Odd Lots Podcast Summary: "How to Make Money Selling Pizza in New York City"

Release Date: August 2, 2025
Hosts: Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway
Guests: James Shields, Alex Xianopoulos, and Evan Xenopoulos

Introduction: Navigating NYC's Pizza Landscape

In this engaging episode of Bloomberg's Odd Lots, hosts Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway delve into the intricate economics of running a pizza business in New York City. Joined by industry veterans James Shields, Alex Xianopoulos, and Evan Xenopoulos, the conversation explores the challenges and opportunities within a highly saturated and competitive market.

Saturation and Entrepreneurial Spirit

Joe initiates the discussion by questioning the viability of opening a new pizza restaurant in the overcrowded East Village. He muses, “[00:30] Joe Weisenthal: I would not have the guts to open up a new pizza restaurant. I would just assume that the market is saturated view” ([02:12]).

Alex counters this skepticism by highlighting a unique opportunity that arose post-pandemic: “[04:53] James Shields: During the pandemic, a bunch of established places went out of business, creating a pizza desert in Midtown, specifically around 52nd Street. This opened a green space for new entrants like us” ([05:45]).

Operational Essentials: Quality Ingredients and Pricing Strategy

The guests emphasize the importance of ingredient quality and pricing in differentiating their pizza offerings. Alex explains their premium approach: “[10:10] Alex Xianopoulos: We position ourselves as a premium product with the best, freshest ingredients. We ferment our dough for 48 hours, compared to the typical 24 hours, making our slices healthier and less heavy” ([10:07]).

James adds, “[07:34] Joe Weisenthal: How do you get to that best plain slice? It was one of our big motivating factors” ([07:34]), underscoring their commitment to classic flavors while maintaining high standards.

Capital Investments: The High Cost of Equipment

A significant portion of the conversation centers around the hefty initial investments required for restaurant equipment. James shares a personal anecdote: “[12:41] James Shields: Our oven cost $32,000 three years ago, and now it's $45,000. Additionally, specialized equipment like our pizza shredder costs $5,000” ([13:10]).

He further discusses the challenges posed by supply chain disruptions: “[13:14] Tracey Alloway: ...a hiccup during our construction as we needed a smoke hog, which is the ventilation precipitator. We were delayed four months waiting for one piece of equipment” ([14:15]).

Labor Challenges: Skill and Retention

The podcast delves into the complexities of hiring skilled labor for artisanal pizza making. Alex highlights the extensive training required: “[18:02] Alex Xianopoulos: Artisanal products like wood-fired pizza require employees who can master the craft over years” ([18:14]).

Evan echoes the difficulty in maintaining a stable workforce: “[30:05] James Shields: We trial about 10 out of 30 candidates, with varying retention rates” ([30:05]).

Distribution and Delivery Models

Efficient distribution is crucial for maintaining pizza quality. James recounts their flexible delivery methods: “[22:03] James Shields: We've rented U-Hauls, used personal cars, and even delivered orders ourselves to ensure timely delivery” ([22:56]).

They discuss the reliance on local clientele and the limitations of third-party delivery services, noting increased costs and control issues.

Economic Pressures: Inflation and Third-Party Fees

The discussion shifts to the rising costs impacting the pizza business. Alex breaks down the cost structure: “[25:44] Alex Xianopoulos: Historically, it's been 30% fixed costs, 30% labor, 30% food costs, and 10% profit. Now, labor has increased to 45%” ([25:44]).

The hosts address the burden of third-party delivery fees: “[30:05] James Shields: Third-party fees are reverting to 20%, significantly impacting our pricing strategy” ([31:34]).

Evan criticizes these entities as “parasitic” for disrupting the food industry and squeezing restaurant margins ([32:11]).

Regulatory Hurdles and Political Impact

Regulatory challenges pose additional obstacles. James shares frustrations with compliance: “[41:13] James Shields: Opening a new gas service can delay our operations indefinitely” ([42:12]).

Evan discusses the overregulation affecting restaurant operations: “[38:09] Alex Xianopoulos: Overregulation is the biggest problem moving forward. It complicates permitting and operational processes” ([38:40]).

The conversation touches on local politics, with Evan expressing concerns about Mayor Adams’s policies potentially increasing burdens on small businesses.

State of the NYC Economy and Future Outlook

The guests convey a cautiously optimistic view of NYC's recovery post-pandemic. James notes increased catering orders and foot traffic: “[46:27] James Shields: After the holiday cycle, we're seeing up to 25% growth compared to last year” ([46:08]).

However, they acknowledge ongoing uncertainties related to expenses and market volatility. Evan attributes long-term optimism to Midtown East's strategic location and transportation network: “[48:46] Evan Xenopoulos: The transportation nexus around Midtown East will drive long-term growth” ([48:11]).

Conclusion: Resilience and Adaptation in the Pizza Industry

The episode concludes with a reflection on the resilience required to succeed in NYC's pizza market. Tracy sums up the key challenges and the necessity for continuous adaptation: “[51:19] Joe Weisenthal: I have empathy now upon realizing that I'm one of those gluten people” ([51:19]).

The guests express gratitude for the opportunity to share their insights, highlighting the intricate balance between quality, cost management, and strategic growth essential for thriving in the competitive landscape of New York City's pizza industry.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Weisenthal: “I would not have the guts to open up a new pizza restaurant. I would just assume that the market is saturated view.” ([02:12])

• Alex Xianopoulos: “We ferment our dough for 48 hours...making our slices healthier and less heavy.” ([10:07])

• James Shields: “Our oven cost $32,000 three years ago, and now it's $45,000.” ([13:10])

• Alex Xianopoulos: “Overregulation is the biggest problem moving forward.” ([38:40])

• Evan Xenopoulos: “Third-party services are parasitic entities... decimating the industry.” ([32:11])

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the multifaceted discussion on the economics, operations, and strategic considerations of running a pizza business in New York City, providing valuable insights for entrepreneurs and industry enthusiasts alike.