NPR's Book of the Day: "In new novels, marriages are tested by a last request and a moment in the spotlight"

Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbong

Episode Overview

In this episode, NPR spotlights two new novels that dive deep into the complexities and transformative moments within long-term marriages. The first interview explores Ann Packer's "Some Bright Nowhere," which examines the emotional turbulence surrounding a terminal diagnosis and a wife's unexpected last request. The second conversation features Craig Thomas, co-creator of "How I Met Your Mother," on his debut novel "That's Not How It Happened," centered around a family grappling with blurred professional boundaries and generational caregiving, inspired in part by his own experiences.

Segment 1: Ann Packer on Some Bright Nowhere

Interviewed by: Mary Louise Kelly

1. The Premise and the Big Request

• The novel centers on Elliot and Claire, a couple married many years, now facing Claire's terminal illness.
• At the story’s outset, Claire asks Elliot to move out of their home for her last days, so she can be cared for by her closest women friends.
• [01:38] Ann Packer: "She says that she would like her closest women friends to be in the house with her, taking care of her during her final days and weeks. And for Eliot to move out..."

2. Motivations and Emotional Realism

• Kelly expresses that Claire’s wish felt “cruel.”
• Packer explains the gesture reflects Claire's need for comfort and autonomy at the end of life, inspired by witnessing another woman’s death within a circle of friends.
• [02:02] Ann Packer: "I didn't mean it as cruel, No. I meant it as a reflection of her deep feelings in a very scary and sad moment in her life...she wants it for herself. And she's conveying her...dying wish, really."

3. Caregiving, Identity, and Letting Go

• The novel explores Elliot’s transformation as long-term caregiver, with Claire’s request perhaps unconsciously enabling him to rediscover himself before facing life alone.
• [02:57] Ann Packer: "...you could look at her request as entirely unconscious... aimed at helping Eliot find himself in these final days before he's gonna actually be on his own..."

4. The Uncertainty of Time

• Elliot’s distress about the unpredictability of dying timelines is a recurring theme.
• Packer reflects on the need for (and frustration with) prognoses in terminal illness.
• [04:07] Ann Packer: "You know it's coming, and you can't control that at all. The idea that you can get a bead on how long you have is very powerful..."
  • Packer and Kelly exchange about doctors offering vague estimates (“three to six months”) and the emotional difficulty that ambiguity brings.

5. Sadness, Beauty, and the End

• Packer openly acknowledges the sadness inherent in the book but says moments of genuine intimacy and truth also emerge at the end.
• [05:44] Ann Packer: "To me, there’s something beautiful, beautiful in the intimacy and the truth of what this couple and their children and friends get to at the end of the book. It’s a journey. Everybody’s going to go on one way or another..."
• Packer notes that dying is, in some ways, "more of the same until it isn't."
• [06:17] Ann Packer: "...as you go through the days, the weeks, possibly the months, you discover that, in a way, dying is more of the same. Until it isn't."

6. Writing Process and Gaps Between Books

• Kelly digs up a humorous ten-year-old essay by Packer about what authors do between books, with Packer joking about having to update social media now instead of websites.
• Packer reveals she struggled for years on a different book that never came together and was surprised by how quickly "Some Bright Nowhere" came to her.
• [07:57] Ann Packer: "I was working on a different book...I wrote it and wrote it and wrote it and wrote it, and I just couldn't get it to the right place...Then I thought about working on this, and to my surprise and delight, I got a first draft done in four months..."

Segment 2: Craig Thomas on That's Not How It Happened

Interviewed by: Sacha Pfeiffer

1. The Story and the Family Dynamic

• The novel follows a family of four: Rob (an aging screenwriter with declining success), Paige (his wife, a former investigative journalist who gave up her career to care for their son Emmett, who has Down syndrome), Emmett (now 24 and seeking independence), and Darcy (the younger sister, who feels left out).
• Paige’s memoir about raising Emmett becomes a surprise bestseller, and Hollywood comes to adapt it—only for Rob to try and take over the screenplay, triggering family upheaval.
• [10:51] Craig Thomas: "He kind of hijacks the opportunity to be the screenwriter adapting his own wife’s memoir and it almost immediately derails and this feel good movie starts to almost destroy the family it’s about."

2. Autobiographical Roots and Honest Examination

• Thomas shares how his own parenting journey with a child with disabilities shaped the book.
• He describes how the family’s attention naturally centers on the child with special needs, leaving siblings feeling sidelined—a tension captured in the novel.
• [11:41] Craig Thomas: "The child who has a disability just becomes kind of the orbit. And you try so hard to give everybody equal attention..."
• The narrative is told from all four family members’ perspectives, allowing humor and differing recollections of pivotal events.
• The title is echoed throughout as each character believes they are the protagonist of their family's story.
• [12:34] Craig Thomas: "...all four members of a family all think they're the main character in the family. Right? We all think we're the main character of our own story."

3. Blending Comedy and Seriousness

• Despite the subject matter, the novel is funny, notably in scenes where Rob rewrites family events to make himself more heroic in the screenplay.
• [12:34] Craig Thomas: "...he takes a passage…that owns the fact that he was absent a lot...when he takes her memoir and rewrites it into a screenplay, he adds himself into that scene…"
• Thomas acknowledges parallels with his own life, especially the challenges and emotional fallout of trying to support a family while maintaining a demanding entertainment career.
• [14:06] Craig Thomas: "There’s a lot of my life in here... my son was born between year two and three of How I Met Your Mother... I was in this strange position of driving from my home to work to create a sitcom. Then I would drive home into this, like, hour long medical drama that was our lives..."

4. On Disability, "The Cliff," and Hopes for Change

• The book addresses the harsh reality parents face as their children with disabilities reach adulthood and lose institutional support ("the cliff").
• Thomas advocates for more societal compassion and creativity in providing meaningful work for adults with disabilities.
• [16:14] Craig Thomas: "The cliff is very scary. My goal with this book was to write a comedy about the cliff to make it less scary. We do not, as a society, seem to have answered this question—what does an adult life look like with disabilities?"
• Thomas hopes the story will encourage employers and society to see value, individuality, and potential in disabled adults.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• [01:38] Ann Packer: "She says that she would like her closest women friends to be in the house with her, taking care of her during her final days and weeks. And for Eliot to move out..."
• [02:02] Ann Packer: "I didn't mean it as cruel... She's conveying her... dying wish, really."
• [04:07] Ann Packer: "You know it's coming, and you can't control that at all. The idea that you can get a bead on how long you have is very powerful..."
• [05:44] Ann Packer: "There’s something beautiful... in the intimacy and the truth of what this couple and their children and friends get to at the end of the book."
• [10:51] Craig Thomas: "...he kind of hijacks the opportunity to be the screenwriter adapting his own wife’s memoir and it almost immediately derails and this feel good movie starts to almost destroy the family it’s about."
• [12:34] Craig Thomas: "All four members of a family all think they're the main character in the family. Right? We all think we're the main character of our own story."
• [14:06] Craig Thomas: "I was in this strange position of driving from my home to work to create a sitcom. Then I would drive home into this, like, hour long medical drama that was our lives."
• [16:14] Craig Thomas: "My goal with this book was to write a comedy about the cliff to make it less scary. We do not, as a society, seem to have answered this question—what does an adult life look like with disabilities?"

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:09-06:15] – Ann Packer discusses "Some Bright Nowhere" with Mary Louise Kelly
• [06:17-09:05] – Packer on writing gaps, previous essay, and process
• [09:41] – Introduction to Craig Thomas and "That's Not How It Happened"
• [09:59-17:24] – Craig Thomas and Sacha Pfeiffer: life inspiration, family dynamics, career, disability, humor
• [17:24] – Craig Thomas closes with hopes for more inclusive attitudes toward disability

Conclusion

This episode of NPR's Book of the Day showcases how fiction can probe the intensely personal and universally enlightening trials within marriage, caregiving, and family. Packer and Thomas each deliver narratives brimming with empathy, candid admissions, and (in Thomas’s case) humor, all while illuminating issues of illness, disability, and self-discovery.