Lots More on What's Going On in Iran's Markets

Summary

Odd Lots: Lots More on What's Going On in Iran's Markets

Bloomberg | Release Date: June 27, 2025

In the latest episode of Bloomberg’s Odd Lots, hosts Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway delve deep into the complexities of Iran’s financial landscape. Titled "Lots More on What's Going On in Iran's Markets," the episode features insightful conversations with Matija Voital, CEO and CIO of Antalon Capital, an Amsterdam-based fund manager specializing in Iranian stocks. This detailed summary captures the episode’s key discussions, insights, and conclusions, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners who haven’t tuned in.

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1. Introduction to Iran’s Economic Landscape

The episode opens with Mark Reap setting the stage by highlighting Iran's significant economic standing:

Mark Reap [05:28]: "Iran is actually the 37th biggest economy in the world by nominal GDP... Its scale of underdevelopment is like 10x."

Matija Voital elaborates on the linguistic challenges of discussing such a complex economy, noting the unique aspects of Iranian market dynamics.

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2. The Tehran Stock Exchange and Market Operations

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the Tehran Stock Exchange (TSE), which Matija Voital describes as:

Matija Voital [05:03]: "It's around $150 billion... We are the only source of this information."

Reap emphasizes the size and diversity of the TSE:

Mark Reap [05:08]: "The Tehran Stock Exchange has more than 600 companies and is worth around $150 billion."

Matija highlights the difficulties in accessing up-to-date information due to internet shutdowns and sanctions, making outside analysis challenging.

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3. Impact of Geopolitical Events on Iran’s Markets

Recent geopolitical tensions, including the exchange of fire between Iran and Israel, have severely impacted market operations:

Mark Reap [07:11]: "The stock market hasn't opened… economic activity was supposed to resume on a Sunday, but they didn't open."

Voital underscores the volatility and challenges faced:

Matija Voital [07:34]: "Every point is, every once in a while I'm going to check in and see how Tel Aviv is trading on a Sunday or something like that."

Reap and Voital discuss how the market’s closure during critical periods, such as religious holidays and military conflicts, creates uncertainty and hampers economic stability.

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4. Operational Challenges for Investors

Investing in Iran presents unique operational hurdles, including:

• Sanctions and Due Diligence: Voital explains the complexities of navigating sanctions, which require meticulous due diligence for each investment decision.

  Matija Voital [09:16]: "You have to do due diligence on every single decision…"

• Currency Exchange Issues: The absence of SWIFT connectivity complicates currency transfers, often taking up to nine months.

  Mark Reap [10:02]: "We have to solve the problems of exchanging currency... It took nine months altogether."

Despite these challenges, Antalon Capital leverages alternative payment corridors and cryptocurrency exchanges to navigate the financial landscape:

Matija Voital [10:45]: "We could track the exchange rate of the Iranian rial versus dollar…"

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5. Performance and Sectors of the Iranian Stock Market

Mark Reap provides an overview of the TSE’s sector composition:

Mark Reap [17:34]: "The stock market is well diversified with sectors like chemicals, steel, car manufacturing, financials, and building materials."

Voital adds that:

Matija Voital [28:35]: "You have privately held companies that would like to IPO, but they are just waiting for approval from the regulator…"

The conversation highlights the resilience of key sectors despite geopolitical instability, with the stock market showing growth in profits even as valuations decrease:

Mark Reap [21:53]: "Profits continued to grow, but the stock market was going down… valuations are just cheaper and cheaper."

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6. Opportunities and Future Outlook

The hosts explore the potential for significant economic growth contingent on geopolitical shifts:

Mark Reap [22:36]: "The catalyst is absolutely clear. It must be the opening up of Iran as a country and opening up of the economy. And sanctions lifted…"

Voital discusses the “optionality” in investing in Iran’s markets, emphasizing the rare opportunity to access a frontier market with substantial growth potential:

Matija Voital [22:34]: "This is the biggest optionality in public markets that you can find."

They speculate on scenarios that could unlock Iran’s economic potential, such as political changes leading to the lifting of sanctions and increased foreign investment:

Mark Reap [23:31]: "Proper agreement that lists sanctions… opens up the country to everyone, including US Investors… unlocking potential growth from $250 billion to $2.3 trillion GDP."

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7. Internal Developments and Capital Controls

The episode addresses internal crackdowns and their impact on capital controls:

Mark Reap [26:09]: "Capital controls have been in place for Iranian entities for some time… foreign investors find it difficult to access, but large multinational companies maintain their operations."

Voital reassures that despite internal challenges, Iran remains open to foreign investment, offering government guarantees and incentives such as residency for significant investments:

Matija Voital [26:33]: "There are programs designed to make your life easier… you get a residency in Iran if you invest around €200,000."

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8. Insights on Technology and Private Markets

Reap and Voital touch upon the tech sector within Iran’s markets, noting the presence of enterprise software companies and promising private firms awaiting IPO approval:

Mark Reap [28:33]: "The ones that are listed are related to enterprise software… you have Snap, which is like an Uber, and Digicala, like Amazon."

They highlight the potential for substantial growth in the private sector, urging investors to watch for these emerging companies:

Matija Voital [28:23]: "Look out for them."

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9. Conclusion and Future Prospects

The episode concludes with a forward-looking perspective on Iran’s markets, balanced by the challenges and unprecedented opportunities they present. Reap and Voital emphasize the critical need for a geopolitical shift to unlock Iran’s full economic potential, positioning it as a unique frontier market poised for significant growth under the right conditions.

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Notable Quotes

• Mark Reap [05:35]: "Iran is a big country that should really have a much bigger economy because of sanctions and various reasons."
• Matija Voital [08:47]: "This is true frontier market investing… this is what the fund manager gets paid for."
• Mark Reap [22:36]: "Proper agreement that lists sanctions… opens up the country to everyone, including US Investors."
• Matija Voital [26:33]: "Foreign investors are welcome… programs are designed to make your life easier."

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Final Thoughts

Odd Lots provides an in-depth analysis of Iran's complex market environment, navigating through geopolitical tensions, economic sanctions, and operational challenges. With expert insights from Matija Voital, the episode sheds light on the intricate dynamics that shape Iran's financial markets and explores the potential for substantial growth should geopolitical conditions improve. This episode is a must-listen for investors and enthusiasts seeking to understand the nuances of one of the world's most challenging yet potentially rewarding markets.

Transcript

[Mark Reap]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Charles Schwab]

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[Matija Voital]

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[Mark Reap]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts, Radio News. Yes. Anyway, it's a typical Polish name and it's a difficult one. And there was no English equivalent.

[Matija Voital]

My mother speaks like nine languages, so. And she was a linguist and she said she found Polish to be the hardest.

[Bloomberg Host]

Huh.

[Matija Voital]

And she even, like, speaks like some. Like, she's learned like, some Russian and some Malay and all this Russian's supposed.

[Bloomberg Host]

To be the hardest.

[Matija Voital]

And she said from a pronunciation standpoint, she found Polish to be the hardest. Anyway. Maciej Voita.

[Mark Reap]

Yeah.

[Matija Voital]

I did a dead list.

[Bloomberg Host]

I am both the most popular trader and most successful trader at Citadel.

[Matija Voital]

Feta's going viral.

[Bloomberg Host]

Barges.

[Matija Voital]

This is an after school special.

[Bloomberg Host]

Except I've decided I'm gonna base my entire personality Go. Going forward on campaigning for a strategic pork reserve in the US Black gold. These are the important questions. Is it robots taking over the world?

[Matija Voital]

No. I think that, like, in a couple years, the AI will do a really good job of making the Odd Lots podcast. One day that person will have the mandate of heaven.

[Bloomberg Host]

How do I get more popular and successful?

[Matija Voital]

We do have the perfect guest. Welcome to Lots More where we catch up with friends about what's going on right now.

[Bloomberg Host]

Because even when Odd Lots is over, there's always Lots More.

[Matija Voital]

And we really do have the perfect guest.

[Bloomberg Host]

One thing we have learned in all our episodes, looking at the Iranian stock market, and there have been a couple.

[Matija Voital]

Yes.

[Bloomberg Host]

But one thing we've learned is that Iran is actually the 37th biggest economy in the world by nominal GDP. Can you guess like another economy that is roughly that size?

[Matija Voital]

Oh, that's a really. So what is roughly similar to the Iranian. I don't know. Go on.

[Bloomberg Host]

Okay, well, one of them is Denmark. So, you know, that's pretty big. But then when you start looking at things like geographical size, Iran is, I think the 17th biggest country in the world by geographical size. It has a lot of people as well. So, you know, similar to Turkey in terms of population.

[Mark Reap]

I know.

[Matija Voital]

You know, I know the population now. Oh, well. Yeah. Because Ted Cruz got stumped on it when he went on Tucker Carlson show. So we all know that Iran has a population of around 90 million.

[Bloomberg Host]

No one is listen to odd law.

[Matija Voital]

Yeah, he should have. No one is ever going to make that mistake again in public.

[Bloomberg Host]

That's right. That should have been my first question.

[Matija Voital]

Can I say something when there's geopolitical events happening in the world on a weekend when nothing is trading. So one that you can look at what crypto is doing.

[Bloomberg Host]

Yeah.

[Matija Voital]

But every once in a while when I'm in true market sicko mood, like, I'll actually check, like, oh, what is the Saudi market doing on a Saturday? Or what is the Tel Aviv market doing on a Sunday?

[Bloomberg Host]

There are sicko mode that's just being international.

[Matija Voital]

Well, we're supposed to have the weekends to not be looking up, but most of the time they're not. Every point is, every once in a while I'm like, I'm going to check in and see how Tel Aviv is trading on a Sunday or something like that. That's how you. That's how you know something is happening.

[Bloomberg Host]

Yeah. But the one market that you can't really look up.

[Matija Voital]

That's right.

[Bloomberg Host]

Is Iran's stock market and the Tehran Stock Exchange specifically, which again, as we know from previous episodes has more than 600 companies and is worth, I think it was almost $100 billion. I don't know if it's still that much, but I'm always really.

[Mark Reap]

It's around $150 billion.

[Bloomberg Host]

If I'm saying 150. Oh, wow. Okay. We're speaking with Matija Voital. He is CEO and CIO of Antalon Capital, which is an Amsterdam based fund manager which specializes in Iranian stocks. He's been on the show a couple times before and we thought we would talk to him again just to try to get a sense of what's going on in terms of Iran's economy and its stock market.

[Matija Voital]

What is going on?

[Mark Reap]

If I can just comment on one thing because the way you introduced Iran is the perfect way to show the country. It's the size of Turkey in terms of population and actually geographical size as well. But if you compare the economy of Turkey and Iran, it's around five times smaller. So Iran is around five times smaller. And if you look at the composition of the economy, Turkey has no natural resources. So they have to import the whole energy commodities they consume and so on. Iran has the similar size of potential non commodity GDP that it could grow to. So from the current, let's say 250 billion to 1.1 trillion GDP that Turkey has. But also on top of this has resources that are actually, if you combine gas and oil, they're bigger than Saudi Arabia's and Saudi Arabia is another one point, I think $3 trillion economy. So this is a good way to just frame Iran as to show Iran as, you know, it's a big country that should really be having much bigger economy because of sanctions, various reasons and so on. It's been underdeveloped, but the scale, scale of this underdevelopment is like 10x.

[Matija Voital]

Wow.

[Bloomberg Host]

And because of the sanctions, we can't actually go and look up what's happening in Tehran's stock market. So why don't you give us an overview of what it's been like for the past week given geopolitical events.

[Mark Reap]

So for the past week it was difficult for everyone to check what was going on in Iran because Internet was shut down basically. So I could communicate with my team on the ground in Tehran once a day when they had signal and sometimes it was WhatsApp that was working, sometimes telegram, but it was maybe once or twice per day. So what was going on in the market was simply nothing. So the stock market hasn't opened the exchange of fire between Iran and Israel happened on a Friday, which is weekend in Iran, and then on the following Saturday there was an important religious holiday. So the market, and actually the whole economy was supposed to be closed anyway. The economic activity, the market was supposed to resume on a Sunday, but they didn't open. So the market, the stock market, pretty much most of the currency market has been closed for the last two weeks.

[Matija Voital]

Zooming out for a second, actually, there are two really things that strike me. One, this is true frontier market investing. When you're in a position in which you literally cannot easily communicate with your team on the ground because they're a lack of Internet or lack of communications. But it's striking, strikes me that in some sense this is what the fund manager gets paid for. Because for many reasons, including the fact that it's not trivial to look up data or even access these markets, a lot of investors are never going to be participating in this market. And then you layer in on all these additional complications. This is essentially, at least in theory, the deep risks that in theory you get compensated for.

[Mark Reap]

Yeah, you get compensated for actually giving access to the market because it's very difficult or impossible to get access at this moment as a non resident in Iran, to the local stock market. But also you get paid for solving all the operational problems. You know, we have quite a long track record in Iran. And the main thing actually that we are really proud of because investing when everything is priced for war is fairly easy, right? And also we have a market that is very inefficient because it's driven by retail investors, like 90% of daily flows, they're coming from retail. So there is a lot of alpha, a lot of inefficiencies that you can harvest. But the real issue is our operations. One thing is due diligence. I mean, you know, a lot of sanction restrictions which are not on the whole country but were related to many different entities, sectors and so on. So you have to do due diligence on every single decision you're taking before every decision you're taking. But also you need to solve the problems. For example, the problem of exchanging currency, making transfers. Iranian banks are not connected to the SWIFT system. There are specialized banks that actually do, for example, payments for humanitarian trade with Venezuela or Iran. So food, medical devices, this is never under sanctions and you need to be able to pay for it. But those transfers take like nine months to execute. Right. I remember we once had to process a payment for a very, very official way. We had to have the signature of the actual minister in Iran approving the payment. So it took nine months altogether. But there are other ways, there are other corridors, payment corridors that across emerging markets, including Iran, that make it much more efficient. So, for example, right now, when you have the stock market, the currency market were shut down, but you could track the exchange rate, what's going on with the exchange rate of the Iranian rial versus dollar, either on telegram chats, but also on cryptocurrency exchanges. So you have, you know, liquid market on stable coins versus Iranian real inside of Iran, where. Well, liquidity was limited during the last period anyway. But we could see the changes. So we knew that $1 before the war was at around 830,000 rials per $1. Then it went up roughly 15% to 950,000. And now after the ceasefire, it's back down at 850,000. So you can track the market, you can actually make transactions depending on the liquidity. But it is possible. And to be honest, when I saw those Exchange rates moves 15%. When you have a war where a lot of commentators were saying that this could turn into a massive worldwide conflict, that 15% in a country like Iran, I would say that this is, you know, your usual volatility on the currency market.

[Bloomberg Host]

Hmm. Wait, so when you're talking to your team on the ground, when you can get hold of them, what are the questions you're asking them? Exactly, because the markets are closed, so presumably you're not marking your portfolio to market on a daily basis, but what information are you trying to get?

[Mark Reap]

Well, the first few days, the only information I was interested in was if they were safe, to be honest, because, you know, the, the. What residents of Tehran and some other cities experienced was they've never experienced just explosions in the city. It's like the older Iranians. Compare it to the 80s when Iran was fighting Saddam Hussein in Iraq. And this is when, you know, the last time when someone was firing missiles at Iranian cities. So after a few explosions that were too close to home, they basically evacuated. They moved to smaller cities. And this was a big trend in Iran. So in Tehran, a lot of residents were just relocating out of Tehran. Tehran is a big city. It's like 12 million people. And they were moving mainly north to some smaller cities by the Caspian Sea. So you had massive congestion. People were spending hours in traffic jams trying to get out of Tehran. There was not enough petrol on gas stations just because of this peak in demand. You had some petrol rationing. And then I was asking them, okay, so is the economy working? Not working. So everything that was non essential basically was closed. So you couldn't, I don't know, buy building materials or anything like this. But groceries, pharmaceuticals, well, gas stations, banks, this was all open and working properly with some disruptions. But those disruptions, for example, if you wanted to buy groceries in the in north of Iran where everyone has just relocated, you had some bottlenecks, logistical bottlenecks, so distribution fast enough. So you had some shortages just for a little while with banks. Well some branches were not operating at 100% capacity, but two banks got hacked. So you had some cyber attacks on two banks in Iran and one cryptocurrency exchange. The rest of the banking sector was working without any disruptions. You could get cash from any atm, so there were no problems like this. So these were the questions about everyday life. And then very importantly, have any listed companies reported any damages? Right? Has there been any destruction to civilian infrastructure important for the Iranian economy?

[Charles Schwab]

This episode is brought to you by Charles Schwab. When is the right time to sell a stock? How do you protect against inflation? Are you taking the right risks with your portfolio? Financial decisions can be tricky and often your own cognitive and emotional biases can lead you astray. Financial Decoder, an original podcast from Charles Schwab, can help join host Mark Reap as he offers practical solutions to help overcome the cognitive and emotional biases that may affect your investing decisions. [e-mail] FinancialDecoder A warming planet, complex geopolitics.

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[Matija Voital]

[e-mail] AI Atlanta it's pretty crazy how hard it is, apparently to get data. I'm actually at the Tehran Stock Exchange Wikipedia page, and whoever maintains that page hasn't updated the number of listed companies since 2009, and there's a stock market chart here that goes to 2014. Setting aside the last couple of Weeks. How have Iranian stocks been doing in the last year or couple years?

[Mark Reap]

Yeah, so Iranian stocks, you have to observe it in US Dollars or in any hard currency.

[Matija Voital]

Right.

[Mark Reap]

Because in local currency obviously doesn't tell you anything. If you looked at the stock market in Zimbabwe, when Zimbabwe was going bust, the stock market was performing amazingly in nominal terms, in local currency terms, but obviously in dollars it was going to zero. And it's interesting because, okay, there is information, very up to date detailed information on Iranian stocks available in Iran. But the majority of this information is not accessible if you're trying to access it from a computer with your IP address outside of Iran. So a lot of this information is restricted to Iran IP only, but you cannot find anywhere on the whole Internet. Right. There is no website that shows the stock market index in dollars. So when we send it out to our investors or just people who want to read news about the stock market in Iran, we are the only source of this information. This is quite amazing. I mean, it's a country of 90 million people and stock market with 700 companies and there is no single place in Internet that would show you the only important index.

[Bloomberg Host]

Yeah, that's really stunning. Okay, so when I think of the Iranian stock market, I think of two things. I think oil and then I think geopolitical risk. How does the market typically handle or what do those exposures actually look like and do when there's a big event such as what we saw in the past week.

[Mark Reap]

So in terms of oil, oil is not really publicly traded. There is one Iranian monopoly called National Iranian Oil Corporation or company that is responsible for production. Yeah, I think this is all centralized in one company and this is held by the government, so it's not publicly listed. You have some exposure to oil through oil refineries that are listed. But refineries don't trade. They're not sensitive to the price of oil. They are sensitive to the crack spread. Right. Which defines their margin on refining margin. So they are not really perfect proxy to oil prices. The whole stock market actually is well diversified. So you have, you know, large sectors such as chemicals mainly. These are like petrochemicals, I don't know companies that, that produce different products, different versions, use natural gas, that is in large supply as a cheap commodity and produce fertilizers or products like this. Right. So this is probably 20% of the stock market. Then you have steel companies. The largest steel company in the Middle east is in Iran. You have carmakers that produce around 1 million cars, more than 1 million cars a year. So with car manufacturers, you have all the related industries, suppliers to the car manufacturing businesses, you have banks. Financials is an important sector, plus some consumer exposure, some building materials. Cement companies are one of the best performers over the last few years. Actually it's a well diversified stock market like Iranian economy.

[Matija Voital]

Wait, sorry, just to follow up on the question before, in USD terms generally, how has the Tehran stock market been performing, setting aside the fact that.

[Mark Reap]

Sorry, I didn't answer your question. Yes. So over the last, I don't know, eight years I think. So let's say since the US and Iran signed the nuclear deal back in 2016, so almost a decade ago, it should be roughly double that level right now. So it doubled since then, but in the meantime there's been quite a lot of roller coasters. So Iranian stocks in dollar terms are three times lower right now, around three times lower compared to the level back in 2020. So if you compare to August 2020, when there was a peak of a local, let's say bull market and a bubble, right now stocks are around three times lower than that in dollar terms.

[Matija Voital]

Got it.

[Mark Reap]

And that's the main reason two years has been the sentiment, because 2023 started really well for the region. There was this historical breakthrough agreement between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Both countries decided that they don't want conflict. It was basically like a peace treaty. They opened up embassies in both countries and that was huge because the Saudi finance minister was talking about investment opportunities in Iran. Iranian exporters were hoping for new export markets to open up in the region from Egypt to Saudi Arabia to whatever other countries around. So that was like a very positive moment. At the same time, Biden administration was negotiating with the former Iranian government. So everything looked really, really promising. Instead, obviously what happened in October was Hamas was Gaza and that changed everything. Like sentiment collapsed and no one really wanted to look at any risky assets in Iran. So you had a situation where profits were going up. When you're looking at Iranian listed companies, profits continued to grow, but the stock market was going down. So obviously valuations are just cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. But everyone was focused basically on the potential for the regional escalation, rightfully so, and not on taking risk in their portfolios.

[Matija Voital]

So just big picture from your perspective because you think, thinking back to your first answer, where you talked about, okay, here's in theory, what some comps could be and it could look like Turkey or it has resources potentially on scale with Saudi Arabia, how much of the bet, so to speak, from your perspective, is what people Would say, like the option value from something happening. Either it's a major softening between Iran and the west, perhaps regime change, something that triggers the big unlock. Like how much in your mind is it about? At some point something will reset and some. And that massive opportunity could actually be tapped.

[Mark Reap]

So you're asking about the potential of this opportunity?

[Matija Voital]

Yeah, like basically. Like is that in. Like basically, okay, it's going to move around. There's sentiment here and there, but that at some point down the future, that actual opportunity to be an economy and be a market on the scale of a Turkey could one day actually be realized through some, some switch that gets flipped.

[Mark Reap]

Look, this is probably, I mean, from my perspective, the biggest optionality in enlisted markets, in public markets that you can find, because one thing is gdp and gdp. The way I look at GDP currently, I mean if you Google it, It says around $400 billion. We think it's more like $250 billion. It depends on the exchange rate that you use to calculate it. So let's say Iran is $250 billion. GDP and now Iranian non oil economy, non commodity economy, if everything goes well, could be as big as Turkey. And Turkey is 1.1 trillion. And this is without any commodity because Turkey.

[Matija Voital]

But do it need to be an event? Like something would need to happen? Right.

[Mark Reap]

Absolutely. The catalyst is clear. Right. Okay. I'll get back to the potential for GDP in a moment. But the catalyst is absolutely clear. It must be the opening up of Iran as a country and opening up of the economy. And sanctions lifted, the US Sanctions lifted. Right. So there must be an agreement between the US and Iran. And what needs to happen? Well, some sort of political change. So political attitude must change on both sides. But to be honest, many analysts were expecting some big dramatic event that needs to happen in Iran for the country to properly open up. And when you look at Iran right now and you compare to, let's say even a few years ago, when you had negotiations with the U.S. what were the biggest problem? It was always about two things. Iran enriching uranium too much basically at the wrong level. And the second, Iranian regional policies, so financing proxies from Hezbollah to Hamas, Assad in Syria and so on. So these two things were always the problem that they couldn't negotiate over. When you look at it right now, well, to a large extent both obstacles are gone. So potentially this opens up a path to an agreement, an agreement like a proper agreement. So not the type of nuclear agreement that was signed under Obama administration, which was never strong enough. And I think both Americans and Iranians understand this. I mean, proper agreement that lists sanctions, US Sanctions too, and opens up the country to everyone, including US Investors, if they want to tap into the opportunity. And I think it seems that this is the thinking in the US that if we do it, we do it properly. And I think, not that. I think what we've been hearing from on the Iranian side, like a few weeks ago when they were still negotiating, it was the same thing that they were showing Iran the whole economy as a big opportunity, like a trillion dollar opportunity or $2 trillion opportunity. I mean, it's a massive opportunity for all the investors. So this is the trigger, this is the catalyst that will unlock this optionality, this potential of Iran growing GDP from the current 250 billion to in some perfect scenario to $2.3 trillion, which would be a combination of Saudi and Turkish GDP, obviously, if everything went well.

[Bloomberg Host]

Well, but the other thing that's been happening over the past week is we've had reports of an internal crackdown in Iran and people getting arrested and things like that. And when I think internal crackdown, I think hardening of capital controls, which Iran already has. What are you hearing on that side of things? Because presumably that would make your life, your job even harder.

[Mark Reap]

Look, capital controls have been in place for Iranian entities for some time. When it comes to foreign investors, it's obviously difficult to access. But everyone who is there, and you have some really, really large, one of the largest Swiss companies, German companies, Japanese, French companies still there, not increasing their scale of their operations, but just sustaining what they've had for the last 20 years there. And they are welcome. Same with investors. I mean, Iran desperately needs capital in the form of FDI, ideally, but portfolio investments as well, to channel funding through the stock market to local private companies. So this is badly needed. And Iran is aware of that and understands this, offers government guarantees. We have the same guarantees as all the big European companies that are present there against expropriation of assets and so on and so forth. So. So it's not that you're not welcome as a foreign investor. Quite the contrary. I would say there are programs that are designed to make your life easier. You could even actually, if you invest, I don't remember, it was around €200,000 or dollar equivalent. You get a residency in Iran if you were interested in this for five years, I think so. There are many programs designed specifically for foreign investors to make the local market more attractive. In terms of capital controls for local residents have been always in place. So limits on how much of foreign currency they are able to buy and for what purposes. So if you want to send your child to school in the US or somewhere and you have to pay for education, this has different quotas. If you want to travel, this is different, but it's very formalized and bureaucratic.

[Matija Voital]

Other tech companies that trade on the Tehran stock market There are tech companies.

[Mark Reap]

The ones that are listed are related to enterprise software for example.

[Matija Voital]

That's what I figured.

[Mark Reap]

Oracle or SAP. German SAP. But you have privately held companies that would like to ipo, but they are just waiting for the approval from the regulator. And these are quite amazing companies. You have Snap, which is like an Uber, but Snap has more rights in Tehran than Uber in any city in the world. It's a really world class company. You have Digicala, which is like Amazon basically also a large company, one of the biggest success stories and many, many, many smaller e commerce companies that are.

[Matija Voital]

In the private market, well look out for them.

[Bloomberg Host]

Lots More is produced by Carmen Rodriguez and Dashiell Bennett with help from Moses Ondahm and Cale Brooks.

[Matija Voital]

Our sound engineers, Blake Maples. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts.

[Bloomberg Host]

Please rate, review and subscribe to odd lots and lots more on your favorite podcast platforms.

[Matija Voital]

And remember that Bloomberg subscribers can listen to all of our podcasts ad free by connecting through Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.

[Bloomberg Event Host]

A warming planet, Complex geopolitics and fierce competition means business operations are under more scrutiny than ever before. Returning to Singapore this July, the Bloomberg Sustainable Business Summit is uniting leaders and investors to explore how sustainability efforts can bolster resilience and mitigate risk. Learn [e-mail] SBS Singapore. That's bloomberglive.com SBS Singapore this is an iHeart podcast.