Royal News, Not Legal Advice (with Reb Masel)

Summary

Episode Summary: "Royal News, Not Legal Advice (with Reb Masel)"

Released on February 27, 2025, "Off With Their Headlines" hosted by Amanda Matta and Meredith Constant, features a special guest appearance by Reb Masel, a practicing attorney, podcast host, and legal content creator.

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1. Introduction to Reb Masel

Meredith and Amanda warmly welcome Reb Masel, highlighting her vibrant presence on social media platforms like TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. Reb shares her journey from a small farm town in Illinois to becoming a prominent legal commentator in California. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining humor and wit in the legal profession, stating, “I really just wanted to keep it separate and just be the lawyer that I can be in my own life” (03:52).

2. The Prince Harry Visa Controversy

The conversation shifts to the controversial reports suggesting that former President Donald Trump might deport Prince Harry due to his strained relationship with Meghan Markle. Reb provides a legal perspective, explaining the complexities of immigration law and the improbability of such actions: “In theory, a president cannot have the authority to...” (15:34). They dissect the legal limitations of executive power, with Reb emphasizing that “the legal answer... is no” (15:32).

3. Meghan Markle's Trademark Application

Reb delves into the media frenzy surrounding Meghan Markle's trademark application for "American Riviera Orchard." She clarifies misconceptions about the legal process, explaining that the USPTO's responses are standard procedures: “It's just normal stuff. None of those grounds are fatal...” (25:17). The hosts critique how mundane legal actions are sensationalized in the media, leading to unwarranted public scrutiny.

4. Executive Orders and Judicial Responses

Reb discusses the flood of executive orders during Trump's administration, particularly those targeting transgender individuals in the military. She highlights the overwhelming number of lawsuits challenging these orders and the robust defense by the judicial system: “There's going to be someone in an ill fitting suit in court eating the fuck out of this motion...” (49:16). Reb underscores the resilience of the legal framework in upholding constitutional principles against political maneuvers.

5. Hope Amidst Legal Challenges

Despite the chaotic political climate, Reb finds solace in the dedication of attorneys and nonprofit organizations fighting for civil rights. She praises the work of groups like the Acacia Center for Justice, which provides pro bono legal services to unaccompanied minors in immigration courts: “What makes me so proud... is to see all these people swarming to donate...” (51:09). Reb highlights the unwavering commitment of the legal community in safeguarding democracy and individual rights.

6. Lighthearted Discussion on Courtroom Fashion

Transitioning to a lighter topic, the hosts and Reb engage in a fun discussion about courtroom attire. Reb shares her appreciation for tailored suits and the importance of presenting oneself professionally in court: “You can absolutely be an attorney and wear amazing, incredible pink tailored suits...” (57:24). This segment adds a personal touch, balancing the intense legal discussions with humor and style insights.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Reb promoting her upcoming book, set for a November 11th release, aimed at blending legal advice with humor. Amanda and Meredith encourage listeners to connect with Reb on her social media platforms and support the causes discussed throughout the episode.

Notable Quotes:

• Reb Masel: “I really just wanted to keep it separate and just be the lawyer that I can be in my own life.” (03:52)
• Reb Masel: “In theory, a president cannot have the authority to...” (15:34)
• Reb Masel: “It's just normal stuff. None of those grounds are fatal...” (25:17)
• Reb Masel: “There's going to be someone in an ill fitting suit in court eating the fuck out of this motion...” (49:16)
• Reb Masel: “What makes me so proud... is to see all these people swarming to donate...” (51:09)

For more insights and exclusive content, listeners are encouraged to visit the podcast's Patreon page and follow the hosts and Reb Masel on their respective social media platforms.

Transcript

[Career Coach]

It's time to come clean with yourself. Let's be completely honest. Are you happy with your job? Like, really happy? The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Far too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never wanted in the first place. But still, we stick it out and we give reasons. Like, what if the next move is even worse? I've already put years into this place. I can't afford to take a wrong step. And maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone kind of miserable at work?

[On Deck Representative]

But.

[Career Coach]

But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you actually want to be. Your coach helps you get clear on your goals, create a plan, build your confidence, and keeps you accountable along the way. So don't leave your career to chance. Take action and own your future with a professional coach in your corner. Go to Strawberry Me Career to claim a special offer. That's Strawberry Me Me Career Propel Fitness.

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[Reb Maisel]

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[Meredith Constant]

Hello and welcome to off with Their Headlines. It's me, Meredith Constant, and Amanda Mata, and we have our first ever guest host today.

[Reb Maisel]

Her name.

[Meredith Constant]

You've definitely seen her. You've definitely seen her upside down sunglasses. Her name is Reb Maisel. Reb is a practicing attorney in California, host of the Rebuttal podcast, author of her forthcoming book, the Book They Throw at you A Sarcastic Lawyer's Guide to the Unholy Chaos of our Legal System. God, no. Not actual legal advice and comedy. Lifestyle and legal content creator on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube her content aims to inspire young people, lawyers, and aspiring professionals of all ages around the world by proving you can be a successful young lawyer without losing your sense of humor, quick wit, passion, and a killer cat eye. Welcome to the show.

[Reb Maisel]

Thank you so much for having me. So elated to be here.

[Meredith Constant]

We almost really forgot to start the. The recording. We were just having so much fun.

[Reb Maisel]

I know. That's the problem. We just need. We just need to be. Have a reality show. You know, just follow us around and record our.

[Propel Representative]

Don't tempt Meredith with a good time.

[Meredith Constant]

Don't. Why would you do that to me? I am game for anything. Okay, I have to know. You're in California practicing. Where are you originally from?

[Reb Maisel]

Oh, my gosh. So many different places, which sounds like such a cop out, but I moved around a lot as a kid. But for people would be surprised. I. For the longest consecutive period of my life, I lived in a very small farm town in Illinois, which is coming. What? I used to have a Midwestern accent until it got bullied out of me very promptly when I moved to California when I was 16. So people, you know, in my comments, will. Will of course revert. Revert to, like, you know, the valley girl accent. And I'm like, yes, I am assimilating like chameleon that I am. Hell, yeah. Is that what I sound like? Perfect. Well, I'm not from there. I was born in Georgia, Atlanta. So there you go.

[Meredith Constant]

You just have, like, hard northeast energy.

[Reb Maisel]

You know, I think being. Honestly, moving around so much as a kid, I wouldn't have changed it for the world because it gives you so many other perspectives that, yeah, you might not agree with, but for sure, being someone who's absolutely developed their political and social views on the world and life and everything, you know, it's. It always comes from someone. When I talk to other people, you know, on the other side or whatever, I'm like, look, I've lived in towns where it was primarily blue collar workers, where it was primarily people who went straight from high school to the military. There's nothing wrong with those paths of life, but the people that you think are on your side are not, you know, and. And so I appreciate. You know, it also makes you really bitchy, for sure, you know, like, I don't have time. Listen, I got enough problems. I don't have time to talk to y'. All. I'm not offended by anything you guys say. Heard worse things from meaner, better people.

[Meredith Constant]

Good advice.

[Propel Representative]

Picking up on. It's like a New York attitude. I Think it is you got.

[Meredith Constant]

And I'm from New Jersey originally and, and Boston. So the fact that I don't have a more obnoxious accent is actually very impressive.

[Reb Maisel]

Yours is a very great media. I mean, listen, it's giving like the modern day version of what used to be the transatlantic, you know, accent in the 40s and stuff.

[Meredith Constant]

Goals.

[Reb Maisel]

Yeah, that's why, that's what your voice is to me. Like I would love to hear it in my Alexa.

[Meredith Constant]

So you're.

[Propel Representative]

I know you're from TikTok and I listen to the podcast, love it. But if I remember correctly, you went viral while you were an actively practicing attorney. So like, what was that like? Walk us through that journey. Because I was a STEM educator which like vastly different from being a public facing commentator on social media. So what was that like for you?

[Reb Maisel]

It was interesting because I didn't have TikTok in law school really. I really was just opening up the TikToks that my little sister would send me. She's six years younger than me, so she keeps me young, you know, and when. And when, you know, heard very much. Gen Z age group or the pioneer. The only reason why I had the app, because no one really my age at that time had the app, I was about 25, 26 when I graduated law school, was because I wanted to, you know, open up our TikToks. And she would, she was having me, she was working me like she was running the ship like the Navy. I was doing eight counts and our parents upstairs. But you know, I mean like spare bedroom. When during COVID Right.

[Meredith Constant]

Like you better square.

[Reb Maisel]

She's like, no, it's 5, 6, 7, 8. And I was like, you know, I mean like studying for the bar and like trying to like, you know, have my sister think I'm cool, you know, which is all older sisters typically want. Yeah. So you know, I was posting a few TikToks here and there just to as a creative outlet and then took the bar, started working pretty much immediately practicing full time. And then, you know, I posted a video like a few months after that, a few months into it and you know, yeah, it went viral. And you all, you always, you never think like, oh, this will be my career. I was like, yeah, I didn't spend all that time in law school to be doing the online shit, that's for sure. But you always think it's just like, oh, you're haha, 15 minutes. One time I had a video go viral, you know, story. And so as it continued and as I kept posting and my following got bigger. I just thought to myself, hey, this is cool. This is great. But if I had to delete it one day, I really, you know, it would be fine. I wouldn't care. But then, and I've said this before, it very much became obvious to me that it became something bigger than me with how much people have. Have reached out, thousands on thousands of people and lawyers and judges and people from all over different careers have. Have supported. Crazy. Yeah, they're the ones sending me transcripts half the time. And some of them, I'm like, I can't. I'm like. I'm like, thank you so much, Judge Warren. So this has, like, very personal identifying information in it that I can't. Like, certain transcripts, right? Like, of course I'm changing certain names. Of course I'm changing certain facts. Like, you know, it's not because I'm lying. It's because I, you know, got an A in ethics babes. Like, I know how this works. Like, I'm not. I'm not going to, you know, get in trouble on that front. And they're like, why use it? I'm like, okay, so I'm not. Oh, my God. Yeah, you'd be shocked. I mean, the most, like, literally, like, the, like, white, old, white men judges in a random district in Texas. Stunning. Reaching out to me and being like, huge fan. Love your stuff. Keep staying on there. I remember when women were allowed to wear pants in court, and it wasn't that long ago, right? And they're like, you need to keep. You need to keep doing what you're doing. This is awesome. And so, yes, it's been weird because it definitely is, like, a different part of my life, my professional life and social media and podcasts and book side of things, but I've really loved it that way because I feel like I really just wanted to keep it separate and just to, you know, be the lawyer that I can be in my own life. And then hopefully, you know, I become good at one and it makes me better at the other.

[Meredith Constant]

I love the idea that there's a bunch of judges, like, all over the United States, and a case comes in and they're like, oh, this shit is good. I'm sending this to Rev. I love that.

[Reb Maisel]

And it's funny because it's so, of course, right? They're probably children or grandchildren or office staff or, you know, like their clerks or their court reporters are sending them the videos or showing them to them, like, on their phones. And I, you know, so it's obvious right where. It's where they kind of have initially gotten the stuff. And to see them just, you know, like vehicling their, like court stop. Like, hey, can you DM Rob Basil really quick and tell her that we're proud of her. Send her a selfie. And it's like the cutest selfie photo of the court staff and then the judge. The what? Like in this case it was an older woman judge in her. In her robe that like, she's so excited and I'm like, I love you all so much. I'm so happy this brought us together.

[Meredith Constant]

There's so much more faith in our courts now that I've heard about this. You are the great unifier. You're bringing everyone together. Old white men in Texas, you're. You're rev for president. I'm calling it now.

[Propel Representative]

It's a community thing.

[Reb Maisel]

Honestly, Zachary, it's. I'm simply the messenger, truly. Because everyone who's been in this field, whether it be, you know, the paralegals, the court staff, you know, people who have maybe served on jury duty or been witnesses or God forbid, you know, been defendants, attorneys, everyone, we've all known that it's this fucking crazy and chaotic and insane and, and that it. It's always been funny. Like the legal humor didn't just start up just because I started putting the spotlight on it. It's very much one of those things where you get into this kind of, you know, exclusive, you know, very, very. What seemingly is like a very buttoned up club. And yes, it is, because it's more of a traditional. You know, very rarely do you see a lot of professions these days where it's like full suit and tie every day in the courtroom. You know, if that's the requirement. Speaking and in this language and your honor. And there's decorum and there's, you know, like it's. It's pretty much the exact equivalent of knowing what fork to use for your salad.

[Propel Representative]

In the UK they still have to wear the stupid wigs. Yeah.

[Reb Maisel]

My God. And like not even a lace front. It's just like a shaken go top and on. Like I. Listen, if I were in the UK and I was a solicitor, okay, barrister, whatever, whichever one. It was like I feel like I. Fringing out. I. You know, buffing out that edge a little bit. I don't know, I think you could.

[Meredith Constant]

Start like a whole cottage industry of making those more appealing.

[Reb Maisel]

Yeah. Maybe like a cute little like streak on the under, you know, like, like a hidden, like little like purple, like cute little streak on the underside that.

[Meredith Constant]

Get that Etsy shop started.

[Reb Maisel]

Then. That'll be my. That's my plan, Z. I got a lot of plans.

[Meredith Constant]

Okay, that's your next passive income stream.

[Reb Maisel]

Exactly. But yeah, no, like, once you get into this exclusive club, you look around and realize, oh, it's a shit show. Like, oh, this is a clown. This is a clown sho situation. I am simply one of the people, you know what I mean? Like, up here on doing an act myself. And we're keeping it together, though, man. We're fighting the good fight. Even if it's really funny and ridiculous sometimes.

[Meredith Constant]

Man, I love that.

[Propel Representative]

I love say to that.

[Meredith Constant]

Honestly, I love it. Yeah, like, she said it all. Amanda, do you want to introduce Rev to Bearing the Lead?

[Propel Representative]

Yeah. This is one of our content buckets that we do where we look at something absolutely crazy to come out of the British media and we either just make fun of it or we, like, actually look at the media moves going into the story.

[Meredith Constant]

Depends.

[Propel Representative]

So we wanted to talk about one with you today from the Sun. Feel free to laugh. Trump card. The real reason Donald Trump will never boot Harry and quote terrible Meghan out of us. And it's all because of King Charles, so.

[Meredith Constant]

Of course it is.

[Reb Maisel]

So many things have. So many wrong things have to be true in order for that statement. Yeah, listen.

[Propel Representative]

And it's predicated on Donald Trump quipping that he won't deport Prince Harry from the US because the former royal has, quote, got enough problems with his terrible wife. And I feel like that behind the scenes before he said it on Truth Social or whatever was supposed to be like, with his bitch wife. Something like, I already feel like we're getting a layer of filter there, but apparently the sun can reveal that the real reason Trump will never force the Sussexes out of the country is thanks to King Charles and his warm relationship with Donald Trump, as well as Trump's respect for the royal family. So how have you heard this story about Prince Harry and his, like, Visa and the Heritage foundation trying to deport him?

[Reb Maisel]

A little bit of all the headlines that have come up with the word Trump in it, like, that has been like the last thing on, you know, I mean, like, it's very like, okay.

[Meredith Constant]

So that, yeah, your facial reaction, which. Which you can see if you watch on Patreon or one week later on YouTube. I wish I could just have. Have acted out, like, spoken what your face was doing during reading that. And it really made me realize, wow, this stuff is ridiculous. And we read It a ton. And. But the thing is too, like, as a lawyer, not that you've worked with Harry and Meghan or anything like that. This is not legal advice, but thank you. Can he just kick Harry and Meghan out of the country? Is that a thing? I mean, can a president just.

[Propel Representative]

So the Heritage foundation, their, like, reasoning is that they suspect Harry lied on his visa application because he admitted to using illegal drugs, including cocaine, cannabis, and psychedelic mushrooms in spare. So the Heritage foundation has, like, subpoenaed or petitioned one or the other to release Harry's immigration records, including his visa application. In September, a judge denied that request, saying that he has, like, an expectation of privacy. But the like, the question remains, right? And now the question is, will Trump reverse that decision or pressure for that decision to be reversed?

[Reb Maisel]

There are so many moving parts that, like, the legal answer, honest to God, that I can, like, provide is the one that assumes we still have. Have, like, a system that, like, we're following, right. In theory, right. Everyone will always ask me exactly the same thing of like, well, can Trump do this? I'm like, the legal answer is no, but the top answer, you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, like everything with respect to the law is always like, no, someone can't, whether it be a judge or a president, whatever, they can't do that. If they tried to do it or did it, right? They, like, sent people to Prince Harry's or I think, like, worst case, like, cartoonish Looney Tunes example of like, agent, right? Like throwing. Throwing him on a plane and deporting him forcibly. The. The way that that is then saying, yeah, you can't do that is through the courts, right? Everything proven that you can't, you know, hey, like, you can't do is then if Prince Harry would, you know, file a suit or file a claim and then a. An immigration court or civil court, regardless of which route he goes, would say yes. So the president, like, president doesn't have the authority to do that in this. In this situation. Or they would say, you know, they had no basis and therefore, da, da, da. So, right. Like, in theory, a president cannot have. It has no power to overturn a judge's order. Right? In that sense, they have no power to hear a judge's order and go, no. You know, I mean, not a JD.

[Propel Representative]

Has anything to say about it.

[Reb Maisel]

Right? Let's like, right? This is just the. This is. Yeah, that's the thing too, is I think that one, I guess, like, comfort idea or what we can go home with is anyone can say whatever they want, right? Like, that's, that's just how it is. Anyone in power these days, especially, can say whatever the they want to say. Can we cuss on here? I'm sorry. Yes, say whatever the they want to say, right? And, and say we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that. The legal, the judicial branch, right, the legal side of things, the attorneys that this will all, you know, be going through and et cetera, et cetera, we are the ones who go, okay, well, good luck. Right? Like, good luck. It's going to take a long time, and you can't do that. And this is the process and da, da, da. But in the immediate right, aftermath of JD Dance, for example, saying a bunch of bullshit, it's. It's hard to kind of tell people, no, they can't, because in theory they could. But in terms of what's helping people, I guess people, at least in the legal field feel a little bit better is there are always channels that you literally have to go to. Right? And people who are boots on the ground, you know, challenging executive orders, challenging all of these extraneous actions and decisions, and going before judges that have every right to be there and are indeed qualified to do their jobs. And it is all inherently not political. Like, applying the law as it's written is not political. Knowing that the judicial branch has certain powers that are separate from the executive is. Is something that you can't, you know, you can't really question what happens in the worst case scenarios completely unrelated to the Trump administration, but in terms of, like, hostile takeovers of governments, right? Is those things go crumbling down. And so, of course, people respond and say, well, what if they just deleted every single judge ever? Well, right, that would, that would be right. Then, then we could come back. Then we could come back in this drawing board. But, like, for right fucking now, there's no way that Trump is. Would be involved specifically or personally with Prince Harry being deported. And the entire process that would be happening is all in relation to immigration status and paperwork and green cards and, and, you know, a million different things. And immigration attorneys who I respect and admire so much, that if the ones on the defense side, of course, know how complicated and complex our immigration system is. And, you know, when people say things to people like, oh, we'll just go through the legal. Do it legally, I'm like, they are like, you all have not a single clue in the goddamn world how broken our immigration system is. It is way more complex than simply a president, right? Saying, oh, we want to deport him. And also, like, if we are going to be deporting Prince Harry on a, you know, just because the President says, oh, you know, I got in a tip. Let's say he got in a tip with King Charles, right? He's like, oh, I decided he don't really like them anymore, so I'm going to deport his son. Then let's start supporting, support deporting some Elons. Because last I checked, he was born in South Africa, babes. Apartheid South Africa. Let's start going down the list, you know, I mean, like, like, if that's like, let's apply, let's apply this a little, a little bit more equally then.

[Meredith Constant]

One person said he, he smoked a doobie in his memoir. The other one is a foreign adversary wreaking havoc on the federal government. It feels a little different. I really Hope that in six months we don't return to this podcast in the 51st state of Canada and I'm in a bunker, like, discussing how, how the sun was right, and Prince Harry is currently, like, in Greenland, owned by America.

[Reb Maisel]

Right?

[Propel Representative]

Blue Land first Meredith, if we get our way. But no, the sun understands that Harry will not be deported under Trump because Trump said directly, I'll leave him alone. Because he thinks that Prince Harry going back to the UK would cause a bigger headache for Charles than having him here in the US doing whatever he's doing.

[Reb Maisel]

See, the legal equivalent of this to me, like, this is what he always said. Like, Trump is, you know, I don't really want to say he's good at anything, but one thing that he does that is very convincing to people who don't know anything or about how anything works. You know what I mean? Like, God, wouldn't that ignorance be bliss? I wish I sometimes had no thoughts in my head. Is he. He will say something that he'll be like, well, I would do this, but I'm going to. I'm going to. Not because X. So it sounds like he actually had the power to do that in the first place, right? Like him making these random claims about how he's going to outlaw this or delete this branch or right, deport this person, but I'm actually going to stay my hand. You're welcome. When in reality, he never had the ability to do that in the first place or he was told by somebody, hey, like, we, you quite literally can't do this. And this would be, you know, you can't do it. It's the exact equivalent of guy who's 35 who says would have gone pro if it weren't for my torn acl.

[Meredith Constant]

Oh, my God.

[Reb Maisel]

Like, oh, I would have gone pro, but I decided I wanted a life in finance. And you look at him like this, like, well, you wouldn't have. You couldn't have gone pro.

[Meredith Constant]

He's basically a real housewife, too. He's a dizzy bitch.

[Reb Maisel]

He's messy as hell. He's a messy bitch. He loves stirring the pot, right? He loves just. Just pitting people against each other. And his insults are really bizarre, right? Like, really bizarre and out there. If only he didn't decide to pursue, like, fascist dictatorship, he really could have eate down on Bravo. I feel.

[Meredith Constant]

I just want to give an idea. So Real Housewives of New York, though, this reboot is not great, okay? We're just. We're missing some oomph. What if Donald Trump returns to his native New York and we find a way. Maybe he starts dating Countess Luann and she comes back on. I think he could have revitalized that show.

[Reb Maisel]

I mean, I. I wish this. I wish I could say yes. I would be so down for it. Fifteen years ago, I would have been like, yes, a hundred percent right. This would have a down.

[Meredith Constant]

I just want to get him out of the.

[Reb Maisel]

I, you know what? Reality show. I would like to see him in lockup behind the scenes, right? Like, that's the kind. I think. I think we are at the point where Bravo is out of his future and A and E is Ru. Really, his right is really going to be his bread and butter. Like, I want to see what's going on with that first.

[Meredith Constant]

We're going to have to have you back on as. As more chaos ensues.

[Career Coach]

It'S time to come clean with yourself. Let's be completely honest. Are you happy with your job? Like, really happy? The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Far too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never wanted in the first place. But still, we stick it out and we give reasons. Like, what if the next move is even worse? I've already put years into this place. I can't afford to take a wrong step. And maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone kind of miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you actually want to be your coach helps you get clear on your goals, create a plan, build your confidence and keeps you accountable along the way. So don't leave. Leave your career to chance. Take action and own your future with a professional coach in your corner. Go to Strawberry Me Career to claim a special offer. That's Strawberry Me Career Cash Flow Crunch.

[On Deck Representative]

On Deck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $100,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply [e-mail] funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by On Deck or Celtic Bank. On Deck does not lend to North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

[Reb Maisel]

Meghan Markle's trademark case, right? Oh my God, Honestly, we have time to talk about it for like 10 minutes.

[Meredith Constant]

No, we.

[Reb Maisel]

As someone who has been a trademark attorney a United States, like I have done trademark cases. I've done trademark applications for big companies, for small companies. I've done patent litigation. Trademark litigation, right. Like big ass companies suing my right company for trademark infringement or we're renewing something or we have someone challenging our renewal. When I tell you as just a personal opinion IP intellectual property litigation, that shit is not as fucking dramatic as they're making it fucking seem. But the headlines are saying, which makes me angry. Angry, angry is oh, Meghan Markle's. The uspto, the US Patent Trademark Organization rejected Meghan Markle's trademark application for American Riviera Orchard. They rejected it. She, you know, had to scramble to ask for more time. She had to tweak it. And it's like the most dramatic fucking roundup. And I'm like, okay, first of all, USPTO has not rejected her applications in the regular sense. All they've done is say, hey, we're not going to move forward with the attempted registration until you. Or like her lawyers make certain amendments with the attempted registration and you know, to the application and like pay the necessary fees. When I tell you the way that that works, way you file and the way that like the USPTO like responds is the most like generic. Like it's like a sample document that is sent. Hello, this is the uspto. There's an issue with your application. You need to, it's not like a literal, there's no judges opinion in it, right? There's no like flair. There's no like commentary. It is literally the most automated ass surveys. It's the quite literal. It's the equivalent of going to the fucking DMV do, I mean, going online thing, though. It's.

[Meredith Constant]

It's. If you can position Meghan Markle as someone who is always screwing up, always lying, always getting into trouble, then you can take these nine reaching a little too far. You know, for example, our 12 foundation had an issue where something happened. Where they were. I forget what it was, but they were marked as the link on something. It was something. Yeah, you know, paperwork.

[Reb Maisel]

It's autumn. It's like this automated thing. It doesn't mean that her attorneys are negligent or there's malpractice or like Megan herself is trying to be duplicitous in none of the grounds cited in the uspto. It's called an office action, like capital O, capital A. I've gotten those letters before on behalf of my clients. Right. It's just normal stuff. None of those grounds are fatal to her attempt to register the bart. And they can all be resolved fairly easily. None of the claims, right? Or none of the grounds that the USPTO is saying, hey, like, we can accept it at this time, please fix these things. They're not substantive. Meaning, like, none of those issues require.

[Propel Representative]

It's not qualitative.

[Reb Maisel]

Yes, yes, exactly. None of them require arguments in front of, like a trademark examiner, for example. All of them are like, hey, you forgot to hit the space bar after you hit enter. It's those types of issues that happen all the time. And also. So, Gabe, that's first.

[Meredith Constant]

So is ar. Is ARO not dead then, is what you're saying?

[Reb Maisel]

No, not necessarily. Because it's just helpful to understand that federal registration, trademark registration is accomplished by identifying the specific classes of goods and services. Goods or services for which your mark will be used. We call these international classes, and each one encompasses certain types of goods and services. If an applicant's trademark. So an applicant, meaning Meghan Markle, her attorney, you know, on behalf of her. Her trademark, which she's applying, saying, hey, you know, I would like to. This trademark, if it's going to be used on, say, cars and dishwashers, they will want to identify at least two international classes on their application. Class 12 vehicles and Class 11 sanitary apparatuses. There are all of these different class. They all write. They're all different numbers. It's a big bank. And you select which one does mine fall under to Meghan Markle's applications. Most of these issues are non substantive. Like if you select the wrong class, there are clerical errors, et cetera. For instance, the examiner said that she needs to basically shore up, power up her, her identification of goods because some of the terms used are too broad and may involve goods that belong to multiple different international classes. This is a simple fix. Okay. The only substantive issue that may come into play is because basically she may want to argue partial refusal for being primarily geographically descriptive.

[Meredith Constant]

I've heard, yes.

[Reb Maisel]

So basically the American Riviera orchard brand is apparently going to offer a wide variety of goods and services, like 14 different international classes. And one of those is food items related to jam.

[Propel Representative]

And that makes sense then because Megan said in her video, I didn't put these two together. She said it hemmed her in. It literally did. Then if they're saying the trademark could only be based on geographic location with the name Aro.

[Reb Maisel]

Well, right, well, with respect to Aro, Right. The reason why the examiner is going to say, hey, like this might be an issue is only if the examiner says, hey, like the American Riviera is actually a location.

[Propel Representative]

Right.

[Reb Maisel]

And so the word orchard is commonly understood to be a place where you might find dried fruit. So American Riviera orchard isn't distinct to Markle's business. And any fruit peddler from Santa Barbara.

[Propel Representative]

Could be able to be able to.

[Reb Maisel]

Identify themselves as someone who's selling from American Riviera. Or do you see, like, does that.

[Meredith Constant]

Make all about jam?

[Reb Maisel]

It's not Markle related issues. It's the same way as someone wanted to name their company, like. Right. The Los Angeles Orchard. If there are orchards that are literally Los Angeles orchards, then there may be issues. Right. With respect to like. Okay, well that doesn't, that shouldn't mean that like every orchard in L. A can't say that their orchard is Los Angeles.

[Meredith Constant]

Have you seen the, with the, the small mayor, the new one as with the crest of it all. What leg do they have to stand on in terms of a logo looking too close to a coat of arms in a small town in Mallorca, which it kind of doesn't look like it.

[Reb Maisel]

That's like a completely separate. Oh, yeah. Okay. Instead of just retrieving my obligation for what you're doing now, it's like, okay, like, what does that look like? Anyone upon anyone, including a little town in Mallorca and anyone with like a little business that's small, but they got their triple can can challenge a trademarks application that is also super boring and generic. It's literally like a little, like, form you fill out and you're like, hi, we want to challenge you. Like Disney, for example, all these big companies have on retainer, all these trademark attorneys and these basically automated things where they get every Monday, hey, these are the new applications that were filed. And they go, are any of them looking like Disney's? Oh, this one kind of does. Do we want to challenge it? Sure. Okay, click challenge.

[Meredith Constant]

How do you determine if it's too similar?

[Reb Maisel]

It's. This is like going so far down the legal analysis line of complicated, complex trademark stuff. It's not a cut and dry. Right. System of like, yes, yes, it's similar. Up. Okay, we're out. They consider not only the similarity of the logo or the shape or the thing that you're trying to trademark. They also take into account the likelihood of confusion. So if you write, so, for example, if you wanted to sell. And I'm just making this up because I'm not 100% sure, like, how. What exactly the crest would be related to totally. If you were just selling jams, but there was someone who was selling, I don't know, foot. Feet. Feet pitch.

[Meredith Constant]

They're selling feet. Organs.

[Propel Representative]

Foot cream.

[Reb Maisel]

Organs illegally on the black market. Okay, so let's say foot cream. Okay, Someone's selling foot cream and bum fuck wherever. All right, that has nothing to do with jam. Not edible. Nothing to do with that type of good. That, yes. Won't necessarily mean that for sure. They can have kind of a very similar type of crest. But it plays into the analysis of, okay, if consumers know damn well that these two things are not the same, then we might be able to allow. Right. The other trademark to happen. That's why, like McDonald's, for example, they don't have a monopoly or an oligarch on the word McDonald. Like, there can be other businesses that are like the McDonald, like moisturizer.

[Meredith Constant]

There's a man that has a farm. He has a farm and he has a whole song.

[Reb Maisel]

So you see how, like, it depends on the market. It depends on exactly what type of goods this crest is being used for. It could very well be that, right? It means that, hey, you can't use that crest or something, right? Because the examiner, the trademark examiner is like, hey, you know, like, weight of confusion. You can't use it. You just change it, right? Like, you just go, oh, okay, never mind and change the fucking crest. Or. Or you do. It's not like they're like, you can never now apply for a crest. People get their shit struck down all the time or challenge all the time. And then they have to redo. Not because they fucked up, but because think about how many trademarks there are out there, right? In order to actively keep your trademark, you have to be on the horn and be challenging other people who are similar. And it is so not dramatic. It is so like, hey, you. Like, you can't do this trademark. Sorry. And they're like, okay, here's another one. Okay, perfect. And the headlines are like, stupid Meghan trying to. I'm like, can we be fucking trademark? I'm going to be honest. Like, I didn't like it. I thought it was so boring. I was bored as fuck doing trademark stuff. It's boring.

[Propel Representative]

I mean, it's. It's just a great way for people to signal they have never done anything interesting in their life. If they never. This is a big deal. And like, that Megan is such a screw up. So they're telling them.

[Reb Maisel]

They're like, she asked for an extension. Can you believe it? I go, if I had a dollar.

[Propel Representative]

For every partnership Netflix, are you kidding?

[Reb Maisel]

I'm like, every time I ask for an extension, whether it be a partnership or a trademark application, as an attorney on behalf of someone else, I'd be a billionaire by now. That is not weird. People are so annoying.

[Meredith Constant]

If you can make the mundane seem nefarious to people who are not going to look into it any further and it confirms their preconceived notions of this person, then they're just gonna go. They're gonna go with it. They're gonna run with it. And suddenly everyone's a trademark expert on Twitter.

[Reb Maisel]

Suddenly people, right, who are not just, like, fans of Meghan Markle, whatever, but who are just. I don't know how to. Maybe they are right. I don't know enough about trademark stuff. Maybe they are right that it is weird that she's doing all this trademark stuff. Now you have the tools and information baseline to say, that's bullshit and this is the most normal shit ever. Be for real.

[Meredith Constant]

Doesn't sell papers, though.

[Propel Representative]

That was legal advice.

[Reb Maisel]

Yep.

[Meredith Constant]

Not legal advice. Oh, my God. Yeah. No, the Megan stuff is wild.

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[Meredith Constant]

So I think just in terms of obviously, democracy is on our, on our minds, small D democracy. And one of the things that we try to do on here is just talk about what's going on in media. And because of the influx of insanity that's happening every hour, it's a new thing. It gives whiplash. There's no real way to describe the cluster that is our federal government at the moment. But are there any stories or legal cases in particular that you're keeping your eye on? You're like, this is. These are the ones that are really keeping me up at night.

[Reb Maisel]

I mean, every new executive order is, you know, hundreds at this point, which isn't necessarily an outlier with respect to presidents. Right. Like, they sign executive orders, especially in the beginning. It's not necessarily because they believe every executive order is going to stay in place. That's what the judges are for. Okay. The courts are for. But they do it for kind of that political leverage and that political kind of posturing of saying, look, I'm doing what I said, you know, I was going to try to do. But unfortunately for a lot of people in this country, every new one is like the. Is like. Feels like a mad libs, right? Of like just random horrible words that. This is why I'm citing it. This sounds perfect. Obviously, a lot of the more extreme ones, you know, him intending to send a bunch of immigrants, genuinely immigrants. Because if you know anything about the law, there is no such thing as illegal. Kind of like being an illegal immigrant. Like that status doesn't actually exist is actually a Civil violation. It's not a criminal violation in the context of, like, you know, immigration court type of stuff. It's not literally something that would get you thrown in prison, but of course, right. Everyone on Trump's campus, it's not sexy. Yeah, he doesn't think. That doesn't sound great. Right? Him, him and him signing executive orders to send, you know, 30,000 people to Guantanamo, which already. I mean, I did an entire podcast episode on why Guantanamo itself was horrific. We weren't housing, essentially terrorists there. We were housing, like, regular people who were sold to the US There from the Middle east and able to kind of keep them in this legal black hole on this island. It was initially built for 780 people. So, like, 30,000, like, where already the numbers, if you want to just talk numbers, like, there's just no way to do it. And also his executive orders banding transgender people from the military, as if we don't have enough problems going on. You know, in that case, I think, of course, right. All of these other executive orders in relation to women's reproductive health, and there being two genders, like, the price of eggs is still high. I mean, nothing like Social Security is being cut, Medicaid's being cut, Medicare is being cut, all workers are being fired. Nothing. Right. Nothing really great coming out of it. So, of course it's difficult as an attorney to. To really. I'm like, what. What case are you keeping an eye on? I'm like, everything that comes up, I just read it when I can. Right? That's the point. Exactly. Exactly. Flood the zone. So I will say that one case that's progressing, and when I say case, I mean that in order to challenge an executive order, when Trump is making these executive orders, which he can sign, even if they are, by their words, unconstitutional, even if he doesn't have the power to do them. Right. Exercise that power the way that the checks and balances are supposed to work. When we go back to, like, our civics courses in eighth grade, when we're learning about the three branches of government, the way that those balances are, you know, those checks are checked, is that someone will file a lawsuit challenging the executive order and. Or challenging the exercise of power, saying, yeah, these are the legal, constitutional, or otherwise reasons why this executive order is invalid and should be struck down, and a court should say, no, you can't do this. And so there are hundreds of these ongoing lawsuits happening every day right now. But also more and more are added every day. There are. That's what the ACLU for example, was they've been here and they're not going anywhere. There have. There are so many, not just the aclu, so many nonprofit legal organizations that were built exactly for this scenario. They were built to be the people who are like, we. We have this right. We're not waiting around for regular citizens to pull up. Lawyers are the last line of defense. Absolutely. But also our first. So the first people on the ground and the last one off, Literally. So. So one of these lawsuits, the way they work is, you know, people who are impacted or, you know, will be impacted by this executive order are put together, and they file a lawsuit seeking to stop the executive order. And during the disposition of a lawsuit like that, Right. When you like, the substantive arguments are made and these legal claims, and it might take a long time, they request something called a preliminary injunction to be put in place until the final disposition of the lawsuit happens. So until a judge finally decides on the efficacy of the executive order, this preliminary injunction in these cases means, hey, we want for a judge to say, you cannot enforce this executive order until we figure this shit out. Right. Until we can see if you can even do this yet. There's a lot of legalese involved. But in order to secure a preliminary injunction, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to win the case on the plaintiff side. It means that, oh, you have enough to say that it's more likely than not that your claims look good. Right? It's looking good. So we will grant this preliminary injunction and, you know, see how this plays out. And so what's happening right now is the executive order Trump signed banning transgender people from the military is just so out there, numbers wise. Right. Because right now in the United states, there are 1.3 million active service members. Less than 1% of our military is transgender. So that means around what basically studies are guessing is around 6,000. Okay. Confirmed. But of course, there are people who don't self report for obvious reasons. So the high number we think is maybe 15,000. So let's just assume it's 15,000. Okay. Every single one of those people have gone through every physical and mental examination and test. They have absolutely passed the normal guardrails that are in place for individuals who want to be in the military. There are, of course, a bunch of people or conditions or statuses that aren't allowed into the military for reasons. Right. For example, certain people with certain. Eye conditions. Ear conditions. Exactly. Certain people who have diabetes that can't really be managed very well, and they require insulin every single day. They may not be able to enlist, or often they let them enlist, but they're just non deployable, right? I mean, people who are actually in the military, no matter how red they vote, I kid you not, are like, yeah, this is the dumbest fucking executive order ever. Because none of this has any bearing on whether they can do the damn job. The judge in this case I love, she had a quote that basically asked one of, you know, the Trump attorneys, right? People are calling them Trump attorneys. They're the Department of Justice attorneys that Trump appointed, right? So like the attorneys that just sell, sold out, in my opinion, personal opinion, they sold the fuck out. And they're not great. They're all good attorneys, which is even better for me because it's like my super bowl, right? I'm popping popcorn and listening to the worst fucking. I'm like, you didn't even prep for this fucking hearing, bitch. Come on. Like, at least try. These legal arguments are assigned, but anyways, the judge looked at them and said, well, you have to agree that when you're in a foxhole, right, with somebody, as in the trenches with somebody, you're not caring about what their gender identity is, are you? And the attorney was basically forced into a corner to say, that would be not. That would not be my primary concern. No, duh. Like, duh. Like, duh. So basically what's happening is there was a hearing last week on this preliminary injunction that these. There were six service members who filed, I believe seven, six to eight, I believe. I'm not sure if I have that number right, but six service members who are presently transgender who are actively in the military. And mind you too, those who are trans who are in the military, the number is so small in our population in America, but also military, in the military itself, that if you look at them, most of them are like highly decorated. They're fantastic at their job. They absolutely ate the fuck down when it comes to being just incredible parts of our military. Genuinely, you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, no, like, they're not. This isn't a DEI quote unquote hire that you guys are alleging started.

[Meredith Constant]

We have a hard enough time just recruiting people into the military. It's like, why are you even trying to get rid of.

[Reb Maisel]

And in the last 10 years, they have been desperate for rising numbers. For that reason. They have basically initiated all of these new waivers, they call them, for certain medical conditions that, what used to be things that wouldn't allow you to enlist. They're like, it's fine now. We don't care. Please, please. They're banging on their knees for people to enlist and but if you had top surgery, right?

[Meredith Constant]

And then you want to now kick.

[Reb Maisel]

People out like okay, but regardless, mind you, less than 2% of those who are enlisted, so those who are serving, so let's say the high numbers 15,000, but it's probably less, okay? It's probably less. Less than 2% of those individuals ever seek actual gender reassignment surgery. The rest of them, like they, you don't have to as a trans person, existing as a trans person. It does not mean that you have to seek hormone treatment or get gender reassignment surgery. But even if they did, on the same vein, I'm like, hey, the government, okay, as in like va, right? Like, like military benefits. If people are arguing, well we don't want the military have to pay for that shit. The military pays for breast augmentation. If you report that that would impact your self esteem. The military pays billion with a B dollars per year for Viagra.

[Meredith Constant]

I knew this thing.

[Reb Maisel]

This is not about cost because these surgeries are not expensive. When you, when you compare it to actual the rest, right? Of the medical conditions that this is my thing we absolutely can pay for, right? I'm like, listen, we, we can spend 87 million on a jet that we're going to dump into the ocean because someone hit the wrong button. And also if we're talking about costs, which is that's what's not what it's about at all. It is less expensive to invest in someone who's already trained, who's already here, who's already fantastic and then decides when they are already in. The military has already proven themselves who are already passing all of these constant rate evaluations and reevaluations for mental right depression, suicide, aviations. Like people are saying, well, trans people commit suicide at a higher rate. Well, first of all, trans people commit suicide at a higher rate. If those trans people are those who don't have support either physically or societally, but then overall, right, they do have a higher rate of suicide. So do men. So do veterans, military service members in general have a high rate of suicide? That is the number one cause of death right now is suicide or accidental discharge of a weapon accident. But number one is suicide. So really right, that that doesn't have anything to do with it because all of them have to pass these mental evals anyway. So like they are having to, you.

[Propel Representative]

Know, be checked for this making too much sense.

[Reb Maisel]

I'm like, it literally is the same thing in Any business, they'll tell you, does it cost more to keep someone and invest in someone, train someone, whatever, or just fire them and hire a new person? It's triple the cost, triple the cost to find someone else to replace them. So just pay for their top shirt or these couple thousand people, maybe a couple hundred, right, like it doesn't fucking matter.

[Meredith Constant]

But that's the thing though, is that it's not so much about cost savings as it is optics. Because even culture, you know, 20, 20 year olds breaking the government, their numbers are off. They really haven't saved anything significant. In fact they've just broken more. And that's really, it's culture wars too. Trans people are really are not have been made the boogeyman because there are not many of them. And because you can write out these little wins. Do you think though, with the Trump administration on some level, do they know that these executive orders will be challenged? Are they hoping things make it up the courts, like the Dobbs decision to the Supreme Court. And that will be kind of the final test of, of if the courts are going to hold against this assault on democracy.

[Reb Maisel]

So the, like, the executive orders, they are aware that all of them are going to be challenged. You know, like that's why, you know, they have these, the DOJ lawyers who are pulling up to court, like in that, in that hearing for the trans ban. I mean the essential outcome of this initial preliminary injunction hearing was the DOJ was, was arguing like they were at a fucking press conference and the judge was genuinely applying like the proper law for equal protection challenges and saying you're like basically completely dog walking this, this attorney, not for political reasons. She was really like, get your shit together. Like you're wrong, wrong, wrong. And you know, and so in reality, of course they know that these are going to be challenged. And you know the way that it would go all the way up to the Supreme Court. I mean, yeah, in theory, like any of these challenges could go all the way up. Up the amount of time that it takes for that to happen. For like example, like the ban on transgender people in the military. If this judge grants this preliminary injunction doesn't mean that the case is over, doesn't mean that the case has been won by either side. It means that you cannot. And this has happened in other cases as well. This has happened with respect to usaid, like USA Aid, Trump, immediately federal funds freeze. Yes, there has been there like if you basically there are so many ongoing lawsuits where like the one of the, they're all different judges to all different federal judges all over the, all over the country. One of them said, okay, no, you. They did grant the injunction. Another one granted another induction, another one denied it, but said more time if that, you know, the DOJ wanted to continuously appeal all of these, you know, rulings, etc. They would have to appeal and then the circuit court would have to say yes or say no. And then from the circuit board, they would have to then from there, if it's federal court appealed to the yes, Supreme Court is the next bar. But it takes so long for those things to happen and for you to be able to even appeal something like that. Because a preliminary injunction doesn't mean the case is over and you typically can't appeal unless your case is right, you have the final disposition, or people will be appealing within with every, you know, little order that a judge made. There are so many moving parts whether that are legal that respect all of this stuff. If they are genuinely banking on all of these going to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court ruling in their favor every single time, then like, you know, what a strategy. Like what a strategy that takes a really long time and it is bizarre. But also, you know, you can kind of tell that some of these executive orders, because Trump is seeing that all of these judges are regardless of who appointed them, we got Bush appointees, we got Reagan appointees, we have Obama appointees, we have anyone appointees. Because it used to be in this country where judges would be appointed right for their. Right, okay, yeah, they're slightly red leaning or blue leaning or whatever, no matter what, because it's a life term on the federal bench. They always end up going more to the middle anyway with their decisions. Because the law is inherently, it's like.

[Propel Representative]

Here where I live, the judges on the ballot can't even like campaign. You just can only say you're recommended by the bar association. It's not supposed to be political.

[Reb Maisel]

Right? Those are state. Yes, State court judges. Yes, exactly, exactly. And so with these, Trump issued an executive order after he's seeing that all of these federal judges from either side of the political spectrum are being like, yeah, they're granting these preliminary injunctions because the birthright citizenship one, for example, the executive order that said, oh, that was birthright citizenship work. I'm going to take out of the Constitution. Like it is plainly there, right there. All of the press were like, can you believe a Reagan appointee judge was basically looked at this attorney and said, how can you sit here as a member of the bar and even argue this genuinely like, be fucking for real. Because there's no political. This is a yes or no question. And hey, like, we can't amend the Constitution off of a strike of a pen, babes. That requires what? I think it's like three, four, yeah, two thirds majority of all the states. You know, I mean, like, what the. So, so Trump after that, that has been like, okay, he issued an executive order saying that the judicial branch doesn't have the power to decide what the executive branch is doing and whether.

[Propel Representative]

Which also is in the Constitution, right?

[Reb Maisel]

Which is like a Marbury versus Madison in 1803. 1804, 1803. Like the Supreme Court literally said in the 18. Whatever said. Yeah. So it is actually the absolute and really exciting, amazing power for the judicial branch to say emphatically what the law means. That is our job. We tell you what the law means.

[Propel Representative]

People versus in the law.

[Meredith Constant]

Kind of sounds like from what you're telling, I mean, again, there's a lot of bad, but there's also, you know, some signs of the injunctions, which. And there's humor as well. There's humor because otherwise we would just cry. And that's no fun.

[Propel Representative]

Right.

[Meredith Constant]

Might as well make it funny. But what, you know, as a lawyer, what are you seeing that gives you, like, even just like a little, like a little morsel, a little 100 calorie pack of.

[Reb Maisel]

Of hope that honest to God, being in this field can be devastating. As an attorney, you know, there are a lot of lawyers and a lot of judges who are, who are and will be on the wrong side of history, not because I agree with them or disagree with them politically, but because, you know, precedent should stand and the way that we've applied the law should stand, and the way that this country runs in terms of, you know, democracy and the foundations and the principles of that should. Should stand and. And the way that we fight for it, absolutely, as attorneys, in the same vein, makes me so proud to be in this field because there are lawyers on the ground, right. Filing these lawsuits and doing excellent lawyering. I mean, incredible work. And also all of the nonprofit organizations who are nonprofit legal organizations, for example, the Acacia center for justice, they basically provide pro bono legal services to unaccompanied minor children who are in immigration court because immigration court is considered a civil proceeding. And so they do not have the constitutional right to an attorney. And so you have five, six, seven year olds having to sit up in a courtroom. It's genuinely sickening and horrifying to see with translators, as a very adult prosecutor and an adult judge is basically trying to get them to speak for themselves. And they're sitting there like, I don't know. You write like they're 5 and 6 and 7. No matter what political affiliation you have, no matter what you believe about asylum and immigration in this country, that is the. And mind you, that is the legal way that they have to go through this. That is the legal process that they have to take. Take. So in this country, if we really are the land of the free, we absolutely should be providing people with. With attorneys the same way that we do in a criminal court. If you're charged with a crime, right. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you, period. That's a right. And no matter if you're a citizen or not, that should be a right. And so the Acacia center for justice helps. They're a nonprofit organization. They help provide these pro bono attorneys for these children. And I did an entire episode on Unaccompanied minors in court on my podcast. They. I had two of these attorneys come on. They have incredible stories and talk about just how all of these individuals, especially children, absolutely do have the right to asylum under our laws. Like, under our laws, they qualify and they should have legal representation, someone fighting for them. And one of Trump's executive orders ultimately cut a lot of their funding, actually last week. And so it basically means a stop work order. So, meaning, like, even if they have hearings the next day or in a week for children that they can't miss, suddenly, right? The government saying you need to stop and you can't move. Well, of course, ethically, as an. My ethical obligation as an attorney is, well, I'm pulling up, right? Like, I can't. Like, ethically, I'm not going to not show up to this hearing and all of their posts and everything, if you want, guys want to follow them on social media. What makes me so proud and happy and gives me, you know, such a light in my life is to see all these people swarming to donate because it's not going into some fund. It's absolutely going directly to legal services, directly to filing fees, directly to ensure these attorneys can show up to court that day and argue their cases and just have to focus on the law and not about the funding and all of that. And no matter what, no matter what executive order is happening, all of those nonprofits, just like Acacia, but just like so many others that work for reproductive health rights, for immigration rights, for trans rights, for LGBT rights, all of them are going to still be here and still be Boots on the ground in court, making his life a living fucking hell when it comes to wanting to circumvent the Constitution. And it doesn't matter what he says, the judicial branch will still be there doing it. What it needs to do. And that's what makes me feel better about life, is that honest to God, like, there's going to be someone in an ill fitting suit in court eating the fuck out of this motion, chewing the fuck out of these DOJ attorneys. Post a video the other day, a trans, like literally reading a transcript from that hearing completely objectively, like, if you want to go, you know, apolitical or whatever, it is funny as. Like, it's funny as. Because this attorney is just like, I don't have an answer for you. The judge is saying, no, you do have an answer. You just don't want to say it. Like, literally just no holds barred. It's exactly how judges normally are. They don't take this. They're like, I'm sure you're not in a press conference, babe. Like, we're talking about the law here.

[Meredith Constant]

What part of that, about the law here? I love that. And what we'll do is we'll make sure to link to the organizations that you've brought up so people can share and donate and also obviously to where people can find you. On Tick Tock book coming out in November.

[Reb Maisel]

We're thinking about a November 11th release date. I'm not allowed to share the COVID yet. There's all these rules related to it. But yeah, it's, it'll be great and it'll. Hopefully it'll be funny. Right? Like, we want to give people some humor, some love, some light. And also you'll learn something about your rights, the baseline. I think everyone, everyone should know better what should have been taught in school. Right?

[Meredith Constant]

I love that. And so let's end on a fun, light note. You were talking about ill fitting suits, which is a tragedy. Just like last season. Prada shoes, as Elle woods learned. So, Amanda, as our fashionista, what do you want to ask Rob?

[Reb Maisel]

Excuse me, are. Amanda. Are you kidding? You always have the cutest stuff.

[Meredith Constant]

Get out of here.

[Propel Representative]

Yeah, I was curious. I don't go to many courtrooms, but what are the girls wearing if you're giving closing arguments? Like, what, is there an item? Is there a look? Is there a trend that your friends are picking up on as, as female.

[Reb Maisel]

Attorneys and as attorneys in general? We have a very small number of colors, right. That we can really wear. Like, it's very much like, like in Court, you do, they tell you, like, all right, black, gray, navy, maybe a dark brown if you want to go crazy. Plain, plain color undershirt. Like, this is if you're a trial or. Right. Going to the court all the time. So of course, right, you don't want. Because you want your words to be louder than your outfit, right? You want your words to sink in. You want your layering to sink in. And if your outfit is loud as fuck, even if it looks great, it's going to detract.

[Meredith Constant]

Someone's got to tell Elle woods this, right? I know.

[Propel Representative]

Or the real life attorney Martinez, who is giving out.

[Reb Maisel]

But that's the thing, is that's the default. You can absolutely be an attorney and wear amazing, incredible pink tailored suits in court, without a doubt. Like, that's no Tino shade. It's just the default for it. Right. I don't want to tell everyone, hey, like, everyone should be doing that. Like, there's definitely, you know, certain situations where you might want to turn it down just for normal reasons, not misogynistic reasons of men and women. But I will say, regardless of what color I'm wearing in court, I like, I'm more of like, I feel like I'm like the dark Elwoods. Like, I'm white, right?

[Meredith Constant]

Duh.

[Reb Maisel]

But like, I feel like I would be repping like an all black situation always. I love an all black moment. I feel like in a assassin, I want to feel like an attorney assassin in court with like, I always am wearing a three inch heel. Like, regardless what I do love that is not just coming back. It's been coming back for a while. But I love a fudgeing shoulder pad, man. I love the 80s, you know, like the 80s suits, shoulder pads. Like, even attorney movies that you see from that time period with the girlies were rocking these. These big, huge, beautiful, lovely 80 shoulder pads with big hair. I just love that belt. Yes. And the belt. And now, like, I've a lot of my more recent suits that I've gotten and acquired and have even worn, you know, in court. It's not a huge shoulder pad, but I just think it looks sharp and fresh and gives you personality, even if the rest of you is a little bit muted. I love a shoulder pad moment. And then I wear it.

[Meredith Constant]

I'm creating a silhouette. Okay. I'm giving you what you're asking for. I.

[Reb Maisel]

Yes.

[Meredith Constant]

I love that you can still look stylish and be an assassin in court. Do you always have the. The cat eye? Is the cat eye?

[Reb Maisel]

Yeah, yeah. I Mean, it's typically right. Like, normally, like, if I'm doing a video.

[Meredith Constant]

How you do that?

[Reb Maisel]

Yeah, it's on my Tik Tok profile. There's a playlist on the top of my page that says eyeliner tutorial. Like, eyeliner toot. Because people and I, you know, it's really. I know people always say it's like, it's so easy. It really is easy once I do.

[Propel Representative]

It so many times. It's muscle memory.

[Reb Maisel]

Exactly. And, you know, Meredith's like, what?

[Meredith Constant]

I didn't go to that. I missed that day in girl school.

[Reb Maisel]

Super fair. And I didn't. You know, it's funny, I didn't start doing it until halfway through practice, like, maybe a year into being on Tick Tock. It was like, because I got, like, a free sample liquid eyeliner with, like, a Sephora purchase, and I thought, oh, let me try this. And I tried it, and here we are. Right? Here we are. It's your staple. But, yeah, like, I just. Anything that makes you feel like you're put together, not as they're like, feel good. Because, like, I could have no makeup on and still slay any of the. These. Any of these. And you know what I mean? Like, it's like, come on now.

[Meredith Constant]

Yeah, but never. I would never.

[Reb Maisel]

But, like, you know, it's just the little things that we do to make you feel like you're complete. Like, you finally put down your. Your shield over your head. You're like, all right, now we run into battle girlies. Like, all right, put it on. We're ready to go.

[Propel Representative]

Probably what Kate Middleton does with her pantsuits. It's like her work Persona, honestly.

[Reb Maisel]

And I'm going to be honest, just they're tailored to a T. I mean, usually, yeah, man. But, you know, that's why, too, having the money to have, like, a consistent tailor. Because even if you're buying designers, even if you have money, I mean, you know the guy on Twitter who. Like the menswear guy on Twitter, you know, his. His account is just a testimony to. Money doesn't buy good style. And also, money doesn't buy a good fit. You can buy McQueen, Gucci, Dior, whatever, but you need. Your body is not going to fit into a normal size for anyone. Right? Like, I'm a different size in every brand. It depends on the day. It depends on, you know, what they're going for. To have the money to start getting your stuff tailored is where you've made it, in my opinion, right?

[Meredith Constant]

In tailoring, Like, I'm like, yes, Taylor.

[Reb Maisel]

You could honestly not even pay that much money to have tailored an H and M suit or anything. You look amazing. And then, you know, so many good tips today.

[Meredith Constant]

I feel a little better and I'm ready to go try some cat eyeliner. This so I feel like I'm feeling very brave. Thank you so much for joining us. This was wonderful.

[Reb Maisel]

They're so great.

[Meredith Constant]

We will have everything in the show, notes, every place that you can find Reb all over the Internet and of course where you can find us. And sign up for our Patreon and leave a little Apple review. We do love those, especially when they're nice. And other than that, we will see you next time. Thank you, Rev.

[Reb Maisel]

You're welcome. Bye, guys.

[Meredith Constant]

Bye.

[Amanda Mata]

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[Reb Maisel]

Beth, you're in charge of ordering the tacos for the meeting today. Yeah, I'm not going to order the tacos. Uh, what? I'm going to Easy Cater the tacos. With EasyCater, you can order from a.

[Meredith Constant]

Huge variety of restaurants, track access, expenses and save time.

[Career Coach]

Nice.

[Reb Maisel]

Oh, by the way, you're emailing the meeting notes, right? No, I'm going to Easy Mail them.

[Career Coach]

Where's my music?

[Reb Maisel]

Sorry, Ben, there's no Easy Cater for that. Easycater. The easy way to order food for work. Order now.

[Career Coach]

@Easycator.Com not all meals are created equal.

[Reb Maisel]

For instance, breakfast has a spicy egg.

[Career Coach]

McMuffin for a limited time and lunch does it McDonald's breakfast.