NPR's Book of the Day – Comic journalist Joe Sacco on his portrait of deadly riots in Uttar Pradesh, India

Date: November 25, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbaugh
Guest: Joe Sacco (Comics journalist, author of "The Once and Future Riot")

Episode Overview

This episode features acclaimed comics journalist Joe Sacco discussing his latest book, The Once and Future Riot. Sacco's work centers on the 2013 communal violence in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh and delves into the stories people construct around conflict. The conversation goes beyond the specifics of the Indian riots, touching on the nature of narrative, the mechanics of political movements, the erosion of democracies, and Sacco’s unique approach to journalism through comics. The discussion draws parallels to global issues, notably the current climate in the United States and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Storytelling and the Formation of Political Identity

• Host’s Introduction (00:02): Andrew Limbaugh frames the conversation: people view themselves as heroes in their own stories, sometimes distorting reality—a theme Sacco tackles head-on.
• Sacco on Stories as Foundations of Conflict (01:43):
  • "Because ultimately, I think everything's about story. ...You want to diminish any role you might have had in the violence, and you want to foist something else on the antagonist. ...That's how you can build a political movement."
  • Sacco argues that community narratives are not mere recollections, but foundational tools for identity and politics.

2. Reporting on Violence and Separating Fact from Fiction

• Sacco’s Methodology (02:26, 03:00):
  • He investigates myths by comparing community accounts to documented facts, often finding vast discrepancies.
  • Example (03:00):
    • "I was told that it was children who threw the stones. Children, sometimes women. Those things seemed quite ludicrous to me."
    • Sacco describes using his “journalistic spidey senses” to challenge collective narratives and dig for truth.
  • Sacco frames the book as “pure journalism,” actively fact-checking conflicting accounts.

3. Delayed Publication and Emotional Fatigue

• Sacco on the Book’s Timeline (04:31):
  • He started work on the Uttar Pradesh story immediately after his 2014 reporting trip but had to stop due to emotional exhaustion:
    • "I wrote the script and I drew about 14 or 15 pages, and I just had to stop. ...I was kind of sickened by it."
  • His attempt to escape stories of violence through another book ironically led him to another narrative of trauma (residential schools in Canada), making him recognize the universality of violence.

4. Larger Themes: Democracy, “The Other,” and Global Parallels

• Significance Beyond India (05:31):
  • Sacco links the India riots to global patterns in democracy and marginalization:
    • "A lot of that has to do with finding the enemy... In India's case, it happens to be the Muslim population. And in the United States... it's immigrants and it's been Black people. ...Fear is, I think, one of the primary reasons why people flock to certain politicians that stoke fear and tell them they'll have security." (05:40)
  • He connects erosion of democracy directly to the creation of internal enemies, a tactic seen worldwide.

5. Comics Journalism: The Personal in the Political

• Including Himself in the Narrative (06:57):
  • Sacco’s comics place himself as a character, challenging typical journalistic objectivity:
    • "Often there are interactions with people on the ground that bring out a lot about culture, about hospitality... The other thing is it sort of lets the reader know that this is from one person's point of view, that I'm actually a human being conducting this journalism. ...I like to emphasize sometimes some of the seams of journalism and how it's gathered."

6. On the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

• Looking at Gaza (08:20):
  • Drawing on decades of reporting, Sacco gives a somber outlook:
    • "I'm not sure if it's heading to a good place. I think ultimately Israel would prefer to completely subjugate the Palestinians or cleanse them completely from the territories. ...The Palestinians need to have self determination and without that, on some level the conflict is going to keep going on."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On narrative and blame:
  • "It's how you categorize your enemy. You want to diminish any role you might have had in the violence, and you want to foist something else on the antagonist." — Joe Sacco (01:43)
• On the reporter’s responsibility:
  • "This is a book of, in some ways, pure journalism, where you have she said, he said, and then you actually try to ascertain what the facts are rather than just letting people say what they think or what they say happened." — Joe Sacco (03:43)
• On the fatigue of chronicling violence:
  • "I wrote the script and I drew about 14 or 15 pages, and I just had to stop. I've spent so much time writing about violence and drawing it. It was just getting to me." — Joe Sacco (04:31)
• On the importance of self-inclusion in journalism:
  • "I like to emphasize sometimes some of the seams of journalism and how it's gathered." — Joe Sacco (06:57)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Origins of the Book & Focus on Storytelling: 01:14–02:26
• Disentangling Myth and Fact: 02:44–04:19
• Delayed Publication & Author’s Emotional Journey: 04:19–05:31
• Democracy, Marginalization & Global Parallels: 05:31–06:41
• Including the Journalist in the Narrative: 06:41–07:58
• Reflections on Gaza & Global Conflict: 07:58–08:46

Tone & Style

The conversation is thoughtful, probing, and grounded in empathy. Sacco is candid about both the difficulty of confronting violence and the necessity of honest, grounded reporting. A recurring theme is his commitment to truth—even when it means challenging people's cherished narratives—and to revealing the process by which stories, both journalistic and communal, are constructed.

Summary Takeaways

• Joe Sacco’s The Once and Future Riot investigates not just the tumultuous events of the 2013 Uttar Pradesh riots, but the narratives communities create afterward.
• Sacco uses comics journalism to peer behind the conflicting stories, emphasizing the tension between memory, myth, and fact.
• He connects the Indian experience to widespread challenges in democracy, where “enemy” narratives justify eroding rights and fuel populist movements.
• Sacco is forthright about the personal toll of reporting on violence and responsive to the ethics of representing trauma.
• The personal element in his journalism—drawing himself into the story—serves to highlight subjectivity and process, making his approach transparent and relatable.

Recommended for listeners interested in global issues, narrative journalism, and the interplay between politics, violence, and storytelling.