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- [00:01]
A
40 mile per hour winds slice across your face while temperatures plummet to negative 20 degrees Fahrenheit. Then the clouds part, revealing nature's ultimate Mount Everest. The legendary Khumbu Glacier lies ahead. A massive river of ice that's guided generations of climbers toward the summit. But this ancient pathway is melting. Where seasoned guides once found reliable routes, they now face unstable terrain. The world's highest peak is being reshaped by the forces we set in motion.
- [00:41]
B
You have to be on the lookout and be prepared for rock slides and avalanches because they are becoming much more prevalent now that you see these temperature changes that it's not the same Everest anymore.
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A
Today, adventurer Scott Thuman takes us on his journey through the shifting landscape, becoming.
- [00:59]
B
Much more difficult, much more dangerous for all of those trekkers who are going up.
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A
As temperatures rise, the window for safe summit attempts narrows each year, leaving climbers racing against both time and climate.
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B
People are going to literally run out of oxygen while they're standing in line to summit that last few hundred meters.
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A
Join us as we witness climate change transforming the roof of the world and discover what's at stake stake for the future of Everest mountaineering.
- [01:28]
B
How many more years can can that happen? And how many more years before you maybe have some shutdown of permitting or at least a limitation of it, that Everest becomes even more elusive for people?
- [01:41]
A
I'm meteorologist Emily Gracie and you're listening to off the Radar, a production of the National Weather Desk. On the show we dig deep into topics about weather, climate, the ocean, space and much more. Our goal is to help you better understand the weather and to love it as much as we do. Mount Everest, 29,032ft above sea level. The highest point on our planet. A place so tall that even commercial jets cruise at lower altitudes. A mountain so extreme that its summit sits in the jet stream where winds can reach hurricane force and temperatures plunged to minus 60 degrees Fahrenheit height. And for nearly a century it's been the ultimate symbol of human achievement and exploration. But this adventure hotspot is transforming. Today I'm talking to Scott Thuman, the main News anchor at 7News in Washington D.C. to hear his story of tackling this natural wonder. This is part one in a two part series about the changing climate on Everest. Coming up in a few weeks, I'll be talking to a glaciologist that's studying the Khumbu Glacier. He'll share what's already changed and what could happen in the future on Everest. Now here's my talk with Scott Thuman, so glad to have you on the podcast today to talk about this amazing adventure that you went on, because today's episode is all about Mount Everest and you actually went there and had quite the adventure yourself. So I want to talk to you a little bit about this. First of all, a little background on you. You are a fellow Sinclair employee and you are working out of wjla. Right. But you've been with Sinclair for a long time. Tell me a brief history here on your employment with the company.
- [03:29]
B
Sure. Yeah. I came to Washington D.C. back in 2005 as a reporter for WJLA, ABC 7 News in D.C. and then subsequently we were eventually purchased by Sinclair. I instantly became the chief political correspondent for the entire group. So I was working Capitol Hill, White House, wherever that story needed to be told and then traveling a lot as well covering the campaigns. And so I was with the the bureau until January of 24 when I came back to Channel 7 as the main evening news anchor and late news anchor. So I anchor the 5, 6, 10 and 11 o'clock newscasts every night.
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A
Gotcha. But glad to have you on today to talk about Mount Everest. Something you did. This was a bucket list item for you, right? Was this a lifelong dream to do this?
- [04:17]
B
It was. Well, in full disclosure, the lifelong dream was to summit, but it just wasn't in the cards for timing and life and everything else at this point. So I had maybe a handful of years prior been to Tanzania to summit Mount Kilimanjaro, which is the tallest lone standing mountain in the world, although pales in comparison to Everest when you consider it's part of a range. So while I was in Tanzania, I went by myself and I met this group of people who I climbed and hiked Kilimanjaro with. We all became fast friends. And then as a result, a few years ago, a couple of them hit me up and said, hey, we're going to do Everest. And I said, I'm in. I just jumped at that opportunity, even though it wasn't a summit. And so we plotted it out and, and then I went in the kind of the beginning of what you might call the monsoon season, you know, climbing to, to the top of Everest no longer tenable based on the conditions that time of year. But yeah, it was always on the list and didn't dis. And the Himalayas are just a spectacle that are are really incomparable.
- [05:23]
A
Yeah. I have so many more questions about weather and getting up there. But did I know that you turned 50 while you were on the trail too. Was that planned or did you just happen to line up?
- [05:34]
B
No, you know, I was doing this kind of like selfish, immature, pouty thing about turning 50 at the time, and I, I genuinely didn't want to be around anyone anyway. And it just coincided that this trip that we had already plotted out was going to be that week. And I didn't really say anything, even to my climbing friends at first. It wasn't until I think, you know, day two or three that I even told him I was, was going to turn 50 on the, on the track. So, no, there was no big hoopla surrounding it, although it was the greatest gift you could imagine to wake up that day. And it was the first day on this long trek that you could actually visually see Everest, that the clouds had parted and it was just kind of this, you know, perfect unveiling.
- [06:16]
A
Yes. Okay, so let's talk about kind of the process of getting there. Did you have to do so much research ahead of time on Everest? Did you have a lot of knowledge of just that journey itself?
- [06:29]
B
I had read up a lot over the years just because I always had this passion for being there and seeing it. So I knew some of the basics, but there's a lot you still have to learn. And so, yes, there was a tremendous amount of reading to, to see what exactly that trek entailed and what kind of endurance you would really need. I mean, again, I had done some pretty good treks and hikes and climbs over the years, both domestically and internationally. So I had some experience. But, you know, this is a different beast. Even though it was just base camp plus, it was still something you had to prep for and train for. And high altitude is. I always say it's the great equalizer. It doesn't matter what good a shape you're in or how athletic you may be. I've seen, you know, people in far better shape than I who have basically passed out on mountains because they haven't been able to, to handle that. So you just don't know how your body's going to react. And so there's a lot of that. There's a lot of just getting in shape, making sure your stamina is up, equipment matters, clothing matters a lot, and the weather is insanely unpredictable up there. And you also have to build in, which is really interesting. A lot of extra leeway time wise on both the begin and the end of your itinerary because if the weather shifts, if it's poor, you have no recourse. And so in our case, we planned on Leaving one particular day to start our trek and get back a day. All of that was thrown off because of the weather. We couldn't fly in to our starting point for two days. And so then we had to totally abandon our initial plan, which was a flight to an airport there that a lot of people, you know, like to call the most dangerous airport in the world. I don't know if the statistics really prove that, but it's a, it's a dicey flight. And we had to change those plans, abandon those plane tickets, because no plane pilots would take us there. And instead we had to, for two days, try and find a helicopter pilot that was willing to bring us in. We found one, you know, paid out cash there at the moment, hopped on a chopper. But even then, it wouldn't get us to the point that we wanted to just start the trek because the conditions are just so bad.
- [08:40]
A
At any point with that whole, we can't get a flight in because nobody wants to do it because it's too dangerous. At any point where you're like, this is not a good idea, maybe we should rethink this whole thing.
- [08:50]
B
It's a very fair question and one that my parents probably would have hit me over the head with as well. I, you know, I just, I'll admit I, I can be kind of hell bent on some of these goals sometimes, and maybe that's a risky clouding of your own vision, but in this particular case, it was a group decision. We didn't feel comfortable trying too hard the first day to get in. Second day, we were a little more nervy about it. And, and by day three, we were there. You know, we put some trust in the pilots that they know, they don't want to risk their life. They know the conditions better than we do. So if they were willing to go, we were willing to, to pay them to bring us there. I, I will say, though, on, on the footnote of that, and this is the, the kind of serious, tragic, sad part of it, because the weather conditions are so bad, the, the chopper pilot who got us out just three weeks, the exact date of him getting us out, the conditions were bad enough that the helicopter that we were in, he, as the pilot, crashed and everyone on board died. So it is a, it is a sobering kind of reminder of the conditions.
- [09:51]
A
Okay, so you got there and at that point you get these Sherpa guides, right? Can you give me a little backstory on that? Because I didn't know anything about that prior to watching your piece.
- [10:02]
B
Yeah. And there Is a, it's interesting because there's a very distinct difference between Sherpas and trekking guides. And I, I won't bore you with all the detail. You're going to use a Sherpa if you're going to summit, that's certain. But if you're doing some of these other treks, you don't necessarily have a Sherpa with you. We had a guide, but he had also done more than his share of climbing over the years and was really well equipped in knowledge of all this guy named Ganga. And we love Ganga. He was great. And he had all these little tricks of the trade that he taught us along the way and different mindsets because people have different levels of, you know, comfort. And when they're taking on some of these challenges, even if it's just some of these, you know, these rope bridges across or these, you know, suspension bridges that go across these gorges and valleys. And some people are scared and he's got to talk them through. And sometimes you're going up, you know, rock faces that don't require technical climbing but are still pretty dangerous. We had a couple of moments that were, were a little scary and dicey. And so you do have to trust in these people. And so these guides and these, these trekkers and these Sherpas are just amazing what they put themselves through and then how they can impart that wisdom upon you. So you really are finding someone you trust. But again, you're meeting them sometimes just a day or maybe 48 hours before you start. So you're, you're, you're doing a little bit of this blind.
- [11:23]
A
Okay, so you're starting to get into higher elevations. What were the changes like, weather wise? Because I saw a lot of green early on in your piece, and then it got very gray.
- [11:35]
B
And that blows people's minds. They don't realize that you're starting at a point where, you know, the climate ecological zone is quite different obviously, than it might be three days higher into that trek. Yeah, you're dealing with pouring rain. It actually gets a little warm at times. I mean, I think a couple of times I took off my jacket was just in a T shirt. But then you're also dealing with things like leeches because you're at those low levels of altitude where there's a lot of rain and green. And, and those are not fun, I can tell you. And, and so it, it's kind of bizarre that you'll, you'll start off in, in, you know, what's temperate and relatively easy weather, but you know, maybe two days later, three days later, it's a biting, whipping wind with really strong gusts and you're wearing multiple layers. And so you have a lot of things on you at all times. You've always got your rain gear, you've got snow gear, you've got headlamps, different sets of gloves. You have to be pretty prepared.
- [12:36]
A
You said you went in June and that was the off season. So I'm curious, what is the on season?
- [12:41]
B
Well, a lot of summiting is actually done just a month beforehand in May. That's if you want to take advantage of a very small window to make it to the top and cross the Hillary Step. So it's not that far removed on the calendar. But because conditions are so drastic when they change June, you're getting rain and you're getting some warm temps. It wouldn't be safe to try and summit in June because there's so much melt going on. And so you need some of those hard ice structures to climb vertically up. You can't do it up some of these rock facades that are just going to be slushy messes. So you want to go when it's colder, obviously, but you have to really pick and choose your time really carefully. And that's where some of these changes are really taking effect and having a big impact on when people try to summit. You know, there are years ago, I think the average is maybe 11 to 14 days that you consider like the perfect window weather to try and get up there where there's less than 30 mile an hour winds. If you want to summit, that usually is kind of the one to two week span. A few years back they only had a handful of days, maybe three days that were considered the right weather to summit. But then you've had sometimes where it's an entire month and so it's become much more unpredictable.
- [13:57]
A
Did the guides talk to you at all? I'm sure they've been doing this for years. Did they talk to you about like changes they've seen over the years when it comes to climate? And, and even like the avalanches are becoming more prevalent from what I understand they are.
- [14:11]
B
And we saw a handful of avalanches. Nothing that was near enough us that we had to brace for any sort of impact, nothing like that. But we would see them in the distance, you'd hear them and then there'd be the rumble and you would watch all of that snow just come like racing down the mountain and then big clouds as they kind of hit, made impact. And also More rock slides. And so, yes, the guides do talk about that, about how you have to be on the lookout and be prepared for rock slides and avalanches because they are becoming much more prevalent now that you see these temperature changes. And the guides talk about how the Everest that they grew up going up and trekking back and forth from that, it's not the same Everest anymore. And they're saddened by it. They think it's a shame. And they know that, you know, we ultimately, along with other climatological factors, are contributing to it. And it's really a catch 22, if you think about it, because the guides make their living off having people come track, but at the same time, they know that, you know, we're part of the problem.
- [15:19]
A
Yeah, I know. It's funny. Like, your first instinct when you hear, oh, it's getting warmer, is like, oh, it's easier to climb out Everest, right? There's less snow, less conditions. But it's actually the opposite, right, because there's so many more hazards. It's wild to think about.
- [15:34]
B
Very much so. And when you have that movement, when you have that ice and snow and permafrost all shifting, it's just so much more dangerous. And. And it's not just, obviously, Everest is the headline, but, you know, you see that on places like Kilimanjaro. You see that on Villarica and Pukone in Chile. You see that in some of these other really fun, kind of epic places you want to go and see. But they are changing, and that's just the reality. And at some point, you start to see actual physical changes as a result. Base Camp, for example, in the Himalayas, for Everest, that's been moved. Now, some of it's because there's been so much activity in one spot for so long, but they're going to have to shift. There's the Khumbu Icefall. The Khumbu Icefall is that dramatic, beautiful expanse of wildly diversified topographical, like chunks of ice that are in between Base Camp and Camp One. As you start to go up Everest, that's shifting, it's moving. It's becoming much more difficult, much more dangerous. And so Base Camp is probably going to continue to move for all of those trekkers who are going up. And there were somewhat close to, I think, maybe 500 permits last year for climbers to try and summit. But it's not just the climbers. They're all those Sherpas you mentioned. You may have another thousand people on top of that, or 1200 Sherpas. Going up. So it's becoming a very populated, tiny little chunk of land that is going to have to keep moving as the climate changes.
- [17:07]
A
Interesting. Did you see signs of lots of people having been there? I always hear about, like, the trash and the bodies and the poop and all the stuff. Did you see signs of that?
- [17:20]
B
No. You know what is wild is because we were in this, like, kind of odd timing between climbing season and monsoon season. We've almost never saw anyone on this trek. In fact, when you go through these little villages, typically climbers and trekkers stay in these tea houses, they call them. And a lot of them were closed. People weren't around. It seemed like you were going through little ghost towns. But when we got all the way to base camp, that moment that we finally arrived, we were the only people there. There was no one else in sight. There was not a single tent. And so we did expect to see. Because I'd read so much myself, listened to the podcast, watched the videos on YouTube, I expected to see a lot of trash and ditched tents, garbage. There was almost none of it. And that was a bit of a shock to us, but it was also just a fantastic bonus for us that we got to see kind of this pure, unadulterated, clean, nice setting. And a lot of it was because it had been cleaned up as soon as climbing season was over. But. No, but, but as you go up, that's what the stories were. We were hearing from people saying that they saw more bodies as they went up these days as a result of that. That melt.
- [18:34]
A
Yeah, it's wild to think about. But also, you know, like, the dark side of me is really intrigued by it and think, like, wow, these are, like, perfectly preserved bodies. Right? Because, say you hiked in the 20s or 30s and someone died up there, they're frozen in time pretty much. So when they do melt or become unearthed, it's almost like transporting back in time.
- [19:00]
B
Oh, it really is. And the entire thing could be set in any century and you may not know it. I mean, there's so many times where you're walking, trekking, climbing for an entire day, and you don't see anyone or any sign of civilization. So you could be lost in time at any given part of the trek. But there is a pass, the Tukla Pass, which is about halfway between your starting point and base camp, where there are all of these rock formations with plaques or photos for all of the climbers and trekkers who've died over the years. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And it's a pretty stirring thing to see because you come across this ridge and suddenly you see FL flags and, and, and, and, you know, rock buildups and formations and plaques, and there's this eerie kind of feel as clouds are pushing across them. And you're looking at them and you're reading names of these climbers who've died trying to, to pursue their passion. And it does, it does give you pause and you think about what you're doing and you know that that number is not going to stop, that more people, unfortunately, are going to die. The, the season I went, I think it was the deadliest on record at that point was 17 people who died.
- [20:19]
A
And yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize those bodies don't make it back most of the time because how hard?
- [20:24]
B
Yeah, most of the time.
- [20:25]
A
Yeah, hard enough to get your own body up there, let alone somebody else's. As far as the oxygen, did you start to feel that, the pain of elevation with breathing at any point?
- [20:37]
B
At some point, mostly the last couple of days, I had trained pretty hard. Even though we weren't going to summit, I trained pretty hard for it.
- [20:46]
A
How do you train for that in D.C. are you one of those, like, guys with a mask walking around the streets of dc?
- [20:52]
B
I've seen them. I respect for them, as ridiculous as it looks, right? They're like on the treadmill at the.
- [20:57]
A
Gym, running with the mask.
- [20:59]
B
There was a lot of the elliptical training. I did not do the mask, but I would load up my backpack and I would go to Great Falls. I don't know if you know Great Falls. It's in Virginia and it's a national park there. It's not super steep by any means, but there's some good ups and downs. And I would load up my backpack and I'd put on my serious boots just to keep breaking them in and always, always get that tread right. And yeah, I would just up and down it back and forth constantly on the weekends just to kind of get, get ready. And then I have a rowing machine at home and I'd row a ton and just get my cardio up really, as, as best I could. But I didn't feel the altitude really, in an intense way until close to the end. But even the first day, I mean, you get dropped off the helicopter and, you know, you're kind of. It's first day adrenaline. You're excited and you gear up and you start trekking and I mean, it can be 20, 30 minutes in. You realize that your breath is A lot shorter than you thought it would be. And, and you break out the trekking poles a little bit faster than you might think you, you need them. You know, we would have these, we were always, we called them welcome breaks. Whenever this like pack of yaks or horses would be brought by for transport because people are, you know, bringing up everything from propane tanks to, you know, bags of rice and they load them up on, on the livestock and bring them up the, the mountain that way. And whenever you like find yourself on a narrow path, we have to stop because they're all coming through. You actually were grateful. The smile was for multi reasons because now you got to kind of catch your breath. So the altitude's no joke even at the lower portions of the track. I mean anytime you're going above, it's kind of like in Colorado, right? You have all the 14er, 14 or means 14,000ft and up. They're tough. And that's here in the US on the Colorado mountain. You go to the Himalayas where it's already different environment and now you're getting 15, 16, 17, 18,000ft up. It's challenging on the lungs and you know, you're also, you're not sleeping well. You may be taking some high altitude medications, you're eating differently, you're cold all the time. So your body doesn't recover as well after a day's trek as you wanted to because maybe you only slept a few hours and you were cold a lot of the time. You don't, you may not have electricity or plumbing. All the things that kind of affect your ability to kind of recover. So when you get to those higher altitudes it is harder and you are breathing a lot heavier.
- [23:24]
A
Was there anything that really surprised you or you weren't prepared for?
- [23:28]
B
I don't know that anything surprised me except that it's, it is tough sleeping. I, I never get used to it. I think that's because I have some Florida blood in me from, from growing up there. But when you get into some of these colder conditions for climbs, no matter where you are in the world, it's, it's just kind of miserable sleeping. It never really works out. Well, you'll get into your cocoon like, you know that extra sleeve you wear kind of, it's almost like a built in mummy sheet. And you'll get yourself in that while you're already wearing clothes usually. And then you get yourself into your sleeping bag. And we were sleeping in shelter every never had to sleep outside, which was different than doing Kilimanjaro. That was nice. We always had some sort of shelter, but you're still cold. You can still see your breath toward the end, you know, the last few nights. And so if you're not sleeping well, it's just hard to focus. You get headaches from the altitude, nothing. You lose your appetite pretty quickly. Even though you're burning a ton of calories. Sometimes you're just not that hungry. And so the guides have to stay on you to keep eating and forcing you to eat and telling you you need to hydrate and eat as much as possible. You've got to get that caloric intake. That's always the challenge for me. You just. You're not in the mood to eat, but they're saying, eat another plate. More rice, more pasta, more whatever, more protein bars. And you kind of force feed yourself a lot.
- [24:44]
A
Interesting. Do you remember what the temperatures were like at night and during the day?
- [24:48]
B
You know, because we never got that much higher than I think, 19,000ft. I think it wasn't until the last day that you were just below freezing the entire day. A lot of times you would hit some banks of sunshine and you'd get above freezing. Was it too terrible? I don't think we ever got really below zero up at 19,000 just because the time of year. I can't remember the temperatures there, but it was never so brutal that we couldn't handle it. You know, I'd take the hand warmers, I always had some of those, and I'd crunch those up and I'd shove them inside my gloves. On some occasions, you'd have two sets of gloves. You break those up, put those in your hands, throw up, maybe one in your boot, but other than that, if you keep turning, you keep moving, you're fine. At that time of year, it wasn't that brutal. I've done a lot colder.
- [25:33]
A
How long from start to finish did it take you?
- [25:36]
B
Oh, I mean, I think we did everything in nine days, give or take. I can't recall. I'd have to look back at. At the trip in the notes and. And I say that only because you would think you would know immediately, but we kind of lost track of time, oddly, at the end, after we went to base camp. Then the next night we got up at, I don't know, maybe midnight or 1am to go ahead and try and get up to Kalpatar and then see the sun rise from there and get a, a, a better kind of take on Everest. And when we got back down, our plan was to leave immediately that afternoon. We had a helicopter that was going to pick us up at a landing zone not terribly far from there, and we were going to get all the way back to Kathmandu that night. Conditions deteriorated pretty quickly. There was zero visibility. No helicopter would come get us. I had a satellite messenger. So I was messaging back at times with people in Kathmandu getting better weather reports, and they were in touch with a helicopter pilot trying to get to us. And after the first day, no one would come. So we kind of sat there staring at each other. And to stay warm, we're burning yak dung in a fire.
- [26:43]
A
How'd that smell?
- [26:44]
B
Just huddled around that. Which, by the way, is it. I know it's a necessity, but it's also a terrible thing because you can get this thing called the dung lung, which I got, which is just like the most miserable form of bronchitis, because you're breathing in all the smoke from. From yak poop, which is really unpleasant.
- [27:01]
A
And it just all in your lungs.
- [27:03]
B
Oh, it takes a total toll on your lungs. I came back and my doctor was like, what did you do to yourself? So it was a little miserable. I ended up with a cough that literally lasted six months as a result.
- [27:16]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [27:17]
B
Yeah. No fun. But. But we kind of like, we spent one of these entire weird days where you're just staring at nothing to do. You've talked about everything you ever want to talk about for the last week and a half. The next day, again, no one would come get us, and we had to take a second day vote of what he wanted to do. And because we had crossed what was a little bit of a dicey patch of ice where I hit a rock slide and I. I lost it and fell a little bit. No one really wanted to go back across the exact same way we came. So there were some people in the group that were kind of holding out, waiting for a helicopter to come get us because they didn't want to cross that area. It was. It was a bit of a couple of. Of of the. The guys. Porters had to jump out and grab me so I didn't slide all the way down. So no one wanted to really do that again. I was all for going back because I just didn't want to waste another day kind of laying around looking at each other. We waited another day. Finally, everyone voted. Yeah, let's get the heck out of here. And. And that's when we kind of made this bizarre mad dash to try and find an area where a helicopter could land and pick us up and get us Out. And so the faster members of the group, myself and this other couple, we loaded up, and we started kind of jogging as quickly as we could away from camp and as far south as we could. And the rest would catch up to us, but we would just keep going and get to another landing zone. I would message to Kathmandu and say, can you get us here? And they'd say, nope. Pilot says no. And then we'd go to the next one. They'd say, race ahead to the next spot. And we'd go another mile or so, and we were hauling it. We were, like, really busting it, trying to find some clear patch where the clouds would, you know, break up just enough that a helicopter could land and they couldn't. And we did it for, I don't know, maybe four or five different stops. I think in the end, we probably went a good five, six miles of running in those conditions. I had someone else's backpack on my front, mine on my back. And eventually we got to a spot where helicopter could land and perch itself just on the very edge of a cliff. The tail of it was hanging off, and we had to run and get in. And they raced us out of there and got back to get the second group because we couldn't all fit in one helicopter and get them back. So it was this bizarre, like, Amazing Race, but serious version escape from. From our. Our base camp.
- [29:35]
A
It's like a movie I'm picturing. Did you feel like the final scene of Jurassic park where they're, like, flying away in the helicopter, looking at what they left behind?
- [29:43]
B
There were a lot of. Yeah, there were a lot of, like, hugs at the end. It was kind of funny because we. We did feel like we were in this race against time because we'd heard these horror stories of people who get trapped up there for a week or so if they aren't willing to try and trek out. And because some people in the group didn't want to, I'm thinking, are we really going to be stuck up here for a week? Like, is there a chance I can go. Go on my own? Because you didn't want that. And the place that we were stuck in is translated to the word. It's a gork, Shep. But it translates to raven dead, because nothing lives up there. So it's kind of this ominous feel anyway. And we're like, let's get out of here.
- [30:17]
A
Sounds hospitable.
- [30:18]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, it literally was this race. They were, like, doing this dramatic wave, like, come get in the chopper. Hurry. And you're running with two backpacks and hopping in. And then we finally get to that airport and everyone else got a chopper back. There were no seats left. So I was by myself with the guide and we're like, are we stuck here for a day or two? We don't know if another chopper's coming to evac people. And eventually a chopper came and they had one seat left and they said, you can have it. So I hopped on, I got out of there and got back to Kathmandu. So it was obviously all fine, but a little dramatic for our departure and, you know, trekking through conditions where it's just pure clouds and you can maybe see 20, 30ft in front of you. And I took some photos because I had, you know, kind of like frost forming all over my face and my beard. And it was, it was, it was a little dramatic.
- [31:10]
A
I mean, hearing this is dramatic. But you also, you recorded all this and you shot a package for wjla. Did you do that entire thing on your phone?
- [31:19]
B
I did, yeah. I shot everything on my phone. And again, there's no guarantee anyone's going to air it. But I, I knew I wanted to record it anyway just to kind of put together a story, a documentation of it. So I, yeah, I shot everything on an iPhone 11 Pro Max. And every once in a while I'd have someone else hold the phone so they'd get a shot of me going across a, a bridge or, you know, up some ridge or something like that. And I had a tiny little foot high tripod that I'd set on a rock sometimes and I'd run ahead, set it, run back to the group, and then we'd all go through. But yeah, I just recorded it all on my own.
- [31:54]
A
You did a standup at one point and it was clearly very windy, but your audio is kind of impeccable, which. And I use this AI audio enhancer. And I'm curious if that's what you did with that stand up.
- [32:07]
B
My editor, Lisa Liscoe, who's just the best, and she just retired. Congratulations to her. She may have because she had just in the past year started using one of those AI, you know, like audio cleaning apps there. But, but yeah, because the wind is, is super severe and I didn't have a mic on me and I was trying to stand relatively close to the camera. But yeah, I'm sure that there was some, some good digital magic going on to make it sound better on tv.
- [32:33]
A
Yeah, it was, was, we heard you loud and clear, so there had to be something people can go on YouTube and watch this, right? It's a great, it's like a seven minute mini movie and they can see this adventure from start to finish.
- [32:45]
B
Yeah, I love. If they, if they want to check it out, it's on my YouTube page. Just search for Scott Thuman and you'll see my page there and it's, it's pinned and yeah, it's, it's a great. If you don't ever want to make the trek, it's a great way to experience it. If you're going to make the track, it might give you some pro tips like rest is rust and be bold, start cold. That's the other one because you're going to warm up, you get up in the morning, you're freezing, you want to throw on every layer. And Ganga would always say, be bold, start cold. And so, yeah, you don't need that much because before you know it, you're chugging and you're out of breath anyway. So you could always add layers. Layer. But yeah, I encourage people to take a look at it. It's, I think, hopefully an insightful little version as to what it takes to get to base camp and beyond.
- [33:29]
A
Well, I'm going to talk to a scientist that has been studying the glaciers on Everest for years and they're doing a lot of studies as far as climate change. Is there any questions you would have, like unanswered questions that maybe you or your group had that you were curious about just being up there and visually seeing things?
- [33:45]
B
I'd be curious to see or to learn what really is the, the, you know, genuine feel for how much longer people are going to be able to do this? Because there is a concern that summiting is good. That window is going to just continue to narrow or become so dangerous that the winds are going to be so unpredictable that what you're going to have is if the window is only a few days, all those people who've been waiting at Camp 3 or 4 or 5 to make their move are all going to pile up on the Hillary Step like we saw a few years back, and people are going to literally run out of oxygen while they're standing in line to summit that last few hundred meters. How many more years can that happen and how many more years before you maybe have some shutdown of permitting or at least a limitation of it that Everest becomes even more elusive for people?
- [34:40]
A
Yeah, interesting. What's next for you? What's the next adventure? I know you're married now, so maybe are you getting cut off?
- [34:47]
B
That is a Very good question. You know, I, I made a, a, a half hearted promise to my wife that I'm going to be much more careful in the future and that that is true. I will, I don't think I'll be summiting. I figured I'd go back eventually to summit. I don't think she would let me. And frankly I have more to care about these days so my risk factor is probably less palatable because I, I have more than I want to stay here for and, and I'm less willing to put myself in terrible situations. But you know, I've done the Amazon, I've gone running with the bulls, I've, I've done some mountains, I've done some, some crazy adventures around the world. Still figuring out what the next one is that will also get wife approval.
- [35:31]
A
Personal question. You don't have to answer. I have interviewed people, survivors of natural disasters who have kind of this complex after they survive something that maybe they didn't think they were going to where they risk their lives and they're adventure seekers and you know, thrill seekers. Kind of like I'm picturing you are, was there a trauma at all in your childhood that you survived or earlier years that you survived that has led you to this kind of lifestyle?
- [35:57]
B
There, there isn't, there's no trauma that I've ever survived. But I've always had a desire to challenge myself in a way that on paper would seem scary. So last thing they'll say, for example, like, like reporting wise. When the war in Iraq broke out, I had, leading up to the war I had covered a lot of military training. I was at Fort Stewart, I was at Parris Island, I was a lot of places where the military was getting ready and prepping for the war. And I had basically found my way in with the third id they were going to bring me on the invasion into Iraq in the fall of 03. And then my company at the time said, no, we're not going to let you go. And so after a couple of asks and denials, I eventually just said, okay, well I've got three weeks vacation left, see you later. And I got a helmet and a small camera and a bulletproof vest and I paid my way into Iraq and I went to Jordan and I paid someone to drive me across the desert and all the way into Baghdad and freelanced over there by myself. And I always had this desire to kind of push to do things when people say no, you shouldn't or I'm not going to let you. And so that kind of then I don't know, it transformed into, well, there's a big mountain sea if you can get on top of it. And there's Piranha Lake in the Amazon. Swim through it. Some of it sounds much dumber when I say it out loud than it felt in my head. Head run with the bulls. I mean, you know, some of it is, is foolhardy. But I'm also not ridiculous. I mean, I think about these things ahead of time and how I can do it in the safest manner and, and, and plot it out. I'm, I don't have a death wish. I'm not like that. But I don't know. I've always just the adrenaline rush, the endorphins, pushing myself, challenging myself. It's always kind of been part of my DNA, I think.
- [37:59]
A
Well, you're, you're still here. So you're doing something right.
- [38:02]
B
Something. Yeah.
- [38:04]
A
Scott Thieman, thank you so much for your time and sharing your story today.
- [38:08]
B
My pleasure. Anytime.
- [38:13]
A
Off the Radar is a production of the National Weather Desk. Make sure you're following the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes publish every Tuesday. If you know someone that's an adventure seeker or interested in Mount Everest or climate change, please please share this episode with them. We'd also love you to rate and review us on Apple Podcast and Spotify. Thank you to Scott Thuman for sharing his story today. Stay tuned for part two in this series where I'll be talking with glaciologist Duncan Quincy, who is actively studying the changes to the Kumbu Glacier. Also, thank you to Sinclair Broadcast Group and the National Weather Desk for their ongoing support of the show. And as always, thank you to my associate producer, Brian Petrus for his help on this and all the episodes. I'm meteorologist Emily Gracie. Make it a great day.