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- [00:01]
Emily Gracie
Hi everyone. Emily Gracie here, host of off the Radar. Hope everyone's having a great summer. A lot of you headed to the beach this summer and if there's one thing we all think about at the beach, it is sharks. So on this very special episode of off the Radar, you're going to hear from our special guest host. You've heard me mention him before, Associate producer Brian Petras. He has taken it away with this episode. We have some awesome new episodes coming out in both July and August, so be sure to hit subscribe. Thank you to Brian for hosting today's episode and I hope you all enjoy it. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families, helping kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today@greenlight.com wondery that's greenlight.com wondery the ocean is ancient.
- [01:17]
Brian Petras
Its depths are unfathomable and its inhabitants can seem equally mysterious. The number one animal that comes to mind, Sharks. I'll never forget the first time I watched the movie Jaws. I was way too young for it, but my dad let me watch it with him anyway. One of the main characters, Quint, famously said, the thing about a shark, he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes, like a doll's eyes. It was a haunting description. I wasn't able to look at a shark's features the same way again. We watched this movie right before a trip up the coast to Cape Cod, which my dad reminded me was not far from where the movie took place. Thanks, dad. Every time I entered the water, my body would tense up, gripped with fear that there was something lurking below the surface. I was just a young kid and this trip was a lifetime ago. So the truth is, I really couldn't tell you with any certainty how clear the water was off the Cape that day. But I remember thinking at the time it felt murky enough and the ocean felt big enough that there could be invisible hunters lurking close to shore, close to me. I loved to swim, but every few minutes, the scenario I'd built up in my head would become too much for me and I'd make a mad dash back to the shore. And that's where I'd find my dad lying in the sun, blissfully Unaware of the nightmare he'd created. For me, a fear of sharks isn't really unique, and it's even sort of understandable. They're an ancient species. They're older than dinosaurs. Their habitats are seemingly infinite. They can live in deep water or shallow open ocean or coastal regions, warm water or cold. And it's not like in Jaws, where a shark's fin always pops up above the surface to warn you that it's coming. Oftentimes, they operate in secret below the surface. What's going on down there? It feeds into our natural human fear of the unknown. Just look at old mariners maps of the ocean. They used to print warnings like here there be monsters. Of course, sharks aren't actually monsters. They may be predators, but their behavior is fairly predictable. The past few summers here in New York, there have been a barrage of reports about increased interactions between sharks and humans on Long Island's coastal beaches. I read headlines that made me panic, calling these interactions the new norm. They describe NYPD and NYFD personnel operating drones to observe the water from above for shark activity. The whole thing seemed like kind of a spectacle. I went to school for environmental biology, but I lived in the mountains and I studied in the forest. There's a lot I don't know about sharks. And the more that I researched them, the more I realized that these undersea creatures might just be misunderstood. When I set out to make this episode, I thought to myself, there must be a lot of other people like me who don't really understand sharks and who find that mystery to be just a little scary. Enter my guest on the podcast today, Greg Metzger. He's the chief field coordinator for the shark work conducted through the South Fork Natural History Museum on Long Island. Greg is here to tell us how our changing climate is affecting shark human interactions, and hopefully to help take some of the fear and the mystery out of these ancient ocean creatures. Welcome to the show, Greg. Thank you for being here.
- [05:13]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, thanks for having us. I'm excited to speak to your audience.
- [05:16]
Brian Petras
Can you tell us a bit more about the work that you do and how you got into it?
- [05:20]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, so we do. Our work is conducted through the South Fork Natural History Museum, which is located out in the east end of Long island out in Bridgehampton. It's been there for just under 40 years now. I think they're celebrating 37 or 38 years. And really their mission is to create stewards of the East End environments, one of which includes the ocean. And so I went to college with the current executive director, Frank Quivetto. And he and I and a couple of our other friends have all graduated marine science together and went on to different aspects of marine science. And we sort of loosely kept in touch until the shark idea of creating a research and education program kind of started to get traction. And then that brought, brought us together and we started to go out and catch and tag the various species of sharks and that we currently do. It started with a tease from our lead scientist, Dr. Toby Curtis, with the south shore of Long island being a white shark nursery. And so that's what really started our scientific journey, was going out and trying to catch and tag baby white sharks. But in trying to catch and tag them, we started to catch a lot of other species of sharks. And so that organically has grown to internationally known sort of shark research powerhouse program that we've, we've been able to build here on the, on the east end of Long Island.
- [06:39]
Brian Petras
It sounds like you also do a lot of research there as well, is that correct?
- [06:43]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, so we're the South Fork Natural History Museum Shark Research and Education program, and we take both of those very seriously. So the summertime is when the sharks that we're interested in studying are in our waters. And so we might be going out this Saturday if the weather holds out, to do our first expedition to try and catch and tag sharks. And then basically through the, whatever data we collect over the course of the summer, then goes to various scientists that were supporting their research, and then they analyze the data and hopefully write up the papers, you know, either that year. Sometimes it takes multiple years for us to catch enough sharks to collect enough data for the research to be written up. But we also work on education, outreach and initiatives. And this is a perfect example of how our research can transpire to education and get the word out to answer questions that people have about sharks along the south shore of Long Island. So. So the two really do go hand in hand.
- [07:40]
Brian Petras
I imagine it's probably sort of an uphill battle when you think about how sharks are depicted in movies and television. You know, I remember growing up with things like Shark Week on Discovery Channel. What do you think about the ways that sharks are depicted in media?
- [07:55]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, so the unfortunate part is shark sell and people are used to seeing sharks in a negative light because I forget I saw a statistic somewhere. I forget what it is. If it was high 80s or low. 90% of the time a shark is shown or talked about, it's in a negative connotation. And so people are just used to sharks being the bad guy. Being the one that everybody's afraid of. And, and that's what people are used to. And so that's what people gravitate towards. And that's what the media and the outlets and stuff, for the most part, are trying to push because their perception is reality. And so it is a bit of an uphill battle, like you suggested, to try and use our work and our platforms to undo that. I also grew up with Shark Week, and it's, it's every year it gets more and more increasingly frustrating to see how unfortunate Shark Week has sort of become. You know, when I, when we first started watching it, it really was about the scientists and new discoveries and what the new, latest technology was, what new species of shark. It was really about the science. And, and, and it's cool enough. There's the science that we do and the unknowns and the things that we're finding and the new technology that allows us to unlock these mysteries of sharks is super cool. You don'. To add all the nonsense that's been added to it. And so, you know, we are not big fans of Shark Week. You know, National Geographics, Shark Fest still does maintain some of that science integrity that, that we grew up with. And so again, platforms like this, newspapers, radios, second grade classes, anybody that's willing to have us come in and talk about the work that we do and sort of try to chip away at that, that negative interaction, negative connotations that sharks have, we're more than willing and happy to try to do that, definitely.
- [09:43]
Brian Petras
And on that note, what's something that you wish people knew about sharks?
- [09:47]
Emily Gracie
So one thing for sure is that they've got a hard day out there trying to survive. Just like, just like all of us, you know, it's hard to be a shark out in the ocean. The other thing is that, you know, they're not these mindless eating machines that are depicted. They certainly are not interested in eating and consuming humans. The number of sharks that are out there in the waters that are interacting or that have the opportunity to interact with people and swimmers, there would be tens of thousands of people getting bit every day. And it's, it's a fraction of, of that, you know, every year. And so those are two big things that I think are important for people to understand, you know, to just. Sharks have a hard time surviving out there. You know, there's a lot of odds against them. They got good days and bad days, and certainly that they're not interested in consuming and eating people, which is very comforting.
- [10:36]
Brian Petras
And I'm sure A lot of people like me who have that kind of knee jerk reaction or that fear of sharks probably forget about. There have been a few articles in the news the last two summers talking about shark incidents in Long Island's waters. I believe your colleague Frank was actually quoted in one of those articles from the New York Post. Some of these articles are calling this increase in shark encounters the new norm. Is that overstating things in your opinion? And what do you think are some of the driving factors behind that increase in encounters?
- [11:06]
Emily Gracie
So I think it's important to sort of put it a little bit in context. Sharks have always been in Long island waters. We have sharks in our waters year round. There's sharks here that are, that are here in the wintertime. You never hear about them or see anything about them because there aren't a whole lot of people out there in the winter. So, you know, the advent of cell phones, the advent of drones, the advent of just overall general awareness has given, I think, an unrealistic sense of this surge in sharks. You know, so 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know, not too many people probably had cell phones, certainly to the number and degree that they have today. They certainly didn't have access to social media and stuff like that. So you know, 10, 15, 15 years ago, if you were walking on the beach and you saw a shark, how many people would you be able to share that with? You know, now depending on your following, you know, you could share it to every news media outlet that's in the Tri State area and immediately it's being blasted out and that that's incorporating, you know, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, you know, so there's this perception because every time a shark is seen or is thought to be seen by a drone or phone or, you know, it's immediately put out there. So there's this, you know, shark, shark, shark, shark, and, and they've always basically been there. It's just we now have access to seeing them and distributing that. So I think that that's part of, you know, they've always been there. It's just that we have more access to seeing them and disseminating those sites. With that being said though, there are, you know, increases in sharks that are in our waters. And I've seen that over the 20 years that I've been, you know, fishing here along the south shore of Long Island. We are seeing sharks in larger numbers for a couple of different reasons. Almost all of the published sort of population study data that's come out recently have shown several of the Sharks that are found in our waters in the summertime time are starting to increase in population. So there are slightly more of them out there. And that's a good thing because we've been trying to conserve sharks for about 30 years now. And so we're, you know, sharks are long lived, they reproduce slowly, they take a long time to reproduce. And so, you know, 30 years sounds like a long time, but for sharks that might only be one, one generation. So when the populations were reduced heavily in the 80s primarily by the fishery, it's taking, you know, 30, 40, 50 years of conservation to start seeing some populations increase. We also are seeing because the waters are warming. You know, the water gets these, these sharks. We're finding like particular temperature ranges and so those temperature, those sweet temperatures are starting to creep into Long island waters sooner and they're staying longer. So that physically just gives sharks more time to migrate from say Florida or South Carolina, which is their overwintering areas, to Long island waters. So they have longer time to get here. And once they're here, you know, we're also seeing a lot more bunker in our water. So our bunker, menhaden, which is a primary food source for a lot of animals that are here in the summertime, whales, dolphins, osprey, sharks, striped bass. And so it's worth it. You know, the sharks are able to, they have the temperature ranges to be here for longer periods of time and it's worth it for them to be here because there's a tremendous amount of easy food out there in the bunker school. So, so there's a lot, I think it's, there's multiple layers of things that are happening that are bringing, there are more sharks in Long island waters in the summertime, but there's also this increase in, you know, access and availability to those sightings. So we got to weigh those two.
- [14:50]
Brian Petras
Things together and just to confirm for listeners. Bunker are a type of fish, is that correct?
- [14:56]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, so they're a small foraging fish. They, they're about a foot long, full, full grown and they aggregate in huge numbers. Thousands, tens of thousands of them will be in a single school and, and they'll be, there'll be hundreds of schools all along the south shore of Long island certain times of the year in the summertime. And so it's just a tremendous food source for anything that likes to eat a one foot fish. You know, I can't, it's not, I just want to, while it's in my head and we don't get off topic, it's not all the sharks you need, you need sharks and people in the same place at the same time. And so as far as I know, based on human population counts, we're only going up as well. So, so there are more sharks in Long island waters, but there's also more people in Long island waters. You know, the summers are getting hotter, there's more, there's physically more people in the world, so you're going to have more people going to the beaches. The summers are hotter, so you're going to have more people physically going in the water. So that chance of having a shark and a person in the same spot at the same time also increases. So, you know, the, the, the actual physical, like tally marks of negative interactions have gone up, but if you look at the statistical probability of a negative interaction, it's almost the same, which is almost zero. So, you know, it's not all a shark problem. It's a people problem too.
- [16:19]
Brian Petras
Absolutely. And I think that's really interesting. I'm curious, as we've seen extreme weather become sort of the norm in recent years with climate change, and that's projected to continue. So we've got warmer climates driving more people into the water and also warmer water temperatures for sharks. Do you envision that that upward trend might continue?
- [16:38]
Emily Gracie
I mean, I think that, you know, based on my limited understanding of historical shark populations, you know, we're, we're nowhere near back to those historic levels now. There's all kinds of arguments as to whether we would ever be able to get back to those historic levels because the environment has changed so much and all that sort of stuff. So what is sort of the, what is the maximum carrying capacity for sharks in today's day and age? You know, I'm not, that's not my area of expertise. I have no idea. But if we are going to use historic understanding of shark populations, currently we're nowhere near that. So we are going, the ocean is going to have a lot more sharks in it if we're going to go back to those historic levels. I have no idea what human population plateau level is. My, my guess is we're probably not near the end of that also. So again, it's all about statistics. So if you have more people and more sharks in the same spot, you physically are probably going to have more negative interactions, but the statistical probability of it happening is still almost zero. You know, if you think about, again, you have to have a person and a shark in the water at the same time. So how many people, how many times have people been in the water and out of the water in a day. So if it's just you and me, we go to the beach, we're two people, but we might be in and out of the water 40 times in that day between the two of us. Well, there's 40 times you and I could have been bit by a shark. Now multiply that by the, I don't know, 16 million that were, I think, at Jones beach last year. So it's literally billions of opportunities that a person could have been bit by a shark along the south shore of Long island last year. And we didn't have any, you know, and our. Our worst. Our worst year for New York, I think we had seven in a year. So out of billions of opportunities that a person was in the water and was probably within vicinity of a shark, only seven of those billions of opportunities went bad. So if you take seven and divide it by a couple of billion, you get almost zero. And so that's really the statistics that we're talking about when it. When it comes to, you know, negative interactions between sharks and people. So I think, I think these are important things for, for your viewers to kind of have context for as what we're taught. Just the magnitude is a problem. Now, is it horrific when it happens? Absolutely. I can't think of a worst possible thing, but the chances of it happening are so infinitesimally small.
- [19:12]
Brian Petras
Something I've read about in recent months is that the Parks Department, in partnership with the FDNY and nypd, have been deploying drones to monitor beaches for shark activity. You had shared with me a published article, some research that you and your colleagues recently did at the South Fork Natural History Museum. Can you tell us a little bit more about that research and what you were finding as far as drone usage for shark monitoring?
- [19:34]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, so the primary workhorse for our research is we put tags on various species of sharks. I think we have about 10 different species of sharks that we analyze the data for, for that paper that you've referenced. And we look at the temperature and the depth of the water. And so one of the tags that we use is a pop off satellite tag. It stays on the shark for 28 days, and it records the depth and temperature of the shark every 10 seconds for those 28 days. It then releases from the shark, it floats to the surface, and it relays that data to a satellite so we don't have to get the tag back to get the data. But fortunately for us, a lot of those tags do wash up on the beach, and we'd be able to recover them. So we can get a much higher resolution. We only get 5 minute resolution if it's just satellite data, but if we get the, we can get the 10 second resolution. The other tag that we used for that paper is an acoustic tag. It gets surgically implanted into the shark and it has a pressure sensor on it. And it basically works like an easy pass. All along the south shore of Long island there are these receivers that are sitting in the water and the receivers are, whenever a tagged shark swims past one of those receivers within, within range, it's, it's several hundred meters that the shark can swim by. And the tag emits a unique code, a unique vibration that's detected by the receiver. So the receiver timestamps what shark it is what time and day and the depth that the, that the shark was at. So we've used our satellite pop off tag data and our acoustic tag data that give that, that depth to look at what percentage of times are the sharks spending, you know, what percent of time are they spending at these various depths? And so we were able to analyze 10 different species of sharks. I think it was 150 individuals looking specifically at how much time did these different species of sharks spend within 1 meter of the surface of the water, within 5 meters, within 12 meters. You know, we partitioned it out. We then looked at the actual satellite. There was a lot of fuzzy magic going on. That is not my area of expertise in terms of analyzing this. But they basically took satellite imagery of sea surface clarity and was able to actually look at, you know, what is the average clarity of the water in New York between June and October. So it's the sharks swimming in the water at the same time that the water quality was being clarity and stuff was looked at. They also, we also looked at wave heights and looked at the average wave heights. Right, because it's time of day. So and we only looked at the sharks for this paper during the day because nobody's, you're not going to see them at night. So this, it's only the daytime where the sharks were swimming at what, that's during the daytime. And then we looked at, you know, the average clarity of the water, the average depth of the water. And we sort of just put all that together and spit out the answers, which is, you know, the, the majority of the species of sharks that we studied spend the majority of their time below 1 meter, which is about 3ft of water. And so the average clarity of water is about 2 meters. So most of the sharks spent Most of their time below the depths at which you would be able to detect them with the drone. I think the best shark was a smooth hammerhead. And that shark I think spent 20 some percent of its time in the top layer where it could be observed. But that shark is not one that has been identified as a naughty shark, as we sometimes call it. So there's been no negative interactions between that shark and humans. The three according to the International Shark Attack file that have been identified. So one was a sand tiger shark. So one of the bites was confirmed a sand tiger shark because there was a piece of tooth that was stuck in the person and they were able to DNA the tooth. So sand tiger was one. A larger white shark was also confirmed to do one of the bites and then the rest of them were categorized as undetermined carcharinid. So a carcharinid in our waters would be dusky sandbar, black tip or spinner shark. And so all of the species that were those six species, basically none of them would have been detected by a drone. They were only in that top meter for just a single digits of percentage of the time. So we just question that, you know, the use of drone is, is the time, according to our data that the sharks would be detectable worth the effort and energy and cost of, you know, the drones going out there? Now drones do see sharks, but they do also miss a lot of sharks. And so we just caution that the messaging going out to the public is accurate. You know, the, the public is not safe because there's a drone flying, there's a lot of sharks out there and most of the sharks are not going to be seen by a drone. So that's sort of the, the overall sort of takeaway message of the paper that, that we wrote.
- [24:46]
Brian Petras
That's really interesting. That was something that had really surprised me because I've been seeing more and more coverage over the last year about these drones being deployed and how they were considered part of the broader beach safety program. I think they're also being used for reaching people that are drowning or getting pulled out to sea, things like that. So I think there's maybe other uses as well. But it's surprising because I, I found it very comforting to read about them, but it's surprising that they aren't actually very effective at spotting sharks.
- [25:14]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, it's, you know, and we're not saying, we're not saying, you know, drones are a tool, they're not the tool. And you know, the, the negative interactions between humans and sharks are, are new to New York, but they're not new to the world. And I'm fortunate that I, I have connections with a lot of other scientists around the world that have been dealing with negative interactions for a lot longer than we have. And there's been a lot of studies done to look at all these things. And it really boils down to education is the cheapest, easiest and by far the most effective tool at beach safety is if you educate the beachgoers on things that they can do or things to be aware of and let them make the decisions as to when and where and how long they want to get in the water. That single handedly throughout time, throughout the world, throughout all these different places where negative interactions have occurred between people. It always boils down to the best, cheapest is education and research. You know, I mean we have, you know, we tagged 150 sharks, we analyzed 150 sharks worth of data, but I let a lot of data swim away. The tags are very expensive to collect. So if we had, you know, 600 sharks tagged, then we, you know, we could, we could paint better pictures and have a better understanding. There is technology that's out there that sort of can give real time information, but it requires sharks to be tagged. And so you need time, effort and energy and resources to get out there and tag more sharks, to get more information, to make more informed decisions as to when and where it's the safest to get in the water.
- [26:57]
Brian Petras
Outside of drones and potentially tagging sharks, is there any emergent technology or new innovations that you see coming out in the next few years that might give more insight or more up to date monitoring?
- [27:08]
Emily Gracie
I mean, the technology is certainly there, it's being perfected and worked on. You know, the limiting factor is having all of the sharks tagged, right? So you have to have a tag. As of right now, there's no way to detect an untagged shark that I know of. Now I haven't heard of anybody working on that technology to try to detect untagged sharks. So right now, to the best of my understanding, it's based on having sharks tags. So the more sharks that you can have tagged, the more you're going to be able to detect those sharks or you know, some, some shark species do sort of aggregate or again, you know, it might be the, the conditions that are there. So if you have, if you're detecting a particular individual shark, say a spinner shark, well, if you're detecting one or two, chances are there's probably going to be more spinner sharks in that Area because the water temperature is right or the food is there. And so there's only a handful of sharks tag compared to the number of sharks that are out there. So for right now, the limiting factor is, is just number of sharks that we can have access to.
- [28:13]
Brian Petras
I wanted to circle back real quick. You had mentioned earlier about how bunker fish are a major source of food for a lot of sharks. I had read somewhere, and correct me if I'm wrong, that contrary to public perception, the vast majority of encounters between humans and sharks are accidental. I grew up hearing that sharks mistake humans for food, but they're not typically mistaking humans for food. Is that right? The vast majority are sort of an accidental encounter altogether that they don't even necessarily want.
- [28:46]
Emily Gracie
Yeah. So that, you know, the unfortunate part is we can't speak shark. You know, I can't go ask the shark, hey, you know, why'd you bite that guy? What was, you know, what was going on with that one? What I can say is I spend a lot of time trying to catch sharks. And so as that's, that's. I'm the chief field coordinator, so I organize and conduct, I organize all, almost all of the field data, so all the shark tagging stuff. And also I'm fortunate to get out there and actually do what I think is the best part, which is the field part. So I get to catch and actually tag the sharks and collect the data, and then I pass that off to the scientists to do their thing. So I spend a tremendous amount of time in and around the edges of these bunker schools trying to catch the sharks that are there eating those bunker. And so I have hundreds of hours now just watching sharks be sharks. And what I can tell you is a lot of the sharks that we catch are about 5 to 6ft long and weigh about 150 pounds. The average person is about 5 or 6ft long, weighing about, you know, 150, 200 pounds. And I see these sharks bumping each other, chasing each other, nipping each other almost daily. And those sharks are not trying to eat each other. They're just trying to do whatever it is that they're doing, Communicate, go on a date, discourage. I don't know what they're doing, but I see this behavior very, very often. And so if you're a person sitting in their food, you know, it's. It's not unusual or it wouldn't be out of their realm to bump you or nip you because you're just in their way. You're like another potential shark or Something, again, I can't ask them. These are just sort of assumptions that I'm making watching them do their thing. But what I can tell you is I see these sharks nipping and bumping and biting each other all the time in and around Bunker School. So it's not a stretch to have that happen. Now the problem is our skin isn't as tough and thick as shark skin. So you get a little nip from a shark, you're going to the hospital, you're, you know, you're going to get probably some stitches, you know, or not. A lot of the, the wounds from the victims that, you know, were bit that I saw, they were, you know, treated and released at the beach. They had a band aid, they were, it was no big deal. And so, you know, there again, that, that is not a shark that was intending on consuming that individual. You know, a little nip would not, would not do that. They were actually trying to consume the person. The other thing that I see is a lot of the sharks that are here are juveniles and some of them are, might only be a few weeks or a month or so old. So we refer to that year class as young of the year. And so that person might be literally the first human that shark has ever seen in its entire life. And so sharks explore their world by biting and nipping and, you know, smelling and swimming around. And so it's possible that some of those bites were from a three foot dusky shark that's seen a human for the very, very first time. Now dusky sharks are born full battle rattle ready to go. They have a full set of teeth sharp as knives. They're predators at birth. And so again, a tiny little dusky comes up and nips you, you're going to have a fairly significant injury. So these are things that I see almost every day out there trying to catch and tag these sharks. So our biggest message to the public is do not swim in or near the edge of bunker schools. Most of the negative interactions that have happened on Long island, from the ones I've had a chance to either speak with directly or very close to being directly, they were in or very near the edges of bunker schools. So of the, I think we have what, 12 or 13 negative interactions for New York waters now, probably at least half of them could have been avoided if the people weren't in the bunker schools. So stay out of the bunker schools. Before you go into the water, look, look at the water. Do you see splashes? Do you see whales and dolphins? Do you see birds? You Know, swimming at the water, you know, if you see those types of things, that's probably a feeding event. And there's a very good chance that sharks are there as well. So if you're in the water and you notice bunker schools coming down the beach or you see a lot of fish splashing or activity get out of the water, there's probably going to be a feeding activity there. So again, very, very simple thing that the general public just doesn't know. And so any opportunities we have to just get that messaging out, I think is going to help reduce the negative interaction count that we'll have.
- [33:17]
Brian Petras
It's interesting what you said too, about them being juveniles and that's kind of their first interactions with humans. It makes me think of how human babies just interact with their world by putting toys and things in their mouth. It sounds like sharks kind of similarly just haven't learned to explore yet what we are. And they quickly realize that we're not food and we're not a threat, and then we just kind of go our separate ways.
- [33:40]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, I mean, like I said again, you know, you get purists, scientists, and like, you can't say anything. You don't know that. It's like, I realize that I don't, I can't speak shark. I don't know. But I have spent hours and hours and hours observing them and seeing them and seeing them bite things and, you know, I can't imagine there not being some truth to that. You know, things put things in their mouth when they need to explore. You know, sharks don't have hands and fingers and thumbs. You know, they have their mouth and it's very sensitive and, you know, it is unbelievable how sharp, you know, sharks teeth can be. They're, they're unbelievably sharp, even at those tiny little, little ages.
- [34:15]
Brian Petras
Are there any other safety tips or precautions that people can take to stay safe when they go to the beach?
- [34:20]
Emily Gracie
Yep. You know, again, you need a person and a shark in the same spot. So limiting the amount of time that you're in the water also. Right. So if you're not in the water, you're not going to be at risk at potentially being the same spot as a shark. Certainly swimming in groups. You know, sharks are opportunistic, you know, so they're always weighing, you know, risk versus rewards. So if you had a shark that was. Might be thinking about, is this thing something I could, I could chew on? If there's a lot of people there, if there's a lot of stuff going on the shark's probably going to be like, nah, not worth it. You know, I'm not, not worth it. So certainly stay groups avoiding low light conditions. So swimming in early morning and late evening, sharks are taking advantage of that low light. So it's harder for their prey to kind of see them coming and they're able to take advantage of that low light situation. So there's tendencies to be increased feeding activities in the early morning and late evening. So avoid swimming at those times. And then structure, you know, if you could avoid. If you know that there's a, a shipwreck out there or there's the, the rocks, some of the rocks. I know some places along the south shore they have those rock, what are they called, groins or something. So those are structure that could hold, you know, smaller bait fish and potentially could, could have sharks there. And the biggest thing really is, is just avoid, avoid the bunker schools. That's. I use the analogy, you know, if you were reading the newspaper and, and you heard of someone that was sitting on a dead zebra in Africa and they got mauled by a lion, you know, what would your reaction be? It probably would be like, what do you, what they were sitting on a dead zebra and why would you do that in Africa? Of course they're going to get mold. I'm surprised it wasn't a hyena or you know, some other species. And so when you're sitting in a bunker school or right along the edge of a bunker school, it's literally the equivalent of sitting on a dead zebra in Africa. You know, people do it all the time. I see it constantly, hundreds of times a day. Like I said, I'm out along those bunker schools and I see people paddle boarding and surfing and sitting on their surfboards, literally them. And none of them have had a negative interaction. So, you know, the chances are even if you're doing everything wrong, you're still probably not going to have a bad day because of a shark.
- [36:33]
Brian Petras
Those are all really good tips to keep in mind. Hopefully everyone can stay safe this summer. Any closing thoughts on sharks as wildlife or just things in general you wish more people knew about sharks?
- [36:45]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, I think having having this abundance of not only individual sharks but also shark species, we interact with about 12 different species of sharks every year in the summertime. And you're not going to have that number of species and that number of individuals if this wasn't a really great place to live. And also adding in that, you know, like I said, most of the animals that we see are young of the year. You know, our work defined a few years ago that the south shore of Long island is a nursery for great white sharks. So, you know, give it some time and there, there'll probably some be some other shark species who are deemed the south shore as a nursery as well. So it's a really good thing to have all these sharks here. It shows us that the environment is a good place. So keep the conservation efforts moving forward and take advantage to learn, you know, how to interact with a more conserved ocean.
- [37:38]
Brian Petras
Great. Thank you again, Greg, for being here. This has been very informative and educational and we really appreciate it.
- [37:44]
Emily Gracie
Yeah, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you. Excellent questioning.
- [37:49]
Brian Petras
Once again, I want to thank our guest today, Greg Metzger, for helping to remove some of the fear and uncertainty around sharks. He gave us some great summer safety tips as well. Worth keeping in mind for your next trip to the beach. I'd also like to thank you all for listening and most importantly, I want to thank Emily Gracie for giving me the opportunity to do this episode. This is, this has been such a fun, unique experience and I'm so grateful for all of the support and guidance Emily has given me. Tune in next week when Emily will be back for another episode of off the Radar. I'm Brian Petras. See you all next time.
- [38:30]
Emily Gracie
Ben hadn't had a decent night's sleep in a month. So during one of his restless nights, he booked a package trip abroad on Expedia. When he arrived at his beachside hotel, he discovered a miraculous bed slung between two trees and fell into their best sleep of his life. You were made to be rechargeable. We were made to package flights and hotels and hammocks for less Expedia, made to travel.