D (3:30)

So I use the example of helping a friend move when you want to go to the beach. What are some other signs or examples?

E (3:36)

Generally, it's saying yes to a lot of things that you don't want to do. So I'm an overworker. Like, when I was in my 20s, I'd always say yes to the extra shift. I'd always say yes to covering someone who was off sick because I couldn't let my boss down. Like, could never take a sick day. That's a really good sign of a people pleaser. Generally, people pleasers don't like to share what's actually happening. So no matter how they're feeling, they're always fine. They're always good. Everything is fine because they're not, like, listening to themselves.

D (4:10)

So you just use this example from your own life. I'm curious what your journey with this has been like. You know, was there one moment or a series of moments where you realized, oh, gosh, I need to stop doing this?

E (4:22)

The biggest one, one was I was running an event for. I was putting on this big thing for, like, 100 women. And I had all these speakers lined up. And I came down to the day, like, right, I'm gonna do the timetable. I'm gonna, like, map it all out. And I'd realized that I had left no room for me to even present at my own, like, event. I was like, are you kidding me? Why would I do that to myself? Because I was putting everyone else first. These were friends I knew and, you know, just thought, like, it would be really great if all these extra people came in on board, when in fact, I didn't need to.

D (4:59)

So let's talk about how that situation, putting other people's needs above your own, what does that do to your mental health, to your relationships?

E (5:09)

So in relationships quite often you're hiding a lot of your own truth because you're too scared to express it. You don't want to actually share that. Oh, it'd be really nice to go to the beach today because it's going to be a nice sunny day and I live in Scotland, so for those who've ever been to Scotland, it rains a whole bunch. So not to share that when you can. Yeah, you really have to. If I didn't share that with my partner, you know, I'm then starting to become frustrated and resentful because I feel like I can't share my own truth.

D (5:43)

As such that your own identity in a way is not shining through. Yeah, no, yeah.

E (5:49)

You can't admit your own truth.

D (5:52)

So let's talk about how to stop people pleasing then. You have 11 steps and we just don't have time to get to all of them. But what's one thing, the first thing someone can do if they start to recognize this in themselves?

E (6:04)

The first thing I say to every people pleaser is that we need to turn the table around on your awareness. People pleasers are super vigilant. They are constantly, constantly reading, assuming and guessing what other people are doing. What people pleasers don't have is the ability to actually experience their own full scope of emotions, body's reactions and things. You just don't take notice of it. So what I get people to do is I call it like five minutes of mindfulness. To sit somewhere where they have no distractions, no phone, no nothing, and just sit there. Now it's probably one of the most hardest things you can do because it's so not normal. We live in such a busy world. So to sit for five minutes in our own self is difficult. But in that you get to then learn like, oh, how am I actually feeling? How am I responding to the weather today? How am I responding to what I'm just thinking about? Because when we're people pleasing, we don't even consider that. We're just like, oh, we're just waiting for the smile. We're waiting for the yes, we're waiting for their reaction, not listening to our own.

D (7:25)

But this all seems really difficult to do. You started earlier in the conversation. You said that it starts when, you know, when we're babies and our parents are feeding us, you know, so these are, these are deep, entrenched Habits, how do you start to etch away at that?

E (7:41)

Well, that's sitting with yourself for five minutes is a really good start. The reason being is it teaches you about yourself. So yes, that's a part of it. But then if you wanted to scratch this like the next layer off, it's going back to those beliefs that we have. So, for example, okay, so if I eat everything on my plate, I am a good human. Say for example, because when I was a kid, my parents were like, you have to eat everything. And so when I did, it pleased them.

D (8:12)

Right.

E (8:13)

So me as an adult, I have to reassess those beliefs of do I actually need to clear everything off my plate in order to be finished, to be full, to be what? Because they're no longer making the rules for my life. You know, you have to assess each belief that you have.

D (8:35)

Here's another reason I think this might be difficult. Because if you've been someone who always says yes throughout your life, what happens when you start to say no? I'm wondering if the people in your life are starting to wonder, well, who is this person? You know, I want to say yes.

E (8:55)

Yeah. Boundary vampires, they exist. Wow. So these are the people who don't take no for an answer. One of the best tricks I give to everybody is to get a one liner and to stick to it. So again, example, friend asks you to go to the help the move's house and your response should actually be, I can't, I'm off to the beach. So you could negotiate from there. So using that classic one liner can help the boundary vampires because they don't want to hear your truth over and over again because they just want you to hurry up and say yes because that's what you're, they're used to you doing. So there's an adjustment period and it does take time with some relationships where you start asserting your own beliefs and your own truth as such.

D (9:49)

And what happens in someone's life when they start to do that, when they assert their own beliefs and their own identity, like, what does that do for you?

E (9:58)

I think it opens up endless possibilities. So if you finally decide that you, I don't know, want to go to a yoga class and that's your new weekly ritual or whatever it is, you're showing up for yourself and it brings more self confidence and then that filters into like every single area of your life because you're just giving yourself that one little thing. But then it slowly becomes more of those things. And it's not that, you know, when we end people pleasing, we become selfish. It's actually about fulfilling some of the things that we need to do as humans to thrive. That could be self care. It could be like a project. It could be anything.

D (10:39)

Yeah, well, Lizzie Molt, author of the upcoming book F Approval, you don't need it. Thank you very much. I don't need approval. You don't need approval. Nobody needs approval. Thanks for reminding us, Lizzie. Appreciate it.

B (11:03)

This message comes from Jackson Seek clarity in retirement planning@jackson.com Jackson is short for Jackson Financial, Inc. Jackson National Life Insurance Co. Lansing, Michigan and Jackson National Life Insurance Co. New York Purchase, New York.

C (11:19)

This message comes from Warby Parker Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.

B (11:34)

This message comes from Pakka. Everyone's got that one hoodie they practically live in. But the Pakka hoodie, it's on another level. Softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, and still breathable, this Alpaka Fiber hoodie goes from airport to mountain trail to couch without missing a beat. Right now, grab a Pakka hoodie and score a free pair of Alpaka crew socks. Moisture wicking, odor resistant and guaranteed for life. Level up your hoodie game@go.pakaapparel.com NPR Code NPR.