Revisiting Anne Rice’s ‘Interview with the Vampire’

Summary

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Revisiting Anne Rice’s ‘Interview with the Vampire’

NPR’s Book of the Day
Date: October 25, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbong & BA Parker
Guest: Barry Hardiman (NPR editor and PCHHH panelist)

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Episode Overview

This episode revisits Anne Rice's seminal novel Interview with the Vampire, exploring its lasting impact on literature, culture, and the vampire mythos. The hosts and guest dive into Rice’s world-building, the book’s philosophical and emotional complexity, its groundbreaking place in pop culture, and the ways it continues to influence vampire narratives today. The conversation also touches on the adaptation of Rice’s work in film and TV, questions of literary merit, and the themes of family, grief, and identity threaded throughout the Vampire Chronicles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Sad Boy Vampire: Anne Rice’s Innovation

Timestamps: 00:00–01:21

• Vampires before Rice were “sexy evil monsters”; she made them “philosophical, complex, tortured antiheroes.” (Barry Hardiman, 00:00)
• Rice’s vampires—and particularly Louis—marked a shift to a more melancholic, sensitive depiction, influencing modern vampire archetypes like Angel (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and Edward (Twilight).

“There was no sad boy vampire until Anne Rice...we love a tortured antihero.”
– Barry Hardiman (00:00)

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2. Personal Connections to Rice’s Gothic World

Timestamps: 01:22–04:57

• Barry first encountered Rice in a gothic-laden youth alongside Brontë and du Maurier: “Just a sad girl in a haunted house.” (BA Parker, 01:15)
• The panel discusses the lasting emotional resonance Rice’s books had on their adolescent selves, and the book’s role as a gateway to gothic fiction.
• Barry, on rereading: Found Louis’s brooding to be less affecting, though “everything that made her who she is, and made vampires what they are in popular culture, is in it.”

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3. Vampire Renaissance and Rice’s Cultural Legacy

Timestamps: 04:58–07:06

• The hosts muse on the current vampire “moment” in media, inspired by everything from new books (Stephen Graham Jones) to TV (AMC’s Interview with the Vampire) and Twilight nostalgia.
• Discussion of how Interview with the Vampire has become a “central text” for contemporary perceptions of vampires—erotic, existential, complex.

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4. Comparing Book and Adaptations

Timestamps: 07:07–09:00

• BA Parker’s main context for the series is the recent AMC TV show, which they praise for being “sexy, hot, romantic, violent.” (BA Parker, 05:14)
• The New Orleans setting—both literary and real—heightens the gothic atmosphere. Parker describes visiting show locations in the city, highlighting the book’s connection to place.

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5. Anne Rice: Biography & Creation of Claudia

Timestamps: 08:07–10:11

• Anne Rice (born Howard Allen Francis, 1941) wrote Interview with the Vampire after the death of her five-year-old daughter, Michelle. Claudia can be read as an embodiment of this grief.
• New Orleans’ “spooky” atmosphere deeply influenced the setting and sensibility of the book.

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6. Vampires, Eroticism, and Rice’s Mark on Pop Culture

Timestamps: 09:33–11:13

• Archival interview: Rice claims the “vampire is inherently an erotic image,” connecting this to the lost tradition of sensuous gods (Anne Rice, 09:40).
• The panel credits Rice with crystallizing the vampire as a tragic, erotic figure. While Dracula had sexual undertones, Rice “cemented that perception.”

“She made them, like, philosophical, complex, tortured antiheroes. And I mean, we love a tortured antihero.”
– Barry Hardiman (11:12)

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7. From ‘Interview’ to ‘Twilight’: Evolving Vampire Archetypes

Timestamps: 11:14–12:39

• “No Angel from Buffy, no Edward from Twilight” without Rice’s sensitive vampires.
• The panel critiques Twilight for its moralizing and dubious racial politics, while noting Rice’s books tackle different, thorny issues (like Louis being a slave-owner, which is omitted in the TV show).

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8. Sex, Romance, and Liberation

Timestamps: 12:39–15:23

• Despite limited explicit sex, the book is seen as “hornier than what counts as quote, unquote, spicy today.” (Andrew Limbong, 14:03)
• The hosts contrast modern romantasy’s action-centric sex scenes with Rice’s slow-burn, simmering tension.
• Rice’s erotica explored freedom—be it sexual, existential, or vampiric.

“Freedom because you're a blood sucking monster that has immortality...freedom because you have given up responsibility in your sexual life.”
– Barry Hardiman (15:11)

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9. Philosophy and the Limits of Immortality

Timestamps: 15:44–18:32

• The group discusses vampirism as both liberation and existential curse: “Louis is very much like, this is what I thought it was gonna be, and this is actually the reality of it...painful, very existential, boring.” (BA Parker, 16:04)
• Louis’ passivity explored; his narrative is more about the “worst parts of humans” than the supernatural.
• Lestat/Louis debates embody clashing approaches to immortality and morality.

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10. Dysfunctional (Undead) Family & Processing Grief

Timestamps: 19:55–24:22

• A striking motif is “girl dad energy”: Louis, Claudia, Lestat as a dysfunctional family (Andrew Limbong, 19:55; Barry Hardiman, 21:21).
• Claudia’s eternally stunted condition symbolizes both the trauma of grief and the trap of immortality.
• The book becomes a vehicle for Rice to process personal loss—her daughter, her mother (who struggled with addiction).
• The panel links character arcs to Rice’s lived experience, adding layers of parent-child dynamics.

“These books are cheaper than therapy.”
– BA Parker (24:22)

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11. Anne Rice’s Literary Place

Timestamps: 24:41–27:15

• Where does Rice fit in the “literary landscape”? Panel sees her as a “Stephen King or Danielle Steele”: mass-market, but culturally formative.
• Her impact is summed up: “She made a universe that people love...a work of gothic fiction that experimented with good and evil and sex power dynamics.” (Barry Hardiman, 25:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Interview is world building all these years now.”
  – Barry Hardiman (25:08)

• “I think that she does kind of create this more the sensitive vampire in an interesting way.”
  – BA Parker (11:21)

• “If you love Romantasy...the Carissa Broadbent series is great and the sex is wonderful. Wait, I wanna say that in a different way.”
  – Barry Hardiman (30:28)

• “If you’re reading Interview with the Vampire and all of your empathy and heart goes towards Claudia, I highly suggest you read Fledgling, by Octavia Butler...”
  – BA Parker (31:07)

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Listener Reflections

Timestamps: 32:42–33:48

• Listeners discuss the psychological toll of immortality and Rice’s knack for creating “tragically heroic” characters in magical settings.

“Everything changes, everything dies, and yet there’s this one being in the world that remains unchanging and how does it affect that person psychologically?”
– Leslie (Listener, 32:42)

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Recommendations

Timestamps: 29:37–32:31

• Vampires as disease: The Passage (Justin Cronin)
• Romantasy: Carissa Broadbent’s Crowns of Nyaxia series; Meredith Anne Pierce’s Darkangel trilogy (YA); Bunnicula for younger readers
• Classic horror: Salem’s Lot (Stephen King)
• Claudia-inspired: Fledgling (Octavia Butler) — “if Claudia had more agency”
• Brooding moral dilemmas: Tender as the Flesh (Agostina Bazterica)

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Is Interview with the Vampire Worth Reading Now?

Timestamps: 28:40–29:37

• Barry initially came in “nay,” but changed her mind during the discussion, seeing value in its themes and as a companion to contemporary adaptations.
• Andrew: “I think I like this book quite a bit. I thought it was so much fun.”
• Parker: “I respect it for what it was and what it is.”

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Final Thoughts

• Interview with the Vampire is recognized for its enduring influence on gothic and vampire fiction, especially in making vampires complex, emotional, and philosophically fraught.
• Modern adaptations and new vampire stories continue to draw on Rice’s innovations, even as they adjust or address some of the original’s limitations.
• The book resonates for its tangled family dynamics, exploration of grief, and cultural impact—whether read as a period piece, a gothic fantasy, or a meditation on loss.

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For more vampire recommendations and listener input, check out the “Phone a Fan” segment at 32:31.

Transcript

[Barry Hardiman]

There was no sad boy vampire until Anne Rice. They were like sexy evil monsters. But she made them like philosophical, complex, tortured antiheroes. And I mean, we love a tortured antihero.

[Andrew Limbong]

You're listening to books we've loved from npr, the book show where we reread.

[BA Parker]

Old favorites and tell you why they still matter today.

[Andrew Limbong]

I'm Andrew Limbong.

[BA Parker]

And I'm BA Parker.

[Andrew Limbong]

What's up, Parker? How you doing?

[BA Parker]

I'm good, Andrew. How you doing?

[Andrew Limbong]

This book has got me riled up.

[BA Parker]

Tell us more, tell us more.

[Andrew Limbong]

I know, we'll get into it. We'll get into it. Here with us to talk about Interview with the Vampire by the one and only Anne Rice is Barry Hardiman, longtime NPR editor and PCHHH panelist. What's up, Barry? How you doing?

[Barry Hardiman]

I'm good, how are you?

[Andrew Limbong]

Well, you just said I'm riled up.

[BA Parker]

Riled up.

[Andrew Limbong]

I'm riled up. You've read this book before? Oh, yeah. Are you a Rice head?

[Barry Hardiman]

So, no, I discovered Anne Rice on my parents bookshelf. Like we had a book club copy of Queen of the Damned and everybody said that it was gonna be sexy. So I read it and it was like not that sexy, you know? So like in my like middle school, high school experience, it was very much part of a sort of a gothic moment for me. Bronte, Daphne du Maurier. So it was of a piece for me.

[BA Parker]

Yeah, Just a sad girl in a haunted house.

[Barry Hardiman]

Yeah, Yearning.

[BA Parker]

That's me.

[Barry Hardiman]

I was a sad girl in a haunted house, kid.

[BA Parker]

Love it.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah. All for folks who haven't read it. I'm just going to run through a very brief synopsis and just a disclaimer for this episode, this book, and therefore our conversation will discuss sex. But. So this book is structured around a journalist interviewing a vampire. The vampire in question is named Louis, who goes through how he became a vampire. And a lot of it is centered around his relationship with a vampire named Lestat, who is the one who turned him, as well as Claudia, the five year old girl vampire that they take care of. And this family dynamic is happy for a bit, but it doesn't last long. I'm gonna yada yada over some of the spoilers, but it does end up with Louis pretty much on his own.

[BA Parker]

All right, now, Andrew, why did you pick this?

[Andrew Limbong]

Okay. I feel like we're in a vampire era currently. I was reading the Buffalo Hunter X Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones, which is like a horror book that is about vampires, but a very different interpretation of vampires. And I was listening to Stephen Graham Jones do an interview, and he mentioned Anne Rice. Cause he was teaching a class. So I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I think also that same month, I watched Sinners. And then also around then, my editor Megan hit me up and was like, hey, there's a Twilight anniversary coming up. We're entering.

[Barry Hardiman]

And you were like, oh, I have it in my calendar.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah, it's already here. Yeah.

[BA Parker]

Like, is it that time of year already?

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah. You know, the air was getting colder.

[BA Parker]

Right. Saw some leaves in the ground.

[Andrew Limbong]

I was like, it's time Hayley Williams has a new song. You know what I mean? The whole vibe is coming up. The whole thing. And so I was thinking about. I had never read Interview with a Vampire before. I had this sense that it was, like a central text to how we in our common era perceive vampires.

[BA Parker]

Yeah.

[Andrew Limbong]

And I wanted to find out if that was true. And I think it is. I think for a couple reasons, we'll get into later. But I also thought it was really good. I loved it.

[Barry Hardiman]

Oh, I'm so glad.

[Andrew Limbong]

I was munching through this whole thing. I was like, okay, you're making a face. Parker. What are you. Did you not like it?

[BA Parker]

I liked moments. I liked glimpses. I liked the first part. It felt like a cohesive story, a narrative, and then it gets away from us. I think she, like, personally bit off a little bit more than she could chew, but she was also processing a lot, so I respect the journey.

[Barry Hardiman]

I mean, I guess I'm the only one who encountered this for a second time.

[BA Parker]

Oh, yeah.

[Barry Hardiman]

And I was like, oh, God, I love this book.

[BA Parker]

I can't wait.

[Barry Hardiman]

And then I was like, oh. Oh. Oh, God. Okay, Louis. All right. Okay. You're just sad. You're sad.

[Andrew Limbong]

Wait, how old are you? Are you.

[Barry Hardiman]

I was like, excuse me. Let me put it this way. This book came out in 1976, which was the year I, too, was made. But I will say that I thought they were awesome. And I was feeling myself and discovering eyeliner. And so now I'm just like, oh, boy, Louis, we get it. You don't eat humans. You eat animals. You're that girl. We get it. We get it.

[BA Parker]

We get it.

[Barry Hardiman]

You're sad, boy. Sad, boy. I had a lot of problems with Louis. However, I kind of went on to read the next two, which I do remember loving. The first one, as I said I encountered, was Queen of the Damned. And there are other books in this insane, epic bunch of books.

[BA Parker]

Universe.

[Barry Hardiman]

Universe. Universe. That are you know, and mainly the thing with the vampire is it's world building. And if you're interested in the world, great, you know, and that's fine with me. But I don't think it is the strongest of her work. But everything that made her who she is and that made vampires in the popular culture what they are, everything is in it.

[Andrew Limbong]

Well, speaking of the world building, AMC is doing a bang up job building out the Anne Rice universe on tv. The Interview with the Vampire show has gotten really great reviews. I checked out a couple episodes.

[BA Parker]

It's excellent.

[Andrew Limbong]

It's also very, very graphic. I don't. I'm like clutching my pearls. Finally.

[Barry Hardiman]

I've been looking for that.

[Andrew Limbong]

Wait, okay. Have you not seen it?

[Barry Hardiman]

No.

[BA Parker]

It's sexy, it's hot, it's romantic, it's violent. Yes. It's got all of the things that, that I will say. My main context for Interview the Vampire. I mean I'd seen the like the Neil Jordan, like Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt movie.

[Andrew Limbong]

Have you said your goodbyes to the light?

[BA Parker]

But my main context is the TV show. What rage you must feel is a.

[Barry Hardiman]

Choke in your sorrow.

[BA Parker]

The first time I laid eyes on.

[Andrew Limbong]

You, your beautiful face, I saw that sorrow.

[Barry Hardiman]

I did not know how it got.

[BA Parker]

There or why it was so voluminous.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I can take away that sorrow, Louis.

[BA Parker]

Like I love the show so much that last year I went to New Orleans on a vacation and like I walked around the French Quarter and looked at spots that were mentioned on the show. Like I'm sitting on these steps, like I'm on the Mississippi looking out at Algiers. The only reason this exists, cause of Interview with the Vampire.

[Barry Hardiman]

Right?

[BA Parker]

And then I found, like I read the book after having this great experience now and I'm like, oh, I'm like, there was some heavy lifting was made personally for me. The TV show that when I got back to like the source material, I was like, I like the pieces that were kept.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yes.

[BA Parker]

Yep.

[Barry Hardiman]

Yep.

[Andrew Limbong]

With that, I want to take a quick break and then we'll head into some of the sort of cultural import of Interview with the Vampire. We'll be right back.

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[Andrew Limbong]

We're back. Before the break, we talked about some of our personal connections to Interview with a Vampire. And I want to make my sort of cultural case for the book. But let's just run through some quick bio for Anne Rice, born Howard Allen Francis in 1941. She apparently chose the name Anne, which is a choice, a decision, a decision to. With an E. Yeah, I think that's solid.

[BA Parker]

Yeah, I'm still pro Howard. I'm still pro girl Howard.

[Barry Hardiman]

Yeah, I mean Parker and Barry are pro that, to be clear.

[Andrew Limbong]

And then in 1972, Anne's five year old daughter Michelle died of leukemia. And this was I think kind of instrumental in the creation of this book. I think you can read a lot into the character of Claudia who's like I said, the five year old vampire girl who's sort of like encased in amber in the loss of her child. Rice was born and raised in New Orleans, which is 11 spooky stuff going on. Spooky, spooky stuff going on in there. And yeah, I guess like what Udra said, this book was published in 76, so we're dealing with, you know, everything that that has to offer post Vietnam that whatever, whatever was going on in America at the time. All of that. That's a, that's a different Ken Burns documentary, I want to say. In the 80s she was on NPR promoting the vampire Lestat and she did this interview. And I just want to play this question and answer.

[Barry Hardiman]

Why is there this erotic allure of the vampire in your books and in so much of the vampire stories?

[Anne Rice (Interview Clip)]

Well, I think the vampire is inherently an erotic image. I suspect that it's an echo, an echo down through the centuries of the old lusty gods that are all gone. I mean, religion for thousands of years included passionate, sensuous gods and goddesses and we don't have them now. They're gone from our tradition. But the vampire lingers in the popular imagination. This, you know, this mythical creature that seduces you, puts his arms around you, bends and kisses your throat and kills you. But there's great rapture, you know, it's very sensuous.

[Andrew Limbong]

There's great rapture.

[BA Parker]

It's very sensuous talk that talk. Anne.

[Andrew Limbong]

Here's my thinking is that, like, it didn't have to be that way. Right. We could have had this perception of a vampire that was, like, more gross, more grody, less horny. Right. But because she saw inherent eroticism in the story of the vampire. We've sort of been living with, like the horny vampire since this book came out, sort of permanently. Like Dracula. No, I know, I know.

[Barry Hardiman]

Dracula is so dirty.

[Andrew Limbong]

Guys, I'm saying she, like. She was like. She took that and was like, this is it. She sort of steered the car. Dracula's horned up. I think she just, like, cemented that perception.

[Barry Hardiman]

I think for me, I would say, more important, as importantly, what she did is she gave. Like, there was no sad boy vampire until Anne Rice. There was no. They were like sexy, evil monsters. But she made them, like philosophical complex, tortured antiheroes. And, I mean, we love a tortured antihero.

[Andrew Limbong]

There's no angel from Joss Whedon's Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[BA Parker]

There's no, I don't know, Virtue signaling. Emo boy.

[Barry Hardiman]

Exactly.

[BA Parker]

Yeah. I think that she does kind of create this more the sensitive vampire in an interesting way. I don't know.

[Barry Hardiman]

He wants to bite you, but he can't.

[BA Parker]

At a certain point, just do it.

[Barry Hardiman]

You don't get Edward, I think. I mean, is maybe more importantly right.

[BA Parker]

Yeah. Edward being the vampire from Twilight.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah. I'm sort of like out of my death in Twilight. So he was like a sad boy.

[Barry Hardiman]

Yeah. How old are you?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

17.

[Barry Hardiman]

How long have you been 17?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

A while.

[BA Parker]

He was a sad boy.

[Andrew Limbong]

Who.

[BA Parker]

They like the vampires in Twilight, which. Okay.

[Andrew Limbong]

Does he. Does Edward eat people?

[BA Parker]

No, he's like a vegetarian. He shimmers in the sunlight. It's like a whole thing. Sadly enough, I did read all of those books when they came out.

[Barry Hardiman]

I want to be part of the discourse.

[BA Parker]

It was a different time. Robert Pattinson had just been created. And I was like, I'm going to read all these books. And I was like, oh, these books are. There's a lot of, like, you know, pseudo racist. Very also conservative.

[Barry Hardiman]

Sex is bad for you.

[BA Parker]

Sex is bad.

[Barry Hardiman]

Girls don't have sex. Don't have a baby. Don't do anything fun.

[BA Parker]

The hottest girl isn't like a maxi khaki skirt.

[Barry Hardiman]

Oh, I know. It's a very. Yep.

[BA Parker]

Indigenous people are somehow like beasts. And it's like, oh, this isn't. Yeah. Great. I will give Anne Rice that credit. She's not doing that in this. I mean, we've had different problems with like, you know, the whole slave owner situation.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah, yeah.

[BA Parker]

In the book, which if you don't, like, if you haven't read the book, they. Louis is like, owns a plantation and has a bunch of slaves, which is like, I don't know what it is about that era of the 70s that was really into the antebellum South. I can feel like some like 14 year old girl that's gonna read this now and like, try to cancel people and be like, I can't believe Louis owns slaves. And I'm like, you know what? Valid.

[Andrew Limbong]

Something that they left behind in the TV show.

[BA Parker]

He's like, oh, now he's black, but also he's like a pimp.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah. He owns like a whorehouse.

[BA Parker]

He owns a brothel. He's a businessman. Right. But yeah, I feel like some young girl who wants to see some, like, some boys love on each other is gonna read this book and be like, this is not what I was. I've been sold a false bowl of goods. I don't understand what this book is about.

[Barry Hardiman]

I thought there was gonna be smooth boys kissing. Nope.

[BA Parker]

Boys kissin'. That's what even grown Parker is like. I thought the boys would kiss and it's like, no.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah.

[Barry Hardiman]

In retrospect, I was disappointed too.

[Andrew Limbong]

Okay. I will say though, this is my second sort of like, pro for this book.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It does.

[Andrew Limbong]

And why I was so jazzed earlier compared to contemporary romance, which I've tried my best to sort of keep up with. I think even though there is no actual smooching, nothing's getting touched or whatever. This is hornier than what counts as quote, unquote, like, spicy Today. I feel like, I don't know, read.

[BA Parker]

Those first couple of Outlander books.

[Barry Hardiman]

But also, I mean, read any Romantasy at all.

[Andrew Limbong]

Well, yeah. Well, that's what I think. The Romantasy is based around the sex as action set piece. Right.

[BA Parker]

Yeah.

[Andrew Limbong]

And it delivers them here. But the ones that I've read. Right. Don't do the simmering as well. They'll explode.

[BA Parker]

Andrew, you've gotta open your heart.

[Barry Hardiman]

Yeah.

[Andrew Limbong]

Listen, I've read a lot more books about minotaurs and monsters doing stuff for My job than I thought I would support public media.

[Barry Hardiman]

Okay, listen, do that however you need to.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah. Cause I didn't even be reading these books. But they're somewhat gratuitous. They're like titillating, but they're not.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I agree.

[Andrew Limbong]

Erotic.

[Barry Hardiman]

I hear you. I do.

[Andrew Limbong]

She wrote erotica.

[Barry Hardiman]

Garden variety bdsm. You know, here's the thing. They're not even very interesting bdsm. There's just a ton of spanking. But in any case, she was exploring a lot of different modes of freedom.

[BA Parker]

Right?

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah.

[Barry Hardiman]

Freedom because you're a blood sucking monster that has immortality. Freedom because you have, like, given up responsibility in your sexual life. Freedom because you have written Exit to Eden and had no one edit it. Whatever the freedom is. You know, she is clearly exploring all of that and was really productive. I mean, she's like a really prolific writer, right?

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah. I mean, well, that's sort of the theme of this book. Right. It's like vampiry as liberation. Right? Is that.

[BA Parker]

I mean, it's yes and no. Because there's this. Louis is very much like, this is what I thought it was gonna be. And this is actually the reality of it is it's painful. It's very existential.

[Barry Hardiman]

It's boring.

[BA Parker]

It's boring. And he tells this entire story hoping to deter from the idea of vampirism. And the boy, the journalist, is immediately like, okay, well, how do I become a vampire? Can get his address? Where is Lestat? How can I make this happen for me? And so I. I know that as a narrative construct, it's to, like, lead to the next book.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah.

[BA Parker]

But it's also like this idea of he thought that he was doing, like a psa. This whole book is a PSA of like, vampirism. Being a vampire is not all it's cracked up to be. And I don't know if I would do it again if I had the choice.

[Barry Hardiman]

I mean, it doesn't seem like he would do anything again if he had the choice. The V is very passive. But I think one of the things that's sort of interesting about his particular dislike of this freedom or whatever is that she is more using the idea of the vampire to examine the worst parts of humans as opposed to exploring the loss of humanity as a result of being a monster. That's a kind of interesting idea to play with. Right.

[BA Parker]

One of the segments that I found really interesting in the book is there's this debate that's happening between Lestat and Louisiana where Lestat is calling Louis out And being like, you're sacrificing being a vampire to basically to lean in toward this human mindset. And Louis's like, no, becoming a vampire has made me more in touch with humans. And this is back and forth. And that was the only time that I was like, you know what, Louis, you're onto something, right?

[Barry Hardiman]

You had to become a vampire to notice that you owned slaves.

[BA Parker]

Yeah, that'll do it. That'll do.

[Barry Hardiman]

Is weird though, right? You know, it's like he's suddenly so good cause he's a vampire. It's like you did not notice what your human life was about.

[BA Parker]

No, I had to only come out at night for that to finally click.

[Barry Hardiman]

Right. It's tough. It's tough. But it's also. I mean, that is the thing, right? About the whole myth in general is like, what are you gonna do with your time? And Louis is gonna not do much. Lestat's doing something with it. Right. Angel is trying to, you know, from other sad boy, vampires are trying to apologize for their sins, they're trying to redo, they're trying to make up for the things they did. But she really gave us that dichotomy in a way that was more so than any other, I think, up until that point.

[BA Parker]

Essentially, this book spans 200 years of a life. And it's like, well, what has Louis done with it? Is the question that I had at the end. Meanwhile, Lestat is out here. Like, I went to see Queen of the Damned as a kid, so I essentially know what Lestat's been up to.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah.

[BA Parker]

But my thinking the whole time, like, well, now what? So what are you going to do? And I feel like no one has asked him that. And I'm sure whatever, like 12, 13, 14, 15, a million books that have come out. Does that get answered?

[Andrew Limbong]

All right, I want to put a pit in that. I'm going to take a quick break because I have some thoughts about what Louis learned. But we'll be back in a bit.

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[Andrew Limbong]

All right, we're back. One bit about this book that I didn't expect. Right. I knew going in it was going to be a horny kind of queer vampire book. It's an all timer girl dad book. You know, say more as a girl dad. I hate that term, but just stick with me. There's this transformation where like Parker, like you'd mentioned, he's very. All right, Claudia, I'll let you do whatever. Spoilers for the middle of the book. You're gonna kill Lasat? I don't think it's a good idea, but sure, whatever you want, princess.

[BA Parker]

You know, how else will she learn?

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah, sort of that kind of vibe, right. And then in the middle or towards the end of the book when they're in Paris, when they meet Armand, who's like leading this Parisian vampire troupe or whatever. Right. I think before Louis and Armand sort of define their relationship and like start clicking with each other, there's this moment where Lestat realizes that Claudia and Armand are into something deeper than Louis is. Right. They don't have whatever hang up that Louis has about killing people. And he realizes that this, for lack of a better term, this daughter of his has learned something and is different from him. And I think in that moment, kind of like accepts that and, you know, has to like let her go. And the things happen at the end that sort of like deviate from that. But I thought that was like an oddly profound and beautiful moment.

[Barry Hardiman]

It's lovely. I agree with you. I think there's that moment where it's like, okay, this happens with your kids. Like, oh, your values are your own, you know, like you own them. And I agree, like, I love that. And. But just to even take it further, when they go to Paris and Armand comes on the scene, this sort of like, oh, no, Daddy's got a new boyfriend. Part of it is really heartbreaking because, you know, Armand is secretly telepathically saying, you gotta leave Louis. Gotta leave my boy alone. And that is like, is actually really heartbreaking. And so the sort of the family ness of that and that, I agree with you, is one of the strongest. The dysfunctional family stuff I think may be the strongest allegory of the book.

[Andrew Limbong]

And there's also the sex stuff too, where Claudia is trapped in the body of a five year old girl and she grows up or she ages and she knows that she is is in the body of a child and she's frustrated with it. And Louie's like, here's another doll.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right?

[Barry Hardiman]

Right.

[BA Parker]

Like my guy.

[Barry Hardiman]

Right?

[Anne Rice (Interview Clip)]

Exactly.

[Andrew Limbong]

How much older did they make Claudia in the show?

[BA Parker]

14. It ain't much.

[Barry Hardiman]

I mean, it's enough.

[Andrew Limbong]

I mean, it's significant.

[BA Parker]

It's enough that, like, maybe it's less icky.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah.

[Barry Hardiman]

It's still illegal.

[Andrew Limbong]

It's still illegal because in the movie, Kirsten Dunst is like a child, like.

[Barry Hardiman]

11 years old, and they're clearly struggling with that.

[BA Parker]

Yeah. And there's like, there's some couple of kisses in the movie that was like, eat it. No, thank you. But there's still. Even in the book, it's like, I understand the girl dad stuff, but, like, her two dads kind of suck.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[BA Parker]

And they realize too late that they have, like, for decades have mistreated this girl. It's basically like, we had a kid to save the marriage, and then we just kind of like, you know, treated her like an obstacle this whole time. And now that she, like the ending scene when they kind of, like, come together and realize they were, like, bad parents.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah.

[BA Parker]

Not bad. Or like, they maybe not bad parents.

[Andrew Limbong]

We can say they're bad parents.

[BA Parker]

But then there's a part of me that's like, this is Anne Rice trying to process, in a way, like, the grief of losing her daughter. And is Anne Rice Louis. And she's trying to make amends for what happened to her child. And, like, in some ways is her, like, her husband, Lestat. And they're trying to just, like, unpack the loss and, like, whether the responsibilities as parents or, like, things they couldn't control.

[Barry Hardiman]

Well, also, remember, her mother was an alcoholic. So she is also Ann Rice's mom. Yes. Beloved mother. Very close. But, you know, she was also trying to sort of talk about difficult parents, trying to do the best under circumstances that may be out of their control.

[BA Parker]

Yeah.

[Barry Hardiman]

You know, and that is actually another, you know, I mean, she does this in so many ways. Later on, when Lestat is able to save his mother by making her a vampire is another way that she's processing the grief of losing her own mother. She uses this for so many different sort of parent child relationships.

[BA Parker]

I tell you. I guess these books are cheaper than therapy. Like, it's like, this is nice.

[Barry Hardiman]

But what you're describing with the show is taking all of those things, the parenthood, the whatever. But now sort of we've, like, done it in the context of power and social position. And, you know, they took her little seed and they grew it into a beautiful flower.

[Andrew Limbong]

As a fan of, like, the books. Right. The book series, do these themes sort of persist throughout? Like in. I know, in the vampire Lestat, he's like a rock star. But is he also, like, an absent father? Like, what's the.

[Barry Hardiman]

Like, he's really fun. I mean, Lestat is the best narrator that she has, and she liked him the best. I mean, she says this in, like, a lot of. You know.

[BA Parker]

I get it.

[Barry Hardiman]

I get it. You know, there are a lot of books that are slow in this series when it intersects with the Mave Affair Witches, which is her other series. Some of them are good, some of them are not. But the first four, which are really the sort of list out ones, and those ones are really, really fun. Cause he's actually, like, playing with the idea of, you know, being, like, liberated, truly, as opposed to just being sad. Yeah, they get better. They really do. Interview is world building all these years now.

[Andrew Limbong]

How do we think about Anne Rice's sort of, like, literary stature? Is she Stephen King in that sort of genre? I don't think that we think of her in placing this, and I hate using this term in a sort of, like, literary landscape. Right. She's definitely writing, like, pulp or something like that.

[BA Parker]

Yeah.

[Barry Hardiman]

It's popular fiction.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah.

[Barry Hardiman]

I mean, here's the thing. I think what she has done, I don't want to take away the fact that she has written. She made a universe that people absolutely love. And she made a work of gothic fiction that experimented with good and evil and sex power dynamics. And that is real. So I don't want to take away. But I also, you know, when you talk about Stephen King, who I absolutely consider literary in some ways, you know, she was, you know. Yes, she is a Stephen King. She is a Daniel Steele who is also part of popular fiction. She a Dan Brown, you know, who brought ideas, ideas about religion and ideas about death and ideas about sex into the mainstream. And people had a place to go for that that they didn't.

[BA Parker]

Yeah. I feel like, for me, she rests comfortably between, like, VC Andrews and Stephen King. There is, I think of, like, my mom in the supermarket. Like, I'm gonna grab, like, VC Andrews dawn from, like, by the MMs. And then we're going to. I'm gonna read that. And then you're not allowed until you're an adult. Then I sneak and read it.

[Barry Hardiman]

Right.

[BA Parker]

And that's where I feel like Anne Rice lives in my brain.

[Barry Hardiman]

I think Anne Rice is in a different category, you know. You know, you're dealing with partly because they're not directed, you know, BE Sanders was directed at young girls. Right?

[BA Parker]

That's right.

[Barry Hardiman]

This is directed at a wider array of humanity, which is another thing about it.

[Andrew Limbong]

That's great, actually. All right, we're gonna take another break, but when we're back, we're going to talk about why Interview with the Vampire should be read today. Stick around.

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[Andrew Limbong]

All right, last question. Barry, do you think this book is worth reading today?

[Barry Hardiman]

I should say now that we've talked about it, I feel a little bit differently because I in normal.

[Andrew Limbong]

Were you nay coming into the studio?

[Barry Hardiman]

I was nay coming into the studio. You know, like, you don't need to. You need to know that it exists. It's good that it's part of the popular culture. It's great that it was written. But I actually, you know, as we've talked about it in particular, your Girl dad observation, I will say, is one that I think is really interesting. And I also think that given there is apparently an incredibly high quality, wonderful series that is taking some of these ideas and improving them, I think as a companion to how far we've come, I think that might be an interesting project.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah, I'm, I think I like this book quite a bit. I thought it was so much fun.

[Barry Hardiman]

That you liked it.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yep. Love it.

[BA Parker]

I mean, I respect it for what it was and what it is.

[Andrew Limbong]

Okay, nice. I think that's fair. That's diplomatic.

[Anne Rice (Interview Clip)]

That's nice.

[Andrew Limbong]

All right, let's end with if you like this. Read that. Do you guys have any.

[Barry Hardiman]

So a couple different things. So we talked about how the idea of the myth of the vampire does a couple different things. And so if you want to get to vampires as harbingers of disease, which that's part of the birth of the idea of the Vampire. I would say the Passage and the subsequent books by Justin Cronin are great. And that's a very set in today's world. There's no mention of what a vampire. But the virus makes you a bloodsucker. It sort of treads on a zombie thing. So if that's something that you're interested in, I would go the Passage. I think it's great. If you love Romantasy, you know, like, you're coming from Sarah J. Maas, you're coming from Fourth Wing, Crowns of Nyaxia. The Carissa Broadbent series is great and the sex is wonderful. Wait, I wanna say that in a different way. I wanna come back to that.

[BA Parker]

She said what she said, if you.

[Barry Hardiman]

Love Romantasy, the Meredith Anne Pierce series, the Dark angel. And this is, by the way, I would say absolutely appropriate for 14. 15 is so good. And the Dark angel is essentially a vampire character. He is. It's a wonderful trilogy. If you are in middle school. Bunnicula.

[Andrew Limbong]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Barry Hardiman]

If you like Stephen King, Salem's Lot. Listen, you cannot get away from the vampire studio.

[Andrew Limbong]

We're in vampire mode.

[BA Parker]

I love it.

[Barry Hardiman]

I love it. I got you.

[Andrew Limbong]

Nice.

[Barry Hardiman]

I do.

[BA Parker]

I only got one.

[Barry Hardiman]

I know, but I happen to know you have the best one.

[BA Parker]

That's true. I do have the best one. Okay. If you're reading Interview with the Vampire and all of your empathy and heart goes towards Claudia, I highly suggest you read Fledgling, by Octavia Butler, which is about, like a young vampire. Turns out she's like 50 something, and it's like a specific, like, genetic vampire species. And she's trying to, like, figure out who she is and, like, why are people against her? It's like if Claudia had more agency.

[Barry Hardiman]

Yes.

[BA Parker]

So I would highly. That's. I would highly recommend reading Fledgling by Octavia Butler.

[Andrew Limbong]

So mine is Agostina Bazterica's Tender as the Flesh. It was big. It popped off. You know, it was just translated and thinking like, 2020. And it popped off here. It's about a cannibalism world where they're using, like, people as meat. And it's about a guy who works in a slaughterhouse. And I think it's. If you like, which I don't think either of you are. If you like the part of this book that's like, I'm bad. Am I bad? Is what I'm doing, guys. Is what I'm doing wrong. Is this, you know, sort of that sort of like, brooding male character, I think is the book for you. All right. Well, Barry, thank you so much. This was tons of fun.

[Barry Hardiman]

It really was.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah. And now's the time for our favorite segment, phone a Fan, where we'll hear from fans far and wide this week.

[BA Parker]

We ask you, our dear listeners and readers, why you think vampires haven't left our culture and why this story. Here's what y' all said.

[Listener/Caller]

Hi, this is Leslie calling. I first read the Anne Rice book's Interview with the Vampire series when I was 19. And the thing that really intrigued me was the psychological impact of living forever and the concept that everything changes, everything dies, and yet there's this one being in the world that we may unchanging and how does it affect that person psychologically? And it's also the concept that we live in this world that's normal and crazy, but underneath it is an alternate world with beings that live just under the surface. My name is Paul Frankel. I live in Memphis, Tennessee. I probably first read Anne Rice in the late 70s. But why has the interview with the vampire endured? I mean, the characters are tragically heroic in some ways. They have great adventures in a magical city like New Orleans. Anne Rice is a great storyteller about these flawed people fighting good and evil inclinations and being supremely cool.

[Andrew Limbong]

And if you're reading along with us this season, tell us your thoughts. You can give us a ring at 202-403-0377 or drop us a line at booklovpr.org you might hear yourself on an upcoming episode. And that's the show. This episode was produced by Cher Vincent and edited by Megan Sullivan.

[BA Parker]

Engineering support this week from Jimmy Keeley. And our executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni.

[Andrew Limbong]

And if you like what you heard, please give us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to help more folks find the show. Thank you for listening to books we've loved from npr. We'll see you next time.

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