NPR's Book of the Day: “How a Game Lives,” “How to Save the Internet” – The Best and Worst of Life Online

Date: December 12, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbong

Episode Overview

This episode examines the dual nature of the Internet—its potential for creativity and community as well as its risks and darker influences. Through conversations with two authors—cultural critic Jacob Geller (“How a Game Lives”) and former Meta executive Nick Clegg (“How to Save the Internet”)—the episode explores how the online world shapes culture, art, and even democracy itself.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Internet’s “Best of Times”: Jacob Geller & How a Game Lives

[00:02–10:56]

Modern Video Essays as Art and Cultural Critique

• Host Andrew Limbong frames YouTube as a new venue for documentary and cultural commentary, setting up a conversation with Jacob Geller, known for his in-depth video essays on games, art, and culture.
  • "The Internet can be a very, very, very bad place ... But it can be a genuinely beautiful place too, where people earnestly share their wonder." (Andrew Limbong, 00:02)
• Geller explains his approach to video essays—connecting digital life with broader art and literature.
  • "It's one of my favorite things to do to show that [games] are also part of this giant conversation about art that we're all having." (Jacob Geller, 03:30)

Merging Virtual and Real-Life Experiences

• Geller’s signature style involves linking gameplay moments with personal stories and classic literature.
  • In his essay “Fear of Cold” (excerpt played at 02:50):
    "As the temperature plummeted further and further below zero, I realized I had knocked over the first domino hours before without even thinking about it..."
  • He draws connections to Jack London’s “To Build a Fire” and other cultural references, showing how games can evoke universal emotions and questions.
• Geller argues that video games provoke distinct feelings through both narrative and mechanics, offering unique perspectives compared to films or books.
  • "Games are incredibly good at making you feel a specific feeling. Most games have a narrative... but also have mechanics ... you’re having to make decisions in a way that you can't do in a book." (Jacob Geller, 05:13)

The Creative Process Behind Essays

• Geller starts with small observations—sometimes “the smallest possible thing that catches my interest” (06:19)—and builds out essays by aggregating ideas from games, movies, literature, and more.
  • Example: His essay on digging holes started from a simple game and expanded into a cultural analysis featuring “The Shawshank Redemption” and news stories of people digging for no reason.

The Double-Edged Nature of Online Platforms

• While recognizing the downsides (algorithm-driven echo chambers, risks of radicalization), Geller also credits the Internet for helping niche art and ideas reach a wide audience:
  • "Something that is actually kind of amazing... is it has allowed me to make these things that seem incredibly specific, and then find that actually a lot of people have the same niche, specific interests." (Jacob Geller, 07:45)
• On the impermanence of digital content, Geller sees publishing a physical book as a form of preservation:
  • "Anything digital kind of slips through our fingers if we're not actively trying to preserve it." (Jacob Geller, 08:54)

Preserving the History and Impact of Games

• Geller positions his book as a record of games-as-art and the conversations surrounding them:
  • "If we aren't able to remember what people were talking about when those first things came out, then we end up just kind of having the same conversations over and over. ... If we can remember that, then we can kind of move forward in the way that we think about them and analyze them." (Jacob Geller, 10:00)

Memorable Insight

• "It really is this feeling of anything digital kind of slipping through our fingers if we're not actively trying to preserve it." (Jacob Geller, 08:54)

2. The Internet’s “Worst of Times”: Nick Clegg & How to Save the Internet

[11:48–19:00]

Big Tech, Politics, and Difficult Choices

• Host introduces Nick Clegg, former UK Deputy Prime Minister and Meta’s president of global affairs, as the episode’s “bad stuff” expert discussing the Internet’s challenges.
• Clegg describes being at the center of political and ethical dilemmas, notably Meta’s content moderation choices in turbulent times:
  • "You get an uneasy feeling having an unelected entity, one of these tech companies, deciding that an outgoing president of the United States had forfeited the right to use Facebook's services. On the other hand, it is equally troubling to think that just because someone is powerful, they can violate the rules..." (Nick Clegg, 14:56)

The Shifting Sands of Content Moderation

• Clegg acknowledges that tech companies, including Meta, sometimes “overdid it” on moderation and later had to recalibrate:
  • "The boundaries of free expression versus content moderation have become a much more politicized subject in the last half decade or so ... it's best for them to be able to kind of have a bit of a North Star themselves and stick to it, rather than swinging, you know, like a yo-yo from one side to the other." (Nick Clegg, 13:36)

The Geopolitics of the Internet and AI

• Clegg argues for global cooperation among “digital democracies” (U.S., India, Europe) to regulate the Internet and AI, warning against each nation walling off their own digital space—a phenomenon he calls "balkanization":
  • "At the moment we're seeing the growing fragmentation, the balkanization of the Internet itself ... that will increasingly lead to a fragmented Internet. ... There has to be a deliberate decision... to create new rules of the road, new guardrails, particularly pertinent to artificial intelligence..." (Nick Clegg, 16:22)
• He sees India as pivotal:
  • "If India aligns with China in the AI age, then US leadership will, over time, erode." (Nick Clegg, 17:48)

Clegg’s Candid “Globalist” Stance

• Clegg openly embraces the label “Internet globalist”:
  • "Yes, I am. Unapologetically so." (Nick Clegg, 18:51)

Notable Quote

• "If India aligns with China in the AI age, then US Leadership will, over time, erode." (Nick Clegg, 17:48)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "It's one of my favorite things to do to show that [games] are also part of this giant conversation about art that we're all having." — Jacob Geller [03:30]
• "Games are incredibly good at making you feel a specific feeling." — Jacob Geller [05:13]
• "Anything digital kind of slips through our fingers if we're not actively trying to preserve it." — Jacob Geller [08:54]
• "You get an uneasy feeling having an unelected entity... deciding that an outgoing president of the United States had forfeited the right to use Facebook's services." — Nick Clegg [14:56]
• "It's best for them to... have a bit of a North Star... rather than swinging, you know, like a yo-yo from one side to the other." — Nick Clegg [13:36]
• "If India aligns with China in the AI age, then US leadership will, over time, erode." — Nick Clegg [17:48]
• "Yes, I am. Unapologetically so." [On being an Internet globalist] — Nick Clegg [18:51]

Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:02 – Introduction and episode setup: beautiful vs. dark sides of the Internet
• 01:32 – Jacob Geller’s emergence as a YouTube video essayist
• 02:50 – Excerpt from Geller’s video essay “Fear of Cold”
• 03:15–05:13 – Collapsing boundaries between games and real life; games as cultural artifacts
• 06:19–07:26 – Geller’s creative process; essays sparked by “the smallest possible thing”
• 07:45–08:44 – The YouTube algorithm and reaching niche audiences
• 08:54–10:56 – The fragility of digital archives; why Geller published a book
• 11:48 – Introduction to Nick Clegg and the "bad stuff"
• 12:32–13:36 – Tech, politics, and “FOMO” among Silicon Valley leaders
• 14:56–15:54 – Meta’s handling of content moderation during political crisis
• 16:22 – Clegg’s argument for global regulation of the Internet and AI
• 17:48–18:51 – The geopolitical importance of India and Clegg's globalist view

Summary

This episode offers a nuanced exploration of how the Internet can nurture deep creativity and reflection (Jacob Geller), but also presents fraught ethical and political challenges for individuals and society (Nick Clegg). Both guests ultimately confront questions of impermanence, responsibility, and the importance of preserving both artistic and democratic values in a rapidly-changing digital landscape.