Off the Radar: Are Dire Wolves Back? The Science & Ethics of De-Extinction

Hosted by Emily Gracey | Released April 15, 2025

Introduction

In the April 15, 2025 episode of Off the Radar, hosted by Meteorologist Emily Gracey, the conversation delves into the groundbreaking and controversial topic of de-extinction. The episode, titled "Are Dire Wolves Back? The Science & Ethics of De-Extinction," explores the scientific advancements made by Colossal Biosciences in resurrecting extinct species and the profound ethical questions these endeavors raise.

Colossal Biosciences' Dire Wolf De-Extinction Project

Emily Gracey sets the stage by introducing listeners to Colossal Biosciences' ambitious project to bring back the dire wolf—a species extinct for approximately 10,000 years. Drawing parallels to the fictional direwolves from Game of Thrones, Gracey explains how Colossal extracted DNA from ancient fossils to bioengineer dire wolves.

Emily Gracey [00:00]: "...Colossal Biosciences claims to have successfully created the first de extinct dire wolves using DNA from ancient fossils."

The process involved using genetic markers from a 13,000-year-old dire wolf tooth found in Ohio and a 72,000-year-old skull from Idaho. By modifying 14 genes from gray wolves, scientists achieved a 91% genetic match to the extinct species. The first two de-extinct dire wolves, named Romulus and Remus, were born through surrogacy involving dog egg cells. A third wolf, Khaleesi, pays homage to the Game of Thrones character, highlighting the cultural influences intertwined with scientific pursuits.

Ethical Considerations of De-Extinction

To navigate the ethical landscape of de-extinction, Gracey interviews Dr. Jay Odenbaugh, a professor specializing in the philosophy of science.

Emily Gracey [07:38]: "So let's talk about this. Can you give me a little background on what actually has happened here with Colossal Biosciences and what they've done with dire wolves?"

Dr. Jay Odenbaugh [06:12]: "Colossal has basically used precision gene editing to take essentially two samples of dire wolf bone... to create what appears to be a dire wolf."

Odenbaugh expresses skepticism about whether these genetically modified wolves can truly be classified as dire wolves, suggesting they might be hybrids between gray wolves and dire wolves. He questions the validity of labeling them as de-extinct species when the genetic makeup is predominantly that of modern wolves.

Dr. Odenbaugh [07:25]: "I'm suspicious in this case that we actually have A dire wolf... it's really why I'm a bit suspicious."

The ethical debate extends to motivations behind de-extinction. While some may argue for restoring lost species as a form of ecological correction, others, like Odenbaugh, warn against the implications of “playing God” and the potential for human hubris in manipulating genetic codes.

Emily Gracey [08:38]: "Why would anybody do this?"

Dr. Odenbaugh [08:44]: "One rationale is that it looks cool, and so we should do it... almost a Jurassic Park like, justification."

Ecological Implications and Future Projects

The conversation shifts to the ecological roles these de-extinct wolves might play. Historically, dire wolves were apex predators, capable of hunting large prey such as horses, bison, and woolly mammoths. However, brought into the modern world, their ecological niche has significantly changed.

Odenbaugh highlights concerns regarding their survival and ecological impact in today's environment, which has evolved dramatically since their extinction. The dire wolves are currently housed in an undisclosed ecological reserve, raising questions about their well-being and the feasibility of their integration into modern ecosystems.

Dr. Odenbaugh [09:48]: "They will be on this ecological preserve forever... raises another ethical concern, which is the well-being of those individual wolves."

Looking ahead, Colossal Biosciences plans to tackle de-extinction projects involving woolly mammoths and dodo birds by 2028. The woolly mammoth revival is presented as a potential solution to combat climate change by preventing permafrost melt through ecological activities akin to those the mammoths once performed.

Dr. Odenbaugh [11:12]: "If we could reintroduce woolly mammoths, they could do this really valuable thing for us."

However, these initiatives bring forth the risk of disrupting current ecosystems, introducing species into habitats that have long moved beyond their original environmental contexts.

Human Genetic Engineering and Broader Concerns

The discussion broadens to consider the implications of genetic engineering beyond animal de-extinction. Specifically, the ethical dilemmas surrounding human genetic modification are examined.

Odenbaugh warns against the slippery slope toward designer babies and eugenics, where genetic engineering could be misused to select for superficial traits or perceived desirable characteristics, thereby perpetuating harmful societal biases and ethical violations.

Dr. Odenbaugh [15:12]: "It's a dangerous road... it's a form of eugenics."

The potential for gene editing in humans raises significant concerns about consent, societal impacts, and the moral responsibilities of those wielding such technologies.

Controls and Oversight in Genetic Engineering

A critical point in the conversation revolves around the regulation and oversight of genetic engineering projects. Odenbaugh emphasizes that Colossal Biosciences operates as a private company, conducting these experiments outside the stringent controls that govern federal or academic research.

Dr. Odenbaugh [16:55]: "Colossal is a private company... it's kind of a wild west at this point."

The lack of comprehensive regulatory frameworks for de-extinction projects poses risks related to ethical standards, ecological balance, and the prioritization of conservation efforts over controversial genetic manipulations.

Conclusion

Emily Gracey and Dr. Jay Odenbaugh conclude the episode by stressing the need for balanced perspectives on genetic engineering. While recognizing the immense potential for scientific advancements that can benefit society, they caution against unbridled enthusiasm that neglects ethical considerations and long-term ecological impacts.

Dr. Odenbaugh [18:03]: "We have to find a balance between very extreme views... we’ve opened the door and now we need to think carefully about the ethics behind all of it."

Gracey wraps up by acknowledging the complexity of the issue, highlighting the importance of ongoing dialogue and thoughtful deliberation as humanity navigates the uncharted waters of de-extinction and genetic engineering.

Key Takeaways

• De-Extinction Feasibility: Colossal Biosciences has made significant strides in bringing back the dire wolf using genetic modification, though the authenticity of these creatures as true dire wolves remains debated.

• Ethical Dilemmas: The process raises profound ethical questions about human intervention in natural extinction events and the responsibilities that come with such technological power.

• Ecological Impact: Introducing de-extinct species into modern ecosystems could have unpredictable and potentially disruptive effects, necessitating careful consideration and management.

• Regulatory Gaps: The current state of genetic engineering in private enterprises like Colossal Biosciences operates in a regulatory gray area, highlighting the need for comprehensive oversight.

• Broader Implications: The conversation extends to human genetic engineering, warning against the dangers of designer traits and eugenics, and underscores the importance of ethical considerations in all genetic modifications.

This episode of Off the Radar provides a comprehensive exploration of the science and ethics surrounding de-extinction, urging listeners to reflect on the balance between scientific innovation and moral responsibility.