books and Barnes and Noble on Facebook. You can find me asapcommunity.org reach out and I will, I will reach out. I will. You'll hear from me. Let me know. I'll give you from my phone number. You know, 35 years I've handed my phone number out to thousands of people. So you call me anytime, day or night. And they do. And that's how we get things done. We don't, you know, we. It's a connection.
- [48:26]
A
And human connection is the solution to all of this. Human connection. All Right. Dave, we always close out with two questions from our guests. Are you ready?
- [48:38]
B
Sure.
- [48:38]
A
All right. In your own life, what did you perform in order to survive? And what did dropping that role, mask or performance do to improve your life?
- [48:52]
B
Well, I'll tell you what I think, and it's. I didn't come to this. It took me a long time to come to this conclusion that I really. We talk about these family growing up in a family and not reaching out, not wanting anybody to know what you're doing. I've. I've realized lately that I do not want to ask for help for anything. I'll do it myself. I've been. I've been together with my wife for 40 years. Thank God she understands me. So she has helped me with this. And. But even some things, I'll brood and I'll start to dwell on something and how do I fix this problem? I don't want any. I don't need your help. And she's brought me along very slowly. But doing that is incredible and. Right. It's been. It's been a bit. Thank God. She's been patient, but I have a.
- [49:52]
A
I have a patient husband. I don't ask for help either. I've got a bum knee right now. We were at the store this morning, and I got a rock in the other shoe, but I could put weight on my other shoe. And he was like, lisa, stop. It was like, you got to get better at asking for help. I'm here to help you. I'm like, I got this and I'm stuck. But I'm stuck. I couldn't move.
- [50:10]
B
No. And you know what?
- [50:11]
A
Going to ask for help.
- [50:13]
B
And it's such a sign of strength and a sign of courage, of sign of really feeling good about yourself to be able to say, I'm not. I don't have this. I need.
- [50:24]
A
I'm not okay. I'm not okay.
- [50:26]
B
Yeah, that's. It's such a sign of strength.
- [50:28]
A
Yeah, it's okay. We all struggle. It's part of the human experience. We all have trauma. It's part of the human experience. Well, Dave, I. I pretty much know the answer to this, but we ask every guest the same question to really close out. What do you wish we were talking more about
- [50:47]
B
again? How much power parents have. Don't leave it up to anybody else to teach your kids, educate your kids, connect with your child. One walk, passing each other in the hallway, and, you know, if I have time for one quick story, I was
- [51:06]
A
about to go for it.
- [51:08]
B
I was going off to work one day, and my kids were sitting at the counter. I would go and going to work about 1 in the afternoon, I was working, you know, so I had my bulletproof vest out of my gear, and it's on the table, and I take it off, and as I'm walking out the door, bye. I love you. I shut the door. I realize I didn't hear anything back. I go back in the house, I throw the stuff down. I says, you know, when somebody loves you, they tell you. You acknowledge it. And if you love them, you tell them every day.
- [51:43]
A
Yeah.
- [51:43]
B
Don't let anything pass without you saying that. Now I get my kids are. You know, they're going to the store to get something. I hear, I love you. Right. Or they're going out to. To walk the dog. I love you.
- [51:56]
A
It means it's important to tell our kids that we love them. I grew up in a household where that was never said. And when my daughter was born, I had to teach myself how to hug her. And so it was always very important for me to. To have her know that I loved her. And. And yes, answer. Answer that back. So important. So important. So. And you know what? For some of you parents out there, that may take practice, and that's okay. There's no shame in that. Maybe you were raised in a household where you never heard it, so you don't know how to say it. Start practicing it today. That's another thing. You can start today. Yeah.
- [52:37]
B
Yeah.
- [52:38]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. And friends out there, as we close out, always we close out with this question for you. What are you performing in order to survive in your own life? And what might dropping that role masker performance do to improve it? I'm Lisa Lacey, your host, and when you find that answer, welcome to the Edge. Dave, thank you so much.
- [53:02]
B
Thank you, Lisa.