NPR's Book of the Day

Episode: 'This is Where the Serpent Lives' is a sprawling debut novel set in modern Pakistan
Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Scott Simon (NPR)
Guest: Daniel Moonadin, author

Episode Overview

In this episode, Scott Simon interviews Daniel Moonadin about his debut novel, This Is Where the Serpent Lives. The conversation delves into the novel's intricate portrayal of class, family, crime, and violence in Pakistan, while drawing connections to universal experiences and the American reader’s perspective. Moonadin also shares personal revelations about the writing process, the autobiographical aspects of his characters, and his emotional journey in the aftermath of his mother's death.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Scope and Ambition of the Novel

• The book is described as “big, ambitious,” spanning multiple generations and tackling large societal issues, drawing comparisons to Dickens and Chekhov for its breadth.

  "Today's book is one of those big, ambitious literary novels that goes for it... the ones that tell a long and epic story spanning generations." – Andrew Limbong, [00:02]

Origins of the Character Bayezid

• Bayezid, a boy found abandoned with nothing but new plastic shoes, becomes central to the story.
• His origins are murky; whether lost or abandoned remains unclear, setting the tone for themes of class and fate.

  "Bayezid never knew how he came to be a little boy alone in the streets of Rome. Raoul Pindi... He might have been abandoned, not lost." – Daniel Moonadin (reading), [01:54]

The Symbolism of the Shoes

• The new shoes Bayezid clings to intrigue his rescuer, Karim, the tea stall owner.

  "It's so odd that the boy should have the shoes and that they should be new. So I think it's just a question mark that is put in front of him." – Daniel Moonadin, [03:27]

Informal Education and Survival

• Bayezid’s life is shaped less by formal schooling and more by experiences in places like the tea stall.

  "Throughout the book, there are a number of schools that he passes through, none of them formal, but... that's the first one." – Daniel Moonadin, [03:42]

Violence, Power, and Social Hierarchy

• In a defining moment, Bayezid stabs himself rather than his tormentors, signaling both his bravery and his calculated avoidance of trouble as a member of the marginalized.

  "What it shows his buddies is: A, that he's capable of violence, and B, that he's able to control his capability... The actual person upon whom Bayezid is formed... told me that that happened to him when he was young." – Daniel Moonadin, [04:04]

Dynamics of Wealth, Power, and Gender

• The relationship between Hisham and Shehnaz, wealthy Lahore residents, illustrates power partnerships in marriage and business, hinting at the quiet but potent influence of women.

  "Hisham is this public face and Shehnaz is sort of the brains... often, in fact, the women are the ones who have the real power, but they exercise it through their husbands." – Daniel Moonadin, [04:51]

• The feudal structure in Pakistan is explored, where landowners' roles extend beyond economics to community leadership, with both familial and dysfunctional overtones.

  "You're not just running a business, you're part of a very large connected community which you head... like a very dysfunctional family." – Daniel Moonadin, [05:30]

Autobiographical Elements

• Rustam, a character returning from the U.S. to Pakistan, is partly based on Moonadin’s own experience as a young man returned to his family’s farm.

  "He's the character who probably most resembles me, although I hope I'm not quite as clueless as he is... I knew nothing about farming or Pakistan, for that matter." – Daniel Moonadin, [06:34]

Writing About Personal Loss

• Moonadin shares the painful and unfinished process of attempting to write a novel about his mother's death by suicide, admitting to “hiding from the truth.”

  "I spent 10 years writing a book about her death... I was hiding from the truth. I couldn't bear to say what I needed to say." – Daniel Moonadin, [07:10]

• On honesty in writing:

  "There's a whole deeper level of honesty that's required to write, and I could never be that honest about it." – Daniel Moonadin, [07:56]

Reflections on Future Work

• Moonadin hints that his next novel, also set in Pakistan, will integrate his mother’s story in a different, more emotionally accessible way.

  "My next book is going to be about her, but it's a love story... all of the experience I have... will go into the next book." – Daniel Moonadin, [08:36]

The ‘Distorting Mirror’ and Universal Relevance

• While the book is specific to Pakistan, Moonadin intends for American readers to see their own society reflected in its pages.

  “Without a doubt, I'll have failed miserably if readers don't see in this a great deal of themselves... I certainly hope that they will look at it and see it as a sort of a distorting mirror that allows them to understand themselves better.” – Daniel Moonadin, [09:16]

Memorable Quotes & Segment Timestamps

• [01:54] Daniel Moonadin (reading from the novel):
  “He had a memory more of forces than of people. A crowd, a hand, a hand. No more… He might have been abandoned, not lost.”
• [04:04] Daniel Moonadin (on Bayezid’s self-wounding):
  “By stabbing himself, he's proven how brave he is and yet has not gone to the extreme of hurting somebody, which would lead to trouble…”
• [06:34] Daniel Moonadin (on Rustam’s autobiographical roots):
  “I knew nothing about farming or Pakistan, for that matter. I'd been away for school since I was 13, and so I was thrown into the deep end, just as Rustam is…”
• [07:56] Daniel Moonadin (on writing about his mother):
  “There's a whole deeper level of honesty that's required to write, and I could never be that honest about it.”
• [09:16] Daniel Moonadin (on American readers):
  “I'll have failed miserably if readers don't see in this a great deal of themselves… I certainly hope that they will look at it and see it as a sort of a distorting mirror…”

Episode Flow & Timestamps

• [00:02] Introduction – A sweeping debut with echoes of classic literature
• [01:54] Author reading: Bayezid’s beginnings and the role of the tea stall
• [03:19] The shoes' symbolism and the informal education of the street
• [04:04] Bayezid’s act of self-harm as resistance
• [04:51] Power dynamics: Hisham and Shehnaz, gender, and landownership
• [06:34] Rustam’s story and autobiographical connections
• [07:10] Abandoned novel about Moonadin’s mother; the struggle to face traumatic truth
• [08:36] Hints about the next book and integrating personal loss as fiction
• [09:16] The book’s intended impact as a ‘distorting mirror’ for American readers
• [09:35] Interview conclusion

Summary

This interview with Daniel Moonadin offers a profound exploration of This Is Where the Serpent Lives—a sprawling, multigenerational debut novel set in modern Pakistan—through themes of class, family, violence, and the enduring consequences of power and feudal relationships. Moonadin candidly shares his personal struggles with grief and creative honesty, inviting readers to see themselves reflected in his fictional Pakistan. The episode stands as both a window into Pakistani society and a universal meditation on privilege, belonging, and the truths authors struggle to express.