In a new book, Chris Hayes argues that attention is our most endangered resource

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Summary of Chris Hayes' "The Siren's Call: How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource"

Introduction

In the February 10, 2025 episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong introduces Chris Hayes, MSNBC host and author of the thought-provoking book, The Siren's Call: How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource. Hayes delves into the intricate dynamics of the attention economy, arguing that in our modern era, attention has become the most coveted and fragile commodity.

Attention as a Finite Resource

Chris Hayes begins by redefining our understanding of the "attention age." He explains that unlike information, which is abundant and generative, attention is a finite resource. Hayes emphasizes:

"If 10 firms have your data or a thousand do, it doesn't make that big a difference in your life. But if someone has your attention, someone else can't have it, and that does make a difference in your life."
(02:28)

This distinction highlights the competitive nature of capturing and maintaining audience attention in today's digital landscape.

The Attention Economy and Branding

Hayes discusses how modern businesses prioritize capturing attention over the intrinsic value of their products. He observes:

"This is one of the strange things about the age we live in, in which because of sort of the global industrial production and outsourcing, the actual product has become very secondary to the brand. I mean, the swoosh is what has value for Nike much more than the physical sneaker."
(03:05)

This shift underscores a broader trend where brand identity and visibility take precedence, often overshadowing the quality or functionality of the product itself.

Navigating the Attention Landscape

Using a compelling metaphor, Hayes likens attention to wind for a sailor:

"You can't control the wind, and you have to take it seriously as an actual force outside of you. If you don't do that, you're not going to get very far. At the same time, the craft that you develop over time is how to figure out how to use technique to capture that wind and move the boat in the direction you want to go."
(04:56)

This analogy illustrates the challenges media professionals face in directing audience attention amidst the unpredictable forces of public interest and engagement.

The Rise of Donald Trump in the Attention Age

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how the attention economy has shaped political strategies, particularly the rise of Donald Trump. Hayes asserts:

"I think he is the ultimate symbol of the attention age. I think because of his own personal profile, he has a kind of feral instinct for getting attention, a need for it that I think is boundless. And that need for it has led him into an insight that defines the attention age, which is that attention is the most important resource."
(05:37)

He further elaborates on Trump's strategy of garnering repeated, short bursts of attention rather than maintaining sustained engagement:

"He gets it over and over again. Just since the election... He's actually not good at holding attention. And this is a central dynamic of the attention age."
(06:30)

Hayes draws parallels between Trump's approach and the design of algorithmic feeds, which prioritize quick, attention-grabbing content over depth and longevity.

MSNBC and the Struggle to Hold Attention

The conversation shifts to Hayes' perspective on MSNBC's challenges in retaining audience engagement:

"To go back to the wind metaphor, I think it's largely the wind at this moment... What I will say is that my experience of covering politics for the last 20 years is that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction."
(07:08)

Hayes acknowledges the ebb and flow of public interest, suggesting that the current dip in engagement is temporary and influenced by the prevailing political climate.

Democratization of the Attention Chase

Hayes highlights a societal shift where the pursuit of attention is no longer confined to media professionals but is now a widespread phenomenon, especially among younger generations active on social media platforms:

"The experience of desperately chasing attention... is increasingly the experience of more and more people, particularly a younger generation that is raised on producing content for social media, whose aspirations to be famous on social media or to go viral, be influencers, as polls reflect, become a kind of dominant social model of aspiration."
(03:28 - 04:18)

This democratization underscores the pervasive influence of the attention economy across various facets of life and work.

Conclusion

Chris Hayes' The Siren's Call offers a compelling exploration of how attention has emerged as the most critical and endangered resource in the modern world. Through insightful analysis and relatable metaphors, Hayes elucidates the pervasive impact of the attention economy on media, business, politics, and individual behavior. This episode of NPR's Book of the Day provides listeners with a deep understanding of the challenges and implications of living in an era where attention is relentlessly sought after yet incredibly fragile.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Chris Hayes on Attention as a Resource:

  "If 10 firms have your data or a thousand do, it doesn't make that big a difference in your life. But if someone has your attention, someone else can't have it, and that does make a difference in your life."
  (02:28)

• Hayes on Branding vs. Product:

  "The swoosh is what has value for Nike much more than the physical sneaker."
  (03:05)

• The Wind Metaphor:

  "You can't control the wind... how to use technique to capture that wind and move the boat in the direction you want to go."
  (04:56)

• On Donald Trump and Attention:

  "He is the ultimate symbol of the attention age... attention is the most important resource."
  (05:37)

• Challenges at MSNBC:

  "For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction... my experience... the wind is never a permanent state of affairs."
  (07:08)

Final Thoughts

For those seeking to understand the intricate dance of attention in today's digital and political arenas, Chris Hayes' insights in The Siren's Call are indispensable. This episode of NPR's Book of the Day not only highlights the book's core themes but also situates them within the broader context of contemporary society's relentless pursuit of attention.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. MSNBC host Chris Hayes is on the pod today. He's got a book out titled the Siren's How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource. And that word, resource, it's an interesting one to use when talking about attention because it's not as if there's a lack of it. In fact, a lot of us are all too eager to hand our attention out willy nilly to social media, to the latest news stories, to any hot goss we hear either about about famous people or people we know. But the thing about attention is that it's fleeting. Hayes talks to NPR Steve Inskeep about how President Trump uses attention to further his goals and how Hayes himself thinks about the attention economy as a cable news host. That's up ahead.

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[Steve Inskeep]

A recent skit on Saturday Night Live featured a panel of cable TV news talent.

[Rachel Maddow]

Hello and welcome. Welcome to msnbc. I'm Rachel Meadow.

[Steve Inskeep]

They're trying to report on the inauguration of President Trump. But each time they analyze something Trump did, they are interrupted by news of something else Trump did.

[Rachel Maddow]

One thing I do know is this time around, we're not going to get sucked in by every new shiny crazy statement from Trump. We need to focus on what he does, not what he says. I'm sorry, I have to interrupt you. We have some breaking news. Trump has apparently just told reporters that he would.

[Steve Inskeep]

One of the panelists parodied in this skit is MSNBC program host Chris Hayes. Of course, the real Chris Hayes saw the skit and felt it could not be better timed.

[Chris Hayes]

Interestingly, it was a satirization of precisely the conundrum I wrote the whole book about.

[Steve Inskeep]

That new book is called the Sirens Call. It's about the battle for attention which Internet companies, advertisers, entertainers and politicians demand of us so constantly that we can't pay attention. You say this is not the information age, it's the attention age.

[Chris Hayes]

What do you mean information is generative, it's infinite. The thing that is finite in the information age, as we call it, is attention. If 10 firms have your data or a thousand do, it doesn't make that big a difference in your life. But if someone has your attention, someone else can't have it, and that does make a difference in your life.

[Steve Inskeep]

I thought at first when I started this book that you were going to tell me about social media and the demands of social media, and you do, and the demands of your phone. But you mentioned that every business is rewired for this. There are many businesses that are about the brand which is seizing attention, and not really even about the product. They could care less about the product.

[Chris Hayes]

This is one of the strange things about the age we live in, in which because of sort of the global industrial production and outsourcing, the actual product has become very secondary to the brand. I mean, the swoosh is what has value for Nike much more than the physical sneaker.

[Steve Inskeep]

You're in the attention business. What's it like to be in the attention business?

[Chris Hayes]

I don't think it's great for my psyche, but I think the insights that I've gleaned from being in the attention business, in which one always feels like one is chasing attention as opposed to directing it, which I think is a central experience of it. One of the insights I think I had over the course of the last 11 years that I've been hosting a cable news show is that this experience is actually being democratized before our eyes. That the experience of desperately chasing attention, desperately trying to figure out the whims of where it's going and how to hold it, is increasingly the experience of more and more people, particularly a younger generation that is raised on producing content for social media, whose aspirations to be famous on social media or to go viral, be influencers, as polls reflect, become a kind of dominant social model of aspiration. That this experience is now increasing the experience everyone has.

[Steve Inskeep]

Help me understand. When you say you're chasing attention as opposed to something else, somebody might think of you as who commands attention, who tells people what to think, or at least tells them what to pay attention to. You choose stories, people tune in. Is that not your experience?

[Chris Hayes]

It's not the subjective experience I think of doing my job, and I think many people in the media will tell you this, that if you're on the production side of media, you're trying to get people to read your stories or listen to your radio show or podcast or watch your television show, the attentional Whims of the audience feel extraneous. And the way I compare it in the book is like wind to a sailor.

[Steve Inskeep]

Oh, yeah, lay this out. I like this analogy. Go on.

[Chris Hayes]

You can't control the wind, and you have to take it seriously as an actual force outside of you. If you don't do that, you're not going to get very far. At the same time, the craft that you develop over time is how to figure out how to use technique to capture that wind and move the boat in the direction you want to go. There are certain things that are capturing people's attention at a given moment, and I can't control them en masse, but what I can do is sort of sense where those winds are blowing and attempt to use my rhetorical toolkit to get the show and the audience's attention to end up in the destination that I want it to end up in.

[Steve Inskeep]

How is the attention economy a factor in the rise of Donald Trump?

[Chris Hayes]

Well, I think he is the ultimate symbol of the attention age. I think because of his own personal profile, he has a kind of feral instinct for getting attention, a need for it that I think is boundless. And that need for it has led him into an insight that defines the attention age, which is that attention is the most important resource. And crucially, and this is a thing most politicians don't get, negative attention is just as good as positive attention, or at least it's better than no attention.

[Steve Inskeep]

I'm thinking about Trump's media and political strategy and how it fits with some of the things that you write. You point out that it is easier to get someone's attention for a moment than it is to hold someone's attention. And Trump doesn't necessarily try to hold your attention. He gets it over and over again. Just since the election. Let's take over Greenland. How about the Panama Canal? Canada. Let's rename Mount McKinley. We've gone on and on, always there's a new thing to get our attention again.

[Chris Hayes]

This is exactly right. In fact, when he tries to hold attention, famously when he goes for 90 minutes at a rally, people leave. He's actually not good at holding attention. And this is a central dynamic of the attention age. It's replicated in the slot machine design of the algorithmic feed, where you just grab, grab, grab, grab, grab. You never hold attention. Everything's short. You go to the next one. Trump has the exact same. You're totally right. Has the exact same approach to this. And that's because interruption and compelled attention are the circuitry that is easiest to fire in us.

[Steve Inskeep]

The impression from the outside is that MSNBC is struggling to hold people's attention. Do you see it that way?

[Chris Hayes]

To go back to the wind metaphor, I think it's largely the wind at this moment. The best sailors in the world can't sail on a dead calm sea. And I think there's lots of people who have just tuned out after the election and I totally understand that. I tend to think that is not a permanent state of affairs the way the wind is never a permanent state of affairs. What I will say is that my experience of covering politics for the last 20 years is that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. And right now I feel like there is a kind of pressing down of a spring happening in our politics amongst what I would call the almost 50% of the country that voted against Donald Trump or the smaller percentage that deeply, deeply dislikes him and think he's bad for the country. And I can feel that spring being pushed down and pushed down and pushed down. And it's now out of view. But I don't think it's going to stay out of view.

[Steve Inskeep]

Chris Hayes of MSNBC is the author of a new book, the Sirens How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource. Pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.

[Chris Hayes]

Thank you, Steve.

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