This Is Why People Are So in Love With Gold

Summary

Odd Lots Podcast Summary: "This Is Why People Are So in Love With Gold"

Release Date: February 14, 2025
Hosts: Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway
Guest: Maqsood Agajani, Founder of Tracks NYC

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1. Introduction: Shifting Perspectives on Gold

In this episode of Odd Lots, hosts Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway delve into the enduring allure of gold. Initially skeptical about gold investments, Joe acknowledges a shift in sentiment as gold has demonstrated remarkable stability and growth over recent years. The conversation sets the stage for a deeper exploration into why gold remains a beloved asset despite changing economic landscapes.

Joe Weisenthal [03:06]: "Gold has done really well over the long term over the last several years. It's been one of the best performing assets. It's stable."

2. Gold's Performance and Relationship with Other Assets

Tracy highlights gold's unprecedented rise, noting it hit $2,600 an ounce during their recording. They discuss how gold has defied traditional economic indicators, such as rising Federal Reserve rates, which typically inversely affect gold prices.

Tracy Alloway [03:40]: "It started going up even as the Federal Reserve was raising rates, which is something that you don't normally see."

Joe expresses a desire to move beyond the usual macroeconomic narratives surrounding gold, aiming instead to uncover more tangible reasons behind its sustained popularity.

3. Interview with Maqsood (Max) Agajani: Insights from Tracks NYC

A. Gold as a Status Symbol and Safe Asset

Max Agajani shares his perspective on gold, emphasizing its historical association with wealth and power. Drawing parallels to ancient civilizations, he explains that gold has long been a symbol of prosperity and a tangible store of value.

Max Agajani [06:48]: "Gold is for people who have money to burn... it turns it into a status symbol."

B. Impact of Lab-Grown Diamonds on the Jewelry Market

The conversation shifts to the diamond industry, where Max discusses the disruptive influence of lab-grown diamonds. These artificially created gems have significantly impacted the market by offering lower-priced alternatives, thereby reducing demand for naturally mined diamonds.

Tracy Alloway [21:47]: "Why buy a cheap diamond or a low-grade diamond when you could get a high-grown lab?"

Max explains that while lab-grown diamonds have carved out a substantial market share, natural diamonds still hold unique value for consumers seeking authenticity and tradition.

C. Competition Between Gold and Cryptocurrencies

Max addresses the burgeoning competition between gold and cryptocurrencies. While recognizing the allure of digital assets, he remains steadfast in his preference for gold, citing its physical tangibility and historical reliability.

Max Agajani [09:59]: "The game is crypto. So it's, you know, that's what they're thinking about, and that's what it is."

Joe acknowledges the debate, noting that both assets cater to similar investment theses centered around value preservation and inflation hedging.

D. Challenges in the Jewelry Business: Hiring and Security

Operating a jewelry store, especially in a high-stakes environment like New York's Diamond District, presents unique challenges. Max discusses the difficulties in hiring trustworthy employees and maintaining stringent security measures to protect valuable inventory.

Max Agajani [30:05]: "A lot of them are usually going to be immigrants... People have become abusive. And, you know, it's not just the drugs, it's the theft and the overall lack of work ethic in today's society."

He emphasizes the importance of meticulous hiring practices and robust security protocols to mitigate risks associated with high-value goods.

E. Customer Behavior and Market Trends

Max provides insights into customer motivations behind purchasing gold and jewelry. He observes that while some customers seek gold as a secure investment, others are motivated by its aesthetic and status-enhancing qualities. Additionally, he anticipates potential shifts in engagement ring trends, such as a move toward colored gemstones influenced by celebrity endorsements.

Max Agajani [23:47]: "Maybe one day after the economy really takes a nosedive, ... But still, it's diamonds."

4. Hosts’ Reflections and Conclusions

Joe and Tracy reflect on the multifaceted nature of gold as both a financial instrument and a cultural symbol. They acknowledge gold's resilience in the face of economic uncertainties and its ability to adapt to contemporary consumer trends. The discussion underscores gold's unique position in the investment landscape, balancing traditional value with modern relevance.

Tracy Alloway [49:35]: "He used to do these really fun... have a million in watches and a million in gold... you can't go wrong with some of those assets."

Joe reiterates the practicality of gold as a steadfast store of value, contrasting it with the volatility often associated with cryptocurrencies.

Joe Weisenthal [49:57]: "Gold's done really great... $100 worth of gold is always $100."

Key Takeaways

• Gold's Stability: Despite economic fluctuations and rising interest rates, gold continues to perform robustly, reinforcing its status as a reliable investment.

• Lab-Grown Diamonds: The advent of lab-grown diamonds has disrupted the traditional diamond market, offering consumers more affordable options and influencing overall diamond pricing.

• Crypto vs. Gold: While cryptocurrencies attract speculative investors, gold's physical presence and historical significance maintain its appeal as a secure investment.

• Operational Challenges: Jewelry businesses face significant hurdles in hiring trustworthy staff and ensuring the security of their high-value inventory.

• Consumer Motivations: Purchases of gold and jewelry are driven by a combination of investment purposes and the desire for status symbols, with evolving trends influenced by societal changes and celebrity endorsements.

Notable Quotes

• Joe Weisenthal [04:08]: "Gold keeps hitting record after record as we're recording this."

• Tracy Alloway [12:51]: "It's such a frivolous thing, right? It's like a gold chain."

• Max Agajani [19:24]: "Jewelry is the only industry in which you raise your prices and sales could go up because people associate that with higher quality."

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Transcript

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[Mikaela Shiffrin]

I'm Alpine skier Mikaela Shifrin. I've won the most World cup ski races in history. But what does success mean? To me? Success means discipline. It's teamwork. It's the drive and passion inside of us that comes before all recognition. And it's why Stifel is one of the fastest growing global wealth management firms in the country. If you're looking for success, surround yourself with the people who will get you there.

[Stifel Representative]

At Stifel, we invest everything into our advisors so they can invest everything into their clients. That means direct access to one of the industry's largest equity research franchises and a leading middle market investment bank. And it's why Stifel has won the J.D. power Award for Employee Advisor satisfaction two years in a row.

[Mikaela Shiffrin]

If you're an advisor or investor, choose.

[Stifel Representative]

Stifel, Where Success Meets Success. Stifel Nicholas & Co. Inc. Member SIPC and NYSE for J.D. power 2024 award information, visit jdpower.com Awards compensation provided for using not obtain hey.

[Tracy Alloway]

There Odd Lots listeners. It's Tracy Alloway and Joe Weisenthal. We are very excited to announce that Odd Lots is going to Washington.

[Joe Weisenthal]

That's right. For the first time we are going to do a live public Odd Lots recording in our nation's capital. That's going to be March 12th in Washington D.C. at the Miracle Theater and guests will be announced in the coming days. But in the meantime you can find a Ticket [e-mail] Odd Lots Bloomberg Audio.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Studios Podcasts Radio News.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Hello and welcome to another Episode of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal.

[Tracy Alloway]

And I'm Tracy Alloway.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Tracy Gold has had a really good year.

[Tracy Alloway]

Here's a question. Here's a question. One of the last times we talked about gold, you made fun of me for being a gold bug. Are you going to start this episode out by doing the same thing?

[Joe Weisenthal]

No. You're completely vindicated. Gold has done really well over the long term over the last several years. It's been one of the best performing assets. It's stable. I take back everything I ever implied negatively about gold.

[Tracy Alloway]

You're going to be nice to the gold bugs now?

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah.

[Tracy Alloway]

All right.

[Joe Weisenthal]

I'm not capitulating, but it's so. Look at the. Sure. It's great.

[Tracy Alloway]

I will say I'm sort of an accidental gold bug. It has not been a conscious choice to accumulate, but it has turned out really well. So gold keeps hitting record after record. As we're recording this, I think it's at 2,600 an ounce.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah. 2649. It had gotten as high as 2,800 almost in October. But it's been. I mean, it's. The last couple of years have been phenomenal.

[Tracy Alloway]

That's crazy. And the other really interesting thing is like, it started going up even as the Federal Reserve was raising rates, which is something that you don't normally see. Like normally gold has that inverse relationship to rates, that negative correlation.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah.

[Tracy Alloway]

And I guess the demand has just been so strong that it doesn't really matter this time around.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Can I say something? So you bring up the sort of fed connection, etc. And so I want to learn more about gold, but. But I don't really have much interest in just talking to like another gold macro guy because I don't know what they say. They always tell the same story. It's like inflation and currency debasement and all that. Maybe that's all true, but I sort of like, I want to talk gold, but I just like, I sort of felt going into this conversation that we can't just talk to someone who's just, you know, going to tell the same story they could have told about gold every single day for the last 20 years.

[Tracy Alloway]

I think it's a very valid feeling to have. There is something like physical about gold. Obviously it's shiny, it's fun to hold, even like silver. You can have fun stacking those coins, as I know personally. So it makes sense to talk to someone who's in the physical market.

[Joe Weisenthal]

We're going to talk about what's going on in the gold market but actually get into why people love gold so much and why people want to be.

[Tracy Alloway]

Covered and why right now?

[Joe Weisenthal]

Why right now, why people want to accumulate gold, have it in their saves, have it on their person, etc. We really do have the perfect guest. We are going to be speaking with Maqstude Agajani. Max Agajani. He is the founder of Tracks nyc, New York City based jewelry dealer and listeners might know we actually had him on the podcast once in early 2020 and listeners might know him if they ever saw the movie Uncut Gems. One of my favorite movies of the last few years because he actually was in the movie. He played, I guess, kind of himself to some extent in the movie. I think the character's name was Yossi. In the Diamond District in the Gold District in Manhattan. We were going to talk all things gold with Max Maqsood, AKA Yossi. Thank you so much for coming back on Odd Lots.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Thank you for having me for a second time.

[Joe Weisenthal]

What's your life been like the last four years? How did that all change your life?

[Maqsood Agajani]

The odd lots? How did that change?

[Joe Weisenthal]

How did Coming out.

[Maqsood Agajani]

It's only been up from there in.

[Joe Weisenthal]

That little movie that you appeared in.

[Maqsood Agajani]

At the end of the movie did good. Odd Lots did good. Other pod did good. And all the social media also did really good for me.

[Tracy Alloway]

Here's an important question. Did you bring me the diamond encrusted Furby? That's all I want out of life.

[Maqsood Agajani]

In, in all reality, it wasn't even diamonds in that thing. It was made out of brass. I know movie magic.

[Tracy Alloway]

Honestly, I would take the brass version.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Too, but it might not be good for your skin, but.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Oh really? What does brass do to your skin?

[Tracy Alloway]

It turns it green.

[Maqsood Agajani]

She got it. She knows it.

[Tracy Alloway]

Yeah, all, all women know this. The big difference between gold and brass.

[Joe Weisenthal]

So other than the fact that gold doesn't turn your skin green, what, what is it that people love about gold? Why do people, why do people buy gold from you?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, gold is for people who have money to burn, right? You know, if you're, you could go back thousands of years. If you're an Egyptian pharaoh and you're not starving, you have plenty of labor and grain and land and property. What don't you have? Well, I guess I want to make a gold casket, a gold esophagus, so to speak. And maybe some peasant might find some in the field and I'll give him the grain he needs and he'll give me the gold so it accumulates with people who are not struggling, and that turns it into a status symbol.

[Tracy Alloway]

You know, Joe, I remember you actually wrote a really good piece about the history of gold and how it was sort of intermingled with power and this idea that, you know, like, you needed a big military basically to go out and get gold, and you needed a lot of labor to dig it up. And so it became very much associated with power.

[Joe Weisenthal]

It's like a proof of work, right. If you can, like in the. Even in the bitcoin sense. Also, you know, one thing Tracy, you know, Max mentioned, the pharaohs. Gold doesn't tarnish, right. And so it's like, historically, going back thousands of years, it was associated with the gods, is like one commodity that is truly immortal in a way that most things that we find on earth aren't.

[Tracy Alloway]

Okay, I have a really dumb question, though. When gold is hitting records like it is right now, do you see more or less demand for jewelry?

[Maqsood Agajani]

I mean, it's kind of stable, to be honest. You know, when I started my business in 2004, gold was about $300 an ounce. Now it's 2,500, 20, 600 fluctuating over there. I've watched it the whole way. It's increase in price does have a little bit of effect on the demand, but not that much. But, you know, at some point, people can't afford what they want. Back in 2004, you could stack yourself with gold. 14 karat at $12 a gram or whatever it was. It was a great time to really stack gold. But now your dollar doesn't go so far, and you can't really have as much as you'd like.

[Joe Weisenthal]

But on the other hand, in 2004, if you bought $100 worth of gold, you had $100 worth of gold.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Right.

[Joe Weisenthal]

In 2025, if you buy $100 worth of gold, you still have $100 worth of gold. So in for real, like, if you want to, like, convert your dollars into something else, it does the Same job at 26.49 as it does at 300.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, well, listen, until the guy that bought it at 2004 walks through the door, and his hundred dollars worth of gold looks like a bigger pile than your $100 worth of gold. But whatever, you know, money's a game. Gold is one way to play it. It's a safe way to play it. I love it because I have a jewelry store full of gold chains and gold jewelry, and as the price goes up, what I can't sell I melt, and I still make my money back, and that's a fantastic aspect of it, and it never let me down, and I don't think it ever let anybody in history down. So you can't really go wrong with it. You might not be the biggest winner like you are with the cryptos or whatever it is. Somebody who bought, you know, a pizza pie for 15 or 20 bitcoin back in 2011 and now could have been a billionaire or whatever. Yeah, it might not do that, but it'll keep you safe and sound and happy.

[Tracy Alloway]

Do you feel competition with the crypto market?

[Maqsood Agajani]

I mean, I don't want gold to go up. You know, that doesn't do anything for me. I know it will eventually, but, yeah, crypto had a major impact. Who knows if crypto would never. If Satoshi Nakamoto never bothered to do whatever he was doing or whatever that was? What would gold be right now if it wasn't trillions of dollars literally inside of crazy cryptos?

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah. Could be up more. What. What are people into these days?

[Maqsood Agajani]

What are people into these days?

[Joe Weisenthal]

Like, when they come into your store, what do they like? How much is it? Like the crazy diamond encrusted Furbies that Tracy didn't get today.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Right.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Versus just wanting a nice, tasteful chain. Versus what's. What's.

[Maqsood Agajani]

I mean, listen, everybody. Everybody has their own little need. You know, they want. They want to give a gift for a girl, so they might want to be able to buy a tennis bracelet. Okay. They have a girlfriend or they have a side chick or they have a baby mama. I don't know what their situation is, but you got to buy or something, all right? So you got to go and you got to buy. It could be a tennis bracelet that will be with diamonds.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Will they tell you if it's for the side chick? Will they say that, like, by the way, this is for the side chick.

[Maqsood Agajani]

I could usually tell what's going on.

[Tracy Alloway]

Is the bracelet for the side chick smaller?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Listen, the one for the wife, you know, that's. Varies from customer to customer, put it that way.

[Tracy Alloway]

Okay, Can I ask the basic question, though?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Why.

[Tracy Alloway]

Why do you think gold prices have been going up?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, listen, I mean, you know, we got to do the math, all right? It's one thing I learned since the last time I was here to today, a lot of people, maybe they might be in a beautiful building like we are now, or in a professional field, but they're not doing the mathematics here at all. All right? $36 trillion. And that $1 trillion in interest. You got China buying it up like crazy. So I hear central banks this, that if you look into numbers, you're gonna find out what's really going on. And it's like the wizard of Oz out there. You really don't want to look behind the curtain here, because I don't know what you're gonna find there and how this is all gonna come to a head as things get turbulent. You know, when in the new administration or what have you, whatever you want to call it, and cryptos and quantum computing and robots and this and that. I don't really know how it's all going to play out, but I know that if anything happens, I have my safe, my combination to my safe, my security system, and my physical assets that I can rely on. So that's what it is for me. I don't know.

[Tracy Alloway]

I feel like there is a tension there, though, because, like, if I imagine myself coming into a jewelry store and I'm like, okay, I'm going to buy a gold chain because, you know, it's a safe store of value and things are uncertain right now. Like, that's okay. But on the other hand, I'm buying, like, something that's pretty frivolous, right? It's like a. It's a gold chain. What am I really going to do with it?

[Maqsood Agajani]

As it should be frivolous. I mean, you're not supposed to be on the edge of starvation, you know, struggling against all odds. Oh, I need shoes and a winter coat and coal for my furnace.

[Tracy Alloway]

You know, prioritize the gold.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, we're supposed to be productive, successful people in a modern world with surplus.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Right?

[Tracy Alloway]

Wait, but when people come into your store, do they talk to you about why they're buying gold? Do they say stuff like, I'm worried about inflation?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, some people do. I mean, there's somebody that came in. I'll never forget him. He was listening to what I was saying, and he came in. This is when gold was 1850, and he was painting houses, and he bought, like, 10 ounces. So he saved up the money, $18,500 or whatever it was, and he saved up the money and he said, you know what? I'm tired of losing my money. I'm tired of spending. He bought 10 ounces of gold because of what I said. And, you know, wherever he is now, if he held on to that gold now, it's, you know, 26,500 or whatever. So he did great. And he just bought 10. 10 ounces of, you know, 1 ounce each bouillon bars, but I feel like he even got shortchanged. I think the gold price after that ridiculous pandemic with all that printing should be way higher than than even 2650, but I'm not looking for that to happen anytime soon.

[Tastytrade]

Old trading walks into a bar. New trading raises it. Unlike some guys, Tastytrade puts traders first. Maybe you're the type to hunker down on your desktop for hours. Maybe you breeze by on your browser. Or maybe you just need that top rated app right by your side. However you do it, tastytrade's got the advanced tools you need to tackle stocks, options, futures and more all in one place. Chart your heart out with over 300 indicators. See opportunity differently with interactive curve analysis. Use backtesting to learn from the past and plan for the future. The platform is only the beginning of better trading. You'll also find low pricing, lots of education and backup from a support team that really gets how traders trade. It's no wonder Investopedia named Tastytrade the best broker for options in 2024. Genius loves company, so get [e-mail] RideWithUs tastytrade Inc. Is a registered broker, dealer and member of finra, NFA and sipc.

[Mikaela Shiffrin]

I'm alpine skier Mikaela Shiffrin. I've won the most World cup ski races in history. But what does success mean? To me, success means discipline. It's teamwork. It's the drive and passion inside of us that comes before all recognition. And it's why Stifel is one of the fastest growing global wealth management firms in the country. If you're looking for success, surround yourself with the people who will get you there.

[Stifel Representative]

At Stifel, we invest everything into our advisors so they can invest everything into their clients. That means direct access to one of the industry's largest equity research franchises and a leading middle market investment bank. And it's why Stifel has won the J.D. power Award for Employee Advisor satisfaction two years in a row.

[Mikaela Shiffrin]

If you're an advisor or investor, choose Stifel.

[Stifel Representative]

Where success meets success stifel, Nicholas & Co. Incorporated member SIPC and NYSE for J.D. power 2024 award information, visit J.D. power.com Awards compensation provided for using not.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Obtaining the award One thing that I always liked on your Instagram page and I'm not sure if you've done one recently, you used to do like these really fun like sort of like let's take a look at geopolitics and like the charts and the Maps. Have you still been doing that?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, I. That's not like the.

[Joe Weisenthal]

I found that to be very entertaining.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, you guys, you guys are, you know, a little smart and stuff like that, but for the average person in the crowd, sometimes I have to do something a little bit more.

[Joe Weisenthal]

I remember, like years ago, I don't know what year it was. You had like the chart of Iran and the chart, you know, different, like tensions in the Middle East.

[Maqsood Agajani]

I do that on Tracks News.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Oh, that's the Tracks News page.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, yeah. I have a little side channel where I talk about what's really going on in the world. But when it comes to my main pages, I want to. I have to make money.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Okay. So I have to go and I have to stick around the materials, the diamonds, the sapphires, the gold. And I have to market my jewelry to the masses in a clever way. Make my money, buy more gold chains. I'm placing an order for half a million for seven kilos. Okay. Of gold chains. I'm going to flood out my shop and I'm going to hunker down and I'm going to wait for it all to end.

[Tracy Alloway]

What are your security costs now?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, listen, I mean, I'm in the middle of the diamond district. You know, my rent is about $50,000 a month, and. But I have some. Three spaces up, you know, in, in 14A, which is on the 13th floor. And then I have a mezzanine and then I have a storefront. And luckily there's, you know, police cars there and two precincts nearby. I'm next to Fox News and Rockefeller Center. So I'm in a safe place. If there's ever was a place to stash gold, this is the place to do it. So I'm going to take advantage of that fact.

[Joe Weisenthal]

What, what would you leave for the day? Like, how big is that protocol of like, locking up everything?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Right. Well, my staff does it, okay? I have cameras. I see what's going on, and I have. It's like a casino or a bank. If you make a proper protocol, you don't have to sit here and worry about it so much.

[Joe Weisenthal]

When you talk about buying half a million, seven kilos worth of gold, making a half a million dollar order. What's that? What's that? Like, who are the big players in the sort of wholesale gold district.

[Maqsood Agajani]

And for anybody doing the Math, that's in 14 karat gold, so they get 7 kilos, they're gonna be thinking this guy's some's not on the up and up. That's coming from different chain manufacturers in Italy, sometimes could be Indonesia or somewhere else. And they have factories and they source their gold, however, which way they do it. You know, I've been to some of these factories. They're beautiful factories, family run. But I like to buy my gold in gold chains. Now, if I buy gold bars or grain, and I do that often as well, I do that right on the street on 47th street with several different vendors there that are really, really cool people. Worth the visiting and learning about.

[Tracy Alloway]

What do higher gold prices actually do for your profit margins? Because I imagine, like, the actual manufacturing cost is probably the biggest chunk.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, they know that's not. The manufacturing cost is not the biggest chunk. I mean, the gold, the material is the biggest that by far. And it eats away. And then you have to raise your prices. But jewelry is the only industry in which you raise your prices and sales could go up because people associate that with a higher quality. Right. You know, they'll, they'll look, if people don't know anything about it, they'll say, hey, this sapphire is 30,000. This one's 20,000. So that sapphire must be better than this one, you know, and that's how people think about jewelry, and that's the psychology behind it. And, you know, that works in our favor if we're building a jewelry brand or whatever.

[Joe Weisenthal]

So, by the way, we're recording this on January 7th, just today, Mark Zuckerberg, the Meta CEO, the Facebook guy, released a video about content moderation, and a number of people noticed he was wearing a $900,000 watch. His style has changed.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yep.

[Joe Weisenthal]

What do you. Is there been. Have you noticed a shift in general, sort of public styles of people these days maybe versus say 10 years ago of wanting to wear their wealth on their wrist, around their neck more?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, yeah. The people are growing up. Things are definitely changing, and people are flashing a little bit more. I mean, you know, there was an era of Steve Jobs where he was a real leader and he was, you know, the same pair of jeans and sneakers, New Balance sneakers, very plain. And, you know, once he passed, other people are stepping out. And the watch game is, I guess, something that caught Mark's eye. And he's in it now and he's playing along, which is great for business. And, you know, that's really what's. What's been going on. And I think that's a great trend. A lot of people wearing different timepieces. There's way more information about them now. The, the, the market has kind of been democratized a little bit where people could look up different watches and find their certain styling. And this guy is stepping out, he's stepping up and he's changing his personality. Maybe he did ayahuasca. I don't really know what got into him, but it's good for business, so I'm happy about it.

[Tracy Alloway]

He definitely had a little makeover recently. You can tell we've been talking a lot about gold, but we should talk about diamonds as well because, like, gold's been going up, diamond prices have been going down for a while. And I imagine some of it is, you know, pressure from lab grown diamonds. But like, what's going on there?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, the lab grown is in the market and it's weighing it down heavily because you can't tell the difference. And even I buy them sometimes and, you know, the real challenge is used to be able to sell, you know, SI2I 1J color.

[Joe Weisenthal]

What are these words?

[Maqsood Agajani]

These are all the gradings of the stone.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Okay, all right, keep going.

[Tracy Alloway]

So didn't you buy an engagement ring?

[Maqsood Agajani]

I forgot.

[Joe Weisenthal]

You should know, it was a, it was a family heirloom. So I never had to go to the lucky. No money in those days.

[Maqsood Agajani]

So the lower, you know, lower grade stones, they used to play a part, but now why would I buy a lower grade stone? Right. It's. Here's a, a decent example. Why would I buy a Honda Accord built from a factory when I could buy a lab grown Mercedes?

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah, I get that.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Okay.

[Joe Weisenthal]

You know, so it's really, it kills the low end.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Because if you're gonna go the low end anyway, you don't really care.

[Maqsood Agajani]

But once you take out the low end, the high end is coming with it and all sorts of things are going down. But natural is still natural. Natural gems are a different story.

[Joe Weisenthal]

So the natural gems are for the wife?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, they're for their wives and they're for a way for you to spend money.

[Tracy Alloway]

But wait, my engagement ring is actually an aquamarine. It's not a diamond. But this reminds me, like, do you see other types of stones coming into fashion? Like the more natural gemstones, if maybe like the lab grown diamonds are kind of muddying that market?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Not yet. Nobody really knows what to do. Okay, so engagement, marriage, these are, you know, the highest societal matters that one can discuss. And society doesn't know how to decide that. There has to be some leadership. Someone has to get engaged with a sapphire to start a trend, some major celebrity or, you know, God forbid, Melania gets a divorce and gets a new husband. He buys her a ruby. I think we'll see it.

[Tracy Alloway]

Well, Kate Middleton had a sapphire.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Oh, she did?

[Tracy Alloway]

Yeah. That was a big deal.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, that's a big deal. And that's the way they do it over there. Because that was kind of Princess Diana had, I think, a sapphire. So I think that was the trend. But it never really caught on into the masses just yet. It's still diamonds.

[Tracy Alloway]

Wait, why do things like fall in and out of fashion like that? Like, why. Why do diamonds have such a hold on the engagement market still?

[Maqsood Agajani]

That's a fantastic question. I mean, this was, you know, propagandized by De Beers at some point of time, somebody's brainchild to be able to show commitment. And it also, the shoe fit. So they wore it. You know, she got a one character, she's got a one and a half. Or my husband bought me a three character. But yours a J color. And it's just, is just a game for people to play and for a way to have the guy spend money.

[Tracy Alloway]

One more diamond question, but like, how come diamonds. My impression is notoriously, if you get a giant diamond engagement ring, like, yes, okay, that's great. But if you break up or you divorce and you want to go sell it, it immediately loses a ton of value. Why is it that diamonds never really, like, transformed into a store of value in the same way that gold did?

[Maqsood Agajani]

It's a luxury product. Okay, listen, another example that I give most of my clients, right, you could buy, you could go to the liquor store, you have a $60, you could buy a bottle of champagne, or you could buy a bottle of Jamaican rum, okay? So one is going to get you way more drunk for way longer than the other. You know, champagne, half the bottle is going to fly out when you open it. Half the contents of the bottle. But Jamaican run rum, you could sit under a bridge for a month and, you know, whatever. So the fact of the matter is, is one is a luxury product for celebration and one is not okay, if you really want, you know, if you're somewhere in, in the Middle east or in Asia and you're getting married, you're going to cover your wife in gold so she could feel secure about her, you know, marriage or divorce or commitment or whatever. But here in the west, you know, at the, the top 1% of society or civilization or whatever it might be, it's a different trend. And you're buying something that is frivolous and luxurious. If you really want something that's going to keep your value, give your wife a gold bar or, you know, you're not going to see in some, you know, on Park Avenue at some major wedding hall or whatever, a wife covered in gold coins. Okay, all right. You know, like you would.

[Tracy Alloway]

Maybe one day.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Maybe one day. Yeah. After you. After the economy really takes a nosedive, then. Yeah, maybe. So that's the reason.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Let's talk about watches a little more. You sell watches? I'm looking at a 92,000 fully iced out sky dweller Oyster Perpetual Rolex watch on your website. What's a cool watch brand these days? I mean, Rolexes are always in. What are people into now? What's the hot thing in watches?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, the big boys obviously protect Philippe Audemars and Rolex. And then if you really want to stand out, you might get a Breguet or, you know, Cartiers or Cartier, as they like to pronounce it, is something that's also cute. But aside from that. Listen, you're getting a watch not to tell the time. Let's just keep it real. Okay. You're getting a watch to have a status symbol. So they call Rolexes the new money. When you get your first real money, you get yourself a Rolex because you know it's gonna do the job.

[Joe Weisenthal]

You've arrived.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yes. And then from there you go out further and further into something that might be a little bit, you know, unknown. But amongst the community of people in the watches, it's respected. And there's definitely several different brands like that, and none of them come to mind at the moment. But, you know, I usually rely on my friend Roman Scharf when it comes to watches. He's an expert in that field.

[Tracy Alloway]

I used to know a big luxury watch collector in Abu Dhabi. Maybe that's unsurprising. And I never really understood the thesis of, like, speculating on watches, but he was big into that. He would buy and then he would trade and sell. Is that an investment thesis that you buy into or. Not so much.

[Maqsood Agajani]

You know, like at my store, I. I feel happiest when I have a million in watches and a million in gold or something like that. Okay. So you can't ever go wrong with those assets. And they do. Rolex just raised their list prices. So the prices went up on all the watches. And anybody who has a Rolex gained and anybody who didn't is gonna have to be, you know, get their dollars up even higher to get one. So you can't go wrong with some of those assets. And you go, look, you know, you'll see. So run into a YouTube video or something like that. Somebody who bought a Rolex straight out of the army in 1958 or 1963, and they bought it and they kept a box and papers, and they bought it for $650. And today it's worth a quarter of a million or 150,000.

[Tracy Alloway]

Must be nice.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of the things. If you go and buy them today and, you know, you're a young person. If you're a young person listening to this, you know, a few might be. And you go and you buy a Rolex and you don't take the stickers off, and you buy a limited edition and you keep it there. And then you're 65 years old. I know it seems like a long, long time from now, but that day is gonna come, and if you pull that Rolex out of that closet or out of that safe, you're gonna really be happy with what's going on. And that's. That's the nature of watches. Because these companies and these brands do something special for, you know, their. Their timepieces and it's. And it works.

[Joe Weisenthal]

I want to ask a sort of real meat and potatoes business question, but going back to safety and security and operations and, like, you probably have to, like, hiring can't be people for your store. Can't be, like, totally trivial because you have to be able to trust them.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Et cetera. That must be a huge part of it. I'm curious what you've seen. I was talking to my barber recently, and he was saying he had a hard time hiring these days. And I said, well, what's the hard part? Is it that, like, is it hard to find people who could cut hair? And he said, no, they're all. I'm actually just. That's basically what he said. He said the hard part is basically, like, just finding people who are sort of normal and put together. And I'm curious, like, from your perspective, like, what you've seen on that front.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah. You know, New York City is run down in a lot of different ways. So there's a lot of people that, I mean, you got to sort through a lot of people to find a good quality human being.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Okay. A lot of them are usually going to be immigrants that are coming here from all over the world that are really looking to work and have a real work ethic that they're expected to work. People that grow up in this society want to get high. Work is something that, for them to just an obstacle for them to overcome. For them to enjoy themselves and binge on Netflix.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Have you seen the desire to get high? And I mean here in the literal sense of drug use. Has that changed a lot in the 20 years that you've had tracks and having to deal with that?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, listen, you know, I smoke periodically and so on and so forth, but I actually, I have to make sure that I fulfill my obligations to my business. All right, Alcohol is a drug that people partake in after work or so on and so forth. But people have become abusive. And, you know, it's not just the drugs, it's the theft and the overall lack of work ethic in today's society. They just don't understand it. And, you know, people are doing the bare minimum or they're pretending to work or so on and so forth. And the moment you check on their work, it's. That's a serious problem. Luckily, the AI and the robots are coming so they could finally go to Central park and play, you know, Frisbee or whatever they really want to do. But it's, it's quite tragic and those people need to be scrutinized and filtered out and, you know, they really don't have no, any dignity or self respect, in my opinion.

[Tracy Alloway]

Wait, am I going to be buying jewelry from a robot in the near future? Are they going to be behind the counter?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, the beautiful thing is, you know what I'm saying, if jewelry, Jewelry is the last or one of the last few businesses that, you know, escapes the, the eye of Sauron, which would be like a Jeff Bezos, right? All right, Amazon, you, it started out with books, now it's paper towels now. You could hosts a server now. Anything you can imagine. Movies, TV shows. He gobbled up everything but jewelry. I still have this little, a little, you know, territory that I could expand in, and that's by the grace of God if nothing else. So luckily, jewelry is kind of those. One of those few things that's not gonna have a barcode on it.

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[Tracy Alloway]

Award Just going back to hiring. How do you actually find and source your employees? Do you put out an ad or is like through word of mouth, through networking?

[Maqsood Agajani]

I put out an ad, I asked to whatever, you know, if anybody has somebody or I put up a post on social media. But the best way to hire I find is to tell somebody, hey, you're here for a one week trial and if you do well, I'll extend that to a one month trial and if you do well on that too much. I'm not hiring anybody. It's like getting married to somebody at this point. I'm not marrying them until I trust them and really get to know them and see them under a different circumstances. So it's not like the corporate world, it's the diamond district and I really scrutinize them and I also ask the other opinions, hey, how did this person do? Did this person say good? And once you have a good panel of people then you can really, you know, rely on different opinions and build a good group. It's the biggest challenge, especially in the jewelry Business. That's why people work with their family.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah. Is it front of shop that like, are you have the hardest time? I mean, is it the people sort of like working the counter, talking about the jewelry, showing it to them, or is it people in the back? Is it people?

[Maqsood Agajani]

What is everybody. Everybody who touches expensive materials is scary to me. You know, somebody's picking up a casting. Someone's shopping for sapphires. Are they taking a bribe? Are they picking off some stones? Are they taking a couple of grams? Are they doing some other nonsense, nefarious business? Which I've seen it all. I've had employees just take stuff off the shelf and go to the scrapper and scrap it.

[Tracy Alloway]

Wow.

[Maqsood Agajani]

You know, I've, you know, I walked into my shop and I see someone is wearing a chain underneath their neck, a big one, underneath their shirt. But I could see it through the shirt. I'm like, listen, what is that chain? And you know, he fast talks to me. He's like, no, I'm waiting for the client. He's going to come right back. I'm just going to give it to him. And. And I'm like, I'm like, there's no.

[Tracy Alloway]

Keeping it warm in the meantime.

[Maqsood Agajani]

I'm like, there's no way. This person is just looking me dead in the eyes and lying to me. I'm like, okay, turns out he was just stealing it, ready to go home with it. I mean, listen, I've been through everything you can imagine. I've had people forge my signature on a check, you know, pick up double castings. All right, you go to, you have to pick something up for a client. You pick up two, you get one to the client, one for yourself. I've had it all and I've lost my faith in humanity because of it. So, you know, it's.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Humanity will fade away, but that 14 karat gold chain will be there for thousands of years. This gets back to the gold is permanent.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Right back where we started.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah.

[Tracy Alloway]

Wait, so one of the most annoying things I find about shopping for jewelry and I mean, I don't shop for jewelry that often, but when I do, it's like the pricing transparency. Sure. You look in the case and half the time you can't read what's written on the label because they're often handwritten or they've stuck the label like under the ring and so you can't see it.

[Maqsood Agajani]

That's the fun part.

[Tracy Alloway]

Yeah, I get that it's good for you.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Sure you do.

[Tracy Alloway]

What do those prices actually a. How do those prices Come about, like, what do they actually mean? I assume they're all negotiable. They usually are. And then b, how often are you actually changing the labels? Like, if the price of gold goes up.

[Joe Weisenthal]

20%?

[Tracy Alloway]

Yeah, 20%. Do you have to, like, go and rewrite all the little price tags?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, you might have to. That depends on what type of store or what type of operation you're running. Or sometimes you just do the math in your head, or sometimes you say, hey, listen, price of gold went up in next week. I might change this tag by it now. You know, so it's. It is what it is. I mean, the price is based on the raw materials plus labor, you know, plus design, plus the fee that I want to make. And like I said, it doesn't have a barcode on it. It's not like buying a digital camera right now where it's 495 on Amazon and for 88 at Walmart, you know, and you just, okay, I don't want to save this or I don't want to do that or whatever it might be. This is a. It still has a little bit of more of a romance to it to make the purchase and learn the raw materials. And, you know, if I was to tell somebody out there, if you're shopping for something, you're the client and what do you. What should you do is read the real question. Okay, let's. What should Tracy do? All right, Tracy, she could walk into any jewelry store in the diamond district, look at whatever she likes, say, how many carats, how many grams, what's the price? And then walk out the door and buy nothing. Okay, Go to the next store and the next door and the next door, and then come back and say, I saw this over here, but can you do this for me over here? 1850. I come right back. If they give you a look or they do this, don't shop there. That's it. Don't let the pressure you to buy, and don't let them pressure you with a story and whatever it is, because that's kind of the Venus fly trap that people use. They come in, they befriend you, and they use all these crazy social tactics to, you know, get you to get something to buy it. And if you really want to be sharp, you know, when I go to the diamond district and I have to buy sapphires right now, I have to buy a lot of sapphires for. To manufacture chains. One person's telling me this quality for $150 a carat. The other one's telling me this quality for 120, another quality, $60 a carat for something. Somebody might have had something in their safe for 45, and they're willing to let it go for 25. And you can manipulate that system if you shop around and turn the tables on them. So that's what your responsibility is.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Actually, this raises an question that I've sort of wondered about. People talk about this. What's the advantage for you of being in the district? Because it sounds great for the customer. You walk down five different stores, especially if you're getting something fairly generic like a ring or whatever. But, you know, this is this phenomenon that happens in the economy of companies sort of agglomerating in one place. What is the reason for. Why does it advantage you to be in the diamond district versus somewhere else where there isn't a neighbor?

[Maqsood Agajani]

I'll tell you right now. Well, you know, maybe after work today, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna stop by a Korean casting manufacturer that has got some new models in of stretchy bands that have springs in them that are, you know, diamonds all around. And that's not something I could have created or invented. They're not reaching the end consumer. They're not setting their own diamonds. They're just selling, casting. So. So they have that. Someone else might have a sapphire or emerald that I need. And there is someone else might be an incredible diamond setter. There's a casting company that is able to do big castings. If I want to cast a really big piece, okay, someone's an expert in silver. I can't hire all these people. I can't put them all under one roof. And if you want to be, you know, if. Yeah, if I want to. If I manufacture all my jewelry and I know what exactly what I'm selling and I put it in a store, like, I'll go to Madison Avenue or whatever. I'll go downtown. But if I really want to be able to wheel and deal and be competitive, I want to work with all of my friends that I've been doing business with for 20 years in the diamond district and use all of the resources and all the creative energy that's there when it comes to the gems, the gold, the castings, the labor, the sizing, the engravings, the laser etchings, whatever it might be, you know, it's. It's. It's a fun place to do business.

[Tracy Alloway]

Do you expect higher tariffs to impact you at all?

[Maqsood Agajani]

No, not really. I don't really know. I mean, I hear so many stories about These tariffs, One person's this, one person's that. Listen, you know, in my experience, getting people to pay to play isn't the worst thing in the world. So, you know, it might be more difficult on one end, and then someone's got more money on the other end, and then this happens, and then that happens, and there's a chain reaction to a variety of different effects. Try. Try it. At this point, you know, I'm tired of looking at America declining ever since I got here in 1993. Try something.

[Joe Weisenthal]

If I opened a store, I'm actually going back to the diamond. Sometimes Tracy and I joke around.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Sure.

[Joe Weisenthal]

About opening up, you know, going into the businesses of the people we speak to. Can someone new just arrive in the diamond district, or would they be looked at askance? Like, how. Like, how deep are the roots of everyone who's there?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Pretty deep. I mean, money talks. You could establish relationships with money pretty quickly. I established mines with no money, but.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah. How'd you get. How'd you get your foothold there?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Well, I started photographing jewelry and putting it up on eBay in 2004 when people laughed at jewelry on the Internet. So this is when Amazon was pretty cheap to buy and I think was selling books or something at that time. So I was able to start photographing jewelry and putting it up on the Internet. So I would photograph it, put it up, sell it, then buy it and ship it. And I was able to feed different vendors money until they would take me serious and I learned the industry. But unless you have years and years of experience, you don't really want to sit here and go to the diamond district and open up and do anything.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Right.

[Maqsood Agajani]

All right. This is, you know, not the type of thing that you just want. It's like me saying, tomorrow, well, I want to open up, you know, a dentistry something. You know, I'm saying, like, I don't know anything about that industry. I don't know anything about carpets. I don't know anything about, you know, manufacturing or of, you know, computers. It's not my field. I dedicated myself to a field. So if anybody wants to dive into that field, your grandkid might do it, might do well, but you might have a hard time with it. I don't know.

[Tracy Alloway]

There's one other thing I wanted to ask you, which is who is actually buying and whether you've noticed any changes there. Because we hear stories. I mean, obviously you hear stories about, like, China's central bank buying lots of gold or Russia maybe, but, like, do you notice it in terms of actual, like, do Chinese people come in and buy more gold lately?

[Maqsood Agajani]

No, not here particularly, but they might be buying it from someone else. Yeah, I really love to ask my gold vendor, Kahan is his name, or Isaac is his name. Kahan is the company. And, you know, his father and his uncle put that together. Put a business together. They went separate ways, and he just inherited. His father just retired when he was 80. He has a safe full of gold and silver, and he has lots and lots of customers. Who they are, I'm not sure. They're a variety of different people. But personally, people reach out to me. Once in a while. A family member, you know, might want to run into some cash or they just sold their business and they want to spend a half a million bucks on gold or something like that, or a variety of different people. It's. I haven't seen a pattern. Okay. I haven't seen a pattern, and I really haven't seen a rush of it either. Right now, the game is crypto. So it's, you know, that's what they're thinking about, and that's what it is. I'm not a big fan of it at all because I've held gold my whole life. I've passed it, I've gave it, I've hit it, I've sold it, I bought it, I melted it. I've never held a bitcoin. I've never seen one. I've heard of them, and I know they're out there somewhere. But I don't want to wake up in the morning and need my WI FI password to. To get my money.

[Joe Weisenthal]

How secure is your safe password? Is that just in your head? I guess you could always bust it open if you forget it, right?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, I mean, it's. The security is about the cameras that are pointing at it. And yeah, there is a combination plus a key. But listen, you know, I don't take my trays in and out every day. I am. I don't do any of that, to be honest. I have managers and. And managers that manage groups of people that I trust. Some people are trustworthy, believe it or not, in this world. Few. And the example I give is like this, right? The. There's a lot of iron in the world and a lot of base metals, and there's very little but rare. But there is gold. Same thing with people. There's a lot of untrustworthy people. There's a lot of base. Base metals. There's a lot of base people, and then there's a few amazing People that are special, just like the golden metal is special, and the universe creates them, just like the universe creates gold. You look at the periodic chart. You got to figure out where that came from. That's up to you to decide.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Wait, actually, one last question. In. In Uncut Gems and Adam Sandler gave the stone to Kevin Garnett to, like, hold for a while for good luck. Would a jewel, a jeweler ever do that?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yeah, anything can happen. I mean, you know, you might be doing a promotion and you might be putting diamonds on someone.

[Joe Weisenthal]

And this stressed me out so much.

[Tracy Alloway]

The thought of, like the whole movie was.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Stresses me out too. Living it for 20 years.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Stressful as well. So. Yeah, you definitely give your gold and your jewelry and your watches to different people. And you hope you find them at the end of the night, whether they're going to award shows. Sometimes you tell them, hey, you know, one of the lines I use to prevent myself to be in that situation? My insurance company won't allow it.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Oh, that's smart.

[Maqsood Agajani]

So, you know, you get. This is the jewelry business. If you. You put yourself a word game that people are not prepared for, you're prepared for it, but they're not. Oh, my insurance company. If I'll void me if I give out my stuff. Stuff.

[Tracy Alloway]

Have insurance premiums been going up? They must be, right?

[Maqsood Agajani]

Yes, they have. If you don't make any claims, they kind of leave you alone. So, you know, the insurance is like almost a break even game. Right. You know, my insurance is expensive, and if you use it, it goes up. And if you don't use it, you're giving them the money and so on and so forth. But better to have it and not use it.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah.

[Tracy Alloway]

Does it go up in tandem with, like, the price of gold, though?

[Maqsood Agajani]

No.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Huh. Maksud Agajani Tracks NYC thank you so much for coming on, Oddlock.

[Maqsood Agajani]

Hey, thank you. You guys were. Thank you for giving me this golden opportunity.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Glad to have given you your start. All those.

[Tracy Alloway]

All those years we had to have at least one pun.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah.

[Tracy Alloway]

In the conversation.

[Joe Weisenthal]

No, that was fantastic. Thank you so much. That was a lot of fun.

[Maqsood Agajani]

I'm glad.

[Joe Weisenthal]

That was fun, Tracy.

[Tracy Alloway]

It's always fun talking gold jewelry with Max and. Yeah, I mean, I guess the investment thesis has borne out so far.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Gold's done. Gold. Gold's done Great. But I know it was a kind of a joke, but I really do take this seriously, that at any time, no matter what the price of gold is, $100 worth of gold is always $100 and so if you. No, for real. Because if you're thinking like I have X amount of dollar value that I want to store in some other non fiat form. This is true. Right.

[Tracy Alloway]

Well, I'll tell you what was interesting was the idea of like competition with the crypto market. Yeah, that was really interesting because it did. I mean as he was saying, it does sound like people are kind of, you know, it's sort of an either or.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah. Two, especially for like the people who want to like speculate on price. Right. Two other things that I thought were really interesting from that conversation. One is his description of what specifically lab grown diamonds did to the diamond industry about sort of chopping out the low end of the diamond market. Because it makes sense. Why buy a cheap diamond or a low grade diamond when you could get a high grown lab? Once you've already established that you're going to get something cheap, why not get the lab grown version and then the way that that filters through to the price overall. And I was just really interested in like his comments on hiring and how difficult that is. Like I said, I had heard that my barber said the same thing. Like just this core aspect of like hiring people who are sort of like with it not seeking to get high per se. Interesting, interesting comments there.

[Tracy Alloway]

I'm sorry. Speaking of being a bad worker, I'm very distracted by. I looked up the diamond encrusted Furby.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Oh yeah. So how much is that going for?

[Tracy Alloway]

Well, so it got auctioned off by A24, the production company. And I'm trying to find how much it went for but I can't find it at the moment. But I'm just staring at all these animated videos of the diamond fur.

[Joe Weisenthal]

I might watch that movie again.

[Tracy Alloway]

Do you want to? I found it so stressful the first time. I don't think I could.

[Joe Weisenthal]

It was really stressful. But you know, I know how it ends now, so maybe that'll make it a little bit. Maybe that'll make it a little easier.

[Tracy Alloway]

There's some people are making imitation gold Furbies. I gotta get one of those.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah, just get one of those.

[Tracy Alloway]

Okay.

[Joe Weisenthal]

The bronze one.

[Tracy Alloway]

Shall we leave it there before I just start like narrating my online shopping?

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yes, let's leave it there.

[Tracy Alloway]

Okay. This has been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.

[Joe Weisenthal]

And I'm Joe Weisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart. Follow Maqsood Agajani. Check out his Instagram. It's Tracks nyc. Follow our producers Kerman Rodriguez at Kerman, Ermine, Dashiell Bennett at dashbot, and Kell Brooks at Kalebrooks. Thank you to our producer Moses Ondam. For more Odd Lots content go to bloomberg.com oddlots we have transcripts, a blog and a newsletter and you can chat about all of these topics 24. 7 in our Discord, Discord, GG Oddlauts.

[Tracy Alloway]

And if you enjoy Odd Lots, if you like it when Joe says he's gonna be nice to the gold bugs, then please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad free. All you need to do is find the Bloomberg Channel on Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.

[G]

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