Episode Overview

Podcast: NPR’s Book of the Day
Episode: 'The Devil Is a Southpaw' is a Story Within a Story — or So Its Narrator Says
Host: Scott Simon (NPR)
Guest: Brandon Hobson (Author)
Date: December 3, 2025

This episode features an interview with Brandon Hobson, National Book Award finalist and author of The Devil Is a Southpaw. The conversation explores Hobson's layered narrative—about unreliable narration, artistic envy, the trauma of incarceration, and playful literary experimentation. Listeners get insights into the novel's construction, character development, and evocative setting, with a focus on the interplay of language and structure over plot.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Writing and Narration (00:02–02:21)

• Host Introduction:
  Andrew Limbong notes that sometimes complex, twisty prose is an “attempt to create art," but for some writers, such as Hobson's character Milton, it's also "a defense mechanism... when writing simply feels too honest, too vulnerable."
• Unreliable Narrator:
  Hobson describes Milton, the protagonist, as "not the most reliable of narrators," using elevated, challenging prose to both impress and shield himself.

  "First of all, Milton's sanity is questionable. I think he's a very unreliable narrator. He tries to manipulate the reader by using long sentences and difficult vocabulary and obscure language as an attempt to write a heavy literary work."
  (Brandon Hobson, 02:21)

2. Rivalry, Envy, and Artistic Struggle (02:01–03:04)

• Milton envies Matthew, his childhood rival from juvenile detention, because Matthew’s artistic and literary talents are recognized in ways Milton's are not.

  "They're both artists and they're both writers, and Matthew's had a level of success that Milton was never able to achieve."
  (Brandon Hobson, 02:32)

3. Fiction, Trauma, and Memory (03:04–04:27)

• The Past Revisited:
  The two boys meet in an Oklahoma juvenile facility, allegedly for a "school shooting" attempt, though this claim is later revealed as unreliable.

  "He tells us, first of all in part one, that it was an attempt at a school shooting. And we later find out... that it wasn't that at all."
  (Brandon Hobson, 03:06)

• Reality vs. Fiction:
  Hobson draws from his own experience working with incarcerated youth, noting the "lingering trauma from being locked up," which he weaves into the book’s emotional landscape.

4. Vivid Descriptions and Literary Techniques (03:47–05:04)

• Sample Reading:
  Hobson reads a poetic passage about the boys’ first night in detention, exemplifying the book’s lush, evocative language:

  "The first night, we were too afraid to fall asleep... a stream of hazy light slanted in from the narrow and soulless windows... how we imagine such a light as a symbol of hope... abandoned as we were in our solitary rooms."
  (Brandon Hobson, reading, 03:47)

• Author’s Interpretation:
  Hobson discusses why his character’s descriptions are stylized, explaining,

  "A big part of this was he uses an exaggerated vocabulary, obscure language, and these kind of poetic descriptions... serious art is where complex and difficult questions are made human and uncomfortable."
  (Brandon Hobson, 04:27)

5. Setting and Atmosphere—Oklahoma (05:04–05:57)

• Oklahoma as Character:
  The harsh, desolate elements of Oklahoma set the mood, capturing both beauty and bleakness, especially within the juvenile detention environment:

  "Oklahoma is really a strange place... I wanted to make that setting very dark and desolate."
  (Brandon Hobson, 05:22)

6. Surrealism, Doppelgangers, and Playfulness (05:57–06:49)

• Unexpected Characters:
  Hobson uses celebrity doppelgangers and playful references (e.g., Salvador Dali discussing Duran Duran) to inject surrealism and fun amid serious themes.
• Literary Influences:

  "Those are the kinds of novels that really brought me to writing, were books that were challenging and fun."
  (Brandon Hobson, 06:49)

7. Autobiographical Elements and Minor Characters (06:49–07:41)

• Brandon H. in the Novel:
  A minor character shares the author’s name, feigning illness and serving as a meta-narrative nod—but Hobson is coy about direct autobiographical intent:

  "I'm not gonna say that it's me, but it is a Brandon H."
  (Brandon Hobson, 07:24)

8. Writing Process and Structure (07:41–08:59)

• Organic Writing:
  Hobson likens writing fiction to a mystical, improvisatory process, emphasizing language and thematic exploration over rigid plot:

  "There's something magical that happens when someone sits down to write... Time just seems to fly and doors open. A lot of those doors that you enter aren't always the right doors, which is why revision is so important and rewriting."
  (Brandon Hobson, 07:55) "I'm not a plot-heavy writer. And I don't think literary fiction is really designed to be heavy in plot. It's much more interesting to pay attention to language and structure."
  (Brandon Hobson, 08:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Unreliable Narration and Artistic Anxiety:

  "He tries to manipulate the reader by using long sentences and difficult vocabulary and obscure language..."
  (Brandon Hobson, 02:21)

• On the Desolation of Oklahoma:

  "Parts of it can also be very flat and desolate... I wanted to make that setting very dark and desolate."
  (Brandon Hobson, 05:22)

• On Writing as a Mystical, Exploratory Act:

  "It's a kind of mystical experience, maybe much in the way that prayer can be... Time just seems to fly and doors open."
  (Brandon Hobson, 07:55)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02 — Opening reflections on prose style and vulnerability (Andrew Limbong)
• 02:21 — Hobson on unreliable narration and envy
• 03:06 — The truth about Milton and Matthew's incarceration
• 03:47 — Reading from the novel: first night in juvenile facility
• 04:27 — Discussing the function of poetic, challenging language
• 05:22 — Oklahoma as a forbidding and influential landscape
• 06:05 — Playfulness and surrealist touches in the novel
• 06:49 — The significance (or not) of the Brandon H. character
• 07:55 — Writing process: mystical, organic, focused on language and doors opening
• 08:47 — Literary fiction’s emphasis on structure and language over plot

Summary

This episode offers a rich, nuanced look at The Devil Is a Southpaw and its inventive prose, layered storytelling, and psychological complexity. Listeners are invited into Brandon Hobson’s creative process: his use of unreliable narrators, poetic descriptions, and playfulness with literary form. Oklahoma emerges as more than backdrop—a character suffused with beauty and bleakness. Hobson’s candid reflections and playful spirit illuminate how serious questions and joy coexist in challenging, artful fiction.