Odd Lots Podcast Summary

Episode: Henry Wang on China's Role in the New Emerging World Order
Date: September 19, 2025
Host(s): Joe Weisenthal & Tracy Alloway (Bloomberg)
Guest: Dr. Henry Wang, Founder and President, Center for China and Globalization (CCG)

Overview

This episode explores China’s evolving role within the global order, especially amid ongoing US-China tensions. Dr. Henry Wang offers an insider’s perspective on how China views economic globalization, its ambitions for global governance, the country’s security philosophy, and its relationships with the US, Europe, BRICS, and the global south. The conversation contrasts Western and Chinese ideas of internationalism, unpacks current trade frictions, and debates whether existing global institutions can adapt or must be replaced.

Key Topics & Insights

1. About CCG: China’s Independent Bridge with the World

[04:05]

• What is CCG? Founded post-2008 Olympics to foster global dialogue and research on critical issues such as the US-China relationship and global governance.
• Dr. Wang:

  "CCG is a bridge, a communication platform... for big issues, policy issues regarding US and China, global governance, global economy..." (04:13)

• CCG is ranked among the world’s top 100 think tanks and operates internationally, orchestrating 100+ events yearly.

2. China’s View on Globalization

[11:20]

• Chinese globalization is primarily economic, less focused on ideology or security alliances.
• Dr. Wang credits globalization for lifting 800 million people out of poverty and integrating China into global trade, education, and technological supply chains.
• Chinese definition:

  "...the globalization concept in the Chinese mind is really more referred to the economic globalization because that's the benefit they're getting substantially." (11:20)

• Contrasts with Western ideals of globalization encompassing social and political alignment.

3. US-China Relations: Competition, Coexistence, and Security

[08:55; 29:29]

• Both countries are deeply interdependent, but rivalry has intensified since 2017 and the Trump administration’s focus on strategic competition.
• Dr. Wang on current sentiment:

  "...we have to coexist peacefully... that's probably the conclusion that we're getting there." (09:51)

• Chinese anxieties center on US military presence in the region, particularly near Taiwan.

  "...we see the US military person is very strong... US parade of military muscles all the time. So that's a little bothering for the Chinese." (31:07)

• Dr. Wang argues that China has no colonizing or expansionist ambitions and prefers competition through economics and soft power.

4. China’s Role in Global Security and Peacekeeping

[17:48; 20:45]

• China sees itself as a stabilizer in a multipolar world, preferring large-scale economic cooperation over military alliances.
• On Ukraine: Dr. Wang suggests BRICS and China could bolster peacekeeping credibility, potentially building future models for mediation in other conflicts.
• China’s security philosophy is rooted in historical non-intervention and a desire for economic, rather than military, influence:

  "...China wants to really see, let's have a level playing field and let's really compete on economic [grounds]." (22:28)

5. Future of Global Institutions: Reform or Replace?

[24:22; 27:02]

• Debate over whether Western-rooted institutions (UN, WTO, etc.) can remain relevant.
• Wang advocates reform and reinvestment in bodies like the UN—China is now a major financial supporter—while also building parallel frameworks (BRICS Bank, Belt and Road, regional summits):

  "China is a strong support of existing UN system... But on the other hand, we see UN also getting quite marginalized..." (27:02)

6. Misunderstandings Between China and the US

[28:54]

• Most common concern among Chinese is perceived US interference in regional affairs, military presence, and support for Taiwan.
• The question of different governance and democracy models is a recurring flashpoint.

7. China, Global South, and Shifting Alliances Post-Gaza

[33:06; 33:44]

• China’s ties with BRICS, ASEAN, and the Middle East are deepening, especially as countries reconsider the US’s "global policeman" role after Gaza and Ukraine.
• China has pursued mediation efforts (e.g. Saudi-Iran deal) and is positioning itself as a peace broker.

8. Unfairness in the Global Economic System

[37:45]

• Wang critiques the US focus on goods trade deficits, noting the complex value chains and fact that US multinationals benefit from operations in China.
• Ongoing grievances include US sanctions (especially around tech and semiconductors):

  "...there are 1,500 Chinese companies on the US entity list. I mean maybe China has a dozen or two dozen of US companies. But compared with magnitude of US is too much." (39:02)

9. Industrial Policy and Supply Chain Diversification

[41:29; 42:26]

• China is comfortable with lower-end manufacturing moving to ASEAN and elsewhere but focuses on developing high-end industries (EVs, green tech).
• No major efforts by the government to curb offshoring, except in sensitive sectors.

10. Openness and Liberalization

[44:38]

• Wang advocates for China’s continued economic opening: reducing visa restrictions, capital controls, and encouraging foreign educational partnerships.

  "...China should be more open and that's why we be that's our think tank role to promote that." (44:38)

11. On Security Concerns and Manufacturing Dominance

[47:48]

• Wang argues US security concerns over deindustrialization and tech transfer miss the point of deeply intertwined supply chains and mutual benefit, warning against "over-securitization."

12. Sanctions and Future Diplomacy

[49:53; 50:52]

• Wang suggests rather than sanctions, China prefers reinforcing multilateral institutions (potentially reforming the UN Security Council), and using diplomatic and peacekeeping means for conflict resolution.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "We have to coexist peacefully. That's probably the conclusion that we're getting there."
  – Henry Wang, 09:51
• "Globalization in the Chinese mind is really more referred to the economic globalization because that's the benefit they're getting."
  – Henry Wang, 11:20
• "China wants to really see, let's have a level playing field and let's really compete on economic [grounds]."
  – Henry Wang, 22:28
• "Made in China is made for the world."
  – Henry Wang, 48:24
• "UN specifically... is the future more okay? If we're going to have this sort of new style of globalization, we actually genuinely need new organizations rather than the husks of the organizations that were built out of the Western liberal order."
  – Joe Weisenthal, 24:22
• "Most common concern among Chinese that we see the US navies coming to Chinese Taiwan street or South China Sea..."
  – Henry Wang, 29:32
• "Diplomacy through dance videos, Joe. And then comes an easing of currency restrictions."
  – Tracy Alloway, 46:18

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:05] CCG's mission and role as a global bridge
• [11:20] What globalization means to China
• [17:48] China’s place in multipolar security and peacekeeping talks
• [24:22]-[27:02] Reforming or replacing global institutions, role of the UN
• [28:54] Common Chinese misunderstandings of US intentions
• [33:44] BRICS, China, and mediation in the Middle East
• [37:45] China’s grievances about global economic "unfairness"
• [42:26] China’s comfort level with supply chain shifts to ASEAN/India
• [44:38] Calls for greater Chinese economic openness
• [47:48] Security, manufacturing, and supply chain interdependence

Conclusion and Takeaways

Dr. Henry Wang presents a perspective of China as a committed economic globalizer, seeking a stable and multipolar world where multilateral institutions—old and new—play a central, more inclusive role. The Chinese view, as articulated, is deeply pragmatic and economically focused, wary of ideology-driven division and military alliances, and increasingly confident in a post-Western, multi-aligned order. Both the US and China seem resigned to deep interdependence, even as frictions persist, but differ profoundly in the institutions, philosophy, and security arrangements they favor for the future. The podcast closes debating whether the world needs a new "global policeman" or a new model altogether.