Hurricane Hunters: NOAA's Laboratories in the Sky

Summary

Podcast Summary: Off the Radar – "Hurricane Hunters: NOAA's Laboratories in the Sky"

Released on October 8, 2024, by The National Weather Desk, "Off the Radar" is hosted by Meteorologist Emily Gracey. In this episode, Gracey delves into the exhilarating and critical world of NOAA’s Hurricane Hunters—aviators who brave the fiercest storms to gather invaluable data. Through in-depth interviews with Flight Engineer Daniel Tyson and Public Affairs Specialist Jonathan Shannon, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the Hurricane Hunters' history, operations, challenges, and future innovations.

---

1. Setting the Stage: The Legacy of Hurricane Carla

The episode opens with a historical recount of Hurricane Carla, a formidable Category 4 hurricane that struck Texas in September 1961. Gracey sets the context by highlighting Carla's impact and the pioneering efforts of meteorologists at the Weather Bureau who monitored the storm using the then-new network of weather radars.

Notable Quote:

Emily Gracie [00:29]: "It made landfall as a Category 4 hurricane with winds of 145 mph and spawned 26 tornadoes as it moved inland."

Carla's significance lies not only in its destructive power but also in the effective communication and evacuation strategies that minimized loss of life, showcasing the critical role of timely weather warnings.

---

2. Interview with Flight Engineer Daniel Tyson

A. Overview of Daniel Tyson's Role Daniel Tyson, described as "the Olivia Pope of eyewall penetrations," shares his experiences flying into hurricanes. With over a decade of experience as a flight engineer and two years with NOAA, Tyson provides firsthand insights into the intense and highly coordinated missions.

B. The Recent Mission: Hurricane Helene Tyson recounts the recent mission into Hurricane Helene, addressing rumors and viral videos depicting the crew seemingly stuck within the hurricane's eye.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Tyson [11:58]: "Helene had a massive eye. I think it was like 20 plus miles long. So we were able to actually do some circles in there."

He explains that the crew's deliberate decision to circle within the eye was a strategic move to provide a much-needed break during prolonged turbulence, debunking rumors of the plane being stranded.

C. The Intensity of Eye Wall Penetrations Tyson reflects on some of the most intense missions of his career, ranking Hurricane Ian and Hurricane Lee as top experiences due to their severe turbulence and powerful dynamics.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Tyson [13:23]: "Hurricane Ian... was a good one, huh? And then... Hurricane Lee last year when it was a Cat five in the middle of the Atlantic."

D. Emotional and Physical Challenges Addressing the emotional toll, Tyson emphasizes the importance of maintaining composure to ensure the safety of the crew and the success of the mission.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Tyson [15:23]: "It's not really a dangerous situation. And the reason why I could say that is because we've trained countless amount of hours outside of the flight station for this exact scenario."

E. Aircraft Maintenance and Durability Tyson discusses the longevity and maintenance of the NOAA Hurricane Hunter aircraft, highlighting their robust design and the meticulous care they receive to withstand hurricane forces.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Tyson [19:02]: "They're spotless at all times or at least try to be after a storm."

F. The Human Element: Teamwork and Camaraderie He underscores the strong team dynamics and the shared passion among crew members, fostering a supportive and resilient environment essential for handling the rigors of hurricane hunting.

---

3. Interview with Jonathan Shannon

A. The Origins and Evolution of Hurricane Hunters Jonathan Shannon provides a historical overview of the Hurricane Hunters program, tracing its roots back to military reconnaissance missions during World War II and its evolution into the NOAA-operated missions established in 1966.

Notable Quote:

Jonathan Shannon [22:09]: "We at NOAA have been flying this mission before we were NOAA... We've been flying those aircraft into storms for NOAA 42 since 1976 and NOAA 43 Miss Piggy since 1977."

B. Technological Advancements: Satellites and Dropsons Shannon highlights the symbiotic relationship between satellite technology and in-situ data collection by Hurricane Hunters. He elaborates on the development of smaller, more efficient dropsons—sensor-laden packages dropped into storms to gather granular atmospheric data.

Notable Quote:

Jonathan Shannon [25:22]: "We've moved to what we call the minison, which is basically the size of a paper towel roll... We're looking to have more granularity in that regard as well."

C. Future of Hurricane Hunting: New Aircraft and Innovations Discussing the future, Shannon reveals plans for introducing new aircraft models, such as the C130J, poised to replace the aging P3s. These advancements promise enhanced data collection capabilities and the integration of automated systems to launch dropsons more efficiently.

Notable Quote:

Jonathan Shannon [30:43]: "We're expanding our instrumentation set... It's going to be very exciting once we get these C130Js in, to see the amount and different types of data they're able to collect."

D. Safety and Crew Dynamics Addressing concerns about the safety of flying into hurricanes, Shannon reassures listeners by emphasizing the rigorous training and professional coordination that ensure mission safety.

Notable Quote:

Jonathan Shannon [34:28]: "We have a very good safety record and we do that intentionally... to make it as boring as possible as you can be in flying into a hurricane."

E. Broader Mission Scope Beyond hurricane tracking, Shannon explains how Hurricane Hunters contribute to various meteorological and environmental studies, including winter storms and atmospheric rivers, underscoring the versatility and importance of their missions.

---

4. Concluding Insights

Gracey wraps up the episode by acknowledging the ongoing impact of Hurricane Helene and the unwavering dedication of NOAA Hurricane Hunters. She underscores the critical role these aviators play in safeguarding lives through precise data collection and timely weather forecasting.

Notable Quote:

Emily Gracie [04:17]: "While today's show is exciting and fun, I do want to acknowledge the tragedy that Hurricane Helene has caused for portions of the Southeast."

The episode serves as a tribute to the bravery and expertise of the Hurricane Hunters, illustrating how their missions are pivotal in advancing meteorological science and enhancing public safety.

---

Key Takeaways

• Historical Significance: NOAA Hurricane Hunters have a rich history dating back to the 1960s, evolving with technological advancements to become indispensable in hurricane forecasting and research.

• Operational Excellence: The meticulous planning, rigorous training, and robust maintenance protocols ensure the safety and effectiveness of missions, even in the most severe storms.

• Innovative Technologies: The introduction of dropsons and upcoming aircraft like the C130J signify ongoing efforts to enhance data collection capabilities, providing deeper insights into storm dynamics.

• Teamwork and Resilience: Strong team dynamics and professional coordination are crucial in managing the challenges posed by hurricane missions, fostering a supportive environment for the crew.

• Future Prospects: NOAA is committed to maintaining and advancing the Hurricane Hunters program, with plans to integrate new technologies and expand mission scopes to address diverse meteorological phenomena.

---

For listeners seeking to support hurricane-affected communities, Gracey mentions fundraising efforts through Sinclair Broadcast Group in collaboration with the Salvation Army. She also encourages following the podcast on various platforms and exploring additional episodes for more insights into hurricane hunting.

Transcript

[Emily Gracie]

In September of 1961, Hurricane Carla was approaching the coastline of Texas. Meteorologists at the weather bureau were watching it on a new network of weather radars.

[Daniel Tyson]

The center of Carla moved inland near the Port O'Connor Port Lavaca area on September 11th. As the eye moved over land, direct live TV and radio broadcasts were made from the radar room at Galveston to warn the people in certain areas that the eye was passing over them and to remain indoors.

[Emily Gracie]

It made landfall as a Category 4 hurricane with winds of 145 mph and spawned 26 tornadoes as it moved inland.

[Daniel Tyson]

The loss of life directly attributed to Carla was amazingly low. Reports indicate 46 deaths occurred, approximately half of which were attributed to the tornadoes associated with Carla. Damage estimates total over $300 million.

[Emily Gracie]

There was a 10 foot storm surge and 17 inches of rain fell along the Texas coast. Carla was one of the most intense hurricanes to ever hit the United States.

[Daniel Tyson]

Although this storm was severe, loss of life was held to a minimum by timely warnings issued by the weather Bureau and evacuation advice issued by local public safety officials.

[Emily Gracie]

So how did people have time to evacuate? How did emergency officials know a major hurricane was coming days in advance?

[Daniel Tyson]

Carla was to cause the greatest mass exodus of persons from danger areas that has ever occurred. It is estimated that 500,000 persons sought safety in inland areas.

[Emily Gracie]

Hurricane Carla was the first hurricane to be monitored from start to finish by researchers in the air. In the week leading up to landfall, the Weather Bureau deployed several types of aircraft into the storm, measuring wind speed and monitoring movement. Over the decades, research and technology have come a long way. But the hurricane hunters at the national oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or noaa, still fly aircraft into active hurricanes to monitor the storms and collect data that saves countless lives each year. Today we're going off the radar and into the cockpit with the NOAA hurricane hunters. We'll be talking to flight engineer Daniel Tyson. Dan is the Olivia Pope of eyewall penetrations. If there's a problem, he's gonna fix it. During their last flight mission through Hurricane Helene, they were making their second pass through the eye wall and then didn't come back out right away. This prompted Internet rumors that the plane was stuck in the eye. Dan addresses those rumors and we discussed the viral video of the bumpy flight and his reaction once they made it through the eyewall. Then we'll hear from Jonathan Shannon from Noah about the history of the hurricane hunters, how the program got started, the current aircraft, and the news of new planes that will be piloted by the next generation of hurricane hunters. So strap in because we are taking flight into the past, present and future of these laboratories in the sky. I'm meteorologist Emily Gracey and you're listening to off the Radar, a production of the National Weather Desk. On the show, we dig deep into topics about weather, climate, the oceans, space, and much more. Our goal is to help you better understand the weather and to love it as much as we do.

[Jonathan Shannon]

Hey prime members, have you heard? You can listen to your favorite podcasts.

[Emily Gracie]

Ad free Good news With Amazon Music.

[Jonathan Shannon]

You have access to the largest catalog.

[Emily Gracie]

Of ad free top podcasts included with your prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to Amazon.com adfreepodcast that's Amazon.com ad free podcast to catch up on the latest episodes without.

[Jonathan Shannon]

The ads why get all your holiday decorations delivered through Instacart? Because maybe you only bought two wreaths but have 12 windows. Or maybe your toddler got very eager with the Advent calendar. Or maybe the inflatable snowman didn't make it through the snowstorm. Or maybe the twinkle lights aren't twinkling. Whatever the reason, this season Instacart's here for hosts and their whole holiday haul. Get decorations from the Home Depot, CVS and more through Instacart and enjoy free delivery on your first three orders, service fees and supply.

[Emily Gracie]

Hi everyone, Emily Gracie here. While today's show is exciting and fun, I do want to acknowledge the tragedy that Hurricane Helene has caused for portions of the Southeast, namely western North Carolina. I went to college in Asheville, North Carolina. My heart breaks for this beautiful town. Our sister station, wlos, has been working their butts off to keep people informed and safe and I want to give a huge shout out to our meteorologists there, Jason Boyer and Megan Dehaney, who have been working nonstop while also managing the safety of their own homes and families. Today's episode is not meant to ignore the devastation. In time, we will cover it. For now, I want to share the work and the bravery that hurricane hunters put into every single storm. Their jobs are fascinating. So today let's look to the past and future of hurricane forecasting with some optimism. You may remember the video of the hurricane hunter going through the eye wall where it's crazy turbulent in the video and then the guy in the train conductor hat in the middle turns around with a relieved smile on his face. You can find the video on our YouTube channel. If you haven't seen it yet, just search the National Weather desk. So that guy is flight engineer Daniel Tyson, and I caught up with him after he returned from that mission. Take a listen. All right, Dan, let's talk about Helene. This has been literally a wild ride here over the past week or so. Can we talk about the timeline here of when you guys and NOAA hurricane hunters started flying into Helene and. And how many missions you actually were on?

[Daniel Tyson]

Yeah, I believe we started flying either third Tuesday or Wednesday of that week. And I think we were in there maybe four to five times. It's a. It's a lot going on. We're doing 24 hour ops. So it was. The timelines are a bit messy because some days you just wake up and you have no idea what day it is.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay, so tell me about your role as a hurricane hunter, because there's a lot of different roles there on the plane.

[Daniel Tyson]

Yeah. So I am a P3 flight engineer. Essentially, if you think about it as terms of science and safety of flight, I am fully maxed out on the safety of flight aspect of it. My roles and responsibility include normal operations of the aircraft along with emergency procedures. And if anything does happen, everyone kind of looks at me to try to figure out what are we going to do next. Right. So what are. What are the different systems that we could either shut down or restart or what bypasses can we have for that malfunction? So I care solely on safety of flight for the aircraft and the crew.

[Emily Gracie]

So take me through that final flight that you were on, the one that kind of sparked some rumors too. And then the video was taken in. Can you tell me about that day and what you guys were doing that particular day?

[Daniel Tyson]

Yeah, so we woke up like any other day. Essentially. We got ready for the mission. We went to get some Texas barbecue because we're in Texas and we're from Florida, so we're always going to go get some barbecue as a crew.

[Emily Gracie]

Brisket, I assume?

[Daniel Tyson]

Oh, yeah, we had some brisket. It was great. So we ended up just getting ready for the day for that. We start Pre flight around 12 o'clock. Plane was ready to go by 2, got off deck, took off. Everything's normal, everything's fine. This flight was a little bit different being that we had so many people on it. We normally don't carry 20 plus people on our plane, so that was a little abnormal. The good thing is we did have two navigators that were flying with us. So the reason why the video was recorded, I had one of the navigators in the jump seat, if you will. It was a circuit breaker panel seat that we have there. That's kind of like a That's usually where the second FE will sit. Second flight engineer will sit there to kind of back up the first flight engineer while we're going through storm. But William Weisinger was in the back test of my other flight engineer, so he gave up his seat. So Andrew Utama, Lieutenant Commander Andrew Utama could actually fly or sit up there. So that was pretty cool. So me looking back, I was checking on him to see like, hey, you're good, because they're normally not up there. So it was a fun experience. Experience. I didn't realize he was going to be recording the whole time, though.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay, so why so many people on the flight? Was there media on the flight?

[Daniel Tyson]

We. I believe we did have media on this flight. Just a local station and then just a lot of scientists. We were dropping some uas, some drones. So we had a lot of personnel for that, because that's a big deal, dropping drones into a middle of a storm. So there was about five people for that.

[Emily Gracie]

How long have you been doing this?

[Daniel Tyson]

So I've been flying with NOAA for two years now. This is my third season with them. But I've been a flight engineer for about 11 years. So I joined the Navy back in 2011, had a great experience, did my my time and decided to get out. And I got a phone call from a couple of pilots here at NOAA saying, come, come fly.

[Emily Gracie]

So what's the experience been like so far?

[Daniel Tyson]

It's been absolutely amazing. This place, just this working environment is awesome to be a part of. You know, you're. You actually feel like you're part of a team. You care about your coworkers, which is strange. You know, coming from the Navy, it's like, all right. Some people call it trauma bonding, but it's great. But, yeah, it's just a great group of people to work with. You have a great mission, and everyone actually cares about their work. And I was actually describing this the other day. We had one of our scientists on there, that's one of our senior scientists and actually like a lead scientist for hurricane research. And just seeing him go out there, this is like his billionth flight, and he's still taking pictures of the plane, still taking pictures of outside, and, you know, still has that same exact joy that I still have when I go out to the plane. I'm constantly taking pictures. Because you have so much pride in the work that you do here.

[Emily Gracie]

People can't get enough of it. Every time you guys take videos and take pictures, like, it's just such an interesting career that you have that. The rest of the world is very intrigued by it. Um, okay, so let's talk about the video. Tell me what kind of you were going through at that point when the video was taken and what you were doing there in the cockpit.

[Daniel Tyson]

So when we're going through the storm environment, since there is a lot going on, we try to divvy up the responsibilities of the flight station between the three of us. So David Keith on controls, and he's focusing on keeping the aircraft straight and level as much as possible, dealing with those side winds. Uh, Chris Wood, who's the co pilot at that point, is backing him up, making sure he's on airspeed, on track, on altitude, and we're, we're flying the right way. And then my job is to just maintain airspeed at 210 knots. So I'm somewhere in between 202 20. That's my, the range. So if I'm faster than 2 20, I pull back on the power levers. Uh, I'll announce that to David. David would then pull up the aircraft to nose it up to try to slow us down. If we're too slow and I have max power set and we're still not speeding up, then David will nose down the aircraft to help us increase speed. So we're trying to maintain that 2:10 at all times. It's a lot of work. As you can see in the video, we're constantly just fully going firewall to flight idle nonstop. And you can't hear it in the video, but we're all talking on internal communication systems, or ICS the entire time.

[Emily Gracie]

How many times did you go through that eye wall during that mission?

[Daniel Tyson]

We did four times. Four passes. The video was the second pass, which was the one where we delayed in the eye wall to figure out what's going on.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay, so that sparked some rumors, which I kind of missed out on when this was happening online. You say delayed in the eye wall, then all of a sudden on the Internet, people are saying the hurricane hunters are stuck in the eye of Hurricane Helene. So is that normal to delay like that? Tell me what happened there.

[Daniel Tyson]

So normally we're in and out of the eye just due to the eye size. Sometimes it's a smaller eye. We don't have the availability of being able to do circles in the eye. Helene had a massive eye. I think it was like 20 plus miles long. So we were able to actually do some circles in there. And it is common for us to circle in the eye, the eye itself. And the reason we do that is one to give the crew a break. Because going through the eye wall or just going through the storm in general, you have condition five set, which means everyone's strapped in, everyone can't move from their seats. We're, we're staying in place while we're going through the severe turbulence. So that could be anywhere from five minutes to an hour and a half to two hours that I've seen it. So we tend to circle up in the eye just to give people that break. Go use the restroom, go get some food, snacks. So it's not uncommon for us to actually circle in the eye.

[Emily Gracie]

Interesting. What's that like when you're circling in the eye, Are you just like in awe of what you're looking at around you?

[Daniel Tyson]

Yeah, absolutely. That's when everyone's coming up, phones are out. Everywhere GoPros are going, we're taking videos, pictures. It's just, it's something that no matter how nice the photo is, it's never going to give it true justice of how beautiful it is.

[Emily Gracie]

You wrote when you posted that video that this is like top three of like the intense eye wall penetration that you've done in your career. So I'm curious what the other ones are and what it felt like to actually be in that situation.

[Daniel Tyson]

My number one hands down was Hurricane Ian. Ian was actually in my first season as being a flight engineer for noaa, so I didn't have anything to really reference it. The only way I was even, even able to realize that Ian was a strong storm or that turbulence was severe is when I look back at the more senior people and they were very white faced ghosts, like shaking. And so I was like, oh, okay. So that was a good one, huh? And then is that the one where.

[Emily Gracie]

Nick Underwood took the video of like beds falling out of the back? Yeah. Okay.

[Daniel Tyson]

Yes, that's, that's the Nick underwear video one. Yes. That, that was a. Was definitely up there. A few people did not return to fly for no after that. But needless to say, so that, that was definitely my top. This was right up there with Ian. I would say it's number two, but just by barely a little bit. Um, because they're so hard to, to really determine what they're like. Cause they're so far apart from each other. But my other one that would be really severe was a Hurricane Lee last year when it was a Cat five in the middle of the Atlantic. Um, we were the first ones to go into it and it was, it was definitely a Cat 5.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay. So I'm curious. I know that research has been done about turbulence on the aircraft when it's flying through the hurricane and how really the, the pilots, anybody in the cockpit is like feeling the worst of the turbulence. Is that, do you think that's true? Do you concur with that research?

[Daniel Tyson]

Um, actually no, I don't concur with.

[Emily Gracie]

You think the worst spot is.

[Daniel Tyson]

The worst spot on the plane, hands down, is the back of the plane. So if you're anywhere in the back, you're dealing with some severe, severe turbulence. The middle of the plane is the nicest and in the front you get some, you get a lot of the bumps too, but by far the back is the worst.

[Emily Gracie]

Purely selfish question. As somebody who has severe turbulence fear, I'm curious what it's like, you know, emotionally in the front of the plane, in the cockpit when you're going through this. Are you guys scared? Is this a scary situation? Is it a dangerous situation?

[Daniel Tyson]

It's not really a dangerous situation. And the reason why I could say that is because we've trained countless amount of hours outside of the flight station for, for this exact scenario. So with our training, our, our crew resource management, our reliance on teamwork, it's really not as dangerous as people think just because we have so much practice doing it.

[Emily Gracie]

I can hear it over and over again, but it's still. You have a fear. You have a fear. Okay, so I want to go back to the video. I love the part where you kind of turn around and smile and the look is kind of like woo. Like that was interesting. So were you, were you glad like that that was over. What's is it like an adrenaline rush? What was the feel kind of came through the eye wall at that point and turned around and had that smile.

[Daniel Tyson]

So you're going through the eye wall, you're so focused, you're so task saturated with that one thing of just maintaining airspeed that you don't really get a lot of chance to show your emotions or say anything really crazy. There was some things said on ICS though that were good that they did not get recorded. Uh, but it was, it was definitely one of those sub, sub real feelings that you're, you're going through. I look back to check on our nav, Lieutenant Commander Tama and to like actually see how he's doing. But like that look, that is a general look of like holy crap. Like that was, that was good. That was a good bump or a good series at least, which is abnormal for me because I'm usually very straight Faced in the flight station for situations like that. Because if I start panicking or I start showing fear, everyone starts freaking out. Right. So as I said, as a flight engineer, I'm there for all the emergencies. So when something goes wrong, if. If I start panicking, they start panicking. So I'm usually very level headed and mindful, but that was just a general reaction that I couldn't control. That was just like, dang.

[Emily Gracie]

Do you always wear the engineer hat?

[Daniel Tyson]

I try to. So I got that engineer hat when I was. I actually have it with me right now.

[Emily Gracie]

But yeah, you could have worn it for the interview.

[Daniel Tyson]

I could put it on if you want. I'll put it on.

[Jonathan Shannon]

Yeah.

[Emily Gracie]

Something tells me this is like your signature look.

[Daniel Tyson]

It is. There's a few of us, but here's the train conductor hat.

[Emily Gracie]

Nice.

[Daniel Tyson]

But yeah. So I got this hat when I got qualified as a flight engineer in the Navy back in 2013. And I. I try to wear it every single chance I get. Sometimes I wear a different hat because people ask me to wear it. So I'll wear the hat through the store when I'll give it to them as a gift. So. But typically this is my go to standard hat while I'm flying.

[Emily Gracie]

Oh yeah. That's interesting. You could wear a different one every storm and then you could probably sell it on ebay. Like sign. Put the stats in there and sign it on ebay.

[Daniel Tyson]

I wish. It's a good side hustle.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay, so I want to talk about the plane itself because these planes are not new. They're quite old. So tell me about kind of the history here of the NOAA hurricane hunter aircraft.

[Daniel Tyson]

So we originally got the planes back in 1975. Took about a year of mons to get them up to hurricane status or ready to fly into hurricanes. So I think they fought their first storm in 76, 77 time frame. So they're pretty old aircraft in general, but they're so well maintained by our maintenance staff that they're. They're like brand new. So it's. It's actually quite comical because you get a lot of people that dealt with P3s in the Navy and overseas, and they'll come check out our facilities and our planes. And it's. They're just blown away at how well maintained these aircraft are kept. Like there's any grease on it, it's gone.

[Emily Gracie]

They.

[Daniel Tyson]

They're spotless at all times or at least try to be after a storm. It's a little bit rough right now. If they'll show you the hangar, they're getting torn apart. Just getting ready for the next series that's could be coming up.

[Emily Gracie]

What kind of damage do they sustain in hurricanes?

[Daniel Tyson]

So a lot of it is from the rain itself. Actually, the rain's traveling so fast that it's tearing through some of the metal parts of the prop blades. So they'll have to refile down the prop blades. Quite often we try to put tape, it's just thick 3m tape on the leading edges. So all the leading edge surfaces, and that gets destroyed. And the reason why I put that tape there is because if the tape wasn't there, then our leading edges, the metal will be destroyed. So try to mitigate as much damage as possible. But a couple of spinners are getting replaced because of the damages that we're sustain. We check everything. This. This plane is constantly being inspected over and over again by multiple sets of eyes.

[Emily Gracie]

Yeah, it's gonna be. It's like, goes both directions where it's comforting in the way that they've been doing the same thing for 50 years and they've been. They've stood the test of time. But then also, I can imagine as a member of the media, if I walked up to get on the plane and I saw tape, I'd probably be like, ugh.

[Jonathan Shannon]

It.

[Daniel Tyson]

It's. It looks good. It looks good. It's. It's a. It's like more of a cushion tape.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay, you guys name your two hurricane hunters, right? What are their names?

[Daniel Tyson]

So we have. We have three planes that have names right now. We have Kermit, Miss Piggy, and gonzo as our G4. The way it came about was when we first got our original two aircraft, we had one that was really good and one that was constantly leaking or dirty. And they kept calling it the Pig, and the Pig eventually escalated to Miss Piggy. And they're like, well, if we have Miss Piggy, we might as well have Kermit. So we have Kermit and Miss Piggy. And then we reached out to Jim Henson, who's the creator of the Muppets. He loved the idea. He actually drew up the original artwork for it. So those are his original designs that are on the planes. And that's how they've been. And then we got. The G4 has a weird radar nose looking feature on the plane. So they're like, that's a weird nose. That's Gonzo. So that's how they all came about with their names.

[Emily Gracie]

Oh, funny. I never knew that full story. That's awesome. Cool. Dan, are you going to fly again or were you deterred by this mission?

[Daniel Tyson]

Oh, I'll be up in there.

[Emily Gracie]

Thank you for all that you do. And thank you to everyone over there at noaa. Please, please tell them we appreciate it.

[Daniel Tyson]

We'll do. Thank you for your support.

[Emily Gracie]

Next up, I'm talking to Jonathan Shannon, public affairs for the NOAA Hurricane Hunters. He has some interesting stories about the first people to fly into hurricanes and some exciting news about a new fleet of planes coming in the next few years. Jonathan and Shannon, let's talk about hurricane hunters. It's been quite a season so far, especially the past couple of weeks, but I want to hear about the history of the hurricane hunters. People are fascinated with the fact that there are people flying into Category five hurricanes. So take me back to the very beginning of how this whole program got started and when we first started flying into hurricanes.

[Jonathan Shannon]

So for the military, it started with a bar bet. It was Lt. Col. Duckworth down in Galveston, Texas. He took a training aircraft up from there, came back, grabbed a meteorologist because it was a trainer, and they went in and started sampling some of the different parts of the storm. Then they started doing it with the Navy Typhoon Warning Squadrons during World War II, as well as the Air Force Weather squadrons, too. Today we have one Air Force Reserve Hurricane Hunter Squadron, the 53rd Weather Reconnaissance Squadron based in Biloxi, Mississippi. They fly C130Js into the storm and gather some of the operational reconnaissance data for the National Hurricane Center. We at NOAA have been flying this mission before we were noaa. So we started working with what is Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratories, Hurricane Research Division. From there, it started as the Office of aircraft operations within NOAA, which was part of the NOAA Corps. So this all came together in 1966. There was a project called Project Storm Fury where they looked at, hey, can we adjust hurricanes by, you know, seeding them to add dry ice or whatever in them to weaken the eyewall, things like that. Basically, they thought they were successful, but we learned it was just an eyewall replacement cycle. These, these storms, you can't affect them. They are as nature intended them. They are the way to distribute heat from the tropics to the poles. So no matter, you know, what we do, they are going to happen. The key thing is to keep people out of harm's way and also to build in resilience right in coastal communities. So NOAA since then had we had some other aircraft. I think there was some Air Force Constellations or a couple other aircraft that we were flying up until 1975 when we got our first delivery of NOAA4.2, which is now known as Kermit. And then in 1976 we got delivery of NOAA43, now known as Miss Piggy as well. So we've been flying those aircraft into storms for NOAA 42 since 1976 and NOAA 43 Miss Piggy since 1977. So we've got about 50 years of history doing this and each time we do it, we're working to incrementally improve. So we're adding new sensors, we're updating new things. Recently in the past couple of years, we've started launching aircraft from an aircraft into a hurricane with uncrewed aircraft systems. So we're trying to increase our knowledge and the persistence of the sensor down in that boundary layer area, down where the moisture meets the wind, as it were, the rubber meets the road, where the hurricane gets its fuel from that very hot water. And how does that ocean atmospheric interaction go?

[Emily Gracie]

So let's go Back to like 19, the mid-70s when these aircraft come in. I'm curious about, you know, we often talk about like how bringing in satellite imagery completely changed how we forecast hurricanes and, and the fact that we actually know that they're coming now. And so I'm curious, did the bringing in the hurricane hunters at that point, did that also really change our ability to forecast hurricanes? Was that a big bump?

[Jonathan Shannon]

Satellites and hurricane hunters are sort of working together now and they're working together even better as we've improved. But in the beginning it was, hey, here's a target based on a Earth goes or a global orbiting Earth environmental sensing satellite, geostationary orbiting environmental satellite, looking down and saying, okay, we see something going. We took the sensors or the weather station to the weather and helped get that initial data. And with the advent of satellites, we're also able to broadcast that data from our aircraft directly to, you know, the National Hurricane center, the National Weather Service for their model. So satellites and aircraft work together. So it's the satellite helps you get that early warning forecast. We go to where the satellite makes it look interesting. Or the models may have gaps in the data and the forecasters really want extra information. So we can do that, you know, with our high altitude aircraft, the Gulfstream 4, that senses all the way around that interesting area and helps resolve those areas of model uncertainty. Or we can do it with our P3 Orion that flies at 8 to 10,000ft into the storm to get that real granular data over four to six Hours of us flying through the storm.

[Emily Gracie]

When did the dropson start?

[Jonathan Shannon]

That's a great question. I think we started working with dropsons as early as the 70s, but we've been modifying them since. So with the Dropsons we used to have, there were very larger, clunkier. Previously we had them just recently down to the size of a large Pringles can, but now we have them. Basically it's a paper towel roll. So we've now moved to what we call the mini sun, which is magically going to appear in camera here. So it's about this size and inside of it, inside this little sensor compartment, it gets temperature, pressure and humidity and then it also gets GPS derived wind speed and direction. So on our P3s, currently these are launched by hand and well, in the G4 as well. They're launched by hand by people at the Airborne Vertical Atmospheric Profiling Station, or AVAP station. And they can track up to four at a time. So what we're looking for in our new aircraft, the new G550 that we expect, you know, next spring in 2025 and the, and the C130s in 2030, is we're going to have more of an automated system that could spit out these smaller drop zones quicker. So we can get more granularity in that regard as well. Basically by spitting out all these weather balloons in reverse so that they can sample what's going on in the atmosphere.

[Emily Gracie]

Are you replacing the P3s or are we just adding.

[Jonathan Shannon]

So the P3s, you know, they've been doing amazing service for us these past years. You know, almost 50 years. We, we re winged the P3s in 2014 and 2016 for Noah 42 and then 2016 to 2018 for NOAA 4 3. We got them new engines, new upgraded engines, new wings. But the P3, nobody's making them anymore and not many people are flying them anymore. Right. So the cost benefit analysis of these, you know, maintaining these amazing platforms is that they are becoming rarer and rarer. They're already, you know, two unique one of a kind aircraft or two of a kind aircraft based on all the instruments they have on them that were built specifically for Noah. But now, you know, it, it's sort of like a vintage car, right? It gets really expensive when you need to do that oil change or, you know, tire change or get a new engines. So that's why we're moving to the C130s. It made more sense. And we're working, using our 50 years of knowledge, working with the P3s continuing to update the instrumentation to build that in to the new C130s. We're getting, as well as working with academic research institutions, you know, other parts of noaa, to make sure that they have the room or the facilities to expand upon the research we've already done. Right. So it's going to be very exciting once we get these C130Js in, to see the amount and different types of data they're able to collect, not just in hurricanes, but to support all the other missions we do with these aircraft.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay. And I'm curious too about like the people on board and you're talking about automated systems. So what's the crew going to look like? Is that going to change at all?

[Jonathan Shannon]

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, we are working to continue to have researchers, crew members on board. I mean, while we're maybe working to automate the dropsons so it's not as much by hand, there's still, you know, uncrewed aircraft systems that we're starting to launch from the, from the C130 or from the P3s and will be launching from the C130Js. So we are expanding our instrumentation set. Maybe it's the same amount of crew that's in there just because they're running a lot more systems, but there are ways to do it, I guess easier if that makes sense, or we can support more researchers on the ground studying the inputs we're getting because we have a higher bandwidth out of this newer aircraft. So that staffing model we're going to fly, figure it out starting in 2030. But we are still going to need crewed aircraft going into hurricanes in the future.

[Emily Gracie]

Yeah, and like you said, you know, this is not happening next season. This is down the road. So projected 2030, how's that timeline looking? Do you think it'll get adjusted at all? What are the dependent factors?

[Jonathan Shannon]

2030 is when we need them. That's what we're working towards. We've got this initial funding with the contract to Design, build an instrument 2. We have the options on the contract to try and get two more for total, we have authorization based on the need that we have for up to six. But it's just getting the funding in getting the place in line with Lockheed to build the equipment and also continuing to get it ready, as it were. So we're continuing, we're continuing to work on the instrumentation that will go on the aircraft. We're doing a lot with the new G550s that are coming on board. So it's a really exciting time to be either an aerospace engineer, an electrical engineer, or meteorologist, working with NOAA just based on what's coming down the pipe with these new aircraft.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay, Jonathan, tell me what your background is.

[Jonathan Shannon]

My background is varied and somewhat interesting. I was a Naval Academy graduate, studied oceanography and minored in French. So I like to say I took the Jacques Cousteau track, did some service on surface warfare ships for about six years, and then got out and started working with NOAA in different positions. So for one period of my time, I was managing fellowship programs for our Office of Coast Survey. So the people who are doing navigational charts. Then I moved to the Office of National Marine Sanctuaries, or National Parks of the Ocean. Got to manage a couple of cool programs there. For about nine years, I worked with the NOAA Fisheries Office of Protected Resources. And then a family move brought me down to Florida, and we had just opened up the new Aircraft Operations Center. I'd worked with the Office of Marine and Aviation Operations a bit, and it was a. It was a perfect fit for me. Got to start doing some really cool work with aircraft in 2019. And I've been here since.

[Emily Gracie]

I've interviewed a lot of hurricane hunters, a lot of people that fly these or meteorologists on board, and they all kind of give me the same thing. And I want to hear from you like a normal person.

[Jonathan Shannon]

Is.

[Emily Gracie]

Is this scary to fly on a hurricane hunter flight? Is it as terrifying as what it sounds? When, I mean, we're talking about a situation where a Category 5 hurricane is approaching Flights, commercial flights are being grounded everywhere, and then the hurricane hunters are taking off and flying into the worst part of this storm. So what is this experience like, and is it safe?

[Jonathan Shannon]

Yeah. So let me first start out with our folks, our crews, Their mission is to make the flight as boring as possible. Right now. The storm will throw different things at them. They say every storm is different, but their goal is you can't fight a hurricane, so you just have to go in there. And I guess flying is falling gracefully. Right. So they fly through the hurricane or fall gracefully, you know, to make sure we're still able to collect the data. I have been on one storm flight. It was in 2019 for Tropical Storm Barry. And, you know, I was a little nervous when I was going. And then I looked on the side of our aircraft. We have all the different hurricanes that the aircraft has flown through on this side. And I looked and I saw that this aircraft has been flying since before I was born into actual hurricanes and I was just going into a tropical storm, so I felt a little better then. But I mean, you're right, it is still, I guess, unnerving as you look and you see, you know, the shaking, the water, it's like a roller coaster through a car wash. Right. But on board the aircraft, all the people are working in sync professionally. The maintainers have already worked super hard down here on the ground to make sure all the systems are functioning. Our pilots, you know, have a lot of on the job training of doing this to become hurricane aircraft commanders. And our meteorologists are, you know, the best looking at what's ahead of them and making the calls to get both the science and the aircraft safely through the hurricane. So, you know, I have a lot of pride in our team. You know, from a guy who flies a desk, you know, that is very straight and level, but, you know, they, they fly through the storm. I get to talk up a storm. We have a very good safety record and we do that intentionally. That everything we do as we plan out the mission is intentional to again, make it as boring as possible as you can be in flying into a hurricane.

[Emily Gracie]

Okay, so when the planes come back and the crew's getting off and the media is getting off, what, what are some things that you've seen as far as interesting experiences of people coming back after these missions?

[Jonathan Shannon]

Yeah, I mean, our folks, when they come back, they're tired. I mean, it's eight to 10 hours of flying with four to six of it being somewhat bumpy. You know, folks are giving me some of the video or, you know, high fives as we're coming back. They're telling me a little bit about the mission so I can talk about it on our, our social media. And basically the reason I do that is to get something that's eye catching so people will actually go to the National Hurricane center or their NWS forecast office to figure out what they need to do as the hurricane gets closer to them. So we can get a lot of views on our videos and bumping along. But it's always meant to drive people to where that forecast and advisory is so they can stay safe. That's the real reason we fly the mission. So we, we have some media folks who say, hey, it was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Some of them don't try and fly again. Some are dissatisfied with the one. You know, it is sort of a bucket list item for a lot of people. So we have to manage, you know, seats and availability in that Regard. But yeah, the team is just amazing to work with. And everybody who does come off the team that's a visitor is just impressed with the professionalism, the, the way we take care of the aircraft and, and all through the flight.

[Emily Gracie]

Any thoughts on what the new aircraft are going to be named or is that something that's going to come in time? Are we going with the same.

[Jonathan Shannon]

I sort of sworn to secrecy on that. Yeah, I can't. I can't. I can't say.

[Emily Gracie]

A press release in the future, I guess.

[Jonathan Shannon]

Yeah, a press release in the future. We are still going to be honoring the Muppet Herit. So I can at least say that we will continue honoring the Muppet heritage that we've had at the NOAA Hurricane Hunters for a while, but that's about as far as I can go.

[Emily Gracie]

Awesome. Jonathan, is there anything else you want to add about the NOAA Hurricane Hunters or the new aircraft?

[Jonathan Shannon]

You know, there's the NOAA Hurricane Hunters and then there's all our different light aircraft missions that are continually flying year round as well. One of those important ones, especially during a storm event, is our emergency response imagery and aircraft. So we've been flying with our King Air these past three, four days around the Florida areas that have been impacted. And we may get tasked by FEMA to go up to the North Carolina areas, but with high resolution imagery, helping people understand, you know, what has happened to the area. And it also allows people to be able to look and check in on their houses, for example, because it's georeferenced to see if they still have a roof or what has gone on. And so that damage response imagery is very important as well. You know, the one thing I would also leave you with is there's no off season for science. So these aircraft, all the lessons we've learned in both hurricanes, we're using in winter storms, we're using in atmospheric rivers. On the west coast, we're doing what we call ocean winds projects, where we're helping to calibrate and validate the satellites that are looking at the wind speed over the ocean and the significant wave heights in extreme wind events like hurricanes and polar lows. But then that's distributed around the world. For the mariners that are out there at sea, you know, as we have maybe, you know, Hurricane Kirk out there in the middle of the ocean, it still matters, you know, where those waves are going. And as people are transiting for the.

[Emily Gracie]

Maritime commerce, the data collection for, like, atmospheric rivers and winter storms is that similar. Are you doing drones are you doing drop sounds in those as well right.

[Jonathan Shannon]

Now for atmospheric rivers and the winter storms, it's mainly dropsons and it's also our tail Doppler radars. And then what we have on the P3 is called a SMURF or a stepped frequency microwave radiometer that is looking down at surface derived wind speeds as well as the same instruments that are on a satellite. So we've got satellite radar altimeters in the belly of our P3s that are also running. And so they're able to time that with satellite passes and get sort of that same data calibrated and validated as well as us just flying around gathering that data so they can understand how it's affected by a significant rain or other things like that that the satellite has to look through.

[Emily Gracie]

Well, Jonathan, thank you so much for your time. This is very enlightening. I always learn something new. As many interviews as I've done with the hurricane hunters, there's always something new every single time.

[Jonathan Shannon]

Well, thank you very much for having me, Emily. I appreciate it.

[Emily Gracie]

If you're looking for a way to help the victims of Hurricane Helene, our parent company, Sinclair Broadcast Group, is fundraising on behalf of the Salvation army with all donations designated for delivering emergency aid, including food, water, shelter and cleanup kits. Go to sinclaircares.com if you're interested in donating. Off the Radar is a production of the National Weather Desk. Make sure you're following the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes publish every Tuesday. You can also now listen to the show on YouTube. Just search the National Weather Desk and find it under the podcast tab. If you like today's show, please share it with a friend and make sure you check out our other episodes about hurricane hunting. Thank you to Daniel Tyson and Jonathan Shannon at NOAA for being on the show today. Also thank you to my associate producer Brian Petrus for all of his help on this week's episode. For the National Weather Desk, our meteorologist Emily Gracie, make it a great day.