15.6: Sex Worship

Summary

Podcast Summary: Occult Confessions - Episode 15.6: Sex Worship

Release Date: November 26, 2021
Host/Author: The Alchemical Actors (Rob C. Thompson)

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Introduction to Sex Worship

The episode delves into the intricate relationship between sexuality and spirituality, guided by the insights of 19th-century writer and Rosicrucian enthusiast Hargrave Jennings. Rob C. Thompson introduces the theme by questioning whether the foundation of all religions lies in the worship of penises and vaginas. Jennings posits that prehistoric reproductive worship is the secret origin of global religions, aligning with philosophies like yin and yang and Hermeticism.

Rob C. Thompson [00:00]: "Is the root of all religions the worship of penises and vaginas?"

Guest Introductions and the Pledge

Rob is joined by Jacob Wheatley, Knight of the Dangling Serpent, and Anna Pavon, a returning member from earlier seasons. The trio engages in a light-hearted moment reciting their unique pledge, emphasizing their commitment to uncovering the occult history.

Jacob Wheatley [02:24]: "It's my penis intuition."

Hargrave Jennings: The Phallic Scholar

Rob provides a biography of Hargrave Jennings, highlighting his work on Rosicrucianism and ancient religious history. Jennings challenges the notion of absolute truth in religions, suggesting that all major religious traditions share superficial similarities rooted in male and female generative principles.

Rob C. Thompson [08:07]: "Jennings likes Krishna because he's partial to India. He believes that all religions have their root in Central Asia."

Symbolism in Religious Architecture

The discussion moves to various symbols that represent phallic and yonic worship across cultures. Jennings interprets obelisks, poles, and other architectural elements as manifestations of the male and female principles. The conversation touches upon ancient structures like Stonehenge and the use of serpents and tridents as symbols of life and regeneration.

Rob C. Thompson [18:01]: "Obelisk towers and steeples represent in figure fourth, the male principle."

Rituals and Festivals: A Sexual Undertone

Rob and his guests explore ancient Roman festivals such as Bacchanalia and Liberalia, highlighting their explicit sexual elements. Jennings associates these rituals with genital worship, emphasizing activities like parades featuring phallic floats and orgiastic rites intended to promote fertility and divine favor.

Rob C. Thompson [36:36]: "The Liberalia featured a parade in which a giant penis was led through the town and women ran through the forests half naked."

Ritual Prostitution and Sacred Symbols

The episode delves into the controversial topic of ritual prostitution in ancient temples, where women acted as divine symbols for fertility and worship. Jennings connects these practices to broader themes of sexual symbolism in religious worship, suggesting that objects like the lotus and lingam hold deep spiritual significance.

Rob C. Thompson [47:23]: "In Hebrew tradition, the first book of Samuel says that the sons of Eli lay with the women who assembled at the tabernacle of the congregation, suggesting a similar form of sex worship."

Modern Reflections on Sexuality and Spirituality

Transitioning to contemporary times, Rob reflects on how ancient sexual rituals influence modern perceptions of sex and spirituality. The discussion highlights the ongoing struggle to balance sexual desire with societal norms, especially concerning women’s sexuality.

Rob C. Thompson [60:06]: "Sex is kind of in everything. And it continues to be tough to be sexually active and tough to be a virgin and particularly tough to be a woman."

Social Dynamics and the Expression of Desire

The conversation shifts to current social dynamics, particularly how digital interactions have transformed the way desire is expressed and perceived. The guests lament the loss of face-to-face interactions and the complexities introduced by online communications.

Rob C. Thompson [67:02]: "Maybe the Internet and the phone is taking away our ability to look each other in the eye and say, oh, yeah, this person's honest."

Conclusion: The Mystery of Sexuality in Spirituality

Rob concludes by acknowledging the enduring mysteries and contradictions surrounding sex in both historical and modern contexts. He emphasizes Jennings' humility in grappling with these complexities and suggests that understanding and respecting sexual desire is crucial for spiritual and personal growth.

Rob C. Thompson [73:29]: "We just kept all that pagan stuff. Halloween."

Notable Quotes

• Rob C. Thompson [00:00]: "Is the root of all religions the worship of penises and vaginas?"
• Jacob Wheatley [02:24]: "It's my penis intuition."
• Rob C. Thompson [08:07]: "Jennings likes Krishna because he's partial to India. He believes that all religions have their root in Central Asia."
• Rob C. Thompson [18:01]: "Obelisk towers and steeples represent in figure fourth, the male principle."
• Rob C. Thompson [36:36]: "The Liberalia featured a parade in which a giant penis was led through the town and women ran through the forests half naked."
• Rob C. Thompson [47:23]: "In Hebrew tradition, the first book of Samuel says that the sons of Eli lay with the women who assembled at the tabernacle of the congregation, suggesting a similar form of sex worship."
• Rob C. Thompson [60:06]: "Sex is kind of in everything. And it continues to be tough to be sexually active and tough to be a virgin and particularly tough to be a woman."
• Rob C. Thompson [67:02]: "Maybe the Internet and the phone is taking away our ability to look each other in the eye and say, oh, yeah, this person's honest."
• Rob C. Thompson [73:29]: "We just kept all that pagan stuff. Halloween."

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This episode of Occult Confessions offers a provocative exploration of the intertwined nature of sexuality and spirituality throughout history. By examining ancient rituals, symbols, and modern social dynamics, Rob C. Thompson and his guests invite listeners to reconsider the foundational elements of religious worship and the persistent mysteries surrounding human sexuality.

Transcript

[Rob C. Thompson]

Occult Confessions is brought to you commercial free through the generous support of our patrons. Visit occultconfessions.com and click on Donate to help keep the history of the occult on the digital airwaves. You're listening to our Sex and Spirituality series which will contain references to various aspects of human sexuality and may not be suitable for all listeners. Is the root of all religions the worship of penises and vaginas? 19th century writer and Rosicrucian enthusiast Hargrave Jennings thought so. He said that the worship of the reproductive powers is prehistoric and the secret origin of all the world's religions. In line with the yin and yang as well as hermetic philosophy, the male power was active, the power of God, and the female power was passive. The power of nature or the earth mother. Eggs and palm fronds at Easter, the Hindu lingam, pagan and Judaic pillars, the ark of the covenant and the cross itself are all signs of the cult of the Yani and the Phallus. So says Jennings, we've lost sight of this basic truth of our worship because of a confusion between the priestly class and the masses. Ancient priests likely understood the metaphorical nature of their worship, the creative generative principle rather than literal sex. But the communities of believers did not grasp the finer points of this sexual symbolism. And the masses confusion led to salacious and lascivious rites, standing in for the true pure sex religion and the gradual sublimation of genital worship. Luckily, we've got Hargrave Jennings and his phallic occult confession to clear all of this up and help us discover the penis and the vagina at the center of our modern church services. My name is Rob C. Thompson, here at the home of people who have and or love people who have pubic hair, Occult Confessions. I am joined by Jacob Wheatley, Knight of the dangling serpent for our day of penises and vaginas. Who else?

[Jacob Wheatley]

I mean, it's kind of my domain now.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Jacob. I gotta tell everyone. This is exciting. Jacob lives in Florida most of the time. He moved to Florida, but he is back. He's actually in the room with me right now.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, I got really excited when you told me we were talking about penis worship. So I got in my car and drove 13 hours to be here.

[Rob C. Thompson]

It happened right then. I didn't tell him till this morning.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, I just. It's my penis intuition.

[Rob C. Thompson]

And I've got another surprise for you all. Blast from the past. This is Anna Pavon, who was with us in our very first season. Anna is remote from Virginia but we've managed to get her on the show. Ana, what's up?

[Anna Pavon]

Hey. How's it going? It's been so long. I'm really excited.

[Rob C. Thompson]

For anyone who's like that voice, I think I can. What episode? Rob? It is Joan of Arc. Ana plays Joan of Arc. She also appears on our Marie Laveau episode and a few episodes, particularly, I think in the Lady Magic series.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah, I think so. Long, long ago. Like four years ago now.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Back in the day, Connected for Dark Pool. And now she's back in, back on the big show.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about penises.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Aren't we all? What about vaginas, man?

[Anna Pavon]

Also vaginas. That was implied, obviously.

[Rob C. Thompson]

All right, See if you can keep up with the pledge. Do you know the pledge? It's been so long. Jacob and I will do it. You can just throw in a word here and there where you feel inspired.

[Anna Pavon]

Okay.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's a lot of pressure.

[Jacob Wheatley]

But.

[Rob C. Thompson]

We, the members of the Secret Order of Alchemical actors, suddenly commit ourselves to a full and honest telling of the history of the occult as far.

[Jacob Wheatley]

As we know it. That felt painful.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You said actors, and it. It's been four years.

[Anna Pavon]

I've been doing other things. I'm sorry.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I just love that those are the only two you've picked out. Jacob, open up the plugs.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Plug, plug. Is that what she said?

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Oh, yeah. Plug, plug, plug. I failed that one.

[Rob C. Thompson]

There's a little bit of complexity because Jacob and I are both in the room, so we can hear each other's voice, voices live. And we're online listening to Anna, so.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I hear, like, double sometimes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

It's a little bit of an echo. Yeah. What are we talking about? Plugs. Let me thank some patrons. John L. And Sean O. Thank you for joining us. Also, and speaking of bumps, pledge bump from Frotter M. Frotter M. Frotter M. Thanks. Thanks, all. Welcome to the Patron crew. I want to set aside the rest of today's plugs to talk about fame, because we were famous for a few days recently, we made the Spotify history charts. Now we never talk about this stuff. We made it up to number 48, which is pretty good, considering there's, I don't know, like, 30,000 history podcasts. I want to say a few things about it. You know, charts are not something. It's. There's something I track just to compare how we're doing on different platforms. I have to say I'm no lover of particular corporations, but just everyone should know Spotify's algorithm is many times kinder to us than anyone else's. Yeah, that's just how it is. I think that the size of the show is often kind of masked because Spotify is also very secretive about the metrics on their shows, whereas in other platforms, you can see how many reviews and all this sort of stuff, Spotify tells you nothing. Maybe that benefits us. I don't know.

[Jacob Wheatley]

They're just like, bam.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Although most of our reviews on itunes are quite positive. I don't. I don't know. Anyway, Katharine Hepburn said, fame is always behind you. And by that, she meant, you should never be concerned about it. It's something that's happened, and it's not in front of you. We're not especially concerned with. With that. We're grateful to Spotify that the algorithms have been good to us. We're grateful to all of you. Here's what I want to say about this. We have a couple hundred patrons. That's all. And I have a few hundred people that, you know, I'm in conversation with on Discord, Instagram, and different areas. I mean, this is a core audience of folks who makes this show possible. And you guys. You guys. Not just us, you guys made it into the top 50 history. It's sort of insane.

[Anna Pavon]

That's fucking cool.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Such a small group of people making this message audible to a very large. A reasonably large audience. Right? Yeah. We're not Call her daddy or anything, but we're reaching a fair number of people, and you guys are doing this. So I guess this is a long way of saying keep it up. Patrons, we love you. We thank you. Join us, support us, because it's. It's working.

[Anna Pavon]

Until we can become. Call her daddy.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Until we can become Call her daddy.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You know, Anna, we're doing it because we're talking sex pretty much every week.

[Anna Pavon]

This is Call Her Daddy. Do you think that we'd get, like, in trouble for calling this episode Call Her Daddy? Because I think we should change it.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, it's daddy and mommy again. I have to remind you that vaginas are involved.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Call her Dommy.

[Anna Pavon]

Call her Tommy. Mommy.

[Rob C. Thompson]

In a postmodern age here, we have to also bear in mind that you could be a daddy or a mommy regardless of your genitals. Am I right?

[Anna Pavon]

Absolutely.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Close up those plugs. Plugs.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Plug. Plug.

[Rob C. Thompson]

All right, let me talk about my man Hargrave. Jennings, you guys ready for this?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Hargrave. Anna's writing that down. That'll be her first child.

[Anna Pavon]

That's the first name.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Taking notes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Hargrave Jennings was born around 1817. He's not somebody we know a whole lot about, so I'm gonna do his biography in a sec. Couple seconds. Here he was. Among his earliest published works was a series of sea sketches which he submitted to the Metropolitan Magazine at the age of 15. I imagine that sketches about the sea.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Like the ocean sea.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I didn't bother to read them, so I can't say for sure. But sea sketches, Sketches of the sea. Anyway, he worked as a secretary for the Italian opera in London and died in 1890 in St. James's Place. That's pretty much what I know about him biographically, alright, but that's not the interesting thing. The interesting stuff is what my man had to say specifically about sex worship. In his many books on Rosicrucianism and the ancient history of religion, Jennings asserts that he does not believe in the absolute righteousness of any single religious tradition. He tends to believe that much of modern belief and worship overlaps in ancient history. The current difference between the various major religious traditions, the differences that is, are fairly superficial underneath, are very similar. He says we are only correct when we retire into Cloudland with speculation and at once deny the possibility of special truth or abstract truth or indeed any truth. That's right. He says we cannot come to any truth on religion.

[Jacob Wheatley]

You can't come to any truth on.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Religion, not a final truth until you enter Cloudland. Well, and he's saying the Cloudland of speculation. So you just sort of have to humble yourself and say, you know, I'm making guesses here, keeping an open mind.

[Anna Pavon]

For lack of a better term.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That's pretty good.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You can see why I'm talking about this guy. He's. He's kind of our people in this way. Not gonna agree with him about everything, but that's a good start. It's a fairly radical notion that he's giving us, considering that he's writing in the 1880s. What Jennings means is not that all truth is absolutely relative, but rather that absolute truths are impossible to formulate because they are shrouded in mystery. He says, I'm quoting him. All religions commence in myths and disappear in myths, because the ends and purposes of life, of man altogether, the meaning of nature itself, are wrapped up in mystery. Ultimate truths are beyond human comprehension. This is me now, not him. I'm trying to explain. Ultimate truths are beyond human comprehension and so only at best subject to, as we're saying, speculation. At the end of his short, anonymously published book on phallic Worship. He quotes the Bhagavad Gita. Even they who worship other gods says Krishna, the incarnate deity in an ancient Indian poem, worship me, although they know it not. Think about that for a second. Even they who worship other gods worship me, although they know it not.

[Anna Pavon]

So, like, going back to like one single source God kind of thing, Is that what you're saying?

[Rob C. Thompson]

That we speculate on which gods we're worshiping? Sort of what Krishna's point is here, but we are all worshiping Krishna regardless of what we tell ourselves or each other. So I guess we could fill in. We could change out Krishna for Yahweh or Jesus or other gods. What's wrong with me? How am I drawing a blank on.

[Jacob Wheatley]

God, Other gods, Zeus.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Okay, Dambala, whatever. Now I'm getting there.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Now you're on a roll.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Divine source. If I go to the spiritualist, the horned God.

[Anna Pavon]

All right, now we're getting into it.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You can sub out any of these names and it's the same God. That's Krishna's point.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Jennings likes Krishna because he's partial to India. He believes that all religions have their root in Central Asia. A quick Google search more or less affirms that Jennings belief has stood the test of time with the Vedic and Hindu religion winning the prize for oldest. Although belief in supernatural natural beings is arguably as old as humanity itself. If you haven't done my India episodes yet, dear confessors, the Vedas or the Vedic religion is Hind, is the earth, is early Hinduism. Just like Judaism predates Christianity, except Judaism kept going. The Vedic religion sort of just is Hinduism anyhow.

[Anna Pavon]

Morphed.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah, morphed. There you go. His life's work, speaking of Jennings focused on the occult secrets of Rosicrucianism and his theory of phallic worship. All religions, he argued, begin with the worship of Bipenis and Anna and what's the other one?

[Anna Pavon]

Vaginas.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Vagina.

[Jacob Wheatley]

There we go.

[Anna Pavon]

I haven't forgotten about vaginas.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Good. This is admittedly a bit of speculation on Jennings part. He doesn't really do any original research himself. He's not reading primary documents or excavating caves, unlike us, who are constantly excavating caves.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Literally just came from a cave today, too.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You stopped on your 13 hour drive.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I did. I had to.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I was like, man, could you excavate a cave?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

In South Carolina.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I said, I guess I have the time for it.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Probably Virginia. There's a lot of caves in Virginia, right? Yeah.

[Jacob Wheatley]

No, no.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, not in Richmond.

[Anna Pavon]

Lorraine.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. You got Caves.

[Anna Pavon]

There's a cave there.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You're known for your caves. Come on.

[Anna Pavon]

I'm known for my cave, too.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You personally?

[Jacob Wheatley]

No.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Are we talking about vaginas again? Whoa, you got dirty quick. Okay.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I mean, it's bound to happen at some point.

[Anna Pavon]

I just can't hold the filter.

[Rob C. Thompson]

No, that's good. This is what the people are listening for. This is how we're gonna get those call her daddy numbers.

[Jacob Wheatley]

There we go. Bring in more phallic.

[Rob C. Thompson]

All right, so anyway, my man's not doing primary research, is what I'm saying, or archaeology. He's pulling together the work of other scholars to make the case that everything has its roots in phallicism.

[Anna Pavon]

Freudian approach to religion.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Okay. Yeah. It's all about Venus.

[Jacob Wheatley]

There you go.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Nice. Now you're. Now you're getting intellectual. You go both ways.

[Anna Pavon]

I went back to school recently.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Do it.

[Rob C. Thompson]

All right. Now, I need to qualify the word phallicism because I think a lot of folks are going to think penis. But he doesn't just mean penis when he says. When he says phallus or when he says phallusism, he means the sex organs. To him, phallicism means all sex organs, encompassing all male and female power. Yeah, Specifically the male and female power of sexual generation. So the man's power to. Okay, well, I can't say this enough. Makes me nervous. I understand. We're in a gender fluid world. Man and woman, fluid concepts. Penis and vagina. We did all that right at the beginning of the episode. So I apologize if I step on any toes here. The male try to use male and female as much as possible. The male inseminates, right? That's the male's power. And the female's power is to, I guess, germinate in the womb. Right.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I don't know. I'm not an expert on this.

[Anna Pavon]

Take that sperm. Take that sperm and make it a baby.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Make it into a person. Yeah, yeah. Pretty cool. I've seen it happen. It's pretty cool.

[Anna Pavon]

This is the first time I had this sidebar. I learned a really cool fact recently. That the female egg actually chooses which sperm to, I don't know, hook up with.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Really? Based on what?

[Anna Pavon]

It's not the fastest swimmer Speed dating.

[Rob C. Thompson]

So not. Not speed. Take your time plotting wins the race. We learned that in the Tortoise and the hare. It's also a sexual metaphor.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Is it really?

[Rob C. Thompson]

Think about it.

[Anna Pavon]

Oh, my gosh. That makes so much sense.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Don't rush. Oh, no. Way to please your partner.

[Anna Pavon]

The Truth.

[Rob C. Thompson]

All right. To confuse this a little bit, because we're not confused enough already. We're all over the place. We're from Aesop all the way to. Yeah, all to Freud. He. He uses separate words for penis and vagina. He calls one the phallus and one the yawny penis. Phallus, Vagina. Yanni.

[Anna Pavon]

I know a guy named Yanni.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Do you?

[Anna Pavon]

I do.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Does he play adult contemporary music?

[Anna Pavon]

He might. I wouldn't be surprised.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Do you know the Yanni? Do you know who I'm talking about?

[Anna Pavon]

No.

[Rob C. Thompson]

He's got long hair. Do you know Yanni?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, I know who you're talking about.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yanni. He plays adult contemporary music. It's like smooth jazz.

[Anna Pavon]

Oh, no, this is a different.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah, isn't it? That's what he does, right? Yeah, he's like Kenny G, but with an orchestra.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, I guess.

[Anna Pavon]

So look up Yanni. Now.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Y, A, N, N, I. But this is spelled Y O, N.

[Anna Pavon]

I. Oh, when you said play, I thought you were saying, like, just playing music.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Oh, like he listens to it. No.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Our history of genital worship has only been hidden from the public because our middle brown taste has deemed this plain and simple truth decent. He's talking in 19th century terms. We were. We are far less decent today than we were then, but still not going around talking about penises in church. So it's only hidden because we refuse to acknowledge it. In fact, the evidence of our ancient ties to phallic worship is all around us, built into the very footprint of our cities and world wonders, which we'll get into.

[D]

Obelisk towers and steeples represent in figure fourth, the male principle. Pyramids. Circular magnified forms and rhomboidal or undulating serpentine shapes denote the female natural power. The one set of forms are masculine, therefore aggressive and compelling. The other set of forms are feminine, therefore submissive and ennobling. But all are alike. Phallic and mean the same thing. That is the natural motived power which causes and directs the world. The power which is the world. In fact.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The phallus or lingam has been an object of worship across cultures. The sun serpent. Okay, so penis is first, everyone.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Penis, Penis.

[Anna Pavon]

Penis is always first.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah, that's. I guess that's human history, isn't it, man?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Unfortunate truth.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, we're gonna blame Jennings. He put penises first. I mean, just chronologically, the vagina is going to get its moment.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Which came first, the penis or the vagina? Wait, that was bad.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, and you know, the. The. The Old Testament The. The Pentateuch has an opinion on that.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Oh, it does again.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The penis, the sun, the serpent and phallic emblem all serve in the worship of what Jennings calls the generative principle. Here Jennings is talking about both literal procreation and its mystical components, which blend for him in a kind of perfect mystery. The Greeks personified phallic worship in the God Priapus. Priapus was the son of Aphrodite, but had several potential fathers, including Dionysus, Hermes, Pan and Zeus. Really wildly different characters there. We have that horny half goat in the woods. We have the God of wine, and we have, you know, king God. Oh, and Hermes just kicking around in there. Magic God, messenger man. The trickster pits up. You know, it's every. It's a quite a collection. Anyway, could any of them. Could be. Dad, this is like the plot of that ABBA movie, Mamma Mia Mia.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah, basically. That's probably where they got it from.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah, this totally.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Abarip or whoever wrote that priest, doesn't it?

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yes, you're right, actually. Yeah, they're very close.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Wow.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Practically the same story.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Same movie, the same story.

[Rob C. Thompson]

He was the man. Priapus was the patron of penises with a perpetual erection, cursed by Hera to be impotent and foul. Yikes.

[Jacob Wheatley]

A perpetual erection.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah, but he's impotent, also foul. So he's probably not getting laid very easily.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Know a few people like that?

[Rob C. Thompson]

Zing. The gods tossed him off Olympus and he. Because you can't live with that, like, in your house. And he was raised by shepherds who are pretty cool. Like in all cultures, shepherds are always the coolest.

[Jacob Wheatley]

They're the fun guys. Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Pavon]

They're just out in the fields about with their sheep.

[Rob C. Thompson]

If you're going to abandon a child or a God or anybody, they're just going to pick it up and raise it, those shepherds. That's pretty. That's pretty cool.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, thanks. Shepherds.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Why aren't we worshipping shepherds or something? At least a shrine. Something.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Bacchus or Dionysus and Hercules were also considered Greek phallic gods. So Bacchus and Dionysus names for the same God. Other phallic deities include Shiva or Siva in India, Osiris in Egypt, BAAL and Asher. Osiris, of course, had his penis, all his body parts removed, and he couldn't find his penis. And so he got a. I think a golden penis fashioned for Isis. But BAAL and Asher are probably the ones you guys never heard of, right? Baal was an ancient Mesopotamian God of weather and fertility. He was worshiped by ancient Canaanite and Phoenicians, Canaanites and Phoenicians as the slayer of great sea serpent. He also slayed the Canaanite death God Mot, becoming the leader of the ancestral spirits. Pretty cool. Interestingly, the name BAAL is also used as a synonym for Adonia or My Lord, which was used for the Hebrew Yahweh. So possible connection there.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I was going to say, is this the same. Because you said God.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Correct.

[Jacob Wheatley]

The same one in the Old Testament, I assume. Yes, because when they were worshiping false idols and stuff, that was one of them.

[Rob C. Thompson]

BAAL was among them. But I think Jennings wants us to remember that the name baal, if we do, some etymology, could consist conceivably translate to my Lord.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Okay, cool.

[Rob C. Thompson]

There's always. I mean, he's playing games here, and it's the 19th century, so I don't know if he's right on this, but he makes a point that the Old Testament in particular would take the gods of various religions and turn them into devils or demons. Ashur was the head. The other God was the head of the Assyrian pantheon of gods and stood in for Marduk as the slayer of Tiamat when the Assyrians conquered Babylon. So they just subbed out some God names there. Could see our episode on UFO Apocalypse or something. Maybe space apocalypse. Talk about Marduk. Pillars, poles, and stones served as natural emblems for the phallus. The serpent on the pole, or caduceus, is a symbol for the tree of life. Also resurrection and regeneration. This might help explain why it's often a symbol used in medical contexts. Have you ever seen that? The satisfaction?

[Anna Pavon]

I have noticed that.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. That's what it's all about. Resurrection and regeneration. It's a penis symbol that you're looking at there.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I'm the night of resurrection.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. We should all start. Jacob, this is what we should do. You know, the next time we're with a romantic partner, we want to introduce him to our resurrection.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I'll have to remember that.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Something like that. That's a. I think that's a good name for it.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Welcome to my resurrection.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Get out my resurrection here as a woman.

[Anna Pavon]

If somebody said that to me, I would just probably walk out.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Okay. What if I said I'm gonna get out my tree of life?

[Anna Pavon]

I would also walk out.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I'm not gonna have this problem. I. I'm into dudes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Men might go for it more. Nah. What if we phrase it as a Question. Is it all right if I bring out my caduceus?

[Jacob Wheatley]

That sounds pretty romantic to me.

[Anna Pavon]

Maybe it's better. You're asking for consent if you say that.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Is it okay? Would you like to see the caduceus?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Here on Occult Confessions, we believe in consent.

[Rob C. Thompson]

We absolutely do. Ask a question, don't make a statement.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Pillars, often with carved heads, abound as phallic symbols. The Thebans represented Bacchus as a pillar, as did the Assyrians with their God, Nebo. Bacchus, or Dionysus, was the God of wine and theater with an orgiastic cult of women who met in the woods for secret rites. Nebo, or Nabu, was worshiped by the Assyrians as the God of wisdom and the inventor of writing. Jacob, are you familiar with any other gods who tend to hang out and appear as pillars?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Appear as pillars.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Hmm. Sound at all like story of Moses?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Ah, fire.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. God appears as a pillar of fire. That's right. Indeed. Also turns people into pillars of salt.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Lot's wife. Don't turn around. Listen learned. Never turn around.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Contrary to the song Bright Eyes, the Babylonians regarded him as a son of Marduk. He wore a horned hat and rode a winged dragon, Nebo, that is gifted to him by his father. He was associated with Hermes and Toth as well, and was the Mesopotamian version of the pagan Hermetic gods in Scotland. There are the stones set on end, like the caline standing stones on the Isle of Lewis or the Macri stones on the Isle of Arran. I've seen some of these. They're quite amazing. And they're ancient. You don't. We don't know what happened, how they got there. They're beautiful, and they're really something to stand near. They're very tall. While folks like Jennings have speculated these stones were used for ceremony and worship, their exact purpose is lost to history. These are literally tall stones. Tall stones set on end, often in triangular or circular formations. We can think of Stonehenge, but Stonehenge is another thing entirely for Jennings anyway, and we're going to get to that in a bit, so put a pin in that one. Triads. You're going to love this, Jacob. Maybe Ono, too. Triads represented the phallus and the testicles. Triads. Whenever we see three.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Oh, perfect.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Love talking about testicles. Here on Occult Confessions. For the Assyrians, the supreme God Ashur is the phallus, with the sky God Anu, the right testicle and the doorkeeper and scribe God, Heya, the left testicle Asher's genitals. By the way, the Assyrian God also had their own God, Beltus.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Beltus.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You are an important God. If your. If your penis has its own God. That's.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That's a lot to take in.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I'm not sure what Beltas did all day, but it's a pretty. I don't know what it is. I was gonna say it's a cool job. I don't know. It's a job. Somebody's got to do it.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I mean, I'd sign up for that job, so.

[Rob C. Thompson]

God of the God's penis.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

We could update Jennings triad with recent scholarship and say that the triad is actually Anu, Enlil and Enki, the supreme creator, Father God and God who rescued humanity from the great flood, respectively. I can't say for certain how well these three equate to the penis and the testicles. None of them appear as pole or ball shaped entities, so who knows?

[Jacob Wheatley]

That would be pretty funny if that's just how they.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's how they were represented. Yeah, I mean, Jennings is making leaps, man, but they're fun. They're fun leaps.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I'm into this. This is pretty cool.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Many symbols took on this phallic signification. Signification. This is gonna get more fun. The trident is kind of a phallus. Think about it.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Okay. Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The fig leaf, which is often covering your phallus, and the tree between two boulders, the sexiest of trees.

[Anna Pavon]

This is the most obvious one, right?

[Rob C. Thompson]

That tree's always coming on to you.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Exactly.

[Rob C. Thompson]

More obtuse symbols include the bull, the goat, the serpent, the torch and the crosier, best identified today as the hooked staff of a Catholic bishop. Yeah. The triad or trinity came to be represented by the cross. This was originally the letter T or tau, which served as an emblem for creation, but metamorphosed into the cross. The cross was a prominent symbol among Egyptians, Persians, pagans of various stripes, and the druids, most notably among the pagans. It appears in the temple of Serapis, a Greco Egyptian deity combining attributes of Osiris, the sacred bull, APIs, underworld God Hades, earth goddess Demeter and Dion. The cross also appears on pre Christian runic ornaments in Sweden and Denmark. So Fidge Henning says all penises.

[Jacob Wheatley]

There's some. I mean, there's something on his mind.

[Rob C. Thompson]

But there's going to be another thing now. Okay, Anna, it's your turn.

[Anna Pavon]

Oh, because I have a vagina.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Correct.

[Anna Pavon]

Okay.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I mean, there's a reason I have each of you.

[Anna Pavon]

I figured as much.

[Rob C. Thompson]

And you've already identified as one with a cave, so you started this.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That one's kind of unusual. I'm sorry.

[Anna Pavon]

It is one joke.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's all it takes.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That really is all it takes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The female power is represented by the Yani. Vulva, womb, birthplace, water, origin, or whole. You prefer any of those? Anna?

[Anna Pavon]

Origin. Speaking to me.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Origin's nice. Yeah.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That sounds nice.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. May I show you my origin?

[Anna Pavon]

It is the origin, though it kind of is the origin of all people. Don't you think?

[Rob C. Thompson]

I think it's a great way to call it.

[Jacob Wheatley]

So romantic.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Beautiful.

[Anna Pavon]

Oh, thanks.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You know, I'm gonna go ahead and riff for a second here. I think part of the reason that we're unwilling to think of the vagina in those terms is I think some men are kind of turned off thinking about a woman as a mother. I mean, the birth is not. It's a beautiful event, but let me be honest. It's not the sexiest occasion.

[Jacob Wheatley]

It's kind of terrifying.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Seeing a vagina do those things is. It'll open your eyes. But I think that a man should be more comfortable with that aspect of a woman and that aspect of sex. Am I wrong?

[Anna Pavon]

I mean, it comes with the territory.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, it's true.

[Anna Pavon]

You might as well. And I think. I mean, yeah, it's like. That's freaky that a vagina can do something like that. But the fact that you, like women, have this organ that can heal itself after pushing out another human being, like, that's kind of magic.

[Jacob Wheatley]

It's kind of incredible.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. So, I mean, for a heterosexual man or a homosexual woman or whatever, all in between. I invite everyone to this party who wants to play with a vagina. I think that. I think the inclination. Ana correct me if I'm wrong, that, you know, some men of a. You know. How do I put this? Tenderized variety. There you go. There you go. Thank you. They approach the vagina as a toy.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah. A pump and dump. Referred to as.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's ridiculous. It should be.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That's really sad.

[Rob C. Thompson]

It should be treated with respect and love. You are lucky to be in its presence.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Anna Pavon]

If all men thought that rob this world would be a different place anyhow.

[Rob C. Thompson]

But I'll call. Or I'll use the term origin more often from now on. Your suggestion on it. The Greek letter delta. Think about the delta. It's a triangle. The goddesses Juno and Venus represent the Yani in Western paganism, Isis in Egyptian religion. Sort of obvious. Other goddesses of the Yani include Astarte, Diana, Artemis, Rhea, Cybele, Ceres and Ava, Freya and Frigga. Let's talk about some of the less familiar ones of those, shall we? Rhea, Cybele and Ceres are all Greek agricultural goddesses of harvest or grain in the origin sense. Right. Makes sense. Feeds the people. Rhea, the child of Uranus, or Uranus and Gaia, was sometimes. Did you know that my child is way into the solar system? That Uranus is the only planet that rotates on its side? You knew? That was news to me.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Really?

[Rob C. Thompson]

I had no idea until my 3 year old told me. I do this other stuff. I don't do podcasts on the solar system. Rhea was the child of Uranus and Gaia and was some and is sometimes regarded as the mother of the gods. Freya was the Norse warrior goddess associated with sensual love. Frigga, less well known, was the goddess of wifely love. There's debate as to whether or not Freya and Frigga are in fact the same. Fun fact. They are the namesake for the English name for Friday.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Really?

[Rob C. Thompson]

It says Jennings. Anyway, Jennings also tosses in what might have been a fairly novel idea at the time, that Roman Catholicism is essentially a goddess religion with its cults of the Virgin Mary. A common natural symbol for the Yanni is the konka veneris shell, the concha veneris. I think they're kind of like puka.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Y. Oh, like a.

[Anna Pavon]

Like a conch shell?

[Rob C. Thompson]

No, no, concaveneris. Look, they look like a puka shell. Do you know what a puka shell is? They make necklaces out of them. Think about it. Like, it closes in. It's got the little cleft in the middle.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Anna Pavon]

Oh, yeah, Okay, I can see that.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Also the sistrum, which is an ancient Egyptian musical instrument that was basically a cross between a triangle and a tambourine. He says some esoteric stuff here. So that was a vagina instrument. We'll all learn to play and we'll be better with women.

[Anna Pavon]

Learn to play the instrument. That's what. When people are like, how can I be better in bed? You just hand them the instrument.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Learn to play the Sistrum.

[Anna Pavon]

Learn to play this.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That's some sage advice right there.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Learn to play the sistrum and you shall never be lonely, my friend. Need to get T shirts. The cleft stone, or hole in the wall, has occupied a place of significance as a site of worship of the Earth Mother. Such clefts are found at the Roman temple of Vesta, best known for its virgins, Ireland's Saint Declaws, Stone and the Indian pilgrimage site, the cow's belly wallholes. Jennings is vague about the significance of all these connections. The gods he names are certainly not exclusively genital or sexual, although they have phallic fertility and generative qualities. His point may be that certain gods encompass a phallic power, which is derived from earlier versions that were mostly or purely phallic or yonic. The same could be said for pillars or seashells. These items enter worship because they suggest sexual organs and indicate the prominent place that sexual organs have played in religion throughout history. Their continued presence in culture and religion shows the persistence of a sublimated sexuality in spirituality. Again, I'm trying to, like, get through his point here, but we have to bear in mind that, as Jacob says, he sees penises and vaginas everywhere. And it's delightful and it's interesting, but, you know.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Some are a stretch.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Healthy occult confessions, grain of salt. Rituals and festivals. I like much better his conversation about these. Let's get into that. His ideas about rituals and festivals begin with the Roman Bacchanalia. The Roman Bacchanalia in October and the Liberalia in in March were both festivals in honor of Bacchus or Dionysus, my favorite God because he's the God of performance theater. In particular, the Liberalia featured also wine, which is cool.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Wine is pretty cool.

[Rob C. Thompson]

In moderation. In moderation. On a well.

[Anna Pavon]

Needed to tell myself that two days ago and wouldn't be so tired right now, probably.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I can text you. The Liberalia featured a parade in which a giant penis. Is this what was happening to you two nights ago? A giant penis was led through the town and women ran through the forests half naked. Does this sound familiar?

[Jacob Wheatley]

That's like pride.

[Rob C. Thompson]

It's back. The Liberalia is back.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Wow.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The parade for the October Bacchanalia, a kind of harvest event, featured Bacchans carrying wine and figs, men carrying poles, and virgins carrying baskets of fruit.

[Anna Pavon]

Why were the virgins a separate category? Just out of curiosity. Also, are these men or men holding poles? Would you say women holding one?

[Rob C. Thompson]

No, it's Bacchants carrying wine and figs. So those would be specific worshipers of Bacchus, but we. We single out virgins, I think, because I would guess, and I'm just as a guess here, Ana, that the carrying of the baskets of fruit would be a way of inspiring their own future fertility. Whereas a woman who is married and has children doesn't need to be concerned about that. Everybody at this particular event ran around praising Bacchus Getting drunk and having sex after the sun went down. Please. For the lupercalia in honor of Pan. Priests ran naked through the streets, struck married women on the hands and belly as an omen of fruitfulness. So in that case, we're singling out the married ladies.

[Jacob Wheatley]

You said struck.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Struck them. Give them a good whack.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Okay.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Hopefully they're not pregnant at the time. What is it? What did I say? Did I say where they were striking them with. Let's maybe, like leaves. Let's say something not.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That was gonna be my.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Not like a two question. Yeah. The festival of Venus included the penis float again. It's back. And women parading naked and dancing suggestively. So we're getting the ladies involved.

[Anna Pavon]

Has anyone ever been to Burning Man?

[Rob C. Thompson]

It's kind of like this. I don't think they had it this year, did they? No, they did.

[Jacob Wheatley]

They canceled it.

[Rob C. Thompson]

There were a series of festivals to Venus in ancient Rome. And Jennings associated most, if not all of them with genital worship. In the case of the Venerealia, which focused on promoting sexual propriety, he was probably a bit off the mark. The venerelia involved washing a statue of the goddess at the baths. However, there was a festival that better fit Jennings ideology, and that was the April Wine Festival, or Vinalia, which was originally for Jupiter, but came to focus on Venus. For the Vinalia, common girls and prostitutes gathered at Venus temple separately to ask for blessings of beauty, charm, and wit.

[D]

Co.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Common girls, though not. Not at the same time as prostitutes.

[Anna Pavon]

I was gonna say common girls and prostitutes, separate groups.

[Rob C. Thompson]

They get their own time. Jennings also ties in the napehole, naturally.

[Anna Pavon]

A penis.

[Rob C. Thompson]

A penis, yes. Very obviously. A phallic symbol connects back to the Roman Floralia festival. Okay. Now, this is my favorite. I love the Floralia Festival. It was a festival in honor of Flora, the goddess of flowers, whose temple was located by the Circus Maximus, where Rome's great chariot, Ra held. Flora's festival had a focus on fertility. Revelers released hares and goats, and prostitutes danced and performed live sex acts as well as mock gladiatorial battles at the same time. I would think that these were. This was just your day. Like you would do one after the other.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Your festival program.

[Anna Pavon]

And this encouraged fertility by what, making.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Everyone just horny or aggressive and horny?

[Rob C. Thompson]

According to Jennings, somewhere in there, we also had a pole that people danced around the maypole. But there's no evidence of that that I'm aware of, but he figured it had to be there.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Is that mayday that's my birthday.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Nice. We'll get you a pole.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I already have one.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You guys are on tonight. Bacchanals and the rights to BAAL were also evident among the pagans of Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Gaul, France, and Germany. Jennings speculates that Stonehenge, Remember Stonehenge, May have been a temple of Bacchus by way of Apollo. Jennings interprets Bacchus as a creator God and Apollo as the sun God, which allows the pair to overlap, the sun being often the object of worship as a creator or symbol for the creator. People often think Stonehenge is a kind of clock, or at least that it involved the positioning of the sun, so that makes sense. Jennings traces this idea to a passage from Hecatius, preserved by Diodorus Siculus, in which the historian observes that in an island beyond Gaul as large as Sicily, the people worshipped Apollo in a circular temple. All right. The Hebrews practiced a form of phallic worship. Time for the Hebrews.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Even the Hebrews.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The Hebrews.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Wow.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I know. I just said that so casually.

[Jacob Wheatley]

You did.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The Hebrews practiced a form of phallic worship, as evidenced by their circumcision rites. Let's bear in mind they were very concerned with the penis. Jennings says that ritual circumcision was a custom the Hebrews and Syrians borrowed from the Egyptians. Also, in ancient Hebrew culture, when you took a sacred oath, you would place your hand under the other party's thigh because the penis was the most sacred part of the body. We need to bring this back.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Hey, no time like the present.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I think when any of you guys stand me up for a recording, if I had grabbed you by the thigh and you would grab beforehand. Promise me. Now we have all kinds of lawsuits, wouldn't we? Yep. Of Old Testament fame would mutilate male captives to deprive them of their ability to take part in the Hebrew phallic mysteries. More directly, the second book of Kings talks about a serpent idol. Hezekiah destroys a brazen serpent that Moses had made, which the children of Israel burned incense for. Mm. You know this one?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Vaguely. It sounds familiar. Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

You know all about serpents as they relate to the Bible, don't you?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, it's. I mean, it's a big part in it.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Bible loves serpents.

[Jacob Wheatley]

It really does.

[Anna Pavon]

I don't know anything about the Bible, so keep all of the. The background knowledge coming, please.

[Rob C. Thompson]

But what do you know about serpents? Me? No.

[Anna Pavon]

Like, not much.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Well, you're missing out.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Jennings speculates that the Ark of the Covenant may have also contained phallic idols. Jacob, what's the Ark of the Covenant?

[Jacob Wheatley]

It's in the holy of holies.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yes, the holy of holies. What does that mean?

[Jacob Wheatley]

So it's the. In, like, their place of worship. It's the centermost room where the Ark of the Covenant is kept.

[Rob C. Thompson]

But there was original one.

[Jacob Wheatley]

The original.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yes, there was the original one, yeah. With the original word of God, right? Yes. That's where they say you're referring to it in the individual synagogues now they have an ark.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The Egyptians says Jennings had a sacred ark containing the phallus, the egg, and the serpent for the male creator phallus, female preserver, egg, and a destroyer serpent. That's what the Egyptians had. He said they had an ark. Who the hell is an ark? Who the hell knows? Like a big chest or something.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That's what it was.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. This trinity directly parallels the Hindu Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Right. We have Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver, Shiva the destroyer.

[Jacob Wheatley]

All comes in threes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

All comes in threes. Donna, you still there?

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah, I'm kind of stuck on the. The ark.

[Rob C. Thompson]

It's not like a boat.

[Anna Pavon]

No, I know. I just. So they put all these things in the ark, and who puts them there? God.

[Jacob Wheatley]

It usually. Well, at least from what I was told, it was like. Like someone who was anointed or what? Because no one can, like, go into the room where it's at either. It's like these, like, sacred texts, like the original verses and stuff from the Bible is what they say, and a few other religious items. But, like, it's. They say it's sealed, or at least that's what they told us growing up, that it's sealed and, like, you can't go into the room, or only, like, specific people can actually, like, enter the room. Other people who aren't anointed will burst in flames. But that's not true.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's not true.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That's just what they said to scare us.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Bit by a serpent.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, you get bit by a serpent.

[Rob C. Thompson]

But what Jennings is saying is that the whole tradition of arks had nothing to do with Bible verses or anything, but it actually contained an egg, a penis, and a serpent. He said the Greeks had a similar tradition to the Egyptians, parading an ark containing the same objects in a mystic procession. And the druids may have worshipped using an ark or oblong chest. I have to say we don't know a whole lot about the druids. Too old, too long ago. We don't know much about them. The Lotus moving to Asian culture is another such arc, representing a ship on the eternal ocean of time, with the calyx representing the female principle and the flower sitting out of it, the male principle. Picture the lotus. The lotus is a revered symbol across religious traditions, even though it is most closely associated with Hinduism and Buddhism. Brahma emerges from the lotus on the dark waters of an empty universe. And after a millennium of contemplation, he produces the perfect male and perfect female from his right, left side, respectively, in the form of the lily, says Jennings. This symbolism crossed into Hebrew and Christian tradition, appearing in the temple of Solomon. A lily is a lotus is a lily. Ritual prostitution. This is so fascinating. Jacob's eyebrows went up. Ritual prostitution is another cross cultural tradition that demonstrates the overlap of sex and religions. The temples of Ball and Venus had a tradition in which a woman was expected to prostitute herself on behalf of the temple once in her lifetime, with the money going to the temple itself.

[Anna Pavon]

It was a fundraiser, an old fashioned fundraiser.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Very old fashioned. This, this female accepted any money given to her and the business was done outside the house of worship. You got to keep, you know, keep it on the up and up. Yeah. In Hebrew tradition, the first book of Samuel says that the sons of Eli lay with the women who assembled at the tabernacle of the congregation, suggesting a similar form of sex worship. The Bible's full of fun surprises, isn't it?

[Jacob Wheatley]

They left out all the good stuff.

[Anna Pavon]

I just love reading in between the lines of the Bible.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Because there's always those lines and you're like, whoa, what's going on there? Jennings also identifies divine prostitutes in service of Sakti. Sakti is, in Jennings interpretation, goddess of the Volva, although she's more properly called in Hindu culture, simply the Goddess. A naked girl serves as an effigy for the goddess and is given meat and wine in the goddess's place. This is a popular version of tantric worship circulated in books about Indian religion in the 19th century. So not necessarily a direct reflection on what was happening, but this is what Jennings would have read about Tantric practice at the time. Okay, but this is my favorite. Oh, Saving the best for near the end. Moving to the roots of Christian Easter.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Uh. Oh, yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

This isn't gonna be hard. Now, you guys can practically do this for me, can't you? Jenning observes a springtime tradition of erotic baking. Okay, so that's a surprise that began in pagan Europe and continued into the Christian era. In springtime, ancient Chaldeans dyed eggs in a traditional rite celebrating fertility, and they bake Cakes and breads to resemble male and female genitals. Why are we obsessed with rabbits, the horniest of the creatures at Easter time? Why is there a rabbit that comes to our child's home? Why do we dye eggs? What do they have to do with Jesus? Jesus gave his life on a cross. What does that have to do with eggs and rabbits? Nothing.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Oh, my God.

[Anna Pavon]

I'm having like an epiphany.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I think we're all doing pagan fertility worship every Easter season. Or at least you Christians are.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Wow.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yep.

[Anna Pavon]

When did. When did the whole Easter bunny thing kind of come into play, though?

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, nobody knows. I mean, according to Jennings, it goes all the way back to the ancient Chaldeans.

[Anna Pavon]

Wow.

[Rob C. Thompson]

So like, pre Christian cultures were engaging in this as fertility rights. I would say on it, like, if you think about a lot of. I know, sorry, listeners who talk about this a bit on the show, but Christmas, we bring a giant bush inside.

[Anna Pavon]

Yes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's a super pagan thing to do, to bring greenery in the house. There's nothing to do with Jesus being born. He was born in a desert.

[Anna Pavon]

Riley Claxton and I used. Well, her. Her last name's not that anymore. But we had this conversation actually about how the trees are a pagan thing.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Because, you know, the Christians Christianized Europe and Europe was pagan and all those pagan traditions more or less persisted. I mean, Jennings is suggesting they're even more ancient than, you know, European pagan traditions that survived. But still, that's basically what happened. We just kept all that pagan stuff. Halloween.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, Come on. All Hallows Eve.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I mean, in medieval Europe there would be, you know, the New Year's Eve, New Year's Day. They would, you know, people be running around naked and partying and not much has changed then to a certain extent. I don't know if we still run around naked, but.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Well, some people do, but depends on how the night goes.

[Rob C. Thompson]

But I want to talk about penis bread.

[Anna Pavon]

The braided one. Is it the braided one?

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, this is French bread, so I don't know if you're gonna braid it. In Christian France, in Saintonge, penis shaped cakes were baked at Easter and the town of Saints, or Saints held les fetes de pines or the festival of the penises, which included women and children parading penis shaped bread through the streets on Palm Sunday to be blessed by a priest.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Why don't we do this anymore?

[Rob C. Thompson]

I know.

[Anna Pavon]

No, now you just split the shaft in two and make them bunny ears.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Ouch.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That did hurt me as well.

[D]

Palm is to be remembered is a euphemism of the male organ, and it is curious to see it united with the phall in Christendom. Dular also says that in some of the earlier unedited French books on cookery, recipes are given for making cakes of the salacious form in question, which are broadly named. He further tells us that those cakes symbolize the male in lower limousine and especially at Brives. While the female emblem was adopted at Claremont, in Auvergne and other places.

[Rob C. Thompson]

In the caves of Ellora, which may sound familiar going all the way back to our Emma Harding Britain episode. The Chevalier Lewis de Be achieved his occult ascension in the caves of Ellora. John B. Seely discovered beautiful statues and emblems carved into the rock. This is actual historical truth. In addition to the usual phallic obelisks, the cave featured a small temple with a large lingam covered with oil, red ochre and flowers, sort of a penis. The lingam associated with Shiva. Seelie said this deity is much frequented by female votaries who take especial care to keep it clean and often perfume it with odoriferous oils and flowers. Whilst the attendant Brahmans sweep the apartment and attend the five oil lights and bell ringing. Barren women visit the lingam to improve their fertility. Jennings, drawing on other scholars, speculates as to what that ritual might look like. The women, he says, may have kissed the tip or rubbed their naked body against it, or sat down on it naked.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I mean, obviously do what you gotta do.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's really good. Like if he was alive, he would be a great guest speaker.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I'd like to hear one of those songs. Right?

[Rob C. Thompson]

What a fun conversation. Yeah. All right. Agree with him or not. That's a fun conversation.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Although I don't exactly believe Jennings has proven that genital worship was the heart or original form of all worship, I personally, Rob Thompson, do accept that in ancient cultures, east and west, sex had a more obvious role in religious devotion than it tends to, at least in the major world religions today. Still, the question of meaning lingers. Pillars or penises? French people bake vagina bread for Easter. So what? Jennings tries to get at this question, but he really talks around it, affirming an sort of occult interpretation of the overlap between sex and spirituality. It's a mystery, he says. Jennings beloved Rosicrucians or RC Brothers, profess to hold themselves aloof from the con from contact with women. But their primary symbols of the rose and the cross. Yeah, right. Clearly represent the union of the vagina and the penis. There's A lot of sexual imagery, too, in Rosicrushianism. I mean, that. The chemical wedding. I mean, you can hear the words the chemical wedding. It's in part about alchemy. It's a part about symbolism. It's about the soul coming down to earth and ascending to heaven. And it's also about a male and female getting together. I mean, all this all through symbolically. For Jennings, the Rosicrucians had penetrated to a mystical meaning behind these symbols.

[D]

The rose is feminine. Its lustrous carmine petals are guarded with thorns. The rose is the most beautiful of flowers. The rose is the queen of God's garden. It is not the rose alone which is the magical idea or truth, but it is the crucified rose or the martyred rose by the grand mystic, apocalyptic figure, which is the talisman, the standard, the object of adoration of all the sons of wisdom or of the true Rosicrucians. How this latter assertion should be intelligible and be real can only be seen, of course, mystically in the conviction of the genuine members of the rc.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Right.

[Anna Pavon]

The experienced.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yes. In other words, what exactly Jennings means by this is not especially clear, which he more or less admits. But he clarifies earlier that martyrdom in this context is not about physical death. Rather, as Anna saying, martyrdom has something to do with the transformation of the virgin into the Magdalene, the white woman into the red woman, virgin into experienced woman.

[Anna Pavon]

I mean, this is the first thing that came to my head. Experience. Not in, like, had a lot, but, like, had experienced the event.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, I mean, if we're thinking 19th century terms, one experience is enough. Yeah, no, you're not a virgin anymore.

[Anna Pavon]

Truth.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I mean, we still talk in those terms. We just don't make so much of it. I hope sex is what we're talking about here, as we have been. To worship the martyred rose is to worship the sexually active woman, the pregnant mother, the sacred harlot. In his essay on the mystical nature of sex, Jennings says that sex is the union of the males, half sex, and the female's half sex, to form the whole sex or hermaphrodite. Yeah, wild.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That is pretty wild.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Jennings says that the magic of the sex organs is evident in the fact that we conceal them. If we did not conceal our sex organs, then they would lose their magical power and we would lose our desire for each other. I don't know that the. This is true, but it's an interesting idea.

[Anna Pavon]

If there are any nudist listeners.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yes, let us know, please let us know if you're constantly looking at penises and vaginas. Are you not interested in them anymore? This is most evident in the case of the female. The feminine is a kind of sexual ideal, with the more feminine male as the standard for male beauty. Apollo, Dionysus and Adonis rather than Mars and Hercules. Jacob, I would say you and I do not identify as female, highly masculine men. We're more gender fluid in our.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Performance. So we're also prettier.

[Jacob Wheatley]

We are pretty.

[D]

In a certain sense. A beautiful, perfectly formed, naked woman is singular and unexpected as the expression may seem until the appreciation realizes the reasons. A terrible object, we mean in the sense, the abstract sense of awe at her, as wonder, as the work of a maker, and as the presentation of her as temptation.

[Rob C. Thompson]

The virgin is magical because of her availability, the prospect of conception. But she loses her magic to pregnancy. She no longer possesses the allure of the possibility of procreation. However, if a woman withholds herself and remains a virgin for too long, she becomes suspect in the eyes of society. Her power becomes too great or perhaps perverted by time. So there's really no way to maintain that virginal magic. Jennings is speaking, of course, from the perspective of, as I've said many times, the 19th century and Victorian sexual values. But much of this strange cultural mystery of sex and sexuality persists for us today. In different terms. Pornography trades in the barely legal teen as well as the milf, the virgin and the sexually experienced woman. Women fret over their biological clock and are considered mature if giving birth in their mid-30s. And we continue to marginalize sex workers, most obviously in the way they're treated by social media platforms where near naked influencers can rack up deals to sell skincare products, but porn actresses can't link to their OnlyFans page. Think about this for a second, right? If you're in your bikini and you're playing the virgin, that's often a more lucrative role than going whole hog into pornography. Yeah, so I'm just. I don't know the answer here. I'm just talking through how Jennings is, in a way touching into issues that are present. Like he's talking about us.

[Jacob Wheatley]

They are pretty prevalent issues like today.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah, he's talking about Victorian America and England, but he's also talking about to us right now. He's talking about Instagram.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Wow.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Despite all these complexities, particularly for the female of the species, pregnancy is the ultimate goal of the sexual urge and invites divinity into the conjugal bed or couch or floor, wherever you're at that's me.

[Anna Pavon]

I was gonna say. Did Jennings say that?

[Rob C. Thompson]

No, that's. I don't think he would have included the floor. This was the Victorian period. On a. Or the mat or the back seat, whatever. The back seat of your carriage.

[Anna Pavon]

The horse's back.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Oh, my. Holy hell. I don't want to even. Sex itself, no matter whether it is performed reverently as a spiritual act or in the most depraved way imaginable, invites the presence of God. If it results in conception, the procreative act is rendered supernatural by the presence of the divine, who stamps his image on. On the child conceived in the womb. No matter how you're doing it, this doesn't so much answer the complexities of the naked female, virginal or with child. It just further shows how very complicated all of this is. I'm winding to a conclusion here, so just so you know, I'm not gonna give you guys anything satisfying on Jennings. He's a man who just charts the mystery. That's all he's doing. He's sort of like us in many ways. All Jennings is doing is circling around the mystery of sex as a human experience, complete with its contradictions and neuroses. Finally, he has no solution to the questions he raises. And this is in part his point. The fact that sex poses these mysteries renders it an object for intense reverence, but also shame. We are driven, perplexed, and obsessed with sex for good reason. There's nothing simple and everything consequential about it. On that, Jennings and I can agree. And while the scholarship. While his scholarship is subject to doubt, particularly today, his humility in the face of his subject is something we can all learn from. That's Jennings. Guys, final thoughts.

[Anna Pavon]

That's a lot to unpack.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I agree.

[Jacob Wheatley]

I mean, he's not really wrong. Sex is kind of in everything.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah. Yeah. And it continues to be tough to be sexually active and tough to be a virgin and particularly tough to be a woman.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, Right.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Am I right? Anna? You're the woman.

[Anna Pavon]

I am the woman.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Female.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah. It can be tough to be a woman.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I mean, does this. Was it what he's described? Does that ring true for you? You know, there's a desire to be desired, but also you're shamed for seeking desire.

[Anna Pavon]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Given the attention, if.

[Anna Pavon]

Well, the whole thing, like you've probably heard before, if you have a lot of sex, you're a slut. If you don't, you're a.

[Jacob Wheatley]

You get shamed no matter what.

[Anna Pavon]

You get shamed. No matter what. And. And people like you said that they desire virgins. And. But they also. It's so. It's so strange because it's. All he's saying now is still so true.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Yeah, people want that. There's that virginal allure, that virgin power, but there's also the power of the sexually experienced woman.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah. It just. It makes you think, like, is anything actually going to change? Like, is it. Because if it's been happening for that long, like, is that the nature of human beings? Or is that, like, are we just fucked.

[Jacob Wheatley]

If he was even saying it, like, then and like, I mean, yeah, people are more, like, open and they discuss things and you can post things or whatever, like now. But even if he was like, hey, this is a thing, or issues are back then, and we're still like that. It's. It's progress, but slow progress.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I mean, I think what we were talking about earlier, as we were sort of joking around a little bit, but there's something to it, like the spiritualization of sex, you know, of the engagement with the vagina of the origin. There's a solution in there that a woman can be desirable and a sexual being and someone that I want to have sex with out of an attitude of respect and reverence and desire, like, these things can go hand in hand. I don't want to go too out on a limb here, but I worry that on left and right, you know, on the right, there's a sort of demonization of sex. On the left, there's been some of this going on too. I understand it's to protect people, but we also have to bear in mind that part of what it does is say that, you know, it criminalizes desire.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Which we can't really control. We desire who we desire. We then have to act responsibly and respectfully. But is it necessarily wrong to communicate desire? Is maybe my question. I guess it depends on the circumstances.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah. Depends on how you go about communicating your desire.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I mean, a part of what bothers me or what has bothered me lately. And this is, you know, this will be my generational divide with you guys, which, by the way, you guys are increasingly getting more distant from my current students who are of a different generation from my millennials. Yeah. How about that? But, you know, even the millennials, you know, the younger millennials would tell me, I don't want to be approached, Rob, in person. I don't, you know, a heterosexual female would say to me, I don't want to be approached by a male in person. I would rather it happen on the Internet. So that would mean that, you know, if a man sees you in class or whatever. I think this is true, but probably maybe in the gay community, too. Jacob. I don't know that it's just harder and harder to express desire in person. The people that view that as too aggressive to even say, you know, hey, I think you're pretty cool. Do you want to go out later? If it's in person, this is viewed as too aggressive. I don't. I mean, that's how I met Went. Like, that's. That's how I used to do it. Like, if you're respectful, I don't understand.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah. I can't even say, like, one instance of actually, like, being out and someone coming up just to actually, like, hate on or anything like that. It's just not as.

[Anna Pavon]

It's. Yeah. It's just so unheard of now. And, yeah, I think, like, people have had a lot of trauma when it comes to people approaching them or like, they've been. Again, like social media. They've spoke out on things now. So now there's this generalization of, oh, you know, that this isn't safe if somebody approaches me. Oh, I don't know, you. You know, like, the world is a different place now, and it's scary to meet strangers when in reality, like, it could be okay. I'm speaking only from my own experience because I'm lucky enough that everything has been okay.

[Rob C. Thompson]

But not that the Internet's protecting you, though. I mean, you meet a man on Tinder.

[Anna Pavon]

Absolutely not. I mean, there's a whole show. Catfish. Like, there's creeps out there no matter what. I think people are just taking a different approach now because, I don't know.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I think we're losing our ability to have the co present. Maybe people are feeling less secure in their ability to judge each other and decide who's safe and whether someone's being honest. Maybe the Internet and the phone is taking away our ability to look each other in the eye and say, oh, yeah, this person's honest. Yeah.

[Anna Pavon]

Maybe in each other, maybe in ourselves. We're judging ourselves.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Isn't there something sexy, something magical about seeing a human body in space and being attracted to that body and expressing that desire and hearing that that person is also attracted to you.

[Anna Pavon]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Can't do that anymore.

[Anna Pavon]

I know. I think. I think people still do experience that too, but maybe they just don't follow through with the actual action and talking.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, you experience desire for sure, right?

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah. Unless you're in a particular setting because, like in. In, I know, like sororities and fraternities. That is a big thing. Like people do approach each other because that also is a place where a lot of sex happens.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Or like a dance club. Is that not still a thing?

[Anna Pavon]

A dance club? Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

What the hell am I doing?

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah, no, it's true.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Disco, discotheques, what the hell.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That's the only places that, like, I do take it back a little bit. Some of the gay clubs and stuff like that that I've been to, obviously it's breeding pool essentially, but like, that's. People will constantly come up or like stare across the room and then make your move and whatnot.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Well, the gay issue now, Jacob, for me is the gay clubs are closing. Aren't we losing gay clubs?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, I was. There's like three.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Maybe it's the Internet that's killing them, isn't it?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Kinda, yeah. They're like. And well, that's a big thing. Most of the ones in like DC and stuff like that, they started closing down because of. They were just trying to build more houses and whatnot. And then also gentrified it. Yeah. And then some of the other more like sex clubs and stuff like that. There's like, I think maybe one like left out of those, but the rest of them are closed down just because of. It's a consistent battle, just the gays having just dance clubs and stuff like that.

[Anna Pavon]

So I heard it's also an issue of straight people just infiltrating their space.

[Jacob Wheatley]

That is such a common thing that, like, obviously everyone is welcome no matter what.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah.

[Jacob Wheatley]

But like, there towards the end, before some of the ones that I used to go to, it was. It was such a common thing that, like, it's. It's like a place to go and express yourself. But then it's a lot of guy and girl couples and stuff like that, like showing up because she wants to, like, come and he's tagging along.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Right.

[Anna Pavon]

Well, so I was with some. Some girlfriends of mine in Atlanta, and we actually did go to a gay club, but we were having a conversation to a guy, I mean, with a guy about if they were comfortable with straight women coming into a space where, you know, they were obviously looking for a partner for whatever, you know, in their own community. And this particular person didn't mind. However, I went upstairs and some guys started talking to us and I was. I was just a little bit confused because that wasn't what I was expecting. And he said, oh, I'm straight. I just come here because all the straight girls come here. And I was like, that's kind of fucked. Like, what are you doing?

[Jacob Wheatley]

Common thing to happen. And, like, it's. And obviously, like, I have a lot of, like, gay friends and stuff like that who are. I mean, it's not like we'll tell anyone to. No, like, not come. And, like, I know I've had a few friends in the past, gal pals and whatnot, that they, like, go to gay clubs because it feels more of, like, a safer environment in general. And like, yeah, like, that's awesome. Like, it's good. Everyone should feel comfortable where they're at. But, like, mostly, like, straight guys, like, coming in, too. And then, like, it's. It's pushing the people that out almost that it was originally tended for and not that, like, excluding anyone because everyone should be included in, like, things, but it became less and less of a thing, like, even, like, drag shows and stuff like that. It's very few gay friends and stuff that I have, like, would go to those things anymore because it's not like, our culture thing anymore.

[Rob C. Thompson]

It's mainstream.

[Jacob Wheatley]

It's becoming mainstream, and it's becoming less of, like, what it meant to the community.

[Rob C. Thompson]

RuPaul.

[Jacob Wheatley]

RuPaul. Oh, my gosh. Don't even get me started.

[Anna Pavon]

Yeah, there's a. There's a drug. Everybody goes. Everyone goes. So that makes sense.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's been happening for decades. I mean, gay culture, gay, black culture, I mean, had been appropriated. Madonna, like, we go back to Madonna before, even where they're appropriating and, like, the backup dancers, like, they're all being drawn from the same place. Yeah. But now it's sort of disappearing because it's been swallowed too much. You guys have become too mainstream.

[Jacob Wheatley]

We are too mainstream.

[Rob C. Thompson]

That's successful.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah, it's. Everyone assumes all the gays like RuPaul. I know maybe a handful that actually do.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Seems like a lot of work to be RuPaul.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Yeah.

[Rob C. Thompson]

All right, Jacob, do you know how to bring us home?

[Jacob Wheatley]

I hereby declare close this secret meeting of the Chemical actors until such a time as we get together and do it again.

[Rob C. Thompson]

It's mostly good. But I have to always remind people the meeting is not secret on account of they can hear us in Sweden.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Oh, I did it, too.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Our voices today include Lou Kinnaman and Andrew Mims. My name is Rob Thompson, joined by Jacob Wheatley, Knight of the Dangling Serpent.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Good. Good night.

[Rob C. Thompson]

Good and nuts.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Good night. And be gay, be straight, be phallic, you know?

[Rob C. Thompson]

Do you be Yanni Anna Pavon, who doesn't have a title yet, but if she keeps this up, it's inevitable.

[Jacob Wheatley]

Inevitable.

[Rob C. Thompson]

I know the inevitable. Oh, hold on to that one. Back pocket that. Join us next time when we talk about Orgone and orgasm. Yes, we're talking about. Right. Likes Orgone boxes and his vision of orgasm as a liberation for humankind. And an answer, perhaps to fascism here on Occult Confess. Can't wait, Sam.