← Off the Radar, Special Operations Training Detachment
Off the Radar, Special Operations Training Detachment
SOF Logistics: The Lifeblood of Operations w/ MAJ Casey Phillips
00:40:35
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- [00:01]
A
Special Operations Training Detachment saw D West Burrow team coming at you from ntc. Off the radar. This is off the radar. I'm your host, Captain Connor Meng, an observer coach trainer for Special Operations at the National Training Center. All right, well, welcome back. Today's gonna be a great episode. We got somebody here that I feel we're gonna learn a lot from, myself included. I'll let. We'll go around the room and introduce ourselves, starting with our co host.
- [00:39]
B
I'm Keegan, usually here, and today we're here with Major Casey Phillips.
- [00:44]
A
Sir, if you want to go ahead and introduce yourself, tell us a little about you and where you're from, soft experience and kind of what brought you here on the podcast today.
- [00:53]
C
Okay, so Casey Phillips, major type, currently work with 528 Special Operations Sustainment Brigade in the SPO section. Prior soft experience, I was in 3rd Group last year as a SPO. I have a deployment with Special Operations Command Central as a task force J4OIC. And then prior to that my first office assignment was 10th Special Forces Group. I spent a year on staff there and then I was a FSC commander, Force Support Company commander for 3rd Battalion, 10th Group.
- [01:32]
A
Okay. And for those that don't know, a SPO, what's a SPO is.
- [01:35]
C
So SPO is a support operations. So in the group it's almost like your sustainment version of the S3.
- [01:45]
B
Okay.
- [01:45]
C
So all the support operations are coordinated through there and then they manage all the different support elements within that. Within that unit.
- [01:55]
A
Okay, great. And I think you have a little bit of experience here at NTC as well, sir, right?
- [02:01]
C
Yep. I spent almost two years on a Cobra team as the 170 FSC trainer.
- [02:10]
A
Okay, so logistics guy on Cobra team, not usually the norm, but I'm sure, I think.
- [02:18]
C
And it may have changed, but every team had a 17 team. So if there was an FSC within that battalion, then there was a 17 team. So Tarantula had a 17 Wolf Panther, so on.
- [02:35]
A
Yeah. Okay, that's good to know. I actually didn't know that. We had an episode a few, few months back with the Gold Miner team and I thought that was the only logistics kind of subject matter experts out here. But that's good to hear that there's, there's logistics soldiers on every team. Let's talk a little bit. You mentioned the 528th for those that don't know, kind of like what the 528 submission is where they based out of. And I know we talk like kind of areas of responsibility between the groups and battalions of hogs and. And CA battians. What's. What's the 528 area responsibility, kind of stuff like that.
- [03:10]
C
So 528 is global.
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A
There you go.
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C
So they don't have a specific area. So globally focused, which can be challenging.
- [03:18]
A
Yeah.
- [03:19]
C
But 528 is a subordinate to. In 1st SFC. So just with the groups, the CA 95th CA Brigade and the POGs, 528 is the sustainment unit within 1st Special Forces Command.
- [03:35]
A
Okay.
- [03:36]
C
Kind of like our. In layman's terms, like our mission is we're operationally focused, so not we're kind of up and out versus down and in. We have a special troops battalion. That's where most of our sustainment is housed. But we also have a 389th Military Intelligence Battalion and 1 12th Signal Battalion as well. So three battalions within the brigade. So medical support, log support, and then our. And the SPO in 528 is also. Even though staff is a unit of action as well. So it doesn't operate like a group SPO necessarily. So it's broken down into teams that are deployable. And we can. The 528 can stand up a C2 node forward, usually in support or in theory in support of a sagitta. So Special Operations Joint Task Force, like a GEO level task force. And they can provide the C2s sustainment from that element. And then the SPO teams or ASPOs RSoft support operations teams can deploy. And they're kind of almost like operational sustainment ODAs think of.
- [04:54]
A
Okay, yeah.
- [04:55]
C
I mean they're not, but that's kind of. They can deploy as teams. We can scale it and tailor it so it can. We have individuals deployed right now in support of other task forces forward, but we can also deploy as a team. And that's kind of what we're trying to exercise here is to come in and augment the sat D and kind of give that J4 element.
- [05:18]
A
Okay. Yeah, I. So my experience with 528th being at. At Fort Bragg was really mainly just the riggers doing jumps and stuff. But it sounds like from what you're explaining, you guys probably have the widest array of Moses within a unit under S versus soc.
- [05:35]
C
I believe that is a fact. I can't say for 100%. But yes, it's definitely a lot. And I would say kind of one things that I think one thing about the 528 is almost the embodiment of the CF soft i3. Yeah, like we, we're supposed to go in and tie into theater Sustainment Command or Expeditionary Sustainment Command. So those are one star, two star sustainment elements.
- [06:05]
A
So that's.
- [06:06]
C
So when we. So when you look at like the soft truth of the fifth one of most soft operations require non soft support. Then we're trying to look and see where are those gaps and then help connect to the greater log Enterprise within the joint force and then bring that to bear to help support soft operations.
- [06:29]
A
Yeah, that's an interesting point you just made too. I really didn't think about that. So 528 is primarily non sof mos is correct.
- [06:38]
C
I think we are all non sof moss.
- [06:41]
A
Okay.
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B
Now sir, what kind of prior sof experience will you get with guys that are assigned to this unit, if any? Or is it.
- [06:50]
C
So as far as people coming into 528. So there's no, we don't have the assessment selection. There's no requirement to have soft experience to be in 528. So we get a mix. We do have people who've spent majority of their career in sof. I've spent maybe about almost half my career in sof. And then we have people who are coming to soft for the first time.
- [07:16]
A
Wow. Okay, that's good. I'm just thinking about kind of the complexities of a unit like that where you have everything from a parachute rigger to a Intel guy. 35 Fox. And then you said you guys have signaleers, everything from upper and lower ti stuff that you're. You guys have working. Talk to me a little bit about. And this is probably a really big question that we can spend a whole episode on itself, but what does the 528th, because you talked a little bit about your area responsibility, what do they offer to the joint force in like in a crisis or competition?
- [07:56]
C
So because of the uniqueness of the battalions, you know, it can, it can vary. But I would, I would, I would say that at least from my perspective is what we try to do is we want to be able to set the theater so that we can scale up whether it's soft or conventional, that we can potentially receive them and set that theater, if it's immature theater, so they can begin to mature as we arrive. Whether that's establishing contracts, working through relationships that may have already been established there and now leveraging some of those resources to help rapidly support. We have other elements. So we have our austere, our surgical team, our arst. They can come in, provide medical Support, they are surgeons. They work out of a hospital so they can provide medical care while we're still establishing the conventional force. Medical. Medical care. So that role two roll three, while it's not in theater just quite yet, we could have that in rapidly. So potentially if you stood up as the jitter mentioned before, so we could stand up and run that J4 or augment it if needed. So again, really just depends on what's your aor, what's the mission focus? And then we'll scale and then figuring out the requirements that we will scale it and tailor it to those.
- [09:38]
B
Okay, so are you normally supporting the highest echelon then that's sojitif. Or is it just sort of like, hey, this is where 528 is aligned, but these subordinate elements can get out and support smaller.
- [09:53]
C
No, I think you hit the nail on the head with that. So we. That's kind of what we see happen a lot. So there's not a lot of those higher level echelons. So as far as us employing at scale, we don't see a lot of that. So we still. So even though we are focused operationally, we are employed tactically quite often. So that's a good point.
- [10:16]
A
Okay, can you talk to us a little bit? So when we had Gold Miner team on kind of dove into the differences between an fsc, a CSSB dove. Want to really go into this art and science of that. But just for people that are unaware how you guys are task organized, I think we've talked a little bit about it between some of your more rapidly mobile teams. But do you guys have fscs or are you guys broken down? Kind of like a GSB would be or something like that?
- [10:46]
C
Yeah. So within the 528th so we do have an FSC. We have a unique task org within our special troops battalion. So we have a 4 support company that's in the National Guard and we have a special troops support company in the National Guard as well. So similar to kind of like 19th and 20th groups, we have two companies, support companies that fall under our STB that are in the National Guard, but we don't have FSCs in the way that the groups used to have. So even in the groups those FSCs are going away. Different battalions within the force are at different stages of where of their transformation, but they're moving towards service detachments now. Okay, I'm not 100% on what those look like. So don't, you know, I don't want to say the wrong thing. And then Someone calls me later on that. But I do know it's going to service detachments and, and then the GSB is retaining some of those lower density moss that used to be within the SF battalion. So think of your armament, your weapons, mechanics, your electronic maintenance. So like your MVGs radios.
- [12:06]
B
Okay, so specialized MOS is getting pulled up.
- [12:09]
C
Correct.
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A
Okay.
- [12:09]
C
And so that they're keeping. But the battalions will retain kind of a small maintenance element. They still have their four shop, so they still retain a little bit there. But the cooks have moved all and got consolidated under the group support battalion as well.
- [12:27]
A
Do you guys do any type of or how much connectivity do you have to the groups? I guess now service detachments, which was previously the service. Or I'm sorry, fscs.
- [12:40]
C
Yeah, So I would say not, not at that level as much, but at the group or GSB level.
- [12:47]
A
Yeah.
- [12:48]
C
So there we have different sync meetings or touch points that commanders will have with the 528 GSB commanders have with the 528 commander. So that. So we are aware of what they are doing, which then helps us understand where emerging requirements are coming from as well.
- [13:10]
A
Great.
- [13:12]
B
Major Phillips, I've got a question. Here at the 528th and really at any logistical node that's supporting a SOF element, what are you guys looking for in a soldier, an NCO and an officer?
- [13:26]
C
All right, well, a little bit of a loaded question. I am not the.
- [13:30]
A
Put me on the hot seat.
- [13:31]
C
Yeah. I'm not the person who. I'll give my opinion on that.
- [13:36]
B
The resident expert in the room right now. So I'll take your word for it.
- [13:40]
C
But I, Yeah, so I just want to preface that and I just. This, this is Casey Phillips opinion. But a couple things in that. And, and I think this could really apply to more than logistics. But know your operational environment, know who you're supporting. So are you supporting Rangers? Are you supporting Special Forces, ca, et cetera. Know the missions you're supporting, understand what's that end. State the lines of effort, understand the context in which you're operating in. Know where you are both physically in a literal sense, but know the AOR and the uniqueness to that because there's certain nuances within those AORs that as a logistician, you could potentially leverage and then know what's available to you because oftentimes there is a conventional force somewhere nearby and know what they have that you can potentially go that you could potentially leverage. It may not always be army, you know, it could be Air Force, Navy, and then a couple others Provide the commander with options when possible, give as many options as possible and then continuously and aggressively learn. Because we don't have that pipeline that you guys do. So we have to learn what you do. And unless we take the initiative to do that, then we're only going to be able to get so far. So to be able to support you the best way, we have to constantly be learning and growing as you guys are now.
- [15:31]
B
So understanding you guys don't have an assessment or selection to get job as a logistics soldier with sof, what would you recommend for these smaller logistics elements out there as far as onboarding and preparing guys for like, hey, just showed up to the job, no experience with soft. What do you think would be best for them?
- [15:58]
C
I'll say, I'll say what happened to me in 10th group and this was just kind of happen chance but if I could go back, I would deliberately do this. But I was working out and talking to some guys. One of them happened to be CW2. And so we kind of developed a relationship from there. Just, you know, cool gym bros pretty much. And. But I would ask questions of him all the time, like hey, I heard this in this meeting, I don't know what this is. Hey, they want me to support this, like what am I supporting? And he could explain that operation. And then that would sometimes give me ideas to say, well, if that's really what they're trying to do, then there's a better way to do this. So I would say, you know, be humble and open and don't be afraid to ask the question. Like you don't know everything. And sometimes because you may be the only sustainment person in the room, people tend to forget that you may not know. So you got to speak up and ask the question. And there's no shame in that because you do. There's a bunch of stuff that you know, that you can add value to if you simply have a better understanding.
- [17:16]
B
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
- [17:18]
A
That's great.
- [17:19]
B
Now out here, right? NTC, we're kind of focused at the AOB level. So we got AOBs, CA companies and PSYOP companies that come out. What would your recommendation be to those commanders, those command teams and those companies as far as considerations for their concept to support?
- [17:41]
C
I would say develop it as early as possible, even if it's rough, rough draft, like all caps rough, like get that established as early as possible so you can start iterating on it and refining that. Understand what your requirements are and then start to understand what are your shortfalls. So you can't meet or support all these requirements with what you organically have. Those shortfalls translate to risk. So commanders always need to understand risk. Is that risk to force or risk to mission? And then one thing that I would say, you know, if I was talking some of the AOB commanders to consider is does it make sense to compartmentalize your sustainment in ways that makes it more more efficient? So the subscend concept like, but at an AOB level, do you need to request for forces from somewhere like the GSB? Do you need someone to augment you from the S4 shot? And that one person may provide you with a ton of options. And then one other thing I mentioned too was like, but from an AOB side is what is available from the conventional force because they're off. They're pretty much out here with a brigade, right?
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A
Usually.
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C
Yeah, yeah. So what's available from them? And then do they need to support their partner force?
- [19:15]
B
That's a very good one.
- [19:16]
C
Are they, is that something that they're being asked to do or is it something that they need to consider? They probably at least need to consider it because when you talk partner force, they're often not using the same ammunition we are. They're not using maybe the same fuel, same types of vehicles, things like that. And so for, so they may not have the answer, but they can request for that stuff through a higher echelon. But if it's going to be for partner force, then it's not something we have on hand, then it requires a little bit of time. So the earlier you can ask that question, the better off. And then for the AOBs, what I would also say is participate in the sustainment rehearsal. I think they, I think I heard that on the podcast with the Gold Miner reps. But whether it's your Charlie or your Delta or your exo, whoever it is, or a couple of them, again if you can part create sort of your own mini subs and have them in the sustainment rehearsal to make sure that you are integrated, you know, in the right place, right time with conventional forces, I think, I think those would be greatly beneficial for the AOB level.
- [20:32]
A
Yeah, I've observed it through my time here. I think a lot of the company command teams, aob, CA or psyop, they get so into the fight and they really try and be self reliant a lot of the times with their own capabilities, whether it's sustaining medical through their own 18 Deltas or Soca medics or just using their partner force and vehicles. To run supplies back and forth, not realizing, I guess, the vast wealth of resources that's around them. But it takes, like you said, some planning and some really good rehearsals on the, on the front end to know where your, your kind of downfalls or your shortfalls are. Knowing kind of your background at ntc. I don't think we talked about this, but you're out here actually supporting a rotation right now, correct, sir?
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C
Correct.
- [21:24]
A
What are you guys looking to get as a. I guess what unit did you guys bring out here as far as like echelon? Is it a team company? Assuming the whole brigade is not out here. So what are you guys looking to get out of this rotation? Because I don't believe. Keegan, I've seen any soft logistic units since I've been here.
- [21:45]
B
I have not.
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A
So it is, I don't say it's a rarity, but it's good to see it. So what are you guys trying to get out of this rotation and kind of in the future, what does that look like for you guys?
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C
Yeah, so I talked about our ASPO teams, so our RSoft support operations teams. So I'm the OSC of one of those teams and basically we're taking about half a team. So me and a couple of the NCOs and then we're going to augment your guys, the Special Operations Training Detachment, SAT D Highcom. So, okay, so as you guys establish a SODIF, we are going to provide the SODIF J4. And so it's. The idea is that it helps you guys out and it gives you that sustainment perspective, that focus in on logistics, a little bit more bandwidth to do so. But it's also good training for us on how do we support soft unit on the ground. And so as I mentioned before, we could augment or potentially stand up a J4. Well, we have to get reps at that and this is a really good environment to do that at where it's dynamic, it's changing and we kind of have to learn from the ground up, which I think replicates what we would have to do if we were to employ this in a real world situation.
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A
Right.
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B
So a lot of the logistics stuff, the problems that we face on the soft side are non standard distribution problems. What do you guys do or what are you doing to prepare for issues like that?
- [23:25]
C
So the short and easy answer is it depends because it really just goes back to again, know your mission, know who you're supporting, know your aor. But we're, I mean we're really trying to figure some of this stuff out about like how do you train for all these variables, how do you take them into consideration? So you may not replicate whatever the next conflict looks like exactly. But you know, the closer you can come, you know, it's really good to get those reps. So something that we've been exploring and really trying to sort of crack the nut on is how do we incorporate 528 at some echelon into a CTC. I mean in a, in a perfect world we would be able to get the entire Brigade, the O6 headquarters out and we can run myriad of operations to include non standard. That may not be feasible but that's kind of, I'd say maybe the secondary purpose of me being out here. So I'm trying to run a little bit of a feasibility assessment.
- [24:46]
B
Okay.
- [24:46]
C
And see if there is an opportunity that we can. Maybe it's not our 06, maybe it's our 05 or maybe it's just a 04 plussed up like a support center with. It'd be like an FSC plus but a battalion minus task force, detachment, whatever you want to call it. Where we could build out some scenarios that one make us link in with the conventional force and also where we can take the opportunity to really test out some of the non standard tactics and techniques. Practice. See what, what's best practice. And so we are looking to develop that out in what I think you guys call like the super box.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So not just NTC but all the way down to you know, potentially like East LA March Air Force Base, 29 palms and looking at, looking at those areas of how could we tile that in.
- [25:51]
A
So, so like basically creating a rotation or scenario very soft logistics based, very heavy, heavily focused on soft logistics.
- [26:01]
C
In a perfect world we would be able to get that off the ground and running. I think it's very doable. I mean we could look at this from a operational preparation of the environment and competition and crisis and then sort of ramp it up to conflict where we go from a semi permissible to a non permissible environment and then what works within those scenarios because it'll change depending on where we're at in that continuum. Absolutely. And so it's much better to practice out here, learn some hard lessons than it would be again in a real
- [26:40]
B
world from what I've seen. I don't want to say hand wave because that's a dirty word here, but a lot of the logistics side of things because we don't have logistics personnel with these Soft elements we're working with most of the time is just sort of like, yeah, this equipment is here.
- [26:59]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just here.
- [27:01]
C
I'm very aware of that. I've seen that more than a few times and, and it's a challenge for sure. But I think it's something that is worth the effort in trying to figure out, you know, kind of a buzzword. At least, at least in my field is contested logistics. Like we hear that a lot. What are we going to do about it? And what I hope that we don't do and what I fear we may be doing at different times is we are just admiring the problem and we are not. When we have a couple of CTCs, NTC where my feeling is that you guys are very welcoming of the idea of us doing this training. So I'd much rather us take advantage and let's start presenting solutions to the problem, see which ones work best.
- [27:59]
B
It's an important thing, logistics, having it work properly. Right. And if we don't get a real rep at it, you guys don't get a real rep at it before we have to do it for real. Yeah, we'll have problems, I'm sure.
- [28:11]
A
Oh yeah, it'll put a halt in the, whatever you're doing very quickly. I'm scratching my brain now thinking like Keegan as a, as a previous ODA commander is thinking about, you know, how am I getting fuel, water class one, class five forward of where I need to go next op, next mss, I'm thinking as a CA guy, how am I getting supplies here? So as the flots moving and we're trying to transition that consolidation of gains, how do we make sure we have resources to pass on to whether that's compo3ca or if that's National Guard or the host nation government. Like we're not just leaving them in this barren wasteland. So it's like you kind of hit on it like it's, it's just a continuous problem that's going to, it's going to exist in all phases, whether it's infiltration, main effort and then eventually as your brigade or whatever unit you're supporting is pushing forward. It doesn't end like it's oh yeah, we're still back here. Maybe not contested logistics, but definitely not the easiest environment to have.
- [29:12]
B
Well, yeah, to admire the problem further. It's a full time job like figuring out those logistics problems and if the ODA has to solve those problems, they're not being effective or the CA team or The PSYOP team insert whatever element they're having to figure it out on their own. Now they're not able to do the job that they're supposed to do.
- [29:30]
C
Right. Yeah. And that's why I would encourage, you know, to try to close that gap for the soft tribe members. So the ones that are soft MOS, like, go talk to your S4, go talk to your SPO and ask some questions. And then on the other. On the flip side, I would always encourage the S4s, the people new to the group or new to soft. Go hunt out those people. You know, if you're in a SF group and you spent two, three years talking to Green Berets, make sure you go find a PSYOP or a CA person and. And ask them some questions to see. Because I. I actually believe with CA there in a Venn diagram, there's a lot of crossover. Some of the assessments that you guys do could really be enhanced if we understand the purpose of the assessment. If I'm assessing an airfield, it may be worth it to take a rigor with you.
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A
Yeah, if.
- [30:25]
C
Because what are we. Are we planning on doing airdrops later?
- [30:30]
A
Yeah.
- [30:31]
C
Is the CA guy going to know what it takes to make an ad hoc rigor shed? I mean. Yeah, so. So. So there's. There's definitely, you know, a lot of crossover there, and it's just as simple as just kind of starting the relationship, asking a question.
- [30:49]
A
Yeah, no, that's. That's. That's a good. That's kind of. That's good insight. Another great thing about ntc, within doctrine, we're allowed to kind of be very innovative and experiment. Through my time here, I've seen. I think it was a few rotations ago, they had something called a pcad. I can't remember for the life of me what it was, but it was. One of the SF companies brought a pcat and it was kind of like a mobile surgical team where they had a pa. I don't know if you remember that.
- [31:18]
B
Oh, okay.
- [31:18]
A
There's a National Guard unit. They had a. I can't remember what it was, what it stood for, but it was cool to see them put into practice because not only did it support the aob, but it also supported the Brigade Combat Team because they were requesting. Once they found out, hey, you guys have essentially a surgeon on the back of an M raiser and are highly mobile and can be protected. Like, we want that, you know, so they were. Those dudes were getting tossed around the entire box. So it's it kind of opens up options for you guys in the future, being more experimental. Experimental, unlike task organization, how you can detach and attach units to ODAs, AOBs, CA themes, et cetera. I want to transition because we've kind of hit on it. But what do you think going forward? And Keegan kind of talked about company command teams, but going forward, like, we're always trying to talk about this soft CFI three piece of conventional force, but I think, I don't say we have a problem with, but I think there's a disconnect sometimes between our own enterprise and the soft environment where, like you said, ca people probably don't know what the 528th can offer to the fullest extent. Or maybe an AOB commander doesn't understand, like, what a brigade combat team's FSB brings to the fight. And maybe that's just a broadcasting piece where, like, we have to be better at, you know, that capes brief. When we start working with each other, especially when we're coming from different units, where it's. Maybe it's a 10th group ODA or AOB with a brigade combat team from Fort Drum or something, and we're never working together. What do you think? Because we like to pride ourselves on being adaptive. What do you think is. Is a good, I guess a good rep out here at NTC first for like a soft unit and their logistics guys, Whether that's just like their supply dude and their aob, or if they have like a full team like you said, what do you think is success? And that doesn't mean like, hey, we killed all Black Horse and we freed the box. What do you see? We do that every time.
- [33:25]
C
I was going to say, I've been in oc, so everybody thinks they win it and dc?
- [33:30]
A
No, no, no. Absolutely not.
- [33:32]
C
But I. I would say, just given the infrequency that Soft Sustainments Incorporated,
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A
I
- [33:44]
C
would say that simply coming here is a win. Yeah, I mean, I know it sounds like a low bar, but. And then the bigger the unit, the bigger the win. If we can, you know, so if we can get a team, that's great. If we can get support company or logistics company, that's great. You know, if we get a battalion, that's amazing because. Because now we're getting into areas that we haven't really done before. And so then with that, that means that if we haven't done it before, when you try something for the first time, like, there's going to be a lot of hiccups. There's Going to be missteps. And so again simply trying out things, trying different task organizations, seeing what worked and what didn't, not being too harsh on the. It didn't work. So trash it. And maybe it didn't work in this particular situation. It could be more of a personality thing, it could be a specific mission it wasn't optimal for. So I think. But we learn from that. So the more we can try the, the better. Like I think even we talk about the, the triad, the soft space, cyber. There's probably. Well, I think I'll say again this is Casey Phillips opinion but there is some, there's a possibility that we could do offensive logistics if we could incorporate some space and cyber into that. So if we can diagram and map out a supply chain and both the physical and then the non physical spectrum of it now we can start looking at identifying what's critical to the enemy, ordering it for ourselves to get it off of the shelves immediately identify the software and mechanisms in which they order it and now have space and cyber target that, to deny that so they can't restock, replenish. So, so there, there's some, you know, what situation would that work? I know there's some people who may look at that and say like oh, that's not really our lane. It's typically support. But the CTC would be a great place to try some of that stuff out.
- [35:59]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:00]
B
I know our listeners can't see, but I just perked up when we talked about targeting the enemy with logistics. I think it's awesome.
- [36:06]
C
It's brilliant.
- [36:06]
A
Yeah, yeah. And this is a good, like you said, this is a great place to try it, you know.
- [36:10]
C
Yes, try it.
- [36:12]
A
And if it fails? Well, it's what we try and do here is let units test their SOPs and if they don't work then you just go back home and you revise them. Right, but this is the place to do it.
- [36:22]
C
Yeah, that's actually. It just kind of made me sort of riff off of take that and then earlier but you know, benefit of being out here and experimenting with stuff but create a targeting cell within a, within the sustainment unit and, and just go after as much as you can, however you want to task or get to make it effective again, that could be looked at later as retask or good. Or do you push those, do you just establish the targets and then push them into a targeting cycle at core or wherever? If you don't necessarily have those,
- [37:01]
A
if
- [37:01]
C
you're not able to go after the targets yourself but There's a lot of stuff that we could look at. Standard, non standard or kind of unique stuff or thinking about what makes me think kind of what. I guess some of these ideas come from her. General Ferguson talking about being audacious and creative and like how do you do that as a logistician in soft? And so that's something that's, that's kind of always on the forefront of my mind.
- [37:32]
A
Yeah, that's. I think that's what we want out here at NTC is obviously within doctrine. Right. We say doctrinally sound or tactically necessary, but like being audacious, trying things, trying equipment, trying task words, I actually think
- [37:47]
C
we, we catch up to the, or the doctrine catches up to us.
- [37:50]
A
Right.
- [37:51]
C
So CTC doctrines, it's nice, it's a foundation, but we should be pushing the envelope out here and then as we validate it, then the doctrine will catch up to it on the back end.
- [38:06]
A
Yeah, that's a great point. No, I think a lot of learning for me on my end, I think as a soft mos, like Keegan said, I don't want to say it hand waves itself, whether it's at company level training, it's just, it's rarely incorporated. And then like, like you said sir, when, when it comes time to actually do it, we often just don't know what we don't know, we don't know what's available to us and then that connective tissue is not built. And so this is a great place I think for like you said, if it's a win, if you guys are just here, whether you're supporting on the ground, in the rotation or like what you guys are doing now, helping augment this, the soda to provide a real realistic J4 cell that's actually giving input for the unit. I think it's great.
- [38:57]
B
Yeah. Honestly, what is going to make the difference in combat is being good at those fundamental life saving skills. And for prolonged operations, logistics is definitely one of those. Right. So if you are an element coming out here or a logistics element listening to this, come here or go to jrtc, do this training, get a good rep and then share those lessons learned. Right. This is how the organization gets better. And really that's, that's the goal out here.
- [39:25]
A
Yeah, yeah. Sir, do you have anything, any parting thoughts before we wrap up here?
- [39:30]
C
I'm gonna give just a quick note that I got from one of my old commanders. Said logistics is like air. As long as you have it, you don't really think about it. The moment you don't have it. It's all you think about.
- [39:46]
A
Poetic. Yeah, that's great.
- [39:49]
C
That's great.
- [39:49]
A
Well, sir, we really appreciate you.
- [39:51]
C
I appreciate you guys. Glad to be here. Yeah, I'm a long time listener.
- [39:55]
A
Yeah, that's great. I'm glad to hear it.
- [39:57]
B
Thank you.
- [39:58]
C
First time caller.
- [39:59]
A
First time caller. Long time listener. All right, well, appreciate it. If you are interested in being a guest on the off the Radar podcast or have a topic you'd like us to cover, please contact the off the radar team@offtheradarpodcastteammail.com. thank you for listening to off the Radar, where RSoft prepares for conflict like subscribe and share on your listening platform.