Second Drink: The Duel

Summary

Office Ladies – "Second Drink: The Duel" (June 1, 2026)

Hosts: Jenna Fischer & Angela Kinsey
Episode: Revisit of "The Duel" (The Office S5E12)

---

Episode Overview

In this lively "Second Drink" episode, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey revisit Season 5’s “The Duel”, a fan-favorite episode of The Office where Andy and Dwight duel for Angela’s affection in the Dunder Mifflin parking lot. Jenna and Angela share new behind-the-scenes stories, read fan letters, and include special insights from writer Jen Salata, director Dean Holland, producer Randy Cordray, and writer Ryan Coe. The tone is warm, nerdy, and full of giggles—the ultimate rewatch experience for diehard Office fans.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why “The Duel” is a Favorite

• Both hosts express how much they love this episode—especially the absurdity of Andy and Dwight fighting in a parking lot and the Michael-David Wallace subplot.
• Jenna: “This might be one of my all time favorite episodes of The Office. I know I say that so often. I also just really happen to like season five.” (02:02)

2. Fan Favorite Moments

• Melissa K.’s fan letter highlights Michael’s infamous, rambling “philosophy” to David Wallace.

  • Quote: “Don’t ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone for any reason. Ever. No matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you’ve been. Ever. For any reason whatsoever.” (Superfan cut, ~03:37)
  • Revealed Steve Carell improvised much of this (see Notable Quotes).

• Angela B. uses the scene to teach her college writing students about clarity and purpose in argument structure. (04:25)

3. Deep Dive into Dueling HISTORY

• Follow-up letters from fans (Laura H., Nicole C.) share real-life legal remnants of anti-dueling oaths for attorneys and the military.
• Jenna and Angela discuss the origins, rules, and historical anecdotes of dueling (Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Code Duello).
  • Jenna’s research: dueling rules, how “seconds” worked, famous American duels.
  • Lots of laughter and asides about Outlander and Hamilton (15:25–22:12).

4. Behind the Script & Directing

• Writer Jen Salata shares that the entire episode was written from a single sentence: “Andy runs over Dwight and his Prius, keeping it under five miles an hour so Dwight doesn’t hear him coming.” That was all she received before outlining the whole script. (10:17)
• Director Dean Holland:
  • This was his directorial debut for TV after working as an editor. He was so nervous, he threw up before the first day (11:34).
  • The script changed very little from table read to shoot, which is rare.
  • Producer Randy Cordray maneuvered the scheduling so Dean could direct this specific episode. (13:03)

5. The Cold Open: Radar Gun

• Inspired by writer Aaron Shure’s real-life experience with a Warner Bros. lot speed radar: writers would run to see how fast they could go.

• The cast filmed this in 90+ degree weather, right after lunch—guys sweating in suits, women in lighter clothing.

• After filming, the radar was left on the production lot; a writing staff competition ensued, leading to writer Ryan Coe spectacularly injuring himself trying to “win” at the speed challenge (31:53–36:46).

  Ryan Coe (Re: His accident):
  “I have this memory like it was yesterday… you’re running fast and there’s no ground beneath your feet... my corduroys totally shredded… I went to my cousin’s wedding like an hour afterward.” (34:01–35:51)

6. Deleted/Extended Scenes & Office Lore

• There are numerous hilarious deleted scenes, especially involving Andy’s RSVPs, Angela’s furious talking head, and Phyllis’ spot-on summary of the love triangle aftermath (40:14, 52:34).
• A deleted tag features Pam and Jim giving Angela a ride home, with a dozen cats in her window—accompanied by a casting sheet of cat headshots. (76:13–77:28)

7. Production Trivia & “Movie Magic”

• The parking lot duel sequence was filmed over multiple days and from three locations:
  • Outdoor shots (parking lot with Ed Helms and Rainn Wilson),
  • Real-time reactions filmed from Paul Lieberstein’s upstairs window,
  • Conference room reactions shot separately.
• Matching the hedges’ shadows required a “fakie shadow” with 20x20 bounce cards (71:18).
• Dwight’s “bike chain” was a custom-made rubber prop; impact sounds added in post.
• The actual impact was performed by Ed Helms and Rainn Wilson, not stunt doubles, at very low speed (68:00–68:15).

8. Iconic Scene Analysis

• The duel isn’t just physical: it’s loaded with emotion and classic Office cringe-comedy.

• Pam’s (cut for time) breakout scene counseling Angela on whom she really wants—a rare moment of emotional depth for the characters.

• Jen Salata praises Angela Kinsey’s performance as crucial for grounding the episode’s absurd premise of a love duel.

  Jenna (quoting Jen): “We so believed that your character would accept the results of a duel that it grounds the whole episode.” (61:23)

• Angela shares she played the character as secretly hoping Dwight would win, not Andy (62:08–63:00).

9. Memorable Fashion & Props Easter Eggs

• Pam wears trendy dark nail polish (“Metro Chic” gray) against show protocol (38:10).
• Jenna accidentally wears the same vest as “Meredith” to a press event (49:04).

10. Finale & Aftermath

• Both Andy and Dwight feel betrayed and heartbroken after the duel.
• Jim’s deadpan talking head, with the chaos heard off-screen, was improvised on the shooting day for comedic release (72:31).
• A “green screen” Michael-in-NY talking head was necessary due to schedule constraints and technical camera limitations (78:01–80:13).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Michael’s Philosophy Improv:

  “Don’t ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone for any reason. Ever. No matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you’ve been, ever, for any reason whatsoever.”
  — Steve Carell as Michael, improvised (03:37)

• Angela’s Furious Deleted Talking Head:

  “…Sometimes there’s just a hard working petite woman trying to make a conscientious decision about the rest of her life. Too boring? Did I lose you here? Is this what you want?” — Angela Kinsey (42:00)
  [Deleted scene]

• Ryan Coe’s Speed Gun Disaster, as told by Ryan:

  “You’re running fast and then there’s no ground beneath your feet…and my corduroys totally shredded…they wrapped [me] all around my arms and legs…stood in the shower for like an hour, just unwrapping my mummified arms and sort of yelling in pain.” (34:01–35:51)

• On Dueling Rules via Jenna:

  “In 1777, a group of Irishmen codified the dueling practices…[the] Code Duello. It consisted of 26 very specific rules…” (15:25–15:51)

• Angela and “formal chrysanthemums”:

  “I couldn’t say it. Formal chrysanthemums. …But try saying it quickly while you’re throwing it away, like you have no problem saying it.” — Angela Kinsey (51:41)

• Stanley (deleted):

  “Andy, do you fully understand that the prize is Angela? So help me God, I do.” (57:48)

• Rainn Wilson on the Duel Scene:

  “It really is classic old, old comedy…two idiots going at it over absurd and in this case, love and a Prius. …The hedge had a lot of give in it, so you could really pretend like you were pinned…but it was just a big mass of vines, and it was actually very soft and comfortable.” (68:51–69:57)

---

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Fan Letters & Michael’s Philosophy
  02:32 – 05:14
• Dueling History & Stories
  14:34 – 23:02
• Writing & Directing “The Duel”
  10:17 – 13:27
• Cold Open Radar Gun & Writer Injury
  25:06 – 36:46
• Deleted Scenes Discussion
  40:14 – 43:27, 52:34, 75:29–77:28
• Pam’s Dark Nail Polish & Fashion
  38:10 – 39:00, 49:04
• Parking Lot Duel Analysis
  63:09 – 68:25
• Rainn Wilson’s Voice Memo
  68:51 – 69:57
• Shadow Matching & Prop Secrets
  71:16 – 72:16
• Wrap-up & Next Week Teaser
  80:24 – 81:00

---

Conclusion

This episode of Office Ladies is a bountiful mix of Office lore, personal anecdotes, deleted gems, and lived-in nostalgia. “The Duel” is revealed to be more than just a goofy fight between coworkers—it’s a showcase of sharp writing, comedic improvisation, production wizardry, and heartfelt character beats. Through their laughter and storytelling, Jenna and Angela make Scranton (and “The Office”) feel as authentic and absurd as ever.

Don’t miss the bonus deleted scenes and cat headshots on @officeladies social!

---

Next week: "Prince Family Paper"
Jenna: “I do not remember the plot of that one…”
Angela: “We’re gonna find out!” (80:44)

---

For more behind-the-scenes photos, deleted scene breakdowns, and to submit your fan questions, visit officeladies.com.

Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

If you've been listening for a while, you'll know how much goes into making this show run smoothly. And if I had to hire someone tomorrow, I'd want someone who understands our workflow, knows the tools we use, and can jump in without missing a beat.

[Jenna Fischer]

And when you need help finding someone who can really make an impact on your team, this is a job for Indeed.

[Angela Kinsey]

Indeed Sponsored Jobs is a boost whenever you need to find quality talent. It helps your job post stand out in search results so you can reach candidates who meet your specific criteria like the right skills, certifications, or location specific. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for Sponsored Jobs

[Jenna Fischer]

and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it

[Angela Kinsey]

deserves@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed Podcast on this podcast.

[Jenna Fischer]

Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply.

[Angela Kinsey]

Need the right hire fast. Then this is a job for Indeed. Sponsored Jobs.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, lady, I did it. I did it. And you were right. I now also own a pair of Archies art support flip flops.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have been wearing them like so faithfully for years. I have the flip flops, I have the slides because, you know, I have high arches and my feet hurt until I started wearing these.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, I am now wearing them constantly.

[Angela Kinsey]

They really make a big difference. And you know, summer's coming, you want to run errands, you want a cute pair of flip flops, you're not going to lose that arch support with Archies, y'. All.

[Jenna Fischer]

I also found out that they were designed by a physical therapist and the goal was to find something that felt great but still looked good. And they have achieved their goal.

[Angela Kinsey]

You can really feel the difference. So take it from us, you guys are going to love them. Shop Archie's Footwear Buy

[Jenna Fischer]

hello everyone and welcome to your second drink of the Duel. This might be one of my all time favorite episodes of the Office. I know I say that so often. I also just really happen to like season five.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's really solid.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, there's just so many great moments in the duel. I love the Andy and Dwight duel over Angela, but there's also all the scenes with Michael and David Wallace in New York. I'm very curious to hear what the fan favorite moment of this episode was.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we got this letter from Melissa K Melissa says, hi, ladies. Absolutely love your show. And one of my absolute favorite scenes from the whole show is at 10 minutes and 53 seconds when Michael is talking about his philosophy to David Wallace and says, don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone for any reason. It goes on and on with this line. I love this line so much. And it completely captures the moment. You're asked a question you don't know the answer to and you have to make it up as you go. Was all of that improvised or was it fully scripted? Thanks, Melissa. Okay, so Melissa, we talked about this in our breakdown, how Steve improvised a lot of this, but we didn't play it. And I pulled a clip from the superfan version because there is an extra joke at the top and it really cracked us up. Let's hear it.

[Jenna Fischer]

My philosophy is basically this.

[Ryan Coe]

I like to sell paper for more than I bought the paper for.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's obviously obvious. But here's the thing, and this is

[Ryan Coe]

something that I live by, and I

[Jenna Fischer]

always have and I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone for any reason, ever.

[Ryan Coe]

No matter what, no matter where or

[Jenna Fischer]

who or who you are with or where you are going or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever.

[Ryan Coe]

Sometimes I'll start a sentence and I

[Jenna Fischer]

don't even know where it's going. I just hope I find it along the way. Like an improv conversation, an improvisation.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, it's something he lives by

[Jenna Fischer]

and always will for any reason.

[Angela Kinsey]

For any reason. So not only was this our fan favorite moment of the episode, we also got a letter that this scene is educational. Listen to this. Angela B. Wrote in and said more of a comment for this episode. I taught English 101 at a university which focused on college writing. Every semester, whenever I did a lesson on needing to have a purpose for writing, I would show the clip from this episode where Michael starts to answer David Wallace's question and later says that he doesn't always where his sentences are going to go. It's a great example about how if you don't know what the point of your argument or statement is, you'll end up with meandering thoughts.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's so wonderful.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey, you know what? Just get it down on paper. You'll find it. Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Angela, you might remember that I got really into the subject of dueling when we did this episode. Yes, I did a little deep dive on the rules of dueling. Well, we got some mail from folks that took my dive even deeper. And I'm going to read two letters that really tickled me. The first is from Laura H. Who said hi, I really enjoyed the dual podcast episode. To add to your discussion of dueling, I wanted you to know that as an attorney in Kentucky, I had to be sworn in by the state Supreme Court. As part of the swearing in process, attorneys have to solemnly swear, quote unquote, that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this state, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this state, nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as a second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending.

[Angela Kinsey]

My goodness.

[Jenna Fischer]

Laura said the discussion regarding dueling is nearly half of the entire oath.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's bonkers.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was really funny to say that during the ceremony. And then Nicole C. Wrote in to say, I enjoyed hearing your history of dueling and wanted to let you know something else. I am a lawyer in the military, a jag. And the military has its own set of rules called the Uniform Code of Military justice, or UCMJ. There is an article in the UCMJ, Article 114, that makes it illegal for military members to duel, to promote a duel, to not take action in stopping a duel, or to fail to report a duel. So no dueling again. But then Nicole goes on to say that when we prepare to court martial someone, they have models of the argument that they make. And Nicole said if we were going to court martial Andy for dueling, here is how that would be argued. Quote in that Andy Bernard did, at or near the Scranton Business park on or about this date, fight a duel with Dwight Schrute using as a weapon, therefore a Toyota Prius. But Nicole says there could also be a court martial for Angela for promoting a duel. And it would sound like this in that Angela Martin did, at or near the Scranton Business park honor about this date, promote a duel between Dwight Schrute and Andy Bernard by telling Andy he would be a CO if he failed to challenge Dwight to a duel.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm.

[Jenna Fischer]

So two sets of charges, I guess. Though maybe Dwight should be charged as well. He did participate.

[Angela Kinsey]

I found that all fascinating. I mean, people had a lot of thoughts on dueling. Dueling was like a big deal.

[Jenna Fischer]

Big deal. Well, listen everyone, thank you for tuning in. Thank you for writing in. Please write us your fan favorite moments over in our second drinks [e-mail] and

[Angela Kinsey]

now please enjoy the duelling. But don't do a duel.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we've got really great tidbits in this one too from Jen Salata, director Dean Holland, and producer Randy Cordray. So go give it a listen.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week we will break down an episode of the Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office ladies, lady. It's the duel.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, two men are gonna fight over me today. Me, AKA Angela Martin.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have to say, like Andy's Prius, this episode sneaked up on me, but in a great way. Oh my gosh. Hidden gem.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so good. It's one of my favorite episodes. I loved watching it, I loved filming it, and I'm excited to talk about it today.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, it is Season 5, Episode 12, written by Jen Salata and directed by Dean Holland. Here's your summary. Michael takes it upon himself to expose Angela and Dwight's affair to Andy. The two men then challenge one another to a duel in the parking lot. Meanwhile, Michael is summoned to corporate to speak with David Wallace. He thinks it's going to be bad news, but he gets some unexpected praise.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, those scenes. We'll get to it, but man, those are good too fast.

[Jenna Fischer]

Fact number one, this episode was written by the always amazing Jen Salata.

[Angela Kinsey]

Applause for Jen.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, Jen.

[Angela Kinsey]

My goodness, she has so many good lines in this.

[Jenna Fischer]

I reached out to Jen and she sent in an audio clip explaining the inspiration behind this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's hear it.

[Jenna Fischer]

My biggest memory about writing the duel

[Angela Kinsey]

was how little I had when I

[Jenna Fischer]

was sent off to write the script.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was mid season five and it

[Jenna Fischer]

was a really busy patch for the writers, for all of us.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I remember this episode had to

[Jenna Fischer]

be written really, really quickly. And I knew it was about Andy finding out about Angela and Dwight's affair, but where we'd usually spend time as a group fleshing out the story. I went off on the script with a sentence.

[Angela Kinsey]

Andy runs over Dwight and his Prius,

[Jenna Fischer]

keeping it under five miles an hour so Dwight doesn't hear him coming. I mean, it was a good sentence, but there was a lot to fill in. That was it. She had a sentence and she crafted this amazing story. Yes. Why Andy was gonna run over Dwight slowly with a Prius. She didn't know. She just knew that was gonna happen in the episode. And this is what she came up with.

[Angela Kinsey]

She had to build to that moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because usually they would get whole outlines. They would have an A plot, a B plot, all of it. No. Amazing. Jen Salata again, big applause.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jen. Amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Fast fact number two. This episode was directed by Dean Holland. Dean was our other editor alongside Dave Rogers. We love Dean.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, we love Dean. And he knew the show so well. Much like Dave, they knew every moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. Dean told me that he had directed something for mtv, but that this was his first time directing an episode of television. He was so nervous that he threw up in the bathroom at crew call.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aw.

[Jenna Fischer]

When he texted me that, I was like, are you joking? He said, no, I'm being serious. I vomited in the bathroom.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aw.

[Jenna Fischer]

He said that it was really daunting because he had come from editing and he hadn't spent a lot of time on set. You know, editor's life is very isolating. They're just in their editing room, and while we would pop over and say hello, it's very different than how a set works. And he said he felt a little bit like a stranger in a strange land. Those were his words. But he also said he'd consulted a little bit with Paul Feig. But more than anything, he did a ton of prep work for this episode. He said he knew the script inside and out. And listen to this. He said it changed very little from our table read. So that was good because he had been prepping and prepping on that table read draft, and a lot of times, you know, after the table read, they'll come back and whole scenes are gone and new plots. But no.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

He said he was really happy that not a lot changed. But I think again, Jen Salata.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Clearly nailed this one from the beginning.

[Angela Kinsey]

She nailed it.

[Jenna Fischer]

So here's a little secret that Randy Cordray told me. Angela, you know, he's our line producer, and he's in charge of setting the schedule for the directors.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So he must have known when Dean

[Jenna Fischer]

was directing, he manipulated the schedule so that Dean would get this episode, because when he read it, he thought Dean would be perfect to direct it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh, Randy, look at you working it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. He said he really wanted Dean to get this one for his directorial debut. I mean, what a gift.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow. Well, this was a really big episode, you know, for the whole love triangle. The Dwight, Andy, Angela was all coming to a head. And I was nervous, actually, about this episode. I just knew that I wanted to play these moments. Right. And it was a tricky kind of scenario, Jenna, because, like, Angela is worried about both of them and feeling Guilt. But also, I don't know. Is she turned on? I don't know. There's a lot happening. And I felt very safe knowing Dean was directing me this week because, like, we knew him. You know what I mean? Yes. And I could go up to him and be like, dean, did I do that right? What do you think? Should I try something else? So I felt very happy to have Dean there for the duel.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, shortly after this, he went over to do Parks and Rec. He was the editor over there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

He directed a bunch of episodes there. But then years later, I got to be reunited with him because he was the executive producer and director of my show over at abc. Splitting up together.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And then I got to come and do a guest spot on your show, and I got to see Dean and our sound department. It was like a mini office reunion.

[Jenna Fischer]

I loved that day.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was a fun day.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was. All right, Fast. Fact number three, the history of dueling.

[Angela Kinsey]

What? What? Oh, no. What is your search history on your computer? Oh, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

First of all, I would just like to say I am not a historian. I'm just a lady with Google.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're just a delightful lady that loves to Google.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. But I did read about 4 to 5 what seemed like reputable websites on the subject of dueling.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

And here is what I have pulled together.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dueling seems to have originated in medieval Europe. Nobles would defend their honor in man to man battles.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, listen, if you watch Outlander, you know that's true.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't.

[Angela Kinsey]

Come on.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I.

[Angela Kinsey]

Come on, Sassenak. Come on.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, in 1777, a group of Irishmen codified the dueling practices. They wrote a document of rules, and listen to what they called it. They called it Code Duello. Code Duello.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm pretty sure that's a type of dessert you can get. I'll have the Code Duelo. Thanks. I love the lemon flavor.

[Jenna Fischer]

It consisted of 26 very specific rules outlining all aspects of the duel, including the time of day during which challenges could be received, the number of shots or wounds required in order to win.

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel like Dwight would have known these 26 rules of dueling because he had the 40 rules all shrut boys have to learn before they're five. He loves rules. I feel like Dwight knows about these rules. Dueling rules.

[Jenna Fischer]

He must, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

He suggested the duel.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I'm sure he knew. I'm sure that some of these rules have made their way into the shrut life.

[Angela Kinsey]

Into the shrut. 40 rules.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. The first Recorded duel in America took place in 1621 in the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then America created their own set of dueling rules.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

They were written by South Carolina governor John Wilson in 1838. So in a typical American duel, each party has to act through a second. I know this from the musical Hamilton, everyone.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, like, you have your partner that goes with you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. You have your buddy. That's right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And don't you get to bring, like, a medicine, like a doctor? Oh, that's an Outlander. Never mind.

[Jenna Fischer]

That wasn't true.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jamie would bring Sassenak with him. Okay, never mind. Go.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know about that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay?

[Jenna Fischer]

I only read four to five websites.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

If we have a historian, perhaps they would know.

[Angela Kinsey]

You should watch Outlander, but don't watch it with your children around.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, so listen. If a man felt like his honor had been insulted, he would tell his second to challenge the offender to a duel. You do not do it yourself. You send your second. The main duty of the second is to try to create a reconciliation to avoid violence.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, so that person's like the mediator.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I mean, they're literally doing what all therapists tell us not to do, which is to triangulate communication in order to, you know, solve conflicts. But whatever. This is dueling.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm the second in my family. I'm often the person sent in to smooth over the other stuff.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think a lot of people have that position in their family. I get it. But if the second goes and said, hey, my guy is offended by you and wants to duel, and the person says, great, we're dueling. The recipient of the duel challenge gets to pick the weapons and the time and the place of the duel. So, for example, James Shields, an Illinois attorney general, challenged future president Abraham Lincoln to a duel.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lincoln accepted the duel, and he chose the broadsword as their weapon. James Shields was like, what the f. That's insane. Never mind. Forget it. And he called off the duel. So, like, bold move by Lincoln. Lincoln was like, I'll show up, and I'm bringing my sword. Sword to the duel. Do you want it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Lincoln was like, I'm tall and I'm a swordsman.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. James Shields was like, never mind. You know what? I'm good.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know what? I thought about it, and I'm okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's one. This one really got me. I guess Andrew Jackson was very famous for dueling lots of duels. This guy. Experts placed his number of duels, maybe as many as 100. A hundred?

[Angela Kinsey]

Was Andrew just pissing everyone off? He was just pissing everyone off. Everyone wanted to fight him.

[Jenna Fischer]

His most famous duel was with Charles Dickinson. Not to be confused with Charles Dickens, the writer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I was gonna say. Did you see my look on my face? I was like, wait, wait, what?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, no, Charles Dickinson, he was a horse breeder, and I guess these two guys hated each other. Dickinson accused Jackson of cheating on a horse bet, and he challenged Jackson to a duel. Jackson was like, I'll be there. The weapon is pistols. But here's the thing. Dickinson was, like, known to be one of the best shots in the nation. So I don't know why Andrew Jackson picked pistols, but he did. I think maybe it was just, I don't know, some swagger or something. Right. So they show up, they duel.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dickinson got off the first shot. It hit Andrew Jackson in the chest. He's bleeding from the chest. Okay. All accounts are that he, like, held one hand to the wound, lifted his pistol, fired at Dickinson. His pistol misfired. It didn't shoot.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

So Andrew Jackson re cocked his pistol, fired again, and killed Dickinson. This was very controversial, Angela. In the rules of dueling, you only get to fire once.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's what I was going to say. Aren't you one and done? And I know nothing about dueling, but I was pretty sure that's the case. Thank you, Hamilton. That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I don't know. Andrew Jackson lived. He got away with it and was later elected President of the United States.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a question.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

If you're Charles Dickinson. Yep. You see Andrew Jackson pointing his gun at you to fire? Do you run a zigzag? Can you step out of the way? Or do you just have to stand there, fingers crossed it doesn't hit you. Is there no movement allowed? Can I not jump around?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know. I don't know, because I'm not going

[Angela Kinsey]

to stand in one place if you're pointing a pistol at me. I'm going to get moving.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I think you're not allowed, Ange.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

The last duel of record in the United states was in 1859.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, here's who it involved. Was it more white men shooting at each other?

[Jenna Fischer]

It sure was, lady. Not only that, it was a United States senator and a retired chief justice of the California Supreme Court. Oh, way to go, guys. No one died in this duel because listen to this madness. One guy's gun jammed, okay? And then the other guy fired his gun, but it hit the other guy in his gold pocket watch and they called a truce.

[Angela Kinsey]

There you go.

[Jenna Fischer]

That was the last duel in America.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, now, if Andrew Jackson was there, he would have unjammed his gun and shot at you again, right? Yeah. I would like to say I don't know who Andrew Jackson second was, but I think they did a real shitty job.

[Jenna Fischer]

What about Dickinson's second? Dickinson second tried to make a case that, you know, Andrew Jackson I think should be tried for murder, but no one wanted to hear about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

That was very interesting. I liked all your dual trivia.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you. I enjoyed researching my dual trivia.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, there is just a part of me that would do a history podcast with you, but we get everything slightly wrong.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we're already doing that. I'm sure there are at least 12 things I did wrong in this fast. Fact number three. You know what? It's like our version of drunk history. But we're not drunk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're just well meaning ladies who Google and tell you history.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, should we take a break?

[Jenna Fischer]

I think we should. There's a lot to say about this episode and I can't wait.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right.

[Jenna Fischer]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because we love Squarespace, we have been

[Jenna Fischer]

tooling around with OfficeLadies.com. if you haven't been to our website in a little while, will you please go and see the new stuff we have? We have organization.

[Angela Kinsey]

So some of you guys were like, we want the episodes in folders. Season one, season two, season three, not just chronologically.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know we did that thanks to Squarespace.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

They have cutting edge design tools anyone can use.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm. Are you ready for this? Squarespace also makes it easy to showcase your expertise and engage clients with video content.

[Jenna Fischer]

And, you know, to get started, you need a domain. Squarespace Domains makes it easy to find the best name for your business at one fair, all inclusive price. No hidden fees or add ons required.

[Angela Kinsey]

So go to squarespace.com officeladies for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code officeladies to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're a pro at running your life,

[Ryan Coe]

at committing to your workout, at showing up every day. At Bombas, we're pros too. Pros at making socks.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our sport assortment has specialized socks for

[Angela Kinsey]

whatever sport you're committed to running, hiking,

[Jenna Fischer]

golf, Pilates, and so much more. Made with sweat, wicking yarns, blister fighting

[Angela Kinsey]

details and targeted arch support, Bombas sport

[Jenna Fischer]

is pro Level socks from the Pros of Socks.

[Angela Kinsey]

For another pro, you go to bombas.com

[Ryan Coe]

audio and use code audio for 20%

[Jenna Fischer]

off your first purchase.

[Ryan Coe]

That's bombas.com and use code audio.

[Jenna Fischer]

This episode opens with an amazing cold open. It was so much fun to shoot. Yeah, I loved watching it again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Me too.

[Jenna Fischer]

The phone rings. Pam answers the phone. Someone for Michael, But Michael's not there. Where is Michael? Oh, Michael is down on the street. He's running. He's screaming. There is a speed radar sign, and he keeps running past it, trying to see how fast he can go. That's what Michael's doing this morning.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's what Michael's doing. And we're all wondering why. Well, Pam shares that Angela has apparently called 911 several times to report cars going too fast outside on the road. And so the police came and put up this sort of like that radar screen. Right. That tells you your speed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Well, I guess, though, this was a really hard scene to shoot.

[Angela Kinsey]

Really?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Dean told me that we had to shoot this in two different places. So anything that you see out the window of Michael running, we had to shoot that from Paul Lieberstein's office.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because that was the window that looked outside onto our parking lot and onto our street. But of course, everything else that was indoors we had to shoot inside Dunder Mifflin. And by the way, this is gonna come up again later.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So Dean told me that for that opening moment where Pam is on the phone, and then the camera pulls back into Michael's empty office, and then it whips over to the wind, and you see Michael running. Yeah, he had to use one of those whip cuts. So he shot Pam pull back into Michael's office, and then he whipped to a window that just had, like, a scrim behind it. Right. Because that's what Michael's office really has.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Yeah. On our set, there's nothing behind his window.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Then he went up to Paul Lieberstein's office. He did another whip, and then had Steve run by outside. And he did that thing where he cut in the whip and put it together.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's movie magic, guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

Movie magic.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now I guess everyone has decided they want to know how fast they can run.

[Jenna Fischer]

It feels like Michael has forced us all outside to run past the sign. Dwight is very enthusiastic. He's happy to run past it. He runs past, and he gets a speed of 13 miles per hour. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Jenna, do you notice how we're all just like. We're so cold and we're like shivering, but truly, the guys are like sweating their butts off.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I. I went to. Because I'm just an old lady who loves to know what the weather was. I've clearly become my parents because at my parents house the TV is always on and it's always on the weather channel. If you need to know what the weather is anywhere, just call my mom. She'll tell you. So I dug into my digital clutter and found out. We shot this episode the week of October 13th in 2008 and the average temperature was in the 90s for this week.

[Jenna Fischer]

Randy told me that, yeah, not only was it over 90 degrees that day, but we had to schedule this scene to shoot right after lunch.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, gross. So we all had these full bellies and like the sun was right directly over us.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. But he said luckily it only took a couple of hours to shoot.

[Angela Kinsey]

A couple of hours. I know. Lucky for us. Oh my. I always felt bad. This is the one moment I felt bad for the guys because we froze our butts off on the stage. The ladies did. We were always in less clothing. But then when we were in these parking lot scenes and they're in full suits and they are sweating their butts

[Jenna Fischer]

off and running with full stomachs of food.

[Ryan Coe]

Ugh.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have to imagine we were pretty comfortable out there in that 90 degree parking lot.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was probably fine.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were great.

[Angela Kinsey]

So it is hot and they're running past this radar gun. You know, Dwight scored a 13 and Michael wants to beat it. And so he starts running again and a car goes by and all of a sudden Michael clocks 31 and he's like, yes. And everyone kind of calls BS on that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Well, we got a lot of questions about how did we technically pull this off. Right. With these speed numbers. Randy shared with us that the machine just worked. It was actually clocking people's real running speeds and the real car speed. But then he shared with us the reason we did this cold open was inspired by one of our writers. Real life experience.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Aaron Shure. You guys, Aaron Shur is like always coming up with these great cold opens. And I talked with him. He is so hilarious to me, Jenna, because he's like, I guess my real life is just weird enough that it translates into a great cold open. Prior to working on the Office, Aaron had been working on the New Adventures of Old Christine. It was a show on cbs.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. With Julia Louis Dreyfus.

[Angela Kinsey]

Exactly. They filmed on the Warner brothers lot. And he said on the Warner Brothers lot there was this radar gun. And he was walking back from lunch from the commissary with some of the other writers. And as he walked past the radar gun, it said zero. So he was like, oh, yeah. So he set his lunch down, backed up, and he ran as fast as he could by it. Surprisingly, it clocked 20 miles per hour. That's his memory. That is his memory. He said other writers were like, wait, I want to try this. They backed up, and they started running past it as well. And he said it was a very sweaty writer's room that afternoon.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is incredible.

[Angela Kinsey]

So he told this story when he came to the office, and they were like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is something Dwight and Michael would do for sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

After we were done filming this, they moved that speed meter onto the parking lot near catering, and it sat there for the whole week of production. Well, I guess it was too tempting to ignore.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

Randy said that one day during lunch, a bunch of the writers went down and they started sprinting past it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Here we go again.

[Jenna Fischer]

But then I guess there was an accident. Lady.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

Remember our writer, Ryan Coe?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I don't remember an accident.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, Randy shared that Ryan ran past the speed meter, and it didn't go well.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I reached out to Ryan to get the story, and, lady, I did not tell you this because I think you need to hear it from him directly. Oh, gosh. When he emailed me, I literally shouted, oh, no. As I was reading his email. He's calling in lady to tell us this story.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. Ryan.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, here he is. So, Ryan, you were a member of the writing staff in season five. You wrote business ethics. You wrote heavy competition, but the reason you're calling is because you have a story to tell.

[Ryan Coe]

Yeah, I guess so. So the cold open of this episode is Michael and Dwight running out of your speed is like one of those signs that gets you to slow down on streets.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, right, right. We had spoke to Aaron Scher about this, so we remember it well. And we did not know you were also part of the speed racing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. So I should say Randy Cordray said that after we finished shooting this scene, he put the speed tracker in the parking lot, and a bunch of people, writers and crew, all decided to go down and do this thing where you run past it. And you were one of the people who wanted to run past it.

[Ryan Coe]

Absolutely.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Ryan Coe]

I was like a staff writer in season four and still felt insecure about being there in season five. And this was my chance to prove everyone that I was at least the fastest.

[Angela Kinsey]

You were the fastest writer. This was your moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, but you ran track in high school, right?

[Ryan Coe]

I was sixth in New England in the hundred in sort of our very small school division.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God, Ryan. Sixth in all of New England in

[Ryan Coe]

the very small schools. But yes. So I was like, I'm. I'm gonna beat stupid. The stupid old writers.

[Jenna Fischer]

So tell us what happened.

[Ryan Coe]

I rewatched the Cold Open this morning, and so like both Steve and rain ran like 12 and 13 miles an hour.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Coe]

And then a couple, a couple writers ran and they all got like 12 miles an hour. And then I was like, oh, I can beat that. So I had on corduroys and like Chuck Taylor's.

[Angela Kinsey]

You, you were just in your work clothes. You weren't like dressed to run. You were just in what you wore to work that day.

[Ryan Coe]

Well, Randy just poked his head up and said, like, who wants to run at a speedometer? And I was like, yeah. So yeah, I like really laced. I mean, they're. They're sort of loose fitting chucks and they're sort of like a slip on shoe. Anyway, I laced them up really tight and then I started running. And I have this memory, like it was yesterday of, I don't know if you ever had this experience where you're running fast and then there's no ground beneath your feet and you're just sort of windmilling your feet with no ground underneath it. And then I very clearly remember seeing. Well, not clearly because I don't remember exactly, but it was like 17 or 18 miles an hour before I like sort of flew into the air, which preference is like getting thrown out of a golf cart, which is not too bad. And then so like my, my corduroys totally shredded. Shredded off my legs. So I landed on my elbows and forearms. And Dan Gore, who was one of the people watching, said, you could tell I was really hurt because I immediately popped off the ground and said, like, I'm fine, I'm fine. This is what people do when they really hurt.

[Jenna Fischer]

But you were pretty hurt. Like, the medic did have to come over, right?

[Ryan Coe]

I did get really mummified. I had to go to my cousin's wedding like an hour afterwards.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no.

[Ryan Coe]

They used, you know, like that, that gauze. Not even like bandage, but you know, that gauze that you can see through.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right.

[Ryan Coe]

And they wrapped it all around my arms and legs, which were pretty skinned. And then I got on the plane and then when I arrived in Portland, I went into the drugstore and Bought a ton of, like, nonstick gauze and stuff. And then I had seen that all the scabs had formed, like, in the bandage. Anyway. That's gross. So I stood in the shower for, like, an hour, just unwrapping my mummified arms and sort of yelling in pain.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan Coe]

Right after I fell, I remember Randy immediately was like, all right, let's put this away. No one else. No one else. You know, they didn't want another idiot filing a lawsuit against the office. Does it. I hurt myself. I still have scars on all four of my limbs.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ryan Coe]

Sort of a decent story, but you won.

[Angela Kinsey]

You won. You got the fastest speed, so there's that.

[Ryan Coe]

I don't think anyone would call me the winner, but sure, I do believe sort of I will definitely vouch for the fact that I got the fastest speed. I mean, I help by disqualifying everyone by getting it removed. Maybe that was my strategy. Get a high speed and then mangle myself so they get rid of the speedometer.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ryan, thank you for coming on Office.

[Ryan Coe]

You're welcome.

[Jenna Fischer]

And telling your story. We're gonna hit you up for some trivia about heavy competition when we get to it, if you don't mind.

[Ryan Coe]

Okay, sounds great.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, love you, Ryan.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm so happy talking to you. Take care.

[Ryan Coe]

Okay, thanks.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bye.

[Jenna Fischer]

Bye.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. This is like. It's art imitating life, Life imitating art and art back to life. Is that it? This is crazy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do you remember early in the podcast when you said, life intimidating art?

[Angela Kinsey]

I do, Jenna. I do.

[Jenna Fischer]

It feels like life said to Ryan Coe, I'm gonna intimidate you by throwing you to the asphalt.

[Angela Kinsey]

Life is intimidating art.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think so. Life threw Ryan to the asphalt in a very intimidating way based on his art.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, man. Well, that is the cold open, you guys, and we haven't even gotten to the episode yet.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's get into it because this is a big day. It's a big day for Michael because David Wallace wants to meet him and talk to him about big picture stuff. Michael doesn't really know what that means. It's probably bad.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's also a big day because Pam makes an announcement. New year, new candy, hot tamales. But did you notice at 1 minute, 50 seconds that Pam has dark nail polish?

[Jenna Fischer]

I did not.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. I took a picture to show you, and then I did a weird mini dive. All right, I want you to see. I'll put this in stories, but you gotta see. Look at your nails.

[Jenna Fischer]

How did I Get away with that. Why did they let me do that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because I will just say that if I ever came in with a nail polish that wasn't a natural looking nail polish, they would make me take it off in the trailer in the morning.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know how this fell through the cracks, but I remember this nail polish on you. Is this so weird?

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

I looked up on the Internet and it said in the fall of 2008, one of the big trends in nail polish was gray nail polish. And in fact, CollegeCandy.com said the OPI Sephora had a very popular color called Metro Chic, which was a matte purplish gray.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I think we all know, if anything, I'm on trend.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey, you know the fashions.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do. I really do.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think you got some Metro Chic and put it on your nails for the weekend.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have no doubt. I love OPI nail polish. I wear it all the time. I am certain that's what it was. I just can't believe I got away with it. You know, they would let Amy Ryan and Melora Hardin as their characters. They could have a darker nail polish, but they wanted Pam to always, like, either have no nail polish or just some clear nail polish. I sneaked it in. I guess maybe I sat on my hands while I got my hair and makeup done that day. Well, listen, Andy's gonna come in, and he's clearly upset about something. He would like to address the elephant in the room. I love how Rainn Wilson as Dwight chose to kind of stand up and get in a power stance. He's ready to fight because, of course, we all think that he knows about this affair that Angela's having with Dwight, but that's not what he says. He says, none of you have RSVP'd to our wedding.

[Angela Kinsey]

How awkward. In the deleted scenes, this scene goes on where he goes to every single person and is like, hey, phyllis, you haven't RSVP'd Jim like. And everyone, like, pretends to be on the phone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, no.

[Angela Kinsey]

You have this hilarious talking head where you're like. You say you've been avoiding him and you can't look him in the eye, so you only look at his nose. So then Andy comes up to you and asks you, and you're just awkwardly looking at his nose, and then he thinks he has something on his nose. It was really funny. The deleted scenes for this episode, I feel like every single one of them should have been in because they were all awesome.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jim says it's been 17 days. It's been 17 days since the Christmas party when Phyllis spilled the beans. Everyone meets in the break room except Andy and Michael says he's gonna tell him. He has to tell him. And of course everyone's like, you can't. It's really Angela's responsibility. Oh, and then I loved the exchange between Oscar and Dwight.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I know. I was anticipating it as you were about to say it. And just the fact that the whole group starts learning where all Angela and Dwight have shagged in the office.

[Jenna Fischer]

We had a fan question from Jess R. Who said, who wrote the moment in the break room when Dwight implies he's been doing it with Angela on Oscar's desk. And was any of that scene improvised? No, none of it was improvised. It was all scripted by Jen Salata. So good.

[Angela Kinsey]

This scene takes us into accounting and Angela's kind of giving it to Kevin that he screwed up again. And then there's some real Kevin sass.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, it's great.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh my gosh. He's like, I didn't realize I was doing something wrong. If I had, I would have admitted it and stopped right away. He really leans in hard on this moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Oscar gives him props. He's like, no, that was really good. You did a great job.

[Angela Kinsey]

Congratulations, Jenna. Immediately after the scene in the script, there's a very angry Angela talking head. And it's pretty amazing because Angela is so furious that she breaks the fourth wall and berates the camera documentary crew and then flashes them some of her shoulder. Really? Yes. Sam, will you play it? It's just so important for you to get your big story, isn't it? To edit everything together to make it look like there's a villain. Well, there's not always a villain. Sometimes there's just a hard working petite woman trying to make a conscientious decision about the rest of her life. Too boring. Did I lose you here? Is this what you want?

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, that was amazing. But I have to say I think it was right to cut it out because I don't know if we've ever had that much direct conversation with the documentary crew before, if we've ever referred so much to what they're doing.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was shocked when I watched it, Jenna. Cause she's like, is that what you want? You're gonna edit this together. You're gonna make a villain. And also, it was a little bit too sophisticated for Angela Martin to understand the of a documentary and how they tell it through narration in these moments. So I think it was the right move to cut it. But I was shocked when I saw it. I had to share.

[Jenna Fischer]

So, Angela, I love this episode because there's just so much tension, and it plays out so slowly over when or whether or not Andy is going to figure out that Angela's having an affair. So he has this exclamation on the phone, and everyone's like, but it's really just about the cake. He's just having an issue with the cake. But this leads to that Dwight talking head. Because Dwight is on guard this whole time. He's, like, constantly leaping out of his chair.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he kind of explains that There are these 40 rules that all shrew boys must learn by the age of five. And one of these rules is like, don't put your back to a man who you've wronged. That's just one of the 40 rules.

[Angela Kinsey]

Don't turn your back on a bear or a dominant turkey during mating season.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, there's a lot of things you shouldn't turn your back on.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then he has this little jingle that he sings.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now, Angela, is it true that Rain improvised that song?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no, that was in the script. That was 100% written. They shared in the DVD commentary that RAINN was singing the jingle a few different ways. And then Dean asked Jen, Jen, how did you hear it when you wrote it? She sort of sang it her way. And they found it in the moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

So they found the melody, but the words were written.

[Angela Kinsey]

The words are totally written. They're in the script. This is, like, fabulous Jen Salata writing. They just improvise the melody.

[Jenna Fischer]

Got it. Well, now Dwight is going to signal Angela to meet him in the hallway. He does this by moving his little bobblehead to the other side of his desk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's going to confront her. He wants her to tell Andy the truth.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Angela has a line, Jenna, that really made me laugh. She's like, this is a terrible idea. One of your worst. And then he's like, just get it over with. And then Angela says, you're expanding on your worst idea. That just really made me laugh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Michael is leaving now, and he asks Andy to walk with him. Yeah, he's gonna do it. He's gonna do it.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's gonna do it. He can't not do it. This is, like, true, Michael. Like, he can't not.

[Jenna Fischer]

The scene is so funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, it's so perfect. You know, I believe Angela originally in the scene, he is supposed to tell Andy before he got in his car.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, it's scripted that he tells him outside of the car.

[Jenna Fischer]

But on the day, they came up with the idea that it would be really funny if Michael was in the car and then he sort of says it through the window as he's driving away. And that is so good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. So in the commentary, Dean said he had the idea in the moment that the scene takes place with Michael in the car. And then Steve sort of built on that and was like, what if Michael really doesn't want to tell him? So it's kind of like as he's pulling away. And then Dean said that Steve really peeled out of the parking lot. They did not add that sound in in post. That's actually the car peeling away.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's amazing. Well, we had a fan question from Maria M. About this scene. She said, is there a production related reason why the vehicles in this episode all appear so dusty and dirty? And when I went back and looked at it, yes, they're all covered in grime.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, they're filthy.

[Jenna Fischer]

I asked Randy Cordray about it and he said yes, Maria. Great eye to detail. All of the cars were purposely dirtied by the scenic painting crew using flour and water. And this was meant to simulate what cars might look like during a typical Scranton winter from just road grime and salt and snow. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

When snow gets dirty looking. Right. And it's on your car.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And that the cars in the parking lot belonged to our crew members. And any crew member who volunteered to park their car in the lot got a free car wash every Friday.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, how about that?

[Jenna Fischer]

So during the week, they'd have to drive around with a grimy car, but on the weekends, you got a fresh, clean car. Well, I think this is a good place to take a break because Andy knows the truth. And when we come back, we'll talk about what he does.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, man, it's a lot. This was some cringy stuff to watch.

[Jenna Fischer]

We'll be right back. Real skin results start with one daily ritual. Meet Daily Microfoliant from Dermalogica. This iconic exfoliating powder activates with water to gently polish away dullness and uneven texture. It leaves skin instantly smoother and more luminous while supporting your skin barrier. Formulated with professional expertise to deliver visible results daily, even on sensitive skin. Discover your healthiest skin today. Visit dermalogica.com and use code smooth at checkout for an exclusive gift with your $65 purchase. All right, we are back. And guys, Meredith KN Something big was gonna happen today. Now, she said that yesterday, but she was Also right yesterday, because her neighbor was murdered.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is her life?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know, but Meredith has the best, like, throwaway lines. It's like her and Creed, like, what the heck is their life?

[Jenna Fischer]

It must have been so fun to write for them.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

At 8 minutes, 42 seconds, we get a really good shot of Meredith in this episode, and she is wearing a sweater vest. Yes, lady. I wore that same sweater vest to a press event with John Krasinski in New York.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I walked on set this week. We were shooting the duel, and I looked at Kate dressed as Meredith, and I thought, oh, my God. Oh, my God, Did I make a terrible mistake? I thought it was fashionable. I wore that same vest over this, like, big, poofy white blouse with big, poofy shoulders. This was the style, what it was, actually. It was a really expensive vest. It was like Betsy Johnson or something.

[Angela Kinsey]

Can we do a side by side of you and Meredith?

[Jenna Fischer]

We must.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna in real life has the same fashion choices as Meredith.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady, look. Here's a picture. Look at it.

[Angela Kinsey]

See?

[Jenna Fischer]

Look at it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God. First of all, you and John look 14 years old. We have to put this photo in Office Lady Stories. You are wearing Meredith's sweater vest, and John looks like he could host Blue's Clues. He's in, like, a stripy polo.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God. You guys look 14 years old.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were doing press at this NBC Experience store, showing off all the new office merchandise.

[Angela Kinsey]

Meredith called. She wants her sweater vest back.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. And, like, I'd already done the event, you know?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you could have heard a pin drop when Andy walked back into that bullpen. And he goes over to Angela and says, we need to talk. And she's like, we can talk right here. And he's like, no, no. Ed played it so real. I was sweating. I was sweating it. Like, I felt it. We went to that conference room, and he shut the door, and we were in there a long time. And Ed broke my heart as Andy when he was like, do you love him? And I was really feeling all of this emotion. And then Angela has to make this plea, this plea to him. Don't give up on us. And Jenna. It was all going great until we got to two words. Formal chrysanthemums. I couldn't say it. Formal chrysanthemums. Formal chrysanthemums. I really had to break it down to be able to say it. But you need to say it like, it's effortless. But I literally was like, Going formal chrysanthemums.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know what, lady? That is not anything having to do with your accent or you. I challenge anyone to say that word. I can't. Chrysanthemums. Chrysanthemum.

[Angela Kinsey]

Say it quickly, guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

And here's formal chrysanthemumth. That was my best effort, by the way.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, literally, Jen Salata had to come in the room and help me break it down. But try saying it quickly while you're, like, throwing it away. Like you have no problem saying it in a speech where you're pleading to save your relationship.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you know what? It wouldn't have worked any other flower. That's the funniest flower. It had to be that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. Well, while this whole Andy and Angela scene is going on in the conference room, there's a flip side to what's happening. It's everyone in the bullpen watching. It was deleted for time. It's so great. And I really feel like Phyllis summed up the whole moment perfectly.

[Ryan Coe]

Phyllis, why is it taking so long?

[Angela Kinsey]

He found out his little angel's been screwing the beet farming weirdo. He's trying to make it make sense in his brain, and then he's going to come out here and kill you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you, Phyllis.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're welcome.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah, she got it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, that made me laugh really hard. I wish it had stayed in.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this takes us to corporate. Andy and Angela are going to stay in the conference room. They're not done. But meanwhile, we cut over to corporate and we see the reason why David Wallace is called Michael in. He says to Michael, Scranton is outperforming the other branches. Everyone else is struggling, and we want to know what are you doing right? What is Michael doing so right?

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, everything in Michael lit up like a Christmas tree. He's like, David Wallace wants advice from me. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then he starts talking.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, Jenna, I have to read it. Can I please read it?

[Jenna Fischer]

Please read it.

[Angela Kinsey]

The minute he said David, here it is. My philosophy is basically this. And this is something that I live by, and I always have and I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone for any reason ever, no matter what. No matter where or who or who you are with or where you are going or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever. What is he saying? What is he saying? I went to the script. This was not scripted. What? There was a different moment. There was the same thing where he sort of started to talk nonsense. I think Steve was also improvising Here, I think he went off what Jen had, and then I think they let Steve do his thing. And now his talking head where he says, sometimes I start a sentence and I don't even know where it's going. I just find it along the way.

[Jenna Fischer]

That was 100% scripted, the improvisation.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, that was all exactly scripted. But this answer to David, I think, was a little bit on the page. And then they just let Steve play.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love it. This little scene between Michael and David Wallace was important story wise because it's really starting to set up the economic struggle slash decline of Dunder Mifflin, which is going to play out in future seasons as branches start closing, as we get bought out by season sabre. Spoiler alerts. I guess you're supposed to say that first.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that's supposed to come first. And also you start to learn that David Wallace might be in a precarious position.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So we made it a comedy moment with Michael suddenly giving advice to David Wallace. But this was also setting up a broader story that we will play out

[Angela Kinsey]

in the DVD commentary. Dean said one of his notes for all of the Michael David scenes in this episode was, no matter what, Michael won't leave the office. No matter what.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that makes sense because he suggests they order some pasta. And then my favorite thing is, like, after that pasta eating scene where Michael is still just going on and on and on, David Wallace kind of gets up. And then Michael keeps eating his pasta and David is like, no, no, yes, go. I guess just finish, Finish your meal there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And he like, pats him on the shoulder, shuts the door, and sits back down.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, when we get back to the office, Angela and Andy are still in the conference room. She needs him to know that her and Dwight did not do anything fancy sexually.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Dwight tells Michael something very differently about their sex life earlier.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh, I can't believe we didn't bring that up. That made me laugh so hard, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Michael is all asking Dwight, like, if she crazy in bed, crazy in the sack, is she crazy? And Dwight's like, yes. And then Michael is like, how? How is she crazy? And Jim is like, she's just standing there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Jim is like, oh, God, no, no. And then Dwight says, eager and flexible lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is that in the script? Was that an improv?

[Angela Kinsey]

It's 100% scripted.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was so good. All of those beats that made me laugh out loud.

[Angela Kinsey]

Some of John's reactions as Jim are improvised, but everything else is scripted.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Angela doesn't tell Andy any Of that stuff. She just says she loves him. And when he leaves the conference room, he tells Dwight, it's over. It's over. And he means over between you and Angela, not me and Angela. He's still gonna marry Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Angela made a big case. She was like, listen, we're at a crossroads here. Let's prove all these people wrong. Dwight makes a big declaration that Bernard will never be her last name. They are going to stay together. He is not going to give up Jenna. This was a much longer scene, and when Dwight says a duel. We'll have a duel over Angela, the winner gets Angela. Stanley can't take it anymore. He's going to call BS and he has this great moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, we're not doing that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hang on, Pam. Andy, do you fully understand that the prize is Angela? So help me God, I do.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Dwight, do you fully understand that

[Angela Kinsey]

the prize is Angela? I do. I say give them both guns, Stanley.

[Jenna Fischer]

Darwin, baby Darwin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Darwin, baby Darwin. I just love that moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Even Pam turns to Angela and is like, you have to stop this. But Angela says, I will respect the results of the duel.

[Angela Kinsey]

So, yeah, I remember us shooting this moment, Jenna, but in my mind, there was more to the scene. I went to the script and there was an alt of this moment where Pam confronts Angela. It didn't make it in. And you have a whole speech, and I called it Preach. Pam, this takes place in the break room. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

You have to put a stop to this. I admit at first I was blaming you for being selfish and dishonest, but then I decided to put myself in your shoes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't ask you to do that.

[Jenna Fischer]

I get it. You're having a hard time choosing between Dwight and Andy for reasons that you must have a. We have to make a decision, Angela. Who would you rather go home to at night? Who would you rather wake up with in the morning? Marriage is a big deal. Angela. Who do you see as the father of your children? Who are you most proud of? Who's most accepting of your quirkiness?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't see how any of that matters now.

[Jenna Fischer]

Why not?

[Angela Kinsey]

Two men are about to fight for my hand. When it's over, I will respect one of them and pity the other. Decision made, Angela. Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, Pam, like, really tried to show up for Angela in this moment. Tried to empathize with her. And what? You know, you guys are hearing it, but if you watch it, if you go to the deleted scenes on the dvd, you see all of this emotion go across my face. I'm clearly torn. And it just really showed something. You don't get to see that much in this. You only see little moments that Angela is really struggling.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Well, Angela, when I was trading messages with Jen Salata about this episode, she was very complimentary of your performance.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

She said that this episode was tricky, and a lot rested on how your character would react to these two men dueling over her. She said she was really worried. Like, how do you convince people that you would accept the results of a duel? It's so crazy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And she said, you know, there was this scene that really shows you stuffing down your real feelings, but she said that you were able to play it so perfectly in just your one line in the bullpen. We so believed that your character would accept the results of a duel that it grounds the whole episode. And she was so grateful for your performance.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. That's so nice. Thank you, Jen. Well, you know, what I thought about Angela is that she really loves Dwight. She really thinks Andy is a better partner for her, like, socially sort of acceptable and all of that. And she's really struggling about what's the right thing to do in her life. And the duel for her is actually a relief because now she doesn't have to decide. To her, this is like an institution that will decide for her and she's off the hook. And I think that's why she was so willing to accept it.

[Jenna Fischer]

We had some people write in wondering, were you secretly rooting for one man over the other? Do you think Angela Martin was secretly rooting for one person?

[Angela Kinsey]

I think she was hoping Dwight would win for her. I just have this feeling that on paper, Andy Bernard is more presentable to her family. Right. And makes more sense to Angela Martin's family, and that they would be more accepting and more willing to embrace Andy Bernard than Dwight Schrute. And so I feel like she could go to her family and be like, well, Dwight bested him in a duel. So, you know, clearly Dwight is the dominant man, and I have no.

[Jenna Fischer]

That your whole family would accept the results of the duel.

[Ryan Coe]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I have to go with that. So, you know, I mean, I know we all thought Andy was the one, but I don't think Angela ever thought Andy was the one. And so I think she thinks her family would accept it too. Is that crazy? But that's what I was thinking.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So she's rooting for Dwight to win this duel because she loves him more and because it would help gain acceptance with her family.

[Angela Kinsey]

Exactly.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this duel is happening it is happening in the parking lot at 4pm Bring the weapon of your choice.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So it's 4O'. Clock. The duel is beginning. Dwight's outside in the parking lot. He's yelling, andy, where are you? You know, he's like, are you a coward? Everyone else is upstairs watching from the conference room. Angela's saying, I can't believe two men are fighting over me. And then Kelly, like, has a dig. She's like, well, I guess when you're old, you run out of options or something like that.

[Jenna Fischer]

I thought that was really funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Oscar doesn't think Andy's gonna show. And they're actually kind of placing bets. And Kevin's like, come on.

[Jenna Fischer]

But then Dwight sees a note on some bushes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

He goes over to read it. What is this? Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

What's this note about?

[Jenna Fischer]

While he's reading it, Andy does show up very slowly, very quietly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

In his Prius.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know, Jenna, Jen had that one sentence that she had to write this whole episode off of. Right. About the duel. This was Paul Lieberstein's idea about the Prius. He said, if you go under five miles an hour, it's totally silent. And so this is the weapon Andy chooses.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. He is going to pin Dwight up against the bushes. He's going to crush him.

[Angela Kinsey]

But really, he's only crushing, like, from his kneecaps down.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, but he's pinned. I mean, Dwight can't move. Dwight can't hit him with his bike chain anymore.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So he starts slamming it on the hood of the car.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're screaming at each other at 18 minutes, 16 seconds. Rain shared on the DVD that during this whole screaming match between the two of them, they improvise for about 40 minutes. Dean said at least 40 minutes. Just insults and banter back and forth at each other. Dean said there was so much good stuff.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ugh. I wish we could see that.

[Angela Kinsey]

The 40 minutes of them yelling at

[Jenna Fischer]

each other, I would watch it. Sure. Actually, they're probably amazing. Well, we got a lot of questions about how did we do this scene? How did we do this stunt? Who was driving, Yada, yada. Well, I talked to Dean and he said this was really complicated because we had to shoot this scene over two different days from three different locations. First, we shot in the parking lot with Rain and Ed. They performed the whole thing. We shot it, and the rest of us were upstairs in Paul's office looking out that window. And the camera could whip up to

[Angela Kinsey]

us in real time.

[Jenna Fischer]

In real time. We watched all of it. Then they moved the cameras up to Paul's office to get really tight shots out of the window onto the action below. And Rain and Ed had to do it all over again just to get a few little shots through the window. But then on a different day, we shot inside the actual Dunder Mifflin conference room. And this time, we had to be careful to not shoot out the window because there was nothing there. It was just a backdrop, and that we were basically looking at nothing. But Dean was shouting out all the action that had happened the day before.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

He said this was the moment when being an editor on the show really helped him. He had kind of cut this whole thing together with a shot list inside his head. And he just kept telling people, trust me, trust me, trust me, trust me.

[Angela Kinsey]

He could see it, right? He could see it.

[Jenna Fischer]

He could see the whole thing. He said he planned all of these whip pan cuts between the window, between us, all of it.

[Angela Kinsey]

And.

[Jenna Fischer]

And when he got in the editing room, because he edited this episode as well, it actually did all come together, and it looked really, really seamless.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you have to think that Randy Cordray was like, I knew it. I knew it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

That Dean's editing was gonna come into play here.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is why Dean has to direct this episode. But he did say it was a little grueling for the actors because we had to play these same moments over and over and over again, more so than we normally do. And we had to make it seem like we were doing it for the first time every time. Now, as for the stunt, Randy told us that Ed actually drove the Prius silently through the parking lot. He said they had stunt doubles standing by for the actual moment of impact. They thought that they would have a stunt driver actually drive into a stunt Dwight.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then after they were kind of squished, they would place Rain into the

[Angela Kinsey]

bushes and Ed into the car.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. But then on the commentary, didn't Rain say they just kind of ended up doing it themselves?

[Angela Kinsey]

Actually, the commentary was Rainn Wilson, Jen Salata, Dean Holland, and Rusty Mahmoud, who was our first assistant director. And they discussed that Ed actually drove into Rain very slowly.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

And that it totally worked. And those takes of those guys actually doing it were their favorite. So those were the ones they used. And they did not use takes with the stunt people.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we also got a fan question from Samantha T. Who wanted to know what was up with the fence. Like, what was on the other side of it? Was it padding? Was it an actual fence? Was the bumper of the car padded. Was rain really being squashed? Well, it was the real bumper of the car. And then rain sent in an audio clip to tell us a little bit about the bushes.

[Ryan Coe]

Oh, I'm so glad you guys are doing the duel. Fantastic. One of my very favorite episodes. And I always loved those episodes where Dwight and Andy got to go head to head. I just loved that, that subplot of that. That tension. And Ed Helms is so funny in this episode. But you know what it reminded me of is in college, we studied clowning and Commedia dell', Arte, and it really is classic old, old comedy, like Back from Commedia dell' Arte and the Greeks and ancient clowning of two idiots going at it over absurd and in this case, love and a Prius. It was so much fun to shoot. I don't remember a lot of specifics about it, but I remember the hedge had a lot of give in it, so you could really pretend like you were pinned, but it was just a big mass of vines, and it was actually very soft and comfortable. And I love that line about the bears in Scranton. It's so fantastic.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I guess rain was quite comfortable being pinned against the bushes. No complaints.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I can tell you about those big, giant hedges. One time, Brian, in a scene as Kevin nudged me, he thought it was a nudge. I went flying into them. I don't know if you remember that. I can't remember what episode, but I can attest to the fact that it's a very deep, dense, very sort of a hedge you could fall into without getting to the other side. Aha. Well, the hedges might have been a good thing for rain, and they were a nice soft place to land, but they actually caused a little bit of a headache for our production. So Rusty Mahmood, our first assistant director, shared on the DVD commentary that we had about six hours a day to film these parking lot scenes. That's what they had allotted for the time. And by the time we got to the parking lot scenes on the first day of filming, those big hedges had cast a shadow over half of the parking lot. If you go and watch Jenna, you'll see. Okay, there's a huge shadow. Well, now guess what? We needed to match that shadow exactly the second day we filmed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, right.

[Angela Kinsey]

So in order to do that, they had to create this fake shadow. We have fakie shadow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Fakie shadow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Fakie shadow. They used giant 20 by 20 bounce cards and positioned them behind the hedges on the street so that the shadow would cast and match each day we filmed in the parking lot.

[Jenna Fischer]

Gosh, those are things you just don't think about.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, but this is the amazing thing about your crew. Someone was like, oh, hold up. That shadow's not gonna match. We've gotta recreate a shadow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, fakie shadow wasn't the only fakie thing we had in this scene. We also had fakie bicycle chain.

[Jenna Fischer]

Fakie bicycle chain.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. Clearly, Rain could not whip around a real bicycle chain. So Phil Shay had a rubber bicycle chain made. And that's what Rain used as Dwight to hit the Prius and wave around. So obviously, a rubber bicycle chain is not going to make the same sound as a real bicycle chain on metal. So all the sounds you hear are put in post. That whopping sound.

[Jenna Fischer]

Except for the car horn.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ed was really blaring the horn. I know. Poor Rain.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. But he was really having fun with it, too, because he'd wait and blare it right when Rain, like, started to talk.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, all of this mayhem is going on, and Jim has a talking head where he's just kind of standing there and you can hear it all in the background.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. So good.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dean told me that they came up with that idea on the day he said that as he and Jen Salata were standing there just listening to these two guys go on, he thought it would be really funny to add that. So he and Jen came up with that, and they positioned John and they just kind of added that in the moment.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so perfect because it's the voice of reason. It's this totally normal, rational person reacting to this moment of chaos. And I feel like it lets the audience take a breath and be like, oh, yeah, this is crazy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, in this argument, Andy ends up revealing that he and Angela have had sex, which is something that Dwight did not know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, yeah. He says, I can't believe she's been sleeping with you this whole time. And she's only slept with me twice.

[Jenna Fischer]

I made a sex tracker.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God, I did. Oh, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's what I'm gonna say. Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

In the Business trip episode, Andy told Oscar he had never had sex with Angela. In the Surplus, Andy says he has seen Angela naked zero times. So we have to imagine that either they've had sex twice since the surplus or they've had sex twice since business trip, but that while having sex, he never saw Angela naked. Which one do you think it is? Fully clothed sex or naked sex recently?

[Angela Kinsey]

You know what? I believe both. I believe that he could possibly have had sex with her, but she wouldn't let him see her naked. Like, she'd have some kind of, like, long gown on. But I also can believe that after Dwight hoodwinked her into this fake wedding, that she was furious and she went and had some revenge sex.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think that's most likely that's when they had their sex.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Andy is going to return to his desk. Dwight returns to his desk.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're both crestfallen. Yeah, I mean, Dwight feels betrayed and Andy feels betrayed.

[Jenna Fischer]

But who won the duel? Angela standing there, she hears Andy make a phone call. He cancels the wedding cake.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's the one that was in the shape of a sailboat.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, that one.

[Angela Kinsey]

That wedding cake. Jen said they did have an alt cake line where he would say it was the one in the shape of the letter C for Cornell.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I was like, for cat.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, but they went with sailboat.

[Jenna Fischer]

Then Angela looks to Dwight. Did he win?

[Angela Kinsey]

He puts his bobblehead in the trash. Jenna, There was a deleted scene that comes after this where Angela goes up to Pam and she's teary eyed, like her voice is wavering. And she says, can you give me a ride home from work today? Because I no longer have a ride home. Yeah. And Pam says yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then her and Jim give Angela a ride home.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God, this car ride. We did shoot this scene. It's in the deleted scenes. Angela just barks directions angrily at Jim and then she starts sobbing in the backseat. And then she's angry again.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I'll never forget shooting this scene, Angela, because, I mean, this was a whole location day for us. You know, we had this location that was your house and we just dropped you off outside. But they had this really funny joke that there would be like a dozen cats in your window staring out the window at you expectantly as we drop you off. And it was so funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was so funny. I remember they, you know, they had to get a house with like, sort of a big front window, like a bay window that all the cats could be in so that we could see them from the street.

[Jenna Fischer]

But then, you guys, as we were trading messages with Randy Cordray about this episode, he sent us the casting sheet of the cats and all their headshots. It's a sheet of, like, cat headshots.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, you guys. And here are the names of the 12 cats that played Angela's cats. Potato, Prada, Echo, Flame, Prophet, Whisper, Milkman, Sushi, Roswell, Harvey, Hannah and Milton.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Roswell looks just like Sunny Cat. He does My cat.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. We have to put that photo in stories. And also, Randy sent us the photo of Angela Martin's house.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. So unfortunately the scene was deleted, but the cats can get their moment of fame.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we got to do a driving scene together.

[Jenna Fischer]

We did. It's very cute because at the end after we drop you off, Pam turns to Jim and she says, you know what, I'll call her later to check up on her. And Jim says, she'll hang up on you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Pam says, I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, that would have been our alt tag. Right. The car ride instead of Jim collecting Dwight's weapons. But also right at the end, Michael had a great talking head.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. He's standing on the streets of New York and he just sort of says, you know, exciting things can happen when you leave Scranton. Just kind of sums up this storyline for him. Well, got a little tidbit from Randy. I didn't notice it the first time I watched it, but in hindsight it was obvious to me, oh yeah, this scene was a cheat. Steve was not in New York. Steve was shot on a green screen and we digitally added the office building scene behind him. Randy said, we hired this New York based cinematographer named Alan Pierce to go out and shoot the exterior of a New York office building with people walking by. Randy said it was this awesome shot, but we ran into a problem with the cameras on our end. So for all you techies out there, we would shoot our show on a Sony 900 digital camera. It was a very early generation digital camcorder. And I guess these cameras had very poor color latitude.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, sure, Jenna, you know color latitude.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know, I know. And when it's not good, it's. It can be tough.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, we know. Oh yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

How many times have I struggled with my color latitude?

[Angela Kinsey]

So many.

[Jenna Fischer]

It does not do well shooting on green screen. And Randy said that's why we did it so infrequently. Now normally we would just find someplace in downtown LA to double for New York, but I noticed on the call sheets that we only had Steve for two and a half days this week. He worked Monday, Tuesday and part of Wednesday. And the whole rest of our shoot was really dedicated to that complicated parking lot. So scene. I asked Randy about it. He said he doesn't know exactly why we chose to go green screen, but he has to imagine that we just simply did not have time to go downtown and get that shot because it was a complicated shoot week.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I didn't catch it on my first watch, but I really did on the second one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Me too.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was like, oh, that's fakie backdrop. There you have it. Fakie building. Fakie shadow. Fakie bicycle chain. Real feelings, guys. That's the duel.

[Jenna Fischer]

That pretty much sums up the duel. All right, well, thank you to everyone who contributed to this episode. Thank you, Ryan Ko, for calling in and giving us the story of your tragic fall.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Thank you, Ryan. And we're gonna be back here next week, guys. We have Prince family paper.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm gonna be honest, I do not remember the plot of that one.

[Angela Kinsey]

Who's Prince? Who are they?

[Jenna Fischer]

We're gonna find out next week.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're gonna find out.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like a real audience member. I don't know what's coming. I'm sure I'll remember after I watch the episode, but I can't wait. Hopefully. I hope so.

[Angela Kinsey]

See you guys. Have a great one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Bye. Thank you for listening to Office Lady's second drink.

[Angela Kinsey]

This episode was initially created in collaboration collaboration with Earwolf.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. Our senior producer is Matt Beagle.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our second Drinks episodes are produced by Molly Nugent.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratt.

[Jenna Fischer]

Spring just slid into your DMs.

[Angela Kinsey]

Grab that boho. Look for that rooftop dinner. Those sandals that can keep up with you. And hang some string lights to give

[Jenna Fischer]

your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross. Work your magic. Capture your favorite summer feeling with Pandora Jewelry. Discover a collection inspired by the sunshine, freedom and moments that make the season unforgettable. From sun kissed metals to personalized pieces ready to be engraved with your summer mantra. Each design moves with you from beach days to golden nights and every memory in between. Shop Pandora Jewelry's new summer collection in store or [e-mail] and let your summer unfold.